The American Bully?

[WSBB PITS]

I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT DO THINK ABOUT THE NEW BLOOD LINES THAT CAME FROM THE APBT. LIKE, EDGE, GOTTI, REMY, SHOT SHOT, GRAY LINE, GAFF, NEVATA AND WHATCH DOG. THEY ALL HAVE REAL BIG HEADS, BIG BONES, REAL BIG THICK BODYS AND COME REAL SHORT AND TALL.

I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ARE THESE 100% APBT OR ARE THEY NOT.


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TAKING THE DRIVE IN A POSITIVE DIRECTION !!!

[mac 11]

Most of those bloodlines were bred for structure or appearance. True bulldogs were bred based on ability. If you do a little research you will see alot of those dogs have AST in them. This a no-go because that is a separate breed, why add something to another that already holds its own standard?

[WSBB PITS]

THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN THIKING, WHY FIX SOMETHING THAT IS NOT BROKEN.

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TAKING THE DRIVE IN A POSITIVE DIRECTION !!!<!-- / message -->
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[bahamutt99]

Well, I don't know if I'd lump all those bloodlines in together. Nevada is clearly a show kennel, but I wouldn't call their dogs bully. From what I've seen, lines like Watchdog and Greyline can go either way, and there are even some good Razors' Edge dogs out there. (Boogieman's Nick comes to mind. You might be able to find old pics of him still on this forum if you look.)

With regard to the American Bully in general, it's not something I would own and feed. But I fully support the enthusiasts of that type of dog calling it American Bully to make a distinction between that and a standard-bred APBT. As far as whether they're mixed or not, I don't doubt that some are. In other cases, they're just a fine example of what crappy breeding will do to good dogs. You can breed for dwarfism and exaggeration and turn an APBT into a treestump in short order, if you're dedicated enough to the idea of making it happen.

Just wanted to add that even though the focus of this board is gamedogs, we try to keep a tight rein on bully threads because they tend to spiral downhill quick. If this can stay civil and have a modicum of educational value, I think it can be allowed to stand. Just pre-emtively asking those who may want to contribute to temper their words so we don't have to lock 'er up. ;)

[ABK]

Just wanted to add, Watchdog was not originally bred for size or color. They were UKC show dogs who could be real deal bulldogs. WD bred dogs were a little bigger, usually 60 - ish, but they were bred to be in proportion, no big heads, wide chests, short legs, etc. It was only after the owner of WD kennels got out of the breed & fad breeders got a hold of his stuff that the WD blood began to go downhill. :(

[coolhandjean]

American Bullies are a mixature of the APBT, the Amstaff, the mastiff (in some cases) and the English Bulldog (in some cases), and who knows what else.

[jason r]

I have a couple of buddies that defend the camelot line being pure.What are some of your opinions?

[Scratch & Sniff]

I have a couple of buddies that defend the camelot line being pure.What are some of your opinions?

Get new buddies?

[jason r]

Get new buddies?
I cant hate my buddies just because they want to be to stubborn to realize what a true apbt is.

[bahamutt99]

My opinion is that purity really doesn't matter. They may very well be pure. But for any line or any kennel of dogs, once you get to the point that they deviate greatly from the standard, call them something else. I always use this example, but if I took purebred Rottweilers, discovered a mutant gene that made them come out white, and then started breeding my white dogs for a smaller size -- say, 40 pounds -- would my 40-pound white Rotties still be Rotties? I think not.

[JBlazeRx7]

Rrrrrrrrrruffff! Rrrrrrruffff! Scratch... Scratch.....!;)

[PREACHER]

I My Self Do Not Believe These Dogs To Be 100%. It Has Been Allegded That Many Of These Bloodlines(re,eddington,chevy) Consist Of Masstiff Type Dogs. This In It Self Takes Them Out Of Our Breed. However, If They Choose To Call Themselves American Bullies I See No Problem With This, And With This They Should Promote Themselves As Such. As We Find Out To Often When Mixing Our Dogs With Others You Take Away Stability In The Mind Sometimes, I Believe This Is Where We Come Up With Alot Of The Bad Press. Just My Opinion

[TRUEPITS]

well let me put my 2 cents on this...
I think the begining of the american bully people have a misconception..Lets just put one dog that comes to everybody's mind notorious juan gotty...now his pedigree he is PR his pedigree is all show dogs from UKC..anyways amstaff...now obviously this now was a amstaff with much more muscle mass and he wasn't overly exagerated either as far as amstaff goes but still he was a dog at the time not seen anywhere and got fame..Ok the owner got greedy and started studded him out with just any bitch...Now as you all know if not breeding correctly diseases are passed on, deformations and so on...What i think also really happened was too much of inbreeding done by people with little knowledge on a purpose of a breeder..Not only was the breeding done for stupid things like Color, size of head, size of dog but also the bitches chosen were not propertly inspected as far as pedigree, what diseases are found in the family tree, also genetic disorders stuff like that..So i think over the years...and also breeding dogs before mature age in which you really start seeing problems have caused to their offsprings of their offsprings of their offpsrings in which we see now to look as how they are looking.. YOu can take a look at many books of dogmen and you will see apbts that have a face of a american bulldog, or maybe are large, have the bow leggs as well...and they are game bred...the difference is those dogman always kept one purpose in mind and that is breeding the dog for performance well gameness which is what the apbt is all about...while these guys not only their dogs were just show but they stopped breeding according to comformation and started wanting to do things differently breed for other purposes...
So its really and truly not a case of crossbreeding but irresponsible breeding in resulting to diseases that are passed on to the offsprings in which are now being seen present physically as before they focused too much on just the outside and even the outside aspects were not what a breeder should be looking for. The small deal that apbts were not bred for performance and only show you see a more massive dog..so imagine taht dog being bred to be even more massive and not even for show just no purpose for the breeding...

same with razor's edge their one of their main bully well the begining was the Gr Ch Razor's Edge Throwing Knuckles now his pedigree has AKC amstaff in it...to some that's cross breding to others its not...i mean to me a show dog with all apbt is still amstaff so same thing to me...not the same as gamebred apbt of course...anyways so it wasn't cross bred with mastiffs or bulldogs nothing like that..it was getting AKC amstaffs with PR UKC registered apbt and in honestly a lot of them also especially for Gotti on some of their first "bullies" the dogs had game bred dogs in it with it with PR UKC apbt...
Razor's edge in particular when they got their first "american bully" on how they wanted which was like NOtorious Juan GOtty but short to the ground it was Cairo..cairo's pedigree is actually a lot of champions from UKC and some GR of AKC..
they just would find a AKC the shortest as they could find and as stocky as they could find and UKC champions as shortest as they could find...to finally they got Cairo...

Again now i think what really is happening is these two got real popular and when things are in demand of course people seize the opportunity because human are greedy and i do think these two lost site and the truth of what a breeder is truly about and totally ignored what they were doing to the breed...just like the AKC people how they lost site on how they affected the breed in the long run as well as UKC...

So the dogs we see now is just product of irresponsible breeding..these dogs got popular the young ones thought man i can get adog like that they can produce at 6 months of age and I make $$$$...and had no clue on anything pure ignorance...Anyways we had a show here in Texas this week to raise money for EBA and we had a ring for the American Bully we had Gary out there to speak to them on the importance of being active with the laws and being responsible of course...I was helping with the registration and it was soooooo mind blowing to me how most of these american bullies were not even registered with UKC in which that's what i thought but registered with ADBA...and what was more crazy was these people did not even know about the ADBA standard I had the boards out there ADBA ring UKC and ABKC ring and they would come with their bullies to the ADBA to register them under ADBA ring...some even tried to argue with me saying no my dog is ADBA and I'm explaning to them listen this is an educational fun show and there is a standard STANDARD for the APBt For adba and ukc and abkc is not apbt but american bully...here is where your dog fits the standard...

Now ADBA has allowed many many people to write their dogs pedigree and send it in and they still allow them to register their dogs as APBT...knowing in fact that their dogs were cross bred or honestly the pedigree was bs...that has also done a great deal with all this chaos...

We need to educate these people on the importance of first a BREEDEr is not just for anybody that job is not for just anybody and there is a purpose and goal and responsibility...
TWO on judging the dogs and that is more for UKC when juding apbt it should be judged on what it was bred for..every other breed is judged based on what they were bred for and that's why they can keep consistancy and less chaos...At least UKC is attempting to put the standard more towards a working/performance dog as to what it was mainly a show dog which truly is amstaff. its still not as true to the apbt as ADBA has kept with but at least its a start...Even my dog who I say is amstaff i mean i condition her to be lean and she's a working dog...no one gets food for free at my home..everything i put her to do she must do and she does it liking it and always happy to do it..but when she is conditioned to what i like her to be lean around 48 actually to me i like her even more leaner 45...at UKC ring next to a 55 pound more "bulkY' they pick the other one..now when i don't condition her and let her get fat really at 55 lbs the judges love her...A working dog next to a show dog is completly different and its hard to judge and the judges are somewhat ignorant to the history of the breed and choose amstaffs. Buhamut's dog i wasn't in the ring with them i don't think but like if my bitch loses to their dogs i'm happy to me the judge placed the working/performance apbt...if i lose to a big ass amstaff with thick ass head and neck, a dog that is not agile, has no wind i mean i get upset but there's nothing i can do because to some judges from UKC who are also judges in AKC that's their preferences...

I also wish UKC and ADBA will stop allowing AKC dogs to be registered with them as apbt, and further more no longer allow AKC dogs be bred to adba or ukc registered dogs and not allow their litters to be registered...
Notorious Juan Gotty and the dogs of Razor's edge in all reality were never a true american bully they were just amstaffs with more muscles...and dogs that stocky were seen although rare back in the day as well...it was nothing new....

My blue female has Notorious Juan GOtty in her pedigree her whole pedigree mainly is bulldogs working dogs really or show apbt from ukc which is truly amstaffs to be she is a bulldog she is a working dog...when i tell people she has Notorious Juan Gotty in her pedigree they dont' believe it because of how she looks...and the offsprings of Notorious Juan Gotty in her pedigree they are all show dogs(amstaffs) and some were actually used to work...anyways long story short i call her a bulldog or amstaff... to some she represents the apbt in a positive light..because she is involved with everythign agility, weight pull, obedience and although not my favorite she does conformation and is champion in UKC...
next year we will be doing some hog hunting and i want to involve her in more things...

when a dog is no longer being bred for what is was truly bred for genetics change...and i think that's the reality of it...( i do agree maybe with some dogs maybe possibility of breeding with mastiffs like the whopper line, but i would say what we see right now is just product of stupid breeding methods if they are even methods, doesn't mean all razor's edge and gotty dogs are bad..)

oh and another thing which i've been seeing is people saying they have "gottiline" or razor's edge bloodline but its like my dogs she is not gottiline bloodline..that's just how confused these guys can be...

[~apbtfriend~]

oh and another thing which i've been seeing is people saying they have "gottiline" or razor's edge bloodline but its like my dogs she is not gottiline bloodline..that's just how confused these guys can be...

I agree with you ! , but I have heard that Dave wilson has mixed in breeds , I also remember seeing like 5 years ago on a few American bully ( mainly blue nation kennels) websites saying something along the lines of their dogs could be mixed but the passed is the passed and what we have today are great dogs etc... then a week later they all took that long paragraph down ?!?! .....

I also agree with these people be very ignorant and confused. They seem to think a line is created because they get one bad ass stud dog. then they say its a bloodline ?!?!

I also noticed over the years of research that a lot of these dogs are sick not even healthy , I keep seeing RIP on a lot of kennels the dogs where not even old. I have noticed from Ruckus kennels they have a bunch of RIP on their dogs . Some died from heat stroke ..... I mean if you can keep breeding these dogs and notice they are not living full healthy lives why keep breeding ? But o wait I forgot its all about $$$ ........

[TRUEPITS]

sorry but Dave wilson his mix was AMSTAFF WITH APBT...nothing else...and people took it and you know how rumors start...
you can say all what you have heard but the truth is his mix was that...and again to some it is a mixing to others its not...if people in UKC bash that then most of them have mixed dogs then...u kno what i mean...? What we must keep on doing is educating the importance of being responsble breeder believe me I come across these youngings and I feel like killing them with my bare hands...but bashing them just makes them get more fueled...But teaching them what the responsibility of a breeder is makes the wheel turn a little to further educate on the realities of things...

[clmr]

Can someone post a pic (showing an example) of each of these BULLY lines. I would like to see the visual differences of each American BULLY line.

[TRUEPITS]

Ok so at the begining this is what they were producing basically amstaffs, this dog was even a grand champion for UKC...Paddington
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/paddington.jpg

This bitch was then bred to this AKC ch stud
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/dfwatuka-1.jpg
in which is found in plenty pedigrees of dogs in UKC today even those people who bash the american bully find themselves with similar pedigrees...maybe a change in the bitch or stud here in there... and these two created their first true bully which really gave razor's edge "fame" OMG fame anyways..
Cairo
here is pedigree somebody actualy did one...
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=125913
here is photo
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/cairo.jpg


but now the youngings once these dogs got I dunno in demand and their stud fee was so expensive their pups for some reason worth 3000 people wanted to breed razor's edge most dogs are not even full razor's edge but kennels promote it as such

and these dogs are being produced...beware of ugliness..

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/gremlin_front_01.jpg

ok that's razor's edge

[TRUEPITS]

OK now to Notorious Juan Gotty...basically his father's side is mainly show dogs from UKC and also Amstaffs... here is sire of Notorious Juan Gotty and the parents of his sire...
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/32696.gif
Sire
PR Chain Gang's Barney
Dam
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/Barney.jpg
Pr Tony's Showtime...
OK SO Greyline Raider 2 was bred to this bitch here
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/76992.jpg
PR GRAY LINES CALLE LOVE BLUEGOOD (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=76992)which was basically his daughter...
her dam was
'PR' TEE'S NEW MERCY (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=41296)

the pedigree all show dogs PR UKC apbt and some akc grand champion here and there...

creating this...
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/68594.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/gotti9.gif
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/APBTPRNotoriousJuanGotti.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/GOTTY.jpg

now he was over bred bred with some good bitches and some bad...

and irresponsible breeders same as with razor's edge are now producing this and calling it a "good" quality gottiline dog...most don't even have gotty more then twice...
anyways...here is again beware of ugliness
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/VICTORIA2011.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/whiskey1_003.jpg

now this is a female direct daughter of notorious juan gotty dam is pr certified blue town baby...her pedigree all amstaffs really UKC apbt...

and this is what you get and the concept of what american bully should be
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/shapeimage_11-1.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/shapeimage_13-1.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/Kali40theshow-1.jpg


Notorious Juan Gotty

[BoogiemanBlood]

Well this is beating a dead horse subject but here goes. I own a dog that is RE x York. His is a damn good dog. Works hard if I ask him to. Great attitude. You really couldn't ask for a better pet. He isn't DA in the least. He isn't a deformity of disgust like some of the bullies you see waddling around now days. Some of them dogs I look at make me hurt from the horrible structure they have. When I tell most people how he's bred they look at me like I'm lying. Some don't. I know what he is though and he has never, nor will he ever be bred....and I've had at least 100 offers. :rolleyes: I would like people to see though that not all the dogs that carry RE in the ped are crappy, squatty, basketball head sized mutts. That don't make him any better or worse than any other dog. That's just my personal opinion. (oh btw he isn't in near as good of shape as he can be in any of these pics)

One more thing, I can't stand it when any bully owner wants to spout off PR like it has anything to do with the quality of the dog. We all know it doesn't mean squat and it's simply a byb term to lure more unsuspecting, undeducated buyers in for the kill. WhoopDEE shit......PR.

Here he is
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s229/BoogiemanBlood/DSC08664.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s229/BoogiemanBlood/DSC08677.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s229/BoogiemanBlood/DSC07534.jpg

[~apbtfriend~]

[quote=TRUEPITS;297079]sorry but Dave wilson his mix was AMSTAFF WITH APBT...nothing elsequote]

Again This is what I read on some of the top American bullies website, these are not youngins as you cal theml , these are people who are way older than me , I would consider my self a youngin lol Im 24 the people I mention are in their 30-50's ? if I am wrong.

I really don't care how these dogs are bred nor mixed ( i do not plan on getting one) , before I was into UKC show dogs and AKC and I do know all of Dave wilson's dogs have always been dual registered same goes for Pam's dogs. Some people just don't get it like you stated.

I know these Youngins that want to breed their dogs , and they have no clue on what they are doing. I edjucate them all the time but they don't want to listen all they care about is money and fame. One has a UKC PR Bitch that is descent looking. His brother has a Cane corso/ pit mix she is blue and he keeps calling her a apbt .. I keep telling him he has a mutt and he should not breed her ... I bet she has already had puppies :rolleyes:

What is the name of the last dog ? I was showing these guys on my ipod the difference btwn muscled and fat I have a pic of that last dog and I was impressed with her I think I have a pic of her being bred to this male that is equally impressive looking

[~apbtfriend~]

Can someone post a pic (showing an example) of each of these BULLY lines. I would like to see the visual differences of each American BULLY line.

That is kind of a hard question, since people who breed these dogs do not have a lot of knowledge you could get a mixed range of looks from some lines like Gotti and razor edge ..

Just how Boogieman posted not all of these dogs will be fat squatty and big headed.

[bahamutt99]

One more thing, I can't stand it when any bully owner wants to spout off PR like it has anything to do with the quality of the dog. We all know it doesn't mean squat and it's simply a byb term to lure more unsuspecting, undeducated buyers in for the kill. WhoopDEE shit......PR.

PR isn't a BYB term, but it also doesn't mean what some people want their buyers to think it means. Loki is PR. It's a registrative honorific resulting from 3 gens behind her being UKC registered. Terra and Priest are not PR because there are ADBA dogs in their close pedigree that I'm assuming had to be UKC single-registered for their breedings. So PR does mean something to somebody. It just isn't a show title or indication of quality by any means. When people get to talking about triple PR, one-time PR winner, that's when it's fair to call BS.

[clmr]

TruePits, thanks for the info. and I appreciate the way you broke it down for me. I will probably never own a Bully. But, I now have a greater appreciation for the Bullys.

[BoogiemanBlood]

PR isn't a BYB term, but it also doesn't mean what some people want their buyers to think it means. Loki is PR. It's a registrative honorific resulting from 3 gens behind her being UKC registered. Terra and Priest are not PR because there are ADBA dogs in their close pedigree that I'm assuming had to be UKC single-registered for their breedings. So PR does mean something to somebody. It just isn't a show title or indication of quality by any means. When people get to talking about triple PR, one-time PR winner, that's when it's fair to call BS.
Well I do agree that technically you are correct. We both know that alot of scumbag breeders use it as a term to impress people like it's something special.

[bahamutt99]

Well I do agree that technically you are correct. We both know that alot of scumbag breeders use it as a term to impress people like it's something special.

Yeah, they're good at that. Catch phrases are the BYB's specialty. You ever watch the boards and see how many newbies come in with questions about their new BYB pup that's from the Brindle bloodline, or the Jersey bloodline, or the Gatanose bloodline? And so on... :cool:

[smokey024]

now this is a female direct daughter of notorious juan gotty dam is pr certified blue town baby...her pedigree all amstaffs really UKC apbt...

and this is what you get and the concept of what american bully should be
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/shapeimage_11-1.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/shapeimage_13-1.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/Kali40theshow-1.jpg


Notorious Juan Gotty


I am not a big fan of bullies but this is a good looking dog.

[TRUEPITS]

yea i mean the concept of the american bully was truly a amstaff with more muscle mass not extreme but more cut up...and like i said my female Kali she has notorious juan gotty in her pedigree to me she's not american bully and no one sees her that way to me she's a bulldog or amstaff...here's a picture of her somewhat conditioned here she's at 48
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/2868003584_bb40f92b02.jpg
here she was at 46 lbs
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/2822754048_c7697c904a.jpg
here she is for UKC at around 53 lbs i believe...

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/2899827394_16ffa2a4d8.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/2898761960_f3e711c465.jpg

here she was around 48 to 49 but wasn't doing too much cardio work
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/2738658090_9d7967d09f.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/Brzlngoddess/2545366710_25fddb6471.jpg

[TRUEPITS]

yea so I mean you know when people who have no clue on our breed speak on them saying stupid things like oh their fighting breed so they're dangerous to humans we know game bred dogs although dog aggressive are the most stable dogs..so i mean one thing I've learned owning this breed and owning amstaffs so forth don't just take anything as facts what you hear research yourself and you def learn...so people bashing gottiline and razor's edge is nonsense the things that are said are ridiculous there's much more..although not my preference either to have dogs that are not as agile or some that are just overdone..there's much more to it...the truth is these dogs went into the wrong hands and young guys was looking at $$$ and some did not have understanding at all of the breed it derived from and even on standards and what a breeder's job truly is...

so next time you guys run into BYB like i say befriend and teach them the right way..i've seen many evolve and which now take things more seriously and see things in a different view...

[velli2008]

Just wanted to add, Watchdog was not originally bred for size or color. They were UKC show dogs who could be real deal bulldogs. WD bred dogs were a little bigger, usually 60 - ish, but they were bred to be in proportion, no big heads, wide chests, short legs, etc. It was only after the owner of WD kennels got out of the breed & fad breeders got a hold of his stuff that the WD blood began to go downhill. :(


I am definately in agreement with your statement. I have a close friend that has only one dog, and she is one of the tightest bred watchdog botches i have personally seen. She is what the line USED TO BE. She's 45 pounds soaking wet, and is conformation PERFECT!! I just don't get why someone would want to take a line, that has produced such fine looking dogs, and run some BS fatback heffers into it to make them short, thick and worthless. That's just my personal apperance. I am one for the smaller, more lean dogs. I do not own any "blue stuff" nor do i have any want in me to do so in the future. I am definately a lover of the REAL apbt.

[~apbtfriend~]

so next time you guys run into BYB like i say befriend and teach them the right way..i've seen many evolve and which now take things more seriously and see things in a different view...


Yes I agree I tried to help those guys out but I doubt they listen, I explained a lot to them on why they should not want the bigger shorter dogs and they should try to get dogs that look like that white and blue bitch you posted or these dogs

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/BlackRhinoWhiteWidow.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/RHINOXKALI.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/CaponePA3_May05.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/blacky_may03.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/ChiliPepa011_X.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/ChiliPepa214_X.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/Magoo1yr.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/mommas_banner.jpg

[TRUEPITS]

Listen I undesrtand what you are saying..I have recently lost control and bashed a couple youngings...because their ignorance just made me see red... I always say bashing them is not the way to go..but some they know they are doing is wrong..they know they have no knowledge they know they're not even breeding to the set standard the american bully has and yet they still out there over breeding this dogs...

Some yea you need to hit them over the head...shake them a lil..after all i'm here fighting to keep my dogs and yours my dogs deserve to be here why do yours especially if you do not care of the breed of choice you like...especially if you are not even breeding according to the breed of choice you like...so today in one of the forums man i just went off...sometimes it happens...
but the constant bickering on how their dogs are bred through mastiff and english bull dogs is just ridiculous also...

and i avoid the little bickering or the subjects that is really beating on the dead horse...

some are willing to learn and once they understand they do evolve..and there are those brick headed SOBs who are not even worthy to own any dog...

[PREACHER]

well let me put my 2 cents on this...
I think the begining of the american bully people have a misconception..Lets just put one dog that comes to everybody's mind notorious juan gotty...now his pedigree he is PR his pedigree is all show dogs from UKC..anyways amstaff...now obviously this now was a amstaff with much more muscle mass and he wasn't overly exagerated either as far as amstaff goes but still he was a dog at the time not seen anywhere and got fame..Ok the owner got greedy and started studded him out with just any bitch...Now as you all know if not breeding correctly diseases are passed on, deformations and so on...What i think also really happened was too much of inbreeding done by people with little knowledge on a purpose of a breeder..Not only was the breeding done for stupid things like Color, size of head, size of dog but also the bitches chosen were not propertly inspected as far as pedigree, what diseases are found in the family tree, also genetic disorders stuff like that..So i think over the years...and also breeding dogs before mature age in which you really start seeing problems have caused to their offsprings of their offsprings of their offpsrings in which we see now to look as how they are looking.. YOu can take a look at many books of dogmen and you will see apbts that have a face of a american bulldog, or maybe are large, have the bow leggs as well...and they are game bred...the difference is those dogman always kept one purpose in mind and that is breeding the dog for performance well gameness which is what the apbt is all about...while these guys not only their dogs were just show but they stopped breeding according to comformation and started wanting to do things differently breed for other purposes...
So its really and truly not a case of crossbreeding but irresponsible breeding in resulting to diseases that are passed on to the offsprings in which are now being seen present physically as before they focused too much on just the outside and even the outside aspects were not what a breeder should be looking for. The small deal that apbts were not bred for performance and only show you see a more massive dog..so imagine taht dog being bred to be even more massive and not even for show just no purpose for the breeding...

same with razor's edge their one of their main bully well the begining was the Gr Ch Razor's Edge Throwing Knuckles now his pedigree has AKC amstaff in it...to some that's cross breding to others its not...i mean to me a show dog with all apbt is still amstaff so same thing to me...not the same as gamebred apbt of course...anyways so it wasn't cross bred with mastiffs or bulldogs nothing like that..it was getting AKC amstaffs with PR UKC registered apbt and in honestly a lot of them also especially for Gotti on some of their first "bullies" the dogs had game bred dogs in it with it with PR UKC apbt...
Razor's edge in particular when they got their first "american bully" on how they wanted which was like NOtorious Juan GOtty but short to the ground it was Cairo..cairo's pedigree is actually a lot of champions from UKC and some GR of AKC..
they just would find a AKC the shortest as they could find and as stocky as they could find and UKC champions as shortest as they could find...to finally they got Cairo...

Again now i think what really is happening is these two got real popular and when things are in demand of course people seize the opportunity because human are greedy and i do think these two lost site and the truth of what a breeder is truly about and totally ignored what they were doing to the breed...just like the AKC people how they lost site on how they affected the breed in the long run as well as UKC...

So the dogs we see now is just product of irresponsible breeding..these dogs got popular the young ones thought man i can get adog like that they can produce at 6 months of age and I make $$$$...and had no clue on anything pure ignorance...Anyways we had a show here in Texas this week to raise money for EBA and we had a ring for the American Bully we had Gary out there to speak to them on the importance of being active with the laws and being responsible of course...I was helping with the registration and it was soooooo mind blowing to me how most of these american bullies were not even registered with UKC in which that's what i thought but registered with ADBA...and what was more crazy was these people did not even know about the ADBA standard I had the boards out there ADBA ring UKC and ABKC ring and they would come with their bullies to the ADBA to register them under ADBA ring...some even tried to argue with me saying no my dog is ADBA and I'm explaning to them listen this is an educational fun show and there is a standard STANDARD for the APBt For adba and ukc and abkc is not apbt but american bully...here is where your dog fits the standard...

Now ADBA has allowed many many people to write their dogs pedigree and send it in and they still allow them to register their dogs as APBT...knowing in fact that their dogs were cross bred or honestly the pedigree was bs...that has also done a great deal with all this chaos...

We need to educate these people on the importance of first a BREEDEr is not just for anybody that job is not for just anybody and there is a purpose and goal and responsibility...
TWO on judging the dogs and that is more for UKC when juding apbt it should be judged on what it was bred for..every other breed is judged based on what they were bred for and that's why they can keep consistancy and less chaos...At least UKC is attempting to put the standard more towards a working/performance dog as to what it was mainly a show dog which truly is amstaff. its still not as true to the apbt as ADBA has kept with but at least its a start...Even my dog who I say is amstaff i mean i condition her to be lean and she's a working dog...no one gets food for free at my home..everything i put her to do she must do and she does it liking it and always happy to do it..but when she is conditioned to what i like her to be lean around 48 actually to me i like her even more leaner 45...at UKC ring next to a 55 pound more "bulkY' they pick the other one..now when i don't condition her and let her get fat really at 55 lbs the judges love her...A working dog next to a show dog is completly different and its hard to judge and the judges are somewhat ignorant to the history of the breed and choose amstaffs. Buhamut's dog i wasn't in the ring with them i don't think but like if my bitch loses to their dogs i'm happy to me the judge placed the working/performance apbt...if i lose to a big ass amstaff with thick ass head and neck, a dog that is not agile, has no wind i mean i get upset but there's nothing i can do because to some judges from UKC who are also judges in AKC that's their preferences...

I also wish UKC and ADBA will stop allowing AKC dogs to be registered with them as apbt, and further more no longer allow AKC dogs be bred to adba or ukc registered dogs and not allow their litters to be registered...
Notorious Juan Gotty and the dogs of Razor's edge in all reality were never a true american bully they were just amstaffs with more muscles...and dogs that stocky were seen although rare back in the day as well...it was nothing new....

My blue female has Notorious Juan GOtty in her pedigree her whole pedigree mainly is bulldogs working dogs really or show apbt from ukc which is truly amstaffs to be she is a bulldog she is a working dog...when i tell people she has Notorious Juan Gotty in her pedigree they dont' believe it because of how she looks...and the offsprings of Notorious Juan Gotty in her pedigree they are all show dogs(amstaffs) and some were actually used to work...anyways long story short i call her a bulldog or amstaff... to some she represents the apbt in a positive light..because she is involved with everythign agility, weight pull, obedience and although not my favorite she does conformation and is champion in UKC...
next year we will be doing some hog hunting and i want to involve her in more things...

when a dog is no longer being bred for what is was truly bred for genetics change...and i think that's the reality of it...( i do agree maybe with some dogs maybe possibility of breeding with mastiffs like the whopper line, but i would say what we see right now is just product of stupid breeding methods if they are even methods, doesn't mean all razor's edge and gotty dogs are bad..)

oh and another thing which i've been seeing is people saying they have "gottiline" or razor's edge bloodline but its like my dogs she is not gottiline bloodline..that's just how confused these guys can be...


OKAY I HEAR YOU, BUT I MUST ASK YOU TO TAKE I LOOK AT RIOS PIT BULL KINGDOM AND CHECK OUT THE ILLIGITIMATE APBTS LINK IN THEIR PAGE ALSO I HAVE TO DO SOME MORE RESEARCH WHERE I FOUND THE READ ON ( RE). I'M NOT BASHING BLUES CUASE THIS SITE ALSO HELP ME FIND THAT AT ONE TIME THERE WERE ACTUALLY LEGITIMATE GAME BLUE DOGS. BUT WHEN YOU SAY LOOK AT OLD DOGS OF THE PAST. I HAVE SEEN VERY FEW WHICH RESEMBLE THESE MASSTIFF LOOKING DOGS WE SEE TODAY. ALSO DOGMEN OF THE PAST KNEW THAT THEY STILL NEED A GOOD BUILT DOG TO GO TO WORK, SO BODY STRUCTURE I HAVE TO BELIEVE WAS IN MIND WHEN THEY WERE BREEDING A DOG. REMEBER THEY ARE THE ONES WERE TRUE CONFORMATION WAS THOUGHT OF, THE AKC,UKC,ABDA ALL HAD TO LOOK AT THE MEN OF OLD.I WRITE THIS WITH MUCH RESPECT TO ALL DOGMEN AND WOMEN WHO READ IT. I JUST THINK THAT SO MANY OF THESE BLOODLINES HAVE BEN POLLUTED WITH OTHER BREEDS BECUASE OF LOOK OR SIZE OR EVEN TRINYING TO MAKE THESE DOGS OUT OF ATTACK DOGS (BAD PRESS). BUT I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IN REGUARD NOT ALL ARE BREED THIS WAY.

[renegadepit]

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Thats Cali White Widow..
Bad Bitch right there!

[renegadepit]

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/6/9/7/0/renegade_hanging.jpg

This is my Juan Gotty Grandson hangin from a rope.... You could see other pics of him in my images...most of them playin with the spring pole.. But I could tell you one thing.. He is drivey as hell!!