Just curious, Does anyone know exactly why pitbull breed increased in size?

[devinben3]

I have heard many reasons to why the pitbull breed has dogs over 100 lbs, and i have my own opions myself, just wondering what everybody else thinks. Yes I do know the standard is small for gameness...But there are reasons why some people increased the size....Not just to make them bigger and badder for the wrong reasons, i've heard things such as weight pull weight class, farm animal guard dogs for wolves, etc...Let me know what you all think...all opinions welcomed

[CRG]

simple answer...... money, those big dogs and pups are over priced.peddlers saw a way to make more money.

[devinben3]

Yeah I agree, I once asked price on a cream colored rednose blue eyed male pup...not mentioning kennel, dad was over 120 lbs, and mom over 95 lbs...i was expecting somthing around 700 and it turns out they wanted nothing less thank $5000 for that pup...i was like whoa....I can buy the best damn game dog in the world for that

[pit stop]

Because "people" began breeding for size. Their have always been large pit bulls throughout history but they were the exception not the rule and for the most part not desired by fanciers of the breed.

Some families of dogs run larger than others. Over a period of time by breeding only the largest examples of the breed, some larger than standard bloodlines have been established.....and then of course there are the "pure-bred mixes" such as Eddington,Camelot,Dagger,Razors Edge, etc, etc......where other large breeds were actually introduced into otherwise pure pit bull lines, to create new XXL "pit bull" bloodlines.

[rocksteady]

right on Pit Stop!
. I research and researched to find some 80+ pound APBTs from back in the day and I just couldnt. 75 -80 seemed to be the highest ..but then, who knows what people kept on their farms

And some lines do tend to get bigger by inbreeding ... the line of McCoy dogs I have tend to get bigger the tighter they are bred.

[dora]

i look at the camelot site it looked more to imbreeding then mixes....i know a lot of peeps say imbreeding is good for dog and others have different view....i am one who has the diffent view....also i wasn't saying nothin bad tords the dogs i think they are good looking...i just have difference of oppion when it comes to imbreeding..

[Irish_Deciple]

I agree pit. well put.Because "people" began breeding for size. Their have always been large pit bulls throughout history but they were the exception not the rule and for the most part not desired by fanciers of the breed.

Some families of dogs run larger than others. Over a period of time by breeding only the largest examples of the breed, some larger than standard bloodlines have been established.....and then of course there are the "pure-bred mixes" such as Eddington,Camelot,Dagger,Razors Edge, etc, etc......where other large breeds were actually introduced into otherwise pure pit bull lines, to create new XXL "pit bull" bloodlines.

[rocksteady]

i look at the camelot site it looked more to imbreeding then mixes....i know a lot of peeps say imbreeding is good for dog and others have different view....i am one who has the diffent view....also i wasn't saying nothin bad tords the dogs i think they are good looking...i just have difference of oppion when it comes to imbreeding..
LOL..thiose dogs are mixes. You cannot base it on their peds because alot of their pedigrees are HUNG

Even with many game bred dogs..papers got hung, jsust becuase the ADBA or UKC says its so doesnt make it so

[hawk]

I have heard many reasons to why the pitbull breed has dogs over 100 lbs, and i have my own opions myself, just wondering what everybody else thinks. Yes I do know the standard is small for gameness...But there are reasons why some people increased the size....Not just to make them bigger and badder for the wrong reasons, i've heard things such as weight pull weight class, farm animal guard dogs for wolves, etc...Let me know what you all think...all opinions welcomed
The main reason is people want to walk around with a big tough looking animal. A lot of these are mixed bred dogs anyway. If you mix any type of large mastiff to a pit the dogs usually come out looking like big pits. In some cases you don't even need to use pits. Look at these dogs (this kennels is not trying to portray their dogs as pits) http://www.aspenrare.com/AMSTUD.html Look at Sher-Kahn and Re-Kahn no pits were used in there creation. Now you could take either one of those dogs and put an Eddington ped on it and make money. Take a look at the last two dogs on this page and they have no pit in them as well http://www.aspenrare.com/AMGirls.html This is what is creating these big dogs in my opinion.

[hawk]

i look at the camelot site it looked more to imbreeding then mixes....i know a lot of peeps say imbreeding is good for dog and others have different view....i am one who has the diffent view....also i wasn't saying nothin bad tords the dogs i think they are good looking...i just have difference of oppion when it comes to imbreeding..
Dora, inbreeding does not necessarily make a dog bigger. Rocksteady said that in the McCoy line they tend to run bigger. If inbreeding made dogs bigger a lot of the Redboy dogs would be huge. Breeders like Ironline would have huge dogs as well because they use inbreeding a lot in their program. Inbreeding has a purpose in a good breeding program if you know what you are breeding for and you know what traits you want to set. Inbreeding is used to set traits not make dogs bigger.

FYI- I don't know if you made a typo but the term is inbreeding not imbreeding.

[rocksteady]

Ironline has some pretty big bulldogs on his yard, too. Bob cat II is like 75 pounds and theres a few others pushing that lol..

What happends with inbreeding is that you get exaggerated features in dogs. There was one litter with dogs that weighed in at 90 pounds while there were also dogs that weighed in at 45 pounds. (doing more than one breeding during that week will also make runts)
Now we've taken a few of those bigger dogs and they inturn had nothing but small dogs (whew)



This is a tight bred dog here .. 75 -80 pounds thats what I ment by bigger
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=104342

his parents werent nearly that big

Inbreeding when done right as stated has excellent results. you just have to be willing to put the time and effort into the pups and as adults and only use the best and weed out the bad from the good.

[hawk]

[QUOTE=rocksteady]Ironline has some pretty big bulldogs on his yard, too. Bob cat II is like 75 pounds and theres a few others pushing that lol..


You post on his board under a name that begins with a C, right? Bobcat II conditions in the Mid 50's according to IM. He said he keeps them fat for the winter and prying eyes. He did say he had some bigger than that, but you know how tight IM breeds. I would think that he would start having 100lbs dogs by now. I guess I was saying that inbreeding will not produce the 100 plus pound dogs. And if you read Dora's post I think she thinks that is what inbreeding is for. If you want to look at that thread on IM's board look under Maynerd.

[rocksteady]

maybe that was a different dog I saw /heard about ..he certainly looked alot bigger than Jimmy and Jimmy was a fat 50 .. my dog was a fat 50 and they were bigger than her .. .

Yes..thats what I was trying to get at ,too .When people say big dogs I think 60 to 75 pounds lol. sorry for the misconfusion.. I didnt mean 100+ monsters ..What happen (Rozmus' 8 Ball McCoy was 95 pounds, his parents werent that big.. he was bred to another tight Rozmus dog, Raven,whio was around the 45 -50 mark) and it was a tight breeding with some dogs that ended up being 100 pounds..MMC's Little 8 Ball McCoy, which I owned) That was tight litter with all sorts of problems and exagerations..both good and bad (allthough one of those females ended up being put to Jake and the pups are awsome ,the female was in the 40's)

And it happend with Rozmus' Black Magic when put to another tightly bred Rozmus dog.. my dog Clyde and I know his littermate Hard Drive is a big dog in the 70's... and the dam of that litter was not a big dog.
Another son of 8 Ball (who was off an outcross) was a big dog (not sure of actual weight) they bred him to another McCoy dog telling everyone the pups would be big and the pups ended up in the low 40;s ..

[Mudville_Monsta]

correct me if I'm wrong or if I missed something But,inbreeding causes growth in future generations.

[dhcrew]

LOL..thiose dogs are mixes. You cannot base it on their peds because alot of their pedigrees are HUNG

Even with many game bred dogs..papers got hung, jsust becuase the ADBA or UKC says its so doesnt make it so
ok, then i have a question based on these couple posts. if papers can so easily be hung, then WHY are they so important to some people?? for me it is enough to know how my dogs are bred, i register them to make my own record keeping easier...... and HOW did they cros breed, and with what?

[rocksteady]

correct me if I'm wrong or if I missed something But,inbreeding causes growth in future generations.
I know I had it wrong now lol.. it was explained to me different before but I had to go call an expert lol

Line breeding can cause larger dogs ..mostly because each dog even in one litter gets different genes and Line breeding is not the same as inbreeding.. allthough my dogs look inbred they are actually line bred.. dogs from the same litter do not often produce the same ..because they get different genes

[Wayne]

The more you line breed in one blood line the smaller the dogs will get as there genetics break down.Imbreeding though amplifys genes some good some bad.Thats the reason for culling.

[Mudville_Monsta]

What do you think is more effective culling or selling them as pet quality and on a spay or neuter contract. I really don't think I can Cull.

[Wayne]

I think that selling them with a spay neuter contract is a type of culling.They can`t reproduce.

[Rockstar]

Yup; to "cull" is simply to remove one from the breeding pool.

[Rockstar]

And Wayne is also mostly correct in regards to inbred dogs eventually getting smaller. It will probably be 3-4 generations before a noticeable size decrease; but while the dogs will continue to get smaller throughout generations of inbreeding, eventually they will begin to increase in size once again until finally reaching similar growth levels of the first generation of dogs. We're talking several generations of inbreeding here.

[TabDogs]

I have heard many reasons to why the pitbull breed has dogs over 100 lbs, and i have my own opions myself, just wondering what everybody else thinks. Yes I do know the standard is small for gameness...But there are reasons why some people increased the size....Not just to make them bigger and badder for the wrong reasons, i've heard things such as weight pull weight class, farm animal guard dogs for wolves, etc...Let me know what you all think...all opinions welcomed
This is probley one of the most touch subjects for me...
IMO these big so called APBTs that are 90+lbs are the poorest examples of the breed, im sure this was already said.To me these dogs arent APBT's. Previous to these big monsters coming along u never heard alot about hip dysplasia or elbow displasia in the breed. To me breeding these big dogs is ruining the breed. 99% of these 90+lb dogs could never do the job the APBT was bred for, never. These huge dogs have no wind , no stamina, and lack gamness by far. Most of these dogs turn out to be maneaters or just big lazy coach potatoes. I mean could u imagine someone attempting to condidtion one on a mill or doing road work with one..lol they would die the first day. To me an APBT is an athlete in the truest form, strong, determined, game, and stable. Their were some great, great big dogs that made thier mark take GR CH Mayday for example, he was 75lbs chain weight. BUt he wasnt no 90lbs. This topic of these "big" 90+lb dogs is probley the most aggravating to me..cause no one will ever get it..these dogs are NOT APBT's. IT is not "cool" to walk down your block with this 100lb pound beast you call an APBT,who are you impressing? if you are wanting a big dog go buy your self a mastiff or a presa. Hell you could buy three Mastiffs for the price of one of those Dagger or Razor's Edge pups. Dont ruin the breed that some of us spend our whole life trying to preserve.

[GrCh_Jeff]

i agree with tab.there not true apbt's...they are monsters.over priced and mutated for sheer profit.

[D.R KING]

Well, the way I put it is this. People know the pitbull is a tough breed of dog, because they don't want to walk around with an 45 pound pitbull. They rather have an 90 pound pitbull look-alike. Most people believe the bigger the better, BULLSHIT!!! And then these f****** have the nerve to get mad @ you when you try to tell them that their dogs are not pure breeds. By comparing them to a pure bred pitbull. They say "Like humans, dogs can get bigger in size, its like this man, i'm short but my father is tall, sometimes big things come from little things." So you mean to tell me a 45 pound parents can make monsters? Yeah right

Hell if thats the case, give these dogs their own name. "American Pitsiff Terriers". Since most of these dogs are mastiff mixes anyway. It just makes me upset that 90% of people think the pitbull should be a useless, 100 pound, 24 iched head, wide and low dog. They have no clue

[Scotsman]

Actually there is a kennel in New England that breeds big dogs 100-120+ lbs. They did cross some mastiff into there line to get these big dogs and hung papers on the offspring. Most big "pitts" (over 100 lbs) kind of have a mastiff look to them, their head looks to small for their body.

[D.R KING]

i do believe alot of the hype the 100 plus size dog is actually b.s. I think alot of these thick and monster sise looking dogs are done with the computer.most of the dogs supposedly over 100 pounds 8 times out of 10 is a lie.Some photos are streched out sometimes, but most of the time its true, people really have these dogs.

[GrCh_Jeff]

these people eho do have these dogs are idiots...

[jawbones]

I can tell alot of you guys just believe the hype you've heard from someone else. 20 + years ago in Texas where I first began dealing with bulldogs, I had dogs from Gary Hammonds line and Eagleton line. There were alot of bigger dogs then that we called catch dogs, or catch weight. I know these men personally though JG Eagleton is gone now, I know their bloodlines were pure and I know they were game. Making broad statements that ALL of these dogs are mixed is just ignorant and shows how long some have been a part of this breed. Although there are some freakishly big dogs out there that may be mixed, who really knows? But I can teel you that just because some are 75 pounds doesn't make them mixed. The biggest dog I have fat is only 58 pounds.

[jawbones]

I am not taking up for them because I own any huge dogs, because I don't, although I do have both Staff and game on my place, and I've been guilty of being caught up in the junk, (shame on me.) I am however today, thank goodness, replacing some of my junk with better dogs. I am just saying ALL of them aren't mixed. I've seen some game and I've seen more quit. It is just frustrating to see the junk being bred out there right now, it's worse than ever. I hope I don't get into trouble for posting this link, but here it is. This is the kind of freaks that can aggrivate true game dog breeders.
http://www.muglestonspitbullfarm.com/males.html
And it gets worse.
http://www.woodspits.com/

[auggiedog]

goodgooglymoogly, where did they get the shoulders?

[pitbull-kid]

well.... first of all it's for money, the bigger, the freakier.... ie the more wrong they are from the standard of both UKC and AkC, especially ADBA means the more money,

from my research and reading, i think it's breed to certain type of mastiff

[bigfrigginpit]

Just out of couriosity. I have a big Eddington dog. I have had smaller game lines in the past. When I got my dog I had just lost my ofrn, He took off after a bear one day didn't make back. When I got buster I wanted to get into weight pulling, after talking to alot of weight pullers they reccomended the Eddington line. I have heard people mention the Mastiff cross, my question is aren't Mastiff's known to have congential hip problems. If so why would they be crossed in weight pulling stock. I am not trying to start any trouble with this question, but it is something I have wondered about. I admit I did not know much about the bloodline when I got into it, but my intentions were weight pulling, and not trying to have the baddest looking dog. Is it possible that something else might have been brought into the line.

[Wayne]

Those pictures are almost sad.How could someone just keep breeding in genetic flaws like that.The dogs look so uncomfortable.That shape can`t be good on there hips and sholders eather.

[misterdogman]

I have heard many reasons to why the pitbull breed has dogs over 100 lbs, and i have my own opions myself, just wondering what everybody else thinks. Yes I do know the standard is small for gameness...But there are reasons why some people increased the size....Not just to make them bigger and badder for the wrong reasons, i've heard things such as weight pull weight class, farm animal guard dogs for wolves, etc...Let me know what you all think...all opinions welcomedOK, I have heard a lot of good therories here about where the size came from today, I even just recently read in a dog breed site Pitbulls range from 22-120lbs, I really laughed, and true a lot of it is from Mastiff crosses and other impure crosses especially as far as Blues and other MAMMOTHS of our generation our concerned, but is everyone forgetting the Pit Dog originally has its roots from the Alaunt from England that was used for Bullbaiting and as a Catchdog, they regularly exceeded 85lbs according to history and were bred down to the popular pit size to accomodate men who wanted to feed more dogs not feed one dog more, I have to disagree that some dogs today as big and bigger than 60-65 are totally pure, thats why I dont ever get big dogs no matter what the Ped says, but the "Law of Large Numbers" which is always right states some big pits are just that.. big pits.. but I am taking no chances to find that out based on performance after I buy the huge beast, I will leave that to someone in test mode not preservaton mode.

[SLICK WILLIE]

It dont last as long! Lazy people want it over quicker and that is what happens with dogs of that size. Yea! they may go for a bit but not like the basic 40 to 48 lb gamedog. Time is such a bullshit reason to breed a bigger dog. I have a friend that wants bigger dogs so it dont take as long.

[Camo]

I have heard many reasons to why the pitbull breed has dogs over 100 lbs, and i have my own opions myself, just wondering what everybody else thinks. Yes I do know the standard is small for gameness...But there are reasons why some people increased the size....Not just to make them bigger and badder for the wrong reasons, i've heard things such as weight pull weight class, farm animal guard dogs for wolves, etc...Let me know what you all think...all opinions welcomed
Yes! I was looking at some pedigrees just this morning and was amazed at a certain pedigree that after 4 generations was nothing but AKC Am Staffs. The Eddington bloodline is crossed with a bunch of currs to get a bigger dog. I bought a dog that was suppose to be this awesome gamebred dog and when I got the ped back the whole bottom half was Eddington, I blew a gasket. All this for a bigger dog. Go buy a Presa, or Mastiff, leave the bloodline alone ...good grief. Man I'm cranky today.:mad:

[Camo]

It dont last as long! Lazy people want it over quicker and that is what happens with dogs of that size. Yea! they may go for a bit but not like the basic 40 to 48 lb gamedog. Time is such a bullshit reason to breed a bigger dog. I have a friend that wants bigger dogs so it dont take as long.
You know what's funny! The look on someones face that ownes a 85 pound dog and talks smack until he sees his big boy get curred by a little boy(45 pounder). Not saying I ever seen that,:o just saying I bet it would be funny.

No Dogs Bred or Sold For Illegal Purposes!!!*NO DOGS TO BE USED IN VIOLATION OF THE ANIMAL WELFARE ACT OF 1976*
:D

[ProudAPBTmomma]

My neighbor had a dog (currently deceased) that 'he said' weighed 160 lbs. Now the dog did look like it and he used to tie it up to his car and see how far down the street the dog would pull it. Either this guy was trying to have the biggest baddest dog on the block or he was nearly out of his mind. The reason I believe he did this to his dog is because they also had a meth lab and felt this big bad dog wouldn't let anyone mess with his master. Personally I think it's cruelty making dogs bigger than their standard. If they were backyard bred and not high dollar dogs, they most likely will be a touch bigger than normal, as well with most all breeds. Forcing a dog to be bigger than normal can and will cause many problems in the dog's later years such and hip and joint problems (which are common for this breed).

[SLICK WILLIE]

CAMO! that is right! Its like the big kid in school that picks on the wrong little guy one day and gets his ass handed to him. They can keep the big bone headed fools for show. Its the people that want a picture dog to make'm look cooool! I love my crappy looking gamedogs! Theys tha shiznit!

You know what's funny! The look on someones face that ownes a 85 pound dog and talks smack until he sees his big boy get curred by a little boy(45 pounder). Not saying I ever seen that,:o just saying I bet it would be funny.



No Dogs Bred or Sold For Illegal Purposes!!!*NO DOGS TO BE USED IN VIOLATION OF THE ANIMAL WELFARE ACT OF 1976*


:D

[twiztidpitz]

I think that the people that have these huge dogs just did the whole selection breedings. Taking the biggest male pits they could find and bred them to the biggest females. And as time passed the dogs just kept getting bigger and bigger. Now there is a thing as to big, anything over 90lbs. is just to big for me.

[twiztidpitz]

OH, and they over feed them way to much food, which adds lots of fat to their weight.

[lonesharkpits]

i know jawbones already covered it but everyone really should check out the rediculous looking dogs at http://www.woodspits.com/, and i do mean rediculous. someone slap these people for me if you meat them for purposely breeding such useless animals who i bet couldn't hold their on with a real pit in way. just disgusting

[lonesharkpits]

oh i almost forgot - this is a good laugh, my wife met a guy today who has a blue pit who he says is linebred jeep top and bottom!!!!!!!! i had a good laugh to that one

[twiztidpitz]

Do those people even know that those dogs look absolutly ridiculous! That is just to wide and short for their weight, which causes lots of problems like hip displasia, breathing problems, ect.

[twiztidpitz]

Take a look at these dogs.http://muglestonspitbullfarm.com/index.html Like the males named Lobo and Goliath, this is what I call to big and ugly.

[luv_a_bull_girl]

okay, okay i know i'm young but i'm going to put my say on this as well... from what i can see is true dogmen and pit fighters had small dogs because they are easier to control.... i mean, try breaking up two 90lb dogs that are fighting each other... anyways these dogs retained a weight that many feel is the american pit bull terriers true standard... truthfully i think many of you reading this would probably feel that my brindle male diegoh is a bit to big (65lbs and by no means overweight, he looks like a greyhound).... but as time went on, many dogfighters who knew nothing of the true sport (read into this: they were malicious, cold hearted people who cared nothing for the dogs they fought) started to breed bigger dogs by adding mastiffs and other large dogs to the mix... truth is they probably started out with street breeds and created their own kennel eventually... what's not seen is that thru the breeding process the mastiff/other breed is eventually bred out of the line while the pit bull stays with merely the size and nothing more of the other breed.... this is why many pits range from as small as 30lbs to as big as 130lbs and come in just about every color combination known to the dog world... this is also why the AKC does not have the apbt registered because they feel its still a "mixed breed" for its lack of a consistant breed standard.... and i know none who read this feel my pit steele is a true pit (he weighs 82lbs) even those his mom is full machine gun kelly (63lbs) and his dad (diegoh) is gator/boudreaux/blue bordeaux... what ever the case shit happens... i'm sorry if many feel your breed is being tampered with but hey what else can can be said?

[luv_a_bull_girl]

i know jawbones already covered it but everyone really should check out the rediculous looking dogs at http://www.woodspits.com/, and i do mean rediculous. someone slap these people for me if you meat them for purposely breeding such useless animals who i bet couldn't hold their on with a real pit in way. just disgusting
uh yeah i advocate all pits but these dogs really are hideous... it looks like some one took a giant hand and squished them down... they stick out too much and are too stocky :: makes sick face ::

[miakoda]

simple

bigger "pit"=bigger image=bigger ego (for owner)=bigger money to be made in breeding/selling because bigger "pit"=bigger image=bigger ego (for owner)....& the cycle goes on & on.

I'm starting to think that guys with massive "pits" are trying to make up for their own small "manhood"

[Saiyagin]

In my opinion selective breeding and some evolution is what makes these pit bulls larger. Dont forget that there are alot of large game bred pit bulls now days then before some reaching up to 80lbs OTC. For example Mayday , Big John, Yellow,Firecracker,Glock, and Wrangler etc.. I also had a TabxWacc male that was 65 otc and a TabxBig Casey male 76lbs otc. I sold both of them as they were too large for my taste but they were bad game bull dogs even to this day I regret selling them.

[jawbones]

simple

bigger "pit"=bigger image=bigger ego (for owner)=bigger money to be made in breeding/selling because bigger "pit"=bigger image=bigger ego (for owner)....& the cycle goes on & on.

I'm starting to think that guys with massive "pits" are trying to make up for their own small "manhood"
Wow Mia, that is awesome!!! I feel so much better about myself now. :) The new Bolio Male I just bought for a Stud to breed to my Hammonds gyp is only 26 pounds. LMAO... Hmmmm! that must mean??? LOL.. ROFL. j/k

[miakoda]

LOL jawbones!!!!!!!! :p

[Dpres1]

simple
bigger "pit"=bigger image=bigger ego (for owner)=bigger money to be made in breeding/selling because bigger "pit"=bigger image=bigger ego (for owner)....& the cycle goes on & on.
I'm starting to think that guys with massive "pits" are trying to make up for their own small "manhood"

LMAO!! That's why I walk Tank (DDB) when it's cold out!!
:D

[Marty]

I'm starting to think that guys with massive "pits" are trying to make up for their own small "manhood"LMAO, no comment, I plead the 5th ;)

[lilpitgirl]

In my opinion selective breeding and some evolution is what makes these pit bulls larger. Dont forget that there are alot of large game bred pit bulls now days then before some reaching up to 80lbs OTC. For example Mayday , Big John, Yellow,Firecracker,Glock, and Wrangler etc.. I also had a TabxWacc male that was 65 otc and a TabxBig Casey male 76lbs otc. I sold both of them as they were too large for my taste but they were bad game bull dogs even to this day I regret selling them.
I now there are big game bred dogs but still we are talking in the upper 70 at the very most I mean you can look at colbys pitcher who was 72(AND CAN BE FOUND IN THE MAJORITY OF SOME MAJOR DOGS) pounds but was brought in at 56 and I know that I can speak from experience that wrangler was the biggest dog out of that litter I have 2 of his bellymate sisters and neither one is over 50 nore are his brothers so I think that they do pop up once in awhile but were talking 70 AT THE VERY TOP END OF THE SCALE not 100 pounds unless maybe the dog is so hog fat it cant even stand up

[StraightGame]

I think anything over 65lbs. is to big. I agree with rwbkennels .

[Defend2DaEnd]

WOW those woodstock dogs... Can they even walk right? did you see the one on the stick how far it's legs stick out! I know this post is old but JEEZ US! Did you see the harness they were using so that dog could pull that car???? Those dogs look like tables!

[wesley9]

This is probley one of the most touch subjects for me...
IMO these big so called APBTs that are 90+lbs are the poorest examples of the breed, im sure this was already said.To me these dogs arent APBT's. Previous to these big monsters coming along u never heard alot about hip dysplasia or elbow displasia in the breed. To me breeding these big dogs is ruining the breed. 99% of these 90+lb dogs could never do the job the APBT was bred for, never. These huge dogs have no wind , no stamina, and lack gamness by far. Most of these dogs turn out to be maneaters or just big lazy coach potatoes. I mean could u imagine someone attempting to condidtion one on a mill or doing road work with one..lol they would die the first day. To me an APBT is an athlete in the truest form, strong, determined, game, and stable. Their were some great, great big dogs that made thier mark take GR CH Mayday for example, he was 75lbs chain weight. BUt he wasnt no 90lbs. This topic of these "big" 90+lb dogs is probley the most aggravating to me..cause no one will ever get it..these dogs are NOT APBT's. IT is not "cool" to walk down your block with this 100lb pound beast you call an APBT,who are you impressing? if you are wanting a big dog go buy your self a mastiff or a presa. Hell you could buy three Mastiffs for the price of one of those Dagger or Razor's Edge pups. Dont ruin the breed that some of us spend our whole life trying to preserve.

no need to commit , tabdogs already nailed it imo

[scooter]

Isnt there a big difference between inbreeding and tightbreeding? At least thats what I thought.

[ABK]

Isnt there a big difference between inbreeding and tightbreeding? At least thats what I thought.
It depends on what kind of "tightbreeding" you're talking about. There are basically 3 types of breeding - inbreeding, linebreeding & outcrossing.

Inbreeding is mother x son, father x daughter or brother x sister.

Linebreeding is uncle x niece, grandfather x granddaughter, etc.

Outcrossing is breeding two dogs who have no common ancestors w/in 4 generations.

[Bakercloud]

In the Illegal ring, a 100+ "pit" would be in the weight class with other breed of dogs. Matches is still done by weight right? What respectable person wants to say, "my pit beat a boxer!!" or even yet, "my 100+ pit got his a$$ handed to him by..." this is not a game style match. i don't think. Alot of my response would sound like what was written in the M vs. F topic.

[DiMaSaLaNg]

whats up guys?

i would like to know what you think of these dogs from gladiator kennels, these are dogs weighing from 55-80 lbs protection dogs, some came from amberlite. do you have something to say about the breeders? im a fan of OFRN's and id like to have one someday.

http://www.gladiatorkennels.com/home.php?display=2

and who do you think is the purest breeders of ofrn's out there? what can you say about matrix, larsan and victorino kennels?

tnx.

[wisconsindog]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=186967 here is a 65-70 lber depending on the program i make .he has thrown out dogs over 90lbs and this dog has amazing natural wind hard bite and great over all ability and alot of big dogs can throw even bigger.

[realonebulldog]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=186967 here is a 65-70 lber depending on the program i make .he has thrown out dogs over 90lbs and this dog has amazing natural wind hard bite and great over all ability and alot of big dogs can throw even bigger. Nice boy....looks to my like a honest bulldog...nice one:)

[Iverson's Pits]

I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this was already mentioned, but Dogge De Bourdeaux was crossed into the "freeman" line of game apbt's. this is what started the weightpulling strain of "eddington" dogs. hope that helps a lil bit.



Just out of couriosity. I have a big Eddington dog. I have had smaller game lines in the past. When I got my dog I had just lost my ofrn, He took off after a bear one day didn't make back. When I got buster I wanted to get into weight pulling, after talking to alot of weight pullers they reccomended the Eddington line. I have heard people mention the Mastiff cross, my question is aren't Mastiff's known to have congential hip problems. If so why would they be crossed in weight pulling stock. I am not trying to start any trouble with this question, but it is something I have wondered about. I admit I did not know much about the bloodline when I got into it, but my intentions were weight pulling, and not trying to have the baddest looking dog. Is it possible that something else might have been brought into the line.

[realonebulldog]

I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this was already mentioned, but Dogge De Bourdeaux was crossed into the "freeman" line of game apbt's. this is what started the weightpulling strain of "eddington" dogs. hope that helps a lil bit. Yes, and they cross very much italie and spain blood in...for example the Perro de Presa Canario and the Cane Corso.....and the Dogo Argentino....E X A C T L Y from this we get that much big and blue so called Pitbulls....i dont know in wich lines exactly....but if you wanna know how a clean line looks....look for example at Sorrels or Boudreux stuff....:)

[Sid Finster]

Yes, and they cross very much italie and spain blood in...for example the Perro de Presa Canario and the Cane Corso.....and the Dogo Argentino....E X A C T L Y from this we get that much big and blue so called Pitbulls...
I wonder what was used to breed the Woods line of deformed dogs? If those things are 100% APBTs, there is an example of some extremely dedicated backdoor breeder action.

[Iverson's Pits]

they started out by taking a defected puppy back to its mother, and went from there. I looked at that site years ago, when they didn't have much, and if i remember correctly, that is what they did. take a defect back to the one who created it. it solidified that "trait" if you will in the blood. they went on from there. take a look at Thor and Brandy...those were the beginnings for them. its sad that they are breeding for a retardation...and thats all that is. those dogs are a bunch of retards...bluntly put. but they call it their "program"

I wonder what was used to breed the Woods line of deformed dogs? If those things are 100% APBTs, there is an example of some extremely dedicated backdoor breeder action.

[boa1277]

I will say this I just checked out the Woods Pits website, and just about threw up. It looks like the took the body of an English Bulldog and grafted a American Staff head to the body. Those dogs cannot be called APBT, did you see the one hanging from the stick I can guarantee that dog will let go within 10 seconds of grabing that stick, he was so fat it was very sad. It looks like they are using steroids to get size, because alot of those dogs had way to much water weight on them. Whomever came up with this Short Wide and Bully should be shot, they are promoting the demise of the breed. How about Stunted, Ugly, and No Gameness, I think those are better traits to describe these dogs. If this were the old days I would match any of my gamer dogs up against one of these deformed English Bulldogs. Actually I probably wouldnt because it isnt the dogs fault their Breeders are breeding CURS....

[PiTBuLL200416]

Plain And Simple If The Dog Doesn't Reach The Standards Of The Apbt Its Not An Apbt. People Call Anything That Looks Like A Pit Bull A Pit Bull And That Makes Me Hella Mad

[japangame]

That is probably the best answer you will get out of me......plain and simple. Bigger to some people sounds better.....but we all know the truth;) Game for life and fire in my eyes.simple answer...... money, those big dogs and pups are over priced.peddlers saw a way to make more money.

[japangame]

true. Good way to think of it.Plain And Simple If The Dog Doesn't Reach The Standards Of The Apbt Its Not An Apbt. People Call Anything That Looks Like A Pit Bull A Pit Bull And That Makes Me Hella Mad

[pennsooner]

I know it seems to have started with Mr. Eddington adding Mastif into his lines to make the dogs bigger for weightpull.

But IMO most of the increase you see is just to make money by peddlers. Newbies want big, impressive (to their eyes) dogs. They might not be real Pitbulls but it dosen't matter.

[Iverson's Pits]

Eddington added Dogge de Bordeaux.



I know it seems to have started with Mr. Eddington adding Mastif into his lines to make the dogs bigger for weightpull.

But IMO most of the increase you see is just to make money by peddlers. Newbies want big, impressive (to their eyes) dogs. They might not be real Pitbulls but it dosen't matter.

[japangame]

It was just popular demand for the little thugs/gangstas to look a bigger and badder and same for there dogs. What a bunch of dummies. You just cant change a good dog. Its not right:)

[realonebulldog]

Eddington added Dogge de Bordeaux. 60-70 years ago the dogge de bordeaux were absolut stabile and healthy dogs....and 120 years ago they looked pretty much like very big pitdogs....the same with the mastino neapolitano ...it was the showbreeding that makes cripple of them. The APBT is a special line, if he lost his genetic task or get to much strange blood he will vanish. His genetic task helps him to wash the strange blood away....thats why it makes(from my point of few)sense wen Earl Tudor sayd,,the dogs make the papers,, becose paper can not tell the trues.....:)

[miakoda]

60-70 years ago the dogge de bordeaux were absolut stabile and healthy dogs....and 120 years ago they looked pretty much like very big pitdogs....the same with the mastino neapolitano ...it was the showbreeding that makes cripple of them. The APBT is a special line, if he lost his genetic task or get to much strange blood he will vanish. His genetic task helps him to wash the strange blood away....thats why it makes(from my point of few)sense wen Earl Tudor sayd,,the dogs make the papers,, becose paper can not tell the trues.....:)
I disagree. You cannot tell me that the moloss breeds of old (the mastiffs) were the same size as pit dogs. That would mean the average size of a mastiff was about 30lbs. Sorry, but no go.

[realonebulldog]

I disagree. You cannot tell me that the moloss breeds of old (the mastiffs) were the same size as pit dogs. That would mean the average size of a mastiff was about 30lbs. Sorry, but no go. I dont speak about weight...I speak about look...in fact I said that this old (120-140years ago) mastiff-type dogs had the look of a very big (game bred ) Pit Dog...like for example Pit General....show breeding was not known at this time....dogfight,bearbaiting and bullbaiting where the favored tasks of this dogs......the same with the well known german butcher dog, the rottweiler 120-150 years ago they had the dogfight and bullbaiting as a genetic task.....and they were smaler and not souch heavy weights........look is nothing...performance is all.

[japangame]

Well, i just learned a nice chunk of info. Thank youu Realone. I dont speak about weight...I speak about look...in fact I said that this old (120-140years ago) mastiff-type dogs had the look of a very big (game bred ) Pit Dog...like for example Pit General....show breeding was not known at this time....dogfight,bearbaiting and bullbaiting where the favored tasks of this dogs......the same with the well known german butcher dog, the rottweiler 120-150 years ago they had the dogfight and bullbaiting as a genetic task.....and they were smaler and not souch heavy weights........look is nothing...performance is all.

[blackwolf2k]

its has alot to do with people that breeding their pitbulls to the game stock AB lines like Painter which are still rather small for AB around 60-70 lbs and also the Johnson lines. They bred those 100 lbs AB's to these Lil Pits and that started the uproar in size from 33 to 50 and bigger dogs..