Vili Bloodline from Croatia

[misterdogman]

I know there is only 4 pups in the USA minus the 4 adults and 3 pups I have that I got from the original breeder and the only man to have them bred as tightly as I do in the world. I was wondering if anyone has done any research concerning the line besides me? I have had some "experianced" dog people tell me you can get Black Magic dogs any where and since he was VILIs dad this would make sense. But in comparison to this line the VILI line has outclassed everything coming off his own fathers line in leagues not just mere circumstances. I have also been told this line is not special since it came off our stuff anyway, which is true, it basically is Bolio, Tombstone, Heinzl but when I went to Croatia to get my dogs I was blown away at the strict breeding and "proving" guidelines they use to continue a line...I have to admit I never met a dogman or breeder for that matter that was so committed in the USA to preserving the basics like what was it again..GAMENESS, oh yeah thats what it was, not anything else, these Croatians were allowed to do anything they wanted until about a month ago when they became a member of Europe and took on their laws, to NOT clarify we have not been allowed to do what we please for years which to me makes a difference in a breeding program. Anyhow I was just wondering if anyone else has heard of this line or researched the Balkan dog game to see if these dogs are what I have seen with my own eyes? I am planning breedings in the future in a professional way and would like to start a discussion about them if anyone is interested

[chainsoff]

What's up Mister, it's been awhile. I got a new #, not sure if you have this one, I'll give you a call. For those who don't know, the Vili dogs he speaks of are amazing. I too have seen with my own eyes, the capabilities of these dogs. The originator's effort is nothing less than 100% in producing the total package.

[SLICK WILLIE]

Some people cull and some people don't! Testing dogs here or over there is just the same except if you get caught here you go to jail. Dont sell our dogs short because of the laws. Get the job done set back and drink a beer! If you go to the RES they do it in the road. Drink beer that is...

[chainsoff]

Some people cull and some people don't! Testing dogs here or over there is just the same except if you get caught here you go to jail. Dont sell our dogs short because of the laws. Get the job done set back and drink a beer! If you go to the RES they do it in the road. Drink beer that is...It's not only the testing, and we aren't trying to seel our dogs short. I'm pleased with what I have of American dogs. But from what I've seen of the Vili dogs, they seem to be a step above.

[B-I-Z]

I'd like to hear more about these dogs

im half croatian my grandfather came to the U.S. when I was little, I've got a croatian dog he bred,he's a big ass but mannnn hes a damn bulldog ;)

[PADogman]

you got a ped on them dogs.Would like to see how they are bred.

[searkkennels]

one step above ours huh yeah right. i see that zinetti guy has dogs from the USA. So i don't even want to hear That BS. The USA has the best dogs and comp anywhere in the world. thats a fact. I am sure he has some good dogs, never seen them so i can't say for sure. But the comp people go into isn't the sam over seas as it is here. If it was why do so many people from other countries import them to their own country?

[misterdogman]

one step above ours huh yeah right. i see that zinetti guy has dogs from the USA. So i don't even want to hear That BS. The USA has the best dogs and comp anywhere in the world. thats a fact. I am sure he has some good dogs, never seen them so i can't say for sure. But the comp people go into isn't the sam over seas as it is here. If it was why do so many people from other countries import them to their own country?

yeah it has been tested more than once. Our USA ones and Croatian ones. I believe it was yankee who put the Croatians up one to begin with and frisco jr ended up being a cur after being with Mr. Garner. Zinetti himself proved that when he got them and it didn't stop there it seemed to prove to be that way with all american lines sent over there. I would have to look at the book that Im helping him write to double check but I guess you could just ask Mr.Garner himself about how many dogs he sent over there to make up for the ones he previously guaranteed. Or, if possible you could have asked Mr. Romero about the difficulty he had with his comp over seas with Croatians. But, it don't matter because your right it is not the same when you comp over seas it is a totally different world and until you have seen it then I guess you wouldn't know. So I guess to begin with dogs were sent there from here because there were none, now you would have to agree that their lines are no longer american and just saying that they're a step ahead of us wouldn't be selling our dogs short it would just be giving them less credit than they deserve. I'd say two steps in my humble opinion. Just based off of what I saw there with my own eyes and what I see now since I brought some back.

[misterdogman]

What's up Mister, it's been awhile. I got a new #, not sure if you have this one, I'll give you a call. For those who don't know, the Vili dogs he speaks of are amazing. I too have seen with my own eyes, the capabilities of these dogs. The originator's effort is nothing less than 100% in producing the total package.whats up chainsoff, thanks for the call and the update on your info. I was wondering where you been and was hoping you were well. Ok we will talk dogs later when we have more time.

[searkkennels]

i haven't seen any villi dogs in the fastlane!! If they are so bad every body would have them. As far as mr. garners dogs. i wouldn't own one. JMO. not trying to start anything. I wouldn't say they are ahead of us at all. I will say it again once and for all. the best dogs are in the USA. I can say this because i have seen some of the best.

[misterdogman]

i haven't seen any villi dogs in the fastlane!! If they are so bad every body would have them. As far as mr. garners dogs. i wouldn't own one. JMO. not trying to start anything. I wouldn't say they are ahead of us at all. I will say it again once and for all. the best dogs are in the USA. I can say this because i have seen some of the best.I know your not trying to start anything this is a place for us to talk and voice opinions and you obviously have your own. I wish one day I'm happy enough with what I have seen or run to be so dead set on what I believe to be fact. But, being what I am, I have never been so happy with the results I have had with any bloodline, because there is always and will always be a better one than the last one. So I guess I will never attain the ability to believe any one place has the best dogs or comp, because I never stop trying to find a better harder place to prove it. I am just the type of person that waits to see it first before I judge it. I have seen ours and theirs in person and base what I say off that, not just what I saw here in my career with a blind wave to what you haven't seen there in person. Besides it's not like anyone would bash their own dogs or bloodline anyway, have you ever heard anyone say an ill word about their own stuff or admit to some things they would change if they could? No.? As far as everyone with as much as a Champion is concerned these days they have the best dogs in the world, these are the types who are to slow for the fastlane anyway. As far as Mr Garners dogs I wouldn't own any either but thats off what we have seen here in the USA right? So how can your opinion be fact if you have only seen American lines? Also, nobody has them here because they never heard of them or went to the trouble to research foreign lines because they were happy settling for a domestic one after being convinced the best were here already, Chainsoff is the only guy I know who even went to the trouble to get a video to see for himself, and besides mine theres only 3 or 4 pups here in the states and I have the only 4 adults here because of the deal I have with Mr Z himself and it will be that way until I breed. Also, since their laws just changed there in Croatia to accomodate European entrance as a country you can't get anymore sent here anyway and will never be able too unless you get them papered differently to loophole the customs laws. So I guess this is where my statements come from. What I have SEEN with my own eyes not what I was told.

[Rockstar]

I had a daughter of Vili II imported from Italy not too long ago, so they aren't as rare or hard to come by as you're letting on, unless you're referring to direct offspring of Vili himself. I can get tight bred Vili dogs out of South Kennels for 600 and shipping. My girl was stolen from my yard last August, along with 5 other dogs, before I really got a chance to look at her, but I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of getting her here had I not been impressed with the line.

Davor's Vili
http://img300.echo.cx/img300/1900/davorsvili0yy.jpg

[STPFAN]

Don't get it twisted guys! Many of the dogs in Europe did come from blood in the USA but they also have there own strains and crosses that they developed!

Croatia and Yugoslavia have by far the best dogs and are able to compete in the fastlane with us! They are competing openly up there and testing at a very high rate as they don't have to stay lowkey as we do nowadays!

Asia (Thailand, Phillipines, etc...) are right behind us also! They are learning real fast and can put a dog in shape with the best of them!

[Scotsman]

I have seen a lot of videos from Eastern Europe and Asia and have to say that I was not impressed with how they handled the dogs and not very impressed with the dogs themselves.
Plus why buy a dog from overseas when you have the whole country here to get the source of the majority of the blood over there.

[B]

I have seen a lot of videos from Eastern Europe and Asia and have to say that I was not impressed with how they handled the dogs and not very impressed with the dogs themselves.
Plus why buy a dog from overseas when you have the whole country here to get the source of the majority of the blood over there.
GREAT post! I agree 100%. That is like buying an American made part from China just because they try to copy it. Doesn't mean the quality or worksmanship is ANYTHING similar to the original they tried to reproduce. I've also heard horror stories about the way some of those Eastern Europeans conduct business and treat their dogs.

B

Edit: I didn't mean to imply from this post that these Vili dogs aren't what they are claimed to be or otherwise. The stories I heard were all about a specific man that loves to post his stuff up. A good dog is where you find it... I suppose we could all learn more if we had the means to travel and see some of this with our own eyes. Part of the problem is that we can't compare directly with the stuff because we don't run or work with it. There are plenty of good places to get stuff in the states. Culling and being honest with yourself and your stock and you'll do fine.

[misterdogman]

Damn, I just visited your homepage. I thought you were that guy. You're nothing more than an over-priced peddler, among other things. 1500 for Vili pups??????????????????????
"My time is money, so don't waste it."


.....................indeed.

You're lucky I'm a nice guy; there are a lot of things I'd like to say to you right now...:mad:That's cool say what you want it in a PM if you want say it twice I don't care you have my yahoo ID and to let you know the price tag on my site is to weed out the people with the exact reaction you had when they see it. The ones who are more concerned about money and gamedogs being mentioned in the same sentence, I have offered to several people to be open partners with me and this bloodline to just preserve it for almost free, ask chainsoff I want him to "have" these dogs too because he will do them the same justice I will and bet your last buck you won't know what he pays for them and it won't be what my site says because he dont stand with an agape jaw looking stupid with a price tag on his head keeping him from doing research,he is talking dogs and making plans to get some not "buy" some, maybe I will leave that up it seems to work well showing me who don't need to ever own a dog from this line...just as I thought it would. Also by the way the dogs you can get for 600 aren't half as tight as these which are directly inbred off VILI with the only cross being Azra a super game and super stabile bitch Mr. Z had from country boys kennels. So go get ripped off thats good,if you want,because shipping will cost you the same amount at least so you can just go get one of those ones for 1200$ that sounds smart...and until you read my profile or ask some ?s don't refer to me as a peddler again I have never bred a dog ever and never sold a dog ever in my life and by saying a comment like that you hang yourself with your ignorant words and choose to call someone a name with no class to make yourself feel better...so who's the peddler? How many dogs you bred and sold?
I am waiting to breed for the right reasons, not to sell dogs. Like people who make comments like that without knowing what the hell they are talking about or who they are talking to.

[misterdogman]

Don't get it twisted guys! Many of the dogs in Europe did come from blood in the USA but they also have there own strains and crosses that they developed!

Croatia and Yugoslavia have by far the best dogs and are able to compete in the fastlane with us! They are competing openly up there and testing at a very high rate as they don't have to stay lowkey as we do nowadays!

Asia (Thailand, Phillipines, etc...) are right behind us also! They are learning real fast and can put a dog in shape with the best of them!Thankyou for an educated response and not just the typical babble, looks like you took the time to read and do your research, I commend your effort.

[misterdogman]

I had a daughter of Vili II imported from Italy not too long ago, so they aren't as rare or hard to come by as you're letting on, unless you're referring to direct offspring of Vili himself. I can get tight bred Vili dogs out of South Kennels for 600 and shipping. My girl was stolen from my yard last August, along with 5 other dogs, before I really got a chance to look at her, but I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of getting her here had I not been impressed with the line.

Davor's Vili
http://img300.echo.cx/img300/1900/davorsvili0yy.jpgWas the dogs name insomnia?

[SWAMPER]

Ive Heard Good And Bad About The Villi Line But You Hear The Same About All Lines All Have Currs All Have Winners Jmho......................................

[misterdogman]

Ive Heard Good And Bad About The Villi Line But You Hear The Same About All Lines All Have Currs All Have Winners Jmho......................................Where did you hear about the line to begin with to hear good and bad things? Also I totally agree with you all lines have curs and winners, every last one. If they didn't we would all flock to the line with nothing but winners out of commen sense right? We would all own the same dogs and we would all win everytime and then we would go get icecream in our perfect world... together... with our winners...But back to reality... this is why I chose this line to try to attain a point where I was as close as possible to perfection and thats the only reason it's not for us as MAN its for the DOGS and nothing here in the USA impressed me so much and after seeing them together I see why... in leagues and bounds every USA line I sent to them has been totally outclassed by the VILI dogs I just got... not just because of the dogs I chose to check...because of the quality I CHECKED the USA dogs with.

[SWAMPER]

lol i hear ya but 1 of them texas terrors may come 1 day,i love the villi line i had a pic of him not long ago hes a nice dog ....to say they are better than what we breed here,may be streatching it a lil,but imho everywhere has good 1s and 1s that can and will get beat and some that will win..........lol no disrespect,

[misterdogman]

lol i hear ya but 1 of them texas terrors may come 1 day,i love the villi line i had a pic of him not long ago hes a nice dog ....to say they are better than what we breed here,may be streatching it a lil,but imho everywhere has good 1s and 1s that can and will get beat and some that will win..........lol no disrespect,I agree once again and when one better does come along bet your last dollar that is the dog that will be used in my program...remember this is 4 the dogs and if someone brought a monster that could hang...I guarantee it will make me smile not frown because I would have found what I was looking for right? This is why I am here... to obtain the best and preserve it... so I hope I do run into a badder "DOG" not "line" so he or her can be used in the future that is the whole point of preservation to use only the best... well JMHO.

[Rockstar]

That's cool say what you want it in a PM if you want say it twice I don't care you have my yahoo ID and to let you know the price tag on my site is to weed out the people with the exact reaction you had when they see it. The ones who are more concerned about money and gamedogs being mentioned in the same sentence, I have offered to several people to be open partners with me and this bloodline to just preserve it for almost free, ask chainsoff I want him to "have" these dogs too because he will do them the same justice I will and bet your last buck you won't know what he pays for them and it won't be what my site says because he dont stand with an agape jaw looking stupid with a price tag on his head keeping him from doing research,he is talking dogs and making plans to get some not "buy" some, maybe I will leave that up it seems to work well showing me who don't need to ever own a dog from this line...just as I thought it would. Also by the way the dogs you can get for 600 aren't half as tight as these which are directly inbred off VILI with the only cross being Azra a super game and super stabile bitch Mr. Z had from country boys kennels. So go get ripped off thats good,if you want,because shipping will cost you the same amount at least so you can just go get one of those ones for 1200$ that sounds smart...and until you read my profile or ask some ?s don't refer to me as a peddler again I have never bred a dog ever and never sold a dog ever in my life and by saying a comment like that you hang yourself with your ignorant words and choose to call someone a name with no class to make yourself feel better...so who's the peddler? How many dogs you bred and sold?
I am waiting to breed for the right reasons, not to sell dogs. Like people who make comments like that without knowing what the hell they are talking about or who they are talking to.
The dogs that can be purchased for 600 aren't bred half as tight as yours??? We're talking some of the exact same blood you're popping 1500-dollar price tags on. That's your business though, but you come off as giving one long sales pitch, talking about how "rare" these dogs are and how difficult it is to get them from anyone but you; how US-bred dogs are totally outclassed by the Vili dogs, and on and on in this continuous spiel -you sound like a typical salesman. The fact is that Vili dogs aren't as rare as you say, nor are they as difficult for one to get their hands on. "Rare" is a common saleman's term. You can look through the classifieds section of any newspaper and find all sorts of "rare" dogs, which aren't any more of a rarity than all those "rare blue pits" lol. Now I myself happen to be quite fascinated with the Vili dogs, and I've had an interest in the line for years. I'll be the first to agree that these are dogs bred for quality and performance. If it is truly your intention to preserve this line, rather than try to make a buck, then I fully respect that and offer my apologies, but the inaccurate sales pitch and the 1500-dollar price tags sort of have me thrown.

[14rock]

The dogs look good, I've never seen one with my own eyes so I wont comment on that matter, just wanted to say.... is it really smart to have some much info open on the internet when you are located in the U.S.? I dont think so, just as a matter of safety I've gotta say, you might want to leave some things to the imagination to the general public, ya know? Just my 2 cents, take it as you will.

[misterdogman]

The dogs look good, I've never seen one with my own eyes so I wont comment on that matter, just wanted to say.... is it really smart to have some much info open on the internet when you are located in the U.S.? I dont think so, just as a matter of safety I've gotta say, you might want to leave some things to the imagination to the general public, ya know? Just my 2 cents, take it as you will.Yeah your probaly right. I can't disagree but I guess my attitude is my constitutional right to say what I please. So I do and will.

[misterdogman]

The dogs that can be purchased for 600 aren't bred half as tight as yours??? We're talking some of the exact same blood you're popping 1500-dollar price tags on. That's your business though, but you come off as giving one long sales pitch, talking about how "rare" these dogs are and how difficult it is to get them from anyone but you; how US-bred dogs are totally outclassed by the Vili dogs, and on and on in this continuous spiel -you sound like a typical salesman. The fact is that Vili dogs aren't as rare as you say, nor are they as difficult for one to get their hands on. "Rare" is a common saleman's term. You can look through the classifieds section of any newspaper and find all sorts of "rare" dogs, which aren't any more of a rarity than all those "rare blue pits" lol. Now I myself happen to be quite fascinated with the Vili dogs, and I've had an interest in the line for years. I'll be the first to agree that these are dogs bred for quality and performance. If it is truly your intention to preserve this line, rather than try to make a buck, then I fully respect that and offer my apologies, but the inaccurate sales pitch and the 1500-dollar price tags sort of have me thrown.Thats exactly what the price tag was for, to throw off the people not serious about the dogs, now if someone I didn't know showed up through the grapevine wanting to buy one I would bet he was pretty serious if he showed up with that kind of money in hand which still doesn't mean he will get one anyway. If you have recently talked to me in person or online you would know what I am planning to let them go for. I intentionally started high to weed out the people that would rather think about the price instead of trying to find a way to get one. The statements on my site are not all my own words some are excerpts from Mr. Zinettis book I have been translating to English for him and some are statements I made only with the approval and guidence from someone who had the authority to say so. Mr. Z himself...these dogs are indeed rare here bred this tight straight off of VILI and you can not get them from anyone else like this except Mr Z himself no matter what you say or who tells you otherwise you can email him and ask, these dogs are bred like this in only 1 place Croatia in his yard and there is only puppies here bred like this except for the other 4 adults I have, there is no other adults. This in my opinion is rare... my 4 adults and 3 pups and the 4 other puppies spread around the country off any line makes them rare if thats all you have in a country this big. Anyone else saying they have VILI dogs like this is lying final and period. What you say is an innaccurate sales pitch and or a common salesman term is your opinion to have but your still wrong, no matter how you add it up your just making statements as you type while you make them up. If they are so easy to get and not so special why don't anyone else have any like this?

[Scotsman]

You make a big deal about these dogs but who really gives a damn?!! They are just another line of dogs. You can get good dogs from Mexico and a lot of good dogs are coming from Mexico.

[idgie]

not sure why you think you're the only one zinetti does business with. like rockstar said, not all those dogs come here directly from croatia.

in terms of how eastern europeans handle their dogs - we all know people who could do better with that.

[misterdogman]

You make a big deal about these dogs but who really gives a damn?!! They are just another line of dogs. You can get good dogs from Mexico and a lot of good dogs are coming from Mexico.Yeah O.K. I have now entered the mode of silently watching school time is over.
Discuss it among youselves while some good Mexican dogs and I go to Taco Bell.

[misterdogman]

not sure why you think you're the only one zinetti does business with. like rockstar said, not all those dogs come here directly from croatia.

in terms of how eastern europeans handle their dogs - we all know people who could do better with that.Yeah you know what your talking about, did you read all the posts ? Oh wait no if you did you would have read all the details. I never said they all come from there. I am sure someone has "dogs off vili" elsewhere...just like you hear people saying ...one time I had a "dog off Chinaman, of wait no frisco oh wait no whos who again well off that line and that means they're all the same so yeah it might as well be that way... Vili did go to Italy after his Croatian Career. I said it once, now again, the TIGHTEST blood is on his yard and are bred like that only there, 1 place, in the world, Croatia, Mr. Zs yard and thats it. If you wanted get one of the 600$ ones Rockstar is talking about that seems a fair price since money is the number 1 concern buying a dog for you guys. It will save you money and won't hurt as bad feeding the thing either because what you save can get a lot of dogfood.

[Remo]

I dont want to stir up any Bullshit, but I just seen too much uncalled for "yeah but where did the dogs they have come from originally"...

History lesson... This breed origintes from Ireland/England, maybe it was refined over in the states to a higher level when the game was in a bad situation over in Europe. And maybe that is just what is going down again! The dogs have a bad situation in the states so maybe the next step up for the dogs is in other places for the moment.

[misterdogman]

I dont want to stir up any Bullshit, but I just seen too much uncalled for "yeah but where did the dogs they have come from originally"...

History lesson... This breed origintes from Ireland/England, maybe it was refined over in the states to a higher level when the game was in a bad situation over in Europe. And maybe that is just what is going down again! The dogs have a bad situation in the states so maybe the next step up for the dogs is in other places for the moment.Good good point sounds like something I said previously but dont worry the worst thing you'll hear from saying a statement like that is..."but we see how eastern Europeans and Vietnamese/Phillipinos handle their dogs and they could use some help"...ETC, once again just an ignorant excuse to make any line except theirs look bad...if they cant Dis the dogs they'll Dis the handlers...The crappy thing is the Laws in East EU just changed a month or 2 ago especially in Croatia so looks like the situation needs a new location once again, hope someone could afford an island we could all go to. Lets start a fund to build a island out of pontoons and buoys about 12miles off the coast where there is no regulations...HA if it could be done I am sure someone here would have considered it... but I still wonder?

[idgie]

my bad, misterdogman. i was looking at some statements made on your website, which i see now you have qualified here ;)

[TIP]

Misterdogman i no where u are coming from

I have studed these dogs from the balkans for a while now and all i can say to Mister is what a wise move.

Just wondering if anyone here has ever read the book balkan warrriors for thoes who have not once uve's have read that book you might just want to retract your posts

Dogs in the balkans are tested very,very hard not saying there not in the U.S or any where else for most there dogs are there LIFE
As where else its just a very competitive hobbie

Yes indeed most of the stock has come from the U.S but where has it not??

You got to start from the source(u.s) but once you have its all down to you and where you take that strain
Also another thing the best dogs to get imported to the balkans where not direct from the U.S but from Holland the Country Boy stuff thats what really kicked it off there

Am not saying dogs from the U.S are not as good as the one"s from the balkan area BUT you can never say U.S has the best dog anymore

JMOP

[misterdogman]

Misterdogman i no where u are coming from

I have studed these dogs from the balkans for a while now and all i can say to Mister is what a wise move.

Just wondering if anyone here has ever read the book balkan warrriors for thoes who have not once uve's have read that book you might just want to retract your posts

Dogs in the balkans are tested very,very hard not saying there not in the U.S or any where else for most there dogs are there LIFE
As where else its just a very competitive hobbie

Yes indeed most of the stock has come from the U.S but where has it not??

You got to start from the source(u.s) but once you have its all down to you and where you take that strain
Also another thing the best dogs to get imported to the balkans where not direct from the U.S but from Holland the Country Boy stuff thats what really kicked it off there

Am not saying dogs from the U.S are not as good as the one"s from the balkan area BUT you can never say U.S has the best dog anymore

JMOPYes I read it of course and all your points are right on, I commend you for doing your research, and the upcoming new Balkan gamedog version from Mr Zinetti covering all the Balkan dogs not just the Vili or Black Magic line will be completed this summer when I get done translating the book to English for him. Its bigger than Ed Farons "The Complete Gamedog" and really tiring my wrists out. I'm finishing up going through all the bad english and crappy spelling not to mention words that dont translate so when he is done waiting for me to finish(sometimes I am slow) its off to his publisher...anyhow it will be a good book called Balkan Scranost I believe(Balkan Gameness) but im not sure of the dead set name yet since I am not naming it...I will update those interested in reading the new one and tell you how to get a copy, and your add in about where the dogs originated there are right on the head a lot were off differnt things than what some people here believe...here is a small excerpt explaining a small part of the beginnings in the Balkans...This is used with permission from the Author only and we should feel lucky to have it posted here first and please if you copy it dont proliferate it until the book is released... Excerpt from "Our Beginnings" in The soon to come Balkan Game Dog Story coming THIS SUMMER....

The first Pit dogs came to the Balkans (ex. Yugoslavia) in the mid 80's and that is when it all began. In the
early 90's this Sport had a true explosion and became popular and very big. In the last decade the Balkan has produced
over 250 champions. Most of them were proven in the fast lane against stiff competition. We live in a small country,
but that's the beauty of it. We all know each other and to contract a match, we don't need to search long or travel far.
Almost every weekend there are shows in every part of Croatia. The first pit bull brought here was Ganja's
BLACK MAGIC, also known as MAD MAX( VILIs Father). That black pup arrived in 84' from Holland. Imported by Sine Leskovar
from Ljubljana. He was an outcrossed dog, bred down from Loposay's BUSTER, Cotton's BULLET, Patrick bloodlines.
Soon after, Ljubomir Obradovic from Belgrade, imported 2 pups also from Holland. They were named
CHICO and LILY (THOR & SPANKY). They were half brother and sister, both sired by the super game dog VENTJE,
who was heavily inbred from Snooty/Eli/Art's Missy blood. When bred together, CHICO and LILY produced great
dogs such as CH. YANKEE ROM, CIA ROM, SPIKE 2XW 1XD, BAGZY. Even today their blood is going very strong.
In 1998 Mr. Radonjic from Podgorica, Montenegro. Imported 3 littermate pups from RedBoy/Jocko/Jeep
breeding. They were the first pit bulls from the States, from the New York area. Their breeders name was T.J.
Mr. Radonjic named his pups JUMBO, GIPSY and RAMBO, 3 males which have had a big influence in our breed. Hope you enjoy this little insight.
JK

[TIP]

Yes I read it of course and all your points are right on, I commend you for doing your research, and the upcoming new Balkan gamedog version from Mr Zinetti covering all the Balkan dogs not just the Vili or Black Magic line will be completed this summer when I get done translating the book to English for him. Its bigger than Ed Farons "The Complete Gamedog" and really tiring my wrists out. I'm finishing up going through all the bad english and crappy spelling not to mention words that dont translate so when he is done waiting for me to finish(sometimes I am slow) its off to his publisher...anyhow it will be a good book called Balkan Scranost I believe(Balkan Gameness) but im not sure of the dead set name yet since I am not naming it...I will update those interested in reading the new one and tell you how to get a copy, and your add in about where the dogs originated there are right on the head a lot were off differnt things than what some people here believe...here is a small excerpt explaining a small part of the beginnings in the Balkans...This is used with permission from the Author only and we should feel lucky to have it posted here first and please if you copy it dont proliferate it until the book is released... Excerpt from "Our Beginnings" in The soon to come Balkan Game Dog Story coming THIS SUMMER....

The first Pit dogs came to the Balkans (ex. Yugoslavia) in the mid 80's and that is when it all began. In the
early 90's this Sport had a true explosion and became popular and very big. In the last decade the Balkan has produced
over 250 champions. Most of them were proven in the fast lane against stiff competition. We live in a small country,
but that's the beauty of it. We all know each other and to contract a match, we don't need to search long or travel far.
Almost every weekend there are shows in every part of Croatia. The first pit bull brought here was Ganja's
BLACK MAGIC, also known as MAD MAX( VILIs Father). That black pup arrived in 84' from Holland. Imported by Sine Leskovar
from Ljubljana. He was an outcrossed dog, bred down from Loposay's BUSTER, Cotton's BULLET, Patrick bloodlines.
Soon after, Ljubomir Obradovic from Belgrade, imported 2 pups also from Holland. They were named
CHICO and LILY (THOR & SPANKY). They were half brother and sister, both sired by the super game dog VENTJE,
who was heavily inbred from Snooty/Eli/Art's Missy blood. When bred together, CHICO and LILY produced great
dogs such as CH. YANKEE ROM, CIA ROM, SPIKE 2XW 1XD, BAGZY. Even today their blood is going very strong.
In 1998 Mr. Radonjic from Podgorica, Montenegro. Imported 3 littermate pups from RedBoy/Jocko/Jeep
breeding. They were the first pit bulls from the States, from the New York area. Their breeders name was T.J.
Mr. Radonjic named his pups JUMBO, GIPSY and RAMBO, 3 males which have had a big influence in our breed. Hope you enjoy this little insight.
JK

Thanxs for sharing that with us

And please keep me updated on the book

[Rockstar]

"This is the first time VILI blood has been offered to serious Dogmen in the U.S.A." Not true.

"...if they even heard of VILI dogs, they are very hard to locate since only 1 person has them." Not true.

Now, if these statements are in reference to direct offspring of Vili, then I can't argue them, but the term Vili dogs implies reference to the Vili bloodline in general. If someone uses the term Redboy dogs or Chinaman dogs etc, they are most often referring to a general bloodline. If I am misunderstanding you, hopefully you can see the basis as to why.
Someone I trust has informed me that you are a man of honorable intent, so again, my humble apologies for any wrong impression. I have much respect for this particular line, and I would hate to see it exploited for the sole sake of money, as so many other great lines have been.

[misterdogman]

"This is the first time VILI blood has been offered to serious Dogmen in the U.S.A." Not true.

"...if they even heard of VILI dogs, they are very hard to locate since only 1 person has them." Not true.

Now, if these statements are in reference to direct offspring of Vili, then I can't argue them, but the term Vili dogs implies reference to the Vili bloodline in general. If someone uses the term Redboy dogs or Chinaman dogs etc, they are most often referring to a general bloodline. If I am misunderstanding you, hopefully you can see the basis as to why.
Someone I trust has informed me that you are a man of honorable intent, so again, my humble apologies for any wrong impression. I have much respect for this particular line, and I would hate to see it exploited for the sole sake of money, as so many other great lines have been.I totally understand what you are saying and I even am tempted to change some wording to make it more user friendly on my site because I can understand the misunderstanding...In reference to what I say about their rarity I am speaking of them bred like this, this tightly and STRAIGHT OFF OF VILI..."Zinettis way" and as far as the statement goes for them being offered to serious dogmen for the first time what I am meaning is in the USA from someone from a Working Kennel and with the ability to reproduce them in the same way Zinetti has done... Sure there are other ways to get the "line" if you consider any dog with some similar names in it and from the same blood to be the same line of dog...BUT as chainsoff did he contacted MR. Z himself to make sure I was legitimate and what I was saying is true...the dogs Mr Z has produced are indeed 1 of a kind with nobody anywhere breeding them identically like him and this is the basis of my comments...sorry for the confusion and to tell you the truth I never looked into finding other people in Europe or elsewhere with the same blood after I found the tightest source and beginning location for them, which was Mr. Zs and Mr. Radonjanics(owner of VILI) yards...I have been told by Mr. Z there is no Kennels breeding his kind in the States and as of today there is only 4 puppies here besides my 3 and one of those was stolen in N.J. and the other 3 are on the west coast 1 of the oldest being a 8-11 month old male named Monster in Seattle...I forget his birthday...Also he has also told me I am the only one to get adults like this which I have been told several times are the only ones here bred like this besides the other 4 pups if the stolen one is still alive?...Mr Z has warned me also about the new laws in Croatia and said his Parliament is even trying to find where they were all sent because they want them all put down or sterilized so none can ever return...I havent had no visitors yet but I promptly told him to forget I ever existed except in our private conversations...one of the only links and or persons he will admit to knowing me is chainsoff someone I would call a friend and someone who has asked Mr Z himself if all of what I say is true...sorry for any misunderstandings and if any more clarifications are needed I can be reached in my IMs...You can also talk to chainsoff to hear what Mr Z tells him when they talk...I dont know the last time they spoke but I know they have several times and all I say was backed up when they did straight from the source...To tell you the truth I am almost considering telling him to pretend I died or to just play dumb to prevent flooding him with excess crap to read through... his english aint that good and it must be hard understanding it all...I dont want to stress the guy out defending what he has told me he has NOTHING to prove considering his dogs...other than that, I was told by a wise friend here on this site...He basically said just tell him to pretend he dont know you and or your position with Vili dog posession and then hide the dogs in your pocket and dont tell anyone what they are anyway...this seems more logical the more I think about it..sorry to ruffle any hairs and forgive the misunderstanding please...

[Rockstar]

I withdraw my earlier accusatory comment, and I sincerely apologize for having said it. It was simply a matter of misinterpretation.
Welcome to the site, Misterdogman.

[misterdogman]

I withdraw my earlier accusatory comment, and I sincerely apologize for having said it. It was simply a matter of misinterpretation.
Welcome to the site, Misterdogman.So to start off on the right foot, the one we should have been standing on in the first place, hello, nice to meet you sorry for the poor ill conceived scratching contest I feel I started from my own lack of details and ignorance...lol...and thank you for being dogman enough to know when good guys should stick it out long enough to see whos really under the pixels and colors on the screen...to tell everyone the truth this has been the best welcome I could have recieved anywhere under any conditions on any site...the kind of welcome where I felt I was fighting for my life...man the similarities between men and dogs are uncanny aren't they..LMAO...Thanks again for the welcome and I look forward to learning from you and everyone else here and doing what I can to invest in this site any way possible and help with anything I may be helpful with...JK

[ChAnimal]

First off the best dog of that whole region is a Sorrells dog. Not an outcross straight Sorrells. He beat 3 gr chs and one ch, he also proved game his first time out losing game. Dogs name is Ch Silver. And the best bitch there was a Sorrells dog too Gr Ch Vetra 8xw 1xd. Where are all the one step ahead dogs?

[misterdogman]

First off the best dog of that whole region is a Sorrells dog. Not an outcross straight Sorrells. He beat 3 gr chs and one ch, he also proved game his first time out losing game. Dogs name is Ch Silver. And the best bitch there was a Sorrells dog too Gr Ch Vetra 8xw 1xd. Where are all the one step ahead dogs?Keep runnin', youll see them when you catch up...

[BB-Knls]

I have Vili dogs mate, don't pat yourself on the back too hard.
My mate has Vili dogs also !! We have Vili II blood & Duk blood , we gonna breed up a halfbrother-sister ,both off them have Vili II as father. So we linebreeding on Vili II right there ! My mate also bred Spike ( DUK x Munchmellow) with Benny ( GR CH DENDY x AZRA , this is topside same blood and bottomside a Bullyson/GrCH Buck cross).
So you see ,you ain't """the only man to have them bred as tightly as I do in the world.""" !!

I DO however agree with you that Vili dogs is the bomb, we wouldn't feed them if we didn't truly believe in this blood !!!

Bottomline is mate, try NOT to convince people about this blood as the dogs WILL do the talking !!!
Also don't brag about how tight your shit is as there's a shitload of Vili dogs not only in Croatia but also is Slovenia, Serbia , Belgium, Holland and further up north in Europe ;)


ROCKSTAR
You the one with the female off of Vili II x Rika by any chance mate ?

YIS

[BB-Knls]

PS
MONSTER's birthday is June 7th 2004, I have his bellybrother right here !

Take care.

[BB-Knls]

PS
MONSTER's birthday is June 7th 2004, I have his bellybrother right here !

Take care.
He came out of a litter of 4 , 2M 2F .1 male went to me ,1 male ( Monster ) went to USA , 1 female went to CH Glivo's owner Mate and 1 female ( Blell ) went to South Kennel , she was killed after the massive raids last year.

[Rockstar]

"ROCKSTAR
You the one with the female off of Vili II x Rika by any chance mate?"

She was stolen along with 8 other dogs. Three were recovered, but unfortunately she wasn't among them.

[BB-Knls]

"ROCKSTAR
You the one with the female off of Vili II x Rika by any chance mate?"

She was stolen along with 8 other dogs. Three were recovered, but unfortunately she wasn't among them.Sorry to hear about your loss mate, all them out that litter was quick to start and showed real promising !!!!

---sorry, bro. Against rules to talk about such specifics---

The brothers and sisters from your bitch where killed also in them raids.:(

[Rockstar]

Yeah, I heard about Rika's last one. I wish I could've seen it. *RIP*

It breaks my heart, what happened in those raids, man. A lot of good dogs lost. It's a crazy brutal world.

[BB-Knls]

Yeah, I heard about Rika's last one. I wish I could've seen it. *RIP*

It breaks my heart, what happened in those raids, man. A lot of good dogs lost. It's a crazy brutal world.Yeah it is a f***ing shame !!

Rika ! Rika was the bomb for sure.

[ChAnimal]

Keep runnin', youll see them when you catch up...
What does that mean? The Silver dog is from Serbia and is owned by the number 1 dog man there. He beat Black Mup and Dendy along with the other u ask Zinetti he'll tell ya.

[dragonknight]

This is so funny......A guy trying to sell some dogs and others hate on it. The bottom line He has them and you have to trust what he says. Just like any other Joe out there trying to sell a dog who says they have the best. I believe the dogman on what he says on his dogs, and I do believe if you get a dog off the same line as he is selling how tightly bread is that one. So if you can go to the saurce then go. Anyway to keep the line tight after you get one you have to keep going back to the saurce. Come on you all know the game............I see it as just being jealous with those who hate. Besides they are just names of dogs or breeders. Are these dogs genectically matched or just crazy....????

[dragonknight]

I am studding him out!!!!!

[misterdogman]

What does that mean? The Silver dog is from Serbia and is owned by the number 1 dog man there. He beat Black Mup and Dendy along with the other u ask Zinetti he'll tell ya.Ask, Zinetti, oh you mean my partner where I got all my Vili dogs from...oh ok...

[BB-Knls]

What does that mean? The Silver dog is from Serbia and is owned by the number 1 dog man there. He beat Black Mup and Dendy along with the other u ask Zinetti he'll tell ya.
Silver is owned H&C by Golden King Kennels (Pera), he's a real nice fellow and sure a decent dogman but he ain't #1 mate !

Second mistake you made is that Dendy got beat, thats not true he's a straight 7xW monsterdog mate !!!!

[ChAnimal]

Silver is owned H&C by Golden King Kennels (Pera), he's a real nice fellow and sure a decent dogman but he ain't #1 mate !

Second mistake you made is that Dendy got beat, thats not true he's a straight 7xW monsterdog mate !!!!
Sorry but u are correct not dendy, my mistake, sejin, black mup, and joker were the gr ch's.

[BB-Knls]

Sorry but u are correct not dendy, my mistake, sejin, black mup, and joker were the gr ch's.;)

Golden Kings CH Silver's stats !!


Opp. Time. Weight. W/L.

Montenegro Kennels
GR CH Jocker 1.10 19 kg W

Lazica's
Carlos 1.04 19.4kg L

Toxic Kennels
GR CH Black Mup 1.15 19.5 W

Gladiator Kennels
CH Boni 0.55 19.3 W

Floyd's
GR CH Sheyn 1.05 19.5 W

[Rocky H. Balboa]

The way to prove Vilis are top dogs is to bring on them Top US dogs. Once you have proven your "tight" Vili dogs have overmatched (better yet overwhelmed) the tight US lines all the uncertainty will stop. Very simple in my eyes. Stop everything else you're working on and concentrate on these dogs for 1 year and either you or the nay sayers will know who is right.

Proof is the best witness.

[RHI]

Ive Heard Good And Bad About The Villi Line But You Hear The Same About All Lines All Have Currs All Have Winners Jmho......................................
I could'nt agree more !

All I can say is WOW, no, I'll probably have more, lol .....some of this stuff is rediculous, I guess it would REALLY depend on which dogs someones refering to.....I can tell you, their were some AWESOME dogs 20 + years ago.....and where did this other line of dogs come from and what bloodlines did they consist of ?? thats what I thought....as far as the comment about dogmen there compaired to some of the oldtimers here, past and present, ( hobby) thats histarical....

[misterdogman]

I could'nt agree more !

All I can say is WOW, no, I'll probably have more, lol .....some of this stuff is rediculous, I guess it would REALLY depend on which dogs someones refering to.....I can tell you, their were some AWESOME dogs 20 + years ago.....and where did this other line of dogs come from and what bloodlines did they consist of ?? thats what I thought....as far as the comment about dogmen there compaired to some of the oldtimers here, past and present, ( hobby) thats histarical....Black Magic was BOLIO/TOMBSTONE/HEINZEL on the top and heavily inbred ELI on the bottom. Sire of BLACK MAGIC was Hensen's DANGER. His dam was Country Boys BLACK PEARL. From him came the dog out of which this line was created, his son VILI ROM.

[letmeride]

new member found this site researching this bloodline i plan on getting one when i get back from basic training i read all your posts and would love to discuss this blood line as much as possible to soak up as i can about this line and i noticed a few of you claim to have them if you can show papers and are willing i would be more than happy to purchase or put down a deposit in a few weeks