Need Help Deciding!

[boostedaddiction]

I have found two males that I am interested in. Both are blue and the same price.

One male is Razors Edge/York

The other is Watchdog/Mason/Carver

The RE is much shorter/stockier
The W/M/C is taller/leaner

I am looking to see if there is an overall preference for either and what sort of traits go along these lines. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Jenn]

What are you interested in doing with the dog? Pet, weight pulling, breeding? I think it would depend on what traits you were more interested in.

[boostedaddiction]

Good point, I should have included that. He will be mainly a pet, but we will probably wind up studding him out to a reputable breeder. I refuse to deal with BYBs!!!

[AC]

Good point, I should have included that. He will be mainly a pet, but we will probably wind up studding him out to a reputable breeder. I refuse to deal with BYBs!!!
Well good luck with the decision. I personally didn't vote because I don't like either set of lines. But that's just my opinion. Once again... good luck.

[GrChPitBitch]

I didnt vote eather... not a big fan of those lines, or that color. The RE are nice looken dogs... but they dont look like pits (IMO) More like AmStaffs...

[boostedaddiction]

Thanks for the input. May I ask why you would not particularly choose either? I would like to keep that in mind.

[zombie106]

Get an American Bulldog if you are even considering anything with Razor's edge in it. If the dog is just going to be a house dog, than just get a Am Staff. or a rescue. And why are you even talking about bredding. You haven't even gotten the dog yet.


Looks like PhillyPitty 3#....

[boostedaddiction]

Actually, I have fostered two that I rescued from a kill shelter until finding them homes. In addition, I own two currently that I rescued from a BSL case in OH. The only reason I am not getting another rescue at this time, is because they always fix them (which they should) but I don't want to close the option of being able to possibly stud him or show him or anything for that matter. I don't 'plan' on doing anything with him, I am just keeping my options open and was just responding to the inquiry that someone had posted.

This is something we have been researching for 3+ years but finally have the room to add to our family. I plan on further rescuing/fostering in the future as well. But one big problem with that is many rescue orgs. won't let me because I own two already.

You know I have been lurking on this board for awhile because I feel it is one of the most knowledgeable out there. I was very hestitant to post, because some members can be quite harsh in there responses. I am looking for an opinion on breedlines, not to be flamed.

The reason I even ask these questions is because I feel too many people don't do enough research before making such a commitment. I want to know everything I can. For example, I considered a Redboy x but then I read that though they are highly game, but they also have lower than average intelligence. Now some of you may or may not agree with that, but that is something that I definitely want to consider when making my decision.

I know people have bad tastes in their mouths about people who are looking for the breed for all the wrong reasons, but rest assured my goal is to better the breed and provide a safe haven for them, not to make a quick buck.

I don't wabt an AB, I have grown up with several breeds of dogs, and the APBT/AMST breeds are my favorite. I think ABs have many attractive features but they are little too large for my liking. I like everything that comes with APBTs (muscle, agility, bulk....but in a small package!)

[boostedaddiction]

*I rephrase that last statement...I should have said "smaller" package, because they are by no means small!

[Crash97]

Then I guess the question I have is why would you want to breed more possibly shelter bound dogs when it is very obvious you are fully aware and interested in helping those already destined for there? By this I mean you said you have saved two from a shelter and another two that were most likely destined for a shelter (the BSL case).

Don't get me wrong I think we need more people like you willing to adopt those on deaths door (shelter/Humane Society). I just don't see a need for more to be bred just on account of a pedigree.

And so as not to ignore your question I personally wouldn't choose either one, because I feel each line is really only justified by its papers and not by what it has done. In other words, IMO both lines have been bred because they are another dog from a certain line with certain physical traits ie: lg. head, blue color, weigh 75 lb.+, etc. IMO these dogs should be bred according to their performance in some physical activity ie: weight pulling, hog catching/hog hunting, maybe Schutzhund if done by well qualified people (don't know enough about this sport to have an educated opinion).

[lambchop11078]

I don't wabt an AB, I have grown up with several breeds of dogs, and the APBT/AMST breeds are my favorite. I think ABs have many attractive features but they are little too large for my liking. I like everything that comes with APBTs (muscle, agility, bulk....but in a small package!)
If you want a big dog in a small package, get a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. They grow about 14-16" at the shoulder and around 35 lbs.

http://www.staffords.co.uk/coverdogs/cdgallery/eclypstaff.jpg

[Jenn]

Welcome to the site boosted. come on ya'll - he said he wanted to leave his options "open" basically. He's not wanting to breed right off but maybe get involved in something with the possibility of breeding in the future... Let's not flame too hard yet.. LOL

[boostedaddiction]

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. I am not concerned about the size of the dogs as far as the traits go. I have heard that is what RE/Watchdog are bred for. I also want to clarify because I feel that I may have been misunderstood. I am not wanting these dogs because of their lines. I just want another APBT, and have trouble with rescues leeting me adopt because I have two. I was asking about the lines because I didn't know the traits associated with them and didn't know if one was better in the case of agility, intelligence, companionship, and protection. And I also don't want one that is more inclined to eat my other ones up.

And again, to reiterate, I don't 'plan' on breeding him, or showing him, or weight pulling him, etc. I just want to keep the option there if it were something I ever chose to do.

He would eventually be fixed. By probably around 2-3 y.o. because it helps with behavior (humping etc.) and prevention of testicular cancer and such. I just don't want to take his manhood too early. My poor male is 66 lbs, but was fixed VERY early (prior to 12 weeks) so lets just say some his parts aren't proportional to his size and all the other dogs in the neighborhood pick on him ;-P

[SFK]

Boosted, If you are wanting a Petbull (which is what those lines represent) I think either will serve that purpose. I would even go so far as suggest you stick with that blood considering you want to keep fostering shelter dogs. Redboy dogs & others that come from game lines do not "play" well with others when they mature, so I would not suggest you get a dog from working game lines. Concentrate on breeders who register thru UKC, & you should find what you want. Also in the future try not to lump APBT's in with Amstaffs they are apples to oranges & most bulldog people look down on them worse than the blue dogs.

[boostedaddiction]

Now these are the kind of responses I was looking for! I need to learn to be more clear :-/ Jenn, thanks for coming to my defense.

SFK, thanks for the great info. Also, I am aware the APBT and Am staff breeds aren't the same that's why when I referenced them earlier I said that they are my favorite breeds (plural) because I too feel they are similar but different. I wouldn't mind having an AMstaff, but they seem to be a lot out of my price range!

I am going to see the W/M/C one today, and the RE one tomorrow so I am hoping to have a decision made this weekend. Oh and, if you were wondering why I am looking for a male it's because my female is a bitch and only likes males. My male is very laid back so he couldn't care less just as long as someone plays with him. My female thinks she is 'too good' to play!

You guys have helped a lot. I wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into before I purchased one that wasn't what I was looking for because (though I would never do it) that's how a lot end up homeless/on death row! I tried doing internet searches on histories of the lines and qualities in Google, but I couldn't find many good sources and it is very hard to weed through all the sites! Thanks again.

[Shon]

If you do happen to find any good sites that help you out, please be sure that you post it in the links directory on the site so others can benefit from it\them :)

[boostedaddiction]

Shon- will do!

[pit stop]

about the Watchdog/Mason/Carver dog, the only pet bull bloodline in that mix is the Watchdog. Mason dogs are working dogs used in hog hunting, and I dont think I need to tell anyone here anything about the Carver bloodline.


Watchdog's Blue Rebel's sire was UKC GR CH Couturier's Blue Bully.
Blue Bully was out of UKC Ch Couturier's Blue Max 2, who was out of UKC Ch California Blue( said by some to be the most conformationally perfect dog ever shown)

California Blue is only 4 generations out of Indian Bolio ROM, so even Watchdog bloodlines once came from the best of working dogs.

I am not a fan of the Razor Edge bloodline as I prefer a little taller more athletic dog than most of that bloodline seem to represent.

Pit Stop

[circlekpits]

I have a lot of the York bloodline here at my house. It is traditionally a show bred pit and yes might even have AMSTAFF in them, but when the AKC started the AMSTAFF what did they start with?

York Kennels has been around along time and showed in alot of shows. They have a lot of Champions in thier kennel.

The biggest question you want to ask is what do you really want out of choosing this breed?

I enjoy the ones that I have and wouldn't trade them for the world. Even the Blues.

Pick the one you like and be happy and treat it good. It will be loyal to you no matter if it has AMSTAFF in it or not.

[mutt]

and the comment you made about reboys being more game and little intellegence that where knowledge of selective breeding comes in where u chose a dog with smarts to go whit the redboys game for example i would choose snooty

[O.D.]

He will be mainly a pet, but we will probably wind up studding him out to a reputable breeder. I refuse to deal with BYBs!!! STUD HIM OUT BASED ON WHAT AND FOR WHAT? IF HE IS GOING TO BE YOUR PET SPAY HIM. I DIDN'T VOTE EITHER BECAUSE I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THE LINES ARE AND IT SOUNDS LIKE IT MIGHT BE SHOW STOCK. IF THAT IS THE CASE, IT'S NOT MY CUP OF TEA, THEREFORE I'LL KEEP MY COMMENTS TO MYSELF.

[jstorm]

i have york blood in one of my pits. she is a good loving dog. i do not have any problems out of her with my other dogs. i also have game breed dogs eli snooty and outlaw blood lines. so i have to keep her away from them for her on good.but it depends on what you r looking for, and if you just want a pet do not worry about what every one says about them being tested in some form only the poeple who plan to do something with their dog need know how well the blood lines have been tested through weight pulling hog hunting etc....

[BlueCrush]

Get an American Bulldog if you are even considering anything with Razor's edge in it. If the dog is just going to be a house dog, than just get a Am Staff. or a rescue. And why are you even talking about bredding. You haven't even gotten the dog yet.


Looks like PhillyPitty 3#....


what/whos phillypitty? I keep seeing that name in old posts

[wisconsindog]

Well people i have lonzo/watchdog/ofrn that is as game as the rest rember its not the ped on the dog but the heart of the dog if it has watch dogs Ch big thor that would be the only watch dog stuff i would use and i breed that bitch with pure razors edge dog not for money but this dog was a weight puller champ and a good hog dog just 70lbs and my bitch weighing in at 43lbs 1xer and a good bulldog imo didnt have blues but thats just the way it is dont like blues just wanted to ad some bulk ***Sorry we do not allow puppy sales on the site please go back and read the rules (Marty) ***
:cool:

[14rock]

......just a helpful hint. Take a look at the dates of the posts you are replying to. I should believe the original member asking the question picked a dog ;) and yes, most know that there is some watchdog stuff that works, although very little of it. We can infer your one of the few with decent watchdog blood before looks and size dominated their breedings.

[NORTH]

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!Well people i have lonzo/watchdog/ofrn that is as game as the rest rember its not the ped on the dog but the heart of the dog if it has watch dogs Ch big thor that would be the only watch dog stuff i would use and i breed that bitch with pure razors edge dog not for money but this dog was a weight puller champ and a good hog dog just 70lbs and my bitch weighing in at 43lbs 1xer and a good bulldog imo didnt have blues but thats just the way it is dont like blues just wanted to ad some bulk ***Sorry we do not allow puppy sales on the site please go back and read the rules (Marty) ***
:cool:

[Brothermarree]

York Cross wouldprobaly doyou better if you want good enough conformation to move and have agility. York cross might be more porpotionate.

[ABK]

I dunno. The York/RE is stocky staff stuff, while the the only staff blood in the WD/Mason/Carver comes from the 25% WD side. The other 75% is game blood & as such is more apt to be conformation correct.

As for Ruffian, it is bred down down from an AKC CH. named "The Ruffian." Ruffian was a heavy Tudor's Blackjack bred dog & while Ruffian dogs were once good game dogs, old-timey Ruffian dogs are near impossible to find these days. They've almost all been turned into play-pretties for the AKC set. :(

[14rock]

Again, the original member asking for the input asked this question in December of 2004. I think we can let this thread die unless the creator of the thread comes back ;)