american bulldogs

[jones]

are american bulldogs very similiar to pit bulls in temperment. do they have the same crazy drive in all area's of life as apbt's have? are they stubborn as apbt's? how are they as all around pets? it just seems some of them seem to be a bigger version of the apbt as they do have apbt stock in their blood.

[miakoda]

American Bulldogs are true bulldogs. To the AB crowd, they are the true bulldog of yesteryears whereas the APBT crowd tends to believe the APBT was more like the bulldog of yesteryears. But since none of us were alive 400+ years ago, we will never know.


ABs are amazing animals that are quite versatile in what they can do. The main difference in the AB and the APBT is that they were also bred to be guardian-type dogs whereas the APBT was never designed to be such nor bred to be such. And the APBT was bred specifically to be a pit dog for dog fighting whereas the ABwas not.

However, I do want to mention that today's AB is a recreation of what the 2 main founders thought the breed used to be. The APBT was actually used in the creation of the modern day AB.

I'm got a good friend with ABs who competes in high level Schutzhund events with the dogs. I can't even begin to explain how amazing her dogs are.

And we also hunt with several people who use them as catch dogs.

So yes, these dogs are courageous, driven, and full of heart...........when bred well. Just like every breed out there, particularly the bulldog breeds, their are numerous bybs & peddlers doing their damndest to destroy the breed. These dogs are bred for big heads, heavy weights, wide chests (aka bowed out shoulders and elbows), etc. instead of being bred for working ability first and foremost. So shopping for an AB is very similar to shopping for an APBT. For example, I wouldn't touch an AB being sold in the newspaper nor out of the bed of a pick-up truck. And in many cases, to get a true working AB from a reputable owner/breeder who works them like they should, you've got to either know them or know people. They don't just sell indiscriminantly.

[jones]

i like the Allen Scott standard type the best. im wondering if anyone has had experience with this type. im also wondering about the painter/margentina dogs used for fight how are these set apart from the other kinds. are these breeding program dogs the same truely as the so called southern whites?

[amari602]

I have a friend who boasts of her ABs being PA and just recently in AZ the news reported a deadly attack on a little girl by an AB... and since then I've had to correct several people who have asked me if I've heard of the "pit bull" attack :rolleyes: uuuuhm... NOOO!

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/1107DogAttack1107.html

but I myself am not familiar with the breed, can't say I've ever even seen one in person so I can't offer an opinion on them with only 2 sources of information wether it be negative or positive, I can only suggest dealing with a reputable breeder who focuses on breeding for good temperment and who is willing to let you meet both parents of their litter, at the very least I can say I think they are beautiful dogs :)

[jeeperino]

As awesome as an AB seems its still a cur.

[jones]

ive heard these dogs have a hell of a drive

[ABK]

They can. But hard-core APBT ppl still consider them "curs." You might want to consult an AB board to get a more in-depth response to your question.

[jones]

i figured due to their relationship with apbt brood stock it would be relavent and interesting to people on this discussion forum thanks.

[miakoda]

They can. But hard-core APBT ppl still consider them "curs." You might want to consult an AB board to get a more in-depth response to your question.
And?

Although I'm a "hard core" APBT woman, I still find value in other dog breeds and respect them for what they are and what they can do. Sure in APBT terms they are curs, but many of those dogs can do what APBTs cannot or will not.

I own a Rottweiler by choice and a Dogo by choice. And in the future I will probably branch out to the Filas (only though if the person I know ever ends up doing a breeding as her dogs are the true working type and actually work & are not the show type).

But different strokes for different folks I guess.

As for finding an AB board, jones, I can direct you to a few good ones full of working dogs with working owners.

[frenchie1936]

as mia stated they are designed more for protection and gaurdian work than anything else. they do also make good catch dogs as was also stated. but the main focus here should be that every dog has a purpose and if bred properly they will excell at that given task. personally i would not choose to own an AB. and that may just be from a lack of hands on experience, as the only one i ever knew personally was NKC registered and dumb as shit. couldn't teach it to lick it's own arse. and when you take into account the physics of it, a bigger dog tends to tire quicker than a smaller dog of comparable conditioning. i have been told that AB's do make excellent guard dogs and also excell at being all around farm dogs. saw a lot of those growing up. that old saying, there is a breed for everyone.

[ABK]

And?

Although I'm a "hard core" APBT woman, I still find value in other dog breeds and respect them for what they are and what they can do. Sure in APBT terms they are curs, but many of those dogs can do what APBTs cannot or will not. And what?

Most APBT ppl consider ABs curs. You know that is the truth. Others like you & I CAN see the value of different breeds for different jobs. Others do not. But I never said ALL APBT fanciers consider AB curs, I said MOST do, a key word there you seemed to have overlooked.

[Yngwie]

And what?

Most APBT ppl consider ABs curs. You know that is the truth. Others like you & I CAN see the value of different breeds for different jobs. Others do not. But I never said ALL APBT fanciers consider AB curs, I said MOST do, a key word there you seemed to have overlooked.
They might not be game in the box, although im pretty sure theres a good number of AB's who could go 60+mins in the box, especially the ones with more APBT blood in them like the kershner line.

[jeeperino]

They might not be game in the box, although im pretty sure theres a good number of AB's who could go 60+mins in the box, especially the ones with more APBT blood in them like the kershner line.
That statement is FLOODED with ignorance.

[ABK]

jeeprino: Yes it is. But we should try to help the guy learn. :)

Yngwie: ABs to my knowledge were never bred for the box. While some are most certainly DA, I doubt very many are truly game.

The AB's primary job was that of a farm dog. Nowadays they are also used in protection work. Mia could probably tell you more as I think she has owned or knows ppl who own ABs.

As for the Kirshner line, that is not an AB bloodline. That is an APBT line of dogs run by Rod Kirshner. His dogs are heavy Mayfield bred.

[kinggatorpits]

Not to argue but before you tell someone that a line of dogs doesn't exist you should do your homework their is a Kirshner line of AB's wether it's the same guy or not I don't know but their is a bloodline that carries that name. As for AB's in the box I thought that was what the Painter line was for which actually some of those dogs have some of the best known APBT bloodline's in them.

[ABK]

Must be 2 different guys. Can you sent me a link to the Kirshner AB fellow? I tried searching Yahoo & Google but got no hits on him or his dogs. I would like to read about him If I can.

As for the Painter dogs, I have heard they has APBT blood in them, but I never heard they were bred for the pit. What I was told was that the APBT blood was splashed in to bring the dogs back to more working type.

Here is a link I found that was interesting:

http://www.americanbulldog.org/past-breeders.htm


*EDIT - Never mind. I found the info I wanted. I was spelling the guy's name wrong, that's why I wasn't getting any hits.

And you were right. Some Painter dogs were indeed bred for the pit.

I guess you learn something new every day! ;)

Here is the link I came across:

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/american-bulldog-types.html

[kinggatorpits]

There's also a Game Bred AB Club you can check out if your intrested. Those guys are as serious about their AB as any APBT Fancier I've ever met but yea the guys name is Kerschner the founder of that line,I don't know if it's the same person or not but I do believe they share the same name.Also on a side note Lone Oak AB have some nice dogs but they hold the opnion if it's not a "true" johnson AB they could really care less. I've spoke with them on serveral occasions.

[jbh38]

American Bulldogs are great dogs, different from APBT. We have many friends that are bulldog people and we have even had a couple, but they are different. When it comes to training the dogs, there is differences, just differnent personality than a pit bull. Some are very stubborn, hard to read, hard to tell if you are getting through or not.

The people we know breed their dogs first for working ability. Being able to catch is important, many are trained in protection, I know a well trained AB in weight pull is tough to beat, they are strong dogs.

I like Alan Scott's dogs, Alan is a great person, although we don't have his bulldogs, we have his patterdales.

[Yngwie]

jeeprino: Yes it is. But we should try to help the guy learn. :)

Yngwie: ABs to my knowledge were never bred for the box. While some are most certainly DA, I doubt very many are truly game.

The AB's primary job was that of a farm dog. Nowadays they are also used in protection work. Mia could probably tell you more as I think she has owned or knows ppl who own ABs.

As for the Kirshner line, that is not an AB bloodline. That is an APBT line of dogs run by Rod Kirshner. His dogs are heavy Mayfield bred. Thats funny, you were going to help me "learn" and you are the one actually learning something.:)

1. Yes there is a AB bloodline called Kershner.
2. I never said that they were bred for the box.
3. Never said many are game. I just think that there are game ABs, not many, but some.

[Yngwie]

That statement is FLOODED with ignorance.
Is it really?

[ABK]

lol, yes it turns out it was we who were the ones learning today. But that is not a bad thing is it? :p

P.S. I do hope you did not mind my trying to help. When I heard Kershner, I automatically thought of RK. I would have never thought in a million years there was a Kershner in ABs, as that is not a common name.

[Swebulldog]

Well you cant go by type or even lines in ab its so scatter breed, in most cases you cant even go by kennels their are so many shitters in ab no matter what you want your dog to do, however just as mikoda and abk said a well breed working ab is something special and i do feel for a bulldog person that want to get into some pp or sportswork a ab can be a good partner however many breeds are way better suited for the job but ab remind more to me a bulldog in psyche what i mean it´s easier for me to deal whit them and to anticipate what they will do then my dutch shepherd.

I dont hunt pigs or pull but they seem to do just fine catching and pulling.

and i do know of some 1x but i would not call them game...

[Dred Lok Kennels]

American Bulldogs are great dogs, different from APBT. We have many friends that are bulldog people and we have even had a couple, but they are different. When it comes to training the dogs, there is differences, just differnent personality than a pit bull. Some are very stubborn, hard to read, hard to tell if you are getting through or not.

The people we know breed their dogs first for working ability. Being able to catch is important, many are trained in protection, I know a well trained AB in weight pull is tough to beat, they are strong dogs.

I like Alan Scott's dogs, Alan is a great person, although we don't have his bulldogs, we have his patterdales. I would love some info on getting in touch with Mr. Scott?
With Respect, Dred

Would love some info on his Patts.....

[masta of game]

try this link

http://www.dogresources.com/abrkmaster.html

[Swebulldog]

I would love some info on getting in touch with Mr. Scott?
With Respect, Dred

Would love some info on his Patts.....
http://www.owlhollowkennels.com/

[Dred Lok Kennels]

http://www.owlhollowkennels.com/



Thank you, Dred

[jbh38]

that's his kennel.

When I wanted a patterdale and was looking into them, I was really surprised when a friend who has bulldogs and is friends with him gave me his name and number to call for a patterdale.

[jeeperino]

They might not be game in the box, although im pretty sure theres a good number of AB's who could go 60+mins in the box, especially the ones with more APBT blood in them like the kershner line.
I bet finding an AB that will work for 60+ mins and will still scratch is about as likely as winning the lotto. Also, if an AB has APBT blood in them doesnt that make them a mutt?? How could some lines have higher % apbt blood than others and still be considered purebred ABs??

[SPF]

I bet finding an AB that will work for 60+ mins and will still scratch is about as likely as winning the lotto. Also, if an AB has APBT blood in them doesnt that make them a mutt?? How could some lines have higher % apbt blood than others and still be considered purebred ABs??
Exactly what I was thinking..

[BoiBoi]

There was an AB that was matched and gametested hardcore, but i can't for the life of me remember his name, either way he turned out to be 200% game and i believe he produced good ones as well. There where a few dogmen that used these game AB in the fast lane for a while and were coming out on top for a while

[miakoda]

I bet finding an AB that will work for 60+ mins and will still scratch is about as likely as winning the lotto. Also, if an AB has APBT blood in them doesnt that make them a mutt?? How could some lines have higher % apbt blood than others and still be considered purebred ABs??
Because the modern day AB is a recreation of what the breed supposedly was like in yesteryears. Many decades of breeding and culling went into "making" these dogs, and they weren't a recognized breed until 1999 (I believe...maybe 1997) when the UKC started to recognize them.

The most commonly heard of strains were created by Johnson and Scott (last names), although there are several more out there and numerous hybrids. However, each strain is extremely consistent in the dogs they produce thus they have acheived breed status.

(Remember, these dogs were being bred in the early 1900's so just because people didn't quite hear of them doesn't mean they didn't exist and yes they used APBT blood in them as the APBT is an older breed than the AB)

[Swebulldog]

ab have a 7/8 rule to be consider "purebreed". and i have yet to see some recent good crosses but what do you expect when one of the "high" ranked ab guys mixes his stock whit Boudreaux stockto get a black ab. And the explanation is the killer its because in his work as a farmer he had noted that the black Angus was the best cow so black dogs must be superior.

Boiboi
Is that confirmed?

[jones]

i think a lot of these dogs are genetic mutants but some seem to very fine indeed. as far as some strains gameness ive heard of these dogs making their way into the box. but i feel as though these are just half pit bulls.

[jones]

is it common for american bulldog breeders to have patterdales seems like an odd combo ive seen with a few of these breeders

[BoiBoi]

Boiboi
Is that confirmed?
Well i'm still searching for the bulldog i was referring to, i can't for the life of me find him, but i'm 100% sure that someone showed me the reports and i believe he went twice and was GIS and BIS in possibly both of them. Oh and he was pure AB, and trust me he looked like a pure UGLY AB, he wasn't pretty to look at but he got the job done

[jones]

its konfederate kennels home of the first so called black american bulldog, sell patterdales to what a coincidence.

[Swebulldog]

jones

Hehe well have have you ever tried to send a ab down a vermin hole? They are hunters and need different breeds for different needs as you might notice they often run coon or curs too but i really like patterdales and they are really cool dogs gritty little bastards they se some hard action down in those holes.
And believe me you can find phenomenal dogs in the ab family but they are rare.

[SPF]

Well i'm still searching for the bulldog i was referring to, i can't for the life of me find him, but i'm 100% sure that someone showed me the reports and i believe he went twice and was GIS and BIS in possibly both of them. Oh and he was pure AB, and trust me he looked like a pure UGLY AB, he wasn't pretty to look at but he got the job done
Where did you see these reports?.

[jones]

well ya gotta be one tuff little bastard to scratch at a badger hole i know you aint gonna see me next to one

[SPF]

There was an AB that was matched and gametested hardcore, but i can't for the life of me remember his name, either way he turned out to be 200% game and i believe he produced good ones as well. There where a few dogmen that used these game AB in the fast lane for a while and were coming out on top for a while
In what general region of the country are we talking about?.Who were these dogmen that were running these dogs in the fast lane?.If they really were being shown in open competition than Im sure at least a few prominent knls have heard of them..Not saying that you are lying,but I personally find this hard to believe..

[BoiBoi]

In what general region of the country are we talking about?.Who were these dogmen that were running these dogs in the fast lane?.If they really were being shown in open competition than Im sure at least a few prominent knls have heard of them..Not saying that you are lying,but I personally find this hard to believe..
man thats the problem, i can't find a single thing about him, it was a few years ago that i read the info about this bulldog, but i can't remember damn near anything about, still trying to figure out his name, oh and there was a photo of him online also, now ofcourse nobody has to believe me because i don't have proof (right now) i'm just putting it out there that i've heard of one

[SPF]

You probably did read about some of this,but how much of this is the truth,and how much is it the authors imagination?.Ya know what Im saying..Please post anything you find pertaining to these gamebred american bulldogs..

[BoiBoi]

You probably did read about some of this,but how much of this is the truth,and how much is it the authors imagination?.Ya know what Im saying..Please post anything you find pertaining to these gamebred american bulldogs..
yea i hear ya, well im still searching but when i come up with something ill be sure to post it

[kinggatorpits]

Just to add as I stated previously check out the Game Bred AB Club..There's tons of kennels that have "game-bred" AB. Most I've seen are the Scott Type dogs and crosses. But there's a whole different set of breeding practices that AB breeders use and things that go over well among them that wouldn't go over well in the APBT community.

[jeeperino]

This thread is pretty annoying. I cant beleive that some of you actually think or have been convinced an AB is a game dog. LOL. Dont even mention one being DG.

Most APBT's arent even game dogs and they have been bred for the pit for 100's of years. Pure APBT's that have been bred for gameness for countless generations still produce curs in large numbers. More curs than gamedogs in most cases.

[Yngwie]

This thread is pretty annoying. I cant beleive that some of you actually think or have been convinced an AB is a game dog. LOL. Dont even mention one being DG.

Most APBT's arent even game dogs and they have been bred for the pit for 100's of years. Pure APBT's that have been bred for gameness for countless generations still produce curs in large numbers. More curs than gamedogs in most cases.

Well, ive seen a 120pound Ovcharka go for 50 mins, not saying they are game. But there is hard/rough curs in other breeds than the apbt, so deal with it.

[jeeperino]

50 mins aint shit

[Yngwie]

50 mins aint shit
For a breed that heavy and not bred for the box i'd say thats pretty good.

[kinggatorpits]

I never said I think their game bred....But there are kennels that claim they have them. As far as that goes I don't hold the opnion that there's to many game bred APBT around today was the point in breeding a dog for the box nowadays when it will never see one....It's like breeding coon dogs and never letting them hunt IMO.

[jeeperino]

I never said I think their game bred....But there are kennels that claim they have them. As far as that goes I don't hold the opnion that there's to many game bred APBT around today was the point in breeding a dog for the box nowadays when it will never see one....It's like breeding coon dogs and never letting them hunt IMO.
Thats why only purists should breed APBT's. People that actually do work their dog the way it was intended.

[miakoda]

This thread is pretty annoying. I cant beleive that some of you actually think or have been convinced an AB is a game dog. LOL. Dont even mention one being DG.

Most APBT's arent even game dogs and they have been bred for the pit for 100's of years. Pure APBT's that have been bred for gameness for countless generations still produce curs in large numbers. More curs than gamedogs in most cases.
That's not what I'm doing nor is it my intention. And you are right that the vast majority of gamebred APBTs are not "game" dogs themselves. All dogs can fight and most dogs will fight. Fighting does not equal gameness.

I'm just trying to put some info out there about AB's and their use as working jobs, whether it be as catch dogs, Schutzhund dogs, or guardians of the family farm. These dogs, when bred right and for the proper reasons, are amazing dogs. Are they APBTs? Nope. And they were never meant to be so.

[jeeperino]

Mia, point taken and understood. My annoyance wasnt directed at facts regarding the breed, it was the speculation that they were game animals or were considered a fighting breed.

[jones]

a buddy of mine raises these dogs. most of his dogs are laaaaaaaaazy. the ones with more apbt blood present however seem to have more of a drive than those that look like an oversize english bulldog. however you got one of these big guys being nasty to someone robbing your house you got a hell of dog imho.

[Swebulldog]

Thats why only purists should breed APBT's. People that actually do work their dog the way it was intended.
That goes for every dog breed.

Jones konfederate wasn't the first to breed black abs john e lichardt invented that stuff, (his words not mine) konfederate needed to clean up his dogs he used to hate colour in ab, jel sold off his black abs on some other guys since he wasnt satisfied whit it, some ones trash is another mans gold i guess.

[jones]

the fine people at confederate kennels claim to have the first black american bulldog

[jbh38]

bulldogs aren't supposed to be all black, the standard says there is supposed to be a certain percentage of the coat that is white. That is a big fuss among many of the bulldog people I know.

There are some really good bulldog breeders out there, the ones that I know breed for working first. They believe that a bulldog needs to do what it was bred for - which is catching hogs, mainly - but they breed for all around ability.

I know I have been to NKC shows with all the bulldogs and it is a completely different atmosphere than the ADBA or UKC shows. They have so many competitions besides the conformation and weight pull. They have driviest puppy, tug of war, races, always the protection tournaments there too. I forget what it is called but they have like an Iron dog competition where there is a group of dogs competing in multiple events for a title. They are actually a lot of fun, lots of good people, way more laid back than a Pit Bull show, but then, if we got our dogs out there for some of these competitions, people would think we were doing bad things with our dogs :( It sucks that because of public perception, we don't get to really show everyone that Pit Bulls are just as well balanced and versatile as other breeds.

I don't know who started the thread, but if anyone wants to get in touch with a few good breeders for bulldogs, let me know, I can point you in a few directions. I love a good bulldog, I just can't seem to get a handle on reading them. I will stay with my pit bulls, but always admire a hard working bulldog.

[SPF]

When I first got involved with this breed(apbt) I was fascinated with the origin of such a wonderful animal,and I would read any & everything that concerned the importation of dogs from England & Ireland..Still to this day I read any & everything I can about bulldogs,but my desire to "look far into the past" has diminished greatly..People that talk about dogs from decades past like they have a influence in the way "their dog" acts really make me chuckle..(This really has nothing to do with American Bulldogs but its what I was thinking at he moment..)

Dogs like the English BULLDOG,French BULLDOG,American BULLDOG,Olde English BULLDOG,Alapaha BULLDOG are ALL imposters..The only TRUE BULLDOG blood runs in the veins of the American Pitbull Terrier..And I am not talking about the the APBT that proves himself by passing obidience class or fetching the paper..

Also like someone already mentioned,alot of the American Bulldog lines are being crossed with APBT lines..Why would someone "pollute" their cherished "bulldog of old" blood(AB) with anything other than bulldog blood?.I know for certain I wouldnt even for half a second consider breeding one of my bulldogs to a American BULLDOG..

[cain0main]

I am an owner of both but my AB is only about 5 months old though. I disagree that crossing my AB with my APBT would pollute either. Actually I can't wait until she has her first heat so I can mate her(AB) with my male(APBT), anyone interrested in a pup? OK...IT WAS A JOKE!!

On a serious not, I got my AB as a home guardian in mind. I did not want to train either of my APBT's for that task. As far as what is a better dog, it is still too early to tell. My APBT's are part of a great breed and show characteristics of the dogs of old. My AB has been barking at strangers for about 2 months now, something that neither of my APBT's ever did, so I do see a difference in that respect.
*****Please don't get upset about to breeding part of my post, it was a joke******

[Swebulldog]

jones read the ped there dog came down from lichardt black betty what don says is that he has the first black ab champion.
Spf they breed to bulldogs because they got shit dogs and needs too clean it up, I dont mind the dogs being black but i dont like how they got their black colour. And they change the standard so people could show black abs, just another reason to hate dogshows. don himself send out a brindle ab at show in the 90 for to much colour. but the drive, nerves, temp and structure is what matters and i dont feel they got that and if some got it i know what shit that lays behind it and how that will pan out in further breeding's.

the shows are a good time dont expect to much from the pp work though i cant stress enough the importance of a good trainer and helpers when dabbling in pp or sport work...

[miakoda]

When I first got involved with this breed(apbt) I was fascinated with the origin of such a wonderful animal,and I would read any & everything that concerned the importation of dogs from England & Ireland..Still to this day I read any & everything I can about bulldogs,but my desire to "look far into the past" has diminished greatly..People that talk about dogs from decades past like they have a influence in the way "their dog" acts really make me chuckle..(This really has nothing to do with American Bulldogs but its what I was thinking at he moment..)

Dogs like the English BULLDOG,French BULLDOG,American BULLDOG,Olde English BULLDOG,Alapaha BULLDOG are ALL imposters..The only TRUE BULLDOG blood runs in the veins of the American Pitbull Terrier..And I am not talking about the the APBT that proves himself by passing obidience class or fetching the paper..

Also like someone already mentioned,alot of the American Bulldog lines are being crossed with APBT lines..Why would someone "pollute" their cherished "bulldog of old" blood(AB) with anything other than bulldog blood?.I know for certain I wouldnt even for half a second consider breeding one of my bulldogs to a American BULLDOG..
I hate to burst your bubble, but the bood of the bulldog from yesteryears runs in the veins of ALL bulldogs breeds, not just ours. I'm not sure where you are getting your historical info from, but what you are saying is that the old bulldog converted to the APBT which then converted into all the other bulldog breeds. And that's just not right. It's like saying the Moloss of yesteryears only runs through the veins of the English Mastiff and not all the other mastiff breeds out there (& spinoffs including the Rottweiler & such).

As for breeding ABs to APBTs, it creates nothing more than a mutt as both are seperate and dinstinct breeds. However, people do it all the time to get larger dogs they then peddle as "pit bulls." So I'm glad you wouldn't consider it. It would be the equivalent of breeding your APBT to an EB or even the Standard Poodle for that matter.

[SPF]

I hate to burst your bubble, but the bood of the bulldog from yesteryears runs in the veins of ALL bulldogs breeds, not just ours. I'm not sure where you are getting your historical info from, but what you are saying is that the old bulldog converted to the APBT which then converted into all the other bulldog breeds. And that's just not right. It's like saying the Moloss of yesteryears only runs through the veins of the English Mastiff and not all the other mastiff breeds out there (& spinoffs including the Rottweiler & such).

As for breeding ABs to APBTs, it creates nothing more than a mutt as both are seperate and dinstinct breeds. However, people do it all the time to get larger dogs they then peddle as "pit bulls." So I'm glad you wouldn't consider it. It would be the equivalent of breeding your APBT to an EB or even the Standard Poodle for that matter.The APBT is the only true bulldog in existence..PERIOD..I, as well as many prolific authors think that the APBT IS the bulldog of old,without any outcrosses to different breeds.
As far as bursting my bubble..I would bet my bottom dollar my dear that I have read EVERYTHING that you have read and then some concerning the ancestory of the APBT..
No one really knows the origin of the "Bulldog" as there just werent any records kept back then(or at least they were never made public),so your opinion on what blood runs thru ALL the bully breeds is just that,your opinion and in MY opinion it has no merit..
As I have already stated I really dont have the interest that I once did when it comes to where the APBT came from,and dogs that lived 100yrs ago so I would prefer not to debate this topic..

[miakoda]

The APBT is the only true bulldog in existence..PERIOD..I, as well as many prolific authors think that the APBT IS the bulldog of old,without any outcrosses to different breeds.
As far as bursting my bubble..I would bet my bottom dollar my dear that I have read EVERYTHING that you have read and then some concerning the ancestory of the APBT..
No one really knows the origin of the "Bulldog" as there just werent any records kept back then(or at least they were never made public),so your opinion on what blood runs thru ALL the bully breeds is just that,your opinion and in MY opinion it has no merit..
As I have already stated I really dont have the interest that I once did when it comes to where the APBT came from,and dogs that lived 100yrs ago so I would prefer not to debate this topic..
Unless you're over 300 years old, you don't know for "fact."

So I respect your opinion.

[SPF]

Unless you're over 300 years old, you don't know for "fact."

So I respect your opinion.
Yes,you are correct and I respect yours as well..

[ROSE]

Not to argue but before you tell someone that a line of dogs doesn't exist you should do your homework their is a Kirshner line of AB's wether it's the same guy or not I don't know but their is a bloodline that carries that name. As for AB's in the box I thought that was what the Painter line was for which actually some of those dogs have some of the best known APBT bloodline's in them. R.Kershner did at one time before he got into the Mayfield dogs bred and kept thE AB'S.as a matter of fact he had some of joe's blood along with the johnson stock, huge dogs very strong.If im not mistaken there was a photo of Syl/Stallone with a AB that he had purchased from joe years ago.

[jones]

what about these painter dogs our margentina dogs have ab's been bred game i donno

[Boze]

This thread is pretty annoying. I cant beleive that some of you actually think or have been convinced an AB is a game dog. LOL. Dont even mention one being DG.

Most APBT's arent even game dogs and they have been bred for the pit for 100's of years. Pure APBT's that have been bred for gameness for countless generations still produce curs in large numbers. More curs than gamedogs in most cases.
great post. although i do like AB i just think they compare to APBT, and like you said APBT have been bred specifically for gameness for 100s of years and still throw curs .