Common Disputes

[tommy3]

There seems to be alot of anger from non-gamedog owners towards the members of this board that is here to preserve the breed and the other way around. I am hoping that this thread can be a source for people to discuss many of the issues that arise concerning common disputes.

Everything following is from my view. I am sure there other veteran members that may feel differently. Feel free to express your views as adults. We are all grown ups and should not resort to put downs and insults. It will never get our points across.

DISRESPECT
It seems to be a common issue that people are upset that various members may occasionally "disrespect" their dogs. The truth is, the people that do so are making these comments because we desperately want to preserve the breed and many of the people joining as of late do not share the same goal. Therefore, breeding and condoning the breeding of dogs that are out of standard. Negative comments, although harsh, are meant to be nothing more than a plea for people to stop breeding and buying dogs that are becoming a burden for us and the general population. We do understand that dogs of game lines are often too much for most people. But, that is no reason to go out and alter a breed for your liking. Please, get a dog of a different breed if you can't handle them. If you can't handle the whole package and you like the look, get an amstaff. They are purposely bred to keep the look but to be less high maintenance and please call them as what they are.

BREEDING
I have seen a few posts that make references to many of the game line owner's views of breeding as being biased. It has been said that we condone the breeding of our style of dogs and do not condone any other.
For the most part, we do not condone the breeding of dogs period. There are too many out there already. But, if you do breed it should be a breeding that will benefit the breed as a working dog. Not a pretty dog. We definitely do not condone breeding of dogs that are prone to be a problem to society (i.e. dogs bred for looks only). As it has been stated before, most members do not have an issue with people who breed their dogs for show or other purposes as long as they call them what they are.

ATTITUDE
There has been constant unnecessary bickering on both sides of the fence. If our veteran members word things differently, new members may take note. No one wants to listen to someone that is rude. If the new members actually listen (instead of immediately taking offense) you may learn something. Most of the members that do make comments concerning new members dogs have been around these dogs for many years, if not most of their lives. They have a wealth of knowledge and live for these dogs and not make a living off of them. We take our breed very seriously and we get upset when we see someone who is contributing to the downfall of our breed (especially those who know it but continue to do so). But, we can learn to tread lightly and it may help to raise the amount of knowledge new members take in.

****There are many other topics that could/should be discussed. Please feel free to post them in a respectful manner and try not to go too far off base. No one likes a smart a** and a smart a** never gets their point across. Let's be adults.****

[B]

You hit the nail on the head! Thanks :)

B

[Scotsman]

Good post TommyT.

[NORTH]

Could'nt agree more.........

[Saiyagin]

Well said TommyT this should be put in the newbies section for them to read.

[PADogman]

Nice post couldnt have said it better

[mike333]

Sorry to post on this so late but this is a great thread.

[SFK]

Excellent post & points made. I too am guilty of being rather abrasive at times. But Dammit, Ignorance can be so frustrating!

[jawbones]

Good post Tommy

[pulldoginks]

How so very try. Good post tommyt.

[Bakercloud]

Great post, and as a new member I am trying to cover as much discussion as possible before posting threads.

[lockjaw]

thank you...dogs are like their owners lets set a good example...

[dianabol]

Excellent post & points made. I too am guilty of being rather abrasive at times. But Dammit, Ignorance can be so frustrating!

SFK SAID IT ALL!

[chinasmom]

;) You said it! Rep points for you!!! Even though I am a newbie here!!

[laurajean]

I have no problem with responsible experienced people breeding dogs to be "game". The problem here in California is ignorant irresponsible people breeding dogs for money, abusing the dogs, letting the dogs run loose in the street without shots or any sort of training, ill-fed, ill-housed(if they aren't just chained in the front yard and beaten and neglected.) This is not just so-called "breeders" of pit bulls, but also Rottweilers, and other "macho" breeds. These people are destroying a wonderful type of dog because they don't know what they are doing...
A dog aggressive dog is a special responsibility...
Thanks for the post, I'll try not to take offense at any comments people may make. I am here to read all the good advice and take with a grain of salt some of the not-so-good advice.
Like someone said.."consider the source".
Good post, I don't wish to offend anyone, just here to listen and learn and throw in my two cents

[deepgamepitbull]

true, true..

[K_BHOY]

As a newbie that was a very good read & I like to learn as much as I can keep up the good work Guys & Gals

[IRISH]

good post tommy

[D'dizzle]

Couldn't have been put any better.

[Suki]

VERY much agree. Thought this way, myself=seemed kinda foolish and petty, being that what brings us all here, is the love of the breed itself=whether that be pet bull, or game.

Life is short=may you ALWAYS be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.
Good post. Very thought provoking and insightful.
needed to be said...

[YoungLion]

this is truly a gread thread.

i would like to piggyback off the original post. i am a new member but not new to gamedogs. i am young so i have great respect for my predicessors.i admit i have a lot to learn and i dont expect to arrive to the point where i will be all knowing concerning any topic so with these things in mind i post.


1.FAD

fads by definition are practices or intrest followed for a TIME with Exaggerated Zeal.

now all fads will eventually fade away.they may even return but in the meantime how is it impacting those who are involved.now i may be a new member but i no THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN so if its happening now its happened before. so these fads concerning our breed are not alarming but they are destructive and painful to helplessly watch. i remember when people in my area only wanted RED NOSED PITBULLS and after that fad faded we were lefted with poorly bred dogs,dogs with no good homes,and dogs in the wrong hands.these fads may not last but who is affected? everyone who owns a Pitbull or so called pitbull will eventually pay the price for the actions done out of zeal without knowledge. wich brings me to another point.

2.ZEAL

by definition zeal is a eagar pursuit o an intrest.

now being entusiastic about a breed is not wrong but to just have passion is not enough.this is were i relate to alot of newcommers. by nature i am a very passionate person and can be over zealous. granted the first pitbull i ever got was a gift and it was this dog who sparked my ferver for these dogs and once i Turned on that was it . i did a lot of reading and asked questions but at the time i got a lot of MISINFORMATION from MISINFORMED PEOPLE. so i operated on this misinformation untill i got a hold of some good info and talked to more Kowledgable Dogmen.

if time would permit and i thaught people actually cared about my opinions i would touch on MISINFORMATION and TRADITION, and ,STANDARDS

there are endless points and common disputes. i will continue to read and ask questions. i must remain teachable or I WILL STOP LEARNING. those who have experience please share with us newcommers regardless of want it looks like some of us care about the OLD ways Old blood and the traditions of OLD. GOD bless all who read.

[SouthernDixie]

Great post younglion

[tommy3]

this is truly a gread thread.

i would like to piggyback off the original post. i am a new member but not new to gamedogs. i am young so i have great respect for my predicessors.i admit i have a lot to learn and i dont expect to arrive to the point where i will be all knowing concerning any topic so with these things in mind i post.


1.FAD

fads by definition are practices or intrest followed for a TIME with Exaggerated Zeal.

now all fads will eventually fade away.they may even return but in the meantime how is it impacting those who are involved.now i may be a new member but i no THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN so if its happening now its happened before. so these fads concerning our breed are not alarming but they are destructive and painful to helplessly watch. i remember when people in my area only wanted RED NOSED PITBULLS and after that fad faded we were lefted with poorly bred dogs,dogs with no good homes,and dogs in the wrong hands.these fads may not last but who is affected? everyone who owns a Pitbull or so called pitbull will eventually pay the price for the actions done out of zeal without knowledge. wich brings me to another point.

2.ZEAL

by definition zeal is a eagar pursuit o an intrest.

now being entusiastic about a breed is not wrong but to just have passion is not enough.this is were i relate to alot of newcommers. by nature i am a very passionate person and can be over zealous. granted the first pitbull i ever got was a gift and it was this dog who sparked my ferver for these dogs and once i Turned on that was it . i did a lot of reading and asked questions but at the time i got a lot of MISINFORMATION from MISINFORMED PEOPLE. so i operated on this misinformation untill i got a hold of some good info and talked to more Kowledgable Dogmen.

if time would permit and i thaught people actually cared about my opinions i would touch on MISINFORMATION and TRADITION, and ,STANDARDS

there are endless points and common disputes. i will continue to read and ask questions. i must remain teachable or I WILL STOP LEARNING. those who have experience please share with us newcommers regardless of want it looks like some of us care about the OLD ways Old blood and the traditions of OLD. GOD bless all who read.Good post. Thanks for adding your input to the thread.
Come on folks. I am sure there are plenty of other things that could be added to this topic....

[c.knight]

good post homie

[newbieturtlepits]

There seems to be alot of anger from non-gamedog owners towards the members of this board that is here to preserve the breed and the other way around. I am hoping that this thread can be a source for people to discuss many of the issues that arise concerning common disputes.

Everything following is from my view. I am sure there other veteran members that may feel differently. Feel free to express your views as adults. We are all grown ups and should not resort to put downs and insults. It will never get our points across.

DISRESPECT
It seems to be a common issue that people are upset that various members may occasionally "disrespect" their dogs. The truth is, the people that do so are making these comments because we desperately want to preserve the breed and many of the people joining as of late do not share the same goal. Therefore, breeding and condoning the breeding of dogs that are out of standard. Negative comments, although harsh, are meant to be nothing more than a plea for people to stop breeding and buying dogs that are becoming a burden for us and the general population. We do understand that dogs of game lines are often too much for most people. But, that is no reason to go out and alter a breed for your liking. Please, get a dog of a different breed if you can't handle them. If you can't handle the whole package and you like the look, get an amstaff. They are purposely bred to keep the look but to be less high maintenance and please call them as what they are.

BREEDING
I have seen a few posts that make references to many of the game line owner's views of breeding as being biased. It has been said that we condone the breeding of our style of dogs and do not condone any other.
For the most part, we do not condone the breeding of dogs period. There are too many out there already. But, if you do breed it should be a breeding that will benefit the breed as a working dog. Not a pretty dog. We definitely do not condone breeding of dogs that are prone to be a problem to society (i.e. dogs bred for looks only). As it has been stated before, most members do not have an issue with people who breed their dogs for show or other purposes as long as they call them what they are.

ATTITUDE
There has been constant unnecessary bickering on both sides of the fence. If our veteran members word things differently, new members may take note. No one wants to listen to someone that is rude. If the new members actually listen (instead of immediately taking offense) you may learn something. Most of the members that do make comments concerning new members dogs have been around these dogs for many years, if not most of their lives. They have a wealth of knowledge and live for these dogs and not make a living off of them. We take our breed very seriously and we get upset when we see someone who is contributing to the downfall of our breed (especially those who know it but continue to do so). But, we can learn to tread lightly and it may help to raise the amount of knowledge new members take in.

****There are many other topics that could/should be discussed. Please feel free to post them in a respectful manner and try not to go too far off base. No one likes a smart a** and a smart a** never gets their point across. Let's be adults.****

this thing needs one more run thru ......

[squirt07]

Good thread Tommy. Interesting read. Made lots of sense to me.

[LuvinBullies]

Good post. Thanks for adding your input to the thread.
Come on folks. I am sure there are plenty of other things that could be added to this topic....Howz about- read all or at least most responses to threads/posts before making any knee-jerk replies to a post you feel strongly about...often another member can word a response in a such a way that allows you to see both sides of an issue you only knew one side of. We tend to shut the learning process down when we engage in back and forth debate without exploring how others interpret issues. Just my two cents and I have certainly been guilty of going into debates only half cocked- but I have found it does help to see things from all sides before I just jump into heated discussions and start rapping. JMHO.

[tommy3]

Howz about- read all or at least most responses to threads/posts before making any knee-jerk replies to a post you feel strongly about...often another member can word a response in a such a way that allows you to see both sides of an issue you only knew one side of. We tend to shut the learning process down when we engage in back and forth debate without exploring how others interpret issues. Just my two cents and I have certainly been guilty of going into debates only half cocked- but I have found it does help to see things from all sides before I just jump into heated discussions and start rapping. JMHO.
Great point! Thanks for adding some input.

[lockjaw]

it is easy to see flaws in others..i dont comment on non gamebred pitbulls because i have not owned one..and it should be the same way around.

[bigcespits]

Good point

[davidlau_2002]

i own both and have had more exposure to bullies than gamebred's previously. i discovered gamebreds through my studying on pitbulls and their history. i am never offended by people's comments about blues or bullies. frankly, i don't give a sh!t what people think about my blue because they don't feed him. now i own both and they are admittedly two completed different animals in my opinion.

[mydawgs]

i own both and have had more exposure to bullies than gamebred's previously. i discovered gamebreds through my studying on pitbulls and their history. i am never offended by people's comments about blues or bullies. frankly, i don't give a sh!t what people think about my blue because they don't feed him. now i own both and they are admittedly two completed different animals in my opinion.
reps to ya, you must have a WISE mentor....;)

[Envy's Mom]

I am also a young one, but I've been here about a year and I've been involved with this breed going on 8 years. This means I am still new to the breed as well. People come on this site excited to have a place to talk about pit bulls. Problem is they come misinformed and passionate about what they believe. Its not thier fault they were misinformed and in a lot of cases if people are kind and take time to explain the truth vs the myths people could be persuaded in your favor.

I too thought the bigger the dog is the better. I would not have believed you could have a 30lb game dog 5 years ago after 3 years of experience with these dogs. Now I read and research and make phone calls to strangers to talk and learn about dogs. (sorry Attila, Jack, etc...) and I am open minded about what people say. Years ago I was not like this. This breed made me the way I am. I live for these dogs and that is where we encounter problems. This breed brings out the best and worst in people. People are passionate about what they believe, but they believe myths and what the media portrays. I would have faught you tooth and nail if you tried to tell me you had a 30lb game dog years ago. Now that is the style I want. The original standards, what these dogs came from.

Please understand when you see these newbies asking dumb questions that they were misinformed by some one who was misinformed. Please take time like most of you did with me to explain the truth about these dogs. At least they are in a good place to get good info now. These dumb people are going to live longer than the rest of us and I would rather inform the young ones that will be around to explain to the young people of tommorro what the truth is about these dogs. I know I had good people be patient with me.

To the newbies: Just be open minded and realize that you were misinformed like the majority of the population and media are about these dogs. You may learn to love the breed even more once you know the truth.

" i will continue to read and ask questions. i must remain teachable or I WILL STOP LEARNING. those who have experience please share with us newcommers regardless of want it looks like some of us care about the OLD ways Old blood and the traditions of OLD." -sorry I stole this quote from some one

[NOLEFAN]

I agree for the most part. My only problem is that people get bent out of shape when someone post a picture of an APBT dressed up and being a couch potato and then there are threads about American bully breeds, aka MUTTS. I find it funny that the petbull thing gets more flack than people on here who post mix bred mutts. I understand the argument and agree that petbulls shouldn't breed if that is all they are, but as far as the bully folks comin here, I would think there would be more outrage about that. One argument is about what one should do with their dogs, but the other is an argument about a totally different "breed" all together. You can't get mad and say petbullers are ruining the breed by destroying the gameness, and then want to talk seriously about mutts that have never been game.
I just don't see how people can give a pass to KNOWN MUTTS being posted and discussed on this site and then raise hell about a member who doesn't work there APBT like someone thinks they should. I would have a petbuller that was at least game-bred any day than a mutt.


I have learned alot on this site and continue to, but I only talk to a select few about anything because some people here are not socially sophisticated enough to carry on a real dicussion without gettin an attitude, just read some of the threads lately. What I am sayin is that we should all strive to not let the fire starters get everybody arguing. IMO I think some that get pissed off about the cute things being allowed are just a bunch of wannabes who just can't help but incriminate themselves by their need to talk tough and be macho. Why else do you think bully owners like to hang out on game-dog sites and try their best to attatch the name PITBULL to there mutt.

[Old Timer]

this is truly a gread thread.

i would like to piggyback off the original post. i am a new member but not new to gamedogs. i am young so i have great respect for my predicessors.i admit i have a lot to learn and i dont expect to arrive to the point where i will be all knowing concerning any topic so with these things in mind i post.


1.FAD

fads by definition are practices or intrest followed for a TIME with Exaggerated Zeal.

now all fads will eventually fade away.they may even return but in the meantime how is it impacting those who are involved.now i may be a new member but i no THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN so if its happening now its happened before. so these fads concerning our breed are not alarming but they are destructive and painful to helplessly watch. i remember when people in my area only wanted RED NOSED PITBULLS and after that fad faded we were lefted with poorly bred dogs,dogs with no good homes,and dogs in the wrong hands.these fads may not last but who is affected? everyone who owns a Pitbull or so called pitbull will eventually pay the price for the actions done out of zeal without knowledge. wich brings me to another point.

2.ZEAL

by definition zeal is a eagar pursuit o an intrest.

now being entusiastic about a breed is not wrong but to just have passion is not enough.this is were i relate to alot of newcommers. by nature i am a very passionate person and can be over zealous. granted the first pitbull i ever got was a gift and it was this dog who sparked my ferver for these dogs and once i Turned on that was it . i did a lot of reading and asked questions but at the time i got a lot of MISINFORMATION from MISINFORMED PEOPLE. so i operated on this misinformation untill i got a hold of some good info and talked to more Kowledgable Dogmen.

if time would permit and i thaught people actually cared about my opinions i would touch on MISINFORMATION and TRADITION, and ,STANDARDS

there are endless points and common disputes. i will continue to read and ask questions. i must remain teachable or I WILL STOP LEARNING. those who have experience please share with us newcommers regardless of want it looks like some of us care about the OLD ways Old blood and the traditions of OLD. GOD bless all who read.i agree and that is one of the biggest problems i have seen.i have had folks ask me questions on how to do this or that and on certain things i say well if your asking me this question then you don't need to think about doing what your asking me.questions vary but mostly it is on topics of breeding and it is pretty common sense questions to folks who have taken the time to learn but for those who just jump into it thinking they will make a easy fortune i never anwser.i have had questions like how long into my females heat will it take for her to get pregnant,or do i need to muzzle them and things like that.bottom line is if you don't know these anwsers you don't need to be even thinking on breeding you need to take the time to learn before you breed if what i tell them then they get all pissy and try to say i don't know what i am doing and i am a fake or phony that right there is what pisses us older keepers off and big time.then what pisses me off more than anything in the world is when you get the new people who don't know anything try and sound like they know it all then when you correct them they again start about how you don't know anything and the same speal.i never mind helping new folks out i have taught quite a few people in my day about these dogs,but you have to be respectfull and listen to what is being said.don't come asking for help thinking you are the teacher,you are the student and we are doing you a favor by helping you learn to do it the right way so you should be all ears and do exactly what your told no questions asked that shouldn't be.i know thats how i was i was all ears and what ever i was asked to do i did it and took notes.but the diffrence was i wanted to learn and i knew it was not going to be a over night process.i knew it was going to be a very long process with a very hard teacher.i remember one time i gave a little remark that he thought was smart while i was shoveling some runs and the shovel was taken off me,i was kicked in the ass and sent home.didn't get a chance back for 3 months made me want it and respect him that much more and it was for my own good.but kids today think they know it all and don't want to take the time to learn.i never mind teaching new people as long as you are there to learn and don't waste my time,and you damn well better be respectfull.

[bdub]

this should be reposted everyday

[Roadman Jr.]

Does anybody have some aloe I can put on... because after that butt whipping,..I take it ,.. that it's for the thread I put up...In no way was I saying that one was real and one was fake,..when I see one that isn't breed for "game" and I look at it and see how lean and conditioned it is,..all I can say is wow that dog is assume,.even when I see a so called bully and I look at it and say that dog looks bad as heck,..and you know they look like a boss..I like and respect every deviation of the pit bull even the game breed ones ,..I think I was missed understood or mabey I wrote it wrong,..anyway folks I apologize to everyone that I offended and I hope we can go on from here,..THANKS

[coolhandjean]

Makes a lot of sense...Great Post!

[brogers]

I am a newbe to this site as well and I have not been into the breed as long as some have but some of the advice I get from people is the biggest joke I have ever heard. I have to say I have read alot of good info on this site and I really like it. On that note about fads I wanted a blue pit for a long time I wanted the big look at the time and I read up on the breed , had some good advice about it and now I have the best of both worlds but I have to say thanks to everyone that makes the good replies and actually know what they are talking about.

[Hack]

Good thread. One of my goals is to educate others.
My dog goes everywhere with me.

I want to add that the Animal shelters in this area are filled with Pit Bulls.
Because they are looked down on, after the Michael Vick thing.

In Washoe county, Nevada. They will neuter a Pit Bull and give it shots, at no charge.

[justpits]

Hello all. I have read with much interest all the above posts. I too think there is room for us all if we are here to perpetuate the breed and not ourselves. I am careful not to bash the nongamebred owner as it is his right to own whatever he chooses, and to be honest, I don't think the common thug is here posting away while his dog is starved and beaten in the back yard or loose on the street. We all have different levels of interest in the APBT and are all here for some good reason. I actually think its sorta funny tho to hear somebody say that the dressed up couch potatoe prolly isnt game cuz, the old doggers have said,"the housepit has one more scratch in him than the outside one" Brothers, it is the truth. Take that couch potatoe and put him in a keep, peak him out and somebody better move along!!

[masta of game]

thanks for the advise... im new here...so yeah.. i will watch out