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a good 1911 out there right now at an affordable price is the Auto Ordinance guns. the same folks that make the Tommy Guns. a couple years ago they were bought out by Kahr arms, so the quality control is as good as it gets. the GI model is one sweet shooting gun that in my experience will hang with an accurized 1911 if you simply swap the sights out. the GI models sights are basic and durable(as a military model should be) but the AO guns really seem to have the ability to shoot some tight ass groups outside of typical handgun range

 

i was thinkin bout this thread before fallin asleep last night.
and i know i may catch A LOT of shit for this cuz it sounds stupid, but if you REALLY want to fuck some shit up (forget the 9, forget the 38, forget the 3880) go with a 22!!
them bitches will go in your chest and come out you ass, tearing everything up on the way!

they dont call it the "hitmans gun of choice" for nuthin!

 

if i gotta shoot someone LWG, i want them to die NOW! not hours later. not to mention if theyre high on PCP, they may not even feel a .22

 

true, but if im hit with a 9, chances are unless im hit in a vital organ ittle go in and out and i may just pull through, 4 times outta 10.

if im hit with a 22, sure it may sting lol, but its going in my shoulder,tearing through my lugs, bounce off a bone and tear up my stomach and then exit out my hip.

which sounds uglier?

of course theylle never compare to anything like a 40 cal or 357.

but its small, quiet & WILL FUCK YOU UP! lol

 

stfu LWG, youre making youself look ignorant. a 9mm loaded with quality hollow points(made by Federal, Winchester, Remington, Hornady, etc...) will hit soft tissue and expand to nearly twice its diameter(35 caliber to nearly 70) tearning a serious wound channel and will drop you in your tracks. do i need to break this down any farther for you? and BTW, where in the f*ck did you pull 4 outta ten? thin air? while bullet placement is key, thats why i practice weekly so i can put one in your eye if need be, there is a such of thing as bleeding out before EMTs arrive. and thats without a hit in the vitals. maybe you should just leave this gun thread for folks who actually know what the fuck thayre talkin about and do some homework. come back when you can quit spreading bullshit.

 

yea 4 outta 10 was just thrown out there, i have no clue what percentages are!! and kno i dont shoot at ranges, lol im not a huge gun fanatic!! but i have shot my share of pistols believe it or not.
all im sayinis id either go with that cuz a.) theyre usually smaller (easy to conceal) b.) theyre quiet as shit c.) will get the job done if hit in the torso.
i aint spreadin bullshit, if you disagree with the fact that 22's travel in the body YOUR CRAZY! lol that was my only point, i just throught the other shit out there.

 

i wasnt knocking the other pistols at all, just sayin dont underestimate the 22 just because its a small gun!
cuz if hit in the right spot your doin some serious damage!! might send dude home in a calostomy bag!

 

I've killed literally hundreds of animals with .22s,from cats to cows and everything in between.I know two people who have killed people with .22s and know 2 more that were shot with one and lived,including my brother in law,who didn't even go to the doctor with his wound..So I've seen what .22s do.Now,with that said,there's no way in this world I'd choose a .22 to carry for protection if I had another choice.The priming is unreliable,I've had more .22 duds than all calibers combined.And while you can be killed by one,it doesn't do enough damage fast enough to stop the threat.I shot a stray dog once in the lungs at a measured 109 yards with a .22.He ran 50 yards before piling up,had he been a guy with a gun he could've returned fire.Not the performance I want in a defense caliber.

I don't want hit with either but a 9mm does more damage.I've seen several .22 bullets flatten and stop against bone,where I've seen larger calibers break the bone and keep going.Short of being hit in the CNS,what incapacitates is rapid blood and blood pressure loss,you need a larger caliber for that.Big holes let lots of blood out and lots of air in.If someone is going to shoot back,I want to end it as quickly as possible.

 

Selected top performers of various duty calibers
Caliber
Load
Total
Stops
%
ARD
AP
.25 ACP
Win. 45 gr Pelletnose
182
49
27
.30
8.8
.32 ACP
Win. 60 gr Silvertip
132
87
66
.41
9.2
.380 ACP
Fed. 90 gr Hydra-Shok
89
63
71
.56
9.3
.38 Special
Win. 110 gr JHP +P+
42
34
81
.64
12.2
9mm Para.
Fed. 115 gr JHP +P+
162
147
91
.71
13.8
357 Sig
Fed 125 gr JHP
21
19
91
.62
12.2
.357 Mag.
Federal 125 gr JHP
609
585
96
.73
11.2
.40 S&W
Rem. 165 gr Gold Saber
121
114
94
.70
13.8
10mm Auto
Cor-Bon 150 gr JHP
10
9
90
.82
11.1
.41 Mag.
Win. 170 gr Silvertip
51
46
90
.68
14.8
.44 Special
Win. 200 gr Silvertip
61
46
75
.58
13.8
.44 Mag.
Win. 210 gr Silvertip
64
59
92
.81
16.2
.45 ACP
Fed. 230 gr Hydra-Shok
142
136
96
.76
13.9
.45 Colt
Fed. 225 gr LHP
30
24
80
.51
14.6

Total = Total street incidences recorded.
Stops = Successful one-shot stops according to Evan's defined limited scope.
% = Effective percentage
ARD = Average Recovered Diameter
AP = Average Penetration

 

read this study done based on LE shootings

 

gh32, i agree. 22's will do damage. the thing i like about them is how small and quiet they are. and THEY BOUNCE AROUND.

now do I PERSONALLY know of any incidents where someone was shot & killed with a 22, no.
i actually know 2 people who took a 22 and livede (one bein a head shot) so i know they dont pack a *BANG* persay, but like i said in the torso gives it room to jump around. anywhere else is likely to get logged.
i had this 22 revolver my gramps gave me, fired great everytime i shot out back.
then i had this other 22 it had a clip (looked kinda like the james bond gun) and it jammed up on me after 3 shots!!
so im not saying that theyre BETTER guns or even hold a candle to the higher caliber.
my only point was THEY WILL FUCK YOUR GUTS UP! lol
to where the other higher caliber are more then likely to enter as a marble and leave the exit wound lookin like an apple!

and Wood,
I HAVE NO F*CK'N CLUE what you just posted! lol

 

Fact is that humans are the weakest creatures around except when it is against their own kind, You can kill a person with a pellet gun if you know how to shoot right. A 22 is a fine caliber with many different uses and it's dirt cheap cost makes it very easy for you to become proficient with your gun.

With that said though more often than not you need that extra force to end it quickly so you can move out of harms way, It isn't about killing someone because if your trained you can kill someone with a pencil; It is about stopping power and creating a wound channel that will shock them enough so you can get out of there.

I shot someone with a 357 Magnum during a incident one night while I was filling up my truck at a gas station, One shot and he went down and stayed down until he was carried away in the paramedics, This is what you need in a situation like that. You need to neutralize the situation so you can stay safe and keep others around you safe, And chances are while the 22 will do a good job you run this risk during a high stress situation of not hitting right and ending up in a fire fight with someone who has a larger caliber. And another problem with a 22 and a torso shot is if the person should be wearing layers of clothes, Chances are the bullet is going to get lodged in the clothes and not even make it to the intended place you aimed at.

 

damn OT, they ain lien when they say "dont mess wit texas"! lol
your my new idol! lol

anyways a 22 being stopped by clothes? ive never heard of ANY bullet being stopped by fabric (other then kevlar) not even bb guns, much less 22's lol
but if you say so you been around a lot longer then ALL of us so i aint arguing.

but lets be honest, most people here a gunshot period and theyre scattering! lol

 

but you agree when used correctly a 22 will do serious internal damage?
hence the reason they call it the "hitmans favorite weapon"?

 

thank you OT, good points made, and you did what you had to do. so many freeze up and become victims in a situation like that.

 

they call it that because with subsonic ammo it is COMPLETELY silent with a silencer. you watch to much tv man

 

i dont even watch tv lol, but i listen to what a lot of folks say!
yea 22 are pretty damn quiet already, especially the ones that i mentioned above (the james bond look alike) the barrel itself looked kinda like a silencer!

but we agree that shot with a 22 in the torso, it can do serious internal damage & not just in-n-out?

ahhh f*ck i aint gettin nowhere wit this 22 shit, i like glocks anyways! lol

 

Well what happens is if say someone is wearing a thick jacket, Then under that they have on a couple shirts and such in the winter what happens is on a small caliber like that almost all the energy is expended getting through all those layers and often the bullet will collect fabric along the way and distort and end up not even making it to the skin and such.

Oh absolutely I agree a 22 is a good caliber that will cause damage, I never would want to be shot by anything even a 22. But like Woody said it was called that because they could be made totally silent, But they could become super proficient with them as well, The pistol was small in size, And if you walked up to someone and shot them in the head at point blank range it will go in but most often not come out and it would rattle around in there and get lodged in the brain. A 22 is one of my favorite calibers and it has a variety of uses, And like the old saying goes a 22 in the hip is better than a 45 in the safe. All I am saying is there are better calibers more suited for that type of situation.

Well at that point and time I had already been knocked down but I managed to get over to my truck and open the door and get my pistol. He made it a fair ways away but I was determined to at least wound the son of a bitch, I just pointed and pulled the trigger and watched him drop. Went over there and got my property back and telephoned the police and told them to be sure and send the paramedics.

One thing that surprised me though was the police didn't really react like I thought they would when they seen me standing there with a pistol, They were calm and just asked me to hand them my pistol till they got everything sorted out. So I let the hammer back down and opened the cylinder and handed it to them and that was it. I was expecting them to react a lot differently than they did and I was waiting for them to have me down on the ground or in handcuffs until they sorted it all out, But I was on my way in not very long at all considering what happened with my pistol back where it always rode.

 

If i shoot someone i want to stop them meaning big holes with a lot of energy. 22's may kill someone eventually but there not so good at stopping someone.
22's have also been known to do funny shit and not penetrate.

 

6klub - i own that same grip... and its on a rock island too. that was one of the first 1911's i bought on my own. I don't really use it now, but it still have it. Good grips too compared to them little rinky dink ply wood ones that come stock with the gun lol


I like the 22. It's cheap to practice on and just a fun gun. I got a little cricket shooter around somewhere. 22 is a good weapon if you need to be quiet and you're up close on your target. but since most situations where you will need to be on the defense (assuming this is what u have your gun for, not offense lol ) you'll want a bigger calibur that will have some serious stopping power.

And the 9mm is going to kill someone of course... but i'm just not confident that it will drop someone at the moment of impact like some other rounds will. 9mm has good ammo, travels fast and is accurate and if you get hit with some hollows, parties over. I just feel more comfortable knowing that my 45 is a proven man stopper.

There are some advantages with a 9mm like accuracy and distance and obviously there are more guns and mags available today that hold a shit load of rounds. but im in california now so that dont give me and edge lol my glock34 held 18 though. I'm just more comfy with my 45. And ammo is definitely cheaper with your 9, i always liked the little 22 conversion kits u could get to make it cheaper at the range though. havent ever bought one though.