breeder or puppy mill

[MMK]

this is just a topic starter to see what everyone thinks as we all have different idea of what i puppy mill is and a responsible breeder is.

here is how i define the 2

Responsible Breeder
i feel a responsible breeder is someone not breeding with profit in mind and tries to keep as much of what they breed as they can. this doesnt mean that they do not sell any dogs ever but they do not sell as many as others and try to keep say 3/5 pups they have. i feel a respectful breeder does this cause they know what they breed is superior to what else is out there and want to keep as much of it for them selfs as they can. as we all know no one would sell a dog that they felt is going to be an ace unless they were in a pinch and had absolutly no other choice. u feel if anyone breds a dog they should try to keep at least 3-4 of the pups depending on the size of the litter. but say if a dog had a freak size litter like 11 and they kept 4-5 and sold the rest then i feel that is a different story as the numbers are so high i dont know many that could feed that many along with all the other dogs that they own.


Puppy Mill
i feel a puppy mill is someone who breeds with money being their main drive. in my opinion an example of this would be say having 8 pups and keeping 1 and selling the rest. even if they only have one litter a year and do this i feel it is a puppy mill as they must feel there dogs are not really worthy of keeping themselfs or else they would have kept the dogs to them selfs and only sold what they were un able to keep. but puppy mills sell well over the majority of the dogs they breed just to suppliment there income. these people should not be bought from. dogs from people like this are usually off of lower quality dogs as they are breeding everything for profit and just keep one incase they got lucky with a good breeding.

these are the definetions of how i describe both terms. feel free to add your own definitions but try to make sure u seperate the two like i did so there is no confusion about which u are definning.

MMK

[BigTex]

to me a peddler is someone who isnt active with their dogs....i really dont care how many they sell....its nice though to see they keep a couple here and there though.....and they use what they breed....Carver, Boudreaux, etc etc etc.....nearly every big name back then sold dogs....alot of them...and they wouldnt have any buyers if there dogs were no good....i agree they were a peddler to an extent.....but they still had good dogs and matched good dogs

[PADogman]

I feel that puppymill is someone who is out just for the money and is breeding for bigger litters and not taking the time to look at what is being bred right.these are the people that make these dogs worse by not checking for health problems and pushing these dogs out the door for other people to maybe breed with other pits.And the end result is a way inferiour dog that shouldnt have been around in the first place.These people are responsable for giving this breed a bad reputation.

[MMK]

i am just a die hard fan of keeping what u breed, atleast as many as possible.
MMK

[Bubba]

RESPONSIBLE BREEDER...keeps what he/she can and maybe farms or sells a few to people that they know will do right by the dog and use them for what they are intended for. A responsible breeder, won't let every Tom Dick and Harry get ahold of his stock, even if they are offering him high dollars.

A PEDDLER...keeps only what is needed to continue breeding and has dollar signs in their eyes...Tom Dick and Harry can walk up to Mr. Peddler and buy whatever they wants because they have high dollars in their pockets...a PEDDLER doesn't really care if what he breeds is out there competing and being used as intended, a peddler only cares about repeat business.
BB

[MMK]

BBK
i agree with u 100%. placing dogs in good hands is more important than making money. i dont try to rape the breed for money. and any money i make from them go back into my dogs. and i have turned down 1k for a pup just cause i try to keep what i breed, and that was to a working dogman who is a competitor. but i told him i would send him one for free, to see how my dogs compete in another area
MMK

[LA_Headhunters]

Couldn't have said it better myself guys. I can't stand a puppy mill or someone who breeds strictly for profit. I guess I just like the old time way of doing things. I also DO NOT believe in these high ass prices people are asking for pups. Damn!! C'mon!!!!!!

[no1special]

Hmm...I'm starting to think my friend is a puppy peddler cause he keeps usually 2 pups from a litter and sells the rest for anywhere from $800 to $2000 a pup :eek: For Blaze I paid $500 cash AND have to give him pick male and pick female pup when I breed him. I dunno...the more I learn the more it makes me think about things......

[Bubba]

Hmm...I'm starting to think my friend is a puppy peddler cause he keeps usually 2 pups from a litter and sells the rest for anywhere from $800 to $2000 a pup :eek: For Blaze I paid $500 cash AND have to give him pick male and pick female pup when I breed him. I dunno...the more I learn the more it makes me think about things......No offense....but it kinda sounds like you got took for a ride...
BB

[no1special]

No offense....but it kinda sounds like you got took for a ride...
BB
Doesn't that just figure. It's one of those "hey look a newbie...let's milk her for all it's worth. she won't know any better." :mad:

[Bubba]

Doesn't that just figure. It's one of those "hey look a newbie...let's milk her for all it's worth. she won't know any better." :mad:BINGO...and lots of folks are like that...chaulk it up to a good learning experience, good people in these dogs are hard to find, but when you find them, you've met some of the best in the world...
BB

[no1special]

BINGO...and lots of folks are like that...chaulk it up to a good learning experience, good people in these dogs are hard to find, but when you find them, you've met some of the best in the world...
BB
Thanks BB. I've got more to learn that I thought. I'm really glad I found this board :)

[Bubba]

Thanks BB. I've got more to learn that I thought. I'm really glad I found this board :)Welcome to the board...glad to have ya.
BB

[MMK]

yeah it sounds like u got taken for a ride by a puppy peddler. i wouldnt have agreed to any pup deals in the future if i was you. but then agian most good breeders wont ask for pups out of a dog when it is a pup being sold. that was a good sign the person was a puppy peddler.
MMK

[gator]

I guess evryone peddles pups to an extent. A true puppy peddler stands out in the crowd though,he go`s as far as advertising in the local newspaper and sells dogs to anyone that answers the ad just trying to turn a buck at our breeds expense and that is easy to spot that kinda person I mean.

I have probably sold 200 pups in 20 odd years and not one time did I adveritise anywhere not in any bulldog magizines or anywhere else. I never sold a dog to anyone I didnt know,I would kill it before I did that and take the risk of some idiot bring harm to something I created and a bad name to a bredd of dog I love so much. I know that might sound harsh but I have seen what can become of one of our dogs in the wrong hands and I never want to know that I was part of that.

yeah it sounds like u got taken for a ride by a puppy peddler. i wouldnt have agreed to any pup deals in the future if i was you. but then agian most good breeders wont ask for pups out of a dog when it is a pup being sold. that was a good sign the person was a puppy peddler.
MMK

[KURUPT]

this is just a topic starter to see what everyone thinks as we all have different idea of what i puppy mill is and a responsible breeder is.

here is how i define the 2

Responsible Breeder
i feel a responsible breeder is someone not breeding with profit in mind and tries to keep as much of what they breed as they can. this doesnt mean that they do not sell any dogs ever but they do not sell as many as others and try to keep say 3/5 pups they have. i feel a respectful breeder does this cause they know what they breed is superior to what else is out there and want to keep as much of it for them selfs as they can. as we all know no one would sell a dog that they felt is going to be an ace unless they were in a pinch and had absolutly no other choice. u feel if anyone breds a dog they should try to keep at least 3-4 of the pups depending on the size of the litter. but say if a dog had a freak size litter like 11 and they kept 4-5 and sold the rest then i feel that is a different story as the numbers are so high i dont know many that could feed that many along with all the other dogs that they own.


Puppy Mill
i feel a puppy mill is someone who breeds with money being their main drive. in my opinion an example of this would be say having 8 pups and keeping 1 and selling the rest. even if they only have one litter a year and do this i feel it is a puppy mill as they must feel there dogs are not really worthy of keeping themselfs or else they would have kept the dogs to them selfs and only sold what they were un able to keep. but puppy mills sell well over the majority of the dogs they breed just to suppliment there income. these people should not be bought from. dogs from people like this are usually off of lower quality dogs as they are breeding everything for profit and just keep one incase they got lucky with a good breeding.

these are the definetions of how i describe both terms. feel free to add your own definitions but try to make sure u seperate the two like i did so there is no confusion about which u are definning.

MMK

MMK,

With this post I would have to say that...Pat Patrick, T. Garner, Tant, Townsend and every other top breeder out there right now, that most of the people buy there dogs from would be considered a puppy mill...Wouldn't you say??

[J M A N]

I agree with Gator & BNK on this oneMMK,

With this post I would have to say that...Pat Patrick, T. Garner, Tant, Townsend and every other top breeder out there right now, that most of the people buy there dogs from would be considered a puppy mill...Wouldn't you say??

[MMK]

MMK,

With this post I would have to say that...Pat Patrick, T. Garner, Tant, Townsend and every other top breeder out there right now, that most of the people buy there dogs from would be considered a puppy mill...Wouldn't you say??they were all puppy mills in my opinion. they have sold more dogs than i would ever even care to see. one thing i can say about thme though is that all exept t. garner (just bought everyone elses dog) made themselfs a name in the breed before breeding the hell out of there quality dogs. and they bred there dogs true. no matter who they are i still dont think it is right.
MMK

btw jman stay out of any of my threads. i dont want u in any of my threads

[KURUPT]

they were all puppy mills in my opinion. they have sold more dogs than i would ever even care to see. one thing i can say about thme though is that all exept t. garner (just bought everyone elses dog) made themselfs a name in the breed before breeding the hell out of there quality dogs. and they bred there dogs true. no matter who they are i still dont think it is right.
MMK

btw jman stay out of any of my threads. i dont want u in any of my threads


LOL the Jman remark was funny.....Anyway what do you mean???? Pat Patrick stole Bolio and bought Tombstone..Townsand bought Cujo from Cates'... Tant got his dogs from Chavis...Like I said on another post we all have got are dogs from someone...If your not in the Colby family youhave had to buy your dogs from someone..

[KURUPT]

And what about all these guys Hammonds, Hal, Southern kennels, Boyles, Marlowe, Crenshaw, White, Hargrove, St. Benidict and Mc Cool..Mc Cool even sold pups off Banjo's dad after he quit...

[rocksteady]

Thats always a bad choice to make. Now its like you are forced / Obligated to breed that dog regardless of how he /she turns out..and thats not what its about. I could see giving someone a older dog you knew had the potential and say hey..campaign and when (if) ready to breed, I want first pick or something..

I saw a post once from someone selling a female after she had her pups. the reason?? The female was dog aggressive and they didn't want those type of APBTs. But they bred her. Hmm..that to me is a bad breeder. Breeding a dog with traits you don't want ..and having adog with thse traits in the first place.

[BigTex]

Im not sticking up for tony or defending what he did....cuz i would have shot sack after he quit....but how many people do you know will cull a ROM dog? rascal quit, snooty quit,frisco quit (supposedly)finleys BO quit...i mean the lines goes on and on....in the whole scope of things your trying to breed winning dogs that get the job done...while i will never knowingly breed to a cur....if that cur has a couple gr ch and several ch out there....might influence your thinking a little bit

[J M A N]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_6_4.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)u just can't stop showing ur ass!

they were all puppy mills in my opinion. they have sold more dogs than i would ever even care to see. one thing i can say about thme though is that all exept t. garner (just bought everyone elses dog) made themselfs a name in the breed before breeding the hell out of there quality dogs. and they bred there dogs true. no matter who they are i still dont think it is right.

MMK

btw jman stay out of any of my threads. i dont want u in any of my threads

[PADogman]

The one neighbor guy in my area has blue pits for sale he never keeps any of them and his asking price is way to much(1500) when i can go out and get a better pedigree dog from a more responsible breeder for 1/3 the cost.And it will be a much better dog cause i know there healthy cause his dogs come with health certificate and have been Vet checked the neighbor guy cant say the same.So i would definitly not recommend him to anybody or any other breeders of his kind.Those are the kinda of people that should not be breeding these dogs or any other dogs for that matter.

[KURUPT]

Im not sticking up for tony or defending what he did....cuz i would have shot sack after he quit....but how many people do you know will cull a ROM dog? rascal quit, snooty quit,frisco quit (supposedly)finleys BO quit...i mean the lines goes on and on....in the whole scope of things your trying to breed winning dogs that get the job done...while i will never knowingly breed to a cur....if that cur has a couple gr ch and several ch out there....might influence your thinking a little bit

I wasn't putting him down for that he did want he wanted to with his dogs and that's his choice. My point was that a lot of people want to throw the puppy peddler or puppy mill words around, so EZ...When everyone one of those breeders I mentioned have sold alot of dogs and if it wasn't for them doing that we wouldn't have the dogs we have today....And yes a lil more then a few (ROM) producers were Curs...From Snooty to Frisco....

[LA_Headhunters]

Excluding Frisco most if not all the ROM producers won conviencingly before they quit Correct me if I'm wrong saying MOST.

[Bubba]

Excluding Frisco most if not all the ROM producers won conviencingly before they quit Correct me if I'm wrong saying MOST.Rascal quit his first I thought...and it was chaulked up to the heat and his age...
BB

[KURUPT]

Rascal quit his first I thought...and it was chaulked up to the heat and his age...
BB

Yup and it was always said Snooty was aaaaaa piece of well you know:D The others did win some good ones before they quit, but they still quit right???

[Bubba]

Yup and it was always said Snooty was aaaaaa piece of well you know:D The others did win some good ones before they quit, but they still quit right???Hey now lol we got alot of snooty stuff over here lol
BB

[KURUPT]

Hey now lol we got alot of snooty stuff over here lol
BB


lolololol aaaaaahhhhh sorry bro lolol...He did produce good tho lol

[J M A N]

You have to admit that the Snooty/Eli crosses did throw some good dogs.

[masta of game]

i love the eli stuff from mexico