Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I seem to not be understanding the purpose of "bite/protection" work. Because I look it at it as a waste of time and money, when reading others posts regarding this subject.

A dog who you have a good bond with should protect you naturally, if you are getting attacked. I do not see how a dog you raised since a puppy would watch its owner on the floor spitting out blood, being hit with a wooden bat etc. not do anything...

I can not picture an adult dog raised with u since a puppy sitting down watching one getting "fucked up." If the dog does this, seems like the owner spoiled extremely, or the owner had no real control over the dog.


So what is the purpose of bite/protection work? I must be missing something, because I dont see any logic in spending your time with bite/protection work, for all breeds. Not just an APBT.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

You would think so but typically thats not the case especially with this breed. Dogs take the fight or flight response to an extreme and most of them will run. A lot of apbt just will not bite a human. These classes help the dog determine when owner is in danger, control and most iportant imo gives the working dogs a job. nothin i plan on participating in but i respect it

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I've never done it but I suppose your talking about Sch and not strictly training an attack dog. The Sch is beneficial for obedience, bonding with your animal and working off excess energy. Gives people and their dog a fun activity to do.

If your talking about training attack/guard dogs. Then the training helps the owner and dog know how to handle a situation. A dog properly trained in protection work can understand situations better and react accordingly

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I don't understand personal protection training a dog but I am interested in French Ring Sport. Why? Because, simply put, its fun and a challenge. It's no different than why people get involved in conformation, obedience, agility, or weight pull. Some people do it to put titles on their dog, others do it to spend mroe time with their animal and build a better bond.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

The average pet will not protect it's owner, and no one in their right mind should solely depend on a dog for protection. If you want to defend yourself, get a gun.

There are sanctioned sports such as schutzhund, french ring, and PSA that focus on training dogs in bite work. These dogs are mostly driven and tenacious animals with high prey drive. The sleeves are looked at as prey and not necessarily the act of the biting a human. Most police dogs are titled in these sports before ever being accepted into police programs, and it takes many more months of training just to get some of them to do "real bites". There is more to these sports than just getting them to bite people and protect their owners...schutzhund is composed of three separate tasks; obedience, tracking, and protection. Sure there are some dogs that do take the protection portion of the sports very seriously, and who will have real bites if given the opportunity, but the not everyone participates because they want a bad ass dog that will bite on command (which many won't if a sleeve isn't involved!).

I am planning on titling my pup in schutzhund or french ring. What first attracted me to the sports is the control these dogs display and their dedication to the task at hand. I am really enjoying the training that I am doing with my dog. He is also intelligent, extremely food motivated, athletic, and toy driven. It's going to be a sport that tests our bond (I've had him since 3-weeks-old) and I think more than any other dog sport it requires major work and time commitments.

Just check out this out. It's called a "guard of object" in a french ring trial. The dog is commanded to guard a basket from the decoy. The handler leaves the trial field, and the dog must prevent the decoy from taking the basket. The decoy has three chances to try and get the basket. The dog must use it's own brains for this...no help from his owner. This is fucking beautiful and why the love these sports.

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Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

This type of training is not for the novice, it takes years and I mean years of training to get it down and even then its hard work and dedication, Patience. I've seen alot of people post their dogs working with the sleeve and they are doing the agitatating/decoy work themselve which is a BIG NO NO!!!

These dogs serve a purpose and go through lots of training, even after they have passed their trials, they might not make the final test. Very few make it out.

The most important in my opinion is Evaluating a puppy to see if he/she has the nerves to do the type of work intended. However, alot of people don't have enough experience or are blinded but "aw he is so cute, he might make it" and ends up with a crappy dog, your time and money is wasted.

Seek professional help, if you want to go the easy cheap route, thats just what you'll get

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I do not believe those test the dog to the "extreme." But I now understand what you are saying; To see if the dog will run/not attack no longer after getting whipped a couple of times. To see if the dog has courage.

I doubt this. Gotta be living in fairy land to be quite blunt to think this. If your getting pounded, no way is your dog with a good bond going to allow this. Unless its an outside dog with no real bond. I would actually bet $1,000 that your dog will bite me if i have boxing gloves going all out on you at a dog show. But then, you would probably have someone elses dog with you doesnt have a bond with you, so it wont bite and i will lose the 1,000 bet.

So the dogs are whipped while they are attacking the person in the suit to test if the dog will continue to attack when the dog is being attacked itself?

Dont really believe in the understanding situations better. Because that is not the real senses/smell as if the owner was in real danger.

The owner already knows its rigged, so her natural smell of fear to the dog are not going off.

And the guy in the suit has a different scent to the dog, because he knows its fake aswell.



If one is getting attacked really.


if one knows the thing is fake/training.


2 complete different scents to the dog...

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

That is true... Let me change the wording around. A Well-Bred APBT with a bond with you, should protect its owner if in any real danger. Not talking about "pets" such as a chihuahua who have a brain the size of my dogs testicle who dont know any better. Talking about real smart dogs who truly appreciate there owner.

Dont see why not. Your dog loves you? Yet It will watch you fight a stranger in an intense fist fight. and you are screaming and giving out fear/nervous scents to the dog. Yet the dog just watches? BS....



--- also note that im not talking about the bite work training for sports. i am training just for protection at home. i under why people do them sporting wise....

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Someone earlier mentioned fight or flight. I think my dog is going to save his own ass before he saves mine. I could be wrong; maybe I am attacked my pup gets ready to throw down and will tear someone to pieces for harming me. I'm not going to bank on it though. I cannot predict how he'd react in that situation. However when people are training personal protection (as opposed to sport work), they will use hidden sleeves and real life scenarios. Events such as someone wearing a hidden sleeve (usually unnoticeable under a hooded sweater) will run up behind the owner and grab them to provoke the dog into biting, or will approach a vehicle the dog is in and act aggressively.

edit: I think it is also for the very reason that most dogs have to be taught this behavior, i.e. biting a person for real, that this type of training even exists in the first place.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I see... Thanks for the info. Good to know I guess, if your the type of person who really is anxious and afraid and really needs to know if the dog will defend them... lol... So if the dog doesnt protect them in the scenario. They get rid of the dog?:confused: After having the dog since it was a puppy?. Seems like those paranoid folks really just need a gun if this is the case...

And also the owner already knows its fake so the dog wont detect the emotions of the person.. even if it looks real to the dog visual wise. they still can detect that its owner is relaxed.


i guess ill never understand.


The owners Adrenalin is not going to be completely 100% pumped if she knows that she is about to be fake attacked. Thus, the dog will pick this up and wont do nothing.

Just like my dog. My brother and I can box each other. And my dog knows that we are just fooling around...He detects, that our emotions are not letting out a "danger" scent.... He can detect this.


But have some stranger mess with me and make my fear/danger scents go off and my dog will most likely rip his skin open

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

You bring up good points. Again why I won't trust my dog to protect me, no matter what training he is provided with lol

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I don´t know if we are talking about APBT´s or dogs in general.

I don´t understand people who gets an APBT to use and train it for so called protection. Why not a German shepherd or Doberman or another breed for the purpose?

It is disturbingly near to buy a pitbull because of low self esteem. I am not aware of any protection bred pitbulls. No wonder the public have come to think of pitbulls as large dominant humanblood thirsty creatures used by people who needs a dog to hide behind. No need to make it any worse than it is. We don´t need that.

And, someone said, a well bred pitbull will protetc its owner, I don´t see how it has anything to do with if it is well bred or not. A well bred German shepherd perhaps or a rotweiler or some other "guard" dog sanctioned by the society... I think rather few apbt´s are suitable for it. Either it has´nt any talent for it or if it has, you have to be _very experienced to control it.
This breeds situation is to severe for toying around with.

Pitbulls should not be used for these activities, generally. Something like.. perhaps you have the wrong breed then. If another breed is much more suitable for the activitys, why not get something else from the beginning.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

The MAIN reason people do this training (PP & SCH.) is to give the dog a purpose and something to do. APBT's were bred for [] and guardian breeds were bred to guard.

Another thing with this training is only a small amount of independent thinking is encouraged at first so that the dog is focused on the handler. A lot of times it's just the dog pleasing the owner.

With this training you can take a fear biter and turn it into a dog that knows when it is appropriate to put it's mouth on someone. You can also train a dog to bite - I know it sounds silly but a lot of dogs don't go with a full grip until they have had their confidence boosted enough to know that they are going to have to give it their all and not get injured (lack of gameness????).

If I have a dog that loves me and we have that great bond (I do actually lol) and he is sitting there while I'm waiting for a bus and an old friend creeps up and scares me I want my dog to wait for my command to act or know when it is the right time. If you do not train a dog how to act and when to bite THIS IS WHEN ACCIDENTS HAPPEN.

Smell has very little to do with it and body language and facial expressions have a lot more say in how the dog will react. A good PP dog will be trained to use it's sight and ears before it's nose to determine whether something is a threat.

Hope This helps.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Yeah, I think most of the excuses for this kind of foolishness are already well known, for me at least. Perhaps with exception of the part about fearbiters...

Is that the kind of dogs used for "protection"? I will not tell you what I really think you should do with a notorious fearbiter or a dog that bites when a good friend shows up as described, but keep it away from people first of all.
Leave that part to the breeds especially made for it. We don´t need it.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

K pbs- I don't think that all protection dogs are fear biters at all, all I was saying is I have seen how a dog can be turned from an animal scared of anything (bad breeding and poor socialisation) turn into a beautiful proud dog that only wishes to please his owner.

If I had a fear biter I would cull it straight away and perhaps stay away from that line of dogs all together who knows?

PP and SCH. are very different as has been stated above, however they have similar results - a happy healthy dog that is worked and feels as if it has a purpose.

I do not think Bull n terrier breeds should be used for this purpose as it is not what they were bred to do. If I was ever going to match a dog I wouldn't go and buy myself a border collie so why put a dog that has been bred away from human aggression as much as possible (by responsible breeders anyway) and then try and change it, NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT IS AT IT.

I showed my sister a vid of an amstaff doing SCH. and the first thing she said is "LOOK AT THAT VICIOUS FUCKING THING, PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO OWN THEM!" Now I know that this dog is well trained and doing a very good job at what it has been asked to do but the general population would only see it as a chance to advocate some racism oh sorry I mean BSL.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I pretty much agree with your last post mw.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

^
Thank you button!

Jelet, the average dog, pitbull or chihuahua or gsd or mongrel, will absolutely NOT protect its owner against an attack. The average dog is not Rin Tin Tin or Lassie. There are many owners of high titled schutzhund dogs bragging about how their dog would protect them against a mugger or a thug, but when those dogs get tested "for real", they (the dogs) simply run for it. Some will bark and others take the opportunity to wander off and look for a rabbit.

Schutzhund, French ring, and so on will not turn your dog into a "police dog". If the dog protects you nonetheless, good for you (or bad for you, depends on the legislation...).

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

your statement right here shows your level of knowledge, and experience w/ this breed..or any breed of dog for that matter. and that is that you have very little

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Agreed A well bred APBT should never be (human agressive). When will people get it these dogs are AND OWNERS are gonna ruin it for the rest of us...

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

we got one that wont just bite someone but if you upset me or esp moma he will protect without hesitation,if you come in without us there good luck.thats the reason he is still living he gaurds my spot.i wont have any more like him in my house/yard.he was not trained to attack.i dont believe a pitbull should be trained to bite at all.if thats what you want then a shepard or rot or dobbie is better suited.