Gameness of a Kerry Blue

Really mate, I know nowt on terriers, hunting dogs, or Staffordshire Terriers, but I listened to the locals who had them and they talked about Buster (patterdale) the same way the nut on here talks about Zebo! There was times Buster even looked and acted like Zebo, evil to the core and a man biting little bstrd, but lord he was game! Everyone said he had Staff in him and apparently that was curious since Buster came direct from BN's private stock.

There was a Stafford called Punch that ran around the streets back then, must have been first contact for nearly every young prospect in the area.. Whenever somebody had one ready they'd send the local kids out looking for punch. telling them to bring him up the woods.. Even the drunks who sat round fires at the local tip, if they wanted some light entertainment, Buster and Punch were on parade again.. All happening with Gr.Ch. Bill, Ch. Masada and others kennelled less than 100 yards away.. Crazy!

 

I think if selected breeding for gameness in terriers digging terriers or drawing baiting dogs maybe it could be seen or achieved on a larger scale but as stated already by fairly wise sounding people on this forum that the overall objectives for most terriers is to dispatch or bay untill dug to and in some cases dispatch quarry itself in rocky areas that cannot be dug to in most all them cases it's the famous old patterdale/fell that's used probably the only true game little terrier there is that will face Brock time and time again..bulldogs are specifically bred to give it all to the death not be smart to fight another day that's for the handler to call a game dog will not make that decision on his own..Brown bull of Cooley

 

Just a side note pats where bred for fox mainly as the area pats come from is sheep farming land. And there harder because the land can be impossible to dig. Not because there bred for badger.

 

I have been connected with various patterdale breeders actually going back to mid nineties
the name scholten, cloot etc might ring a bell to some , I also send the first patterdales to Canada and one of first to USA ( not my own) I tried to own them 2 times and they just drive me nuts
in regards to what they are bred for hunters prefer bayers to stayers
they hunt almost every week , real hunters dont want real hard dogs ( they dont tend to use the word gameness as far as I am aware)
hard dogs can only be used sparingly

I am in no way an expert just conversations here and there
the following breeds were mentioned once in a while like wheatons and other terrier crosses , no jack russel

never ever did I hear kerry blue
I did hear yellow and green curry tough

 

Sorry I think you misunderstood I didn't say that people were digging to the dog while he was down after a fox or badger I simply stated that a terrier who will dispatch quarry because he cannot be dug to nevertheless the statement I made on a good patterdale who will face a badger time after time still remains true..Brown bull of Cooley

 

Well said Lrs.

 

Depends what you mean time after time mate 5 or 6 times a year I wouldn’t class.

 

It doesn't matter if it's only 3 times a year if the dog takes a bad baiting of a badger and goes back a second or third time for the same punishment with no hesitation that's game..after all game doesn't mean the winner or how often your matched against something thanks..Brown bull of Cooley

 

Your missing the point mate.^^^^^^

 

Ah not sure the land owner would see it the same way mate like I said numbers are the standard terriers are bred to game dogs are a breed standard peculiar to the bulldog for the square.

 

What point mate please elaborate with all due respect if there is a point to be made can somebody please explain

 

I agree with you 100 % on that one I think I'm coming across wrong here I'm not saying that there's people particularly breeding really game terriers that will attack the badger time after time instead of baying and keeping a safe distance but them dogs are out there that will try every time to get the better of the badger and die trying I completely understand that the majority of working digging terriers are bred smart enough not to take to much punishment to go working again in s few days time..I think what defines game in a bulldog way outways what defines game in other animals if that makes sense..Brown bull of Cooley

 

^^^^^^^^you got it mate!
That was the point you just said.

 

Apparently Brian Nuttal's grandfather added pit dogs from Northumberland in to the mix years back.
Now I'm not saying Brian did the same but I do know he's had a bulldog or two over the years.
One time when we went to buy a dog over 20 years ago his bulldog bitch nearly killed one of his Patts when he let it out of the run.
The dog locked on to the males throat and he had to get the breaking stick out and massage the dog back to life, we just looked at each other gone out.

 

It's a tricky one tbh, you have to ask why is there so many articles and books claiming the APBT is a terrier and bull cross if it isn't?

On the other hand if the Bulldog was truly game then why on earth would you cross it with terriers to make fighting dogs?

The APBT's history is filled with contradictions, interesting nevertheless.

 

some one wrote in a an early book about bull and terriers ,,and people just keep reprinting it in every book since

 

So all that documentation came about from all those sources because of one book? Seems far fetched to me.

Also how do you explain pitbull specimens being so small and terrier like in appearance?
And lastly didn't someone make a cross between a Manchester Terrier and a Bulldog which resulted in a dog looking exactly like an APBT?

It is a difficult one to work out because there's good arguments for both histories.

 

Modern pit bull still come small with out any terriers mixed in ,,why is it strange they ware small back then ,,?
people writing books , don't do research , they just copy what was printed in older books, sure most old book have nearly copied word for word of older books ,,,
the name bulldog was used by the KC ,,for the sour mug bulldog , by 1900 they ware almost deformed , if you crossed that with a Manchester terrier ,,you'd not get a dog looking anything like a Pitbull ,,Iv seen that print of the dog called Jock Of the Bushfeld ,, all I can say is there was idiots posting stuff and made up stuff like there is now

 

But once it's been put in it will rear it's head on occasions, plus I bet they naturally run smaller when bred proper tight?
So you're of the belief no terrier blood was added whatsover throughout history in every single line?

 

Nice post......

They are the nearest thing to the original baiting dogs.i think they are a diluted inbred version of them.
and i better explain..or though its a some what hard thing to explain in writing.
its not developed because some genius crossed a baiting dog with a ratting terrier.but some strains were...
these dogs exsisted before ratting terriers exsisted.there is evidence that men were matching dogs in the 1600s.we never had brown rats in the 1600s.we had black rats then,witch is a mouse type beast what runs as soon as it can.it spread the pleage to, and even though it was considerd it needed eradicateing-haha! not many men give them credit as a sporting beast to pit in hundreds ageinst dogs.more like give them a wide breath..
but some time in the 1700s the brown rat invaded,some historiens say as late as 1760.other reports say a woman was ate alive by brown rats in Ireland as early as 1720.
either way,the brown rat took over from the black,pleage spreading rat.
and the brown rat was twice as big as the black fucker,more adapteble to the UK sewer systems and more adapteble to grain.and if it was twice as big it was a hundred times more aggresive.and it became sporting qurry pretty much as soon as it landed here.
in my imagination it would of started of with a dozen rats tipped into a pit,terriers were now bred for speed to kill them against the clock.but then the sport progressed from a dozen rats to a hundred..and them terriers were just not up to killing that many