Our "Umbrella" is bigger than I thought

[misterdogman]

I wanted to do some research to hopefully show how the differences and statistics among dogs called APBT are not really fair. I was amazed at this chart I found, this chart is supposedly accepted as fact and considered fair for many law enforcement officials, MEDIA AGENCIES.. and Judges to use as a tool to classify dogs as APBT. I was so suprised to hear that apparantly if you tell an officer taking a report about a dog and use one of these names, whether is from running free to biting animals or humans...the officer will a lot of times write down the breed of all the following dogs as APBT. What the hell. Think this is fair? Gamedogs support most of this unfair labeling because most people just think of APBTs that perform or are bred to perform as being vicious, Im sure theyre unbeknownst to the fact all these breeds below can be classified as APBT in the laws eyes. Has anyone else ever seen all these breeds involved and listed on a chart like this? I am outraged. We need a vast seperation now, I guarantee BSL will lose its legs if a huge organization backed breed definition on a huge scale. If we were fair and gave performance breds, and Weight Pullers and Blues, Hog dogs and even BYBs their own registery "BUT FORCED IT BECAUSE I KNOW PEOPLE HAVE TRIED SEPERATION" and left no right to our Name as a true APBT we would save a lot of statistics unfairly used now in bite analysis and MEDIA REPORTS. They should be forced to go theyre own way along with all other breeds not bred for performance like gamedogs are. Its is the cheapest easiest way to do this to fight BSL, within 1 year the statistics of APBT bites and killings would be more accurate and defined, I guarantee most chained gamebred dogs would not be inviolved in as much bite reports and almost never in shelters...not nearly like blues, staffs and other dogs bred for another reason...even the number of street fighting dogs would be reduced naturally in shelters if we took gamedogs their own way, youd see more and more definition in what people were haveing show up as a biter or bad dog or in a shelter. I dont know I am quickly losing bias against other strains from being here, I dont want to offend anyone, but it is only fair to prevent these unfair classifications. Give Gamebred APBTs their deserved seperation and distinction now, or lose the true qualities of gamebred dogs to BSL or registeries allowing all dogs under the "APBT Umbrella" to be called APBT in the first place.



The "Pit Bull" Group includes: (parentheses include breed names that are interchangeable)
Extinct Breeds: Alaunt (3 types, ancient breed for fighting, hunting and guarding.)
Molossus (Coliseum Dogs, used for spectator sports)
Spanish Pointer and Spanish Alano (believed to be predecessors of guard dogs)
White Terrier (believed to be a predecessor of many bull and terrier dogs)
Mastiffs: (Guard Dogs used for catching and holding poachers) Neapolitan Mastiff (also called Italian Mastiff), Dogue de Bordeaux and larger Doguin de Bordeaux (French Mastiffs), Fila Brasilario (Brazilian Mastiff), Dogo Argentina (Argentinian Mastiff), Presa Canario (Canary Island Dog), Cane Corso
Bull Dogs: (some too small for guard work) English Bulldog , French Bulldog, Boxer, Alapahoola Blue Blood (Hog herding dog), American Bulldog (recreation of old style Bulldog for agility), Olde Bulldogge (also a recreation of the old style bulldog for guarding work), Victorian Bulldog
Bull and Terrier Dogs: Boston Terrier (very small), American (Pit) Bull Terrier (Registered by UKC), (English) Bull Terrier, Miniature Bull Terrier, (American) Staffordshire Terrier (AKC), (English) Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Fighting Dogs: Chinese Shar Pei (Chinese Fighting Dog, became almost extinct when western fighting dogs entered China but brought back to popularity as a pet because of it's unusual wrinkled skin.), Chow Chow ( used for guarding and as food), Akita (Japanese Fighting Dog), Tosa Inu (Japanese Mastiff)
Crosses of above: (Swinford) Bandog (American Mastiff) cross between male American (Pit) Bull Terrier and female Neapolitan,

[Scotsman]

Interesting, but not surprising, that they call all those dogs "pit bulls". The way I see it though, is the name of the APBT is changed to something else, well that name will just be added to that list eventually.
The only way to stop things like this, is to build a huge political lobby. That is the only way to counter act what groups like the HSUS (which I am sure help make that list) have done. Basically beat them at their own game.

[IRISH]

a pug is the smallest mastiff dog.
ponder that one for a second lol

[njchmin]

If all those dogs are really classified as pit bulls than all the statisics out there have really got to be screwed.
Why cant they just leave us and our dogs alone to live in peace?

[jawbones]

If I was smart enough to start my own registry and could get away with it, I'd change the name of my dogs to something to draw attn away from them. That way I could get out from under this umbrella for a while anyway.

[misterdogman]

Simple. We haven't forced them to leave us alone and let us have peace. We simply need to voluntarily remove our dogs from the public and BYBs hands. If we force out all other strains into their own group, we could easily see the truth of everything including bite statistics and cur bred dogs~ Right now, "We cant see the gamedogs for the curs".

[jawbones]

Right again mister. That's what I do already. Very few folk no we have dogs up here on the hill. I met another good dogman today and if I have my way I'll just keep trading and farming with the circle of folk I know and hopefully stay out of the public eye. I have often wondered if they wanted to bad enough couldn't they hit the ADBA and find all of the dogs registered with them?

[IRISH]

it would be impossible though there is always some asshole just trying to make money selling sick ass curs and before anybody has a comment i dont breed my dogs

[misterdogman]

Right again mister. That's what I do already. Very few folk no we have dogs up here on the hill. I met another good dogman today and if I have my way I'll just keep trading and farming with the circle of folk I know and hopefully stay out of the public eye. I have often wondered if they wanted to bad enough couldn't they hit the ADBA and find all of the dogs registered with them?The ADBA can go to hell with their handbaskets of money. Let them paper and register Blue dogs, Cur lines and other non game strains and non verifiable dogs for their shows. Let them rape the breed and charge Fees for pieces of paper. I think it would be easy to get all the needed papers from what is already out there and verifiable without them, all we need is the peds we all already follow. The old ones are easy to verify since there is so many copies of those peds elsewhere, the future litters and dogs are the important ones, we need to strictly ban all non bred game dogs from our gamedog verified circle of proven dogs, WE NEED TO START OUR OWN BSL AND FIGHT THEM AT THEIR OWN GAME, FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE.

[misterdogman]

it would be impossible though there is always some asshole just trying to make money selling sick ass curs and before anybody has a comment i dont breed my dogsNothing is impossible. The people selling dogs on the street and from a back yard will soon be surfaced, if we left them behind... they will need theyre own excuse for their dogs if we were unassociated with them. If we were on our own and in solidarity, in a few years we could show lists of our strict breedings of dogs that were proven to be non man biters and all vaccinated and healthy and out of the statistic pool for bites for those years, also only bred to proven dogs and shown to have not been open to the public since we will only breed to other proven gamedogs in our registry. It wouldn't take long to show we are not sharing and proliferating our dogs to the publics BYB dogs and causing the "pit bull problem"... If we never let dogs out to non working/sporting people they could never be accused of being associated with the dogs we voluntarily left behind and didn't breed to. Do we need these BYB and Cur dogs. No, they need us to use the name APBT for the purpose of selling their mutts for thousands of Dollars. Well they have enough blood donations from us by now to breed and to screw up all the blood they want with worthless breedings for the rest of time!!! We need to stop donating our blood to their problem by not letting game lines get proliferated out to the wrong hands and by kicking them out and going to our own grassroots

[Rocky H. Balboa]

Do you think that by removing gamebreds from public view, the image of the APBT will be perceived in a better light? I don't believe that would be the case. Remember, most game bred dogs are also great around people. It is the "funny" breeding that begets reckless dogs (people biters). I agree totally with the notion that public ignorance needs to be cur. What I cannot agree with is removing ourselves from public view. Our dogs should be shown as Ambassadors to our breed. Exposure is the key to removing ignorance. If we remove our dogs, only the reckless breeders (and their reckless dogs) will be view by the public.

Do you think these reckless breeders will stop using the APBT name if we were to go into hiding? Wrong. In fact, by the public only having reckless dogs as example of our breed, their notion of a vicious breed will be more certain. I intentionally choose people parks, parades, and other public events to show off my dog's temperament and beauty. I seek out those with fearful eyes (gestures) and give them a brief education on the myths and truths about the APBT and Staffies. I also blame most of the "people biting" dogs to mix breeding and reckless owners wanting guard dogs.

Education of the masses is the best medicine for ignorance. Ignorance is our enemy. I have educated and changed at least 10 peoples minds since I started presenting my Rocky to the public. Hopefully each of those people will change the minds of three others. We don't need Mister doing the math for us. The result is clear and simple: a better world for our dogs. The result of seclusion? The believe that the most dangerous dogs are been kept in hiding.

[Rocky H. Balboa]

Also, Where will new dogman come from if "game" breeders isolate themselves? Sure, many of you are second or third generation dogman but how can you be assured your decendants will follow your footsteps?

Doesn't the sport need new blood? Why shouldn't dog/game lovers new to the sport be accepted and educated in the old ways? It kinda reminds me of how Martial Arts was and became. At first, the old martial arts masters did not want "outsiders" to learn their ways. Eventually, they learned that truly interested people were needed in order for their passion to survive and thrive. What has happened to martial arts since Bruce Lee and other pioneers? We have MMA (Mix Martial Arts) worldwide. The sport is now better than ever.

I wish this to happen to our sport. 'Tis all!

-A young dogman in training. (well, not really young but..)

[MR PITS]

I guess I need to let the rental office know that everyone has a pitbull, for those that own dogs.

[misterdogman]

Do you think that by removing gamebreds from public view, the image of the APBT will be perceived in a better light? Yes I do. We will leave the garbage behind and show a distinct seperatin from the man biters etc... I don't believe that would be the case. Remember, most game bred dogs are also great around people. It is the "funny" breeding that begets reckless dogs (people biters). This is who we will be leaving behind. I agree totally with the notion that public ignorance needs to be cur. What I cannot agree with is removing ourselves from public view. Because you dont see the big picture. Our dogs should be shown as Ambassadors to our breed. Dont work. Exposure is the key to removing ignorance. Tried Before they are still ignorant and always will be. If we remove our dogs, only the reckless breeders (and their reckless dogs) will be view by the public. Good, then we can start mending our fences from and the holes they made it.

Do you think these reckless breeders will stop using the APBT name if we were to go into hiding? Probaly not we can just change ours and let them have the ruined APBT name, we can be the breed known as the gamedog. Wrong. In fact, by the public only having reckless dogs as example of our breed, their notion of a vicious breed will be more certain. Good we will not be there to participate, once again showing the true vicious dogs are not gamedogs. I intentionally choose people parks, parades, and other public events to show off my dog's temperament and beauty. I seek out those with fearful eyes (gestures) and give them a brief education on the myths and truths about the APBT and Staffies. I also blame most of the "people biting" dogs to mix breeding and reckless owners wanting guard dogs. Because your enlightened means nothing to others, your lucky to have made good progress, but alas, its only progress temporarily, this will not help our BSL war.

Education of the masses is the best medicine for ignorance. Ignorance is our enemy. I have educated and changed at least 10 peoples minds since I started presenting my Rocky to the public. Hopefully each of those people will change the minds of three others. It wont. We don't need Mister doing the math for us. Then who else will, we need a vast seperation now from the APBT name and supposed notions associated with it, its like trying to make the name Nazi a popular name for a food chain... like.. "Nazis Hamburgers" ...No matter how good that burger is the name will never be seen in a positive light again... The result is clear and simple: a better world for our dogs. The result of seclusion? The believe that the most dangerous dogs are been kept in hiding. WRONG, Only if bite reports dont go down, which they will if every APBT strain fought for itself and wasnt on our coat tails...if we voluntarily point out our "gamedogs" are not responsible for bites we can show the name APBT is too broad and not fair to use against all breeds its used for in statistics...

[Will Power]

Whats in a name? Changing the name of our dogs is just a quick fix, The new name will just be added to the list of dogs that already exsist. But what i think is a combination of both of your idears is what is needed. You must show the world what our dogs are really about but also seperating them into there own class. I heard there is talk about changing the name to (The American Dog)

[DryCreek]

Time to go back to the old days/old ways, where you had to work(for free) on a dogmans yard as a grunt to learn the ins and outs of being a dogman,or woman:)
And maybe,if you learned enough,you would get to learn how that man conditions his dogs.After that,you might be able to own one.Where has the honor and respect gone....commen sense and closed lips.Screw the people who want the dogs for what they THINK they represent. I don't feel COOL because I own these dogs,I am awed and humbled by them.

[Rocky H. Balboa]

...... I don't feel COOL because I own these dogs,I am awed and humbled by them.
I agree with your remark. I am awed at their individual attributes.

When you are young, you respect those who teach you the ways.
When you are old, you give respect to those who want to learn your ways because through them your ways will always be.

One cannot be without the other and the game cannot be without the two.

[JohnsonKennels]

i think we are all in for a big surprize come sep. I happen to be related by marriage to a member of the OK house. i am puttin together info for him to read when they start the bsl talk. i have spoke with him once and i have him in our corner. he agrees that in is inhuman and unethical to try and wipe out an intire breed of dogs. He also understands that it's not the dog but the owner.
IMO there should be a more harsh restriction on pits, no three strike rule. One bite and your out. not killing the dog but ban that person from havin a pit.
i know guys that are on probation do to dog things, and they can make shure they don't have a dog, so why not keep tabs on the bad dog owners and not the bad dogs. In my hood i see so many pits on front porches and in backyards, to watch over the house. they are just the bullets, but somebody has got to still pull the trigger. the APBT needs to help seperate all the other dogs(mastiff, chow ect.) dogs from being classified as pit bulls. It is American Pit Bull Terrier, not american mastiff or chow pit terrier.

[Rocky H. Balboa]

I agree with you. There must be a clarification of the breeds and stricter punishment for reckless owners.

i think we are all in for a big surprize come sep. I happen to be related by marriage to a member of the OK house. i am puttin together info for him to read when they start the bsl talk. i have spoke with him once and i have him in our corner. he agrees that in is inhuman and unethical to try and wipe out an intire breed of dogs. He also understands that it's not the dog but the owner.
IMO there should be a more harsh restriction on pits, no three strike rule. One bite and your out. not killing the dog but ban that person from havin a pit.
i know guys that are on probation do to dog things, and they can make shure they don't have a dog, so why not keep tabs on the bad dog owners and not the bad dogs. In my hood i see so many pits on front porches and in backyards, to watch over the house. they are just the bullets, but somebody has got to still pull the trigger. the APBT needs to help seperate all the other dogs(mastiff, chow ect.) dogs from being classified as pit bulls. It is American Pit Bull Terrier, not american mastiff or chow pit terrier.

[GD2]

If all those dogs are really classified as pit bulls than all the statisics out there have really got to be screwed.
Why cant they just leave us and our dogs alone to live in peace?

B/C THAT WOULD BE TO EASY AND NO FUN FOR BSL AND THE MEDIA.

[miakoda]

I don't feel COOL because I own these dogs
lol. I feel happy but oh so very poor (funny, I don't seem to make a penny from my dogs......what a concept.......)

[nappydawg]

i hear that mia all i get is lots of love and not much else weird huh but yet i still wouldn't trade em for the world