The Staffordshire must remain a multi-purpose dog

no schutzhund,absolutely....it's a test,not a sport competition...we just value the sociability of bulldogs(because HE HAS TO BE ABSOLUTELY SOCIABLE), the hardness and the determination to fight an adversity. with this test we absolutely will NOT know if the dog is game or not game,we don't matter. if we would know if they are game(WITH DOGS OR WITH A WILD BOAR OR BADGER )or not we should put them in a pit(OR IN THE WOOD),but we can't for the italian laws,so we use this test that consent us to mantain hardness and determination.

 

Lol lol lol thank you for making my days at work less longer... TAG or not this is really funny thread... What the BIG secret about this TAG? LOL...

Thank you

 

You can't hunt in Italy? Strange I know loads of people hunting in Italy.

 

oh yes you can hunt in italy,but dog must not fight with wild boar ot badger etc etc. So no contact and not fight,so you can't use bulldog to hunt,although a lot of people use them,but they are considered criminal for the italian law.

 

But what does this mean in a practical way?
How do you test by example 'determination to fight', without even touching one-another?
And valuation according to the social aspect, what do you do exactly? put your hand in his food to check if he doesn't attack your arms, or?
People dont seem to understand, just because your info about the tag-testing, is just about the characteristics which are tested, not HOW its tested.

 

Is it written somewhere in the Italian law that the dogs has to not fight with the boar and the badger? Or is it only the old hunter and the ethics that says that? There is a big difference here.
In countries like France and Germany, it is more about ethic and moral rather than a real law written. Old hunter don't like to use bitter dogs, because they like to use guns, but some of them realize that when you want to be efficient especially underground nothing better than a dog who is mixt bayer and bitter. I know people who use patterdales and dogos in Italy (and for sure those breed are not made to be bayers lol) and they never told me they were against the law, they don't hide, and hunt very legally. So I am very suprise about your law thing...

 

You seem to be very concern about laws and so on, which is good, I have nothing to say about that. But I don't really understand then why talk about the TAG here, in an open board? If it is SO MUCH secret, and you say at the same time that the TAG is nothing illegal.
You like and want to raise a breed that is a show breed, but in opposite you want the breed to be multipurpose and do things with them, ok there is nothing wrong with that, you can do plenty of things with your dogs that has nothing about going against the law. RING, WP, schutzhund, endurance, TOW and so on. A lot of countries already do it so (Holland, with the sporting club of Holland, England, Ireland)
If you are so concern with the law you have two choices:
Or you really keep everything secret and keep your work away from boards and you don't advertize
Or you do only things that are totally legals
Telling us, that you have a really super new test that no dogs can pass, or just a few, on an open board, and then not going into details of that test and then telling us that we don't understand nothing and we are monkeys, just because, you want to advertize your kennel but in an another hand you don't want to tell too much because of the law this is really STUPID. Sorry mate but this is the truth (Normal I never answer and never participate to this kind of board, but I am bored and wanted to have a little "fun" before my holidays.). Anyway keep working your dogs this is nice and I like the type of your dogs, they are nicely put...

 

Hello belianka, in Italy are passed new laws that prohibit direct contact between dogs and wild animal ... ratting also falls under this law. Before this law, was tolerated some contact between dogs and wild animals, but now the controls have become severe...

I myself have hunted for many years with Staffy, Patterdale, Jagd Terrier and some cross... boar, fox, badger and porcupine ... and I saw the game of these little working dogs.

These are some of my pictures from when I went hunting ...



I and Cristiano after a long and busy hunting day

The TAG is not secret but is difficult for us to explain it in a language that we know little ... and the "danger" is that by not using the exact terms the reader can get an wrong idea of the test ...

The TAG is divided into three parts:

The first part must evaluate the social behavior of the dog to a stranger. The dog is tied up and left alone, and the judge assistant approaching and stroking the dog. If the dog is unnaturally aggressive towards man does not pass the test, because the staff has to be a sociable dog and not aggressive with people.

The second part assesses the hardness (or resistance to pain) through a sudden and intense pressure on the dog nose. If the dog cries not pass the test, because the Staffy must be insensitive to pain. This part is the most selective because the 60% of the dogs cry when they feel pain.

The third part must verify the desire to face a "hostile stimulation". Now the judge assistant faces suddenly the dog and hits with a wedge on his side. The dog should respond promptly jumping his opponent and never turn back. If the dog crying, withdraws or not attack with conviction does not pass the test.

All this is done without stimulate the dog previously. The dog does not need a preparation, but is evaluated that genetics "inside" the dog.

This test is NOT used to evaluate a dog for the defense because the attack is directed to the dog and not the owner... but only to evaluate the three basic characteristics of a bulldog namely sociality, toughness and combativeness.

The test should be done once in a dog's life.

With this test Maurizio Ceracchi has developed a line of SBT that has given excellent results of boars, foxes, badgers and buffalo ... and of course in self-defense.





This is Ceracchi's Orca, the founder of our family line ... she is from the TAG selection and it is portrayed in these pictures while working on the badger in a legal hunting in Slavonia ... two hours and eight minutes mouth to mouth with the badger and never give up, cry or withdraw ...

http://dogarchive.kennel-apbt.com/details.php?id=117225


To conclude my speech, I do not know if the TAG is a test 100% sure, but it's better than nothing.

 

I forgot to say that I have explained the TAG so simple, but you should understand and see how to tighten the dog's muzzle (to try to make him cry) and how to hit the side to try to shut it down.

 

Thank you for finally answering in details about that TAG.
I will NOT put my opinion about that test, but I will only say, like you said, it is better than nothing and just for this I respect it.
Keep on working your dogs, this is the most important (I think) and unless you don't call them gamedogs, or gamebredogs, I have nothing wrong to say about it.
And thanks for sharing those nice hunting pics, that I always enjoy to see, a real working dog in action.
Cheers

 

Thanks for your words belianka. I believe that talking through the internet creates many misunderstandings because it also happens in Italy between breeders. Many people with we were discussing on the web have now become our best friends when we met and talked face to face ...

best regards

 

Orca looks like a nice dog capable of hard work

 

I don't understand why u would hit the dog in the side .... If I hit my staff she would cry and. Ack down for sure if u hit her she would prob do the same but that's because she has no intrest in hurting or upsetting us in return she lives people and would hurt her feeling if a person hit her with a wedge but get her something she don't like and would like to hurt and she will 100% act different to a person hitting her I may have my wires twisted here but seems pointless why. It wait till there old a nuff and have seen some older dogs work there quarry let them see the badger and get stuck in or quit and run out the earth and test done the ones that stay and work pass and the ones that don't don't ???

But I agree some test is better then no test

 

It seems contradictory that you want sound dogs around people but then in the test you want them to react to a human that's hitting them?

 

sounds fuckin stupid to me.

 

The test must be done by a stranger to the dog and never by his master or people that the dog knows.

If the dog does not pass the test is part of the 70% and more of dogs that do not pass the test ... nothing more or less.

The fact that a person has to face the dog is just a practical expedient, because it could be, for example, a boar or badger to hit it and tighten it on the nose and the test would not change the result.

This test is NOT used to evaluate a dog for the defense because the attack is directed to the dog and not the owner... but only to evaluate the three basic characteristics of a bulldog namely sociality, toughness and combativeness.

The tests does not serve to choose aggressive dogs with people (in fact they would not pass the test)

The test is so concentrated and directed that the dog responds only by instinct (genetic response) so that 60 seconds after facing the judge assistant the 99% of the dogs wags their tail at the judge assistant as if nothing had happened.

 

The reality of the test is that a bulldog, although good with people, when stimulated to combat MUST fight ... . But this has nothing to do with being aggressive with people, but relies on the innate pugnacity that these dogs must have.

In a few words a dog with "balls" tackles and fights every opponent without hesitation if necessary.

 

if thats what it takes to prove your dogs have "balls", then our dogs are very different.

i prefer mine not to consider a human an opponent...ever

 

Hello, I can not explain and I apologize, but I'd like to see at least the willingness to understand my words.

A staff that passes the test is not a staff aggressive with people, neither he seeing people as is opponent ...

"The first part must evaluate the social behavior of the dog to a stranger. The dog is tied up and left alone, and the judge assistant approaching and stroking the dog. If the dog is unnaturally aggressive towards man does not pass the test, because the staff has to be a sociable dog and not aggressive with people."

I repeat that the test is used to find the dog more sociable, hard and combative in the population ... this in countries like Italy where every hunting work with the contact between the dog and animals is now prohibited.

Now, again, the test does not tell us if the dog is game or if it is put mouth to mouth with a badger stays there until is death ...

However, and over twenty years of tests conducted on various breeds of big hunting dogs, we can say that many dogs that have passed the TAG later proved to be excellent in hunting activities ... as we saw that many dogs used in big hunting have passed the test ...

It is true that some individuals who have not passed the TAG later proved to be good hunters and also the opposite... but this does not diminish the value of the test because in 90% of cases the test was confirmed to be reliably.

Since not all people want to go to jail for their passion, TAG proved to be a good compromise between doing nothing or go hunting in danger of going to jail.

I have 3 children and a fourth coming up and I do not want to have any trouble with the law ... and so how I think many other breeders.


Annulla modifiche

 

I don't hit my dogs but if for some crazy reason I were to hit one of them on the side with a stick, and they showed aggression towards me, I would cull the hell out of em.