Ummm... how is this possible?

[poundAPBT]

I don't know too much about breeding, titles, etc.

But I would like to know how some "American Pit Bull Terrier" (American Bully) breeders got a purple ribbon?

i.e. - http://muglestonspitbullfarm.com/females.html

http://muglestonspitbullfarm.com/images/BigMommaMakeda3.jpg

[ABK]

Purple ribbon is not a show designation. It simply means that a certain number of a dog's ancestors have been registered w/ the UKC.

[bahamutt99]

What ABK said. 'PR' isn't really something that matters when it comes to the quality of dogs. Its just a registration formality. (And something that amateurs throw around to impress others. LOL) Terra, for example, is not 'PR', but that doesn't mean for one second she's of lesser quality than my two 'PR' dogs.

[frenchie1936]

I don't know too much about breeding, titles, etc.

But I would like to know how some "American Pit Bull Terrier" (American Bully) breeders got a purple ribbon?

i.e. - http://muglestonspitbullfarm.com/females.html

http://muglestonspitbullfarm.com/images/BigMommaMakeda3.jpg




that's the cutest damn lil piggy i ever did see :D

[poundAPBT]

Ah, alright, somewhere I read that Purple Ribbon means at least 8 generations of "champion" dogs. It was probably from an ambully site... I shouldn't of trusted it.


But still, with ambullies, obviously they're mixed. Are their pedigrees just a bunch of BS?

[Chef-Kergin]

But still, with ambullies, obviously they're mixed. Are their pedigrees just a bunch of BS?

use the search function on this site.

you'll save yourself and everyone a bunch of time getting riled up.

[ABK]

Here is an explanation of PR direct from the UKC's website:

Purple Ribbon: "Purple Ribbon" is a distinction UKC gives to a dog if all 14 ancestors within a dog's three generation pedigree (parents, grand parents, great grandparents) are each registered with United Kennel Club.

Purple Ribbon is indicated by the letters “PR” at the beginning of a dog’s name and also by a comma (,) instead of a dash (-) within the dog’s UKC number. For example: a dog named 'PR'Smith’s Spot with UKC # U100,000 is Purple Ribbon but Johnson’s Duke (P200-000) is not Purple Ribbon.

In order to receive a complete Seven Generation pedigree (showing 254 ancestors), the dog’s parents must both be registered as Purple Ribbon. A Six Generation pedigree for the dog that was not produced by Purple Ribbon parents may have some “Open” entries depending on the availability of pedigree information on record with UKC.

UKC will automatically add the letters 'PR' to the beginning of the dog's registered name and the 'PR' will not count toward the 30 characters and spaces limitation for the allowable length of the dog's registered name.

[oldtimebullylove]

Very good posts ABK. To add to the above as well. UKC tends to allow dogs of which are considered APBT's but as you can clearly see are not. The APBT does not look like the picture that is/you posted. But a lot of the people that do not know any better, will fall head over heels in love with that dog because of it's "PR" status. What a shame.

[purplepig]

Slip soc sol wue aposdo ffne sdedf sllelfmdo
fwoefo'
sadfnasd;fas;f;j

[oldtimebullylove]

Slip soc sol wue aposdo ffne sdedf sllelfmdo
fwoefo'
sadfnasd;fas;f;j

May I ask "what does that mean"?

[purplepig]

I had my foreign language tool bar turned on. It was typing in tongues!!

Please excuse me

[bahamutt99]

UKC tends to allow dogs of which are considered APBT's but as you can clearly see are not.

Let us be fair. There are also bullies in the ADBA, and standard dogs in the UKC. Registry does not designate the quality of the dog. ;)

[ColbyDogs]

Ah, alright, somewhere I read that Purple Ribbon means at least 8 generations of "champion" dogs. It was probably from an ambully site... I shouldn't of trusted it.


But still, with ambullies, obviously they're mixed. Are their pedigrees just a bunch of BS?

There are a few schools of thought on this subject, people have gone round and round debating if they are pure or not. I look at in a simple form, regardless of if they were mixed or not that particular style of dog cannot perform any real athletic task and should not be compared to its ancestors due to thier night & day abilities.

[brat pack]

I was told it is easy to hang papers on a dog. All you have to do is get it registered with say the CKC, then go from there. I know there are inspectors, I think that is what they are called, which are usually judges that can evaluate the dog and register it with the UKC if they think it meets the standard. Who knows, I aint saying this happens, but a couple of bills might help it meet the standard to the wrong person and then you have a UKC registered dog. Not sure how the ADBA works. I don't think they are that easy. Again, I don't know. But it sure makes you think about it when you have dogs registered with the UKC as I do and then they are registering those bullies and calling them the same as my dogs. Which I am sure some ADBA people are offended that I call my "show stuff" apbts. Oh yeah and don't forget the pitterstaffs (pits mixed with amstaffs) that show against us in the ring. My dogs don't look like them. When someone says they don't look different, I know they don't really know what they are talking about. Every now and then, I run across a person ringside that tells me I had the only true apbt in the ring. The rest of the dogs scream staff to them.
But the best part yet is that BSL doesn't discriminate. They are all pit bulls and, according to them, deserve to die.

[bahamutt99]

As far as the UKC goes, I'm pretty sure they only do the inspections for those dogs single-registering from another org. they recognize, like the AKC or ADBA. They don't recognize CKC papers (assuming you're talking about the Crap... errr Continental Kennel Club). As far as I'm concerned, all CKC, APBR, etc., papers are hung, since they're based in registries that don't discriminate at all.

From what I've heard, folks can easily hang papers by saying such-and-such dog whelped 10 puppies when in fact there were only 6, and selling the remaining registration slips to anybody who wants them.

[oldtimebullylove]

Let us be fair. There are also bullies in the ADBA, and standard dogs in the UKC. Registry does not designate the quality of the dog. ;)
This is very true. But you must admit that when you see those dogs, you can almost bet they are UKC registered, and less than half are dual registered with ADBA/AADR! ;)

[ARAPBT]

I have seen more junk bully crap registered with the ADBA than the UKC. Dave Wilson and the Razor's Edge crap started with the ADBA and then registered with the UKC as well.

[bahamutt99]

I have seen more junk bully crap registered with the ADBA than the UKC. Dave Wilson and the Razor's Edge crap started with the ADBA and then registered with the UKC as well.

Don't forget the Whopper dogs. They originated with the ADBA, too.

[ARAPBT]

I can't stand when some idiot says "I gotz me purple ribbon bloodline" There is no such thing!
Yeah, the majority of bully crap I have seen is ADBA registered. A lot of it has to do with the weight pull people as well wanting bigger and bigger dogs for the most weight pulled title, but the main thing came from the big blue Razor's Edge, Greyline, Gotty crap. At least they started their own ABKC show now and are not calling them pit bulls.
I think you will see the bigger conformation dogs at more UKC SHOWS than at ADBA SHOWS but no registry is immune to junk, mixed breeds, or paper hanging in general.
Now I will say that the UKC breed type has gone to crap since people win in the UKC conf ring with everything from 35lb game dogs to 85 lb bully crap in one single show. Mostly because the UKC has changed their standard a dozen times over the years and now has the anything goes policy as far as registering. A UKC judge told me that they are supposedly shutting down the single registering policy and that dogs are only going to be allowed a performance registration number to only compete in events such as weight pull, agility, OB, etc. The UKC is slowly turning into the AKC 2.0 version in my opinion. The majority of what is winning is Amstaff type dogs and a blend POS. I don't really mind the blends as long as the dogs are standard size, have balance, and still have heat/attitude to them, but witnessing 85lb fat lazy dogs win CH classes that are afraid of their own shadows are ridiculous. The judging is the worst. The UKC has such a variety of judges like AKC amstaff judges now and that is really getting ridiculous. I had a judge tell me my 50lb bitch(UKC weight) is small and another say she is "gamey". LOL What does that mean? WTF? Last I checked 50lbs is the biggest a bitch should get. Now I'm not saying all amstaffs or pittorstaffs are one way or the other. There are several dogs in the UKC top 10 that have some dual registered amstaffs in their peds that are game to the bone. I know one POS that has "accidentally" ended at least 6 or 7 dogs in yard accidents. I know a 38lb bitch registered as both UKC and AKC that has ended 2 dogs in a yard accident. I kept this bitch for a short time and she was one of the gamest dogs I've seen. But I will say the majority of the UKC dogs are more amstaff than pit bull when you get up in the CH and GRCH classes. You can pretty much put a CH title on anything in the UKC nowdays but getting the Grand title is difficult with a more true to type/standard as far as the origional APBT goes. Its really a matter of researching the judges and weeding out the judges that could care less about this breed. What I like about the ADBA shows is that its APBT's only so the judges should have several decades of hands on experience in the breed. The UKC confuses me how a lady that has devoted her life to poodles has the right to judge APBT's. There is no way a person can be an expert on over 200 breeds. I think that is lame.
Back to the topic..........bullies and other crap is registered in AKC, UKC, and ADBA.
Anyway, just my opinion.

[NavasInc]

What ABK said. 'PR' isn't really something that matters when it comes to the quality of dogs. Its just a registration formality. (And something that amateurs throw around to impress others. LOL) Terra, for example, is not 'PR', but that doesn't mean for one second she's of lesser quality than my two 'PR' dogs.

True!5 years ago a breeder did that to me. They threw the word "Purple Ribbon" around like it meant something special. It means excatly what was quoted above actually. But hey you live and you learn!! I agree as well though that it doesnt mean for one second that the dog is of lesser quality ethier

[bahamutt99]

The UKC confuses me how a lady that has devoted her life to poodles has the right to judge APBT's.

I do believe that the APBT is one of the 3 breeds that people have to apprentice under an experienced judge to be able to judge.

[ARAPBT]

I do believe that the APBT is one of the 3 breeds that people have to apprentice under an older judge to be able to judge.


Yes, but does this mean they could give 2 craps about APBT's? I heard a judge says she first picks the biggest dog because "that is what she likes" What she likes shouldn't matter, they are supposed to be judging the dogs based on the standard. Yes this is true about the apprenticing but do you realize what is involved in apprenticing? Its a joke just like UKC's test to be a judge which is a take home test. LOL
There are very few judges that can quote the breed standard. Do you know how many judges I've talked to that have badly misquoted the standard? I had a judge tell me that a pit bulls bite is not important even though the standard specifically says that a rye mouth is a major fault and an overshot or undershot is a minor fault. I also questioned a judge about picking a dog that was so afraid of everything that it nearly bit two people at a show, pissed on itself when the judge try to go over it, and had to be carried out of the ring. Evidentally the pit bulls human friendliness is not that important either anymore or its outgoing personality for that matter. Another male judge said that a pit bull's movement AKA trotting around a show ring, is whats most important to him. He wants to see "elegant" movement. LOL He's also an AKC judge in which his breed of choice is Afghan Hounds. I could go on and on but you get the point.

[bahamutt99]

Believe it or not, I agree with you. A judge told my husband that his dog's off bite was a DQ by the standard, when it obviously is not. (A fault yes, but not nearly a DQ.) The next judge that day liked the same dog well enough to give him Best Male. At the last show I was at, one judge put up a very timid female pup over my girl, simply because she had nicer type. In the puppy classes, I think a lot should hinge on temperament, and my girl was having a great time, gaiting with her head and tail up.

I agree that not all judges are going to really know every breed they're judging. But until more knowledgeable people go out for their judge's license, we're assed out. I'd love to get my judging license, but I'm not yet comfortable with all the finer points of our breed's standard, let alone allllll the other breeds that could be in a UKC show. (And as a horrible UKC enthusiast, I'm sure nobody would want to show under me in the ADBA. LOL!) Unfortunately, when you're dealing with all-breed registries, you're going to have to count on the judge knowing, well, all breeds. I'm sure other breed fanciers have the same complaints, about the judge not really knowing their breed.

I think the main thing I'm getting at is that its not just a UKC phenomenon. There are subjective opinions, and then there are folks who flat-out have a lack of breed knowledge. Bad judges span all registries, even those that only encompass one breed.

[coolhandjean]

I think the main thing I'm getting at is that its not just a UKC phenomenon. There are subjective opinions, and then there are folks who flat-out have a lack of breed knowledge. Bad judges span all registries, even those that only encompass one breed.

I know what you mean. I was at an AADR show and the Judge picked a man biter for the ribbon, the Judge was almost bite, and a dog with a gay tail got a ribbon. There are some poor calls in every registry show.

[ARAPBT]

Believe it or not, I agree with you. A judge told my husband that his dog's off bite was a DQ by the standard, when it obviously is not. (A fault yes, but not nearly a DQ.) The next judge that day liked the same dog well enough to give him Best Male. At the last show I was at, one judge put up a very timid female pup over my girl, simply because she had nicer type. In the puppy classes, I think a lot should hinge on temperament, and my girl was having a great time, gaiting with her head and tail up.

I agree that not all judges are going to really know every breed they're judging. But until more knowledgeable people go out for their judge's license, we're assed out. I'd love to get my judging license, but I'm not yet comfortable with all the finer points of our breed's standard, let alone allllll the other breeds that could be in a UKC show. (And as a horrible UKC enthusiast, I'm sure nobody would want to show under me in the ADBA. LOL!) Unfortunately, when you're dealing with all-breed registries, you're going to have to count on the judge knowing, well, all breeds. I'm sure other breed fanciers have the same complaints, about the judge not really knowing their breed.

I think the main thing I'm getting at is that its not just a UKC phenomenon. There are subjective opinions, and then there are folks who flat-out have a lack of breed knowledge. Bad judges span all registries, even those that only encompass one breed.


Yeah I'm sure there are idiots in every registry but I still feel like I'm getting a better shot at a specialty or a single breed registry show than a multibreed show.
The only DQ's in UKC are:Unilateral or bilateral cryptorchid. Viciousness or extreme shyness. Unilateral or bilateral deafness. Bobbed tail. Albinism. Merle. Long coat.
Bites are a complicated subject. Undershot, Overshot, and wry mouth bites are a serious fault. Flush bites are only a minor fault. I think that bites are very important in this breed, especially if you are judging the dogs based on their origional purpose. The dog should be phenomenal in all other areas if it has a serious fault in my opinion. I would not show a dog with a serious fault in the UKC but that is just me.
I have seen your dogs and I really like Priest.

[bahamutt99]

Priest thanks you. :)

[Claddagh_Reds]

I would hate to be a judge any way you look at it. Someone is always going to disagree with what they choose.

[ARAPBT]

I could care less as long as I am judging based on the breed standard. The UKC judges book also states that a judge is required to give you an explanation on why or why not your dog was chosen if you request it. There are a few really good Old school judges out there that will take the time and break down each dog and explain their picks.

[bahamutt99]

JD McNutt (UKC judge) judged both of our youngins, and gave a brief explanation as to why he didn't pick them. I may not have agreed with his pickin's, but it was nice to have a judge offer up a reason, without being asked.

[brat pack]

When a judge explains their choices in the ring before they award the ribbons I really like that. At least you feel like you are getting your monies worth. I have said it before, we need knowledgeable people like Lindsey and arapbt out there judging so we can make a difference and put up the true apbts for the winners they really are. I would like to be a judge but don't have the breeding experience. Have had apbts a long time but only bred one litter 15 years or so ago. Since that is a requirement, I am screwed.

[ARAPBT]

LOL. Yeah JD always does that which I do like. He is fairly consistent as long as it is all guys in the ring. He puts a lot of stock into "show ring movement" which I don't really agree with. Now if there is a young 20 something year old girl in the ring it really doesn't matter what kind of dog they have. I've seen him put up an 85lb bully looking dog that was big enough to ride! LOL

[bahamutt99]

BP, I don't have any breeding experience, except for some BYB litters as a teenager. I've got a ways to go before I can claim enough experience to judge for others. It'd be cool, though. Someday. My husband wants to get a UKC weight pull judge license. He's going the safe route. Not too much you can blame on a weight pull judge. LOL

Arapbt, JD basically said that Priest was a pumpkin head, but more nicely. He said his body hadn't caught up to his head. I teased the husband mercilessly about that one. :p

[ARAPBT]

Yeah that really makes no sense because I have seen Priest and I've seen a lot of the dogs that JD has put up and many have bigger heads and bigger bodies. I think a lot of UKC judges aren't used to seeing a dog that is actually in shape, so it gives the appearance that the head is large for its size. Now take that same dog and add 8lbs or so of "extra" weight like most UKC dogs have and its a different story. I've seen JD put up a friend of mines dog named "bully" is 70+lbs conditioned! with a 23" head easily. LOL

[ARAPBT]

But then again JD does a lot of "poly tickin" from what I've seen and been told. Sometimes the handlers are picked, and sometimes its the dogs. Sad but true.

[bahamutt99]

Yeah, that's a good point about dogs being in shape. I started out shoveling food down Priest for the UKC ring, but then just decided I'd show him as he keeps himself naturally, which is pretty fit. Its weird when people stop and praise you for bringing an in-shape dog rather than one who is 10 or more pounds overweight. To give JD credit, maybe he just felt that way because it was the puppy ring. Next show will be in the Jr. category, if we can get our shtuff together in time to go.