ok soooo ofrn

so i was looking at a ofrn website today just for the hell of it and i was allways under the impression that the ofrn dogs bred by the ol time greats like lightner hemphill wilder had dogs that were kinda their own line and from all red dogs... well alot goes right back to colby and tudor.. alot go back to searchy jeff and tudors (colbys) fighting peter.. even lightners dogs go back to them... these dogs arent considered ofrn are they ??

 

i dont think so either.

 

The best and purest yard of OFRN dogs IMO was Bob Wallaces yard, when Bob died his wife (as per his wishes) had them all put down.

NGK

 

ya now that i think about it you are right ngk.. he had red raven as a foundation female and curly and some others .. but searchy jeff wasnt a red dog and what about all that colby blood in some of them dogs.. ya i forgot about bob wallace he had a couple different lines he kept seperate

 

Lightners dogs didn't go back into Tudors or Colby.
Bill got his dogs from his father, uncles, ect.
Bill owned dogs before Colby ever came along. Long before Earl Tudor.
BTW I knew Bob Wallace. I was talking to him one time and he stated the last breeding he did was when he took a Corvino gyp over to Floyd Boudreaux' house and bred to Gaboon Turhan's Rascal.

BTW quit spamming my billboard....

 

That's not true.
Bob died in an old folks home in Little Rock AR. back in the early 80's.
Bob didn't have dogs for years when he died.

 

im not trying to debate or anything IM.. just curious ive allways new your basic things about the ofrn but lightners topsy,lightners vick,lightners bucky all had colby in them and they were on the topside of geronimo.. through colbys paddy and fighting peter.. this was a surprise to me.. someone pm'd me and told me to check out your site and gave me the link yesterday.. your site was not the reason for this thread.. i brought this thread up because of a ped i saw on old family reds website..

 

i dont fool with peds online can anyone post a ped for lightners bucky .

 

also lightners boy, lightners june all have colby in them too through old danger

 

although lightner was known for his ofrn line maybe he had other lines also thats what im trying to figure out.. thanks in advance for any knowledge on this

 

Let me correct then Mike, his wife had his last few remaining dogs put down, he himself put down the majority.

NGK

 

No let me correct you. I talk to his nephew last night!
His Uncle put down the dogs years before.
His wife didn't have dogs when he was in the OFH!!
Maybe you talked to him, maybe not.
I know I did and I know what he told me....
You are thinking of the story of Walter K. of his wife doing, who also didn't and sold them off the Tony M. a friend of mine and Frank R. in OH.

 

Well pitboss,
Bill Lightner live until the mid 1960's.
He got dogs came from the people I named.
There is no debate just informing people with the correct information and not a bunch BS!
No one knew for sure if the dogs Bill got from his family were direct descendents from the Irish Old Family Reds Fighting Dogs or not.
They could not be directly traced back like Jim Corcoran and others could.

Now for the Bull Shit story of Bill selling off his Red Nose dogs because they were getting to large was just that---BULL SHIT.
Yes he did give away and farm some dogs out.

Bill started to use a line of dogs which was dominantly black nose.
He was very successful with them.
NO ONE knew how they were really bred.
Many believe they might be descendents of the Colby line of dogs.
Back in the 19th century the breed hadn't standardized it's self enough to breed true.
This was an era where the breed was still basically being created and formed for uniformity.

Bill crossed his red nose line of dogs with his black nose line of dogs.
This is why in later years you could still remnants of his red nose dogs mixed with black nose stock as like Hetrick's TNT Mike.
As for the pedigrees of Lightners dogs, no one and I mean NO ONE knew how they were bred!

 

I was going off a letter he wrote where he stated that his health was failing and that he had only a couple left for company as he had put down the majority because he didn't want the "pepsi generation" to have them. Im going off of memory here but it was Wallace and I have a copy of that letter in my old hard drive.

I know that letter is on a few different sites, maybe someone will post it up.

NGK

 

http://apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Pedigrees&file=printPedigree&dog_id=16181

 

Yes, I know the letter. That was wrote years BEFORE he died.
I think that was wrote in what? 1973 or so?
Bob had no dogs when he died.
Now if you would put forth the effort and talk to Floyd he will tell at the end of Bob's career in dogs he was breeding Corvino dogs and the last breeding he did was to Rascal off Corvino's Bouncer and Corvino's Makeup.

 

Now if it appears on Online Pedigrees it is gospel.
Lets see, I lost count how many of my dogs are on that service and about 90% have the wrong pedigree.
And just like Bill Lightner, I never posted none of them and they're posted by someone else.

Nice pedigrees of a mixture of dogs with Lightner's name on them.
And those pedigrees, aren't dogs of his OFRN stock from his family.

Bill was born in about 1877 and died around about 1959.
Bill's family had dogs long before he was alive.
John P. Colby never got his first dog until 1889.
He died around about the mid 1940's.
This was years before Robert Foster Wallace came around.........

Bill started his mixer back in the late 1800's.
This is why Bob Hemphill and Dan McCoy went to LA. 1927 to gain access the only dogs available to the public of Lightner's dogs which were still from the straight blood of his family.

Oh one last thing which is needed to be made very clear.
Geronimo wasn't the only dog around of pure Hemphill bloodline when he died.
He by far wasn't the best representation of his stock.
As for other bloodlines in Geronimo, there is also Corvino on his top side!
Skagg had much better stock of the Hemphill bloodline then most who owned the Hemphill stock.

 

I stand corrected, good thing im not into rednosed dogs or id have looked like a real idiot, lol.

Do you remember the story of the dutchboy bitch from the pound mike, I beleive it was you that told me how she was one of the gamest dogs you had ever seen, but I may be wrong about that as well, would love to hear the story again as it was years ago I 1st heard it.

NGK

 

She wasn't the gamest I've ever seen.

Yes I remember the story with Jessie Boggs.
The point of the story was, good dogs are where you find them.
She was from the pound and her sire was Dutch Boy and NO Dutch Boy was not a grand champion.
The bitch was pure Boudreaux bloodline of Cummings.

Stormin Norman like her so well he traded Boggs a double cross daughter of Gr. Ch. Snake I gave him for the bitch from the pound.
She was the only female ever produced that was double crossed off Gr. Ch. Snake.
Norman got Blossum and I kept a double cross daughter off Gr. Ch. Pedro.
I don't know what Norman did with the female off Dutch Boy.
Boggs sent Blossom to Jimmie C. for payment of Susie off Samson & Bea, mother of Ch. Red Dog.
Jimmie is who had Buddy (20 month old male) in the other story.

Funny how years ago people would keep the breeder's name on a dog or maybe the first generation off those dogs. i.e. Boudreaux's Check, Floyd had nothing to do with the breeding of Check.
Nowadays they try to take credit for others breeding and get their name on the papers to add credit to their self as dog people.
All they really are,,, paper breeders.

I can't complain, I've owned a lot of good dogs, more then maybe I deserved.
Many off grand champions like Solution, Snake, Pedro, Joey, etc. and turned down taking just as many like Mr. Bill and Gamedog Inc. Rico offered me a pup off Ch. Princess and Gr. Ch. Moongoose.
They won't even let the owner of Princess, (Steve) have one. )))

I can't even begin to count all the pups I had or turned down off champions, from Ch. Crock, Ch. Rock, Ch. Stein, Ch. Beatle Juice, Ch. Switchblade, on and on.
And R.O.M. dogs.
More so maybe of the R.O.M. dogs.
I think I always felt I surly would end up with the one who was always rank. LOL.
Because it happened enough times...