akc /apbt

[Home of Cujo]

I have a pretty good idea but why is it that akc does not except our dogs as a breed?

[rocksteady]

because of the word PIT

[Crash97]

Due to their history as (gasp) a fighting dog.....

[rocksteady]

color, too. AKC only allows black nosed dogs ..

[GrChPitBitch]

IMO, the ADBA is one of the only clubs that promotes breeding dogs to look like what they looked like year ago....... IMO AKC ruined and mutated alot of breeds, such as the Bulldog, and the Bull Terrier..... They change standards all the time... etc. Bulldogs cant even give birth to their own pups naturally becuz their hips are too small... studs even have heart attacks during mating... and the Bull Terrier origionally had very little stop... but now they have inverted stops!! Dosnt make any sence to me..... But...

[miakoda]

color, too. AKC only allows black nosed dogs ..are you sure? dogs like the Pharoah Hound have red noses, & Viszlas, & the Weims have blue/gray. or were you joking?:confused:

[lambchop11078]

are you sure? dogs like the Pharoah Hound have red noses, & Viszlas, & the Weims have blue/gray. or were you joking?:confused:
I believe he was talking about AmStaffs.

[miakoda]

ohhhh. sorry, blonde moment. :D it happens.

[circlekpits]

are you sure? dogs like the Pharoah Hound have red noses, & Viszlas, & the Weims have blue/gray. or were you joking?:confused:
It is just they dont say they are red nose on thier paperwork. I know because i have 2 red nose amstaffs. Right now. But now a true AKC fan would not admit that any such thing exists, but you can't register AKC unless they are born into it.

[dhcrew]

none of that changes the fact that they all came from the same dogs used to continue what the apbt is today, AKC changed the name because they did not approve of the word pit, and a red nose is defaulted, so is a blue nose and a dudley nose. a dog will only title in AKC with a black nose.

and yes they have ruined alot of breeds, poodles, cockers, bulldogs just to name a few, but the amstaff hasnt lost everything, they still have all the qualities of the apbt, drive, determination,loyalty, intelligence, strength, willingness to please, and very few health problems in general. i have even seen quite a few hog dogs that are game as ever. it just depends on the breeder, and the lineage.

[GrChPitBitch]

Am Staff still isnt a Pit Bull...

[dusty]

If your having problems registering a dog you could look in to other opitons as well such as APBR and as well CKC recongizes the American Pitbulls . I know with ADBA they want at least 4 generations and there has to be at least one of those dogs tied back to ADBA. CKC has a wide variety of tournaments for dogs pending on the breeds.

[lambchop11078]

Am Staff still isnt a Pit Bull...







How so? The foundation stock for AmStaffs are APBTs.

[hawk]

How so? The foundation stock for AmStaffs are APBTs.How so? Because they have been bred separately and to different standards for over 70 years.

If you think they are the same try registering your pit with the AKC and give them your arguement about it coming from the same foundation stock and see how fast you get your papers.

[lambchop11078]

How so? Because they have been bred separately and to different standards for over 70 years.

If you think they are the same try registering your pit with the AKC and give them your arguement about it coming from the same foundation stock and see how fast you get your papers.
Yes they have been bred for different purposes now. If APBTs were used as the foundation dogs for "Staffordshire Terriers" then all AmStaffs are a subset of APBTs bred for conformance but not all APBTs are AmStaffs. That's the reason why the AKC won't register your APBT.

[hawk]

Yes they have been bred for different purposes now. If APBTs were used as the foundation dogs for "Staffordshire Terriers" then all AmStaffs are a subset of APBTs bred for conformance but not all APBTs are AmStaffs. That's the reason why the AKC won't register your APBT.
True, but by the same token many of the APBT's today can be traced backed to the dogs that were used in 1935 when the AKC opened their stud books. So if you can trace your APBT back to those same dogs the AKC still will not register them. And they would consider it, as do I, a separate breed even if you could trace it back to their original foundation stock.

[Big_Ant]

Can someone please explain to me what options I have in terms of getting "papers" on my dog? I know the AKC doesn't accept pits, and I know that the UKC doesn't allow registration unless both parents are registered with them. I was told by the breeder that the Sire was UKC Registered, but that the Dam was not. I haven't been able to get in touch with the guy as he was moving when I purchased her.

Are there any options for me?

Any clubs?

I've been around this terrific breed my entire life, my parents were breeders, and I'm not looking to get into big time breeding or trying to get money out of my dog(s). I just love the breed.

Thanks.

- Anthony

[lambchop11078]

True, but by the same token many of the APBT's today can be traced backed to the dogs that were used in 1935 when the AKC opened their stud books. So if you can trace your APBT back to those same dogs the AKC still will not register them. And they would consider it, as do I, a separate breed even if you could trace it back to their original foundation stock.
What I've noticed is there are 2 crowds in the AmStaff/APBT controversy.

The first crowd doesn't want anything to do with each other i.e. the AmStaff crowd doesn't want to accept the history of the AmStaff as a fighting bulldog while the APBT crowd doesn't want their dogs to be known as a pretty cur. The second crowd believes they're one in the same. I respect your stand where they're 2 different breeds but one can argue that no other breed was introduce into the AmStaff blood so in essence it's all APBT blood in them. That makes all AmStaffs conformance bred APBTs in my book.

[GrChPitBitch]

IMO, and Amstaff is a different breed NOW... but everyone to their own...
About registration, you could always register with the CKC.. but it is a Bullshit registry if ya ask me..... $10 for a piece of paper.... dosnt mean shit.....

[SLICK WILLIE]

The NKC will register APBT'S also and they were founded 1969 I think! and where based on the hunting abilities of rabbit hounds and other hunting dogs and now they register APBT'S and American bulldogs and it dont cost an arm and a leg...

[Home of Cujo]

If AKC would step off their soap box and except the apbt into their circle I think it would help with the bad press our dogs get and I also think they would be very impressed with the looks of the American Game dogs comformation.

[lambchop11078]

If AKC would step off their soap box and except the apbt into their circle I think it would help with the bad press our dogs get and I also think they would be very impressed with the looks of the American Game dogs comformation.
A very well conditioned game dog is an impressive sight but I highly doubt that's the image the AKC would like. I found the AKC prefer "cute" dogs with lots of fat. All the AmStaffs and Staffords I've seen at AKC shows tend to more bullish looking with slight muscle tone and a good percentage of fat. Personally, I think those dogs can be conditioned to lose another 3-5 lbs at the AKC shows. In my opinion, if you want to give APBTs better press then you need to become an ambassador for the breed. Compete the dog in obedience, agility, weight pulling, flyball, anything that gets lots of positive attention. Show the public these dogs aren't vicious menaces but rather an obedient friend they can trust. Just my 2 cents.

[dhcrew]

i have to agree here, there is (to me) alot of differences between the game dogs and the staffies, and not just in prettiness. though i disagree on them being 2 separate breeds, i am more along the lines of them being the same breed but bred for different occupations. and i in no way would want game dogs in the akc, it would simply be a matter of time before game dogs were ruined and made into pretty couch potatoes. the akc doesnt care for gameness which i disagree with but they like good looks, which i do as well, but for me regaurdless i will stay away from akc, and stick with ukc, adba, and apbr.


and also, no i do not think a well conditioned game dog would do well in an akc show, the soft people there would consider the dog starved, and file animal cruelty charges. Idiots;)

[GrChPitBitch]

AKC does show fat dogs... they wouldnt know a beutifull dog if it slapped them in the face....
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_114.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSzeb001)

[crunK]

color, too. AKC only allows black nosed dogs ..

Their site says black nosed is not prefered.

[lambchop11078]

Their site says black nosed is not prefered.
Are you sure about that?

http://www.akc.org/breeds/american_staffordshire_terrier/index.cfm

From the AKC standard...

"Nose definitely black."

[SWAMPER]

Cause The Akc Is Full Of Queers Who Dont Understand Our Breed.

Sup Tt

[dhcrew]

did any one notice the date on that standard? "approved june 10, 1936." but the standard doesnt fit the game dogs of today, unless they all looked like staffies back then??? hhhhmmmm

[dhcrew]

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American Staffordshire Terrier History http://www.akc.org/images/ads/appar_sale180x150.jpg (http://www.akc.org/store/products/index.cfm?category_cde=APPARL&external=yes)


To correctly give the origin and history of the American Staffordshire Terrier, it is necessary to comment briefly on two other dogs, namely the Bulldog and the terrier.

Until the early part of the 19th century; the Bulldog was bred with great care in England for the purpose of baiting bulls. The Bulldog of that day was vastly different from our present-day "sourmug." Pictures from as late as 1870 represent the Bulldog as agile and as standing straight on his legs-his front legs in particular. In some cases he was even possessed of a muzzle, and long rat tails were not uncommon. The Bulldog of that day, with the exception of the head, looked more like the present-day American Staffordshire Terrier than like the present-day Bulldog.

Some writers contend it was the white English Terrier, or the Black-and-Tan Terrier, that was used as a cross with the Bulldog to perfect the Staffordshire Terrier. It seems easier to believe that any game terrier, such as the Fox Terrier of the early 1800s, was used in this cross, since some of the foremost authorities on dogs of that time state that the Black-and-Tan and the white English Terrier were none too game, but these same authorities go on to stress the gameness of the Fox Terrier. It is reasonable to believe that breeders who were attempting to perfect a dog that would combine the spirit and agility of the terrier with the courage and tenacity of the Bulldog, would not use a terrier that was not game. In analyzing the three above-mentioned terriers at that time, we find that there was not a great deal of difference in body conformation, the greatest differences being in color, aggressiveness, and spirit.

In any event, it was the cross between the Bulldog and the terrier that resulted in the Staffordshire Terrier, which was originally called the Bull-and-Terrier Dog, Half and Half, and at times Pit Dog or Pit Builterrier. Later, it assumed the name in England of Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

These dogs began to find their way into America as early as 1870, where they became known as Pit Dog, Pit Bull Terrier, later American Bull Terrier, and still later as Yankee Terrier.

In 1936, they were accepted for registration in the AKC Stud Book as Staffordshire Terriers. The name of the breed was revised effective January 1, 1972 to American Staffordshire Terrier. Breeders in this country had developed a type which is heavier in weight than the Staffordshire Bull Terrier of England and the name change was to distinguish them as separate breeds.

The American Staffordshire Terrier's standard allows a variance in weight, but it should be in proportion to size. The dog's chief requisites should be strength unusual for his size, soundness, balance, a strong powerful head, a well-muscled body, and courage that is proverbial.

To clarify the confusion that may exist, even in the minds of dog fanciers, as to the difference between the American Staffordshire Terrier and the Bull Terrier, a comment on the latter may be helpful. The Bull Terrier was introduced by James Hinks of Birmingham, who had been experimenting for several years with the old bull-and-terrier dog, now known as Staffordshire. It is generally conceded that he used the Staffordshire, crossed with the white English Terrier, and some writers contend that a dash of Pointer and Dalmatian blood was also used to help perfect the all-white Bull Terrier.

In mentioning the gameness of the Staffordshire, it is not the intention to tag him as a fighting machine, or to praise this characteristic. These points are discussed because they are necessary in giving the correct origin and history of the breed. The good qualities of the dogs are many, and it would be difficult for anyone to overstress them.....


this from the history of the staffie...lmao

[dhcrew]

American Staffordshire Terrier Did You Know? http://www.akc.org/images/ads/appar_sale180x150.jpg (http://www.akc.org/store/products/index.cfm?category_cde=APPARL&external=yes)




An American Staffordshire Terrier named Stubby earned the rank of Sergeant and was the most decorated dog of World War I.

As the breed moved to America the names Pitdog and Pitbull Terrier stuck. However, American breeders wanted an animal heavier than the British breed, hence the name American Staffordshire Terrier. This is the breed commonly referred to a Pit Bull.

The roots of the American Staffordshire Terrier can be traced through early Mastiff warriors, to the original Bulldogs in England, which were used in the bloody sport of bull baiting.

The American Staffordshire Terrier was accepted in 1936 for registration in the American Kennel Club stud book as Staffordshire Terriers.

American Staffordshire Terriers are intelligent and excellent guardians.

It is widely accepted that this breed evolved in part from the old "Bulldogue" brought over from the Staffordshire region of England


this from the did you know section of the staffie pages.....

[lambchop11078]

did any one notice the date on that standard? "approved june 10, 1936." but the standard doesnt fit the game dogs of today, unless they all looked like staffies back then??? hhhhmmmm
You bring up an interesting point. I remember exchanging a few messages with a member of another pitbull website. It's said the standard is based off Colby's Primo. If the standard was approved in June 10th, 1936 obviously it was being written prior to that but Primo was whelped on May 29th, 1935. This would mean Primo was not fully matured and the standard is based off a dog that could not have been more than 1 year old.

[dhcrew]

i thought Stubby was a game bred pit bull??

[dhcrew]

You bring up an interesting point. I remember exchanging a few messages with a member of another pitbull website. It's said the standard is based off Colby's Primo. If the standard was approved in June 10th, 1936 obviously it was being written prior to that but Primo was whelped on May 29th, 1935. This would mean Primo was not fully matured and the standard is based off a dog that could not have been more than 1 year old.
that is an interesting point as well, and one i hadnt known. :0