Need Opinions, Please...(Containment method)

[Suki]

We're having this "debate", here at work, so I was wondering if i could get some of your opinions, as well, being as you guys are also all 'dog people'...



Say, hypothetically, you had to leave a dog in a crate. How long is too long, in your opinions, to leave said dog in that type of containment, before it's deemed "cruel" or "mean" or even "inhumane".

Thanks in advance for any type of feedback~appreciated. :)

[spaceghost]

if the crate is just big enough for them to stand up and turn around,i say more than 8 hours would be too long not inhumane tho, JMO

My pup stayed in his kennel while i worked during school. That was about 7 hours at a time. But know that its summer im starting a job working more hours, so hopefully now that hes 7 months old i may be able to leave him out in my apt. while im at work?

[smokey024]

I say it depends on the dog. If you have a dog that will go in the crate after 4 hours then thats too long for that dog but if they can hold it for 10 hours i guess it would be ok for that dog as long as they get plenty of exercise when not in the crate.

[coolhandjean]

I'd say no longer than 4 hours, maybe 5. I personally don't like crates, because they can't freely use the bathroom (technically, they can, but you know what I mean). I understand that some people live in areas though, were leaving your dog outside isn't an option though.

[bahamutt99]

I've left mine crated (not by choice) for up to 12 hours. That, IMO, is too long, but they didn't suffer any ill because of it. I'd say that an adult dog can be crated for a normal work shift, 8-10 hours. But when you get home, the first thing you need to do is let them out and give them some exercise and fresh air.

[genevieve]

I think it depends on how often it happens. For example, I think if you have an unpredictable job and occasionally get stuck there 12-14 hours, but normally the dog is only crated 8, then it's not a huge deal (mine hold it that overnight sleeping on the bed without a problem). I think it's a totally different situation if you are asking a dog to stay in the crate 12-14 hours EVERY day. 4 days a week of 8 hours, one of 14 and then out all weekend is much better IMO than 7 days a week of 10-12 hours in the crate. Also depends on how much exercise the dog normally gets, if it is crated when the people are home (crate and rotate households), if it is stressed in the crate, etc. My one dog is sleeping in her crate with the door open right now, which I guess makes me feel better about the fact that she has to be in there when I am not home. Genevieve

[texas_dogger]

I am not a big fan of using crates at all but I also live in the country so I dont have to. However if I did live somewhere that I had to crate my dog/dogs I would say no longer than 5 to 6 hours max. The only reason I would have one of mine inside in a crate is if my 2 kennels outside are habitated and the bitch in question was in heat.

[MinorThreat]

My opinion is if you have to crate a dog while going to work 5X week then thats to much crate time.

I wouldnt own any dogs if I had to crate due to lack of outside space

just my opinion

[Howzit]

IMO a crate should only be used when transporting an animal to and from a certain location or in an emergency situation or under certain special conditions but shouldnt be used as a everyday containment method like a kennel while you go to work. In a dog crate a dog cant even take a step to walk one feet or to use the bathroom when he needs too without stepping in his own urine and feces. Imagine if you was contained in a crate for so many hours a day how would you feel? For those that say well they live in a apartment or a very small house and leaving the dog outside aint a option then either you shouldnt own any dogs or you should build him his own special custom play pen or kennel area where he can at least move around.

[HugoBoss]

In my case, my apbt doesnt have a problem being in the crate , just as long as im there in the house, he actually prefers being in his crate than being on his chain setup, because he want to be with me inside the house, even though most of the time he is in the house , he is in his crate as i have a neo mastiff and a mastiff mix , at night my dog sleeps the whole night in this crate , the crate is in my room.

[Suki]

Thank you all, for the replies. I really appreciate the feed back. I'm not a fan of crates, tho, i know for some owners, they're necessary. i will forward the replies to the debate~ees! ;)
again, appreciated! http://www.game-dog.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

(i personally feel about 4-5 hrs max, tho not everyday, but rather from time to time.)

[spaceghost]

i live in an apt. so i shouldnt own an apbt? i bet mine gets more exercise than yours...:eek:

[chinsnpits]

Gavin is crated when no one is at home; or when we are sleeping. Since he is semi-dog aggressive(90% of the time he's great with them; but if any type of food is near, he goes after the dogs), it's better safe then sorry. I'd rather him "deal" with being in a crate over night, or when we can't supervise then coming home to hurt dogs.

The crate is never used as punishment. He goes in on his own to sleep at night, and during the day while he's allowed out you'll often see him curled up in the crate on a blanket.

I'd rather him inside, and safe then outside where god knows who will try to mess with him.

He also isn't crated for more then 8 hours max. Someone is normally always home, or home within a few hours to let him out.

[purplepig]

Well Suki,
You did use the word "inhumane" didnt you? So to say that a dog crated more than 5 hours is inhumane, I'd have to disagree. That is one heck of a word to use. I have had dogs that, because of an injury, had to be crated for a week or so.(Not counting times to let them relieve themselves, which was about 3 times per day, and only to relieve them selves). I believe that it becomes inhumane at the point that a dog lives in the crate, in it's fecies and urine. I believe at that point it is inhumane. And I have actually seen a fella who breeds them little yoda dogs, and that is the condition of his dogs. You go into what he calls the "nursery", and in 5 min your lungs will be hurting from the fumes. He cleans everyday, but what he's doing just is not working.

I see nothing wrong with a dog in the crate at the house while you are at work, if you interact with it from the time you get home till bedtime. I personally do not prefer a crate for containing a dog when I am not dealing with them, but I dont prefer kennels either, I prefer a chain setup. My dogs are now in kennel runs, but wish I had the room for the chain setups.

So to answer the question, I'd say if the dog is left in the kennel for more than 24 hours, in it's fecies, it is inhumane. I'd also say that if 90% of the dogs life is in the kennel, then what's the point of having a dog? I'd rather be shot than have that kind of existance.

[Suki]

tx for your opinion, Jay. :)
people tend to use many different adjectives, and yeah, "inhumane" was one that popped into my head, as well, so i included it, "strong" as it may be.
i appreciate you taking the time to reply.

[purplepig]

Well Sue,

You know if I can ever do anything for you, I'm here. Of course in this instance it is just simply my opinion.

[Suki]

likewise! :) always just a phone call or an email away~

and yeah, your opinions are exactly what i asked for, so tx again for your reply~sincerely....;)

[Rocky H. Balboa]

IMO a crate should only be used when transporting an animal to and from a certain location or in an emergency situation or under certain special conditions but shouldnt be used as a everyday containment method like a kennel while you go to work. In a dog crate a dog cant even take a step to walk one feet or to use the bathroom when he needs too without stepping in his own urine and feces. Imagine if you was contained in a crate for so many hours a day how would you feel? For those that say well they live in a apartment or a very small house and leaving the dog outside aint a option then either you shouldnt own any dogs or you should build him his own special custom play pen or kennel area where he can at least move around.

First off, my dogs are all in crates. If I could, they would be in chain setups. Now, that does not mean my dogs are being ..lol..lol...treated inhumanely. There are two VERY important things that need to be included in a crate lifestyle...they are: discipline and exercise. Every indoor family dog should be disciplined to use the bathroom at the same time(s) every day. Their body gets used to...rather conditioned to want to use the bathroom around those specified times. For instance, i know only two dog owners(non-abpt) that take their dogs out to empty twice a day....the rest takes them out once a day. Is a disciplined body a inhumane body?

Like I stated, my dogs get crated. If any of you know an ounce about dogs, you will know dogs sleep a lot. You, as the owner, should be the one dictating sleep time. The rest of the time should be time to burn energy.

Too many good dogs would have never been if your ideologies were the norm in our dog society. Many good dogs lived in crates all their lives. I wonder if YOU and others that agree with you think birds in cages is "inhumane" (sorry, i chuckled again). Birds are creatures that fly many miles every day....yet, too many people have them in cages.

Anyway, as long as the dogs are being exercise to exhaustion and socialized, why is it bad for them to sleep/rest while in crate? I am in a crate for 8 hours a day (at work)...sometimes 12. Poor me....right?

[Claddagh_Reds]

RH.. Jsut a question on taking a dog out once a day to the bathroom

don't you think that a dog holding it 23 hours is a bit to much, body conditioned to it or not? That really has to be hard on the kidneys and such! Even the twice a day seems to be pushing it. Im not saying the dog can't do it but Im trying to look at it from a medical aspect.
Dogs are creatures of habit and it's good to have them conditioned to "going" at specific times for more than one reason

I see nothing wrong with a dog being in a crate, I use them for sick dogs, pups, if the dog isn't fully housetrained yet ..8 -9 hours is probably the longest I would leave them though unless it's a young young pup who needs to get out more often or a sick dog who needs to rest,

[Rocky H. Balboa]

RH.. Jsut a question on taking a dog out once a day to the bathroom

don't you think that a dog holding it 23 hours is a bit to much, body conditioned to it or not? That really has to be hard on the kidneys and such! Even the twice a day seems to be pushing it. Im not saying the dog can't do it but Im trying to look at it from a medical aspect.
Dogs are creatures of habit and it's good to have them conditioned to "going" at specific times for more than one reason

I see nothing wrong with a dog being in a crate, I use them for sick dogs, pups, if the dog isn't fully housetrained yet ..8 -9 hours is probably the longest I would leave them though unless it's a young young pup who needs to get out more often or a sick dog who needs to rest,

The funny thing is that i did not think there was anything unusual about these practices until speaking with a buddy from Texas that has lived the rural all his life. I think the difference in the city life is that these dogs do not have an open buffet and 24 hour water fountain available. They eat at a certain time and empty at a certain time. Those who feed twice a day usually take them out same amount of times. I have made it a point to take my younger dogs out at least four times a day. I still take the dog in my avatar out once a day though.....except for the weekends.

The crate is wrong for people who do not compensate by love, attention and lots of exercise.....my dogs look for their crates after i get done with them.....I love them and kiss them for a long time....just like Almira (sp?) from the looney toons (i think). Sorry i got the silly bug today.

[game_test]

IMO if a dog spends the majority of its life in a crate it is a waste of a dog and pointless. what kind of life is that? id say get a yard?

i keep my dogs in 6 x 8 welded wire kennels. that is the smallest i will go with thier containment. at least then they have the ability to relieve themselves, have access to fresh water at all times, and they can at least run around the available kennel space. i reserve crating for injured animals or transportation only. i also take each dog out and work it good at least every other day or they get restless.

if i had a dog to get rid of i wouldnt sell or give it to anyone that planned on holding it in a crate most of the time, but thats just me.

[PirbulBongo]

Well, it depends imo, i crate my dog Tete since hes 4 months old and he's used to all nights sleep on his crate, now i empty him before sleep time and the first thing i do when i wake up is go walk him.

He's used to his crate and hes been on there for 8hours before when there is no one at home, i just do not trust him with my older dog and hes crated when there is no supervision, but thats probably 1-2 times / week for few hours.

Now the most important is empty him, tire him before and after crate time, there is nothing inhumane on letting a dog sleep for a good 4-5 or even 8h-12h if you gave him lots of exercise before and the dog is USED to this useful tool for us that cant chain or live in small apartments.

My 0.2.

[game_test]

sleeping at night is one thing, or an 8 hour span of time is one thing, but being in a crate all day, taken out for a while and worked, then being put back for the night is rediculous.

[Howzit]

[quote=Rocky H. Balboa;279433]First off, my dogs are all in crates. If I could, they would be in chain setups. Now, that does not mean my dogs are being ..lol..lol...treated inhumanely. There are two VERY important things that need to be included in a crate lifestyle...they are: discipline and exercise. Every indoor family dog should be disciplined to use the bathroom at the same time(s) every day. Their body gets used to...rather conditioned to want to use the bathroom around those specified times. For instance, i know only two dog owners(non-abpt) that take their dogs out to empty twice a day....the rest takes them out once a day. Is a disciplined body a inhumane body?

Are you serious? How many times a day do YOU use the bathroom RH????

Like I stated, my dogs get crated. If any of you know an ounce about dogs, you will know dogs sleep a lot. You, as the owner, should be the one dictating sleep time. The rest of the time should be time to burn energy.

What the beep does a dog sleeping alot have to do with a crate? LOL Speaking of experience you probably have even less then a ounce of knowledge when it comes to bulldogs. LOL

Too many good dogs would have never been if your ideologies were the norm in our dog society. Many good dogs lived in crates all their lives. I wonder if YOU and others that agree with you think birds in cages is "inhumane" (sorry, i chuckled again). Birds are creatures that fly many miles every day....yet, too many people have them in cages.

Bird cages are usually big enough and equivalent to a dog KENNEL if you get the right proper size for the bird to flap its wings move around jumping form perch to perch excercising and to relieve themselves on the ground anytime they want without stepping in there own filth all the while having fresh water and food avaliable at all times. Can a dog in a crate do this also????

Anyway, as long as the dogs are being exercise to exhaustion and socialized, why is it bad for them to sleep/rest while in crate? I am in a crate for 8 hours a day (at work)...sometimes 12. Poor me....right?

Oh my gooshness you just dont get it. At work you are not confined to a area where you cant even take one full step to move around and not be able to use the bathroom unless you relieve yourself right there where you stand/sit and not able to take a break and eat lunch for 5-7 days a week for 8-12 hrs. a day.

[purplepig]

I'll tell you what's inhumane!!!

Making a dog wear spandex!!!ROFLM*O

[Claddagh_Reds]

I'll tell you what's inhumane!!!

Making a dog wear spandex!!!ROFLM*O


LMFAO!!!!!!!
then again, it's inhumane for some people to wear it, too lmao

[CynthiaATL]

I've left mine crated (not by choice) for up to 12 hours. That, IMO, is too long, but they didn't suffer any ill because of it. I'd say that an adult dog can be crated for a normal work shift, 8-10 hours. But when you get home, the first thing you need to do is let them out and give them some exercise and fresh air.

I agree. My dog's crates have always been big enough for them to get up move around in. I could fit 2 of them in there. Now crating for longer than 8-10 hours is not the ideal situation however as long as the dog is geting exercise and a release of energy and time with the owner than I do not see a problem with it. I chose to have mine outside while I am at work. I have crated as well. And wether they are crated or outside both have pros and cons. I just hate when people try to say that a certain method of containment is cruel. No the cruelity comes in with the owner. Not the method.

When I was in school in CO I had to crate Scrappy for a long periods of time. Also when I lived with my roommate before I moved to FL. There was a chaining law. Now I live on 16 acres and in the middle of nowhere so my dogs are outside and come inside most nights.

[coolhandjean]

LMFAO!!!!!!!
then again, it's inhumane for some people to wear it, too lmao

yeah, it's inhumane for the people who have to see them. lol.

[Suki]

^ LOL!!!!! ~was thinking the same thing!
once again, guys, tx for the replies. all are very interesting and helpful. :)

[oldtimebullylove]

I would have to say 10+ hours and even then I would not consider it cruel. I think cruel is 12 hours plus a day every day, without fail. I figure if you have to have your crated for that length of time every single day, then you haven't much time to spend with them. It is not good for a dog to not void in that period of time all of the time.
8-10 is about standard.
We're having this "debate", here at work, so I was wondering if i could get some of your opinions, as well, being as you guys are also all 'dog people'...



Say, hypothetically, you had to leave a dog in a crate. How long is too long, in your opinions, to leave said dog in that type of containment, before it's deemed "cruel" or "mean" or even "inhumane".

Thanks in advance for any type of feedback~appreciated. :)

[Rocky H. Balboa]

Yummy, fresh meat.:):D:eek:

First off, my dogs are all in crates. If I could, they would be in chain setups. Now, that does not mean my dogs are being ..lol..lol...treated inhumanely. There are two VERY important things that need to be included in a crate lifestyle...they are: discipline and exercise. Every indoor family dog should be disciplined to use the bathroom at the same time(s) every day. Their body gets used to...rather conditioned to want to use the bathroom around those specified times. For instance, i know only two dog owners(non-abpt) that take their dogs out to empty twice a day....the rest takes them out once a day. Is a disciplined body an inhumane body?

Are you serious? How many times a day do YOU use the bathroom RH????

about 25 to 30 times a day....how about you? Do you mean to say that if i go to the bathroom every five minutes, my dogs should too?

The key word you and [some] others seem to be neglecting is DISCIPLINE. A dog that randomly urinates and defacates is NOT house trained. A dog has been domesticated into routines. Eating, drinking, and emptying among other things should be at specific times every day. A truly house trained dog will eat and drink at specific times AND empty at specific times.

You obviously did not read what you quoted.

Like I stated, my dogs get crated. If any of you know an ounce about dogs, you will know dogs sleep a lot. You, as the owner, should be the one dictating sleep time. The rest of the time should be time to burn energy.

What the beep does a dog sleeping alot have to do with a crate? LOL Speaking of experience you probably have even less then a ounce of knowledge when it comes to bulldogs. LOL

Oh boy....we got ourselves a cyber dogman amongs us. I will try to keep this reply in basic English to help you follow simple logic. Dogs sleep about 16 hours a day. Owner DISCIPLINES dog to sleep those hours while in crate. Crate is a dog's den. I hope you were able to follow. If not, take your mouth out of your mother's breast and get yourself an education.

By the way, this topic does not relate exclusively...oops, i mean only to bulldogs. Many types of dog breeds are crated. If you feel my level of knowledge is not upto par....oops, i mean is not equal to yours, place me in your ignore list and show US your full potential. So far, you have merely shown your age.

Too many good dogs would have never been if your ideologies were the norm in our dog society. Many good dogs lived in crates all their lives. I wonder if YOU and others that agree with you think birds in cages is "inhumane" (sorry, i chuckled again). Birds are creatures that fly many miles every day....yet, too many people have them in cages.

Bird cages are usually big enough and equivalent to a dog KENNEL if you get the right proper size for the bird to flap its wings move around jumping form perch to perch excercising and to relieve themselves on the ground anytime they want without stepping in there own filth all the while having fresh water and food avaliable at all times. Can a dog in a crate do this also????

enough room to flap its wings? lmao. You really DO NOT know bird sh!t about anything do you? Most birds are creatures that fly miles upon miles. While many of those miles are used to find food, mates, and shelter.....a large portion of it is out of sheer ENJOYMENT. A cage, regardless of size, cannot compare to open space flight. This mental anguish to the bird can be deemed more inhumane treatment than any crated dog.

Why in the world would a dog need "fresh water at all times"? Neither food or water should be available as if it was an open buffet. Again, discipline goes a long way to a happy dog and owner.

Anyway, as long as the dogs are being exercise to exhaustion and socialized, why is it bad for them to sleep/rest while in crate? I am in a crate for 8 hours a day (at work)...sometimes 12. Poor me....right?

Oh my gooshness you just dont get it. At work you are not confined to a area where you cant even take one full step to move around and not be able to use the bathroom unless you relieve yourself right there where you stand/sit and not able to take a break and eat lunch for 5-7 days a week for 8-12 hrs. a day.

lol, one summer, I worked at a construction site where no one used the bathroom their entire shift. You used it before heading to work and once you came back home. There was no readilly available water unless we sent a guy to a store near by. We worked under the sun doing this and that and using all our muscles and energy. We all got used to this and our bodies became disciplined in our schedule. Obviously we also had to discipline our mouths not to drink or eat too much or too frequently. I also used to work in McDonald's drive thru....I went to the bathroom only at lunch time, if at all. I literally stood in one spot taking orders and money on two different registers. There was no chance in hell i could go to the bathroom unless released by a manager. Needless to say, it rarely if at all happened.

By the way, after graduation, i have rarely taken lunch at any of my jobs. I find them to be a waste of time and makes the day go longer. I rather work through lunch and get out early.

If you decide to reply, please gather your thoughts and add some substance to your post. I will advise you to shut up, sit down, and learn from the knowledgeable members on this site.

[Howzit]

Yummy, fresh meat.:):D:eek:



about 25 to 30 times a day....how about you? Do you mean to say that if i go to the bathroom every five minutes, my dogs should too?

Nope every 5min. is too extreme meaning you or the dog must have some kind of blatter problems but 8-10hrs of not using the bathroom is kind a harsh even for a dog.

The key word you and [some] others seem to be neglecting is DISCIPLINE. A dog that randomly urinates and defacates is NOT house trained. A dog has been domesticated into routines. Eating, drinking, and emptying among other things should be at specific times every day. A truly house trained dog will eat and drink at specific times AND empty at specific times.

Discipline and routines are good but you cant always control your bowl movements as they have a mind of there own as every dogs stomach or body can vary according to different foods he eats ect....accidents can always happen but at the same time the dog will feel guilty for something that is not his fault but his owners for not letting him out to use the bathrooms as appropreiate times when he really needs to go.

You obviously did not read what you quoted.



Oh boy....we got ourselves a cyber dogman amongs us. I will try to keep this reply in basic English to help you follow simple logic. Dogs sleep about 16 hours a day. Owner DISCIPLINES dog to sleep those hours while in crate. Crate is a dog's den. I hope you were able to follow. If not, take your mouth out of your mother's breast and get yourself an education.

Again NOT all dogs sleep 16hrs a day. Wont comment on your other wise ass remarks as Marty is already getting pissed due to all his stress he's having in his private life of which I understand but shouldnt use his emotions to influences this site though JMO.

By the way, this topic does not relate exclusively...oops, i mean only to bulldogs. Many types of dog breeds are crated. If you feel my level of knowledge is not upto par....oops, i mean is not equal to yours, place me in your ignore list and show US your full potential. So far, you have merely shown your age.

I have shown you alot you just dont see it.

enough room to flap its wings? lmao. You really DO NOT know bird sh!t about anything do you? Most birds are creatures that fly miles upon miles. While many of those miles are used to find food, mates, and shelter.....a large portion of it is out of sheer ENJOYMENT. A cage, regardless of size, cannot compare to open space flight. This mental anguish to the bird can be deemed more inhumane treatment than any crated dog.

True to a degree again a dog in a crate cant even take one step while a bird in a cage can and a dog in a crate cant urinate or defficate if he needs to without lying in his own filth while a bird can. Commen sense is all animals need some sort of containment thats what seperated animals from humans as they cannot logically think on there own or to speak for that matter.


Why in the world would a dog need "fresh water at all times"? Neither food or water should be available as if it was an open buffet. Again, discipline goes a long way to a happy dog and owner.

All dogs should have fresh water available to them at all times. Food on the other hand is another thing and doesnt have to be avaliable at all times but rather fed at specific times IMO.

lol, one summer, I worked at a construction site where no one used the bathroom their entire shift. You used it before heading to work and once you came back home. There was no readilly available water unless we sent a guy to a store near by. We worked under the sun doing this and that and using all our muscles and energy. We all got used to this and our bodies became disciplined in our schedule. Obviously we also had to discipline our mouths not to drink or eat too much or too frequently. I also used to work in McDonald's drive thru....I went to the bathroom only at lunch time, if at all. I literally stood in one spot taking orders and money on two different registers. There was no chance in hell i could go to the bathroom unless released by a manager. Needless to say, it rarely if at all happened.

All constructions site should have the portapotty. Your an adult you should of brought a water cooler with water in it before going to the site.

By the way, after graduation, i have rarely taken lunch at any of my jobs. I find them to be a waste of time and makes the day go longer. I rather work through lunch and get out early.

It seems like you just making excuses for the things you can control but a animal is not smart like a human and cant control his own things and relies on us to do it for them.

If you decide to reply, please gather your thoughts and add some substance to your post. I will advise you to shut up, sit down, and learn from the knowledgeable members on this site.


I aint gonna argue with NO AMETEUR LOL not even worth my time. Ive known you from the first time you ever appeared on these messages boards asking some very sketchy questions like you was a cop or something but realized later on that you are just an ameteur trying to learn by talking too much instead of listening.

[Marty]

Ok I've had it with bashing between members!!! ( I'm a better dogman than you, I got better dogs than you, I know more than you ) enough of the damn whinning, if you'll can't make one decent post... don't even post on this forum!

Take it to PMs and leave the BS off the forums, last warning and not pointing fingers at anyone :rolleyes:

[ColbyDogs]

I think every dog is different. When they are pups I try not to let them go more than 4 hours of crate time, luckily enough we have always been able to come home at lunch and allow the pup out and take care of business before they go back in.

When they get older they can handle being crated longer so they stay in the crate for 6-8 hours. Normally it is 6 hours cause my sons get out of school and are able to care for them til I get home.

I do not think crates are all that bad, for years we never used crates and I can honestly say that after using them I will never go without them.
Not everyone has the luxury to kennel the dogs in an outdoor set up.

If a dog is going to spend 10-12 hours a day in a crate then I agree that maybe getting a dog at a later time might be more suitable for the dog and the owner.