Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

hahaha ever heard of food refusal training i know a ridgeback that would tear your face off for offering one piece of kibble! And i know dogs you wouldnt get a hand near their eyes without losing it! wake up!

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

reading comprehension is your friend...and while you are at it, read post #156

like i said earlier today, alot more can be learned by less talking, more listening

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Wow.

First and foremost, Jelet.... I think you need to stop reading books and actually gain some handling experience. Also, if you are going to pick up any books, please pick up some on Sch. and the purpose behind it. People often misconstrue the difference between a PP dog and a Sch. dog.

Using this breed in Sch. I believe to be constructive and a great mental and physical exercise for these dogs. Learning to channel their drive and learn some self control as well as having an outlet and reward, it also allows you to learn your dogs weaknesses and strengths. It's a great test as far as the stability of your dog goes. You also have to have the right handlers/trainers as every breed is different. HOWEVER....there is also a reason why many of these dogs don't make it far in the Sch. world. Handler sensitivity is a huge one. There are many dogs that are conditioned to hit sleeves and aren't able to make the jump from the sleeve to a person. (In all breeds, let alone the minority of APBT's that make it in the sport at all) IE: To become an effective working k9.

HA is not required for a dog to be protective of their owner. You have that right. But also, why would you want to trust a green dog to take care of you if you're in trouble?
There are breeds (GSD, Malinois, ect.) that specialize in these tasks and are bred for such and yet many still fail to follow through...and it's what their GENETICALLY bred for. So why would you choose to depend on a breed that is about as far from a protection/guardian breed as you can get?

Something else you have to remember is this..... dogs do not reason. When you're getting you butt kicked, your dog isn't going to go "Hey...that's my owner. He feeds me and loves me so I should protect him.".... He's going to sense danger. But if your dog has never encountered such a situation, in this breed.. he's more than likely not going to react the way you hoped. Maybe he'll take a test bite, if you're lucky but will likely be very easily detoured. Most likely barking and frustration will occur, unsure of what to do. Even the guardian breeds start from when they are very young to begin their bite development and again, these are genetically bred for these purposes and they still start young to condition the dogs to certain reactions and environments. Many of these reactions they condition as a pup are ones that normal people don't want in a dog and naturally teach the opposite.

I'm NOT saying there are not dogs out there who aren't protective of their person but the LIKELIHOOD that they will know what to do, enough to take down a person should a violent situation arise.. is more unlikely than likely. And I wouldn't be counting on my dog that I'm not sure of in a situation where my life is on the line. I wouldn't be counting on a dog that instinctually and genetically, is bred not to harm a human.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Nice post Shameless. Very good points. Makes sense to me.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

This is an excellent post.. You hit the nail on the head. Hopefully the point is received by the folks who need this insight.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

AGREE,AGREE,AGREE

This is the perfect post and should not be allowed to go on any longer most perfect response i have seen to a long drawn out post ranting back and forth how about we say



THE END..........

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I miss the thank you button. :cool:

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Thank you Shameless! That would be a perfect post to end this thread on.

Take advice from people who have experience with this type of training and these types of situations, not just those talking out their ass or regarding anyone as all-knowledgeable just because they've published a book.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Hopedfdully thisd dcddna shut him up

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

And on that note, LOL! Excellent reply.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Seriously dude, look at it like would a dog not schooled for the pit have a high chance of being a natural game-dog? for crying out loud.

Training is training, schooling is schooling, no difference.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I let others who have countless years of experience with the breed give me the facts such as ncprisonguard, california jack, richard stratton. And I never said Sch. was a protection sport. Performance Kennels has her dog in Sch. and the dog is not human aggressive or protection trained... Its a sport. I understand that. What I said originally was 9/10 times an APBT with a good bond will defend its owner if the owner is being "jumped" or attacked.

agreed

Because breeds such as GSD's, Malinoisis, etc are hairy 25 minute< currs. They will quit on you when things get tough. I am not saying my dog is not a cur. I will never know unless dogfighting is legal in the usa. But, the chances of my dog curring out before a GSD are slim. If shot or beaten with a wooden bat. I do not trust the hairy 25 min or less cur not scratching back at the attacker. They do not have the same pain tolerance, they do not have the same courage.

I do not believe that is true. Sure they do not "Reason", but I do believe they sense danger and will try to protect there loved one.

I do not believe that is true.

I do not believe that is true.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Jelet -

A good GSD is certainly a CUR in the bulldogs game, but trust that a GSD/Mal bred for and trained as a K-9 will be most effective at their job with maximum distraction, including a physical assault. To imply otherwise would indicate to me you have not seen a good one. Check it out, you will be surprised.

Comparing the work of this kind of dog to a bulldogs work is silly....in other words no valid conclusions can be drawn from such a comparison.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

lol i love this site

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

And we could test 10 APBTs and prove this wrong! As someone said earlier, this is all just a romanticized opinion of "man's best friend". The vast majority of untrained pets aren't going to do a damn thing when the shit hits the fan. I think what also bothers me is you keep going on about an APBT with a "good bond" will defend it's owner. Who are you to even comment about the bond any of us have with our dogs? Just because people here have shared their personal experiences and admitted their APBTs didn't react doesn't mean they are lacking any sort of bond. Do you think you've excelled at raising a dog because you believe he will defend you in situations as described? Maybe you are mistaking your dogs underlying aggression issues for genuine protection.

Sure, in the sense of the sport that is now illegal, GSDs/Mals may very well be curs. But really you cannot apply that same term to those types of dogs. Quitting on the level of dog fighting cannot even begin to parallel anything else in the dog world. But other breeds are good at what they are bred to do, and that doesn't make them curs in the APBT world. It's apples to oranges. You may not like GSDs/Mals but they are incredibly different and you shouldn't knock them because they aren't able to do WHAT THEY WEREN'T BRED TO DO (aka show game in a dog fight. seriously, c'mon...)

And have you ever even watched a GSD or Mal in action? I'm still new to that world but especially in the higher French Ring and PSA sports, they don't spare the dogs anything. You think those bamboo clatter sticks are just used to gently tap the dogs? Think again. Go watch some videos of trials, they smack the living hell out of those dogs. In PSA, they spray the dogs with water hoses, throw trash cans at them, swing duffels bags at them, etc all while the dog is sent in for a bite! There have been Police K-9s who have been shot and will still continue to chase the bad guy, or will retain their grip on the perp. That's pretty impressive if you ask me.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Damn it, you saved me a lot of typing! lol It's good to know people in this thread are sharing the same thought process. This is getting ridiculous.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I agree. I've seen K-9s while they work and they are amazing.

You cannot compare the two at all.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Jelet: my bet would be on the GSD, not the bulldog.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

The word "dense" comes to mind.

I really dont think it matters what you are told you are going to belive whatever you want. you have a few vauge references in a book that is not even on the subject of protection and you want to take it as gospel. at this point i am really amiss as to what to say to convince you that you are not readig that correctly. i am not saying that it is impossible for a green dog (green means no training, no testing) to protect in the face of a threat. But the dog is not reliable. you cant control it in that state, if it was to attack, so you are screaming at your dog and trying to pull it off of the assailant while your dog mauls the guy. because guess what, you can be sued if your dog attacks and kills someone, even if they are in the wrong. look it up, there have been cases where dogs were taken and put down for protecting thier families because the dog mauled the guy uncontrollably.

you 9/10 times analogy is a farce. its laughable to say the least... a more accurate figure is 1/1,000... and that might be too generous. the most likely thing to have happen is the dog will bluff and put on a vocal display, and when that fails they will back up or turn. even if the dog was to go in it would be a test bite or a nip and if the decoy or threat didnt react to it the dog would turn at that point.

Im sorry i really dont know another way to say "you are wrong." So, YOU ARE WRONG.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

It seems like I am beating a dead antelope. I am not going to convince you. You are not going to convince me. I stand behind my sources. You stand behind personal believes. Get sources, then you will get my slight attention. That is how it is done in the real world. I appreciate the humor, but this needs to come to a cessation. This will be my last post in the thread unless I see a legit source posted. Happy Holidays bitches and gents.