How do i tighten up a bloodline??

[DaGreatestPits]

.............

[bahamutt99]

Well, I should mention first that people who create their own bloodlines, that takes a lot of time and dedication to achieve. It's not something you can knock off in a few generations. And it involves breeding a fair amount of dogs. So you need to consider if you've got the room to keep dozens of dogs, or if you've got enough people working with you that will help you farm out dogs and whatnot. I've only got room enough for a handful of dogs with how I do things, and I know that I will never have a bloodline of my own. The best I can hope for is doing a few outstanding breedings that will be remembered for helping to improve the breed.

Anyway, do you have a mentor? That should be where you start. Find someone who's been around the breed a long time and can help guide you. You're already starting with a fairly scattered lineage on your dogs, so you could probably use an expert hand to help you fix that. Or maybe they'll even tell you you're not starting off with the right dogs to achieve your goal down the road.

In the meantime, what are you doing with your dogs? Show, weight pull, agility, hog hunting, etc? You should have some kind of "proving ground" where you evaluate which dogs are suitable for breeding in your program and which don't make the cut. Since this is a performance breed, it should be something that challenges the dog mentally and physically.

[DaGreatestPits]

.............................

[bahamutt99]

Hmm. Where to begin...

For starters, you're breeding a CKC female. So any pups off her, her offspring, and so on are not going to be eligible for any kind of legitimate registration. You've already done the breeding(s), but I wouldn't have bred her at all, just because you're already putting yourself in a situation where you couldn't place those dogs in homes that want to do sanctioned events. Part of building your "name," is being able to place dogs with people who will continue a legacy of excellence and will get out there and do right by your dogs. Folks looking for a dog to show/work probably wont touch that.

Secondly, you're separating your pups' prices based on what color they will be, and you say in your sales agreement that blue pups go fast. Emphasis on color is buying into the fad and is a sign of a backyard breeder, not somebody reputable. You might want to rethink that.

You seem to place a lot of emphasis on size, as well. As people will tell you, this is a medium-sized breed. There are lots of people out there breeding dogs for size, head girth, thick bone, and color. Those are selling points that are impressive to breed newbies. Exaggeration appeals to amateurs because they think they're getting something unique. Experienced APBT people are going to ask you about your dog's structural strengths and weaknesses, its accomplishments, its working ability, its temperament. They will care less about color, and will view an 80 lb dog as a drawback rather than an advantage.

It also looks like you're breeding dogs at a young age. Hercules looks like a puppy and already has a stud price. I don't know how old Zeus is, but you've already bred him. Slow down and give your dogs a chance to mature and prove themselves. If you're wanting to get into shows, do that first. Get some bragging rights (and some OFA (http://www.offa.org/) health tests) before you have your dogs procreate. If your dogs are healthy, they've got a lot of breeding years ahead of them. There's no reason whatsoever to rush it.

Additionally, use the term "game" with caution. There is only one way to truly prove gameness, and that's illegal. You don't want to promote your dogs as something they're not. That will only create trouble for you.

Yes, you can start a bloodline with scatterbred dogs, but what a dog produces depends at least partly on how they're bred. If you've got a dog that's got 5 different bloodlines in the pedigree, it could be producing all kinds of different stuff. It could produce dogs that take after the Watchdog blood, or some of its pups could look like Grapevine dogs, or whatever. Bloodlines are about consistency. If you're starting off with dogs that are already all over the place, you're going to have to do a lot more work to tighten it up.

I just looked at your sales agreement, and it doesn't look like you offer your buyers any kind of security if, say, they get a dog from you that ends up having hip dysplasia. The way you've got it written, it protects you, but not your pups that you place. There's no requirement for folks getting a pet-quality dog to get it neutered. There's nothing that says if they get to a point where they can't keep the dog, that they are required to bring it back to you and not dump it in a shelter. Basically how it reads to me is "once you've got that puppy, good bye and good luck." I didn't even see anything written that the new owner is forbidden from engaging in illegal acts with the dog. You might want to contact some reputable breeders and find out how they write their contracts.

Sorry to sound so negative, but hopefully you will take it as constructive criticism like you asked for. :) I can't help you with the questions about pedigree percentages and whatnot, because I am not well-versed yet in breeding aspects. (Honestly, the concept that you can breed two not-fully-Watchdog bloodlines and get a 100% Watchdog puppy doesn't make mathematical sense.) Hopefully you stick around and allow the more knowledgeable people on this board to help guide you.

[DaGreatestPits]

Thanks for the info. That female i bred was a pet only and got mistakely bred because of my girlfriend not knowing to keep her away from the males. She is a great dog but wasnt a part of my breeding stock she was my girlfriends pet. i already got some good homes lined up for some of the pups not all yet but they will all have good homes even if i have to keep whats left over. And i got a price on Hercules but he cant even be bred yet he is only 6months i just get antsy and do stuff early so i had a price for stud for him the day i got him at 16weeks lol. Zeus is almost 2yrs old. Everything i did with my site is just rough draft and i needed commments and concerns like this to make it right so i can know what im doing. I thought the way im starting is the way most breeders started??? Didnt all the top breeders start out back yard breeding then bettered themselves and started breeding better dogs and learning along the way??? On some of those top breeders websites like wildside and camelot, mealer etc they dont offer any hip test and all that on their dogs when you buy a pup and they been breeding for years, all they offer is a health certificate.... I guess i need to revamp my whole blue print on how im going about this where do i need to start???? Are my pedigrees ok at least??? I aint breeding for color its just that all my dogs i bought are blue or from blue blood so i know thats what the pups are gonna be blue or some kinda of blue fawn etc.. If i start all over where do i need to begin. In havent bred none of my dogs yet because they are all too young wont have a planned breeding til early next year. i wanna get everything right before then. I NEED HELP!!!!! THanks for the comments Bahamutt99 its very appreciated. I need it

[ColbyDogs]

I was seriously hoping this thread was a joke but after viewing your website I can see you are serious. A 6 m/o puppy with a $500 stud fee ? GTFO , the dog at that age has done nothing to have proven its worth to be bred and could be hiding some genetic defects that cannot be seen at his age yet...and the game comment...not even going to get into that one.

I think you should cease your thoughts and plans on ruining this breed any further than you currently are, sounds harsh right ? Stick around and learn and you too one day will see where I am coming from. There are plenty of people already practicing the same piss poor breeding program that you are planning, the world does not need anymore BYB's assistance in the demise of the breed so please stop.

Honestly what do your dogs offer that should make people want to buy one ? What is that your dog has that I cannot find in the pages of the local want ads ? There should be something that makes your dogs stand out above and beyond what is currently available in todays world other than that your just waisting your time and producing future shelter dwellers.

Hopefully you can see the errors in your way and will accually want to correct them, if not then the breed will only continue to suffer. So your either going to be part of the solution or continue to stay on the path you are currently on and stay part of the problem.

[ABK]

DaGreatest: Your dogs don't look that scatterbred to me. Chaos blood & Hughzees blood is the same. Chaos kennels is owned by Ricky & Frank Hughes a.k.a. the Hughzees brothers. Winegarner blood is from Ed Winegarner of Bootleg Kennels, so Winegarner & Bootleg is the same as well. And they both have a Watchdog base via WD's Blu Glory.

As for your 100% Watchdog pup, I find that hard to swallow since the originator of the WD line has been out of APBTs for years & 99.99% of the WD stuff out there is crossed now.

If you want to start a respectable line the best thing you can do right now is cool your heels. Sit back, live, learn & try to get some titles. But breeding? Not now.

You see, the Hughzees/Chaos lines are known for carrying some health defects. The ones I know of are skin allergies, oral defects & heart defects. And because of the body styles of these dogs it will also be good to have the hips & elbows OFA'd. So at the least you're going to need cardio, hips & elbows clear before you think about breeding anything & all of that cannot be accomplished until the dog is at least 2 years of age.

Cancer also runs heavily in the WD line overall. Chaos Knls dog WD's Beelezebub had to be PTS from it at the age of 7 & my double bred granddaughter of WD's Blu Glory had to be put down from it at the age of 6 for the same reason. And those are only 2 example. I know of more.

So my advice to you is sit back, wait to see if you've got even got something worth breeding. If you breed in a rush & end up putting out some sickly dogs, your reputation may never recover. But if you take some time, settle down, learn & breed some nice dogs you may be on your way to making a name for yourself.

P.S. Please take down the ad advertising a puppy at stud. You'll do nothing but make a laughing stock out of yourself.

P.S.S. A CKC dog CAN be registered into the ADBA, but you have to have a 4 generation certified pedigree that goes back to ADBA dogs.

Good luck!

[irishpit]

it says on your site hercules should top 100 lbs easily? why would you want to breed a dog so badly out of standard? these dogs should never be that heavy im hoping he doesnt go anywhere near that weight for your sake and your reputation good luck

[DaGreatestPits]

Ok keep the comments coming i need it. Anything else....

[DaGreatestPits]

Thanks for the advice everyne.....

[DaGreatestPits]

The reason i got herc is because i wanted a weight pull dog. I seent weight pull dogs in the 100's so why me having a dog that big a problem????? I seen plenty of respected weight pull dog in the 100lbs's. And i only have a stud fee on hercules because like i said i did that when i first got him because i was impressed on his size. That been posted since he was 16weeks why comment on something i already explained. He is not ready for stud and he will not be studded until i get him to winning some weight pulls if he even wins any. I will try though.I have seen worst people trying to run keenels than me so PLEASE dont make it seem like in the WORST!!!! At least i came to a forum with people that know about the breed to find out what im doing wrong......

[depitlady]

DaGreastestPits-- First OFF WELCOME to the Forum:) I've only been a member for a short time now.. Use to be a member of the old gamedog.com board years ago.. There are alot of experienced doggers here.. lesson to them...

Enjoy your dog and love them and learn... get all the info you can on the bloodlines you have,, learn the history and trace it back as far as you can.. Do your our pedigree with foot notes.. Then, jump on the discussion form about the lines and spill all your knowledge...

Breeding good dogs may take generations.. whining out bad traits. going through dog after dog finding one that proves himself. .. MAN WHAT A HEADACHE... Some people look at these dogs as fast money... but the only thing comes out of that are dogs that are neglected and unwanted.. :(

JMO,,, Take your time and be picky..

[DaGreatestPits]

Ok i guess i need to start over. I thought i was starting off like verybody else i guess not......Thanks for the advice everyone.

[depitlady]

You're OK,,, you most likely just started with a topic that everyone took as a question...

I did the same,, just to get other opinions, although,
I already had my own:D

Don't let this stop you from, posting.

Going back to your ?? I had an OFRN ( wilder and hemphill ) back in the pedigree and wanted to tighten the ped up some, without crossing to much.. I looked the net over for someone whom had the same lines and well quality dogs, to possible cross with... I found Norrod lines but never got a chance to do the breed because of a kennel split..

Good luck and keepem coming:)

[DaGreatestPits]

Im not gonna let nobody stop me from doing what i wanna do because i know everybody gonna have an opinion anyway im just gonna try to think it through a little more thats all. Im gonna do what i wanna do no matter what anybody says. My dogs my yard my breedings...

[marshall619]

"My dogs my yard my breedings..."

Understandable, but please do your homework, be patient, learn more about the breed, & read, read, read...;)

Mel

[depitlady]

ooooooooK Made your point.

[Crystal621]

Why do you want to breed? Why do you want so badly to be a "breeder"? I'm not trying to sound harsh, just a simple question.

I have 5 dogs, 2 are pets, and the other 3 under a year still...IMO I have some good dogs...I have no aspiration of breeding any of them, ever. I show/pull my dogs, and even when they obtain titles, it's not going to make me want to breed them. I just don't understand people's mindsets on wanting to breed just any two dogs and establish a bloodline. Is it for money, fame, respect? I just don't get it. Breeding takes time and well thought out goals, something I'd rather leave to the ones that know what they're doing.

[rhumble]

i advice lots of reading (about genetics and breeding) before asking questions.
the more you learn the better you will do (at least i hope so)

[chinasmom]

Crystal621.. My only reasoning for the OP to want to breed is the same reason most uninformed, unqualified, unrealistic people who think they know the breed want to. $$$ I may be wrong, but their determination on doing this with no regard to what ppl who are educated about the breed have told them, leads me to think this. I really wish this person would take the time to read and learn before putting more unwanted blue dogs in pounds and shelters. One litter has already been put out, but that wasn't his fault. If he didn't know enough to tell his GF that males and females shouldn't be around each other when she is in heat, then in my opinion, he doesn't know enough to be breeding. They should have been contained and that would not have happened.

"My dogs my yard my breedings..."

This remark says you are going to do what you want anyway, so why did you come here to ask advice? You have been told what you should do. It wasn't what you wanted to hear I guess....That's just MO

[rallyracer]

Im not gonna let nobody stop me from doing what i wanna do....Im gonna do what i wanna do no matter what anybody says. My dogs my yard my breedings...

exactly what this breed needs right now:rolleyes:

and you speak of 100# wp dogs...have you been to many wp's? its generally the ~small~ dogs that are the winners ( high 30's-low 50# dogs)

[ColbyDogs]

My dogs my yard my breedings...

"My dogs, yard & breeding"......that is an extremely selfish response, shows how little respect you have for the breed.

You left out one really important aspect, although it might be "your" dogs "your" yard and "your" breeding plan however collectively it is OUR breed that your selling down the river and those of us who truely respect the breed will voice our opinions and call you out for the BYB your turning out to be with your breeding program.

Do I think your the worst one out there with plans of being another BYB ? Yea I suppose I do, your no different than the next guy cashing in on the breeds popularity to line your pockets so to a degree your on that same level so that makes you equally as bad in my books.

I am glad that you stumbled apon Game-dogs.com there is alot of knowledge here and you my friend are in need of an education about what the breed is really all about, a first step..... these dogs are not meant to be 100+ lbs.

Sorry if my posts are not to your liking I am just being blunt and honest....no one in the APBT world will give you any respect until you have earned it and sadly enough your headed down the wrong path. Bragging that you've bred your top 100lb stud might impress the clueless however here with the people of the REAL APBT world it will only get your laughed at and verbally abused.

Take the time and learn, hopefully you will eventually get it.

[ABK]

I My dogs my yard my breedings...

You are right. They're your dogs. It's your yard. They're your breedings. However ... (don't those always seem to pop up??) are you ready to take responsibility for YOUR dogs & YOUR creations?

Are you ready to deal with the angry puppy buyer who's pup YOU sold them got diagnosed with hip dysplasia (or elbow dysplasia, or heart disease, etc.) & they want a refund in full or they're taking out on your hide?

Are you ready to deal with a lawsuit b/c a puppy YOU sold someone bit a child?

Are you ready for yet another lawsuit b/c a puppy YOU sold someone attacked another animal?

Are you ready to go to JAIL & have all your dogs KILLED b/c YOU mistakenly sold to a dog fighter?

Are you ready to deal with the guilt b/c a dog YOU sold was responsible for BSL being passed in your area?

Honey, in this breed there are no little i's & big U's. We have to stick together. Do we own dogs as individuals? Sure. But as breed fanciers we are all in this thing together & the sooner you realize that, the better off we'll ALL be.

Oh & as a side note, as was mentioned previously, the big dogs are NOT the kings of the track. It's the little dogs who are usually better pull dogs. Bigger dogs put up bigger numbers, but small dogs almost always win MWPP, which is the true test of strength.

My dog, which is 47 lbs C.W. has pulled almost one ton the second time he ever pulled at the age of six! If he was a younger dog & we had a training facility we could use he'd have pulled way more! But an elder dog with no formal training pulled nearly one ton! That's the size of a small car! So the mid to small dogs DO get it done! I hope to be starting his 23 lb daughter in weight pull soon. So don't let those bandogge fanciers fool you. Bigger is not always better!

Here is a pic of my 47 lb male working the rails!

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/3/8/6/8/tigermfpull.jpg

[ABK]

BTW, I forgot to add - I could not answer your OP accurately since you did not post a website link or ped on your dogs. Going by the bloodlines you mentioned they did not sound scatter bred, but I would like to take a look if I could. I noticed you took down any links so PM me if you want.

Please do not expect any breeding advice, as IMO you're not quite ready for that yet, but as a former owner of a WD dog myself I would like to see what you plan to work with.

[bahamutt99]

ABK, there was a website posted earlier. The first few posts got edited. But if you google Da Greatest Pits, that's the first site that comes up.

[DaGreatestPits]

I dont mind the criticism like i said before i need it but i dont want disrespectful lectures. I didnt come here for that. I came here to find out if im doing this wrong and i found out that i am. But all that other bull is irelevent. Im a grown ass man so lectures and smart talk is not neccersary. Thats why us so call "newbiess" dont listens to yall old timers because yall like to talk down instead of helping. I need help and i admit this. Im not hear to take info. Im here to learn. I can get info from some where else this is not the only forum in the world. So thats to all the people who gave me good advice without the negativity. All the rest of you mutha fuckers can kiss my ass literally come buy one of my cheap no good mutts and i will gladly let you kiss it then.

[DaGreatestPits]

Thanks everyone that had good advice.

[RECOGN1ZED]

I dont mind the criticism like i said before i need it but i dont want disrespectful lectures. I didnt come here for that. I came here to find out if im doing this wrong and i found out that i am. But all that other bull is irelevent. Im a grown ass man so lectures and smart talk is not neccersary. Thats why us so call "newbiess" dont listens to yall old timers because yall like to talk down instead of helping. I need help and i admit this. Im not hear to take info. Im here to learn. I can get info from some where else this is not the only forum in the world. So thats to all the people who gave me good advice without the negativity. All the rest of you mutha fuckers can kiss my ass literally come buy one of my cheap no good mutts and i will gladly let you kiss it then.



:eek: LMFAO wow......Heres my advice, don't do it just yet bro please, wait a while longer....

[ABK]

Baha - Thanks for the tip Baha. ;)

DGP - To answer your question, you might as well start over. What you have is way to scatter bred to be tightened up. There are WAY more bloodlines in your dogs than Chaos/Hughzees & Bootleg/Winegarner. You've got a mish-mash of about everything. The only dog I saw who was even remotely family bred was Storm.

As for you being a "grown a.. man" you are going to get lectures when you - a "grown a.. man" - are doing immature & irresponsible things.

Studding a puppy = irresponsible.

Breeding a non-standard dog = irresponsible

Breeding a puppy = irresposible.

Breeding for color = irresponsible.

Breeding blue to blue = irresponsible.

Keeping a man-biting pit bull, using as a guard dog & bragging about it = irresponsible.

You have potential DGP. But you have to just sit back, live, learn & absorb as much knowledge as you can. It is obvious you have much learning to do. There is nothing wrong at all with that. We all had to start somewhere. I can tell you from first hand experience that it is far, far better to learn before hand instead of learning as you go. But I can assure you this - if you continue down the road you are on now, you won't amount to much. Just another blue puppy peddler, one among thousands. We don't want that & I'm sure you don't either.

Some folks here may seem harsh to you, but they do it b/c they love the breed & believe it or not, they may even care about YOU & don't want to see you make the same dumb mistakes they have made.

Just food for thought.

Oh & I forgot to ask - who called your dogs "cheap no good mutts?" I re-read this whole thread & no one has said that about your dogs. The only thing I recall is people telling you (rightly) that you're not ready to breed.

[DaGreatestPits]

Thanks ABK i will take your advice. I dont want to be a puppy peddler or a BYB thats why im trying to find out how to do it the right way. I aint in it for the money. THe amount of money i spend on my dogs every week and the price i sell the pups for i will be lucky to brake even and im ok with that. I love my dogs, i love dogs period especially pits. Thats why i wanna run a responsible breeding program and be part of the solution and not the problem. So are yall tell me all the GREAT dog men from back in the day didny start out like im starting until they learned?????? oh yeah and the reason i got harsh because some one from this thread went to my website and posted some mean stuff.

[ABK]

DGP - No, most old timers did NOT start out like you are. Most started out as yard boys on a dog man's yard. Sometimes that dog man was someone they knew in the neighborhood or it was a relative. The yard boy fed his dogs, watered them & scooped up poop, some times for years. In return, while he worked for the dog man, that dog man would teach his yard boy many things about the dogs & the dog game. When he was ready, he would take his apprentice to see some of his dogs work & after accompanying him to a few events if the dog man thought his yard boy was worthy, he would give him a pup of his own. Most puppies back then weren't bought, they were earned & they were only given after the dog man was assured that his yard boy was ready.

Nowadays it's not like that. Anyone can get a pit bull from any outlet. usually a fancier with little to no knowledge will go out & buy a dog they think is pretty & go from there. Then they have to learn from the school of hard knocks, which does not benefit either the fancier or the breed.

Since you do not have a mentor (or did not have a good one) I would recommend purchasing a few books or even just checking them out of the library if you must. The Complete Game Dog is a good one. Most any of the Stratton books are good ones. You won't find the Complete Game Dog in your library, but most do carry Stratton books. There are other good books as well you can find using the search feature on this site.

But you have already been told pretty much what you need to do to achieve your goal.

- Start out w/ good stock. This will mean spaying & neutering what you have now & finding good pet homes for them. The only one I'd keep Storm as she is nicely bred for a blue dog.

- Get some titles on the dogs you keep.

- Have them health tested if required (most blue lines will require it).

- Breed for yourself not money & when you do those breedings, make sure they will improve & not diminish the breed.

- Make sure your pups go to responsible homes on enforceable contracts.

And I apologize if someone from where posted some mean things. But do not take it personally. They do it out of love for the breed.

Oh & BTW, when the term "yard boy" is used, sometimes it was an older teen boy, but in some cases it is a young man. I have also heard the terms "yard help" or "yard hand" used too, but they all mean the same thing - an assistant to a dog man.

[DaGreatestPits]

Thanks ABK thats the best advice ive got so far. I will go get thsoe booksat im going to the ADBA show in texarkana on Oct 24th. My blue male already got 2 medals fron a show, Im not gonna spay what i got because i got faith in what i got. I dont want any of those old game fighting because that aint what i like. I like blue dogs and GAFF and Watchdog and cordeiro has the best dogs for what im looking to breed. Everybody has there own preference and little 40lb game dogs aint my preference. I like dogs in the 60lb to 80lb. I dont fight dogs so why would i want those little game dogs. Thanks ABK

[bahamutt99]

Fair enough, but do you respect the breed standard? If so, then you should know that you're breeding dogs that don't meet it. If you breed to get what you like versus what is laid out in the standard, expect to meet with resistance. On the other hand, I think the American Bully Kennel Club prefers the bigger dogs. But you'd have to call them American Bullies.

[ABK]

No problem DGP.

But I have to ask, if you have faith in what you have, why did you even ask your OQ? Why not just do your thing? It appears you won't take anyone's advice anyway. :(

But you have the right to like what you like & Zeus is a pretty dog. But I wouldn't go on his wins at the fun show in Tunica as a basis for breeding him. I was at that show. There were dogs there who were WAY better than Zeus. Not saying Zeus isn't a nice dog, I'm just saying there were other dogs who fit the standard much better & who were in much better shape.

You won't want to hear this, but the judge threw some of you blue bully folks a bone by placing some of your dogs even though there were better dogs in the ring. He wanted everyone to feel welcome so some dogs were placed who never should have been. Take Zeus to a real ADBA show where real dog men are judges. I doubt you will do as well.

And another ? for you. If "little 40 lb game dogs" aren't your preference why are you even in this breed? This breed IS "little 40 lb game dogs!" Anything else is an imitator!

A note of interest too - I have dogs that range in size from 23 lbs to 50 lbs. I use my dogs for weight pull, conformation, on leash obedience & even hog catching when I can. Where is it written if someone has a standard APBT it has to be a fighting dog??

Lastly, Baha is right. Most of your dogs will not fit the APBT standard. They will more fit the American Bully standard. Check out the ABKC. Maybe they, their fanciers & their dogs will be more to your liking.

Good luck.

[DaGreatestPits]

Im sorry if it seems that im not taking yor advice ABK i am like i said you gave me the best advice in this whole thread. The only part im not gonna do is spay all my dogs. But what i will do is wait til i show them to see what a judge thinks to make sure they are breeding worthy. I will do that much and if they dont make it in they show ring i will pull them. If they dont make it pulling then like you said spay them!!!!! I wanna get a professional opinions on them first before i just give up on my dogs. Its like having a child you will think your child is better than any one elses child because its yours and you created it. You not gonna let any ol body tell you your child is not worthy unless its somebody of importance and know what they are talking about. Not saying that yall dont but someone that right there looking at my dogs in person judging them. And MY DOGS ARE NOT BULLYS!!!! Are you seriuos!!! I HATE BULLYS!!!! THEY ARE FAKES AND IMPOSTER MY DOGS ARE FAR FROM BULLYS!!! My biggest dog right know is 65lbs full grown. My other dog Hercules will be about 80lbs maybe more but he will not look like a bully. WHY DO EVERY PITBULL THAT IS BIGGER THAN 50lbs considered a bully. Where watchdog dogs bullys???? Codeiro???? GafF???? Gaff kennels got the best looking dogs in the world right now and they are in the 60lbs or 70lbs range and they are far from bullys!! They even got a blue weight pull champion!!! Go see for yourself. MGK kennels got some 115lb dogs that not bullys and they own every weight pull they attend. Was Boogieman a bully??? And i do believe my Blue male was the best looking male at the Tunica show. ARe you serious he has they best conformation in any other males there. Almost everybody that seen my dog said he was beautiful and conformation correct to be a blue dog. You must havent looked at those pics. i will post some. I got faith that he will Champion out if i take him to enough ADBA shows. He does not have a bully frame at all. The judge knew my dog was the best thats why he won best male!!!!!!! Just let me have my glory. If it was your dog i wouldnt say that about yours if he won he won thats that he deserved it. But i appreciate the opinions keep them coming. I need all the advie i can get. So everyone in this forum thinks my dogs arent worthy???? Conformation or Nothing???? I wanna hear specifics on why they are not worthy???? i will post pics!!!! Just because they arent triple breed chinaman or inbreed boudreax makes them not worthy??? So do yall base worthyness on a bloodline??? If it aint the bloodline you like it aint worthy??? Is that how it works????? So if a scatter bred dog looks better than a straight boudreax dog you will like the boudreax dog better just because of the name???? I bought my dogs because of looks, personality, conformation, temperamnet. Forget all the bloodline stuff its just a name. I like some bloodlines because they carry certain looks but just for the name???Nahhhhh

[Iverson's Pits]

Have you tried Kagels ???

[DaGreatestPits]

whats kagels???

[Marty]

DaGreatestPits,

Read this...

http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29490

[Pit Bull Pride]

Have you tried Kagels ???

omg. lmfao. ANYhow..........


So ummm....

I think it is commendable that the OP came and asked for advice. BUT, when doing so, you have to be open to constructive critisism. Even when it's what you DON'T want to hear. Although, I have gotten the vibe that you pretty much are gonna do what you wanna do ANYway. Also,um...I have game dogs, but I don't fight my dogs but I am active in showing/pulling and even the occasional rescue. I also consider myself a breed advocate. I grew up in these dogs, and I RESPECT the breed for what it is, and where it came from, and why. I want to PRESERVE our breed. For that fighting comment.....um......though times have changed, we wouldn't HAVE our breed if it weren't for the history! People are just sick of seeing what is happening to our breed now. This breed is one of the most OVER-BRED breeds around. And it's almost a rarity anymore that people actually breed to the ORIGINAL standard. The breed is going to hell....and the people who are here for the breed....aren't going to bite our tongues when we see happenings that can potentially DAMAGE the breed further than it already is. Please, just be open to the LEGITIMATE KNOWLEDGE people are trying to give you. For the breed's sake.

[DaGreatestPits]

I can take criticism but my question was not answered just because my dogs arent triple inbred boudreax dogs or chinaman or redboy its not worthy???? Just because its blue it aint worthy????? I know you lod timers hate blue dogs that why i guess my dogs aint worthy right????? At least im not breeding bullys. Alot of my customers i had on my first litter first question was "you dont have those fighting dogs do you??? Or are they good with other dogs because i heard pitbulls are killers and hate other animals. My answer was NO!!!! You think if i had one ofd those Triple inbreed boudreax dogs yall worship i could sell that to those costumers with those concerns??? Hell naw because that dog would kill every other dog or cat in that house hold. Thats what yall dont understand not everybody want those game bred killers. Dont get me wrong my dogs are far from curs but they dont try to kill other dogs on site. The only way they get rowdy is if a stray dog or cat comes in my yard then they are in kill mode other than that they are family dogs. And thats what most people these days want. Thats why they passing those BSL law because yall trying to keep breeding those game bred dogs and the wrong people getting a hold to them and fighting them. If we get rid of all game bred dogs dog fighting would be gone and they wont ban pitbulls. Did you ever think of it that way????

[Pit Bull Pride]

Ummm....

Did you not get the memo on what the AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER was bred for? Why it was created?

If you or whoever is buying pups off of you is apalled at high prey drive or possible dog aggression.... CHOOSE ANOTHER BREED!

It is what it is! That's like wanting to buy a beagle, but not wanting it to track anything......

Or a lab, and not expecting it to swim.

And uh, my GAME BRED PIT BULLS are PHENOMINAL FAMILY dogs thank you very much!

It's called RESPONSIBLE OWNERSHIP.......

[Crystal621]

Oh lord. Where do I begin?

I can take criticism but my question was not answered just because my dogs arent triple inbred boudreax dogs or chinaman or redboy its not worthy????

No, that is not the reason why your dogs are not worthy. They are not worthy because they have not been proven to BE worthy. Take your dog to some POINT shows, then we'll talk. All my dogs have placed well at fun shows...doesn't mean they are going to be bred.

Just because its blue it aint worthy????? I know you lod timers hate blue dogs that why i guess my dogs aint worthy right?????

Hey, I OWN a BYB blue dog. She is 47lbs. She places well at FUN shows. She is not getting bred...she has a heart defect, skin problems, allergies, and temperament problems...She is NOT worthy of being bred, but she has proven to be worthy as a PET. And I think she looks pretty damn good for a BLUE dog.

At least im not breeding bullys.

Uhh...yeah ya are.

Alot of my customers i had on my first litter first question was "you dont have those fighting dogs do you??? Or are they good with other dogs because i heard pitbulls are killers and hate other animals.

I would never give, or sell an APBT to ANYONE who said "i heard pitbulls are killers and hate other animals"...that PROVES they have not done their research if they have to ask these questions.

My answer was NO!!!!You think if i had one ofd those Triple inbreed boudreax dogs yall worship i could sell that to those costumers with those concerns??? Hell naw because that dog would kill every other dog or cat in that house hold. Thats what yall dont understand not everybody want those game bred killers.

Excuse me, where did all this shit about Boudreaux dogs come in?? I happen to own one thank you very much. And he is far from a "game bred killer" He happens to live nicely with my cats and some of the other dogs, under supervision of course.

Those customers of yours with all those concerns have no business owning an APBT.

Dont get me wrong my dogs are far from curs but they dont try to kill other dogs on site.

Uhh..ya they are.

The only way they get rowdy is if a stray dog or cat comes in my yard then they are in kill mode other than that they are family dogs.

Are you saying our dogs aren't family dogs?

And thats what most people these days want. Thats why they passing those BSL law because yall trying to keep breeding those game bred dogs and the wrong people getting a hold to them and fighting them.

Uhh...wrong again. BSL is not being passed because of game bred dogs. BSL is being passed because of ignorant f*cks that overbreed these dogs and sell them to the highest bidder to then be either mistreated, neglected, untrained, improperly contained, (I could go on forever), and then the dog goes and bites someone and makes headlines. MY dogs will NEVER be in the news negatively. Dogs you produced may. So therefore, by chain of reaction...you are causing BSL.

If we get rid of all game bred dogs dog fighting would be gone and they wont ban pitbulls. Did you ever think of it that way????

Your an idiot.

[DaGreatestPits]

See there you go again with the damn name calling. I didnt call you a GAME DOG BREEDING BITCH now did i crystal???? So why i gotta be a idiot??? I ask for advice not what you think of me. Because if i tell you what i think of you you aint gon like it so quit with the fucking name calling BITCH!!!!! Please only people with advice and not insults please respond!!!

[DaGreatestPits]

You dont even know what a bully is. A bully is a mixed breed. My dogs dont even look like a mixed breed. Thats to show you dont know what your talking about. Please dont respond no more because your are like me dont have a clue. I dont have a clue and im trying to learn so i aint gon listen to some one else that doesnt have a clue.

[Pit Bull Pride]

See there you go again with the damn name calling. I didnt call you a GAME DOG BREEDING BITCH now did i crystal???? So why i gotta be a idiot??? I ask for advice not what you think of me. Because if i tell you what i think of you you aint gon like it so quit with the fucking name calling BITCH!!!!! Please only people with advice and not insults please respond!!!


I responded without 'insults', but you have no feedback on what I posted.

[DaGreatestPits]

You got a point pitbull pride......but people like pitbull for other reason than high prey drive and all that.

[Yard Boy]

First and foremost....You OBVIOUSLY come to the wrong board! I sooooo want to help you understand a little better but every time I get started, I delete my words as my intentions are not to scratch at your feelings and cull your dreams. I sooo want to make you see what your defensive cocky attitude has blinded you to. You have ALOT to learn bro, and the first step to making any big step in life is desire, dedication and determination. And without that...You are dead game! When it comes to this breed, your cocky defensive attitude seems to get in the way. I sense you to be a very intelligent person as I see your point of view at times, and then you crash and burn and leave me rubbing my head wondering what the hell went wrong. You are on point yet so far off sight. There is sooo much in your post that I want to discuss or cover, but when I attempt to address it, I have to realize that you aren't willing to learn and for that I am sorry!

You may think I am an arogant asshole I am sure...But before you assume, My reputation speaks for itself. I will do anything in MY power to see a brother or sister in these dogs excell.

My advice....Hit a few ADBA, AADR or UKC pointed events. Or if your in Fla, chill with you at any fun show from South to North Florida. I will glady, proudly shake your hand, and converse with you over dinner afterwards and HOPEFULLY understand you better.

You wanna chat blues...Hit me up, I own one! And...You wanna chat ABKC, we can do that too as I show my Boogieman blood boy in ABKC at a whopping 45 pounds OUTTA SUPPORT.

Yours In Show,

James *** N0 phone #s please Marty***

[Pit Bull Pride]

[quote=DaGreatestPits;294521]See there you go again with the damn name calling. I didnt call you a GAME DOG BREEDING BITCH now did i crystal????quote]


As a matter of fact, she DOESN'T BREED.....but she does things with ALL her dogs, they are well on their way to being titled.

BTW, one of our GAME BRED APBTS are CGC and TT certified. But yeah, they're "killers."

[DaGreatestPits]

You cant raise 5 really game bred males in a house hold. But the dogs i breed i bet i can.

[Pit Bull Pride]

You cant raise 5 really game bred males in a house hold. But the dogs i breed i bet i can.


Actually, we have MULTIPLE APBT's in our household, and they ALL live a harmonious life. We have our dogs under control.

[Crystal621]

See there you go again with the damn name calling. I didnt call you a GAME DOG BREEDING BITCH now did i crystal???? So why i gotta be a idiot??? I ask for advice not what you think of me. Because if i tell you what i think of you you aint gon like it so quit with the fucking name calling BITCH!!!!! Please only people with advice and not insults please respond!!!

Wow that's mature...

Listen, douce bag, I gave my advice already along with everyone else here, YOU chose NOT to listen. YOU don't want to face the fact that your dogs are NOT APBT, NOR are they worthy of being bred [yet, at least, always gotta leave room for hope].

And I don't give a SHIT what YOU think of me or my dogs...they can prove themselves, unlike yours.

Oh, and I can be a bitch, I haven't even begun.

[Crystal621]

You cant raise 5 really game bred males in a house hold. But the dogs i breed i bet i can.


I raise 5 dogs in one house...you know how?

'Cuz I know what the f*ck I'm doing!

[DaGreatestPits]

But when i make a good point nobody responds because they know im right but when i said something i guess they think is stupid in their eyes they respond with insults. You make good sense yard boy thats the kinda response i need not name calling. So where am i "crashing and burning" at???? Everybody is saying my dogs are too big and they are bullys??? They are far from bullys. Please help me understand why they are considered bullys???? Im about to post a pic.

[DaGreatestPits]

I am listening. But you are using insults. I never said i aint listening. Just because im arguing dont mean im not listening. Im listening to everything that yall post and i appreciate it i just dont need the insults. And i just want my questions answered???? Just because my dogs weigh a little more makes them bullys????? Like i said before GAFF kennes the best dogs i ever seen and there dogs are in the 60's and 70's but they are not bullys and they got they titles to prove it. MGK's boogieman is well over 100lbs is he a bully??? There dogs are registered with the ADBA

[Pit Bull Pride]

I can't judge your dogs or give an educated opinion on them because I haven't even seen a photo or ped on them. My main concern lies with the breeding practices.

[Crystal621]

Krys, Google Da Greatest Pits

[Yard Boy]

Ummmm....Now you have me really lost! A BULLY is a mixed breed now?

Can I shed a lil light on a small minute matter here? A bully was simply used to describe a dog/bitch that was/is conformationally correct. Just a beefier version of what the standard calls for. Now lets fast forward this bullydom....We are now experiencing a FAD. A point where people who think they are making this huge improvement to the breed by breeding excessive overdone garbage and calling it game/terrier/a working dog. People are out to make a buck by boasting how big their dogs heads and chest are...Yet you NEVER hear one boast how CONFORMATIONALLY CORRECT they are.

This is a working breed. Can a dog be 100 pounds and still work? Yes, by all means, BUT the STANDARD says that THIS breed should only be displayed at the standard it was written to. And our desire dedication and determination in this as a Breeder should be to display that STANDARD to the best of our abilities.

Now....Let me let ya in on a lil secret.....I did a breeding. Produced nice terriers. That just so happen to be quite BULLY. And they are doing fine awesome damage in the ring of show! So YES one can have a bully dog and excell....BUT CONFORMATION has to be met! Easty westy, brochcociphiliac, sway backed, overdone, drooling, gasping for air, bow legged, cow hocked, merle, kink tailed, hound earred mutations are NOT the route. Whether you use a blue or a Boudreaux dog.

Wanna see a conformationally correct blue bitch that despite her color meets the standard of ADBA? Awesome dog! Loves people, but will smack a dog/hog/animal in the head quicker than the IRS takes Child Support payments out ya check!

[DaGreatestPits]

<a href="http://s245.photobucket.com/albums/gg52/Dagreatest1984/?action=view&current=m_e3295af6a38113abe518485446444052.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg52/Dagreatest1984/m_e3295af6a38113abe518485446444052.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[DaGreatestPits]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg52/Dagreatest1984/l_851e51ca31384ca8b551e14f38360f-3.jpg

[Yard Boy]

Post a pic....But let me warn you bro...I give my honest opinion!

[DaGreatestPits]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg52/Dagreatest1984/m_e3295af6a38113abe518485446444052.jpg

[DaGreatestPits]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg52/Dagreatest1984/l_e3295af6a38113abe5184854464440-1.jpg

[DaGreatestPits]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg52/Dagreatest1984/l_649bb76832528be8870f3ffbde949f3e.jpg

[DaGreatestPits]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg52/Dagreatest1984/l_728da38e4fac83248ac51d948e8070e8.jpg

[DaGreatestPits]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg52/Dagreatest1984/m_8f355162a1fe0773730cb7733e94b6a2.jpg

[DaGreatestPits]

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg52/Dagreatest1984/l_33cd1ba59ceefee86fdf5160eaa71934.jpg

[Pit Bull Pride]

I just checked out your site. Please, just soak in the constructive critisizm you have recieved and take a second thought. I noticed breedings that have already gone down, and planned ones with pups that haven't even hit a first heat yet. None even titled. I know you said you came here to learn, and I just hope you are doing so.

[DaGreatestPits]

I wanna see the blue dog you are talking about Pitbull pride....

[DaGreatestPits]

Ok pitbull pride what do you honestly think about the dogs!!! Show ring material or Not???

[Pit Bull Pride]

Here's Sarge, the dog he is speaking of: all 44 lbs of her.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/pitbullpride/Sarge.jpg

[DaGreatestPits]

Im am like i said before i do stuff ahead of time. Some of those dogs havent even came in first heat. I will take them down so people dont think im breeding my dogs to early....

[DaGreatestPits]

Damn.....ok that a really good looking blue dogs. If you put her in the ring with my blue stud i dont see the difference pitbull pride did you see my pictures??? the blue stud is the one im banking on for the shows the rest srent ready yet...

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg52/Dagreatest1984/l_e3295af6a38113abe5184854464440-1.jpg

[Pit Bull Pride]

Damn.....ok that a really good looking blue dogs. If you put her in the ring with my blue stud i dont see the difference pitbull pride did you see my pictures??? the blue stud is the one im banking on for the shows the rest srent ready yet...

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg52/Dagreatest1984/l_e3295af6a38113abe5184854464440-1.jpg

Well, James is the show veteran, lol, he's the one that taught me what I know. Could just be the pic and the angle, but, he MAY be a lil straight-stifled....like I said, pics at odd angles are hard to judge....decieving at times....take him to some ADBA point shows....get him in shape....see how he does. He is on the bigger side, which will realistically make it harder to compete against the competition. You said he likes to pull? Work on that, keep goin with that....

Here's a side view of Sarge.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/pitbullpride/100_2001.jpg

[Crystal621]

The biggest problem with your breeding program is that you are breeding for color and size.

When you do that, you overlook structure, temperament, health, and so on.

The only way to know for sure how your dog(s) will do in a show, is to go...the worst that can happen is they don't place.

[Yard Boy]

All of these pics...Are they the same ones that are on your web site?

I am browsing now....And to be honest with you. Take away the color blue, just to look at your dogs I would say that you have some good lookers. BUT I can not make a sound statement without the dogs stacked, or movement. BUT...I will say that you would do much better in UKC or ABKC than you would in ADBA. NOT to discourage you from trying tho!! (smile)

As far as how material or not goes....You have to stack them up in a sanctioned event and test the waters. (smile)

Them pics you have up bro...In all politeness. They suck IF you are trying to show potential buyers what you have. Practice "stacking" your dogs, learn how to use the lighting to get awesome shots that depict the work you have invested. I KNOW how hard it is to get awesome pics! We shoot EVERY DAMN DAY looking for a great pic! (lol)

That pic is referred to as a 3/4 shot! Thanks Pit Bull Pride!!

Take a mental pic of all the others you see posted of those who show...THAT is what you need to try to capture.

Breathe deep brother! Try all over....Learn from your mistakes and move on.

Your web site.....Doesn't look so good on your behalf bro! Plan your breedings by all means, but don't be blind. Seek advice listen and crave for the knowledge. What you feel is the shit on your yard today...You will forget about 6 months down the road when you run into that dog/bitch that makes you say WOW I want that in my offspring. You need clean lines to produce clean offspring. Your offspring will speak for themselves, which in turn will lead people to you for what you have IF it is worth having. Your clients are your advertisement and should be treated with the upmost respect...IMAGE IS EVERYTHING!

You need to develope a plan! Blueprint your goals...And then....Cull and cull harder!

[DaGreatestPits]

Im not breeding for color i like blue dogs so thats what i purchased and thats what color most of the pups will be in that results of that. I also got a red fawn and a blonde fawn so not all are blue. Im also nor breeding for size. Two of my females will ony hit about 50lbs at the highest especiall the 70% watchdog 30% wingarner pup.So im asking opinion from everybody do my dogs look good enough to yall. Dont hold back now the pics are up now is the time to criticize. Someone else told me that about the straight leggednish. WOuld that make a dramastic difference in him winning a show or not????

[Yard Boy]

WOWWWWW....Nice improvement! More civilized! (lol)

My girl next to your male in the ring...Who knows!!?? (lol) However to look at a pic and say that....Who really knows! But...In show, this PR UKC bitch....She runs up on some fine ADBA standard dogs and places. Granted it's fun shows as she isn't ADBA reg'd (yet!). But...The thing that get's her placed...MOVEMENT. That bitch floats like a dream, and she is height to weight proportionate. Take away her color, you have a un-conditioned ADBA bitch. (smile)

I'm NOT knockin your dogs bro! Just saying BETTER PICS get better results!

Can I ask a question here? Krys' and Crys?

[Pit Bull Pride]

Im not breeding for color i like blue dogs so thats what i purchased and thats what color most of the pups will be in that results of that. I also got a red fawn and a blonde fawn so not all are blue. Im also nor breeding for size. Two of my females will ony hit about 50lbs at the highest especiall the 70% watchdog 30% wingarner pup.So im asking opinion from everybody do my dogs look good enough to yall. Dont hold back now the pics are up now is the time to criticize. Someone else told me that about the straight leggednish. WOuld that make a dramastic difference in him winning a show or not????


If he is straight-stifled, yes it will count against him, no matter what registry you show him under. Have you checked out the ADBA website? They actually have a diagram of conformation, you should check it out and study it. It is helpful as a learning guide.

[Yard Boy]

IF the Judge is juding your dog to the standard not to whatever garbage may be in the ring...YES. Straight stifles will hurt you to a degree. You have to look at angulation as a engine. No gas, no run! Your dogs has a form and a function. Without the one you wil NOT have the other.

[DaGreatestPits]

Thanks yard boy thats what i needed. I been arguing for 2days now for a comment like that. Im not a good photographer at all i try to catch them i natural stances because i want buyers to see how they look all the time not just how they look when they stack but i will work on stacking. THats why i have faith in what i got no matter the bloodlines because i know they look good. Not to be cocky but i get compliments all the time. I just need good breeding practices and knowlege and im getting that here thats why i came. I wanna do better. I wanna be the Best or one of the best one day so i will change or do whatever it takes to get there.

[DaGreatestPits]

Thats understandable yard boy Thanks.

[DaGreatestPits]

Where have you been the past 2 days because these are the answer i need. Honesty without insults and negativity

[DaGreatestPits]

So would that straight leggednish be pasted down if i bred him???

[DaGreatestPits]

Ok since i guess i can say i have some good or decent looking dogs to start with whats the first change i need to make ASAP in my breeding program???

[DaGreatestPits]

I didnt notice the straight leegednish. TO me he stands like every other dog i see on yalls profile pics but im not a expert so i guess i wouldnt catch it.

[DaGreatestPits]

I dont like UKC shows because to many bullys be there and i would feel outta place just like when i went to a ABKC show in memephis in june. I got some compliments on my stud but he was damn near the only dog there even close to conformation size!!!

[Yard Boy]

With THAT attitude, you will recieve plenty of guidance here! Despite the color you decide to feed or the lines you run in your yard. YOU are the one that needs to be content! BUT...Do us ALL a favor and DO NOT breed for color, or size. When you do...You will suddenly see that your money has been wasted, and your reputation for faulty dogs has sky rocketed. You love this breed...Breed to the standard! You love the breed, step up to the plate and aim to do your part in fighting BSL. You can have your blues!! (lol) Hell I have one!!! (lmao)

Bro...Slow and steady! You feel like your getting discouraged or aggravated...Breathe deep and remind yourself.....NOT TO BE SO DEFENSIVE ! This breed is under alot of fucked up (can I say that here????) pressure! And the way your post have been going...You are just another asshole to some.

I see potential bro! BUT...You have to be open to critisizim and understand that either the remarks you recieved are outta passion for the breed or someone really wants to help you. We can't change everyones knowledge or lack of, but we can try. One brother or sister in dogs at a time!

You know....IF I were you....I would make a SIMPLE apology to those you chatted with. Words were exchanged as a re-action to your actions. IMAGE is everything bro! You need to represent the image you want people to remember you by. And hopefully, IF you are sincere, it will show....Thru your dogs!

I'm off to bed now brother! But marinate on that lil advice I suggested.

We all need advice and guidance once in a while!

[DaGreatestPits]

Thanks yard boy!!!

[Yard Boy]

So would that straight leggednish be pasted down if i bred him???

Very possible! Those are traits you do not want. You want that just right touch. Feel me? Not toooo much, not tooooo little. (smile) There's your next research topic.

[Crystal621]

Your dogs will do better in UKC, but if you want give ADBA/AADR a shot! You will see some nice APBTs out there that's for sure.

Here's a good site on standards for all the registries, except ABKC.
apbtconformation.com

Here's one of my dogs, Havoc, bred by Yard Boy

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g12/innocence621/013-4.jpg

He may be bigger than his competition in the AADR/ADBA but he still places above them, because he has better structure...it's true, I heard the judge lol.

And when he goes to a UKC show (now this is just me assuming lol) he will blow the competition outta the water!

Oh, and here's my blue dog.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g12/innocence621/201.jpg

[Yard Boy]

Like I said bro....Looking at the pics I have seen on your site...It's hard to tell anything really. (smile) I'm NO expert either! (lmao) BUT...I have yet to NOT place a dog I handle. You learn the dogs strong points and weak...Then capitolize!

BUT to look at a pic and say THIS is PERFECT...There's no such a shot IN MY OPINION! As I want to see a dog move!! It may look great standing in a stck, but it may also move allof like a busted hoopty with 2 flats when it walks. Follow me now? (lol)

Your situation with ABKC, UKC....We'll discuss that tommorrow. I gott hit the sack!

My pleasure!!!!

[DaGreatestPits]

I love this breed thats why i won and wanna brred them. I wanna be part of the good people see when there eyes are on this breed. I wanna be looked at as a responsible Pit Bull breeding. Some that when the Pit bull haers talk about the breed someone can say well DGP breeds some nice American Pitbull and does a fine job of giving the breed a better name. I sold about 12 or 13 pups earlier this year and i keep in contact with about 4 or 5 of those customers and they are satisfied to the fulliest. I was proud my first litter did good. Make alot of famiies happy. A older lady bought one from me and she email me or call me once a week telling me how happy she is and how he is doing. She has three other furry dogs and he gets along with them. Another family bought onr for there son and they said its there son best friend now. Thats the type of stuff that makes my wanna breed because im determine and i like to best the best at everything i do. I try to help resuces out and help with the breed but some just talk about because they see me as part of the problem. I aint gonna help someone that looks down on me. I told my customers if you ever feel you wanna take the pup or dog i sold you to the shelter please contact me i will take it back and find it a home. I only got about a 1/2 acre i cant take back every dog but i will take back what i can. I got phone number from my customers to use for references so i kinda feel im going in the right direction some what just need to work on something. I love my dogs and me & my girlfriend gets into big arguements if ny dogs dont look the same or just as happy when i left the huse when i get home. They are like my kids. I will do anything for them. i just need some guidance thats all.

[Yard Boy]

I should have NEVER let him go! Every time I see that boy I get a feeling in my ass that says I made a mistake!!!

I know he's in a fantabolous home, and wouldn't trade it IF I had the powers! That was my keeper as you already know! (teary eyed)

I can't say thank you enough for having him! When you are ready to UKC....I want to be there! I have a STRONG feeling he will CH out REALLY QUICK in UKC. He is such a happy medium.

I am sooo happy that you guys listend to my advice when you hit your first show! He hasn't let you down since!!!! ADVICE DGP.....Get to know Crystal....You'll be glad ya did!

[Crystal621]

You should keep in contact with every person who gets a pup from you.
You should also be able to take back and care for every single dog you put out there-that's responsible. If you don't have room, stop breeding until you get more room.
All my dogs that I have got from responsible breeders have kept updated on the dog and will take them back if the need be...no matter when it is.

[DaGreatestPits]

Im sorry crystal for the harsh words but im 24 and im one of the most respectable youngster you will ever met until prvoked then i go over board sometimes because i feel like if i dont disrespect you dont disrespect me. So i felt disrespected by the name calling. I needed advice not insults. I only used that "b" toward a woman a handful of times and alweays feel bad for it. But in everyday life now thats a different story i use it all the time lol. But towards a woman i feel bad every time i say it but that the first thing that comes to mind when i feel disrespected by women. i hardly get disrespected by women im usualyy a charmer lol but i gotta work on that. SORRY

[Crystal621]

I should have NEVER let him go! Every time I see that boy I get a feeling in my ass that says I made a mistake!!!

I know he's in a fantabolous home, and wouldn't trade it IF I had the powers! That was my keeper as you already know! (teary eyed)

I can't say thank you enough for having him! When you are ready to UKC....I want to be there! I have a STRONG feeling he will CH out REALLY QUICK in UKC. He is such a happy medium.

I am sooo happy that you guys listend to my advice when you hit your first show! He hasn't let you down since!!!! ADVICE DGP.....Get to know Crystal....You'll be glad ya did!

LMAO! He isn't that same ole puppy anymore is he?

I'll be taking him to the UKC show on the 19th...I wanted to do the 18th too but it's our pit bull awareness day and I have to be there...I'm in charge of the "meet the breed" booth...Gotta do my part! lol
If you can make it on the 19th that would be awesome...I don't know if he will stay quiet though lol.

[Crystal621]

Im sorry crystal for the harsh words but im 24 and im one of the most respectable youngster you will ever met until prvoked then i go over board sometimes because i feel like if i dont disrespect you dont disrespect me. So i felt disrespected by the name calling. I needed advice not insults. I only used that "b" toward a woman a handful of times and alweays feel bad for it. But in everyday life now thats a different story i use it all the time lol. But towards a woman i feel bad every time i say it but that the first thing that comes to mind when i feel disrespected by women. i hardly get disrespected by women im usualyy a charmer lol but i gotta work on that. SORRY

It's ok, I am a bitch LOL

We all start somewhere...I used to think pit bulls were huge dogs...since I've learned to love the littler guys. They have more heart than any dog I've met and will do any task put in front of them.

Oh, and I'm 22...nothing wrong with being young. I just read A LOT on these dogs...and LISTEN to those who are more knowledgable...it's amazing how much you can learn from just sittin' back.

[DaGreatestPits]

What do i have to do to get my ADBA dogs UKC registered??? I heard they gotta get inspected but i also heard you can send in a video....

[Yard Boy]

Crystal....I have a gift for "Havoc" !

It's NOT much! BUT....I think you will really like it, and hopefully he will follow his dads footsteps in UKC with it.

[Crystal621]

You have to apply for a single registration and after they are a year old, they have to come out and inspect the dog. That's the only way I know of...check the website.

[Crystal621]

Crystal....I have a gift for "Havoc" !

It's NOT much! BUT....I think you will really like it, and hopefully he will follow his dads footsteps in UKC with it.


Oooooo!!! What is it???!!

[Crystal621]

Off topic...but y'all got me up late! Now I'm out with the dogs and they're barking, probably waking up neighbors LOL

[DaGreatestPits]

How can i get all my ADBA dog UKC registered??? I heard they gotta be inspected then i heard you can send in a 20min video. It would be a hassle to take all my dogs to get inspected.

[DaGreatestPits]

So they will come to your house and inspect the dogs???

[Yard Boy]

I'm never gonna make it to bed...(sigh)

DGP....You have to wait till your ADBA dog is 12 months of age. Then make an appoitment to have it inspected. IF there is no inspector in your area, a xideo may be accepted. www.ukcdogs.com (http://www.ukcdogs.com)

Crystal...Where is the show on the 18 19? I may take Spinner out to get his last class win for his UKC CH and will show your boy in Bred By if you wish? Father against son for best males predicted????? (lol)

[Yard Boy]

No...You meet up and you give them your fees and a copy of the ped and 3 pics (front/side and rear).

Crys'.....A show lead for UKC. Just like Dads! (lol)

[DaGreatestPits]

Ok thanks yard boy i will go to there website. Do they come to uoi or do you go to them??? I know it has one in jackson, ms about 3 or 4hrs from me.

[Yard Boy]

Havoc is already UKC'd right?

[Crystal621]

I don't know...I heard something from a friend who wants to show their SBT..let me check.

[Yard Boy]

Contact them and see if they know of one closer. Sometimes NOT everyone is listed for whatever reason! (lol) I had to drive to South Fla 4 hours for mine! BUT...I also showed another in that area. Killed 2 birds with one stone.

[DaGreatestPits]

Meet up??? So i meet them at a random place with pictures & paper work and money and thats it???? I will call 2morrow. My blue male is almost 2yrs and my fawn will be a yr in december but the rest will be a little bit long should i wait til all are grown??? One my dogs just turned 7weeks lol thats a long way.

[Yard Boy]

Ohhhhh.....That show is right there by the Mid Fla APBTA shows. About 30 mins closer to you than Mid Fla!!! Around Lakeland!!!

[Crystal621]

Crys'.....A show lead for UKC. Just like Dads! (lol)


Oh! Yay! I don't have one yet, I procrastinate too much. lol

There's one on the 11th in Hollywood and the one on the 18th and 19th is in San Antonio (I think you told me about that one) But I don't know what all that crap means when you view the event lol. Damn UKC is so confusing.

[Yard Boy]

Meet up??? So i meet them at a random place with pictures & paper work and money and thats it???? I will call 2morrow. My blue male is almost 2yrs and my fawn will be a yr in december but the rest will be a little bit long should i wait til all are grown??? One my dogs just turned 7weeks lol thats a long way.

Pretty much! (lmao) They will look over your dog to make sure it fits the standard. And, upon recieving all the needed items, you give them the envelope with your money orders, pics and such...They sign yes or no and stuff the envelope and seal it in your presense and mail it themselves!

Then you wait to see if the judge signed ACCEPTED. (lol)

[DaGreatestPits]

Thanks for the info everyone. I gotta go clean out my dog pens something i was suppose to do at 10pm when i got off work. This forum is addictive....worst than myspace damn lol

[Yard Boy]

FLORIDA
MID FLORIDA DOG CLUB
HOLLYWOOD (O) CONF JS
Oct 11; S1 Betty Umberto-Wells JS GUARD SCENT SIGHT GUN NORTH HERD (except BSD) TERR COMP Entries 8:30-9:30 am Show 9:45 am
Oct 11; S2 Don Wells JS GUARD SCENT SIGHT GUN NORTH HERD (except BSD) TERR COMP Entries 8:30-9:30 am Show 9:45 am, or after S1 whichever is later
Oct 12; S1 Lorraine Tayeb JS GUARD SCENT SIGHT GUN NORTH HERD (except BSD) TERR COMP Entries 8:30-9:30 am Show 9:45 am
Oct 12; S2 Jeanne Heger JS GUARD SCENT SIGHT GUN NORTH HERD (except BSD) TERR COMP Entries 8:30-9:30 am Show 9:45 am, or after S1 whichever is later
DOS $25 (cash only); JS $15; PE $20 received by October 4, 2008
TY Park, Corner of Sheridan Street and Park Road (954) 985-1980; From North or South, I 95 to Exit 21 Sheridan Street, go West to Park Rd, go Right to park entrance, to stop sign, go right to Pavilion 1. From West, take I 75 to I 595 to I 95, go South to Exit 21 Sheridan Street, go West to Park Rd, go Right to park entrance, to stop sign, go right to Pavilion 1.
Chairperson: Rachael Kinsch (863) 531-0233
Event Secretary: Sherry Geiger, 1511 Clarendon Street Apt 1, Lake Placid FL 33852 (863) 531-0233 fran2626@earthlink.net (fran2626@earthlink.net) <!-- Column Change -->

FLORIDA
HURRICANE ALLEY AMERICAN HAIRLESS TERRIER ASSOCIATION
SAN ANTONIO (O) CONF JS TR
TEMPORARY LISTINGS AVAILABLE AT THIS EVENT
Oct 18; S1 Phyllis Lambert JS (GRP2) DH (GRP7) AHT AUST CAIRN CESKY PRT MT PAT RAT RUSS SCT SFT TFT; Michael Turner (backup Kathy Russell) TFLAT TSTEEP Entries 8-8:30 am Show 9 am Race 11 am or to follow CONF whichever is later
Oct 18; S2 Ronald Lambert JS (GRP2) DH (GRP7) AHT AUST CAIRN CESKY PRT MT PAT RAT RUSS SCT SFT TFT Entries 8-8:30 am Show 9:30 am
Oct 19; Theresa Werder JS (GRP2) DH (GRP7) AHT AUST CAIRN CESKY PRT MT PAT RAT RUSS SCT SFT TFT; Michael Turner (backup Kathy Russell) TFLAT TSTEEP Entries 8:15-8:45 am Show 9 am Race 11 am or to follow CONF whichever is later
DOS CONF $25; JS $7; DOS TR $15; Weekend DOS Special $45 1 CONF & TR same day, $60 2 CONF & TR same day; PE CONF $18; PE TR $10; Weekend PE Special $30 1 CONF & TR same day; $45 2 CONF & TR same day received by October 11, 2008
Pingel's, 31415 Pasco Road 33576; I-75 to SR 52 (exit 285). Go east on 52 (toward Dade City / San Antonio). Take first left, immediately past Flying J truck stop, on Pasco Rd. Go 2 1/2 miles, 31415 Pasco Rd - on left. www.haahta.com (http://www.haahta.com/)
Chairperson: Ryan Pingel
Event Secretary: Karyn Pingel, 31415 Pasco Road, San Antonio FL 33576 (813) 319-3652 wmk@ahts.net (wmk@ahts.net)

<!-- Column Change -->

[DaGreatestPits]

Do you get your money back if they aint accepted lol?? Its a reccession going on in these time....lol

[Yard Boy]

State Show is in
Name of Hosting Club (O...outside) (I...inside) event
JS (Junior Show/Junior Handler class for points)

The date is the show breeds and Judges. S1 S2 is show 1 judge and show 2 judge.

IF you go to the one in Hollywood...Betty Umburto/Don Wells...Will eat up Havoc! They like heavy terriers. They both always told me to add some weight on Spinner. So Havoc will be plenty for them! The other judges in Hollywood...Never heard of them!

Seffner....Will be a big turn out! Respected judges!!! Open win for anyone! Best dog wins!!!! No preference is styles.

[Yard Boy]

NO REFUNDS! (lmao)

[Crystal621]

Well he's about 47lbs now...but he shows a a lot of rib/rib muscle...you don't think that's too much for UKC?
We're also going to AADR Nationals, he will finally be old enough to WP. Double points in WP, hopefully all that training will pay off :)

[DaGreatestPits]

I like this forum its very resourceful. Is this a everday thing??? Do yall just me up and chat??? Certain time??? Certain thread???

[DaGreatestPits]

I thought AADR wasnt really respected because they have open regidtration like the CKC where you can register any dog??? Maybe its just down here in the south...

[Crystal621]

Sorry, I didn't mean A LOT of rib, but some...

[Crystal621]

Right now to register with the AADR you need a 3 (or 5 can't remember) generation pedigree...but after this year the books are closed, and the dog must be from a recognized registry or from AADR parents to be registered with the AADR.

[Yard Boy]

Spinner is NOW at 51 pounds! (lol) But he is sweet!

I doubt he will have a problem in UKC at his current weight...He fits his body! He is CONDITIONED. There is a difference in a starved dog and a worked dog! (lol) And "Spinner" has always been an upset for UKC as he always was shown as a TERRIER not the typical lards that are brought to the table.

He only needs 5 points! New UKC CH!!!!!!:)

[Crystal621]

I can't wait til my baby's daddy is a UKC Ch! Then GrCh should be nothing! Get that boy out there! LOL

The vet I was working for told me my dogs are starved, and that if anyone saw me on the streets they would call AC on me LOL...I tore him a new asshole! And then quit a few days later lol

[Yard Boy]

In my opinion....The registries are all about a dollar now. I PERSONALLY do not care as long as my papers say the dogs are who they are posed to be! (lol) I think that as long as there is a way to desiginate the bullies and such and deviate them from being listed as APBT when they OBVIOUSLY are not...I have no complaints. You know where I satnd there Crys! (lol)

I am goin to bed now! Ya'll got me up wayyy past my curfew!!! You know I'm old!!!

[Crystal621]

Yeah, I gotta be up again in 5 hours to take care of the dogs! Dammit.

[Yard Boy]

WOWWWWW!!!!!

What asshole said that!? You lookin for vet work? You got a contact in that area!! Jeremiah..Spinners daddy..Havocs grandad works for a vet there and can vouch for you!

[Yard Boy]

In 2.5 hours for me! Ready for work, feed and water then out dogs and outta here by 830!!!!

[Crystal621]

Jeremiah works for a vet??? LOL Sorry it's late.

Let me know about it tomorrow...don't know if I want to work right now...Allens in the Bahama's and the dogs (plus school) are full time. But I'll look in to it!

[DaGreatestPits]

I feel special all this for me lol. My first forum i opened up got all this attention>..i feel loved.....sighs....lol I learned alot thanks everyone good night. I will come up with something for 2morrow.

[Yard Boy]

I wasn't gonna try to GrCh him UKC...But I may considering ADBA seems to be dwendling away month to month. We went from 3 shows to 1 a friggin year!! That's why I got to doin UKC to begin with! And I love it! Especially when a terrier upsets the crowd!

[DaGreatestPits]

Terrier upsets the crowd???? That was over my head...

[Yard Boy]

Jeremiah Johnson Ready (Jeremiah) is Harrisons Hot Schott CGC TT (Spinner) daddy! (lol) The guy who owns him is a Vet Tech in your area! You want me to drop him a line for you? He'd love to see Havoc too!!!! Jeremiah needs 3 points ADBA to CH! So yer ass BETTER be in Bushnell!!!! We will CH Jeremiah in ADBA, try to CH Havoc and Spinner in UKC and add to Spinners 29 points ADBA by this years end!!!!!

[Crystal621]

I know! I'ma be puttin' all kinds of miles on my new car! I want to Ch Havoc out in all three registries...He's got 30 some points from the one weekend already. Plus superdog in UKC...poor boy LOL

[Yard Boy]

Yeah...That choc/rednose on Pit Bull Prides pic...That's my man!! He's ALWAYS the smallest dog in the building! You should see the looks we get when we show him in ABKC (lmao).

[DaGreatestPits]

Does he place in ABKC???

[Yard Boy]

later DGP

goodnight crys'!!!!!!

[Yard Boy]

One Jr Handler and a 3rd....lmao

ALL OUTTA PASSION for the sport bro!!

[Crystal621]

Night James, good talkin' to ya :)

[DaGreatestPits]

Bye everybody

[Crystal621]

Thanks for taking the time to listen DGP, maybe I'll see you in the show ring one day, have a good night. :)

[ColbyDogs]

See there you go again with the damn name calling. I didnt call you a GAME DOG BREEDING BITCH now did i crystal???? So why i gotta be a idiot??? I ask for advice not what you think of me. Because if i tell you what i think of you you aint gon like it so quit with the fucking name calling BITCH!!!!! Please only people with advice and not insults please respond!!!


If your E-feelings are hurt by being called an idiot then you need to grow thicker skin, and for the record with all the nonsense you have been spewing being called an idiot is pretty tame considering the names that you should be called.

Why I feel your dogs are not worthy you ask ? Its pretty simple really, you know nothing about the breed to even know what a real APBT is so how or why should I or anyone here take stock in the fact your dogs comes from a legit background ? If your really this clueless about the breed it wouldn't shock me if you aquired your dogs out of the local papers hooked by the ad that says " Big head rare Blues" for sale.

Crystal was spot on for calling you an idiot, you have been displaying that sinse your first post in this thread...to be honest I am suprised it took this long.

[DaGreatestPits]

Uhhhh conversation been done almost 6hrs ago colby dogs you are late buddy. I already got some good information.

[ABK]

Well, it looks like I missed quite a bit of action last night! lol.

DGP - I feel you when you say your dog is like a child & you don't want anyone talking bad about them. There is a name for that. It's called "kennel blindness." To you, your dog is the greatest & you're not going to believe anyone else's opinion if it doesn't jibe with yours. That's not good.

Exhibitors & breeders have to be objective & unbiased. It's hard to do when you or someone else is evaluating your dogs, but you must be. Many breeding programs have gone down the toilet b/c the owner had kennel blindness & couldn't accept the faults pointed out to them in their dogs.

Anyway, I'm sad you think I'm trying to take away your thunder concerning Zeus. But honey, I'm not trying to be mean. I talked to the judge. Trust me when I say that while Zeus is a pretty dog, he was in no way, shape or form the best dog in that ring that day. Like I said before, take him to a real ADBA points show with a real dog man judging. I bet my bottom dollar you won't do as well. At fun shows everyone is made to feel welcome & judges spread the ribbons around a bit more.

For example, I had an excellent looking brindle bitch I took to a fun show. She won only one of the several classes I entered her in. When I asked for a critique from the judge after the show (I always do this b/c as you said you want to get a "professional" opinion about your dog) he flat out told me she was a very good looking dog & that if it were a points show he'd have given her the blue in every class, but since it was a fun show he had to "spread the ribbons around so no one went home disappointed."

By looking at the dogs that Zeus went up against, I suspect that is what happened in your case. The ribbons were spread around & Zeus just happened to be a lucky recipient. You were at that show. You can't tell me there were dogs who got ribbons who never should have gotten them. Don't you remember that blue ticked Gotti dog who looked like a cropped English Bulldog? He got ribbon. Come on now!

Now don't get me wrong. I want to say again I think Zeus is a pretty dog. But don't be fooled. He not the best male in the ring that day.

As for his pull ribbon, that was legit. Pulling is pretty simple - dog vs. weight. No judging politics can interfere in pulling. So be proud of his accomplishment in that arena. But the show ribbon my friend was a gimmie. And I'm not trying to be mean by saying that, I'm just telling the truth.

IMO your dogs they do not fit the AmBully standard, but they do not fit the ADBA standard either. They are more suited to UKC. The UKC has adopted a more AmStaff like look while the ADBA has retained the original pit bull standard. Zeus may do well in UKC. I wouldn't hold my breath for ADBA. But try both. Whichever floats your boat. But as long as you compete & prove you've got worthy brood stock is what matters.

However I would recommend you get into a real sport as well b/c a bulldog is a multi-dimentional animal. Winning in the show ring shouldn't be the sole criteria for judging breeding stock. These dogs have to have heart & to have heart they have to have a challenge to oyercome, which running around a show ring will not give them.

Finally, do not forget about health testing. The lines you have chosen (to include GAFF) are riddled w/ health defects. This is b/c of the type of body shapes the dogs have & the fact that they are many generations removed from working dogs. So I'd say a trip to the vet for some X-rays to send to OFA as well as a cardio test are in order. Also, since you seem to insist on breeding blue x blue, you might want to know what CDA is as well b/c you might have a run-in with it eventually.

As for your dogs' temperaments, don't let them fool you. They still come from a fighting background & they can still turn on & fight at any time. You see I made the same mistakes you are making myself about 10 years ago. Yeah, that's right. I said it. Bet you thought I was just some hater talking out my arse didn't you? Nope. Been there, done that & trying to help you from doing the same. I just hope you take the advice given you & don't learn the hard way.

Anyway ... I had big Watchdog bred dogs. I raised them all together & trained them together, the whole 9 yards. And when they turned 2 years old guess what??? They all wanted to kill each other! Heck, my fight craziest dog was a double bred daughter of Persinger's Ginger, a full sister to Persinger's Molly Bee (if you know your peds you should know those names)!

Your problem may not be as severe since the blood has been watered down a lot since then, but it CAN happen. Remember, it's not a matter of IF a pit bull will fight, but WHEN. And as I had to find out the hard way it isn't always those awful, evil Boudreaux & Chinaman dogs who are fighters!

In fact yet another dog who graces your pedigrees Noble's Blaze of Glory got booted out of the UKC for fighting at a dog show! His son Turpin's Blu Trouble is said not to be very dog friendly as is said about many of his offspring (again you should know those names if you know your peds)! So you might want to know what you have on your own yard before telling your buyers that the pups they get from you are going to get along with little fluffy foo-foo!

Which brings up another issue - if your buyers are wanting a dog who is not animal aggressive, you should not be selling to them. You should be directing them to another breed. While some pit bulls may not fight, those are the minority. The overwhelming majority of pit bulls WILL fight at some point in their lives & if a person can't handle that, they don't need a pit bull. These dogs needs to be kept with the utmost care & they aren't for everyone.

Furthermore, I would like to address your misconceptions about game dogs. A lot of the dogs who were around you at the Tunica show were game bred dogs. You didn't see any of them trying to eat anyone did you? You didn't even see any dogs who were out of control. They were all well-bred well-mannered dogs.

And lastly I would like to treat you to a pic of my evil, blood-thristy BOUDREAUX bitch Smokey. She is shown below sharing her blanket with our house cat, Pookie. She was cuddled right next to him but sat up when she heard me move close to them to take the picture. Awful, vicious killer dog isn't she? Darn those Boudreaux dogs!! lol. Oh & while I'm at it, maybe I'll scan ya a pic of my Zebo dog's CGC he just got. Evil, evil dogs! :p

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1090/dsc00931zb2.jpg

[DaGreatestPits]

LOL ok ABK that was some good advice. I soaked all that up. I guess since everyone that sees zeus thinks he is one of the best looking blues they ever seen and i take it to heart but can you blame me??? It never fails everytime i walk him or take him somewhere he get all kiind of compliments. It may not be professional compliment but its potential customer comments. And they are the ones that buy the pups so i listen to what they have to say. I been offered almost double what i payed for him from a lady that owns a funeral home and i turned it down. So do i need not to listen to what potential customers say and go solely on what a judge says???? The judge aint buying my pups???? But i know the judge vote count in the ring but other than than does it mean anything????? And yeah i remember that Gotti dog there he was awful. Zeus is not even close to looking like that. But im working on his weight pulling now he likes to pose in the harness alot like he is at a photo shoot. And i do need to study my pedigree i really mostly study the first 4 generations i might need to study all 7 generations.....Thanks again

[ABK]

No problem.

And sweetie, go by what the judge says NOT by what JQP on the street says. The judge knows the standard, JQP usually doesn't. Plus, remember this - who thinks dogs like that Gotti dog looks good? JQP! Ask any schmoe on the street & 99.99% of them will think THAT was a great looking dog too! :eek:

[DaGreatestPits]

you are right... i argue all the time with people that think those gotti dogs look good. I feel like my dogs are in the middle. They have somewhat the game dog frame just 10 to 20lbs heavier and thats what i like not to big but not to small. Like i said before to me GAFF kennels has the best looking dog in the world in my eyes right now just not the best price tag. There dog are around 50 to 70lbs and look great. SOme of there dog can do go in a ADBA show ring. SOme not all

[rallyracer]

It may not be professional compliment but its potential customer comments. And they are the ones that buy the pups so i listen to what they have to say. I been offered almost double what i payed for him from a lady that owns a funeral home and i turned it down. So do i need not to listen to what potential customers say and go solely on what a judge says???? The judge aint buying my pups???? But i know the judge vote count in the ring but other than than does it mean anything?????


i dont think its been covered yet- but just what is your reasoning for breeding?
these are not cars, handbags, or laundry detergents, you should not have to be pitching your dogs to potential customers.
and from the sounds of it- your customers are pretty flakey by their logic. what if the dog doesnt get along w/ fluffy the kitty? yup- just another dog in the shelter system. are you prepared to take back every dog you breed?
too many people get hung up w/ having a "kennel". gotta have a flashy website, gotta have the myspace, its more about image/rep/$$$ than the dogs themselves

[WoodsEdge]

LOL ok ABK that was some good advice. I soaked all that up. I guess since everyone that sees zeus thinks he is one of the best looking blues they ever seen and i take it to heart but can you blame me??? It never fails everytime i walk him or take him somewhere he get all kiind of compliments. It may not be professional compliment but its potential customer comments. And they are the ones that buy the pups so i listen to what they have to say. I been offered almost double what i payed for him from a lady that owns a funeral home and i turned it down. So do i need not to listen to what potential customers say and go solely on what a judge says???? The judge aint buying my pups???? But i know the judge vote count in the ring but other than than does it mean anything????? And yeah i remember that Gotti dog there he was awful. Zeus is not even close to looking like that. But im working on his weight pulling now he likes to pose in the harness alot like he is at a photo shoot. And i do need to study my pedigree i really mostly study the first 4 generations i might need to study all 7 generations.....Thanks again

Ok, all you people that have been trying to help this guy, does this not give you a clue? He's a BACK YARD BREEDER. Look at his web site , it's screeming BYB. Read his posts, he doesn't give a damn about the breed, he just wants to impress his potential customers. He may love his dogs but he doesn't want to preserve the breed, he wants to sell dogs. Read his post above, Quote "The judge ain't buying my pups". He doesn't give a damn about the standard but what people will buy. He's just picking your brain so he can impress his "potiental customers" with his knowledge.
DaGreatest- a reputable breeder doesn't have to advertise, his reputation is enough, he has a waiting list before the breeding is done.

[ROSE]

I was always told that,when it get to where you can't tell a fellow nothing.YOU DO JUST THAT.tell them nothing.

[Pit Bull Pride]

Just even generally speaking, as I sit back and watch and read, I wish that before people decide to obtain the title of a 'breeder' ..... that they would THOROUGHLY educate themselves on the breed of choice, BACK to it's origin (this includes breed purpose, and conformation standards). Breeding programs should be to improve the breed, not just beacuse you 'like' the breed per se'. What you are breeding should be STELLAR specimens of the breed, not just 'pretty' in your eyes, or in the eyes of people with green paper in their hands. If you deep down genuinley CARE for this breed, you would think TWICE before breeding so freely, as you are contributing to the problem, not the solution. And not educating 'customers' to what a PIT BULL is, and to NEVER expect a PIT BULL not to fight, even if it's later in life, is damaging the breed in itself. So because your dogs are from watered down lines, and that they're blue, that means that erases the possibility of them becoming animal aggressive all together? Selling these pups to people that have no clue, and not educating them on the breed and how to be a responsible pit bull owner, is almost like putting a loaded gun in someone's hands that knows nothing about guns. I could go on about this for days. That jus boils down to the power of the almighty dollar.

[Crystal621]

I already asked (like a million pages ago) what the reason was for wanting to become a breeder.

On the part about the public loving Zeus. The public always loves Havoc (doesn't everybody? lol) and ask if I have puppies off him or will soon...he's 9 months old! They've been asking since he was like 6 months old. Shows how much they know. And when I tell them no, he won't be bred until he has proven himself worthy [with titles] I've been told what a waste of a dog. I've even been told why bother showing when you could just breed them and make money without wasting time and money. JQP are idiots, and they are why this breed is going to hell in a handbasket.

Thanks for backing me up ColbyDogs lol, I just get upset when anyone affects my breed of choice negatively.
When one is willing to listen and take advice, I can be nice :)
DGP, I hope you do take everyone's advice, seemed to be gettin' somewhere last night.

[Crystal621]

ABK, my Boudreaux dog likes my cats too lol. He is pretty much fine with anything, unless it starts something with him first...but he is young still.

[DaGreatestPits]

Im takin yalls advice. I will show before i breed. I dont have anything i can breed right now anyway just what has already been bred. And about the BYB thing everyone can call it what you want. Everybody breeds dogs in their back yard so if im a backyard breed so is all the other breeders that breed dogs in there back yard so oh well. At least im trying to be a good BYB. Im trying to learn so i can be the best BYB i can be lol....BYB come on now. I guess you got a big ol fancy sky scraper you breed your dogs in so you are not a BYB huh......

[DaGreatestPits]

Crystal im taking in all the good advice but all the negative stuff is going through my eyes and coming out my ears. I already explained why i wanna be a breeder. about 20 post ago.

[Pit Bull Pride]

There's no such thing as a 'good BYB' ....

BYB is not nessecarily a LITERAL term, it's a title dubbed on people who breed carelessly without any regard to the breed nor the animals produced in a nutshell. The LAST thing you want to be is a BYB.

[DaGreatestPits]

It aint for money because i will never make what i spend. I even been told by a couple of local breeder who got a good reputation in this area that i spend too much money on uneccersary stuff for my dogs and i cant make money that way. The laugh when they see the fancy expense dogs house and dog bowl, the food i feed and building kennels becuase i they use barrel dog houses and and chain with their dog no kennels. So its not about money for me my dogs sre spoiled. Ill be fine if i break even and if i dont owell my dogs are happy and i made a family happy with a nice dog that will hopefully be there forever.

[DaGreatestPits]

i was being sarcastic pit bull pride lol sorry

[Crystal621]

DGP, you gotta grow some thick skin to be in these dogs...through all the negative comments and the insults, there is advice, good advice. Just like I wasn't able to talk nicely at first, we all love this breed so much and most of us have had this same conversation like a MILLION times...so after a while you just can't be nice anymore!

Also a BYB, is not someone who breeds dogs in their backyard..it's a misnomer I guess, kinda like kennel cough. It is someone who breeds just any two dogs together for whatever reasons besides to better the breed. They do not prove their dogs in any venue of being worthy to be bred. Their dogs are there basically to make them money, and they don't know or care where their offspring is. The dogs fill up shelters, have numerous health problems, temperament problems, and so on.

Here, I took this from this site which kinda explains it better, but I liked this :)
http://home.comcast.net/~NoPuppyMillsVA/What_is_a_Backyard_Breeder_/what_is_a_backyard_breeder_.html

A good breeder takes a LIFETIME interest in ALL dogs produced. They want to know how your dog does in it's new home, love getting calls and cards from you and are always there to advise you of a problem comes up. If a medical condition crops up, they want to know so if it is potentially hereditary, they can alter the program and try to stop the problem in future generations. A good breeder is a mentor and best friend to all buyers and dogs they produced.

[Pit Bull Pride]

i was being sarcastic pit bull pride lol sorry

JUS checkin


lol.

Well, on a serious note, NO sarcasm or 'mean-ness'........

If you aren't breeding for money, nor to breed proven titled stick, the WHAT IS your reason for breeding your dogs besides the fact that you love them because they're your babies, and you've gotten compliments on them from some people?

I'm just trying to at least be able to REACH the same page you are on....

I think I'm missing something.

I LOVE my dogs too, but they ALL are NOT worthy of breeding. Even as an established kennel, that has MANY wins at POINT shows, we have had VERY FEW breedings amongst our dogs! All which have proven themselves, AND, we stay in touch with ALL the pups we've placed (as there is so few).

[Crystal621]

And you guys would take any of them back if need be...NOT Havoc! LOL

[Pit Bull Pride]

And you guys would take any of them back if need be...NOT Havoc! LOL


Ummmmmmmmmm........*cough*

I think um that uh Havoc is in a bad envorrnment ummm.....and I must go confiscate him right away......


yeah.....that's it.......


:D

[ColbyDogs]

Im takin yalls advice. I will show before i breed. I dont have anything i can breed right now anyway just what has already been bred. And about the BYB thing everyone can call it what you want. Everybody breeds dogs in their back yard so if im a backyard breed so is all the other breeders that breed dogs in there back yard so oh well. At least im trying to be a good BYB. Im trying to learn so i can be the best BYB i can be lol....BYB come on now. I guess you got a big ol fancy sky scraper you breed your dogs in so you are not a BYB huh......

There is a huge difference what alot of the folks here are doing and what you are doing / have done.

A real breeder cares about what he puts on the ground and most importantly ...they know what they put on the ground and the reasons why. Its not for money either cause majority of the people here breed for the preservation of the breed and thier own personal stock not for the JQP nor to line thier pockets.

If breed preservation is not #1 on your list as to the reasons your breeding then you shouldn't dabble in the reproduction of the breed.....honestly no one needs that kind of breeder. These dogs are under some serious enemy fire with the BSL they face and the last thing we the fanciers of the breed need is more unstable, poor represenations of the breed from breedings that have taken place by the clueless.

So if your wondering where all the anger and outrage comes from....thats the reason why you will find hostility on this subject. I refuse to sit back and keep silent while people like yourself help destroy the breed that I love very much. When its all over and done and all the pieces are left on the ground majority of the people who helped destroy the breed will move on to the next fad of dog that comes along while those of us who truely appreciate , love and respect the breed are left with nothing but memories.

[DaGreatestPits]

Dam this site is addictive and resourceful im almost 2 hrs late for worklol. It started from me liking animals and i always wanted to do something with animals espacillay dogs. Then i ran into this breed and loved there personality, and their looks. I like that they can be the most loving animal in they world but if messed with they can be your worst enemy. Then i seen that everyone had there own style of Pitbull some big some small. Everybody stands behind the dogs they raise and breed like its their kids. Rooting for them in the show ring and weight pulls like a soccer mom would do at a game. I wanna do that produce something and put my name on it and stand by it against any other dog. I wanna produce good family pets and make families happy. I wanna be one of the good breeders you hear about when you hear pitbulls being mentioned. I wanna show people that Pitbull arent just killers and are family oriented just like other dogs. I wanna go to ADBA nationals UKC national rooting for my dogs and being happy if they win or not as long as they tried. Me & my girlfriend loves these dogs and the helps with our bonding too its a family thing and we both love it. I made a couple families happy this year and want to continue doing so. Belive it or not i am selective to who i serll to sometimes i didnt return phone call from people who called for pupus because they didnt sound right. I was giving up sales but i was confident enough that a good family will call. I could go on on why i wanna breed but im late for work i will respond to yalls comments in a couple hours.

[DaGreatestPits]

Im not trying to destroy the breed!!!!! I will just ignore you colb dogs you wasting your time.

[DaGreatestPits]

And i will take my dogs back if the owner does want it anymore. I have enough space to do it in my "BACK YARD" its quite big so .....yeah

[Crystal621]

Dam this site is addictive and resourceful im almost 2 hrs late for worklol. It started from me liking animals and i always wanted to do something with animals espacillay dogs. Then i ran into this breed and loved there personality, and their looks. I like that they can be the most loving animal in they world but if messed with they can be your worst enemy. Then i seen that everyone had there own style of Pitbull some big some small. Everybody stands behind the dogs they raise and breed like its their kids. Rooting for them in the show ring and weight pulls like a soccer mom would do at a game. I wanna do that produce something and put my name on it and stand by it against any other dog. I wanna produce good family pets and make families happy.

Good family pets can be found in the shelter. There are plenty to go around....twice.

I wanna be one of the good breeders you hear about when you hear pitbulls being mentioned.

So it's for fame? Not a good reason.

I wanna show people that Pitbull arent just killers and are family oriented just like other dogs.

So get active with YOUR dogs, not by producing more. You wanna know what I do to change people's minds?
I show my dogs and get them out there in the light.
I train my dogs in the front yard and neighbors see it and stop and ask.
I am active in fighting BSL
I participate in events like pit bull awarenss day, and responsible dog owners day.
I educate, I advocate.

I wanna go to ADBA nationals UKC national rooting for my dogs and being happy if they win or not as long as they tried. Me & my girlfriend loves these dogs and the helps with our bonding too its a family thing and we both love it. I made a couple families happy this year and want to continue doing so. Belive it or not i am selective to who i serll to sometimes i didnt return phone call from people who called for pupus because they didnt sound right. I was giving up sales but i was confident enough that a good family will call. I could go on on why i wanna breed but im late for work i will respond to yalls comments in a couple hours.


Basically you have no good reason to breed. Just because you love them doesn't mean everyone else has to. I am perfectly fine with not eveyone owning these dogs or knowing the love they can give. The less the better. Call me selfish. I do want people to know the truth about them, but I don't want everyone and their mom to have one.

Even if your dogs prove breedworthy, that doesn't give you a reason to breed. I've got a friend with ADBA champions on her yard that have never, and will never, be bred.

IMO, The ONLY reason to breed is to better the breed, breeding closer to the standard-not away. Function, Form, Temperament, and Health should always come first. I'm trying to get somewhere, like Krys said, on the same level with you. What are you doing that will BETTER the breed as a whole. Everything you mentioned was for you, not the dogs themselves.

[rallyracer]

not trying to get socio-economic here, but i have a question that i believe wasnt asked yet....

do you OWN your home, or are you a renter? (this is a serious ?)
in other words- is your landlord gonna get bent one day when he finds out that you have a dozen or so dogs living there?

[Pit Bull Pride]

Ok so besides the making a name for yourself thing....

WHAT good for the breed are you doing by breeding your lot of dogs?

If it's really because you LOVE the breed, and you care about the breed, like Crystal mentioned, become an advocate, do positive things with the dogs you have, get them all CGC and TT tested to add to the positive statistics, join the fight in BSL, write letters to congressman, train them well and take them out in public to 'show them off' to the public so you can show them how good these dogs can be.

I *LOVE* this breed, I am passionate about these dogs, besides my little family, these dogs are my LIFE. I am damn proud of my dogs, and the POSITIVE impact they have on people.

Good example, my lil black bitch Five-Oh.....her pedigree is a damn good one, I've had a FEW people contact me already trying to arrange a breeding, that would shell out a pretty penny. Do I have a planned breeding for her? NO. Why? She's gotta prove herself to be a phenominal representation ALL AROUND for this breed, before I'd ever consider reproducing. I'm not worried about 'making a name for myself in these dogs' as far as bloodlines go.... but I WOULD like to be known for being an advocate for this breed and standing up for this breed and fighting for the preservation of this breed. For that, I do not need to have a yard of breeding stock.

See where i'm goin here? If it's TRUELY deep down for the LOVE of the breed, you would COMPLETELY understand where i'm coming from.

I speak from experience as well. I worked for animal control for a LONG time, and HUNDREDS upon HUNDREDS of pit bulls died in my arms. And guess what? There were some 'real pretty' ones in the mix too. Purchased likely on a whim by the -some- of the SAME people that you have/can sell puppies to. Some that just took irresponsible paths in life, and some that were just undecucated and didn't know what to expect when they brought home that cute lil bull dog. But as long as people keep pumping out litters just because 'their dogs are pretty' and people out there will pay, our breed is forever going to be in more danger.

You know, this happens in EVERY breed. But In the pit bull dogs, I feel it's damn near the worst. Seems like owners of this breed are either damn good ones, or damn shitty ones. Never seems to be a medium.

Now I got myself in a tizzy. i'm going to go pop an aspirin and grab a Pepsi. I could totally go on all night about this.

Am I making sense here?

[jr102770]

how long did u work for ac? just curious

[Pit Bull Pride]

how long did u work for ac? just curious

I wasn't anyone special there, I just worked in the euthanasia room is all. I've been a Vet Tech for the majority. Three years too many.

[ABK]

DGP - Did you ever stop to think these "reputable" breeders might be laughing at you b/c you & not with you?

Barrel houses - most bulldogs have barrel houses b/c pit bulls are destructive & most pit bulls cannot tear a barrel house up. Furthermore, a barrel house is usually more comfortable AND warmer.

Kenneling - Did you know that chaining is usually more secure AND it usually offers the dog more living space? For example, a dog who is in a 10 x 10 kennel has 100 sq ft. of living space, while a dog on a 10 ft chain has 400 sq ft. of living space! So which is better?

I suspect my friend that they are laughing at you for a reason. You might want to check out why.

[=^^=GYPSYKITTIN]

I would seriously consider a spay nueter contract to those wh want the pups off your ckc female to avoid more sensless breedings, understandable the mistake of the breeding that took place but without pprs the pups are just backyard breeder fodder!
good luck and please consider that!

[rallyracer]

Kenneling - Did you know that chaining is usually more secure AND it usually offers the dog more living space? For example, a dog who is in a 10 x 10 kennel has 100 sq ft. of living space, while a dog on a 10 ft chain has 400 sq ft. of living space! So which is better?



actually a 10ft.chain spot yields 314sq.ft. of living space ;)
Area= 3.14x r2

for comparison, my dogs each have 300sq.ft. or space in their kennel runs.... 5'x60' = 300.....x3= whole lotta fence:eek:

[DaGreatestPits]

Ok...to rally racer i rent my home and my land lord is a good friend of the family. He doesnt care if i have 100 dogs because i keep up the property wayyyyyy better than his previous tennants who only had 1 lab and 2 cats. I even fixed what they messed up so he is grateful and he is plannig to get a dog from me this christmas for his kids. Secondly most of his properties are spacious so he is used to people runnung some type of businesses on his properties. mechanic work, dogs etc.....So thats not a problem i got a 1/2 acre or more to work with. I only have 7 dogs and 2 are just pets. So they have room to run freely with fenced in space i made sure of that. My girlfriend ans soon to be wife has 25+ acres willed down to her and we are trying to figure out what to do with it now. Build a house or buy a brand new mobile home or something to put on the land and start from there. We will have alot of room to do other stuff like horses and maybe one day have a sanctioned show on our land.

[DaGreatestPits]

And to pitbull pride i will not be reeding alot of dogs i want 10 good dogs at the most and go from there. i dont nedd 100 dogs. I cant teach 100 dogs to weight pull.
I am coming p with more and more goals as i go along. I should get better and smart as i go along. Especially with all this advice im getting from yall

[DaGreatestPits]

My dogs are on 20 foot chains.....well galvanized wire the really big ones and have there own kennel too. So they are double secured. I nly look them up in they kennel if im doing something around they yard or letting some of they friendly dogs play with each other. i only got one that doesnt get along with the other im trying to fix that now.

[DaGreatestPits]

And to ABK what makes these breeders "reputable" and me not a reputable??? I seen how they do things and they dont do it no different from me...well maybe a little just there setup is different. they are just more popular because of the dogs they have. I know you know one of them if you live in MS everyone knows her. So if she is a good breeder i guess i am too dammit.

[ABK]

DGP - Whoa there. YOU called them reputable, not me. I don't even know who this person is, so how can I say what they are or are not? And who are they? I live in MS. Maybe I know them. If you don't want to call their name out on a public board, PM me.

I don't see anything wrong w/ chaining a dog inside a kennel. I have to do some mine that way. But to scoff at a person who chains & make the implication a person is better b/c they kennel is not right.

Also, to answer your Q as to what would make you disreputable, that has already been pointed out to you. See post #32 (among others).

Forgot to add, thanks for the correction Rally. My math is not so good so I asked my husband what the sq ft would be. I guess his math is not that good either! lol.

[DaGreatestPits]

DGP - Whoa there. YOU called them reputable, not me. I don't even know who this person is, so how can I say what they are or are not? And who are they? I live in MS. Maybe I know them. If you don't want to call their name out on a public board, PM me.

I don't see anything wrong w/ chaining a dog inside a kennel. I have to do some mine that way. But to scoff at a person who chains & make the implication a person is better b/c they kennel is not right.

Also, to answer your Q as to what would make you disreputable, that has already been pointed out to you. See post #32 (among others).

Forgot to add, thanks for the correction Rally. My math is not so good so I asked my husband what the sq ft would be. I guess his math is not that good either! lol.
You know the lady that ran the ADBA Fun Show in Tunica???

[DaGreatestPits]

Some of the stuff you mentioned in post 32 are some of the stuff she does and she is well respect around here for her dogs......So.......im confused but i understand what you are saying. She breeds blue to blue. Some of her dogs she doesnt show but some she does but the ones she doesnt show she still breeds.....Uhhh what else......

[Marty]

DaGreatestPits, I been watching you viewing who's online, you say your here to learn right?

Well I just want to inform you there's more to the site than this one thread ;)

Branch out a little and get your feet wet :rolleyes:

[DaGreatestPits]

Ok thanks Marty i started this one so thats why i only been in this one for the past 2 days

[ABK]

DGP - There were several women running the show. Are you talking about the Taylors or the Penas? If so, I met them through the ADBA club. Before then I had never heard of them or their dogs. But that might not mean a whole lot since I'm sure not everyone knows everyone else in the whole entire state.

But even if the person you named does this or that, should you? I guess that goes back to the old saying, if your buddy jumped off a bridge, should you do it too? Of course not!

Look, we all have our good points & our bad points. But right now you have more bad than good (not as a person, but as a breeder). But you can turn that around if you want to. It's just a matter of wanting to.

I will let you do your own research on breeding blue x blue & the disease CDA. Maybe a little work on your own will get you turning in the right direction.

Good luck!

[DaGreatestPits]

The Taylors ABK my dog storm the one you said that got a decent pedigree she is breed from 2 blue dogs from the aylors and alot of people around here got dogs from Taylors and they are well known. But i understand i shouldnt do what they do but shoot thats how people produces blues right???? Two blues get you more blues. She doesnt mix her blue dogs with her game dogs show she breeds blue blood with blue blood.....that sounds kind of logical right???? i read about the skin diseases and stuff that blue dogs carry. All my blues been to the vet and i was told they were just fine so i guess the breeder that bred my blue dogs did something right or i just got lucky. I will go check out the side affects of breeding blue to blue.....

[DaGreatestPits]

And im trying to work on the BYB thing ABK thats why in here.....

[wiseguy]

My 2 cents you came on this forum to learn. I assume you believe there are some people here that have the knowledge you are looking for. What I noticed is once you didn't hear what you want you quickly jumped into the my dogs my business. If that is the case why ask what anyone thinks. I been a fan of the APBT since I was 13 I read every Stratton book I could get my hands on at 16 I got my first APBT. When I was 17 I became friends with a dogman and started to learn from him and the people he intoduced me to. Many of times I heard things I disagreed with that went against what I believed or wanted to do. I decided they knew a little more about the subject then I do so I went with what they had to say. I am now 37 I know a good deal and still continue to learn from some people I talk to. The secret for me I choose to listen and not speak. This was hard when I was 18 and 19yo but it helped me in the long run. As for the money I could sell bull dogs for the next 10 years at $1000 a pup and probably not break even on the money I spent in the past:(. Just because you aren't making money selling dogs doesn't make you a more honest dog man then someone that is making a profit.

[ABK]

But i understand i shouldnt do what they do but shoot thats how people produces blues right????

So this is your focus? To produce more blues even if you know the method is faulty? Yes, blue x blue will beget the most blues per litter BUT it is not the only way to produce blues. Heck, I got 5 blue pups out of a black/white male bred to a red/blacknosed female!

Furthermore, blue x blue is not the BEST way to produce blues & which is better - quantity or quality?

I would tell you the best way to produce blues & why not breed blue x blue, but I want to encourage you to do a little work on your own. Please do some homework & get back at me with your answers! ;)

[DaGreatestPits]

Soooo....the breeder i get my dogs from are not reputable breeders since they breed blue to blue???? Then why are alot of people getting there dogs from "them" you know the name i mentioned earlier???? Then been breeding for 8yrs and got some of there dogs on there yard straight from these well know dog men yall speak of???? Im confused again......everybody got a diefferent opinion on everybody else....you say breeding blue to blue is bad but there are well known lines that do this, watchdog, winegarner, chaos, Gaff, etc.....and they are well known and respected by alot of people for there dogs so.....i dont know what to believe but im still taking yalls advice because yall know wayyyy more than i do.

[bahamutt99]

Breeding blue x blue because they are the best dogs available is one thing. Breeding blue x blue strictly to get blue is another thing entirely. Blue is a dilution gene. If you continually breed blue x blue x blue over the generations without reintroducing strongly-pigmented dogs, the color will wash out. The more washed out the color gets, the more skin problems you will have. Some blue breeders have it written right on their websites that they wont guarantee against skin problems because the blue color in general is related to them.

This is directly off a blue breeder's website:

"THE BLUE COAT COLORING IN MOST BREEDS IS ASSOCIATED WITH SKIN PROBLEMS . BLUE COATED DOGS OF ALL BREEDS ARE MORE PRONE TO BACTERIAL, VIRAL, STAPH AND FUNGAL INFECTIONS AS WELL AS VARIOUS FORMS OF DERMATITIS, ALLERGIES, DEMODEX AND COLOR MUTANT ALOPECIA. WHILE SOME OF THESE CONDITIONS ARE HEREDITARY MANY OF THEM ARE SIMPLY THE RESULT OF THE BLUE COAT COLORING. WE AND OUR PARTNER KENNELS HAVE DONE COUNTLESS HOURS OF RESEARCH AND HAD LENGTHY CONVERSATIONS WITH OUT VETS. AS A RESULT OF OUR FINDINGS AND THE OPINIONS OF OUR VETS WE DO NOT GUARANTEE AGAINST ANY SKIN OR COAT PROBLEMS. NOR WILL WE BE RESPONSIBLE FOR SKIN AND COAT PROBLEMS THAT ARE COMMON FOR DOGS WITH THE BLUE COLORING. MOST OF THESE COAT PROBLEMS ARE EASILY AND INEXPENSIVLEY TREATED FOR AROUND $50.00. MOST BREEDERS WILL NOT TELL YOU ABOUT THESE COMMON PROBLEMS BUT WE FEEL IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO KNOW. WE HAVE SEEN IT PRODUCED IN ALL BLOODLINES AND COLORS BUT MOST COMMONLY IN BLUES OF ALL BLOODLINES AND MANY OTHER BLUE COATED BREEDS. NOT ALL BLUE DOGS WILL BE EFFECTED BY A SKIN PROBLEM BUT YOU MUST BE PREPARED TO TREAT YOUR DOG IN THE EVENT THAT HE DOES. WE WILL NOT KNOWINGLY BREED ANY DOG THAT IS A PRODUCER OF A SKIN DISEASE. THERE IS NO TEST AVAILABLE FOR THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO SIGNS OF INFECTION. ADULT DOGS CAN BE CARRIERS AND NOT EVER SHOW SIGNS OF INFECTION. FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THIS, PLEASE DISCUSS THIS WITH YOUR VET AND RESEARCH IT ONLINE OR ELSEWHERE AS WE HAVE, BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO BUY A BLUE DOG OR ONE WITH PARENTS WHO ARE BLUE! WE WILL NOT REPLACE A DOG OR REFUND MONEY ON A DOG PURCHASED FROM US THAT BECOMES EFFECTED BY DEMODECTIC MANGE."

[DaGreatestPits]

Ooh.........ok i see.....so what about those lines i just mentioned?????? What did they do so different??? watchdog, chaos, winegarner, gaff etc.....

[ABK]

You win 1st prize Baha!! The BEST breeding to do is blue x black, NEVER blue x blue. Blue x black will keep the pigment strong whereas blue x blue will dilute the coat too much.

Look in your peds DGP. Winegarner bred mostly blue x black or blue x red. So did Hughzees/Chaos. They did some LIMITED blue x blue breedings, but most were blue x black or blue x red. If it was blue x blue it wasn't heavily multi-generational.

To answer your original question DGP, the Taylors probably do not know breeding blue x blue isn't the best way to get blues. After all, they're more game type people. But you have tons of money grubbing "greeders" breeding blue x blue x blue to get max amount of blue pups so many fanciers who aren't versed in coat color genetics (like many game dog people) do not know that blue x blue isn't good. All most fanciers know is that everyone else is doing it, so it must be OK.

[DaGreatestPits]

So thats why the my dogs dont have skin problems i got it now.....Ok i have 4 blues. 2 of my blues came from a breeder who breeds black to blue all the time and her litters end up with like out of 10 7blues 2 blacks and like one fawn. So most of my blues came from other colors too now that i look at some of there parents, grand parent and so one. My blue stud and the pup i got from taylors is the only one thats was blue to blue. Thanks ABK!!!!!! I feel like im getting somewhere slowly but surely....

[DaGreatestPits]

And i also notice she always keeps every color but blues out of her litter i guess to mix and match colors.....

[gh32]

I hardly ever post a reply but in this case I was amazed by a particular comment made in this discussion.That a person that claims to be a fancier of the breed made it suprises me,but then he dosen't like game bred dogs and doesn't seem to think a triple bred Boudreaux dog deserves a little respect.Here's the comment-Thats why they passing those BSL law because yall trying to keep breeding those game bred dogs and the wrong people getting a hold to them and fighting them. If we get rid of all game bred dogs dog fighting would be gone and they wont ban pitbulls. Did you ever think of it that way???? -Is there anyway you'd like to explain that?Maybe I don't quite get it,but wouldn't that be the extinction of the breed.All the real pitbulls would be gone,it doesn't make sense.If I couldn't own a gamebred pitbull,I'd own something else.Anyway,unlike most people I don't care what you breed.You'll be the one feeding it.But to call for the extinction of all pitbulls is a little extreme.By the way,the reason their passing the BSL laws is the same as a lot of other laws that are passed,gun control etc. Just another way to control the people and butt into their personal business.

[gh32]

It's seems he just suggested exterminating the gamebred dogs by selective breeding and then our only choices would be the blue dogs.Which if you didn't know better you'd think anyway by the BILLIONS of them nearly when you look at the online classifieds and websites.I'm so sick of hearing short and stocky and head size I could puke.