Bite work

[Bluepit50]

O.k. lets discuss opinions of doing bite work with pitbulls. Now we all know that pits love games that have to do with pulling and all kinds of bite work. They love it and will do it all day if they could. Now it's important to exercise the dogs and bite work is something the dogs really enjoy and lets them work their bite. Spring poles comes with some risks of injuries as well as a few other things. I personally have done some bite work with a bite sleeve as my dogs instantly loved the challenge and training I did with them this past weekkend. Not only is it safe because of the special material that they make into it but I was easily able to teach them to release on command, which is 1 of the most important things to train a pit to do. I also am able to advance their training with obedience, they must remain still when told, they can work the sleeve when commanded, they must release immediately when told, and all kinds of games and challenges can be created to keep your dogs focused and learning.

Now here's the question, some believe a bite sleeve and k-9 training should not be mixed with pits because of the bad image they have. I say that pits can excel in many areas on training and events including k-9 training, as i've personally seen many do great. I prefer to keep my training at a personal level and just for the sake of working the dogs in the yard. I don't think they should be used in real life k-9 training, just as a form of bite work, training, obedience, and a fun game that the dogs love. My dogs know that the bite sleeve is just like anything else I can hold, a rope, a tire, a towels, ect. to play tug of war or for bite work. The way I do it they are'nt simulating attacking me, they just want to grab the sleeve and challenge me to a game of pulling and working their mouth just like anything else. What I like is that they won't injure their teeth like most other things, atleast if you got a good sleeve thats made correctly.

I know some will oppose anything to do with k-9 training on pits, but what do you think about a bite sleeve being used only personally and as a form of bite work, obedience, and training. (Not as attack training!!!!!!!!!) Please don't confuse my post with attack training, there are so many forms of training and commands I was easily able to do with the dogs.

[Scotsman]

Why would you want to you a sleeve for bite work on a game bred dog? Sounds like you'd be asking for trouble in the long run. I understand what you are saying just doesn't seem logical to me.

[Bluepit50]

When used correctly there are many benefits of training that can be given to dogs using a sleeve. I just want everyones opinion on the subject, as some want pits seperated from it simply because of the image factor.

[Kay]

Well, since you asked for opinions....lol
I don't think that ANY pit bull should be encouraged and "taught" and praised for attacking humans.
JMO and 2 cents

[NORTH]

what if the dog mistaking something in or on your arm for the sleeve goes for the bite. I know ive had some very intense dogs that would hit anything resembling a toy or something they have played with before.

[miakoda]

get a Presa

[Bluepit50]

Well, since you asked for opinions....lol
I don't think that ANY pit bull should be encouraged and "taught" and praised for attacking humans.
JMO and 2 cents
Please understand that there's a difference between training the dogs to attack an individual, (such as with the police dogs), and usind a bite sleeve purely as other forms of bite work, training, obedience, ect. When I train my dogs they are not going at me, only the sleeve, as they think its a game and they see the sleeve as a toy. Without getting into detail with all the forms of training, just know that i'm suggesting methods that have nothing to do with attack training. Some may not know these if they have'nt personally have had any experience around anyone training dogs with these. Just know that there are many benefits that can help you greatly with quickly advancing your dog through its obedience level and how greatly it works them mentally and physically when done correctly.

[miakoda]

I believe that ANY dog doing bit work should be working under a PROFESSIONAL Schutzhund trainer. "Street training" is a half-ass way to go.

And if someone wants something that looks like a pit bull and smells like a pit bull to do bite work with, get a Presa Canario or in some cases, a Ca da Bou. These dogs are born with that natural guarding instinct. No sense taking our breed into a directions that our forefathers tried so very hard to steer it away from.

[Kay]

Please understand that there's a difference between training the dogs to attack an individual, (such as with the police dogs), and usind a bite sleeve purely as other forms of bite work, training, obedience, ect. When I train my dogs they are not going at me, only the sleeve, as they think its a game and they see the sleeve as a toy.
Yep I know what you mean....But see BigGuy211's post. This is exactly what you want to avoid. Again, just my opinion :)

[chainsoff]

I know some will oppose anything to do with k-9 training on pits, but what do you think about a bite sleeve being used only personally and as a form of bite work, obedience, and training. (Not as attack training!!!!!!!!!) Please don't confuse my post with attack training, there are so many forms of training and commands I was easily able to do with the dogs.What?? The dogs are catching YOU and biting YOU, even though there's a sleeve sepeating YOUR ARM and their mouth. The fact is, they are still attacking, and biting a HUMAN. You should not be instilling this in these dogs. Being a RESPONSIBLE apbt owner, you should NEVER encourage biting of humans.

[TabDogs]

why the hell would you want to do bite work with an APBT??? Do you really think that looks good in the public(media) eye??? With all the bullshit going on now...Why would you want people to think you are training"vicious(sp) pitbulls"????Cause that is what they are going to think whether you like it or not. I am totally agianst APBT's doing bite work..PERIOD.We dont need a story aired on the 11 o'clock news saying"vicious pitbulls being trained to attack". If you want a dog that is good at bite work get a Shepherd, Mal, Presa, Rottie, or Dobie..NOT an APBT. I also VERY much agree with what Mia said about this form of training should be done under the supervision of a LICENSED Trainer..Not in your backyard to look cool and terrify your neighbors.

[Zoe]

I don't have a problem with training a pit for bite work IF {and that is a big IF} you really know what you are doing. I am definitely against it if you are using defense drive with pits. If you use prey drive which they already have a ton of and you do it properly I do believe they will see it like a game. In fact I have heard people who do this say they won't even react unless the sleeve was there so essentially even with bite work they make lame guard dogs lol. I am totally against using defense drive in pits for this. Definitely a good way to skrew up a good dog. I used to have a cool tape for protection training pits and they started out real young as puppies, big emphasis on positive obedience training, lots of cool games to build up prey drive, LOTS of socializing so they have a great perspective of a real world, and they didn't even get into sleeve work until well into adulthood. Once the out command was given the dog could play and wrestle with the agitator with no problems. I think a pit of solid temperment who is dealt with properly would have great fun at this. I know my girl Venus would of rocked at it. I used to wrestle harsh with her wearing a leather jacket and she stop on command and knew it was a game. She never tried to do it to anyone else. She understood it was play and she was trained that only I initiated play like that. I guess the key is having not only someone who really knows how to handle a dog in that type of situation and a dog with bomb proof temperment and GREAT training and socializing. Without all those things in place I could see it being a problem though. I actually looked into doing that with Venus but the place that did it near me used defense drive and basically made a living at making dogs paranoid enough to bite....

[Bluepit50]

What?? The dogs are catching YOU and biting YOU, even though there's a sleeve sepeating YOUR ARM and their mouth. The fact is, they are still attacking, and biting a HUMAN. You should not be instilling this in these dogs. Being a RESPONSIBLE apbt owner, you should NEVER encourage biting of humans.
Like I said before i'm not using attack dog training methods which is completely different. I will assume that there are not many people with first hand experience with this type of training with another dog trainer. I do think the bad image pits have greatly effect people's opinions but I do know that my dogs love the training and in no way are being taught to attack people, i'm simply not using those methods. I've seen alot of improvements in my dogs control and obedience using methods from a friend who trains dogs and where I bring my dogs. My dogs love it and its a game to them, I for one am the one holding the sleeve during training, not a stranger. If they ever showed aggression towards me they know what will happen, lol. Seriously, I keep the sleeve as a game for them and they like working it just like anything else I can hold for them to work. But we will just go with the sleeve not being good to use because it will teach the dogs to attack people, no problem.

[nappydawg]

hmmm not sure some really good points here it could be bad if the dog mistakes something else for a sleeve and does some real dammage there is the whole media thing hmm i say no better things to do sorry blue jmo no good no good at all

[Bluepit50]

why the hell would you want to do bite work with an APBT??? Do you really think that looks good in the public(media) eye??? With all the bullshit going on now...Why would you want people to think you are training"vicious pitbulls"????Cause that is what they are going to think whether you like it or not. I am totally agianst APBT's doing bite work..PERIOD. If you want a dog that is good at bite work get a Shepherd, Mal, Presa, Rottie, or Dobie..NOT an APBT. I also VERY much agree with what Mia said about this form of training should be done under the supervision of a LISENCED Trainer..Not in your backyard to look cool and terrify your neighbors.
I just want opinions and I did state for personal use and training. The person who I go to is a professional trainer, I don't own a bite sleeve.

[Rockstar]

This is a neverending debate.

"I believe that ANY dog doing bit work should be working under a PROFESSIONAL Schutzhund trainer. "Street training" is a half-ass way to go."
I fully agree with Mia's statement. Having been through such training myself, I won't personally recommend bite work for an APBT, but I can't object to it either, knowing firsthand how stable and controllable a professionally trained dog can be.

[Bluepit50]

I don't have a problem with training a pit for bite work IF {and that is a big IF} you really know what you are doing. I am definitely against it if you are using defense drive with pits. If you use prey drive which they already have a ton of and you do it properly I do believe they will see it like a game. In fact I have heard people who do this say they won't even react unless the sleeve was there so essentially even with bite work they make lame guard dogs lol. I am totally against using defense drive in pits for this. Definitely a good way to skrew up a good dog. I used to have a cool tape for protection training pits and they started out real young as puppies, big emphasis on positive obedience training, lots of cool games to build up prey drive, LOTS of socializing so they have a great perspective of a real world, and they didn't even get into sleeve work until well into adulthood. Once the out command was given the dog could play and wrestle with the agitator with no problems. I think a pit of solid temperment who is dealt with properly would have great fun at this. I know my girl Venus would of rocked at it. I used to wrestle harsh with her wearing a leather jacket and she stop on command and knew it was a game. She never tried to do it to anyone else. She understood it was play and she was trained that only I initiated play like that. I guess the key is having not only someone who really knows how to handle a dog in that type of situation and a dog with bomb proof temperment and GREAT training and socializing. Without all those things in place I could see it being a problem though. I actually looked into doing that with Venus but the place that did it near me used defense drive and basically made a living at making dogs paranoid enough to bite....
Very good post! lol. I agree with how you put it and how i've started a couple dogs with it is through a trainer. They love it and are gaining alot of solid control and advancing their obedience to another level. I'm not talking about attack training as most are use to seeing.

[Rockstar]

I don't have a problem with training a pit for bite work IF {and that is a big IF} you really know what you are doing. I am definitely against it if you are using defense drive with pits. If you use prey drive which they already have a ton of and you do it properly I do believe they will see it like a game. In fact I have heard people who do this say they won't even react unless the sleeve was there so essentially even with bite work they make lame guard dogs lol. I am totally against using defense drive in pits for this. Definitely a good way to skrew up a good dog. I used to have a cool tape for protection training pits and they started out real young as puppies, big emphasis on positive obedience training, lots of cool games to build up prey drive, LOTS of socializing so they have a great perspective of a real world, and they didn't even get into sleeve work until well into adulthood. Once the out command was given the dog could play and wrestle with the agitator with no problems. I think a pit of solid temperment who is dealt with properly would have great fun at this. I know my girl Venus would of rocked at it. I used to wrestle harsh with her wearing a leather jacket and she stop on command and knew it was a game. She never tried to do it to anyone else. She understood it was play and she was trained that only I initiated play like that. I guess the key is having not only someone who really knows how to handle a dog in that type of situation and a dog with bomb proof temperment and GREAT training and socializing. Without all those things in place I could see it being a problem though. I actually looked into doing that with Venus but the place that did it near me used defense drive and basically made a living at making dogs paranoid enough to bite....
A dog won't make it through training if it uses its defense drive, as opposed to its prey drive.

[Bluepit50]

This is a neverending debate.

"I believe that ANY dog doing bit work should be working under a PROFESSIONAL Schutzhund trainer. "Street training" is a half-ass way to go."
I fully agree with Mia's statement. Having been through such training myself, I won't personally recommend bite work for an APBT, but I can't object to it either, knowing firsthand how stable and controllable a professionally trained dog can be.


That's one thing I admire with his dogs. He has trained dogs of all types and having a pit that learns to release on command and many other good solid skills and control is what i'm aiming for. Offcourse he is my friend and is the one doing the actual training, i'm just going through it with him as they are my dogs and I want to get the results i'm looking for. So far they've done wonderful, and he makes sure it stays a fun game for the dogs at all time, no aggression is allowed.

[Bluepit50]

Keep your opinions honest and open minded, I respect everyone here and its important to me to hear from all you. Remember I want to help the breed, so if this is a bad idea than I just want to understand why. Also keep in mind this is through a professional trainer and myself helping, and i'm looking at only methods that improve control and obedience, no public involment.

[Rockstar]

Don't forget that 50% of it is training you as a handler.

[o-dub]

What?? The dogs are catching YOU and biting YOU, even though there's a sleeve sepeating YOUR ARM and their mouth. The fact is, they are still attacking, and biting a HUMAN. You should not be instilling this in these dogs. Being a RESPONSIBLE apbt owner, you should NEVER encourage biting of humans.
chainsoff, i see your point, but why should anyone encourage biting of humans in german shepards, or any other breed?

[GrCh_Jeff]

lmao..well blue you done up and went and done it...i bet you hit a nerve with 99.9% of the people here.lmao.you really know how to rawl em up.lol

[JCleve86]

I find it almost hysterical that people on a GAME DOG forum are concerned about the public's perception of bite work. Give me a frickin' break.

The dog IS NOT being trained to attack. Bitework and attack training are two completely seperate things. Only the soundest pit bulls should even be considered for bite work, since it requires a dog who CAN bite and bark in play, and not become aggressive. This type of training does not make a dog aggressive either. It's like arguing that playing tug with your dog will make him aggressive. No...if you have a sound dog, he's going to think your playing tug, not threatening him.

Schutz. dogs definitely know that the sleeve is what they bite...I've seen quite a few pictures of the dogs getting rewarded with the sleeve, and they'll run around the field with the sleeve in their mouths like it's the coolest thing on earth. And guess what...they don't try to attack the arm of the person who was wearing the sleeve.

It bugs me when people give their dogs too much credit ("I know he understands what I'm saying when I talk to him"), but you guys just aren't giving them enough. They know the difference between playing and seriousness. Diane Jessup's boy Dread was titled up the wazzu in bite sports and ALSO in therapy work...so let's not even pretend that bite sport dogs aren't sound.

If it's not for you, that's perfectly fine (it's not something I'm interested in). But don't try to argue against it with irrational theories.

[jawbones]

I wouldn't own a mean dog. I have on right now that is acting a little squirlier than I like and she's about to be culled

[Bluepit50]

I find it almost hysterical that people on a GAME DOG forum are concerned about the public's perception of bite work. Give me a frickin' break.

The dog IS NOT being trained to attack. Bitework and attack training are two completely seperate things. Only the soundest pit bulls should even be considered for bite work, since it requires a dog who CAN bite and bark in play, and not become aggressive. This type of training does not make a dog aggressive either. It's like arguing that playing tug with your dog will make him aggressive. No...if you have a sound dog, he's going to think your playing tug, not threatening him.

Schutz. dogs definitely know that the sleeve is what they bite...I've seen quite a few pictures of the dogs getting rewarded with the sleeve, and they'll run around the field with the sleeve in their mouths like it's the coolest thing on earth. And guess what...they don't try to attack the arm of the person who was wearing the sleeve.

It bugs me when people give their dogs too much credit ("I know he understands what I'm saying when I talk to him"), but you guys just aren't giving them enough. They know the difference between playing and seriousness. Diane Jessup's boy Dread was titled up the wazzu in bite sports and ALSO in therapy work...so let's not even pretend that bite sport dogs aren't sound.

If it's not for you, that's perfectly fine (it's not something I'm interested in). But don't try to argue against it with irrational theories.
Now that's what i'm talking about, you put it better than me, thanks

[GrCh_Jeff]

blues an idiot...bad owner ..lmao

[GrCh_Jeff]

you know im just clownin on ya blue..lmao

[nappydawg]

blue has issues we cannot even discuss he needs alots of help by a trained professional

[jsalas68]

I totally agree

[Bluepit50]

will you all chip in to get me looked at? My mom gave up, I need some love, "Bluepitt50 is crying" maybe I need culled! lol

[Zoe]

lol.................

[Kay]

lol...but he's got such a big heart and innocent boyish charm, who can resist him?

[HighRoller]

What?? The dogs are catching YOU and biting YOU, even though there's a sleeve sepeating YOUR ARM and their mouth. The fact is, they are still attacking, and biting a HUMAN. You should not be instilling this in these dogs. Being a RESPONSIBLE apbt owner, you should NEVER encourage biting of humans.
AMEN Chainsoff! Teaching THIS breed bite work goes AGAINST everything THIS breed was founded upon!!

[D.R KING]

I don't think training a pitbull to bite nothing on a human is smart. What happens when they miss? Ouch...

[thablacksheep]

I agree chainsoff, kay and miakoda. No matter how you put it, the dog is going after a human, thats the whole purpose of this training. this type of training isnt suppose to be fun, that's strictly business. Can you imagine our breed trained with the sleeve in a pit with it's handlerer trien to get the dogs loose, he'll rip that damn arm off. period. No need to explore methods of training when the guide was all ready laid down for us to practice.

[chainsoff]

No offense BluePitt, but you probably shouldn't have these dogs, if bite work is your interest. The "fun" you think your giving them, is only creating a loose cannon. Despite all the rebutles you may come up with, "oh, they release on command", "they know what will happen if they attack", whatever. What you are doing with this breed is STUPID! If this is what you want to do, get a german shepard, or presa, NOT the APBT.

[TabDogs]

I find it almost hysterical that people on a GAME DOG forum are concerned about the public's perception of bite work. Give me a frickin' break..
Why shouldn't we be concerned? When the "public" sees a APBT doing bite work whats the first thing they are gonna think of??? HUmmm "oh my god look at that vicious pit bull being trained to attack" THATS WHAT THEY ARE GONNA THINK...whether you wanna believe it or not. Then that person is going to call the police or HS and tell them someone is training a pit bull to attack...It is totally different for some one of the "public eye" to see a Shepherd or Mal doing bite work, then for them to see an APBT. Why risk giving the media a chance to run another story on the 11 o'clock news about our dogs????? If you want to help our breed then get a group of kids together and let them play in the park with an APBT, so the public can see that...

[MRS_FIFTY]

There are many posts on this thread that are pointing out the concern of a pit biting, and being trained to do so. This is currently taking place within our military, pits are being used and trained to possible replace the german shepard. If that is what a pit is being trained to do, right on, if a pit is recieving training of this nature in someones backyard or home, that's a little shady.

[GrCh_Jeff]

hell..its in the front yard..lmao

[Bluepit50]

hell..its in the front yard..lmao
Yeah so everyone can see!! j/k. keep it going everyone, I posted for opinions so don't think i'm starting some kind of pitbull task force. Remember i'm focusing of the other kinds of training from a dog trainer, nothing to do with attack training. Without going into long detail, I have seen from him many other forms of training and benefits. He trains different breeds and knows how to work with pits correctly, with pitbulls he focuses on keeping it a game and teaching advance obedience and control, the dogs don't chase people down as in other breeds and with attack training. Some may have never seen other methods other than police training, so it may be hard to picture. The dogs dont run and attack people, its totally different. Is there anyone that has first hand experience or has seen these other training methods being done? If so let me know what good or bad it seemed to do.

[miakoda]

Bitework and attack training are two completely seperate things. Only the soundest pit bulls should even be considered for bite work, You brought up a good point that only the soundest dogs should even be considered, so my question is this? Out of how many dogs in a training class did that pit bull beat out to become top dog to do bite work? How many months, sometimes a year, of obedience training did that dog do BEFORE it even saw a sleeve? Hmmm? It seems someone had a dog, wanted that dog to do bite work, & so did it. This is STREET TRAINING! When experienced people & trainers look at dogs to do bitework, they test many many dogs to find the very few who are actually mentally stable & physically capable. And experienced Schutzhund trainer doesn't just see a pretty dog he likes or owns & decides that dog is gonna get to chase someone, knock him done, & bite the hell out of 'em. But you see? The months of training, the strict requirements, & the PROFESSIONAL training are all left out.

Am I against any apbt ever doing Schutzhund? Not really. But am I against just any person taking one of their dogs & deciding what they're gonna do w/out the TRUE testing it requires all b/c some other dog trainer (who's probably NOT an experienced Schutzhund trainer) owns a sleeve & can rile a dog up enough to get him to bite. The bite work & sleeve work is a reward for the most dedicated, obedient, & trained dogs. These dogs are tested over & over again before they even see a sleeve. Unfortunately, any Joe Blow can go buy a sleeve & get a dog to bite on it. That's not too hard. But making sure & KNOWING that you have the RIGHT dog to do so is not something very many people know how to do.

So unless someone actually has their dog enrolled in Schutzhund training classes done by a qualified professional, I don't want to see it. It's irresponsible and it's the easy way out that will one day result in a major catastrophy in which every apbt owner will feel.

I find it almost hysterical that people on a GAME DOG forum are concerned about the public's perception of bite work. Give me a frickin' break
And if you think this is just oh so funny, why don't you just laugh yourself right on outta here!

[Saiyagin]

Bite work nick nack paddy whack give a dog a bone lol.

[rocksteady]

I couldnt have said it bettter myself mia!!
We all know a pit bull can take down a human. John Q public hasnt gotten a SLIGHTEST clue about bite work and what it entails. All they see is a dog attacking someone. Most people think those types of dogs are MEAN and Vicious .
(however ,when they see a dog with say police or other uniformed person doing work, they tend to accept that better..but still, most people will say police dogs are mean. .)

I love watching Shutzhund dogs perform. But it isnt the bite work..its the obedience, agility, tracking that is amazing.

Since mia said it all lol, I'll stop now

[440rider]

why do you want everyone to see what appears to be "attack training" on the sidewalk/lawn and a dog raging in the street (from gallery pics)? Isn't GA proposing a ban on bulldogs? Not sure this will help oppose it.

[Bluepit50]

why do you want everyone to see what appears to be "attack training" on the sidewalk/lawn and a dog raging in the street (from gallery pics)? Isn't GA proposing a ban on bulldogs? Not sure this will help oppose it.Which gallery pics? there's a pic in mine and it says "my friends Presa Canario" just wondering if you seen pics here like that.

[440rider]

blues son (dog raging in the middle of the street) and dirty (sleeve work in the yard) pics in you gallery

[Bluepit50]

blues son (dog raging in the middle of the street) and dirty (sleeve work in the yard) pics in you gallery
Yeah, Dirty is the Presa Canario I spoke of. Blues son raging in the street? Don't know what he's raging about, was'nt there.

[JCleve86]

Couldn't agree more Mia. It's folks who do just pick a big bad dog and decide to do bitework with him that make it look bad. It takes A LOT of searching and KNOWING what your looking for to even find a dog who had the drive and temperament and trainability to do bitework, and that's only the beginning.

Some of ya'll seemed to have completely missed the point of my first statement...so let me break it down for ya. Some of you are involved in a sport that, whether misunderstood or not, is what most people view as the animal world's biggest enemy, and yet ya'll will say "Oh, bite work will make us look bad" ... it's just a *bit* hypocritical.