APBT Hog Hunting Lines: different breed or normal evolution?

[Rocky H. Balboa]

An open question/discussion to all regarding lines bred for hog hunting.

APBT bred for hog hunting must be able to work in a “pack” environment and suppress dog-to-dog aggression. Dogs showing aggression towards other canine members are removed from the breeding program. Thus, Should they be considered a different breed, as we now view Staffies? If the drive identified with this breed is suppressed, how can they be identified together with our gamebreds? How have these lines improved or degraded the pit bred lines? What advantages do these lines have over pit bred? How will this trend affect the future of our breed? Where will it lead our breed?

[SouthernDixie]

Hmmm I hope someone knows the answer to those questions because I just recently got a pup (that cannot be registered because mom is ADBA and dad is UKC) whose mom is bred for hog hunting. I wouldn't have chosen this pup in particular but but it was an accidental breeding and mine needed a playmate (so was my excuse! lol) Right now he sure seems like a little terror but I would like to hear what people have to say about them and their traits.

[auggiedog]

that is a very good questionAn open question/discussion to all regarding lines bred for hog hunting.

APBT bred for hog hunting must be able to work in a “pack” environment and suppress dog-to-dog aggression. Dogs showing aggression towards other canine members are removed from the breeding program. Thus, Should they be considered a different breed, as we now view Staffies? If the drive identified with this breed is suppressed, how can they be identified together with our gamebreds? How have these lines improved or degraded the pit bred lines? What advantages do these lines have over pit bred? How will this trend affect the future of our breed? Where will it lead our breed?

[NuTtDoGg]

I wouldnt buy a hog dog to save my life but that might just be me.
and YES at least to me theyre a different breed that is still developing as a different type of proformance animal. if you ask me the HOG dogging lines should have their own registry with their current stock as the foundation of their breed. If the dogs arent dog agressive and the pack instincts are brought back to the surface wouldnt you agree that thats not a pitbull anymore. Also I can just imagine the negative press that would swarm our breed if an accident with a HOG dog were to happin saying the damage was caused by a pitbull PERIOD. I would call the HOG dog lines the foundation of an animal that isnt finished being bred and I would call those catch dogs "hogbulls".

I LIKE THAT QUESTION ....... ITS CONTROVERSIAL

[tommy3]

Heres my take on it:

APBT bred for hog hunting must be able to work in a “pack” environment and suppress dog-to-dog aggression. Dogs showing aggression towards other canine members are removed from the breeding program. Thus, Should they be considered a different breed, as we now view Staffies?
I think so. But, it will never happen. There are people who swear that Amstaffs are APBTs. As long as you know your dogs, you can easily identify a catch dog from a game bred dog. Just as you can tell the difference between an Amstaff and APBT.
If the drive identified with this breed is suppressed, how can they be identified together with our gamebreds?
Only a moron would call a hog dog a game bred dog You can know the difference if you know your dogs. They are often crossed with bulldog and sometimes hounds too improve strength and tracking.
How have these lines improved or degraded the pit bred lines?
They haven't improved it. But, they are more bullog than APBT now and it is pretty easy to see.
What advantages do these lines have over pit bred?
No advantages unless you like a cold dog.
How will this trend affect the future of our breed?
It won't help things. Lawmakers are attacking hog catching hard lately.
Where will it lead our breed?
It won't change true game bred dogs at all.
There can be all the idiots in the world out there breeding curs. But at the same time, there will always be people breeding quality dogs too.[/QUOTE]

[Rocky H. Balboa]

I wouldnt buy a hog dog to save my life but that might just be me.
and YES at least to me theyre a different breed that is still developing as a different type of proformance animal. if you ask me the HOG dogging lines should have their own registry with their current stock as the foundation of their breed.

I LIKE THAT QUESTION ....... ITS CONTROVERSIAL
I hesitated about bringing it to the forum but....Is it not why we have the forums? I hope old dogmen and Hog dog breeders provide their inputs on all the questions. I am anxious to read their posts (and then I will post my thoughts about the subject).

[SouthernDixie]

I wouldnt buy a hog dog to save my life but that might just be me.
and YES at least to me theyre a different breed that is still developing as a different type of proformance animal. if you ask me the HOG dogging lines should have their own registry with their current stock as the foundation of their breed.

I LIKE THAT QUESTION ....... ITS CONTROVERSIAL
What would you say their tempermants are, or are they even much different? Mine is mixed with an ADBA reg. hog hunting bred mother and a straight game-bred UKC reg. father. So far this little guy is a turd and likes to chase my cat and attack my other APBT that is oh, about 20 times bigger than he!! I didn't get him for anything in particular except for a playmate for my other one - which i plan on doing agililty with. How do you feel about mixing the two lines? Like I said, it was an accidental breeding. Would you say it would be an okay house pet??

[jawbones]

You boys need a lesson here. How in the world do you think our dogs started out? Do you think they started out as dog hating fighting machines? I think not! They begin by hunting, and need I say hunting together. The APBT did was not used for pit fighting against one another until certain laws concerning bull baiting, rat baiting, etc. were changed. Breeding for hunting in no way hurts our breed standard. I have some of the very best bloodline in the country, IMHO, Jeep, Turtlebuster, Hammonds, Indian Bolio. Do you guys think our dogs are so STUPID that they cannot be trained to do anything else? Here you go sounding like the Pit Bull haters of America and the biased media have planted a seed in your head to the point you are blind to what you are thinking in your own heart. I have an old dog that is evidently far more intelligent than you guys are giving our breed credit for and am raising others just like him. My old dog Dan will go to what ever I send him on, hog, coon, deer,etc. and is able to be called off. This guy willl dig until he hurts himself if I allow it, why, because he's game! I have others just like him, just younger. I also have dogs that absolutely cannot be hunted with other dogs but, that is because I bought them already grown off of someones yard that has never took the time to even teach them anything at all. I know I'm a little passionate here but, come on guys give our dogs a little more credit. :)

Look at these awesome bred hunting dogs. These folks have some of the best dogs in the country. And the best bloodlines.
http://www.eppinettekennels.com/mainpage.html

[LOON3]

You boys need a lesson here. How in the world do you think our dogs started out? Do you think they started out as dog hating fighting machines? I think not! They begin by hunting, and need I say hunting together. The APBT did was not used for pit fighting against one another until certain laws concerning bull baiting, rat baiting, etc. were changed. Breeding for hunting in no way hurts our breed standard. I have some of the very best bloodline in the country, IMHO, Jeep, Turtlebuster, Hammonds, Indian Bolio. Do you guys think our dogs are so STUPID that they cannot be trained to do anything else? Here you go sounding like the Pit Bull haters of America and the biased media have planted a seed in your head to the point you are blind to what you are thinking in your own heart. I have an old dog that is evidently far more intelligent than you guys are giving our breed credit for and am raising others just like him. My old dog Dan will go to what ever I send him on, hog, coon, deer,etc. and is able to be called off. This guy willl dig until he hurts himself if I allow it, why, because he's game! I have others just like him, just younger. I also have dogs that absolutely cannot be hunted with other dogs but, that is because I bought them already grown off of someones yard that has never took the time to even teach them anything at all. I know I'm a little passionate here but, come on guys give our dogs a little more credit. :)

Look at these awesome bred hunting dogs. These folks have some of the best dogs in the country. And the best bloodlines.
http://www.eppinettekennels.com/mainpage.html




I totally agree

[NuTtDoGg]

What would you say their tempermants are, or are they even much different? Mine is mixed with an ADBA reg. hog hunting bred mother and a straight game-bred UKC reg. father. So far this little guy is a turd and likes to chase my cat and attack my other APBT that is oh, about 20 times bigger than he!! I didn't get him for anything in particular except for a playmate for my other one - which i plan on doing agililty with. How do you feel about mixing the two lines? Like I said, it was an accidental breeding. Would you say it would be an okay house pet??
I can say the hog dogs Ive seen can be real nasty towards any animal not considered part of the pack. as far as temperment is concerned thats all I had to see. as far as the mixing of the catch dog with the game dog all I can say is that leaves alot more variables in your animals genetics. I cant and the breeder cant tell you what that pups gonna turn out like. just be careful and If I were you and I didnt plan to "hunt" with the animal I would definately spay or neuter it.

[NuTtDoGg]

You boys need a lesson here. How in the world do you think our dogs started out? Do you think they started out as dog hating fighting machines? I think not! They begin by hunting, and need I say hunting together. The APBT did was not used for pit fighting against one another until certain laws concerning bull baiting, rat baiting, etc. were changed. Breeding for hunting in no way hurts our breed standard. I have some of the very best bloodline in the country, IMHO, Jeep, Turtlebuster, Hammonds, Indian Bolio. Do you guys think our dogs are so STUPID that they cannot be trained to do anything else? Here you go sounding like the Pit Bull haters of America and the biased media have planted a seed in your head to the point you are blind to what you are thinking in your own heart. I have an old dog that is evidently far more intelligent than you guys are giving our breed credit for and am raising others just like him. My old dog Dan will go to what ever I send him on, hog, coon, deer,etc. and is able to be called off. This guy willl dig until he hurts himself if I allow it, why, because he's game! I have others just like him, just younger. I also have dogs that absolutely cannot be hunted with other dogs but, that is because I bought them already grown off of someones yard that has never took the time to even teach them anything at all. I know I'm a little passionate here but, come on guys give our dogs a little more credit. :)

Look at these awesome bred hunting dogs. These folks have some of the best dogs in the country. And the best bloodlines.
http://www.eppinettekennels.com/mainpage.html

All I can say is to each their own. The pitbull was never a "hunting dog" in the traditional sense of the word. And finally hog dogs as tommy T stated tend to be mixed with American Bulldogs and hounds.

oh and one more thing Im not talking about game bred dogs used for hog hunting. Im talking about hog hunting dogs bred for hog hunting.
once you take the pit away it aint a pitbull its just a bull.

[SLICK WILLIE]

Not part of the good o'l boy system!

[tommy3]

You boys need a lesson here. How in the world do you think our dogs started out? Do you think they started out as dog hating fighting machines? I think not! They begin by hunting, and need I say hunting together. The APBT did was not used for pit fighting against one another until certain laws concerning bull baiting, rat baiting, etc. were changed. Breeding for hunting in no way hurts our breed standard. I have some of the very best bloodline in the country, IMHO, Jeep, Turtlebuster, Hammonds, Indian Bolio. Do you guys think our dogs are so STUPID that they cannot be trained to do anything else? Here you go sounding like the Pit Bull haters of America and the biased media have planted a seed in your head to the point you are blind to what you are thinking in your own heart. I have an old dog that is evidently far more intelligent than you guys are giving our breed credit for and am raising others just like him. My old dog Dan will go to what ever I send him on, hog, coon, deer,etc. and is able to be called off. This guy willl dig until he hurts himself if I allow it, why, because he's game! I have others just like him, just younger. I also have dogs that absolutely cannot be hunted with other dogs but, that is because I bought them already grown off of someones yard that has never took the time to even teach them anything at all. I know I'm a little passionate here but, come on guys give our dogs a little more credit. :)

Look at these awesome bred hunting dogs. These folks have some of the best dogs in the country. And the best bloodlines.
http://www.eppinettekennels.com/mainpage.htmlYeah, these dogs started out hunting and they will hit whatever they see. But, I believe the thread was asking for a response concerning dogs that are bred specifically for hunting. A dog that is bred specifically for hunting is going to have dog aggression bred out to a certain degree. They are being bred for a different purpose. Just as Amstaffs are bred for a different purpose. Tell me if I'm wrong. Dog aggression is one of the main traits of an APBT. I have seen hog dogs run in packs and hit a single hog together. I doubt that with all of the training in the world you can train game bred dogs to do the same without the occassional fight. Maybe one game dog hitting a hog but not an entire pack.

[jawbones]

All I can say is to each their own. The pitbull was never a "hunting dog" in the traditional sense of the word. And finally hog dogs as tommy T stated tend to be mixed with American Bulldogs and hounds.

oh and one more thing Im not talking about game bred dogs used for hog hunting. Im talking about hog hunting dogs bred for hog hunting.
once you take the pit away it aint a pitbull its just a bull.
Well I'm not trying to argue but the threads title is,
"APBT Hog Hunting Lines:different breed or normal"

The world is watching us right now and we must be responsible with every thing we say and do. Posting certain behaviours and practices should be done with extreme caution.

[SLICK WILLIE]

GAME OR NOT GAME______________________________________________ __!!!

[SLICK WILLIE]

Took out my 2 cent's

[Texasbulldogs]

Most of the “hog dog’s” are down from cur dogs that didn’t work out in the pit at the time. Also this breed is useless for hog hunting in my opinion! Most of these so called hunting dog’s ride on the back of a 4 wheeler or walk on a leash, until the true working hog dogs round up a hog. Then they are released for their catching abilities. If a dog can’t perform its said task 100% without aid from other dog‘s, I don’t want it.

[NuTtDoGg]

No! Thats not right! The Chinaman line works good for hog hunting and has good drive. I have seen with my own eyes dogs from same litter bred from heavy gamedogs go different ways on working ability. The dog is taught at a young age to hit a hog or it can't be used. If the breeder breeds for gameness it can work in any direction as long as your dog enjoys the work it's doing. Some may breed for hog hunting but a smart breeder would still breed for gameness only and cull for what your looking for.
So do we agree or disagree? I said basically that the game bred pitbull can excell at any thing taught it. But I would not own HOG hunting LINES.

[SLICK WILLIE]

yawn! yawn!

[NuTtDoGg]

No! The APBT is not the same as an AMBull but are used for some of the same game's. One man's word about a breed of dog stands like you on broken glass barefoot! Not long...
I never said that the American Bulldog and American Pit Bull were anywhere near the same. and catch animals should be good for catching but a pitbulls not a catch animal but can excel in catch work. now go see what happens when you try to get an American Bulldog to do a PitBulls work.

[SLICK WILLIE]

They don't like me here!

[jawbones]

No! Thats not right! The Chinaman line works good for hog hunting and has good drive. I have seen with my own eyes dogs from same litter bred from heavy gamedogs go different ways on working ability. The dog is taught at a young age to hit a hog or it can't be used. If the breeder breeds for gameness it can work in any direction as long as your dog enjoys the work it's doing. Some may breed for hog hunting but a smart breeder would still breed for gameness only and cull for what your looking for.
Amen and Amen, some folk just don't get out and READ way too much. Until they see it first hand they'll only believe what they read online. I know our dogs can be both. Here is a good analogy: I play the Guitar, Bass, Piano, Fiddle, Banjo, (muaaaaaaah, Brings in mind "Deliverance....LMAO), the point is, I can play several instruments but am truly good at only one, the guitar. I have a dog that is good at several areas and I have dogs that are only good at one although they can multitask. It is degrading to say our dogs are only good at fighting or hunting, and not both. IMO.

[NuTtDoGg]

No! The APBT is not the same as an AMBull but are used for some of the same game's
OK.... But I still feel that the hog lines are the base of another breed.
and how would you know if a hog dog especially a pack hunter was really "GAME"? If you use a game dog to hog hunt you can only use one because I dont care what you say if that dog doesent prefer contact with other dogs as opposed to humans, cats, hogs, cows, etc. it aint a pitbull and damn sure isnt GAME. secondly the dog doesnt match the hog it is used to catch the hog. I dont endorse or condone any illegal activity whatsoever
but still believe that you cant know if your dog is game unless you test it. the same as a car that on the top speed on the speedometer says 210, how do you know it can go that fast unless you push it? you keep saying that pitbulls from game lines can be good catch dogs and I can agree with that. but once you breed even the chinaman dogs for catch qualities you will change the dogs in that program forever and you have hogbulls and not pitbulls. if it isnt a Pitbull its just BULL.

[Texasbulldogs]

“They run the hog with blackmouth curs and walkers or what ever they like that works. When hog is at bay then the one catchdog is turned lose to lock on to the head of the hog.”
Exactly why I think they are useless, the true working dogs are the ones out scenting and running/baying the hogs. It doesn’t take much effort or dog to get one that can do the “catch” part. Where as a hunter could take 3 Dogo’s and they can scent, bay, plus catch the hog (useful hog dogs). I myself wouldn’t feed a dog that was so useless it had to ride on the back of a 4 wheeler, because it couldn’t keep up or if it did wouldn’t have the energy to do its said task afterwards.

“The man I got dogs from dont keep curs and thats a fact but I guess if he has a hog dog then it must be a cur.”
Where did I state all hog dog’s are curs? I simply stated most of them come from lines of dog known to of quit in the pit many years ago. Most that use “gamebred” dogs currently only use them for “catching” which doesn’t take a “game” dog to accomplish. I’ve seen Mastiff, Great Danes, etc used for the catching part of the hunt.

“Maybe some people dont like the pitdogs and think they are cur's cause they dont like to hit a hog.”
Some I’m sure don’t like them, I myself just think they are useless for my taste. Just like I wouldn’t want/own a sheep dog that could only work/herd the sheep’s in cool weather and for a limited time frame (useless dog to me).

[SLICK WILLIE]

Amen and Amen, some folk just don't get out and READ way too much. Until they see it first hand they'll only believe what they read online. I know our dogs can be both. Here is a good analogy: I play the Guitar, Bass, Piano, Fiddle, Banjo, (muaaaaaaah, Brings in mind "Deliverance....LMAO), the point is, I can play several instruments but am truly good at only one, the guitar. I have a dog that is good at several areas and I have dogs that are only good at one although they can multitask. It is degrading to say our dogs are only good at fighting or hunting, and not both. IMO.
Bravo, Bravo! jawbones I agree! Game comes from hunting game, wildlife such as deer and hogs for you non-hunters! Wow! This word has been around for a long time and "game" meaning animals under pursuit! Add dog to it and you have a dog in pursuit of game in all the games we play!

[SLICK WILLIE]

“They run the hog with blackmouth curs and walkers or what ever they like that works. When hog is at bay then the one catchdog is turned lose to lock on to the head of the hog.”
Exactly why I think they are useless, the true working dogs are the ones out scenting and running/baying the hogs. It doesn’t take much effort or dog to get one that can do the “catch” part. Where as a hunter could take 3 Dogo’s and they can scent, bay, plus catch the hog (useful hog dogs). I myself wouldn’t feed a dog that was so useless it had to ride on the back of a 4 wheeler, because it couldn’t keep up or if it did wouldn’t have the energy to do its said task afterwards.

“The man I got dogs from dont keep curs and thats a fact but I guess if he has a hog dog then it must be a cur.”
Where did I state all hog dog’s are curs? I simply stated most of them come from lines of dog known to of quit in the pit many years ago. Most that use “gamebred” dogs currently only use them for “catching” which doesn’t take a “game” dog to accomplish. I’ve seen Mastiff, Great Danes, etc used for the catching part of the hunt.

“Maybe some people dont like the pitdogs and think they are cur's cause they dont like to hit a hog.”
Some I’m sure don’t like them, I myself just think they are useless for my taste. Just like I wouldn’t want/own a sheep dog that could only work/herd the sheep’s in cool weather and for a limited time frame (useless dog to me).
Only worthless dogs are ones standing in the Showring!

[SLICK WILLIE]

“The man I got dogs from dont keep curs and thats a fact but I guess if he has a hog dog then it must be a cur.”
Where did I state all hog dog’s are curs? I simply stated most of them come from lines of dog known to of quit in the pit many years ago. Most that use “gamebred” dogs currently only use them for “catching” which doesn’t take a “game” dog to accomplish. I’ve seen Mastiff, Great Danes, etc used for the catching part of the hunt.

I just stated that a gamedog can catch a hog Done_____________________________.

[Rocky H. Balboa]

I thought it necessary to focus on the point in the thread. Hog Lines: different breeds or normal evolution?

As the "pit bull" developed after bull bating was banned....
An open question/discussion to all regarding lines bred for hog hunting.


APBT bred for hog hunting must be able to work in a “pack” environment and suppress dog-to-dog aggression. Dogs showing aggression towards other canine members are removed from the breeding program.
Thus, Should they be considered a different breed, as we now view Staffies?

If the drive identified with this breed is suppressed, how can they be identified together with our gamebreds?

How have these lines improved or degraded the pit bred lines?

What advantages do these lines have over pit bred? How will this trend affect the future of our breed?

Where will it lead our breed?

[NuTtDoGg]

I simply stated most of them come from lines of dog known to of quit in the pit many years ago. Most that use “gamebred” dogs currently only use them for “catching” which doesn’t take a “game” dog to accomplish.

I AGREE 100%

[misterdogman]

Most of the “hog dog’s” are down from cur dogs that didn’t work out in the pit at the time. Also this breed is useless for hog hunting in my opinion! Most of these so called hunting dog’s ride on the back of a 4 wheeler or walk on a leash, until the true working hog dogs round up a hog. Then they are released for their catching abilities. If a dog can’t perform its said task 100% without aid from other dog‘s, I don’t want it.

I agree with Texas, All the true feral hog /catch dogs I seen were somewhere in the ped bred off a cur or unproven dog... a big breed cross like with a American Bull dog are used too it seems,

I would say the lines of hog dogs and Game dogs are different in different cases because I have seen them only in video, But Chinaman lines (gamebred)and what I call Cur version (popular large non gamebred type) Alligator lines and Colby lines used...to catch hogs...so Im sure both are used.... but their is a difference in some hog bred and game bred dogs obviously..., only an accurate ped can tell you in each dogs case because both strict gamebred dogs and cur crosses are used.

[rocksteady]

Only worthless dogs are ones standing in the Showring!


And how is that so??? Just because you have a game bred prospect with great conformation, does that mean you cant show them off a bit??

The only worthless dog is the one with the WORTHLESS OWNER

[Texasbulldogs]

“Only worthless dogs are ones standing in the Showring!”
I’m not a fan of “show dogs” but at least they don’t need/rely on other dog’s to do the overwhelming majority of the work.

“I just stated that a gamedog can catch a hog”
OK, big deal a “gamedog” can catch a hog that other dog’s bayed, so can a Great Dane. Still useless in my opinion and there is much better breeds to use. Not that I’d even consider a dog that’s caught a few hogs “proven” enough to breed. I don’t think it take much talent for a dog to do something like that!

[texasboy]

Only worthless dogs are ones standing in the Showring!so let me get this straight, our most extremely versatile dog, the american pit bull terrier, that can perform so many functions ie; catch work, pit work, obedience work, etc. is not capable of standing in a show ring. wow, now i believe i have heard it all. that is great. as far as going by what can be seen and not what is just read i think you should re-evaluate that comment. maybe you just havent been to an adba or aadr show. here is a picture that may change your mind http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=2600&c=3&userid=616, for those of you that don't know, Macho Buck is a bulldog in every since of the word and this pic was taken at a conf. show in libertyville, tx. there are so many people on here who constanly judge "show" dogs. any dog that is registered with the organization putting the show on can be entered in the a show for that organization. be it adba or aadr or ukc. there is nothing that says you can't show a "game" dog in adba or aadr breed standards, i can't speak for ukc because i have never been to their shows or had a dog registered through them.
adba and aadr breed standards for their conformation shows originated from the build of the great pit dogs of the past, were form meets function. so to say a straight forward honest bulldog can't meet breed standards for these orginizations is absurd. in fact an honest bulldog that does meet these standards would excel in the pit due to leverage and angles and wrestling ability that their build would give them. neither the adba or aadr will count off for an active dog in the ring, as that is the nature of a bulldog when around other bulldogs. some judges are even more likely to place a dog that acts like a bulldog over a dog that is timid and doesn't control the space he is in. so if by "show dogs" people are reffering to the amstaffs that are shown animal planet at the eukenuba tournament of champions, you should specify what "show rings" you are reffering to. it is not above or beyond a "game" dogs ability to be shown at a conformation show. JMHO.

[crossfire]

Now that has to be the most ignorant statement i have heard in a while. i guess all my dogs a worthless being they all see the showring at some point in there life being they are built nice. Here are a few of my worthless dogs that are being shown or have been shown

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3284&c=3&userid=616
http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=468&c=3&userid=616
http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=462&c=3&userid=616
http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=456&c=3&userid=616
http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=461&c=3&userid=616
Only worthless dogs are ones standing in the Showring!

[jawbones]

Oh my goodness!!! This sure took a turn for the worse since I went to town and back. I'm staying out of it now. Good luck with this thread.

[SouthernDixie]

I can say the hog dogs Ive seen can be real nasty towards any animal not considered part of the pack. as far as temperment is concerned thats all I had to see. as far as the mixing of the catch dog with the game dog all I can say is that leaves alot more variables in your animals genetics. I cant and the breeder cant tell you what that pups gonna turn out like. just be careful and If I were you and I didnt plan to "hunt" with the animal I would definately spay or neuter it.
I definitely plan on neutering him just because of the fact that he is my other dogs half brother and though the blood is far enough apart to breed, I do not need puppies right now. I want puppies when I have the room and time to be able to properly care for them. I'm hoping that he turns out as a good playmate for the one I already have. I kmow that his mother is not COMPLETELY bred for hog hunting but DOES have a lot of the blood in her. She is small and very people and dog friendly. If I hadn't have known her before she had the litter, I most likely would not have gotten one of her pups. She does have awesome blood for what she is bred for but that is besides the point. I just have a dog with separation anxiety and hope that this will at least help out a bit. Mine goes psycho crazy when around other dogs because she wants to play play play. I don't care if what I've got is not good blood or not because basically I'm just getting my other one a friend. Let's just all pray that he's not a little turn and wants to fight all the time or something! LOL. I appreciate the comment and I'd love to learn more about this type of bloodlines.

[SouthernDixie]

“Only worthless dogs are ones standing in the Showring!”
I’m not a fan of “show dogs” but at least they don’t need/rely on other dog’s to do the overwhelming majority of the work.

“I just stated that a gamedog can catch a hog”
OK, big deal a “gamedog” can catch a hog that other dog’s bayed, so can a Great Dane. Still useless in my opinion and there is much better breeds to use. Not that I’d even consider a dog that’s caught a few hogs “proven” enough to breed. I don’t think it take much talent for a dog to do something like that!

I agree that probably many other breeds can also hunt hogs, or whatever. How do you feel as a 1/2 bred hog hunting dog and a 1/2 bred game dog being a house pet? That is what I ended up with (accidental breeding by a relative's dogs) and mine desparately needs a playmate. Now I don't know why he has a dog like this in his yard unless it is because she does have good blood and there are people out there still breeding these types. What is your opinion on this? I plan on neutering him and only having him as a playmate while I work on agility with my other one. Would you say this is a safe decision?

[lilpitgirl]

I agree with Texas, All the true feral hog /catch dogs I seen were somewhere in the ped bred off a cur or unproven dog... a big breed cross like with a American Bull dog are used too it seems,

I would say the lines of hog dogs and Game dogs are different in different cases because I have seen them only in video, But Chinaman lines (gamebred)and what I call Cur version (popular large non gamebred type) Alligator lines and Colby lines used...to catch hogs...so Im sure both are used.... but their is a difference in some hog bred and game bred dogs obviously..., only an accurate ped can tell you in each dogs case because both strict gamebred dogs and cur crosses are used.
I take offence to you calling the alligator line a cur bred line unless you have actually seen them all quit. I think you should not generalize them in such a matter
and it really seems that many here are confusing( gameness) with aggression yes I know most gamebred dogs are dog aggresive but there are many that are just fine untill they are were they are sappose to be (historicaly speaking )

[Rockstar]

Two names: Eppinette and Waccamaw. That's all I have to say about it all.

[SLICK WILLIE]

An open question/discussion to all regarding lines bred for hog hunting.

APBT bred for hog hunting must be able to work in a “pack” environment and suppress dog-to-dog aggression. Dogs showing aggression towards other canine members are removed from the breeding program. Thus, Should they be considered a different breed, as we now view Staffies? If the drive identified with this breed is suppressed, how can they be identified together with our gamebreds? How have these lines improved or degraded the pit bred lines? What advantages do these lines have over pit bred? How will this trend affect the future of our breed? Where will it lead our breed?The ? I looked at the question wrong or took it the wrong way! Pure bred APBT'S but not bred for the fastlane. I was looking at the ? as if you were saying that it was not of gamelines at all. A hog dog is any dog that will catch a hog. APBT lines just bred for hog dogs is not a game I want to venture into. Can a gamedog be a catchdog? Yes! Can an AMSTAFF be a catchdog?Yes! Can AMbulls be catchdogs?Yes! I never got into hog hunting APBT'S only game lines and have seen APBT'S from heavy Chinaman/Frisco dogs do catching jobs. Not bred for catching but fastlane dogs and pulled the pup at a young age to not be exposed to the other dogs. Putting the Gamebred pup on a hog at a young age will tell you one of two things! He will cur of he will enjoy the job. Can not expose the dog to other venture's other than Hogs or the true bulldog may come out on the hunt and then you have no hounds. Sorry for not understanding the ? first time out. What I mean about showlines being worthless is if it's the only thing they know how to do then wah? I have some dogs that could stand in the ring but thats not my thing. Gamelines and gamedogs along with hogdogs come from Apbt game lines but not equal in the gameness department. I would not use APBT bred only from only catch lines just cause its bred good. There is a diff in what the hunter's are looking at other than gameness. The catchdog is A prey drivin animal. Dogs of this type in any breed trained for catching. Gamelines breeding for Gameness is Fastlane! Gamelines breeding for catching are catchlines but still same APBT lines. Branched off at diff points for some folks but not all. I think if you want a good hogdog stay with Gamebred Fastlane dogs and just train it for what you want. Why settle for less with this breed when you can have the top of the line dogs to catch a hog and if your lucky he may be the smart enough to know the diff betwn each ability he has and when its time to play rough and when its time to catch a piggie!

[Rocky H. Balboa]

Well, the tread has not gone the way I thought but glad to see some have responded. My opinion is that breeds must maintain the ability to survive and succeed in the wild. Unfortunately, I do not believe the "gamest" (as defined by the box) APBT could not succeed in the wild. Why you ask? Well, first, it would be a loner (It would fight, kill, or be killed). Second, it could not reproduce (due to its drive to fight being stronger than the drive to reproduce). Thus, this strain of dog is unnatural. Please don't assume they are the only breed that would be considered 'unnatural'. I am sure dogmen can think of other breeds that would be unable to survive if "let loose" in the wild.
<O:p</O:p

It may be true that Hog hunting APBT were chosen from less (box) "game" samples of the breed. What is not considered is that genes (genetics) are a funny thing. Even if many of you disagree, I believe that if you have a pack of cur APBTs let loose in a jungle and came back 10 year later to see the result, you will find many of the dogs produced while in the wild to be much more game than the original sample. This is survival of the fittest. Look at the dog's ancestor, the Wolf. They are very tough canines and would whoop many box tested APBTs. The difference is that the drive of the wolf is not on overdrive. They are able to work in a social rank order. This is where the Hog hunting line comes in. I believe if the gamest (box) dog was bred to the gamest (hunting) dog, and this intend was repeated several generations, the result would be the truest form of the breed. I don't believe a dog needs to ignore all the other senses and natural instincts to be THE GAMEST. Where will this sort of diviation lead our breed? Hopefully, to a more rounded breed were each kennel could have packs of game dogs in a pecking order. Sure, it sounds odd to say but it could happen.

[SLICK WILLIE]

And how is that so??? Just because you have a game bred prospect with great conformation, does that mean you cant show them off a bit??

The only worthless dog is the one with the WORTHLESS OWNERI was bashing the show only lines! Not breeding for gameness but looks! I KNOW OUR DOGS CAN DO IT ALL OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE JUST ANOTHER DAMN DOG and not the Gamedog or if you wish the American Pit Bull Terrier. I'm not trying to start anything but lets keep it about fastlane gamedogs and not pig runners. HGAF about what other's do with their dogs? I know my job and what needs to be done to curs and hope everyone else feels the same way! But if not your in the wrong biz for making a name for yourself!

[fyremyst]

One mans trash is another mans treasure.The true measure of a dog to me ( notice I said to me) is loyalty.Bottom line is that dog gonna be there for me when I need them to be? Of the three pits I own only one has papers. So does this make the other two any less in my eyes? No to me all 3 give me every bit of their heart and soul .Papers are great dont get me wrong, but I dont love my other two any less becasue they dont have them. They give me their hearts thats all I can ask.

[Texasbulldogs]

“I believe that if you have a pack of cur APBTs let loose in a jungle and came back 10 year later to see the result, you will find many of the dogs produced while in the wild to be much more game than the original sample.”
How did you come to that conclusion, logically? You can’t name one “game” animal other than a pit bull that walks this earth!

“They are very tough canines and would whoop many box tested APBTs.”
I wholeheartedly disagree, simply because any “wild” canine knows if it’s injured it then becomes prey, can't keep up with the pack, and/or can’t hunt. Which is the reason all wild animals always pick out the weakest/sickest prey, chances of becoming injured is less likely.

[SFK]

Rocky, I think you're thinking to much. Gamedogs are not all ravenous beast that kill everything they see move. They can breed naturally, & some do excell at hog-hunting, obedience & such. Animal or Dog Aggression does not make a dog a great or even good combat dog. Every once in a while people want to try & re-invent the wheel. The current version is just fine!

[Rocky H. Balboa]

I believe that if you have a pack of cur APBTs let loose in a jungle and came back 10 year later to see the result, you will find many of the dogs produced while in the wild to be much more game than the original sample.”
How did you come to that conclusion, logically? You can’t name one “game” animal other than a pit bull that walks this earth!
I used "game" in the general sense.

“They are very tough canines and would whoop many box tested APBTs.”
I wholeheartedly disagree, simply because any “wild” canine knows if it’s injured it then becomes prey, can't keep up with the pack, and/or can’t hunt. Which is the reason all wild animals always pick out the weakest/sickest prey, chances of becoming injured is less likely.
The canines I was referring to where the wolfs. And exactly due to the strongest of the packs surviving, so would the pack of curs in my example. It is all about natural selection. I certainly believe if you came back 10 years later, the pack (or packs) would be of much tougher demeanor and would still remain in a social pecking order. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[Rocky H. Balboa]

Rocky, I think you're thinking to much. Gamedogs are not all ravenous beast that kill everything they see move. They can breed naturally, & some do excell at hog-hunting, obedience & such. Animal or Dog Aggression does not make a dog a great or even good combat dog. Every once in a while people want to try & re-invent the wheel. The current version is just fine!
Well, SKF, I have seen so-call champions studs and bitches having to be muzzled and held to reproduce. Meaning, if they were not muzzled, even in heat, they will surpress those urges to fight.

I am not trying to re-invent the wheel. Are you saying "if it ain't broken don't fix it?"

[B]

I believe that if you have a pack of cur APBTs let loose in a jungle and came back 10 year later to see the result, you will find many of the dogs produced while in the wild to be much more game than the original sample.”
How did you come to that conclusion, logically? You can’t name one “game” animal other than a pit bull that walks this earth!
I used "game" in the general sense.

“They are very tough canines and would whoop many box tested APBTs.”
I wholeheartedly disagree, simply because any “wild” canine knows if it’s injured it then becomes prey, can't keep up with the pack, and/or can’t hunt. Which is the reason all wild animals always pick out the weakest/sickest prey, chances of becoming injured is less likely.
The canines I was referring to where the wolfs. And exactly due to the strongest of the packs surviving, so would the pack of curs in my example. It is all about natural selection. I certainly believe if you came back 10 years later, the pack (or packs) would be of much tougher demeanor and would still remain in a social pecking order.ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>

Best joke I've heard all day! Haha... *leaves the computer still chuckling to himself*

B

[SFK]

Well, SKF, I have seen so-call champions studs and bitches having to be muzzled and held to reproduce. Meaning, if they were not muzzled, even in heat, they will surpress those urges to fight.

I am not trying to re-invent the wheel. Are you saying "if it ain't broken don't fix it?"
I too have seen & been a part of breeding "disagreeable" bulldogs. But this is not exclusive to this breed. & What I am saying is; if the dog aggression is the trait you are most trying to avoid why Start with a gamedog in the first place? Start with an Amstaff. That is what you are looking for. There is no acceptable reason to remove the heart & spirit of this distinguished breed just to have copy-cat CURS. That we can try to fool ourselves into thinking are Real Old Time Bulldogs!

[TabDogs]

Only worthless dogs are ones standing in the Showring!
wtf?? lmaoooo. Let me make sure I understand this correctly..LOL any dog that steps foot in a show ring is worthless?? That is gotta be one of the most ignorant statements I have heard. That statement is no different than the people who run around and say "oh all pit bulls are vicious..they are worthless dogs they should all be killed" . So I guess that GR CH Blackjack ROM was a worthless bag of fur huh?? And The countless other good dogs that have attended a show..A few of mine have attended shows and we have a blast, and my dogs are not in the least bit "worthless". LMAO

[SLICK WILLIE]

wtf?? lmaoooo. Let me make sure I understand this correctly..LOL any dog that steps foot in a show ring is worthless?? That is gotta be one of the most ignorant statements I have heard. That statement is no different than the people who run around and say "oh all pit bulls are vicious..they are worthless dogs they should all be killed" . So I guess that GR CH Blackjack ROM was a worthless bag of fur huh?? And The countless other good dogs that have attended a show..A few of mine have attended shows and we have a blast, and my dogs are not in the least bit "worthless". LMAO
OK! Super Mod! Dont get the panties in a bunch! If you read the other post i was talking about people that only show the dog and it never has seen a hard day in its life! I have dogs that can do the ring also but just assume stay where I am but I can come out for a show. I Dont have time for BS people showing their a$$ more than their dog and thats why this forum is here so everyone can see the real reason some people deal with this dog! I paied for my part to be here so keep your head and don't attack me cause you feel like it! Have a beer and get laid or something! Just get off my back...

[Marty]

I paid for my part to be here so keep your head and don't attack me cause you feel like it! Have a beer and get laid or something! Just get off my back...Yes but please watch you post!

[SLICK WILLIE]

Yes but please watch you post!
I was making my point! Not attacking anyone!

[KnottyBoyNC]

what are the guys well dogs that arent bred for hog-hunting or show but will kill a hog and can be a show dog? I didnt wanna say "GAME" b/c everyone on this site uses this word and wouldnt know what it really was if i shoved it up their AS...Butt!

[misterdogman]

I take offence to you calling the alligator line a cur bred line unless you have actually seen them all quit. I think you should not generalize them in such a matter
and it really seems that many here are confusing( gameness) with aggression yes I know most gamebred dogs are dog aggresive but there are many that are just fine untill they are were they are sappose to be (historicaly speaking )Please reread my comment...here it is below...I clearly said popular non Gamebred type...Hence Cur bred, I never in any form fashion or way implied all Alligator dogs were Curs. Understand what im saying before taking offense, which I hope will be promptly taken back now that I have been yet even more specific so you can understand...Lots of bigger type cur dogs off many lines were used as hog dogs, it dont take a game dog to catch a hog and these bigger lines Alligator, OFRN and Colby have all been used..Some did make good catch dogs even though the ones used were non proven Curs in some cases.

what I call Cur version (popular large non gamebred type) Alligator lines and Colby lines used...

Understand now?

[lilpitgirl]

Please except my most humble appolagy I miss read what you wrote. and I just get so frustrated sometimes .
so many people throw the word cur around like they know what the heck there talking about
and wouldnt know a game dog if it bit them on the ass

[TabDogs]

LOL i was stating my opinion as everyone else ..like it not oh well...That was far from attacking..LOL

[SLICK WILLIE]

Well if some poeple were not so wishie washie and want to cry about what I said about a non-working showdog this my have been ok. SORRY TABDOG! I'll go buy a showdog soon.

[TabDogs]

keep your spewing horse manure for some one who cares. "ill go buy a show dog soon" LOL good for you , and when you graduate high school(that is how you are acting) send me a post card. Just because a dog has been in a show ring doesnt make it less working than any other...Let it go..geesh are gonna crap your pants everytime someone states an opinion? Dont make a statment unless you are prepared for someone elses reply.

[Rockstar]

A whole lot of animosity going on over the past few days. Must be the moon.

[rocksteady]

what's worthless to one may not be worthless to another... ya?

For the sake of the dogs.... Theres only one who can judge another.. and none of us are HIM ....

the comment in the first place sounded like it was directed to anyone that placed a foot in a show ring with their dog... no reason for all the animosity.. it doest help the dogs any.
.



remember this..
People will say this and that..... they just can't stop me now


follow whatever you believe is the right thing... only you know for sure

[DryCreek]

Point to be made....there has not been any Natural Evolution in Domesticated Dogs since who knows when....humans decided what to breed for......not evolution:)
Also....not everyone believes in HIM either.....;)

[SLICK WILLIE]

keep your spewing horse manure for some one who cares. "ill go buy a show dog soon" LOL good for you , and when you graduate high school(that is how you are acting) send me a post card. Just because a dog has been in a show ring doesnt make it less working than any other...Let it go..geesh are gonna crap your pants everytime someone states an opinion? Dont make a statment unless you are prepared for someone elses reply.____________________________________... go hug a tree!

[TabDogs]

Closed.....lol Best Thing For Everyone...