why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

^^^^^^ niccceeeee!!!!!!!!

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

heres a fat fcuker thats sits in my yard, lol!

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Think you'll find they started out life in USA the same way pit dogs did, on the very same boats.

They've only been called AB's since the 70's when JDJ and Alan Scott registered them, before that they were known just as Bulldogs because that's the job they did as alot still do today..

My point about Colbys Pincher looking like an AB is not that daft as early american pit dogs were undoubtably x'd into Early American Bulldogs and dare I say but probably vise versa...

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

American bulldogs are a made up breed from large APBTs in the 1960s, other breeds including bullmastiff and British show bulldog have been introduced..Bulldogs that came over from the British isles PREE 1900 are now called the APBT, try find any record pre 1960 of a dog that is now called American bulldog...you wont find any as there was no such breed..R

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Here is a different outlook on the origin of the breed as we know it today.


Around the year 60 A.D. there were dogs bred in Rome called Cat-Dogs, and Bear-Dogs. These dogs were used by the Romans in the arenas to combat against bears and lions for the peoples entertainment. When Rome invaded England, the different families of the Roman Cat and Bear Dogs were imported to that country by the soldiers and were then bred by the people of Britain into what became known as the English Bulldog, a dog that is now extinct that was used to combat bulls. The different families of these dogs were then bred into pure families of Bulldogs by the English and Irish people that became known as the English Staffordshire Terriers and the Irish Staffordshire Terriers. Around the year 1600, the Roman-English people that emmigrated to the English Colonies arrived on the shores of the state of Virginia with their different families of English Bulldogs. These were bred together to create what was known as the American Bulldog. At the same time in the north-eastern part of the Colonies, those who emmigrated to New York brought with them their different families of English and Irish Staffordshire Terriers. One of the most influential people to import these families of dogs was Charlie "Cockney" Lloyd. These families of English and Irish Staffordshire Terriers were then bred together to create the American Staffordshire Terriers (not the modern day AST but the old fighting staffs). These different families of the American Bulldogs and the American Staffordshire Terriers were bred together and in the 1900's the American Bull Terrier also known as the American Bull and Terrier was created. During the 1970's these dogs became known as the modern day American Pit Bull Terrier and they are the dogs we know today. It is worthy to note that these dogs have remained practically unchanged during their trajectory to the present day. They were created by crossing the different families together and then family bred again to obtain what is today the American Gamedog.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Gringo, that is one of the best theories I've heard about the evolution of Gamedogs!

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Nice theory gringo.
But i mis the part were the terrier's came into the breeding program,

When dogfighting first was practiced the people wernt satisfied by the slow pase of the fight, alsow had the dogs a serious lack of wind and determination, (this last we kno today as gameness) This was when the british people start using terrier blood.

IMO that was a critical piece missing, between the part of the romans and the english as you discribed it.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

The name staffordshire bull terrier was invented by the English Kennel Club, no such breed before 1930s, before then they was the same breed as

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

as the APBT, that name has been on the breed pre 1900, as this what they ware called when the UKC and ADBA started up, only reason they ware'nt called Bulldogs is that the English Kennel Club robbed that name for their useless fat mut, a lot of people think terrier was never mixed with bulldogs to get APBT, this is the history for the (English) bull terrier, so pre 1900 there was one breed the pitbull, in the 1930 + 40 they branched off for showing and these dogs ware called staffordshire terriers, later changed in 1970s, to American staffordshire terrier, ....R

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

I dont really think anyone can say for sure that the game dogs of today are better than those that were first imported when matching them was more wide-spread and no doubt profitable.

you can say in theory they should be better,but comparing those old dogs to staff's isnt fair either imo because they have endured a lot of cross breeding and show breeding.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

True, the only reason it's called staffordshire is because the bull terrier name was already been taken by hinks and his white dogs.
Said it before and wil say it again, the race for recognition was the end of those lines beeing true to what they were.
The same has happend to the APBT lines as soon as the started to show the dogs only in conformation.
Get 1 that's from working stock only and you stil have the animal they had back then, jmo.
If it would al come down to the 'look' of a dog, think that there are many out there that still look like they did back then.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Elmo I have heard many different theories including what you state about the dogs not being this way or that way. However no one has ever been able to show any kind of proof of that. I think that like anyone, they bred their best dogs together and it just so happened that some of those were terriers.

My thoughts about how the breed was developed come from a very limited amount of writings and art that depicted the dogs that were being used by the different peoples of that time. I'm sure that I am missing a lot of the history but there are some things that make me believe in the general theory. I'll leave some pics of some ancient Roman statues that depict their dogs and an old writing by J.P. Colby about Tudor and the original English Bulldog in order to better show what I mean.


These are statues and artwork from around the time that Rome invaded Gaul (Brittish Isles). Notice the similarity between the dogs of old and modern day dogs.











And here is a letter written by J.P. Colby describing the original English Bulldog.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

gaul was france not the uk. the romans shat themselves when they encountered the "broad mouthed dogs of england" . the old english mastiffs. many were taken back to rome for arena sports where they aquitted themselves admirably!

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

You joker, there is plenty of records and plenty of pictures of the dogs...Maybe JDJ and a few other lines of dogs were made up how you said but there has always been bulldogs on farms in America, ie American Bulldogs...think you need to do a little more homework on other breeds.

I know of folks whose family have had bulldogs pre 1920's with pictures..and they aint no pitbulls.

The name American Bulldog was used to register them in the 60/70's maybe that's where you are getting confused ??


But what the foock would I know ey ? Only researched em for years and speak to folk on a daily basis whose familys have had these dogs for decades..

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

1920's


1885

1860

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

just a quick reply as Iv no real interest on this subject.. no bulldogs in British isles had heads like American bulldogs or British bulldogs till the show people got their hands on them, they introduced pug, this where undershot mouths kinked tail, bug eyes, wrinkles come from, real bulldogs pre show dog people ware identical to a APBT, if it warent for show people stealing the name "BULLDOG" for their ugly stocky mutt, the APBT would be called bulldog, Iv seen some of these American bulldogs, some look like bullmastiffs, st Bernards, pitbulls, hounds, depends what they ware a cross off..R

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

have to dissagree with you there R. i have just looked in j.f gordons "the bulldog"1973 ed. there is a few pics of the old dogs from the 1800s looking tall and very able ,but distinctly undershot ,not a lot different to boxers in shape only of course .the heart is a different matter of course !

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Well if you researched for years and speak to folk on a daily bases you would know that dog of yours is a 3/4 bulldog 1/4 pit

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland