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Blue Paul Terrier

Discussion in 'APBT History' started by JBL, Jun 4, 2014.

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  1. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    TDK, i asked you specific questions, you reply with ad hominem.

    I read fine, here's your own words:

    "Gameness manifests in late maturation and in full maturity. You don't see it at a very early age or you're in the business of ruining young dogs"

    "One doesn't develop it at some very young age".

    Gameness is indomitable courage in a dog nothing more......you don't need to straw-man debate prey-drive grit or tenacity.

    It isn't will to dominate,its indomitable will when being dominated.
     
  2. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    BILL BOYLAN
    We had a lot of support from the old dog fighters in those days. Brindle Bill was there, and I found a very nice dog. Before I met Joe Mallen, Phil Dee, I knew already, and he introduced me to Joe at the Old Cross Guns in Cradley Heath. Phill Dee loved very much to bet on Badgerbaitings. He always had a good Dog available, and he bet that no dog, no matter what kind,could hold out until at last the badger would stop, and I have never heard that he ever lost his bet!


    BILL BOYLAN
    Before I met Joe Mallen originally, I knew Phil Dee, who in fact introduced me to Joe at the Old Cross Guns in Cradley Heath.
    Phil Dee was keen on badgering against a dog. He usually had a good badger available, and would bet that no dog - of . any kind - would stay at the badger until the badger quit, and I never heard of him losing a bet!.I remember once taking a good bitch of mine to a pub in Hanwell, London, where Phil had a badger, for some sport. I set the bitch down and in she went - and what a drubbing she got!. She must have thought it was going to be like tackling another dog, but the badger was different, very different, and the bitch found out the hard way!. I don't think she was for quitting, but I stopped her from participation because the badger wouldn't budge ..... he just sat in the corner and fought her off. I don' I know how I got her home on the underground, but I did,she was bad, but she pulled through O.K. She eventually died at the age of ten years from a tumour in her Milk Glands.Phils best stafford bitch was Tearaway Floss. She was not a heavily built bitch, but she had lots of heart and was an expert at badgering according to some of the things he told me.

    BILL BOYLAN
    There was a badger brought down from the north before the war to have two Cradley dogs tried against it - both useful dogs- I heard that the badger killed both dogs, one after the other. Police were making enquiries about Cradley around that time about something or other, so things tended to cool-off. That was the way it was at the Old Cross Guns in those days ..... always something or other going on


    PHILLIP DEE
    "Fearless Joe literally dived in and claimed the badger. Neither would give ground, unfortunately the earth proved to be a disused land drain and we had to pick lumps of concrete out of the ground in order to reach them both. It poured with rain but after three hours they were secured."

    JOE MALLEN
    "Fearless Joe fought the badger in his own earth at Painswick, Gloucester, on Mr Croome's estate. It was his last fight. We brought him back and he died in my cellar at the Oldcrossguns Inn twenty-four hours later. The badger was taken to Hanworth, Middlesex, by Phill Dee, and was matched against two Bull Mastiffs..."

    (the badger was later released back into the wild after proving itself)
     
  3. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    I dont understand how gamaness is the will to dominate,I always asumed it was the will to never give up.
    How does a dog show gameness when its dominating?
    There is no domination in dead game...
    How are terriers in foriegn soil swapping with a badgers for thier life, not true gameness...
    I notice the bulldogmen assume that thier breed(TYPE) must have a differnt deffinition of gameness then the rest of the world...WE MUST BE ELITE....
    A person that is domminated by cancer and fights to hold on,,,,MUST BE A CUR....
    How would this person DOMINATE the cancer thats killing them ????
    WHERE DID THIS NEW DOGMAN DEFINITION OF GAMENESS COME FROM???
    A REAL DIFFENITION WOULD BE..........
    THE WILL TO KEEP GOING WHEN ,and ONLY WHEN THIER BEING SEVERLY DOMINATED.....
     
  4. CajunBoulette

    CajunBoulette CH Dog

    I believe that is the definition, at least to me.

    Sincerely Yours, Cajun
     
  5. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    You didn't ask me any questions, Tigerlines. You merely twisted what I said. What I said stands. If you do anything to see gameness before a dog is mature enough, you are in the business of ruining it. Why do you have trouble with these things? Everyone but you understood what I said. Think about that. Your statements that things can be detected in pups that will come about in adult life are seriously errant, and misinform the younger and less experienced people who are interested in doing the right things with these dogs.

    Your statements on the AI thread, for instance. I have called for you to show PROOF of what you stated, and that you so vehemently stand behind; many others have, also. You have yet to even attempt to do so. You merely refuse to comply, and assert on level ground, and instead, try to rearrange the crux of the issue. Perhaps you should try to be a little less condescending to the younger people, thinking the dogma you read is conclusive and teachable as fact, instead of giving them splintery bones to choke on as they go along.

    Another point to enlighten you to is that many believe that some dogs are born with all the essentials to be game. Born game, as some put it. BUT...........you nor anyone else can see it, nor should you attempt to see it until maturation. Gameness should not be witnessed before that time, and if you say you have seen it, you have done wrong by your dog, or you have no idea what gameness really is, nor do you understand why maturation is a must in order to see it manifested. All you can do in the interim is ruin the dog and disallow it showing what it was born to be. It's wonderful to read and gain knowledge about many aspects of science. I encourage it. But to abide by pure dogmatic conjecture by your favorite authors is to absolutely and without proper deductions, go the way of the drone. I believe I would be safe in wagering, and so would most all of the people who find theoretical conjecture, to be without proof, that none of your authors have ever bred one game bulldog. If you think that premise is crude to your intellect, then just ask a thousand people whether they would ask Bill Boylan, Phillip Dee and Joe Mallen as to how to breed and maintain game dogs, or if they would ask John Colby, Maurice Carver and Joe Corvino.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2014
  6. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    Elias, I said gameness is the WILL to dominate. I didn't say it was the act of dominating. That's where the difference is. The less bending that WILL is, the closer to game a dog is. The will to never give up is the same thing. The will to dominate is the same as the will to NOT BE dominated. This is why you cannot see gameness on top. You can see domination, ability, all the talents there are on top, except gameness.
     
  7. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Very well said TDK !
     
  8. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Really?

    Heres my actual words:

    Question 1:"If gameness is will to dominate,why do some dogs show no desire to dominate anything but are more than prepared to show indomitable will when asked"

    Question 2:"You state gameness is slow to mature,on what biological physiological and genetic basis

    Question 3:" list these APBT that have imposed their will to dominate into nature,pound for pound,in its own earth"

    Your Question: "putting words in my mouth again Tiger"....ive never replied to a post by you before in my entire life,so your statement is a contradiction.

    Stating you can ruin a young dog is another strawman, you stated "gameness manifests itself in late maturity" and "you do not develop it at some young age".........your equating age and maturity,as well as will to dominate and indomitable courage.

    A cold dog will show courage without the slightest will to dominate anything, as do many proven dogs.

    They have a difference in temperament.

    The root of game,gameness,gamer,gamest, and gamester, have nothing whatsoever to do with domination.

    To state resisting domination as will to dominate,is equivalence between dominated an the dominator, which is illogical.

    Their isnt any words from me stating gameness can be detected in a pup.

    The words by Arthur Heald show a 6 month old pup will show will to dominate,which clearly isnt gameness.

    Who hasnt bred one game bulldog?....the authors i listed bred original proven game Pit Bull and Terriers, from a direct ancestry to real bullbaiting dogs.

    Ill answer AI on the AI thread, as per forum rules.
     
  9. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    Well, within that garble, you made reference to courage being different from gameness. A contradiction of what you said earlier.

    The reason you aren't questioning me is that I am not the one coming on here making claims from someone's dogmatic reading material. I have nothing to answer. WE are questioning your sources and any semblance of proof in what you profess. Let's get that straight and you can stop twisting the crux and meaning of the crap you try to spread. It's unfounded and unproven. So perhaps you can stop evading being asked to show PROOF of what you say so vehemently and put the load on someone who has not done such. It's just a weak evasion by you.

    You keep stating what gameness is and isn't and you have shown time and again that you have never experienced it, nor do you have the slightest fathom of what it is. Trouble making, based on someone's written yet unproven theory is not knowledge and it shows the narrowness of your intellect in actuality.

    Your making a sorry, weak effort to put words in the mouths of others, and twist the meaning of what we say IS NOT the same as asking me anything. I've proved your rebuttals wrong. Most anyone who has experienced the sight of gameness knows how without knowledge, logic or substance your claims are. In plain terms............you just continue to prove you know nothing about it.

    Ramble on and keep trying to manipulate fact by twisting text and the crux of the matter if you like. You've been handed your rope. Now use it to prove the rest of the world of bulldog owners are wrong and you are right..........based on not only your unproven theoretical garble you have read, but in your constant feeble attempts to evade proving anything and trying to put it on another.

    It's you vs. a large number of knowledgeable and highly experienced people in here. You alone. You cannot fathom the reason? You cannot fathom why NO ONE on this board has ever asked for your advice about anything? I don't know what is missing in your life, your soul, your make up, and in your ability to understand practical truths for you to feel the need to agitate others so boorishly, in an attempt at forcing errant, theoretical scripture upon people who know better. I'm sure it hasn't taken any genius on anyone's part to see that this is ALL YOU DO. Many would appreciate it if you could get a grip, and stop this continuum of the same old thing you do, and only ever do.
     
  10. patjr

    patjr Top Dog

    One's national heritage must have some affect on a persons mentality. Elitist commonly used posturing, one-upmanship and grandstanding, particularly towards their (percieved)subordinates.....fortunately such bullshit 'don't fly' once they ventured abroad LMFAO.....if anyone's got that attitude, best it's keep elsewhere lol.
     
  11. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    The only garbled nonsense is from you playing online mentor, courage isnt the same as gameness, a coward can be courageous,indomitable courage is gameness do you comprehend the English word IDOMITABLE which qualifies the noun?



    what are you waffling about, your the one who made the statement......i asked you 3 questions.......all youve offered is bluff and bullshit....now you think i should provide evidence for you, which is illogical drivel......you made the statement and defended it with waffle and ad hominem.

    You clearly have no idea what gameness is in any degree.......you an online mentor on a dog forum with chain dogs who references "Bulldogs" in every other posts when you never seen a real bulldog bait a real bull in your life.

    You wouldnt waffle at me offline,or bite back last, your a online moderator on an online dog forum filled with pet owners,who owns and breeds chain dogs in 2014 thats it.
     
  12. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    and TROLLS TROLL regardless...............
     
  13. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    Wow. Same old shit. Pretend you have asked me questions as to something I've made NO statements about as to the truth of the subject. I've defended nothing. I and many others have asked YOU to PROVE what rash statements, both non based and unproven, that you keep pushing upon everyone else. You haven't the right to ask me questions when I haven't vouched for any method or said anything definitive about one method or the other. Just us, asking you to provide some proof, and you can't. Simple as that. Your entire gamut is to twist and try to feebly manipulate in an aggressive manner. Well, YOU have painted yourself into the corner. All by yourself. Your twisting and attempts to thrush your deviations upon others to make answers for is weak and continual. You cannot tilt the field after all of the silly commitments you have compiled in such a mass of rubbish.
     
  14. treezpitz

    treezpitz CH Dog Staff Member


    You're clueless and obviously VERY ignorant. The more you type, the harder it is for you to deny that. I could assure you that TDK (& others you've ignored) has forgot more about dogs and many other things then you'll ever learn. You should really just stfu and listen a little, you surely don't know everything like you'd like to believe you do. I'm glad I didn't read every post because I'm sure it was nothing but stupidity like what you just said. Kudos to you, TDK for not responding back like I would have. You're a class act and a perfect example of how others in the dog world should behave IMO.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2014
  15. patjr

    patjr Top Dog

    The wannabe bull-baiter telling tales about his ancestors who actually lived it....that's got nothing to do with you or makes you an EXPERT now does it . Are you trying to claim the PAST as your PRESENT, and therefore, come on here searching for some type of acclaim because of it?

    Why and what is your reason for being here, as I see nothing from you lately but VANITY.
     
  16. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua

    Anyone that is anyone in this dog game has heard of TDK and know that he is legit.

    The question is WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TIGERLINES????

    You sound like a online wanna be history buff wishing you had accomplished something with them bulldogs instead of just hearing about them LMAO.
     
  17. sadieblues

    sadieblues CH Dog

    Tigerlines Tdk has accomplished more than you obviously are aware of I don't think you realize who it is that you're arguing with if you did you would stfu and listen to the man talk. Please stop and have some respect for a man who knows a thing or two about bulldogs you don't wake up overnight with an accomplished family of bulldogs without lifting a finger to put in many years of blood sweat and tears he's been mentored by the best and has left his mark in these dogs. You're being highly disrespectful trying to tell a third generation dog man what gameness is JFC ... You need to be taking notes from this man not talking out your ass about what you think you know.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2014
  18. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    tigerlines u take these books too serious your only reading one mans views most of the time..When u start to try discredit people Like TDK ,Old Goat it's time to take a step back maybe ? And ask yourself why u would take words in a book over hands on experience ,people who have been around this breed for a long time have spoken up and tried to help you but you continue not to listen.I am only trying to help you ,,put down the books and meet people who are experienced in this breed and seek knowledge from them ,not dead men who may or may not be credible .
     
  19. treezpitz

    treezpitz CH Dog Staff Member

    Good post bama. True story right there.
     
  20. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Youve never owned bred fed or seen a real bulldog nor come from anywhere that has,your an American pet forum moderator in 2014 who cant answer straight questions without ad hominem and logical fallacy.

    The word of real dogmen from the breeds land of origin disprove your deep thoughts,and you shoot yourself in the foot appealing to Colby and Corvino,both were involved in Staff Terriers

    A cold dog has no will to dominate....so bang goes your theory,im out.
     
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