New Bloodline: Any advice?

[Mudville_Monsta]

I'm going to be starting a new bloodline within a year or so but before I get it started I was wondering if any of you have any advice that can be helpful. I've started doing some research and asking other breeders about the process. All posts are welcome the more help the better. I have a couple of thoughts and a general plan but would like more info from any of you with an opinion and you more experienced breeders.

[Pit Blldg]

I am about 100 miles from you, so I am interested as to what you will be using for your foundation. I know of a really nice catchweight bulldog in the area that throws some very high drive pups. PM me if you got questions.

[hawk]

I'm going to be starting a new bloodline within a year or so
The test of the dog is the show - The test of the family is time - Joe Corvino

Good luck with your new breeding program. But only time time will tell if you have started a NEW bloodline.

[Mudville_Monsta]

I know, I have a few pups from a litter we had. This is the third gen. of pits the family has owned. Its the first gen. to be connected. I'm going to be line breeding and some outcrossing to reduce the possibilities of genetic defects. Although all lines carry them. Not really breeding for game or for show but would like to see future dogs from the line paticipating in both when the time comes. I agree only time will tell if and when what I have tried to do has worked. But I'm trying for the breed in my area and to learn more about the breed and how to get what I want when I breed. Thanks for your support.

[dhcrew]

whats the difference between what you (mudville) are doing and what im doing? i would like to produce dogs that will excel at both ......maybe i worded my goals wrong...i dont think so.

[Rockstar]

"Not really breeding for game or for show but would like to see future dogs from the line paticipating in both when the time comes."

I can't speak for show, but you can't possibly expect to produce gamedogs further down the line if you aren't breeding for it now.

[Bubba]

I can't speak for show, but you can't possibly expect to produce gamedogs further down the line if you aren't breeding for it now.you said it Rockstar!!!

[dhcrew]

im using a game dog from proven lines, that i purchased, a show type dog from some CH lines and my own blood to create what i see to be the ultimate dog.

[Mudville_Monsta]

well i started a breeding program because most of the dogs sold here are from byb's and they aren't even ones that know the slightest about the breed. u know the term "american", well here it's used for anything that has a black nose. red nose are that and blues are the hottest thing to have. most people think that bloodline is the name of DMX's rap label. the female i have has is game in the original sense. most of the dogs around here are because there was a lot of "sporty" owners. like i said i'm not breeding for game specific but not breeding away either. it's already there and i'm line breeding to get the blood more pure and established and looking for proven lines to cross to during the process also. now as far as show i had one guy buy a pup from this line and he used to show. he has a staffy that's 12 and has ch. when she was showing. he looked over the pup he bought and was impressed with her structure. i'm into game and show alike, love the breed, and felt that something needed to be done here.

[Bubba]

like i said i'm not breeding for game specific but not breeding away either. it's already there and i'm line breeding to get the blood more pure and establishedTheres only one way to find out if its there, and to preserve it. Just because you have a dog from game lines, don't mean it will be game or throw game dogs. Its just not that simple.
BB

[Mudville_Monsta]

she has showed it and so have the other dogs from her litter and the two after that. my cousin ownes the sire and dam to my female. she also ownes two of her brothers, one sister and has kept in contact with some of the people that have bought pups from her. i know nothing is for sure but if most of the dogs we see have shown game than it looks like the line breeding will only make it better. also all of the pups i have sold were sold on a breeding contract. so i will be able to see how they develope. only going to use what's good. i'm in this for the long run. i have grown up with pit's owned plenty,have been into "sports" and want to teach my daughter so she can keep the legacy going. my brother is also starting to learn and he's starting to lend a hand. this is what i hope will turn into a dynasty and something the family can keep going.

[APBT]

You don't actaully have a bloodline untill you have 9 gens filled out, JMO, and i hope your planning on keeping the whole litter and culling what you don't like, Good luck to you and dhcrew in starting your own stuff.

[dhcrew]

thank you....i believe i will need it along with all the supremely useful info available on this board.

[APBT]

I was wrong about the 9 gen thing,

[Blitzkrieg]

There are enough game lines and show lines alike. Now this is just my opinion, but both you and dhcrew are breeding to your own personal standards, which are not game or show, and neither of your goals are sincerely aimed at contributing to the breed as working dogs or show dogs.

[Mudville_Monsta]

not only is that your opinion but that's what i said in the first place. i started this to improve the breed in my area. most of the dogs here come from byb's who don't know about their history, bloodlines, and don't know if they are in-breeding, line-breeding, or out-crossing when they breed. this way i can give a little hope for the breed in my area,raise the stakes here and hopefully make people aware of the byb's and what they're doing to this breed. this breed was used for fighting in the old days and if there was never any progress they would not be winning in anything legal now. that means no conformation, weightpulling, hogg dogging or anything else. progress is the only way to get any where in life people,dogs, society, science, etc. without progress your screen name might be phalanx, or even worse neither of us would have a screen name. i know everyone will not agree with what i'm doing, but i'm not doing this for you i'm doing it for the breed and people in my area and those who agree that something needs to be done.

[SWAMPER]

Its Your Yard Bro,never Hurts To Try..............................

[Mudville_Monsta]

yeah, i figured the same. hopefully everything works out. not going to stop until it does.

[planecrazy]

The test of the dog is the show - The test of the family is time - Joe Corvino

Good luck with your new breeding program. But only time time will tell if you have started a NEW bloodline.
I like that.

[Bubba]

What seperates you from the BYBs??? You aren't trying to preserve the blood, you are trying to change the blood. Far as I'm concerned, that ain't a whole lot different than a BYB. And I hate to say it, but for once I agree with Blitz when he said but both you and dhcrew are breeding to your own personal standards, which are not game or show, and neither of your goals are sincerely aimed at contributing to the breed as working dogs or show dogs.Now I hope I never have to agree with him again LOL
BB

[Mudville_Monsta]

what makes me different from a byb is, i know about and i'm still trying to study the history of the breed, i know the history of my dogs, i take care of all my dogs in every aspect. all of my dogs are registered,up to date on all possible health matters,they are fed healthy and i practice responsible planned breeding. i take time to see if the buyer would be the best possible owner for the pup, if not i don't sell, i offer contracts, all of the pups are sold on a breeding contract. i'll take back all of the pups i've sold if the owner can't keep them any more and refund them. i'll also help them place other dogs they can't keep. let all of the buyers know as much info about the pups, the line, and breed as possible and keep an open door policy with them for the sake of the pup they bought from me and others they bye. i think that is more than any byb would do and i'm sure others would agree. also in case you didn't read i'm line breeding to preserve and purify the blood and using proven lines to outcross when needed. i want to breed quality pits that have all the traits that they're meant to have but can excell at either show or game. the only thing that's going to change is the name when i feel the line has been established. yes, i said i'm not breeding for game or show. but i also said that my dog is game and so are others from the three generations that the family has owned and bred. just because i'm not directly breeding for game doesn't mean i'm breeding away or trying to change the blood. this breed is bred for game and show, and lines do change. if what you and blitz were saying was true than, that's like saying show dogs can't be game and game dogs can't be shown and if you pull then there should be lines that only produce pull dogs etc. also what lines do you breed? do you show only or use for game only, are there show and game dogs the lines you have? do you breed for game or show. do you sell them? if you do then do you only sell them to game owners or show owners. because if there are show and game dogs from the lines you have then what seperates those breeders where you got your dogs from byb's or your line differnt from what i'm trying to do. if you sell to game and show owner than what makes you different from a byb? all i want to do is breed quality pits, if they are game great, if they have excellent confirmation and can be shown great, if they have both then i have done what i set out to do and that's the best of all.

[TryinTimes]

what makes me different from a byb is, i know about and i'm still trying to study the history of the breed, i know the history of my dogs, i take care of all my dogs in every aspect. all of my dogs are registered,up to date on all possible health matters,they are fed healthy and i practice responsible planned breeding.

Sounds like you are on the right track, but there are some keys that you are missing. Therefore you run the risk of having some poor specimens. I'm not into the registery thing so that has no reflection on the quality of anyones dogs to me. Genetics, Socialization, & exposure tell the story for me.
I respect that you try to provide as much info as you can to your area. Keep that up!!! I don't think it's wise to provide dogs to those in your area, especially since you stated that there is a General lack of knowledge in your area & most of the breeders near you are Back Yard Breeders & "Something needs to be done."

i take time to see if the buyer would be the best possible owner for the pup, if not i don't sell, i offer contracts, all of the pups are sold on a breeding contract. i'll take back all of the pups i've sold if the owner can't keep them any more and refund them. i'll also help them place other dogs they can't keep. let all of the buyers know as much info about the pups, the line, and breed as possible and keep an open door policy with them for the sake of the pup they bought from me and others they bye. i think that is more than any byb would do and i'm sure others would agree.

Yes! that is admirable but it has nothing to do with the quality of your dogs!!!

also in case you didn't read i'm line breeding to preserve and purify the blood Preserve & purify? In just three generations? and using proven lines to outcross when needed. Outcross in just three generations? WHOA!!! i want to breed quality pits that have all the traits that they're meant to have but can excell at either show or game.

In order to breed quality you have to start off with some type of quality. What guidlines do you subcribe to that allow you to think that breeding BULLDOGS are that easy. There is an old quote that states "Breed for the box & the conformation & pulldogs will come out." I think Ralph Greenwood said that (Trivia for the History fanatics)
To do anything different is to disrespect this breed &all the traits that they're meant to have.

the only thing that's going to change is the name when i feel the line has been established. yes, i said i'm not breeding for game or show. but i also said that my dog is game and so are others from the three generations that the family has owned and bred. just because i'm not directly breeding for game doesn't mean i'm breeding away or trying to change the blood.

yes it does.

this breed is bred for game and show, and lines do change. if what you and blitz were saying was true than, that's like saying show dogs can't be game and game dogs can't be shown and if you pull then there should be lines that only produce pull dogs etc.
"Breed for the box & the conformation & pulldogs will come out." That means every dog is not worth breeding. In my book A pull ACE that is a son of a G CH is no different than an untouched, cold, conformation, or cur son of a pit "ace" If someone pulls with one of my dogs & does good, that's good for the dog but he'll never get bred back into my program if he's never been game tested

also what lines do you breed? What lines do you breed? do you show only or use for game only, are there show and game dogs the lines you have? do you breed for game or show. do you sell them? if you do then do you only sell them to game owners or show owners.
because if there are show and game dogs from the lines you have then what seperates those breeders where you got your dogs from byb's or your line differnt from what i'm trying to do.
They First breed for the performance aspect of the breed, while paying attention to the unique physical, psychological, & physiological variables of their particular bloodlines/ stock.

if you sell to game and show owner than what makes you different from a byb? $$$ & a goal to better the breed & not just a neighborhood

all i want to do is breed quality pits, if they are game great, if they have excellent confirmation and can be shown great, if they have both then i have done what i set out to do and that's the best of all.
"Breed for the box & the conformation & pulldogs will come out."

Try doing a little bit more research and it will pay off. Contacting other breeders was a very good course of action. Taking your time & NOT BREEDING dogs for right now may be an even better one.

[Mudville_Monsta]

well first off i wasn't going to respond anymore to this thread but sense it was dug back up, and by a new poster i will to give you my opinion on your comments.

not everyone in my area is uneducated to the breed or byb's. if i can't sell a pup here i can't sell one anywhere. there are uneducated people to the breed and byb's everywhere.

what you said about the contracts not having anything to do with the quality of my dogs is true, but i never said it did. i was simply stating one of the many things that seperate me from a byb which was in the post before and brought out my response.

about your sarcastic response toward the methods of breeding i'm going to use, again i was just simply giving a general outlook of what i will be doing to develope this line. what's wrong with purifiying and preserving in just 3 gens. if you have a good bulldog that gives you what you need then the best thing to do is to purify and preserve. many of the great lines today were created this way. to jump the gun and say i am going to outcross in 3 gens. is purley your thought and requires no further comment.

to just come out and say i'm breeding for the box is ignorant, and would cause the type of attention that we as a fraternity do not need, need to encourage or need to condone. maybe you should have read some more other posts that i have written or asked some of the other members about me. then you might have a better grip of who i am. but then again you just joined and have missed a lot of threads and posts, too bad you might have taken a more educated or knowledgable shot at me.

They First breed for the performance aspect of the breed, while paying attention to the unique physical, psychological, & physiological variables of their particular bloodlines/ stock.

Who said i'm not going to do the same? I'm in this for the long run what about you?

$$$ & a goal to better the breed & not just a neighborhood

Wow.$$$. spoken like a byb. i have a goal and i'm doing what i can for the breed it's not just for a neighborhood it's for everybody,but it has to start here where i am. what do you do where you are. seems too me that your protecting or sticking up for others but haven't said anything about yourself. Why is that?

now to end this for now on a thread i thought was dead. one thing i want to say is i'm going to do this, i have a great outlook and plan and will consult with other knowledgable people and breeders. I continue to do research and find more knowledge. This is a very old subject that should have stayed dead but when there's new life there's new growth. maybe for others, not me (i don't mind) when there is a difference of opinion try to spread your infinate knowledge instead of taking a negative path. to help others will only increase the positivity we need to associate with this breed and also help to strengthen bonds between other owners and breeders. negativity between us in this community is more ignorant than all peta members put together.

In these tryintimes we don't need haters!

[It's In The Game]
Mudville_Monsta

[Mr.Mixon]

Mudville Monstsa, Hey hows it going. I haven't been on the board for a while and I see that you now have a Photo up of your All White Male. He looks good, I notice that he has a Red Nose, what lines his he? Me and my businesss partner just had a nice Colby Litter and we have an great All White Female puppy.

Mr. Mixon
http://www.cdbaby.com/polabear

[Mudville_Monsta]

how's it going Mr.Mixon. it has been a while. Yeah i posted a pic of my female she is predominantly white with a brown brindle patch down her left hind leg, and the same colored spot on her tail. i'm glad you PM'd me cause i rarely come to this site anymore. i'll give you a holla pretty soon.

[Mudville_Monsta]

how's it going Mr.Mixon. it has been a while. Yeah i posted a pic of my female she is predominantly white with a brown brindle patch down her left hind leg, and the same colored spot on her tail. i'm glad you PM'd me cause i rarely come to this site anymore. i'll give you a holla pretty soon.oh yeah and one more thing.........looking back at this thread has showed that what i said about being here for the long run shows. on top of that. i laugh at myself because i have learned so much since then i see the errors of my ways in some of what i said. with that said, to the newbies to this breed and to the ones who think they know it all. keep your nose to the grind and you will one day see the truth.

[Mr.Mixon]

Mudville Monsta, my family bought its first dog from the Colby Family 27-Years Ago and I have only ever own American Pit Bull Terriers and I am learning every single day. I will study the breed as long as I have breath in me. Someday maybe I will be knowlegeable. Until then I will respect the Dog Men of the old days and admire them.

[Mercepitdog]

Yikes...this thread makes dogmen cry

[semo]

I dont know how much you have learned Mudville_Monsta (member.php?u=1973), but at least in the begining you sounded like a promising *SARCASM* BYB , i sure hope you have seen teh light.

[Txloner]

Ole "MUDDY" has come along way , I would consider him to be an elite guy....Yours Truley Txloner

[pennsooner]

Yikes...this thread makes dogmen cry


Its not just dogmen it makes cry. Anyone who cares about this breed would cry from reading it.

[FIREMAN]

yea mudd has come a ways, your right loner, at first i couldnt beleive muddville wrote that. lol.

YIS

YO

[TEXAS PIT DOGS]

mudville i read the entire thread and i am going to be honest with you and i dont mean this in a mean way.over the many years i have seen alot of folks try to do what you are doing right now,they use the same breeding practices and such like you were describing.for the most part they fail at their task and the reason they fail is not because of their breeding practices.it is because of their lack of knowledge of genetics and they rushed to quickly into trying to make themselves the next john colby or flyod boudreaux.you are on the right path mud and i will give you that,but it is entirely to soon to try and establish a line right now.what you need to do is study genetics to see what goes into making a proper breeding because only 75% of a good breeding is the paper the rest relys on your trained eye for matching up dogs that would produce the right pups,and that only comes with time and patience.my advice to you at this time is wait,study,and be patient.this way you wont be just another kid who failed at trying to breed and instead you will be known for producing the best quailty dogs that you could have ever hoped for,and that my friend is what makes you a asset to the entire APBT world not just to your area.

[Mudville_Monsta]

first off what's up fellas, thanks for those compliments........and yeah that was me.LMAO!

Texas Pit Dogs, i see exactly what you mean in your post and not one word rubbed me in the wrong way. like i said before, i have seen the error of my thinking back then. Breeding is a controversial subject no matter what stock you start with. there are cold dogs and curs who have thrown better than offspring than hard working dogs. believe me when i say "today" my focus on these dogs is not in the breeding area. last but not least i'd like to say thanks for coming on here and replying in a respectable and knowledgable way, instead of a smart or sarcastic remark. in my opinion it's the way men of this breed should handle themselves.

[TEXAS PIT DOGS]

to be honest i hope what i typed sank in.now if you ever need advice you feel free to pm me and i will try and help you out so you at least start out on the right foot.

[Mudville_Monsta]

believe me brotha it have been away from that type of thinking for some time now. it doesn't really show due to the fact i rarely come to this site anymore. but thatnks for your extension. it's very generous and honorable.

MUDVILLE!

[PiTBuLL200416]

If you live in northern cali then I am close to where you are at and I would be able to help you with what ever I can. I too was trying to start my own line but I dont have the proper resources for that so I guess my dream of doing that is at a hold right now, but instead of me doing it myself I would love to help another.

[TEXAS PIT DOGS]

pitbull i am going to be sending you a pm shortly so keep your box open.i have some things i need to discuss with you.

[PiTBuLL200416]

No problem I will be waiting

[SLICK WILLIE]

Not being a jerk but why would you want to breed for anything other than gameness? There are many petbull breeders out there!I'm going to be starting a new bloodline within a year or so but before I get it started I was wondering if any of you have any advice that can be helpful. I've started doing some research and asking other breeders about the process. All posts are welcome the more help the better. I have a couple of thoughts and a general plan but would like more info from any of you with an opinion and you more experienced breeders.

[PiTBuLL200416]

Ohhhhhhhhhh My mistake I really didnt read carfully I misunderstood and didnt know he wasnt trying to raise Game Dogs, well I dont know if I could help with that I mean I aint hatin on what you are tyrin to do but I love game dogs.

[Mudville_Monsta]

OK let me get in your ears one good time. without getting into specifics and blurting out things that aren't to be mentioned so lightly , i've tried to explain it by simply stating " I HAVE SEEN THE ERRORS OF MY WAYS OF THINKING BACK THEN" i also stated that " MY FOCUS IS NOT ON THE BREEDING SIDE OF THINGS TODAY".

most of the peole i keep in contact with no longer frequwnt this board. the ones that do do it rarely like myself to my knowledge. those that do know what's going on can varify that those long forgotten but reborn posts are no longer among my ways of thinking these days. it's been a long road, but it' has been worth it.

[bigman02]

In all honesty, nothing is "quaranteed" to be SOMETHING no matter if it comes off BJ, Nubs, or Sqzr. As a matter of fact even if it's off of GR CH BlackJack, GR CH Awesome Beast, GR CH Yellow Man, GR CH MayDay, GR CH Barracuda, GR CH Lukane. Every litter has to be checked and culled. Every litter from every breeding, no matter how it's bred, CAN produce a freak. The reason people try to breed the Best to the Best is to increase the odds of a greater % of a litter to turn out to be freaks instead of none, 1, or 2 out of a no name litter. It's all a gamble...we just try to increase the odds in our favor. Simple take the old blood and make it better.


Anthony
anthonynunnery@yahoo.com

[youngster]

beleave me guys Mudvillle has come along ways from that thinking. he know probably more then some of the people clowin' him. that was in noway a disrespect to those that answered in a respectful manner. i mean people are talking shit and in there own thread asking "how to make my dog not runaway from me"!!!! come on people. it's okay to ask questons but don't clown on people if you your self don't have the slightest idea. i'm not sayin' i know shit becuase i'm still a newbie, but i'm not clowin' someone for a question they had a year ago. and the person (muddy) who had the queston says he doesn't think like that anymore. he probably one of the few and far between people on this board who still know what a game bred dog is(no disrespect to the board owners). so let's kill this old thread. it's almost been to years

[Mudville_Monsta]

A-YO! wassup Youngster thanks for those kind words my brotha. You know as well as I do how hard we been at this trying to learn. that's all we can do, try, try, and try until we get it, and even when we get, it's been revised so we got to learn again.lol. I honestly never thought this thread would be dug up.....and truthfully I was hoping it didn't.LMAO! But overall I'm glad it was, it's given me the time to show how much I have come along in certain ways. I know a few posts don't express almost if not more 2 years of constant fact finding missions.lol. But what it does, is give me a chance to correct what I did say and do wrong. At the same time, it allows those who are thinking of using these methods a first hand view of what not to do. Now with that said I hope this thread dies out just like you said.

Mudville.

[Marty]

Now with that said I hope this thread dies out just like you said.

Mudville.I will close it for ya ;)