WHY DO WE WORSHIP THE BULL AND SACRIFICE THE TERRIER

Dusty, I don't really disagree with most of what you just said, apart maybe from where the red noses pigmentation originally came from. I firmly believe it was seen first in Black country dogs a long time before they were seen or were recognised in the states. Again I don't mean any disrespect, like all these posts sometimes things are taken a little out of context or whatever and all of a sudden you are in the middle of an argument with someone who if you sat down and had a pint with you would find out you had a lot more similar beliefs and values etc.than maybe even members of your own family even. I've seen adverts etc of Irish imported dogs , if I remember rightly there are some in one of the old books Meeks Hanna or whatever. I just believe that there were more English dogs and even those Irish ones were predominately bred from English dogs just like the modern so called Irish staffs. Also I didn't want to disrespect men like Stratton, Brown and Mullins. Some of their books are my most prized possessions. I think I want to leave it at that, but thank you for your reply in a educated polite and dignified manner.

 

Tell me.........Stedz & Soze.........
You two a double act,or just working together ??

 

W.t.f.???...whats that meant to mean?

 

yeah i do feel a bit of a muppet at times on this post, to be honest i wished I'd kept my mouth shut and my opinions to myself. Spent most of the day scratching my fucking head. lol!

 

LOL For sure the article created an avalanche.

 

Who is 'bending' history? My statement on the Highland Clearances of Scotland was a FACT. The rest was SPECULATION.

 

Ha,ha,lol...put another article on F.W.K...you'll cause a riot.

 

fighting dogs came from all parts of Britain , at that time Ireland was part of Britain , every large city had dog pits , there are plenty of examples of Irish stains imported to USA, as for OFRNs,, they ware developed from Irish stains of Pit bulls, the colour of the nose only came later , probably from inbreeding

 

So you dont believe that the pigmentation known in staffords as a dudley nose,over a hundred years ago is the same as shown in the OFRN,even though the dogs come from the same genetic gene pool then?

 

What Im saying is ,,OFRN as a strain was developed in the USA from mostly Irish stains of APBT , the early OFRN, did not all have red noses , as far as I read it came about from inbreeding , the early dogs in the strain did not all have red noses ,,I don't know if pit dogs from Dudley ware in the mix , I never actually seen any called Dudley staffords , in any old adverts or any old books ,,

 

There is a picture in The history of fighting dogs by Mike Homan book of one of his own dogs with a so called dudley nose.Dusty if you are the person i think you may be,what happened to the photos in your second terrier book?

 

I have that book and had a quick look , it has a liver /dudley nose , its a description of the nose colour , not a breed or strain , it was probably not uncommon in the past before fighting dogs, became kc show dogs and only black noses ware accepted ,,

 

got the msg,thanks,it was accepted mate as a strain of bull and terrier in the black country,before the dogs got kc recognition because Harry rogers told me.and i wouldnt doubt anything that the man told me.

 

Dusty,can you tell me please,did Willie delaney have a son called peter who boxed?

 

Haha Soze the killer you're amazing^^ Where have you seen here that I (or anybody else) said that Dusty road is wrong?

So look, i'll do like if I didn't know any of those facts (after all i'm here since only 2-3 years, maybe i haven't seen the others posts of Dusty Road which are on the board...).

You said Irish people bred some good working line, ok. You said those real staff are basically extinct nowaday, i guess you're right. And you said that those same Irish men who were used to breed "real staff" then change for APBT because a game bred staff could hardly compet with an apbt, that's true as far as I know. But does that mean their dogs became useless? They were not able to do the job they were bred for anymore, most of them if not all couldn't stand face to an APBT so...

Now the question is why at this time, when they realized that a game bred Staff couldn't do the job anymore and changed for apbt, why at this time there were no more people who worked with others and tried to turn all those game bred staff into sporting dogs? Instead of just changing for another breed and then getting pissed off by modern Sbt? . Some did I guess, I've seen one or two sporting line that are carrying stockade blood for example but what's about the others? If more did maybe we would see more of those athletic and healthy dogs becoming champion today, not in a box but in the field and maybe people would not be so used to unhealthy and unatlethic sbt, maybe...

And that's why I said before that's it's sad that everybody stay on his side and that people should be more open minded and work together, for the purpose of the breed. And that's why I'm pissed off too when everybody's bitching about Sbt because who did something?

That ain't right, I never said in my previous post that a "pet" could compete in a box or anything else , just that they're not useless by it. Actually In your above post you just spread out your science and showed to dusty road that you have a crush on him... nothing more, nothing less.


You know There is always two type of people. The one who speak about their own experience and knowledge and the one who just speak. On this board that's what i call the difference between dogmen and wannabe, some speak about their own dogs, what they've learned from them and what they know and some repeat what they've read on another thread... but like if they really knew it you see

I let you guess who's who, you ain't right for my dog but maybe this time you'll get it

F.

 

Ha,ha,lol.lmao.no worry's flow.u have your opinion, I have mine.that's cool.sorry to offend u or your dog.its just the way I am.don't take it personal.flow when I said useless I meant from a working perspective............ But owning a dog as a pet is great.no really. Dogs are awesome!as F.W.K. says a few Page's back a healthy athletic staff is a joy to have around.......peace.

 

I don't know , they ware before my time in the dogs , Willie was old man when I was getting into dogs ,

 

Dusty i just pm,you.

 

You can take Mr. Rogers word if you wish. I am not trying to say otherwise. I personally do not know of this fellow. If he is more knowledgeable than Stratton, I commend him.
Stratton has been around the breed a while. I have read some of his writing. Do I consider it gospel? No. I do not think any one writer...or person...knows any more than anyone else.
as we get older, we forget things and seem to confuse them also. I am not saying that towards anyone, but it is not far off.

Maybe you could share some of the history of Harry and his Grandfathers dogs with us here. Many families here have history with the dogs. Sometimes the bulldog "bite" skips a generation or even 2...as it is not 100% hereditary..lol
As far as listening to the "so called experts" above. I have read quite a few books. The ones that stories line up with history are the ones Id trust. The history is well documented here.
It is the whole "where they come from" part that is confused. We have record of them coming from there, and you all record of where the went....
I am also not aware that anyone of the "experts have claimed Colby of being Irish Descent either. If so...I missed that.
As far as them being believed...or truthful....well...it is all we have to go by...


as far as Obama and Ali...and their heritage....well again...It does not concern me.
I have Black Irish cousins. that is no joke. America is a soup of people...no mystery there..
....dogs don't lie.....men do.. info is passed down the line...much of it can be verified by simply more research...as I have found.

cheers

 

That is my understanding also. As I said.. The Lightner dogs were the supposed root of the red nose. I am not sure of many Red nose dogs before the ones I mentioned above.
The OLD Family Reds were suppose to have been extinct..at one point..a couple fellas found some in the swamps...and a few highly regared dogs came about, families were created again.
some red nose...and some black nose...

I agree with Dusty ...as tht is what I have learned also.