To eliminate man-biters is through game-test? Only ?

[pitbull-kid]

in the old time, there aren’t any problem with man-biters, until…. Lately, when we start to breed for show, colours or random breeding (ie family female with neighbour male) or breeding for human protection. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[DryCreek]

no test...bullet

[RIVES PITS]

EXACTLY NEVER BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU

[Texasbulldogs]

I personally don’t think, the dog “problems” can be blamed on breeders. Even the average scum BYB, still places more thought into a breeding than most ever gave in days of old. Being most of their dog’s ran loose in town or on the ranch, they got bred to anything around, with no thought of any kind placed on the breeding.

All the current problems, stem from humans elevating the dog’s “status”! Most treat their pets better than they would another human and raise them as “their kids”. Which mentally screws the dog’s up greatly. Has nothing to do with a “breeding”!

[pitbull-kid]

i know the 'bullet' is the answer....

my point is how are we going to find which one is the 'man-biter'. It's easy to dealt with once you found it, the hard part must be to find it. and it is these... 'man-biter' that always make the newspaper, as a consequence our loving breed will be band.

so what I am saying is.... to eliminate, you need to find and to find.... is the game-testing the way to do it?

[misterdogman]

in the old time, there aren’t any problem with man-biters, until…. Lately, when we start to breed for show, colours or random breeding (ie family female with neighbour male) or breeding for human protection. ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>There was Man Biters in the old day, Chinaman was a man biter, some of the best ones were, It didnt take breeding for color or show or randomness to get it in them, It was just there... and can only be eliminated by not breeding those dogs back into the gene pool. I just think back in the old days men were less likely to look at a dog that bit or nipped as a bad thing, sometimes it was because they were just hot, or because they werent socialized with people and strangers, these days its a death warrant for a dog to bite because of the bite statictics and people owning them, if everyone accepted them for what they are theyd realise when a gamedog bites its usually out of fear or excitement, nothing more, instead BYBs cause Vicious dogs that truly mean to bite people to hurt them which raises the whole statistic for the breed, these BYB dogs arent biting out of fear or excitemment they bite out of human aggression and need put down...its as simple as that.

[DryCreek]

thats the point....no game test(historically)tells you the dog is a man biter...it either is or it isn't.You will know if it is or not just by being around it.

[GaDog]

So genic's say that if daddy is a biter that his pups will also br biters even if raised in a people friendly environment?

[misterdogman]

So genic's say that if daddy is a biter that his pups will also br biters even if raised in a people friendly environment?Do genetics say if you and your mate have Blue Eyes Blonde hair your baby will...More times than not.

[GaDog]

If human aggression can be passed on by genics, then this plays right into the politicians hands. It has not been my experiance that pups from human aggressive dame, or male have any greater propensity to be human aggressive than those for people friendy dogs and litters

[GaDog]

I did not realize that physical traits were the same as behavioral.

[pitbull-kid]

Texasbulldog
I personally don’t think, the dog “problems” can be blamed on breeders. Even the average scum BYB, still places more thought into a breeding than most ever gave in days of old. Being most of their dog’s ran loose in town or on the ranch, they got bred to anything around, with no thought of any kind placed on the breeding.

All the current problems, stem from humans elevating the dog’s “status”! Most treat their pets better than they would another human and raise them as “their kids”. Which mentally screws the dog’s up greatly. Has nothing to do with a “breeding”!
while you refers to the dog in the old time, running around and free to breed, but not creating 'man-biter', so therefore by random breeding or by some breeder can't be blame for 'man-biter'..... well, I think some breeder are responsible for the 'man-biter', ie the breeding for human-protection, the SCH, ... and the rest, I do agree with your opinion.

[DryCreek]

No truely, human aggressive dog should be tolerated,of any breed.It should be killed,straight and to the point.Why would you even try to breed it to begin with.Not genetically speaking,but realistically, its not worth it.

[misterdogman]

No truely, human aggressive dog should be tolerated,of any breed.It should be killed,straight and to the point.Why would you even try to breed it to begin with.Not genetically speaking,but realistically, its not worth it.I agree man biters should be detroyed, but tell that to people with dogs like Chinaman, if they are bonecrushers or super game its hard for them to accept the fact they bite...

[pitbull-kid]

misterdogman
There was Man Biters in the old day, Chinaman was a man biter, some of the best ones were, It didnt take breeding for color or show or randomness to get it in them, It was just there... and
I agree but not totally, I know the 'man-biting' behaviour are in the gene, determine by how the gene were expressed, so they are in them, but by breeding for specific colour, or type, or show.... do bring out those 'man-biter', by breeding for specific factor, such as colour, the rest of the factor such as temperament become recessive, become second therefore by breeding them over and over, do eventually bring it out. (I might not have explain it clearly, but let me know again, I am more than happy to re-write it if it doesn't make sense)

[pitbull-kid]

Drycreek
thats the point....no game test(historically)tells you the dog is a man biter...it either is or it isn't.You will know if it is or not just by being around it. by putting dog in a certain situation, we can test the dog for their temperament side. and game-test is one of them

[DryCreek]

If breeding for conformation,show,color,etc...you should also be breeding for temperment.This would effectively cull the man biters as well,so the trait would not get stronger.

[RHI]

I personally feel, a dogs tempermant can be from either enviormental or genetics, (JMO)

[GaDog]

Yeh my daddy killed people so as his kid I will to? He did not raise me, I never met him but because he was a killer I will as well. Dont sound right to me.

[misterdogman]

I personally feel, a dogs tempermant can be from either enviormental or genetics, (JMO)They can, But you can tell a difference between a dog raised to close to people that happened to become aloof or nippy and a dog thats plain aggressive towards people... but you will change that opinion when you see a true manbiter, nothing will change a dog that is a true man biter, its genetic.

[misterdogman]

Yeh my daddy killed people so as his kid I will to? He did not raise me, I never met him but because he was a killer I will as well. Dont sound right to me.Well then your the type of person that will prolong the preservation of man biting dogs, its genetic... and a person who shows certain genetic traits does pass then down to their offspring, even if not raised by that parent, genetics are taken with you and are the only predisposition to acting a certain genetic way. ENVIRONMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GENETICS... It might not make sense but your using human rationale on a dog that dont rationalize,...EVER ...They cant rationalize...dogs cannot change what they are, and if its a man biter it means nothing if they werent around their parents, they will still be a man biter. Environment might make an animal change the way it lives but it will not change the genetic bundle it was born with.

[RHI]

They can, But you can tell a difference between a dog raised to close to people that happened to become aloof or nippy and a dog thats plain aggressive towards people... but you will change that opinion when you see a true manbiter, nothing will change a dog that is a true man biter, its genetic.I totally agree, and have seen first hand both man biters and fear biters, also dogs redirecting aggression to get to a dog close by etc. lots of reasons a dog might bite, hopefully someones expierienced enough to know the differance....

[HBK]

Well there have been quite a few alleged man biters like Chinaman and Bullyson but I've never hear direct comments from the owners as far as I have read. But if you read The Complete Gamedog by Ed Faron he proudly (at one point) notes a few of his were man biters. Zebo was probably the biggest man biter I've ever read about and it's streight from the book I just mentioned and it's first hand "source" information and not from secondary sources. Just an observation.

[misterdogman]

Well there have been quite a few alleged man biters like Chinaman and Bullyson but I've never hear direct comments from the owners as far as I have read. But if you read The Complete Gamedog by Ed Faron he proudly (at one point) notes a few of his were man biters. Zebo was probably the biggest man biter I've ever read about and it's streight from the book I just mentioned and it's first hand "source" information and not from secondary sources. Just an observation.Like I said some of the best ones were man biters...people just dont realize most of the time the biting is a fear bite or a redirected bite, I have a Vili dog that bites the closest thing to him when he sees another dog, even himself ...or your shin or pant legs..you cant walk him without putting something in his mouth...is he a man biter ...no just redirecting his gameness...some of the dogs people call man biters are really just redirecting their bite...a real man biter bites everyone...even the hand feeding him...

[HBK]

Just one more comment. Not to get off topic but I consider The Complete Game Dog to be the best dog book I've ever purchased for many many reasons.


And yes there are many factors and reasons dogs bite and it's rarely because they have a general hate for humans. Thats my un-professional opinion based on alot of reading and personal experience. If a dog does have a general hate for humans I concur that they must be put down without question. It's just too much of a liabibity to take a chance with and I don't care how good the dog is.

[SLICK WILLIE]

Heat of the "MOMENT" will cause a dog to do things off the wall. I have one that gets so worked up if I bring out the rope or move a dog around the yard close to him. Watch your legs and hands. You have to be very stern when they are like this or the sob will get ya. Man bitter he is not! Excite bitter Yes!
HBK that was a good bit of info on the dog bitters and I have read the stories also. Does this tell us something? Some of the Greats were excite bitters! They were Killers and just wanted to do what they love to do and they were not going to let anything or anyone stop them!

[DryCreek]

Like I said some of the best ones were man biters...people just dont realize most of the time the biting is a fear bite or a redirected bite, I have a Vili dog that bites the closest thing to him when he sees another dog, even himself ...or your shin or pant legs..you cant walk him without putting something in his mouth...is he a man biter ...no just redirecting his gameness...some of the dogs people call man biters are really just redirecting their bite...a real man biter bites everyone...even the hand feeding him...
and thats all there is to it....simple really....understanding dog behavior....know what is natural for them,as animals,treat them like animals,respect them as animals,learn from them as well.

[jawbones]

I personally don’t think, the dog “problems” can be blamed on breeders. Even the average scum BYB, still places more thought into a breeding than most ever gave in days of old. Being most of their dog’s ran loose in town or on the ranch, they got bred to anything around, with no thought of any kind placed on the breeding.

All the current problems, stem from humans elevating the dog’s “status”! Most treat their pets better than they would another human and raise them as “their kids”. Which mentally screws the dog’s up greatly. Has nothing to do with a “breeding”!


I couldn't agree with you more.

[jawbones]

Like I said some of the best ones were man biters...people just dont realize most of the time the biting is a fear bite or a redirected bite, I have a Vili dog that bites the closest thing to him when he sees another dog, even himself ...or your shin or pant legs..you cant walk him without putting something in his mouth...is he a man biter ...no just redirecting his gameness...some of the dogs people call man biters are really just redirecting their bite...a real man biter bites everyone...even the hand feeding him...
I just discovered this about one we raised, or I guess I should say my son discovered this. I was moving a dog the other day and this little girl went nuts and grabbed my sons calf!!! Scared the crap out of both of us. HMMMMM! I'm still not sure how to handle this. A few months ago in a heated thread I said I would kill the dog that wasn't anymore focused than this. But gosh, now I feel like a hypocrite. Anyone can walk up to this girl, perfect strangers but now we are careful around her if we need to move a dog in her vicinity. I guess I was wrong. :( I can't kill her for that. We live and learn. I still won't have a man biter. :)

[SFK]

BTW Chinaman was not a malicious man-biter. He was just very interested in getting at another dog. So he was just trying to make the handler let go. There is a huge difference between that & an unpredictable dog like Zebo.

[TabDogs]

We have had a few that in the heat of the moment will get "tunnel vision" and bite the closest thing it can reach, like mister said. There was this male Playboy that if you were to grab him up when he was focused on something he would turn around and nip you. NOT attack but as a reflex. You could not move dogs around him and be in his area. He simply would get tunnel vision and go nuts. If you use common sense around those types of dogs then you should be fine. We never got bit by him nor did anyone else. Just had to know how to handle him in the heat of the moment. LOL

[misterdogman]

I just discovered this about one we raised, or I guess I should say my son discovered this. I was moving a dog the other day and this little girl went nuts and grabbed my sons calf!!! Scared the crap out of both of us. HMMMMM! I'm still not sure how to handle this. A few months ago in a heated thread I said I would kill the dog that wasn't anymore focused than this. But gosh, now I feel like a hypocrite. Anyone can walk up to this girl, perfect strangers but now we are careful around her if we need to move a dog in her vicinity. I guess I was wrong. :( I can't kill her for that. We live and learn. I still won't have a man biter. :)She ever done it when she wasnt motivated for some reason? In my opinion a true Man Biter does it from the get go and does it to everyone, selective nipping and biting are from some type of motivation and shouldnt be confused with the AGGRESSIVE BITING associated with a real MAN BITER...IE a REAL MAN BITER doesnt need to be near a dog or near by noise or another animal, they bite for the sake of biting... if motivated though this cant be blamed on the dog, its just their drive...how could we blame the drive to perform and gameness on them so unfairly, when thats what we strive to preserve... Im glad your reconsidering, take her in the house, I bet your son could step on her and not get bit...because she will have no motivation to do so...

[njchmin]

One of the problems with dog bites is usually no one cares about what made the dog bite. All they care about is that the dog bit someone. My husky/chow mix has bitten both me and my uncle. We both got bit when breaking up dog fights between my dog and 2 others. Theres no way im going to put him down for something that was our fault. We should have been watching our hands.

To many times dogs are declared vicious when they are provoked before they attack. Nobody cares that the person was abusing the dog before they was bit or some little kid was pestering it.

If any of my dogs bites some one for no reason it will be put to sleep. If one of my dogs bit some one because they were being provoked than the dog would no longer have contact with people other than me.

[jawbones]

She ever done it when she wasnt motivated for some reason? In my opinion a true Man Biter does it from the get go and does it to everyone, selective nipping and biting are from some type of motivation and shouldnt be confused with the AGGRESSIVE BITING associated with a real MAN BITER...IE a REAL MAN BITER doesnt need to be near a dog or near by noise or another animal, they bite for the sake of biting... if motivated though this cant be blamed on the dog, its just their drive...how could we blame the drive to perform and gameness on them so unfairly, when thats what we strive to preserve... Im glad your reconsidering, take her in the house, I bet your son could step on her and not get bit...because she will have no motivation to do so...

All I can say is, You're right.

[misterdogman]

All I can say is, You're right.Im glad, But hey if that little bitch starts doing dumb sh!t and showing bad man biting signs...ill lend you my .45 ACP Ruger and a 215gr Ball. Im just convinced you will see her in a different light in different situations.

[SLICK WILLIE]

I have been bit more than I want to talk about but the fact is eveytime was my fault! This is a fact that some can't come to grips with and see that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and this could have been eliminated by using caution around the dog! Reflex you better have some or go get some if your gonna fool around with gamedogs!