2 pups to be farmed out

[dhcrew]

i was wondering if any of you would be interested in fostering and raising a couple of my pups. raise them for whatever purpose you want, and let me know what you think, i got alot of sh#t about my ethics and practice, and i was wondering if any of you would like to try to back up what you say. put my dogs to the test, and see what they can do?

no cost to the foster yard except maybe shipping. but foster yard MUST keep in contact with me about pup.

i have a red rednose male out of my babygurl, and a fawn with a black mask female out of my staffie by my rudy

[dhcrew]

i was wondering if any of you would be interested in fostering and raising a couple of my pups. raise them for whatever purpose you want, and let me know what you think, i got alot of sh#t about my ethics and practice, and i was wondering if any of you would like to try to back up what you say. put my dogs to the test, and see what they can do?

no cost to the foster yard except maybe shipping. but foster yard MUST keep in contact with me about pup.

i have a red rednose male out of my babygurl, and a fawn with a black mask female out of my staffie by my rudy

oh ya, they are 9 months old right now

[JC-Pitbulls]

I'm curious, what exactly are you trying to get out of this.

[The Watcher]

FARMOUT? Staffie X Pit?

[Texasbulldogs]

"I'm curious, what exactly are you trying to get out of this."
Your address!

[The Watcher]

"I'm curious, what exactly are you trying to get out of this."
Your address!lol, true true

[rocksteady]

"to do whatever you want with them"
LOL bury them

[JC-Pitbulls]

FARMOUT? Staffie X Pit?\

My thoughts exactly.

[GrChPitBitch]

I sure as HELL wouldnt feed one of those mutt midgets... given to me or not!! If I want another damn cur, Ill go to the pound....
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSzeb001) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSzeb001) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSzeb001) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSzeb001)


"to do whatever you want with them"
LOL bury them

[JC-Pitbulls]

I sure as HELL wouldnt feed one of those mutt midgets... given to me or not!! If I want another damn cur, Ill go to the pound....




http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSzeb001) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSzeb001) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSzeb001) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSzeb001)
GrChPitBitch, you are on a roll today, keep it up I like it.

[The Watcher]

wrote a lil song about it..wanna hear it? here it go-

dont throw ur trash in my back yard, my back yard, my back yard;
dont throw ur trash in my back yard, my back yards' full!
thanks- JFO-

[GrChPitBitch]

LMAO!! Awesome Fifty!! It should be Game-Dog.com theme song... he he he...



wrote a lil song about it..wanna hear it? here it go-

dont throw ur trash in my back yard, my back yard, my back yard;
dont throw ur trash in my back yard, my back yards' full!
thanks- JFO-

[dhcrew]

LMAO!! Awesome Fifty!! It should be Game-Dog.com theme song... he he he...



are you all this afraid that my dogs may just be good dogs?? i guess so, i wasnt planning to place these 2 pups, they were going to stay here so i could prove them myself, but since you all are so into bashing my yard out of ignorance, i figured you would welcome the opportunity to prove me wrong. i guess now you will NEVER KNOW until one day when someone has a dog off my yard and it kiks the shit out of your dogs in whatever sport they are competeing in. oh well.


to those open minded enough to handle it, the offer remains.

[GrChPitBitch]

Thanks JC!! LOL
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_3_1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSzeb001)



GrChPitBitch, you are on a roll today, keep it up I like it.

[dhcrew]

I'm curious, what exactly are you trying to get out of this.
out of this, i would get to prove to some of you that my dogs are indeed worth the food i feed them everyday. i get to show you all that yes my dogs are good dogs. and that is all i would want out of it, the dog could even come back to me after it has proven itself if the foster yard doesnt want to keep it. you are all so fast to judge what you dont know that i find it very hard to believe none of you are willing to stand up and try to prove me wrong.


anyone who plans to do anything like what was posted on this thread, doesnt deserve to even own one pit let alone have a whole yard of them. i feel for your dogs.

[GrChPitBitch]

Were are you located??



are you all this afraid that my dogs may just be good dogs?? i guess so, i wasnt planning to place these 2 pups, they were going to stay here so i could prove them myself, but since you all are so into bashing my yard out of ignorance, i figured you would welcome the opportunity to prove me wrong. i guess now you will NEVER KNOW until one day when someone has a dog off my yard and it kiks the shit out of your dogs in whatever sport they are competeing in. oh well.


to those open minded enough to handle it, the offer remains.

[dhcrew]

Were are you located??


if you honestly think i will tell YOU that, then you are nuts, i am in the southwest and arent you one who said they would kill one of my dogs, you will NOT be getting one GRCH

[SFK]

dhcrew, what I don't believe you understand is it takes years to establish a good family of dogs working with known & proven bloodlines. Why should I or anyone else gamble on feeding unregistered AST mixes for 2 yrs just to find out what I know will come of it? I'd much rather keep feeding what I know is going to work for me. Because it has worked for my mentor, & his mentor so on and so forth. I mean no disrespect but you really don't understand anything about the background of these dogs or their true purpose.

[GrChPitBitch]

dosnt hurt my fealings any...
But I would like to remind everyone what crew is breeding for...
DWARF PITS...
You think a dwarf pit is going to win a confirmation show??
DHCrew Kennels :: Home of Family Raised American Pit Bull Terriers (http://www.freewebs.com/dhcrewkennels/)
Especially one that looks like your male!! Are you sure that is a full blooded pit bull?? LMFAO

[dhcrew]

dhcrew, what I don't believe you understand is it takes years to establish a good family of dogs working with known & proven bloodlines. Why should I or anyone else gamble on feeding unregistered AST mixes for 2 yrs just to find out what I know will come of it? I'd much rather keep feeding what I know is going to work for me. Because it has worked for my mentor, & his mentor so on and so forth. I mean no disrespect but you really don't understand anything about the background of these dogs or their true purpose.

what i really dont understand is this, WHY are you all thinking im so ignorant? i have read about and studied these dogs almost since i could read, im 32 years old, and i wish i could have been around back in the day, im not stupid, i know where these dogs come from, what you all dont seem to understand is to me there is NO DIFFERENCE between the dogs you raise and the dogs i choose to feed, mine are just prettier. im asking some of you to prove it to yourselves.

[dhcrew]

dosnt hurt my fealings any...
But I would like to remind everyone what crew is breeding for...
DWARF PITS...
You think a dwarf pit is going to win a confirmation show??
DHCrew Kennels :: Home of Family Raised American Pit Bull Terriers (http://www.freewebs.com/dhcrewkennels/)
Especially one that looks like your male!! Are you sure that is a full blooded pit bull?? LMFAO



yes i am, are you sure your dogs papers arent hung?? cuz im not....just as anyone else it is so easy to hang papers, and i have 2 different lines or didnt you read any of my other posts, i have a short line for weightpull, and my DUAL REG staffie/pit she is akc and ukc and adba reg so WHAT EXACTLY does that make her, well, to me she is a proven bitch and that is all that matters,


at least she is proven, there are some bitches on here that have yet to prove they are even human with feelings,....lol

[The Watcher]

out of this, i would get to prove to some of you that my dogs are indeed worth the food i feed them everyday. i get to show you all that yes my dogs are good dogs. and that is all i would want out of it, the dog could even come back to me after it has proven itself if the foster yard doesnt want to keep it. you are all so fast to judge what you dont know that i find it very hard to believe none of you are willing to stand up and try to prove me wrong.


anyone who plans to do anything like what was posted on this thread, doesnt deserve to even own one pit let alone have a whole yard of them. i feel for your dogs.why dont u prove UR OWN DOGS then u wont have to advertise"2 pups to be farmed out"

[miakoda]

REMINDER OF THE IGNORANCE WE SAW IN A PREVIOUS THREAD. HER WORDS ARE QUOTED.


Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">have you rescued any apbts from the local aspca recently, i make this a common occurance, not to mention retraining "problem dogs" so they can have a second chance. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
As a matter of fact, I have. I teamed up w/a friend & fellow apbt lover to start the Louisiana APBT Rescue. Check us out on www.petfinder.com (http://www.petfinder.com/) if you don't believe me. And in addition to fostering these dogs & paying for medical treatments including spaying & neutering, I have kept 2 of them (Sukari & Dakota); they are completely deaf & were bred for their white color (what's wrong w/doing that besides the fact that health probs also come along w/this). They spent the first 4 months of their lives chained up on chains that weighed more than they do. They were to be euthanized due issues associated w/lack of socialization & neglect until I stepped in to keep them. I also take several of the dogs in foster to obedience classes to help them get a jump start. I take pride in this work.
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">at least i am not populating the world with "game bred" dogs for street thugs to abuse, neglect, and drive crazy so they go out and attack the first thing that runs from them, those are the people you should be angry with. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Nor am I. When & if I do breed, I strive to keep the dog true to form & temperament. I keep 3/4 of the litters or they usually go to firiends homes that also use them for catch dogs, or weight pull dogs, & even as family pets. The ones that go as pets are spayed/neuters no buts about it. I do NOT use these dogs for illegal purposes, but my brothers lives DO depend on the athleticism, determination, & drive of this breed when it comes to boar hunting. I harness their drive & gameness on an animal that has only 1 goal in life: to kill whatever is in its way. Have you ever had a run in w/a wild boar? Then watch Old Yeller & tell me dogs should not be used for this. And if you think this breed is the only breed that enjoys "going after whatever runs from it" then you are mistaken. Dog aggression & small animal aggression is found in every terrier breed & many of the others as well.
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">have never made any money doing what i do, </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Neither have I. Money is not an issue when it comes to my dogs. That's why I, the owner, have a job.
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">dwarfism as a genetic defect is ONLY present in the alaskan malamute </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I would love to see some literature stating that fact. As a certified Vet. Tech. (NSU-Nachitoches) having a bachelor's in Pre-Physical Therapy/Exercise Science (SLU) & almost finished w/my masters in Endocrinologhy (LSU) this is the first I've heard of this. In school, we studied the case of a catahoula pup who was affected by chondrodysplasia (dwarfism--normal head & body, but short, stumpy legs...hmmm). Inherited chondrodysplasia is thought to be an autosomal recessive trait. Dwarfism can also occur b/c of delevopemental abnormalities of the pituitary gland. Although this defect can be likely to affect one breed over another, it's not restricted to one breed. And there are currently other studies being done on various breeds i.e. the Cheasapeke Bay Retriever, GSD, Weimeriner, Cocker Spaniel, etc.

While I understand that miniatures are created by just breeding a small dog to another small dog (although many breed dwarfs to dwarfs & hope the recessive trait carries on), it takes many, many generations & an adapt knowledge of genetics. So study, study, study. Check out toy poodles & yorkies & poms & learn what genetic alterations are being done to get these mini dogs & also learn healthwise what it has done. We see more neurological, skeletal, & cardiological probs w/these minis than the "normal" size breed.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[miakoda]

& FOR ALL NEWBIES THIS IS HER IDEA OF AN "APBT"
hello, let me first say that i do not want to offend anyone with what im trying to do. the goal with my breeding program is to take a dog bred from UKC show lines and a dog bred from ADBA old game blood and re-introduce gameness into the pretty show dogs of today. basically undo all the damage that has been done to the very old pit bull bloodlines within the UKC and AKC. i do have a mentor breeder that is helping me along on my way, and i am asking for you all's opinions. i am in this for the long run, and i realize that heavy culling will have to be done. my mentor breeder also believes this will take me roughly 15 years to accomplish within my own blood. also, my mentor breeder is a "dogman". i want you all to give me your thoughts on this please try to do it without being too insulting to either me or my dogs. there are a couple people on this forum who may remember me from the "pit bull forum" through the APBR, and these people also know of my "dwarf" pit bull experiment. i have yet seen a bitch or dog as short as my own with good build. ok.........i will be waiting...

[dhcrew]

& FOR ALL NEWBIES THIS IS HER IDEA OF AN "APBT"
and WHAT is wrong with this post? i dont see anything wrong with it, we all have our own purposes and job descriptions for our dogs, what exactly makes me wrong and you right? NOTHING so BACK OFF


as for proving my own dogs, i do this all the time, they are all proven to me, except for the pups, i was offering you all a chance to see for yourselves what kind of dog i produce THATS ALL

[miakoda]

The problem is that the APBT is already a FORMED breed!!! You cannot create your own breed of genetic abnormalities & then call it an APBT! If you want to make a NEW BREED of dogs, have at it. But leave the term "APBT" out of it because that's NOT what it is!

[dhcrew]

REMINDER OF THE IGNORANCE WE SAW IN A PREVIOUS THREAD. HER WORDS ARE QUOTED.


Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;">have you rescued any apbts from the local aspca recently, i make this a common occurance, not to mention retraining "problem dogs" so they can have a second chance. </td></tr></tbody></table>
As a matter of fact, I have. I teamed up w/a friend & fellow apbt lover to start the Louisiana APBT Rescue. Check us out on www.petfinder.com (http://www.petfinder.com/) if you don't believe me. And in addition to fostering these dogs & paying for medical treatments including spaying & neutering, I have kept 2 of them (Sukari & Dakota); they are completely deaf & were bred for their white color (what's wrong w/doing that besides the fact that health probs also come along w/this). They spent the first 4 months of their lives chained up on chains that weighed more than they do. They were to be euthanized due issues associated w/lack of socialization & neglect until I stepped in to keep them. I also take several of the dogs in foster to obedience classes to help them get a jump start. I take pride in this work.
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;">at least i am not populating the world with "game bred" dogs for street thugs to abuse, neglect, and drive crazy so they go out and attack the first thing that runs from them, those are the people you should be angry with. </td></tr></tbody></table>
Nor am I. When & if I do breed, I strive to keep the dog true to form & temperament. I keep 3/4 of the litters or they usually go to firiends homes that also use them for catch dogs, or weight pull dogs, & even as family pets. The ones that go as pets are spayed/neuters no buts about it. I do NOT use these dogs for illegal purposes, but my brothers lives DO depend on the athleticism, determination, & drive of this breed when it comes to boar hunting. I harness their drive & gameness on an animal that has only 1 goal in life: to kill whatever is in its way. Have you ever had a run in w/a wild boar? Then watch Old Yeller & tell me dogs should not be used for this. And if you think this breed is the only breed that enjoys "going after whatever runs from it" then you are mistaken. Dog aggression & small animal aggression is found in every terrier breed & many of the others as well.
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;">have never made any money doing what i do, </td></tr></tbody></table>
Neither have I. Money is not an issue when it comes to my dogs. That's why I, the owner, have a job.
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;">dwarfism as a genetic defect is ONLY present in the alaskan malamute </td></tr></tbody></table>
I would love to see some literature stating that fact. As a certified Vet. Tech. (NSU-Nachitoches) having a bachelor's in Pre-Physical Therapy/Exercise Science (SLU) & almost finished w/my masters in Endocrinologhy (LSU) this is the first I've heard of this. In school, we studied the case of a catahoula pup who was affected by chondrodysplasia (dwarfism--normal head & body, but short, stumpy legs...hmmm). Inherited chondrodysplasia is thought to be an autosomal recessive trait. Dwarfism can also occur b/c of delevopemental abnormalities of the pituitary gland. Although this defect can be likely to affect one breed over another, it's not restricted to one breed. And there are currently other studies being done on various breeds i.e. the Cheasapeke Bay Retriever, GSD, Weimeriner, Cocker Spaniel, etc.

While I understand that miniatures are created by just breeding a small dog to another small dog (although many breed dwarfs to dwarfs & hope the recessive trait carries on), it takes many, many generations & an adapt knowledge of genetics. So study, study, study. Check out toy poodles & yorkies & poms & learn what genetic alterations are being done to get these mini dogs & also learn healthwise what it has done. We see more neurological, skeletal, & cardiological probs w/these minis than the "normal" size breed.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

and that was not ignorance, my short dogs dont have genetic dwarfism, they are bred down in size by selectively breeding the shortest dogs. and you talk like im going to try to create teacup pit bull, or is this what a pocket pit is? never heard of it, but what you dont realize is that my short line has only one purpose, that is weight pull, and they are excellent at it. actually i also have one short i take with me into the desert when i go out to catch reptiles. she is very good at digging them up...lol

[dhcrew]

why dont u prove UR OWN DOGS then u wont have to advertise"2 pups to be farmed out"
my dogs prove themselves to me everyday.

[The Watcher]

my dogs prove themselves to me everyday.
fish and chips and vinegar, vinegar, vinegar;
fish and chips and vinegar, pepper, pepper, pepper, SALT!

[miakoda]

my dwarfs pic didnt show up, here is my website, and you can see her on the females page.
http://www.freewebs.com/dhcrewkennels/


You used the term dwarf when describing your "APBT" (APBT=APBT+basset hound). I didn't bring it up. Then you had to go on & make a dumb comment about only 1 breed having dwarfism. You don't know what you think you know so save yourself the tongue lashing that many are gonna give you & quit acting like a know-it-all. None of us ever stated that we know everything, yet we ask questions that are thought out & have some degree of intelligence behind them. Also, I do have to agree w/most that it IS people like you who are helping to ruin this breed. You breed for a "novelty" & you breed to "get them out in the world". THAT'S PUPPY PEDDLING. THAT'S BACK YARD BREEDING! I despise what Peke-a-poos have done to both breeeds, I despise the registries (CKC) for registering them, but most of all I DESPISE THE BREEDERS FOR ONLY LOOKING TO CREATE A NOVELTY DOG ALL IN THE NAME OF $$$.

[dhcrew]

You used the term dwarf when describing your "APBT" (APBT=APBT+basset hound). I didn't bring it up. Then you had to go on & make a dumb comment about only 1 breed having dwarfism. You don't know what you think you know so save yourself the tongue lashing that many are gonna give you & quit acting like a know-it-all. None of us ever stated that we know everything, yet we ask questions that are thought out & have some degree of intelligence behind them. Also, I do have to agree w/most that it IS people like you who are helping to ruin this breed. You breed for a "novelty" & you breed to "get them out in the world". THAT'S PUPPY PEDDLING. THAT'S BACK YARD BREEDING! I despise what Peke-a-poos have done to both breeeds, I despise the registries (CKC) for registering them, but most of all I DESPISE THE BREEDERS FOR ONLY LOOKING TO CREATE A NOVELTY DOG ALL IN THE NAME OF $$$.
AND I DESPISE CLOSED MINDED IGNORANT INDIVIDUALS WHOSE ONLY JOY IN LIFE IS BASHING PEOPLE AND THEIR GOALS AND DOGS WHETHER THEY AGREE OR NOT.

[miakoda]

How am I bashing your goals? If your goal is to be a puppy peddling backyard breeder then YES I AM!!!

[CRG]

did this person breed an apbt and basset hound?

[chainsoff]

A goal that entails detroying an excellent breed, is one not worth reaching.

[rocksteady]

The problem is that the APBT is already a FORMED breed!!! You cannot create your own breed of genetic abnormalities & then call it an APBT! If you want to make a NEW BREED of dogs, have at it. But leave the term "APBT" out of it because that's NOT what it is!
Since someone on thos board is getting schooled lol, I give this post and A+++++++++

YEP DH..you simply cannot take the APBT, an already established breed with set stanards, and create your own and still call it an APBT. YOu have to name yer dog something else..sorry

I seriously DOUBT your dog can kick any other dogs butt ..even a dead dog
I'd bet money on a proven cur that up and quit in 5 minutes before I bet money on your "proven" dog. WHERES HIS TITLES?? WHERES THE RIBBONS? What the heck kind of weight pull did you enter him in? What does he do? Drop and roll?? With those legs it is almost IMPOSSIBLE for that dog to pull as much weight as a full size APBT. Sorry. DOnt you know anything about these dogs?? 80% of their power comes from the hind end which you took away at least 50%.. Its like dropping the motor to a Escort into F250 lol

If you want to experiment, keep it in your own back yard until its known to be completely free of defects, problems, then market it as something other than an established breed

AND PUT SOME DAMN PANTS ON BEFORE YOU TAKE ANOTHER PICTURE!!!

[rocksteady]

fish and chips and vinegar, vinegar, vinegar;
fish and chips and vinegar, pepper, pepper, pepper, SALT!
LOL Fifty you rock lol!!!

[The Watcher]

LOL Fifty you rock lol!!!lol, I dont even try and talk to 'em anymore. I jus give 'em a lil jingle...LOL

[dhcrew]

did this person breed an apbt and basset hound?
NO I DID NOT, I SELECTIVELY BRED SHORT DOGS UNTIL I GOT TO 13 1/2 INCHES.



AND UP UNTIL NOW I WAS KEEPING IT ON MY OWN YARD.


AND WHY SHOULD I CALL IT OTHER THAN WHAT IT IS, IT CAME FROM APBT, NOT ANY OTHER BREEDS, I USED APBT DOGS AND NOTHING ELSE. if i would have crossed any other breed, then it wouldnt be an apbt but i didnt, so that is what it is.

AND SHE HAS INCREDIBLE POWER IN HER REAR, ALONG WITH THE REST OF HER BODY, AND YES SHE CAN AND HAS KIKED THE SH#T OUT OF A FEW DOGS.

MOST SURPRISINGLY TO THE OTHER DOGS' OWNERS.

[dhcrew]

And Put Some Damn Pants On Before You Take Another Picture!!![/quote]

That Was Mature.......grow Up A Bit Before You End Up In Juvenile Hall.

[The Watcher]

DH- doesnt sound like ppl are taking to your *Re: 2 pups to be farmed out better jus hang this one up.

[dhcrew]

DH- doesnt sound like ppl are taking to your *Re: 2 pups to be farmed out better jus hang this one up.

actually i love the discussions on this board, even when the bashing is directed at me, im still just trying to keep up and stand up for myself, i WILL NEVER AND HAVE NEVER rolled belly up because a few people think im wrong, so what? they are entitled to feel and think the way they want, AND SO AM I, just as i am also entitled to defend myself and my dogs. but thats ok, apparently these people are afraid my dogs are actually good, so i will just have to keep proving them to myself.......:p:D:rolleyes:

[miakoda]

apparently these people are afraid my dogs are actually good, so i will just have to keep proving them to myself.aren't you OPPOSED to dogfighting? I gathered that from all your previous posts. And here you are blabbing to everyone else that your dog has killed all your neighbors dogs & yad, yada, yada. Just a few more reasons you don't need to be allowed to own this breed.

P.S.-Mia says make her day & bring it on!

[rocksteady]

LOL her dog couldnt kill a party

[The Watcher]

"apparently these people are afraid my dogs are actually good, so i will just have to keep proving them to myself "

Im not afraid they are good, throw up the ch ttls....

[dora]

i don't see where she mentioned her dog killing the neighbors.....:confused:
i see where she quoted


AND SHE HAS INCREDIBLE POWER IN HER REAR, ALONG WITH THE REST OF HER BODY, AND YES SHE CAN AND HAS KIKED THE SH#T OUT OF A FEW DOGS.

I think we all need to hug!!!:D
lol!!

[rocksteady]

looks like someone on here has admitted to fighting their dogs..
WHERE THE PETA POLICE???

[miakoda]

excuse me, her dog didn't "kill" it just "kicked it around a bit". hmmm......

And by the way, I would AGAIN like to state that it's people like YOU [dc] & this kind of shit be the reason why ALL of US will one day have the gov't banging on our doors demanding for us to hand over our dogs.

[dora]

lol i just didn't see what you had said....geesh!!!
i can see this is going to be a long debate...iza just kickin back and along for the ride.....smiles!!!!
hay miakota is the dog on your pic a female and by the way it is a good looking dog....no pun intended!!!!

[miakoda]

yes she's a she, dora! Thanks for the compliment. She was my old gal & favorite of all.

[dora]

your welcome!!!! when i see peeps in here get so mad it reminds me of that guy off of south park the teacher that gets really mad and his eye balls look like there blood shot and poppin out....lol!!!! i am in a good mood today so please don't take offence to anything i say!!!.... oh ya ...lol ...i normally don't watch south park....only when the hubby has it on i swear him he worse than a kid....lol!!!!!

[rocksteady]

I love south park lol

[dora]

o goddd!!!!!!!!!....lol another one... so you no what i am talkin about then with the man with the eye ball...lol

[rocksteady]

LOL

and Mr Twig!! (got to love a guy that talks to a twig lol) allthough I do miss Mr Hat , the 2 timer..

[dora]

you and my hubby are crazy!!!!!!!!!! flat out crazy...lmao!!!!

[SFK]

Yes I do love my south park! DH Crew can you please give me your definition of proven? I think that will clear up some of the apples to oranges confusion & frustration in alot of our viewpoints. Thank You,

[The Watcher]

DhCrew def. proven:"AND SHE HAS INCREDIBLE POWER IN HER REAR, ALONG WITH THE REST OF HER BODY, AND YES SHE CAN AND HAS KIKED THE SH#T OUT OF A FEW DOGS".

[rocksteady]

DhCrew def. proven:"AND SHE HAS INCREDIBLE POWER IN HER REAR, ALONG WITH THE REST OF HER BODY, AND YES SHE CAN AND HAS KIKED THE SH#T OUT OF A FEW DOGS".
the incredible power of passing gas lol

[AC]

Ignorance is bliss but not in this case LOL I am at a loss for words other than if you don't know what the heck you are doing do the whole world a favor and spay and neuter your pets. Plenty of animals bred for color and size in the pound. Go get one and love it.

[HCK]

Just remember..."Don't put your trash in my backyard, my backyard, my backyard, because it is full. :p LOLactually i love the discussions on this board, even when the bashing is directed at me, im still just trying to keep up and stand up for myself, i WILL NEVER AND HAVE NEVER rolled belly up because a few people think im wrong, so what? they are entitled to feel and think the way they want, AND SO AM I, just as i am also entitled to defend myself and my dogs. but thats ok, apparently these people are afraid my dogs are actually good, so i will just have to keep proving them to myself.......:p:D:rolleyes:

[GrChPitBitch]

This makes my head hurt.....

[dhcrew]

aren't you OPPOSED to dogfighting? I gathered that from all your previous posts. And here you are blabbing to everyone else that your dog has killed all your neighbors dogs & yad, yada, yada. Just a few more reasons you don't need to be allowed to own this breed.

P.S.-Mia says make her day & bring it on!

i have NEVER said my dogs have killed or even attacked ANY other dog, i was talking about weight pulling. and in rudys case, ATTS testing, and also agility, and in newport and babygurls cases, spring pole "hang time"

[dhcrew]

the incredible power of passing gas lol

ACTUALLY SHE HAS THAT AS WELL OMG this dog can stink up the whole yard!!!! LOL

[dhcrew]

Just remember..."Don't put your trash in my backyard, my backyard, my backyard, because it is full. :p LOL

one mans trash is another mans treasure.........;)

[Deep south]

one mans trash is another mans treasure.........;) Very true as well .....hey man if you like what you have then that is all that matters

[Deep south]

PS: one of the best Pit Bulls I ever seen was kind of on the short side a hog dog that stayed on no matter what

[dhcrew]

ok, you guys dont have to agree with me, and i dont expect you to, but i have only been raising and training these dogs for 5 years, i spent my life reading about them, and even training a few of my friends and familys dogs before i searched for and found the foundation dogs i wanted to build my own bloodline of weightpulling athletes. i didnt realize that when i said "proven" you all would assume i was fighting my dogs...hhhmmm what exactly does that say about you all?? i do not fight my dogs, but like almost every other person on this forum, my yard has had its accidents, and unfortunate as they were, they were also valuable learning lessons. whae i say proven, i meant that my dogs have shown me that they have the willingness and drive to do anything i ask of them. they will even STOP fighting on command, breaking up fights in my yard is easy because of this and i have only had one incident where another stud dog and rudy got into it that i had to take a dog to the vet. if i would have been home during the puppy fight i would have also stopped it before it escalated to that point as well, i was very sad about that particular incident, and it almost made me hang it up. i have since changed things around my yard so it can never happen again. i dont expect any of you to think anything other than what you already do, but watch for me in the next few years, with the IWPA, i finally just got a local club going so i dont have to travel to Vegas or CA to compete. im sorry this got so heated, but i know if the comments you all made to me were directed back at you you all would have reacted the same way. i just thought that since you all dont believe that my dogs were any good that maybe you would give me a chance to prove it to you. but thats ok, both pups are in training now, i started them at 8 months for weight pull, so i will see for myself. i appreciate everything you all have said, but i still do not believe what im doing is wrong nor do i think it is hurting the breed, i dont breed "game dogs" i breed pit bulls, and you will all have to face the fact that there are indeed 2 types of pit bull. i own one game bred dog i purchased to see if she could weight pull as well as mine. i wont say who i bought her from so he does not get ridiculed by all you hot heads lol :) but when she grows up we will see, i do not expect her to be as strong as mine, but i do expect her to have all the heart she needs, and she herself has decided she is my 2 year old daughters dog. all i ask from you all is to stop bashing what you dont really know and give me and my dogs the chance and advice we need to make a good name for ourselves. i in no way believe i know everything, in fact the reason i keep coming to this board is to learn. and i have learned alot especially about the inherent hostility directed at newbies from "game dog" breeders. again i apologize for anything that was insulting to anyone, but i do not apologize for my dogs, nor for my goals with them. it is time for this thread to close gracioulsy (sp?) and for us all to get back to our own learning.thank you for all the information, you learn something new every day. :)

[dhcrew]

PS: one of the best Pit Bulls I ever seen was kind of on the short side a hog dog that stayed on no matter what

my short dog, baby gurl has never had the opportunity to take on a hog, but with everything else, she does that as well, her hang time is outstanding, at 7 minutes in competition, but when she is at home, she will hold on and bounce for hours. she loves it.

[LadyRampage]

Ok, this has been a LOONNGG thread and after finally wading through it I thought I would respond.

I can see what you are trying to do with your breedings, although I don't agree with the purpose, and I can also see where you were going with farming out 2 of your dogs. I'm assuming that since you were given a hard time over what you are trying to accomplish you figured send them a dog, risk free other than a slightly high food/health care bill and let them decide for themselves..ok..

Now, I've see game lines crossed with the AKC/UKC lines in several other kennels and wondered what they were going for so you are not the only one doing this..

I've got a couple questions, I've seen your site which I couldn't get the answers from soo here they are:

#1. Are your dogs ADBA register, as well as the pups you are wanting to farm out?

#2. Are these dogs confirmationally sound, could they do well in the show ring?

You've mentioned weight pull alot, but not confirmation. The staff lines you have are alot of confirmation show dogs so I'm assuming with your goals you are looking to make an all around APBT that can be competitive in confirmation and weight pull or any other task you set before it, correct? How much confirmation showing have you done with these dogs, if any?

Now, I'm not bashing by any means, I'm trying to understand more on what you want these dogs to be in the future, and what the person who takes these farmed out dogs can expect...

[dhcrew]

Ok, this has been a LOONNGG thread and after finally wading through it I thought I would respond.

I can see what you are trying to do with your breedings, although I don't agree with the purpose, and I can also see where you were going with farming out 2 of your dogs. I'm assuming that since you were given a hard time over what you are trying to accomplish you figured send them a dog, risk free other than a slightly high food/health care bill and let them decide for themselves..ok..

Now, I've see game lines crossed with the AKC/UKC lines in several other kennels and wondered what they were going for so you are not the only one doing this..

I've got a couple questions, I've seen your site which I couldn't get the answers from soo here they are:

#1. Are your dogs ADBA register, as well as the pups you are wanting to farm out?

#2. Are these dogs confirmationally sound, could they do well in the show ring?

You've mentioned weight pull alot, but not confirmation. The staff lines you have are alot of confirmation show dogs so I'm assuming with your goals you are looking to make an all around APBT that can be competitive in confirmation and weight pull or any other task you set before it, correct? How much confirmation showing have you done with these dogs, if any?

Now, I'm not bashing by any means, I'm trying to understand more on what you want these dogs to be in the future, and what the person who takes these farmed out dogs can expect...

yes lady, that is exactly what im trying to accomplish, i want a dog with UKC conformation, and the ability to also be an accomplished weight puller, or even hog dog, both pups are APBR with UKC pending, i have a couple other kennels vouching for my lines already, since my stud is not ukc, he will be examined next month. the female has EXCELLENT CONFORMATION she actually has one of the best front views and top lines i have ever seen. very sound and well devoloped in the rear as well, her dam is dual reg AKC UKC, from gaff lines, and her sire is my rudy who is out of OFRN crossbreedings. the male also has excellent conformation, but he would excell as a hunter i think, his prey drive and determination know no bounds and he has a good mouth. he is kind of a bully right now, but loves girls, and puppies. wants to eat horses though just like his dam, his dam is my short dog baby gurl, and his sire is my friends stud dog TAZ who is direct out of Italy at 8 weeks. (he is of course 5 years old now. the male is only APBR registered. i am working for 3 gens of my own proven blood to apply for UKC and ADBA registeries, im actually working with both reg. on working out my blood. what i did was take virtually unknown blood that had been thinned to the point of non existance to see if i could build my own blood line of great athletes and show dogs, here is newports ped, as you can see, she is scatterbred, not line or in bred at all, which is exactly what i wanted to start with. im not sure how to put it in here so lets see if it works.

Pedigree for Los Alamitos' Cruzin Newport
American Staffordshire Terrier black tri color

<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style=""> <td rowspan="4" style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Sire
HOT SHOT NEVADA'S GONE DISNEY

</td> <td rowspan="2" style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Sire
HOT SHOTS NEXT EDITION

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Sire
CH GAFF'S LIMITED EDITION

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Dam
CIRKLE C'S SILVER LINING

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td rowspan="2" style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Dam
ROCKHARDS <st1:place>MAUI</st1:place> <st1:place>MAUI</st1:place>

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Sire
BRONTOSAUR <st1:place>EL TORO</st1:place> BIG JOHN

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Dam
LANCERS STORMY WATERS

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td rowspan="4" style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Dam
OPALS CRUZIN THE MILLENNIUM

</td> <td rowspan="2" style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Sire
OPALS CRUZIN FOR COLOR

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Sire
LUV'M BLU'S KOOL BLU ICE

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Dam
STEELWINGS XMAS ANGEL

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td rowspan="2" style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Dam
MAVERICK'S NV BACK 2 THE FUTURE

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Sire
GRCH SIERRA-GAFF MAXIMILLION

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 33%;" width="33%"> Dam
MAVERICK'S SADIE O'BUENA VISTA

</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

[dhcrew]

i guess it showed up twice...lol oops

[dhcrew]

i should also state that by conformation im talking about UKC conformation, not ADBA, i am working with the UKC the closest and the only reason im also working with the ADBA is to add the "game bred" dog in later. the only reason i even register is to help me keep track in my records, it is so easy to hang papers nowadays that i dont see much point, and since i dont sell too many dogs papers dont mean much to me. as long as i can see where the dog came from, and the kennel has good records that is all that matters, i base everything on the dogs performance.

[LadyRampage]

i should also state that by conformation im talking about UKC conformation, not ADBA, i am working with the UKC the closest and the only reason im also working with the ADBA is to add the "game bred" dog in later. the only reason i even register is to help me keep track in my records, it is so easy to hang papers nowadays that i dont see much point, and since i dont sell too many dogs papers dont mean much to me. as long as i can see where the dog came from, and the kennel has good records that is all that matters, i base everything on the dogs performance.
Here is my problem. You seem to want to do one thing but you are saying something else.. Base everything on the performance? Thats great but there is more than just performance with these dogs and those factors have to be just as important. You have to decide what you are going for and strive to that goal relentlessly. Are you going to weight pull, confirmation, performance, UKC, ADBA, or working dogs? Find a focus and stay with it. Can you understand what I'm getting at?

Paperwork doesn't make the dog, but it is an important tool when it comes to your breedings. If your dogs are UKC registered you can transfer the paperwork to ADBA quite easy and I would recommend doing so.

I would have considered taking one of your farmed out dogs, but will not simply because you haven't yet created "your dogs" but are only starting out and still don't have a clear "plan".. Hope this is making sense.. You need to have 2-3 generations before you can start to see how your breeding program is working, and not the first gen. Work on it a few years then we'll see..

[dhcrew]

Here is my problem. You seem to want to do one thing but you are saying something else.. Base everything on the performance? Thats great but there is more than just performance with these dogs and those factors have to be just as important. You have to decide what you are going for and strive to that goal relentlessly. Are you going to weight pull, confirmation, performance, UKC, ADBA, or working dogs? Find a focus and stay with it. Can you understand what I'm getting at?

Paperwork doesn't make the dog, but it is an important tool when it comes to your breedings. If your dogs are UKC registered you can transfer the paperwork to ADBA quite easy and I would recommend doing so.

I would have considered taking one of your farmed out dogs, but will not simply because you haven't yet created "your dogs" but are only starting out and still don't have a clear "plan".. Hope this is making sense.. You need to have 2-3 generations before you can start to see how your breeding program is working, and not the first gen. Work on it a few years then we'll see..
makes complete sense. and i will continue to work on it. i prefer the UKC standard over the ADBA standard, and will be showing UKC, but i will do the ADBA for sporting purposes. all of my dogs are registered, just not all with the same registeries, i have all of them APBR, one is dual ADBA APBR, still a pup, ONE is triple UKC AKC APBR, and the rest are all APBR. what i need to do is build what i have and get 3-4 gens, but now i have a totally newbie question, i live in a small town, kinda rural, and we are moving to a place even more rural where i will be able to keep more dogs on my yard and have to place less with friends and family for raising and training, but what im worried about and the reason i was thinking i would have to cull so hard is i do not want to sell my dogs if i can help it, i do sell a couple out of every litter, but i have never sold a dog to a total stranger and the ones i do sell, the money always goes right back into my dogs. how can i build a bloodline, and get the gens i need without having to sell alot of pups? or without having to PTS the ones that will not work for me, it just doesnt seem fair to do that, and i dont want to be considered a puppy peddler by any means, that is also why i thought maybe other kennels would be willing to foster a couple older pups with no risk, and so i could see what else they could do. i am curious to see if my dogs could be hog dogs but there is no call for it here. so now im stumped. what means will justify the end?

[LadyRampage]

Unfortunately there is no easy answer for you here.. If you want to start your own line of dogs based on your beliefs on what is needed you have to make the majority of what you breed and cull the rest HARD. Now how you cull is up to you, sell/place them in RESPONSIBLE homes, PTS, or you don't try to start your line. You have to keep only those up to your standards and then make breedings with those to produce BETTER dogs.

Now on farming out, this is really simple.... You find other kennels/people who have the same goals for their dogs as you and approach them to farm your dogs out to. Everyone has different ideas/goals on what these dogs should or shouldn't do and you just need to find those with similiar ideas to you.

Now you still mentioned that you prefer the UKC standard over the ADBA so why even look to the ADBA at all? Go with what you prefer and build from that. If your going to be in it for the long haul you have to be firm in what you want and continually build on that. Honestly I keep hearing that you would like to breed UKC dogs, nothing wrong with that, just don't try to incorporate both registeries if you obviously prefer one over the other, you will never be happy. Now UKC dogs can also do quite well in ADBA confirmation shows so don't count them out. Slim down that UKC dog and then take another look at the confirmation, they are out there and some do well in BOTH registeries..

BTW, I prefer the game dogs, but all my pure colbys are UKC registered as well..lol

[rocksteady]

Culling is an important aspect of preserving the breed ..it has to be done unless you plan on keeping every pup in the litter

Why? because when you are trying to create your own "bloodline" you generally need to have more than one litter ..you could go through years and years of litters just to find one pup that fits your goals (you should not use a dog that doesnt pass with flying colors) so say it takes 3 litters to find 3 outstanding dogs. Say in each litter there is 8 8x3= 24 24 pups that are basically experiments of no known quality. we'll be generous..say you end up finding 10 that are extrodianry and fit your goals perfectly. you are left with 14 14 older pups (you have to sit on these for awhile until they develope more..you simply cannot tell a pup is going to measure up or should be used fro breeding) 14 pups that arent good enough for you, how are they supposed to be good enough for someone else? these 14 pups are excess pups that needed not be because a person was trying to create their own dogs. Thats alot of dogs.. and thats were culling comes in sure, you may "give away one or two, sell a few in the beginning.. but the rejects are rejects Why take away homes that could go to dogs in shelters just to fullfill your need to create a bloodline??

and, when creating a bloodline. you start out with proven dogs. Dogs that have acheived top honors in whatever they were bred to do whether it was show, weight pulling... In that way you create a name for yourself. PEople will see what you have done with your dogs and see youre serious. then people will be more interested in your future pups..or farming them for you because there is potential. they will be more likely willing to take a risk on your dogs

creating a bloodline is hard hard work. I know top kennels that culled 10 whole litters just to get the traits and dogs they wanted.. years and years. You have to learn the ropes first then breed later

[rocksteady]

and..many kennels have deals where if you take one of their pups and campagin it to a CH or GR or Ace of Ace they reward you with another pup for free

you gain trust, recogniztion. After all, thats what you are really after.. recogntion?? your name on a line of dogs?

I say camgain the pups /dogs you buy of of proven kennels first then worry about creating a bloodline later with those dogs

[dhcrew]

thank you so much for the kind advice lady, i appreciate it, and i am working with a couple UKC kennels that already have a few of my pups. also the pups i have place out of my immediate circle, were all altered before they were placed, which is my preferred method of culling. however i will PTS if i have to. the UKC ADBA thing though there is a reason for, my ultimate goal is to have a dog, or line of dogs through both registries that will excell in bot conformation classes, and still be game enough to do ANYTHING else asked of them. without being able to farm out a couple dogs down the road to hunt, i will never know if my line has the game. you see what i mean? that is why im combining the 2 and working within both. i hope this makes sense....lol :)

[LadyRampage]

EXCELLENT post rocksteady.. and 100% correct. Its takes YEARS to develope a bloodline simply because it take YEARS for dogs to mature and reach their potential.

Great post, and dhcrew you should come away with some extremely good info from the post.

[dhcrew]

and..many kennels have deals where if you take one of their pups and campagin it to a CH or GR or Ace of Ace they reward you with another pup for free

you gain trust, recogniztion. After all, thats what you are really after.. recogntion?? your name on a line of dogs?

I say camgain the pups /dogs you buy of of proven kennels first then worry about creating a bloodline later with those dogs
thank you too rocksteady, and these are all things i am still working on, but i needed to see the immediate results of what my base would produce in order to stick with the combinations i prefer. i know i will have to cull hard, like i said i do not want to populate the world with the leftovers of my yard, so i will work on that as well, after all, i will eventually run out of room at my friends and families houses as well. :) i am trying to build my own bloodline, i know it will be hard and years before i see anything great, but im willing to do the work. i do truly love these dogs and i see so much potential for so many things.

[hawk]

I understand your goals in the UKC, ADBA. But what I don't understand is why you are going about this, in my eyes, the wrong way. Here is the reason I think it's the wrong way. I think everyone knows that you can breed two dogs from proven parents from good game lines and have a litter that is not all game. No one is producing 100% all game litters. And this is from proven lines. So know you are talking the AmStaff which has not been bred for gameness in over 70 years. I used this figure because they were first recognized by the AKC in 1935. Now after this 70 years all of a sudden in 15 years you are going to produce game ones on a consistant basis? The APBT has been bred for gameness for hundreds off years and no one produces 100% game dogs. It seems to me it would be much easier to find the game APBT's that have the confirmation you are looking for and breed that way instead of trying to breed gameness into the Amstaff.

[LadyRampage]

thank you so much for the kind advice lady, i appreciate it...

the UKC ADBA thing though there is a reason for, my ultimate goal is to have a dog, or line of dogs through both registries that will excell in bot conformation classes, and still be game enough to do ANYTHING else asked of them. without being able to farm out a couple dogs down the road to hunt, i will never know if my line has the game. you see what i mean? that is why im combining the 2 and working within both. i hope this makes sense....lol :)
No problem on the advice, glad I responded today instead of yesterday though..lol

If you set clear goals on what you expect you will have no problems crossing over to ADBA from UKC.. You set a standard of what you expect and are working toward and if that standard is what you are saying, whether you start with UKC dogs or AKC dogs it should get you to your goal. Instead of focusing on registeries focus on getting the BEST dogs that have as many of the traits that you are looking for then starting from there.

If you "will never know if my line has the game" without finding out for yourself then it isn't a priority so why is it so important to you? You need to develop your line of dogs around YOU, not what someone else thinks or tells you. I really think that you have an idea on what you want but its not completely thought out. Maybe sitting down with pen and paper and listing out what your long term goals are by physical and mental traits then starting from there, and realistically finding out what you want your dogs to BECOME.

Rocksteady is giving sound as advise as well. Its years and years of dedication to what YOU believe in.

[dhcrew]

I understand your goals in the UKC, ADBA. But what I don't understand is why you are going about this, in my eyes, the wrong way. Here is the reason I think it's the wrong way. I think everyone knows that you can breed two dogs from proven parents from good game lines and have a litter that is not all game. No one is producing 100% all game litters. And this is from proven lines. So know you are talking the AmStaff which has not been bred for gameness in over 70 years. I used this figure because they were first recognized by the AKC in 1935. Now after this 70 years all of a sudden in 15 years you are going to produce game ones on a consistant basis? The APBT has been bred for gameness for hundreds off years and no one produces 100% game dogs. It seems to me it would be much easier to find the game APBT's that have the confirmation you are looking for and breed that way instead of trying to breed gameness into the Amstaff.
that wouldnt work for me for 2 reasons, first i want to build my own bloodline, i dont see the challenge or worth (for me personally) in building on what others have already perfected. no offense here is intended, and the game bred dogs all have mostly ADBA conformation guidelines, where as i want more of a UKC looking dog. i do realize that it may never work, but either way i will have good dogs that are good at whatever they accomplish be it weight pull, hog dogging or whatever. the game bred dog i have chosen for this building up is from proven parents with proven parents, and in the UKC line i have there are also some proven hog dogs, which are also game bred. so i didnt just pick 2 dogs who werent the offspring of proven parents, i did my research for many months before deciding.

[dhcrew]

No problem on the advice, glad I responded today instead of yesterday though..lol

If you set clear goals on what you expect you will have no problems crossing over to ADBA from UKC.. You set a standard of what you expect and are working toward and if that standard is what you are saying, whether you start with UKC dogs or AKC dogs it should get you to your goal. Instead of focusing on registeries focus on getting the BEST dogs that have as many of the traits that you are looking for then starting from there.

If you "will never know if my line has the game" without finding out for yourself then it isn't a priority so why is it so important to you? You need to develop your line of dogs around YOU, not what someone else thinks or tells you. I really think that you have an idea on what you want but its not completely thought out. Maybe sitting down with pen and paper and listing out what your long term goals are by physical and mental traits then starting from there, and realistically finding out what you want your dogs to BECOME.

Rocksteady is giving sound as advise as well. Its years and years of dedication to what YOU believe in.

the reason i say i will never know if my dogs have game or not without farming out a few to hog doggers, is because i have been taught that the only way to prove gameness is to test a dog in the pit and see if it will continue to scratch. im not willing nor do i believe i am educated enough to go anywhere near that aspect, and i do know that a good hog dog MUST be game to hang on to a hog. however since there is no call for hog hunting where i live i would have to farm out a few to hog doggers in order to see if they have that aspect, and yes it is incredibly important to me whether or not my future line will have gameness otherwise my whole goal is pointless. i guess what i want is basically a "game" UKC and ADBA CHAMPION who is also a weight pull champion and champion hog dog as well....make sense? :)

[rocksteady]

you will never have game dogs if you cant test the right way for them

[LadyRampage]

is because i have been taught that the only way to prove gameness is to test a dog in the pit and see if it will continue to scratch. im not willing nor do i believe i am educated enough to go anywhere near that aspect, and i do know that a good hog dog MUST be game to hang on to a hog. however since there is no call for hog hunting where i live i would have to farm out a few to hog doggers in order to see if they have that aspect, and yes it is incredibly important to me whether or not my future line will have gameness otherwise my whole goal is pointless. i guess what i want is basically a "game" UKC and ADBA CHAMPION who is also a weight pull champion and champion hog dog as well....make sense? :)
What is game to one man is different to another.. If this is YOUR line of dogs, and what YOU want, you MUST be the one to determine those characteristiscs.

You plainly state you are not willing or are not educated enough to determine this on your own so how CAN it be an important factor in your breeding program. For YOUR line of dogs you can not rely on what OTHERS think, feel, or TELL you. Are you understanding what I'm trying to say?? You can have someone else tell you about the "gameness" of your dogs if you don't know what that looks like in the first place. I could take one of your dogs (years down the road) and tell you its the ultimate dog, then someone else could take that same dog and tell you its nothing.. You have to breed for traits that you know, you want, you desire, and NOT rely on info from outside sources because ultimately it DOES NOT matter what anyone but you think if you are truely breeding for yourself and not to sell dogs.

Since these will be your dogs, for your purposes why not breed for a UKC/ADBA CH, ACE, and working dog with characteristics of the original game dog although you would never know for sure and be happy with your line? Seems like you already have a goal but are trying to throw in a trait that you are not willing to see if your dogs have for yourself so I can't understand why you would think it so important.

I have a clear goal on my breeding program which some people don't like, or don't understand why I breed for this trait or that trait but it doesn't make a difference one way or anyother with me simply because these are MY dogs and if someone doesn't like them, they can keep walking..lol

[dhcrew]

in order to be able to try to add gameness into the UKC dog, i would have to know if what im producing is game in the classic sense, otherwise i have a beautiful dog that is a dual conformation CH, maybe even ACE weight puller, but can he hunt? i wont know until i find out, thats what im talking about. the BEST ALL AROUND SPORTING DOG that is also a SHOW CHAMPION.

[LadyRampage]

in order to be able to try to add gameness into the UKC dog, i would have to know if what im producing is game in the classic sense, otherwise i have a beautiful dog that is a dual conformation CH, maybe even ACE weight puller, but can he hunt? i wont know until i find out, thats what im talking about. the BEST ALL AROUND SPORTING DOG that is also a SHOW CHAMPION.
EXACTLY.. YOU won't know until YOU find out.. Really NO ONE can do that for you, its something you would have to find out for yourself.

[SFK]

But what if your Confirmation CH turns out to be a rank CURR? Are you dedicated enough to this breeding philosophy to cull that dog? This is something you need to consider.

[dhcrew]

But what if your Confirmation CH turns out to be a rank CURR? Are you dedicated enough to this breeding philosophy to cull that dog? This is something you need to consider.
yes if he turned out to be a cur, then in order for me to succeed at what i want to do then he would have to be, or at the very least sent to someone who needs a conformation only champion. he would definately not be breeding material for my personal program but maybe he would fit someone elses, i would look into it before i PTS

[GrChPitBitch]

Hmmmm... dosnt sound like very much fun to me.. ROGLMAO... Ill stick to the gorgeous dogs out of proven parents... Fck all that UKC BS... an amstaff is an amstaff...a pit is a pit... IMO you are just going to end up adding to the population of unwanted pet bulls... unless you cull hard... But if you do that, you wont end up with anything left..... How many dogs do you have anyway..? I was under the impression you only had two... Dont get me wrong.. I dont aprove of what you are doing... I think it is an idiotic experiment, at the expense of a wonderfull breed.... But I am also under the impression that no matter what anyone says to you, you are still going go through with it......

[hawk]

i have been taught that the only way to prove gameness is to test a dog in the pit and see if it will continue to scratch.
You have been taught correctly!!! That's the way they did it in the old days.

and i do know that a good hog dog MUST be game to hang on to a hog.
I have to disagree with that because the hog is fearful and usually trying to get away. And often hunters have more that one dog on a hog. The best you will probably know is if the dog is a rough cur. A rough cur will keep going as long as they are winning. And a hunter usually will not let a hog get a tusk into their dog because it will be over quickly most of the time.

im not willing nor do i believe i am educated enough to go anywhere near that aspect
I respect that but then how do you breed for gameness? You can't ask others to do this for you because this is YOUR breeding program these dogs have to meet YOUR standards. IF you, by your own admission, are not educated enough on the aspect of gameness how can you base a breeding program on something you don't know about or know how to test for??

and yes it is incredibly important to me whether or not my future line will have gameness otherwise my whole goal is pointless.
Think about this statement that you made right here when you are thinking about your breeding program.

I do wish you luck in your breeding program I just want to point out some issue with it. The main goal here is gameness now if you say you don't know much in that aspect and you can't and won't test properly for it then is this experiment pointless?? As I said I good luck with your program.

[dhcrew]

i was sorta hoping to learn more about the gameness aspect thats why im here. i am willing to learn, i just am not willing to subject my dogs to my own ignorance in the gameness area. i dont really know how to put it. i was asking for help i guess. but thats ok, you are all right, i will have to just get more books, though i have read just about all the good ones,

[Crash97]

i was sorta hoping to learn more about the gameness aspect thats why im here. i am willing to learn, i just am not willing to subject my dogs to my own ignorance in the gameness area. i dont really know how to put it. i was asking for help i guess. but thats ok, you are all right, i will have to just get more books, though i have read just about all the good ones,If you're looking to learn about how to properly game check your dogs, maybe the guy you said you got the gamedog from could help you learn the ropes in that area?

[LadyRampage]

i was sorta hoping to learn more about the gameness aspect thats why im here. i am willing to learn, i just am not willing to subject my dogs to my own ignorance in the gameness area. i dont really know how to put it. i was asking for help i guess. but thats ok, you are all right, i will have to just get more books, though i have read just about all the good ones,
Honestly you can't learn about gameness from a book, or the internet. You can get an idea about it but never really know unless you see it for yourself. Besides to really know you'd have to participate in an illegal active, and I for one, am not doing that.

Think long and hard about what you truely want to breed for then base your program on that. Breed to IMPROVE the breed, and for yourself.

Good luck

[hawk]

Honestly you can't learn about gameness from a book, or the internet. You can get an idea about it but never really know unless you see it for yourself.
Good point, it's like reading a book about boxing then trying to become a trainer. You will have good info but until you get in there with real world experience you will never know.

[dhcrew]

the game breeder im working with is really too far away from me to help i think but i will try to work it out with him. thank you guys for all your help. sorry i got touchy and this thread got so out of hand. no hard feelings. :) ;)

[GrChPitBitch]

noone can TEACH you how to look for gameness... You hafta experiance it.....

[JEEP]

If The Dog Is Not Paper, Then Its Not Good Enough For Me....

[GrChPitBitch]

What does that mean Jeep???



If The Dog Is Not Paper, Then Its Not Good Enough For Me....

[badnews_VA]

If The Dog Is Not Paper, Then Its Not Good Enough For Me....

So you're saying you would never have a dog without papers? Not trying to start anything just asking.

[dhcrew]

to me papers are only as important as the honesty of the breeder. if i find an excellent dog and he is not papered, it wont matter to me. i do register my dogs, but only really to help me keep track of them. and the reg i prefer to work with, keeps records on all the siblings and other family members, so later down the road i can see what distant cousins to my dogs are doing and producing. i work with all registeries, but for my records keeping i use APBR their program for keeping track is the best i have seen.

[christysdogs]

this all reminds me of an ad I seen yesterday
chow/shepard mix for 350 dollars....
when I seen that I had to laugh who the hell would buy a mixed breed dog for that much???
but anyways I think you should STOP trying to make your problem into every one elses
you breed your dogs the mom gave birth and now you cant find a home for those pups .
stop lying to your self and other people.I see it every day with the rescues I take in
its always ummmm we didnt know we couldnt find a home for them WE thought every one would want them... and the list goes on I visited your site and I can tell you straight up those are not pitbulls
they are mixes atleast if your trying to dump oyur dogs on some one else be honest about it.

[TabDogs]

I can honestly say this is the most long drawn out thread i have seen, besides the one on gameness, both are like beating a dead horse..Ignorant people are going to do what they want regardless, the sad fact of the matter is its at the expense of the breed. Why would someone who claims to love and respect this breed, try and ruin it, when so many dogmen/women have dedicated their life to preserving the APBT..now DH you know you are not culling a thing..but the lint in your pocket...What you are doing is no different than the morons out there breeding for color and these POS 100+ dogs they insist on calling APBT's. Before you rush and click the reply button and start trying to explain yourself, really think about why you have gotten people so fired up..why? because their are still ones of us who want to preserve this awesome breed and not water down and create some POS. Just because you have read a book doesnt make you qualified to breed nor be an expert. Just because your dog has balls doesnt mean it should be bred. LOL you said all you have to do is yell at your dogs and they stop fighting...LMAOOOOO :rolleyes:

[badnews_VA]

this all reminds me of an ad I seen yesterday
chow/shepard mix for 350 dollars....
when I seen that I had to laugh who the hell would buy a mixed breed dog for that much???
but anyways I think you should STOP trying to make your problem into every one elses
you breed your dogs the mom gave birth and now you cant find a home for those pups .
stop lying to your self and other people.I see it every day with the rescues I take in
its always ummmm we didnt know we couldnt find a home for them WE thought every one would want them... and the list goes on I visited your site and I can tell you straight up those are not pitbulls
they are mixes atleast if your trying to dump oyur dogs on some one else be honest about it.

just because you rescue an animal it doesn't mean you know everything or even close to it. you talk about educating people instead of putting them down, then you turn around and do the same thing. why is that?

[dhcrew]

i havent even looked at this thread for a while, christy you dont know anything.......im not even going to bother arguing with you because you are not worth my time nor anger.

tab, you dont have to agree with my purpose in my program, you dont have to like it either, and im not going to bother explaining myself to you either, maybe you should read some of the other threads i have posted in before you pass such judgement. i only offered these dogs out to prove them to you all after pages of bashing, i am keeping them here for my own program. and that has been my plan for the the whole time until all the bashing.....so you dont agree, so you dont approve....well thats ok.......im not going to grace this thread with my presence any longer. good luck to you all.

[SWAMPER]

Fuck It Lets Go Watch Southpark Lmfao!

[dora]

lol....swamper...

[IRISH]

dhcrew, what I don't believe you understand is it takes years to establish a good family of dogs working with known & proven bloodlines. Why should I or anyone else gamble on feeding unregistered AST mixes for 2 yrs just to find out what I know will come of it? I'd much rather keep feeding what I know is going to work for me. Because it has worked for my mentor, & his mentor so on and so forth. I mean no disrespect but you really don't understand anything about the background of these dogs or their true purpose.
well sfk you should think about the fact that a beginner breeder has just as muchchance of breeding a game dog as any one and at one time no dogs were registered the dog makes the pedigree not the other way around

[rocksteady]

damn Can we just give this thread a rest now???