need help

[jones]

it seems hard to find a well respected kennel in upstate new york. i would appreciate any information regarding this. im looking for a well bred black coloured female and it just isnt happening. im affraid my male will be old by the time i find something . thank you all.

[Marty]

Re read your post again amd you'll see why you got the response you did... I'm looking for a black coloured female and it just isn't happening. I'm afraid my male will be a year old by the time i find something first off your looking for a certain colored dog (don't breed for color alone) second of all your saying your going to breed your dog at 1 yr old ( that's not a good thing ) would you let your 7 yr old child have kids? I don't think so :(

[jones]

no due respect mr.marty if i want a certain coloured dog because it appeals to my eye and my eyes alone what is the problem with that. where in that post does it say that im going to breed my dog at a year old. it states my puppy will be a year by the time i find a companion for him. sorry for the confusion. but sometimes people on here assume way to much, and just attack people using their little insults usually consisting of a four letter word or retard. i wonder how these people treat their dogs.

[SMOKIN HEMI]

no due respect mr.marty if i want a certain coloured dog because it appeals to my eye and my eyes alone what is the problem with that. where in that post does it say that im going to breed my dog at a year old. it states my puppy will be a year by the time i find a companion for him. sorry for the confusion. but sometimes people on here assume way to much, and just attack people using their little insults usually consisting of a four letter word or retard. i wonder how these people treat their dogs.

You are going to be breeding a dog that is too young, first of all. We preach all the time about you do not breed for color. For gameness not for color. The pound is full of APBT as it is. Don't need a whole litter of black dogs in the pound. It is just as bad trying to breed blue dogs.....

[jones]

i dont know if you fail to read my posts because you think im stupid or something. I AM NOT GOING TO BREED MY DOGS AT A YEAR I MAY NEVER BREED THEM AT ALL I AM LOOKING FOR A BLACK FEMALE BECAUSE I THINK THAT IS A NICE COLOUR I DO NOT CARE ABOUT BREEDING SORRY IF YOU JUMP TO THAT CONCLUSION OK. my male needs a companion im looking for a black one plain and simple. oh and if i had a litter it sure as hell wouldnt end up in the pound. I guess since i get so much grief here i will just continue my search solo this has so benefit for anybody and this thread should be closed.

[Marty]

Whats wrong with you being the dogs companion? these dogs are Animal aggressive, and do not need/want a companion... they thrive on human affection not another dog.

If I was wrong with your post, I apologise :(

[jones]

a dog is what you make of it. animal agressive or not. a companion is just another stride at socialization. and i dont know about you but seeing two americans play just shows the rest of the world that my dogs behave enough to share each others company,plus its just adorable. i have always had two dogs and plan on keeping it that way.

[SMOKIN HEMI]

No need to be so sensitive, besided the first reply its all love. We work hard for these dogs an take it personal when we think someone is doing something in error. It's not against you but just love for the breed.....

[rosco91382]

im sure you could find a black female at the pound.....if you really need two dogs
Drew

[jones]

i do right by the breed. ive been devoted for a long time now. its not every day i get accused of puppy milling practices you know what im saying?

[jones]

id prefer a puppy with some kind of registration thank you though rosco

[Pitbull219]

I just hope you don't feel too let down when your two loving playful companions decide they wanna lay their teeth into each other. Not saying it's impossible for these dogs to get along with each other, just be prepared to break up fights and don't ever let them interact unsupervised. So, you want a pedigreed dog....are you planning to show them or get into sports like weight pull? If not I would strongly advise that you just get a pet quality dog that looks and acts the way you want and have both your dogs fixed.

[Pipbull]

How long have you been around the breed? It's going to be difficult getting a dog from a reputable APBT breeder if you can't accept the fact or responsibly own a pit bull thinking that there is no possibility that he may be dog aggressive. I'm not just being judgemental here, either, I got my 2 with the same idea in mind. My older male is DA and the other one is not. They can live together peacefully most of the time, but they can NOT be in an excited situation together and they can NOT be left unsupervised together.

As far as the color thing, I don't see a problem with preferring a certain color for a pet. But pets don't need registration, so why does this dog? Do you plan on competing or participating in shows with your dogs?

Also, the first dog, where'd he come from? If you already have a good relationship with his breeder, I'd say that's the best place to look for advice on the topic, especially if they area reputable breeder.

[miakoda]

First, what are your plans for another pup? You mentioned it being registered....do you plan on participating in conformation shows? weight pulls? obedience trials? I'm just trying to get an idea of what you are truly looking for in a dog besides color.

There is nothing wrong with liking a particular color of dog. However, picking out a pup based on color should only be done once you have found the desired litter from an honest, reputable owner/breeder. Color is just an appearance issue. And it's what's on the inside that truly counts. So do some research and find owner/breeders who have the dogs with the characteristics you really want, and then once it's narrowed down to a specific litter, then choose your pup based on color.

However, I am concerned that you seem to be wanting another pup strictly as a playmate for the dog you already own. And no matter the breed, this is not a good idea....but especially for the "pit bull" breeds. Dog aggression (DA) runs strong in these breeds. No, not every dog is DA, but many go a few years before it really kicks in and at that point it's too late to say, "I told you so." You should want a dog to be YOUR companion and not worry about whether or not it can play nice with your other dog. If they get along, great (although NEVER ever ever leave them unattended together....even if you are ust cooking dinner in the other room), but if they don't, so what.

[jones]

ive had 6 dogs to this point never had a serious fight. a pedigreed dog is more likely i do not want to get my dogs fixed. i enjoy adba sponsored events. i dont know what kind of dogs all of you have but mine go everywhere i go and they tend to be well behaved anyway i appreciate all the comments didnt forsee all this buzz. thank you

[jones]

i could go get a dog tomorrow if i wanted to i wanted to spend a little extra on dog this time around. so i was as you say looking for a true kennel. new york state is run down. people that sell these dogs have no pedigree to back up claims for these dogs. i was looking for a large well known kennel in new york state i have looked and looked. im not interested in staffordshire muts, or anything to gangster that most of the big kennels in this state ive found produce. dogs are pack animals, all dogs are trainable, and should be given a chance to get along. i may breed these animals in the future at the proper time which i have done in the past. the breeder i have gotten dogs from in the past that i trust ,he has ferriera dogs, has stopped producing. so really what im looking for here is just what i posted.

[Pipbull]

dogs are pack animals, all dogs are trainable, and should be given a chance to get along. i may breed these animals in the future at the proper time which i have done in the past.

Jeez.......

So.....you're looking for real deal bulldogs. And don't accept that they can be raised in a structured, socialized, and healthy lifestyle and still be dog aggressive. Training is one thing, but genetics is another. Dog aggression is only managable, there is no cure. That's all just Cesar Milan bullpoop.

[ABK]

Oy vey. If I only had a dime for every time I heard this crap.

Dog aggression (DA) can not be trained out of a pit bull. At best it can be managed, but it will never be elminated.

And "raising them right" (gag) isn't going to cut it either. That's nothing but an old wives' tale. I tried that right raising & heavy socialization thing w/ my first few dogs & guess what? When my dogs turned two, I almost ended up w/ four dead dogs b/c they "turned on" & tried to kill each other.

Furthermore, pit bulls are NOT pack animals. Wolves are pack animals. If you want to go domestic, Huskies are pack animals. But pit bulls are NOT pack animals. The desire for a multiple canine pack was bred out of the pit bull LONG time ago.

Finally, any reputable breeder of standard pit bulls is NOT going to sell you a dog b/c they KNOW standard pit bulls should NEVER be bought as a companion for another dog. The pit bull is a breed bred for dog-on-dog combat. As such, they can be highly DA & they have NO desire for a canine pack whatsoever. In fact, most real deal bulldogs HATE other dogs & will try to kill them if given the slightest chance. This is a breed that craves HUMAN companionship (that's you), NOT the companionship of a dog.

JMHO ...

[Virgil dogs]

Dont you guys read the newspapers?Its all about how you ''train'' them.lol.Some dogs can be trained to get along with certain dogs.I've seen grch's that would play with other dogs.It's a gamble but no way imposable.Take the above advice about NEVER leave them unatended.I would be looking more at temprament rather than color.Theres nothing wrong with wanting a certain color dog as your the one that has to look at him for a long time.Pm me as I may be able to hook you up

[TheVictor22]

Oy vey. If I only had a dime for every time I heard this crap.

Dog aggression (DA) can not be trained out of a pit bull. At best it can be managed, but it will never be elminated.

And "raising them right" (gag) isn't going to cut it either. That's nothing but an old wives' tale. I tried that right raising & heavy socialization thing w/ my first few dogs & guess what? When my dogs turned two, I almost ended up a yardful of dead dogs b/c they "turned on" & tried to kill each other.

Furthermore, pit bulls are NOT pack animals. Wolves are pack animals. If you want to go domestic, Huskies are pack animals. But pit bulls are NOT pack animals. The desire for a multiple canine pack was bred out of the pit bull LONG time ago.

Finally, any reputable breeder of standard pit bulls is NOT going to sell you a dog b/c they KNOW standard pit bulls should NEVRER be bought as a companion for another dog. The pit bull is a breed bred for dog-on-dog combat. As such, they can be highly DA & they have NO desire for a canine pack whatsoever. In fact, most real deal bulldogs HATE other dogs & will try to kill them if given the slightest chance. This is a breed that craves HUMAN companionship (that's you), NOT the companionship of a dog.

JMHO ...

I really don't think it can be made much clearer than that.

[jones]

those of you that have mean dogs should consult a dog trainer asap imho.americans are bred to listen to their owners period. and i wouldnt leave any dog alone unattended. as you make it sound pit bulls are killing machines what is the sense of having them then? i wouldnt buy a dog from some owner who had to poke his nose into how many dogs i have either. in the end they are just dogs and i think a lot of the people in the community need to get over the media head lines thats why i dont read the paper. thank you.

[amari602]

a dog is what you make of it.
I agree 100%!!! :) more often than not a dog will be what you make of it, and for many years through selective breeding these dogs have been made to be DA!!!!! regardless of their environment at some point instinct will take over and these dogs will show what they are really "made" to be. I have a 14 month old female and a 4 month old who play okay together, but I never leave them unsupervised, they are kenneled at night and while i'm at work and I fully expect the need to have them completely seperated with no contact at some point, I also have a new pup, he is 7 wks old, and is already showing signs of DA, but I expected it as I am not in denial about the true nature of the breed and am fully prepared with room on a yard for tie outs in addition to the kennels, I hope it's something you are also prepared for should you decide to buy a pup and never, ever, ever leave them together unsupervised!

[ABK]

Virgil Dogs: There have been several winning pit dogs through out time who would play w/ other dogs. But it doesn't mean they needed (or wanted!) a constant canine companion to be buddies with!

As for training them to get along w/ other dogs I said it once & I'll say it again - that is pure crap. You can train a dog to be MANAGEABLE around other dogs. But you will never train DA completely out.

Even if a dog APPEARS calm, cool & collected around other dogs - heck even if it plays w/ other dogs - the DA can re-surface at any moment. Trust me, when I was new in this breed I tried many a time to completely train DA out of my dogs w/ no success whatsoever. The best I ever got was for my dogs to tolorate another dog. The DA was never gone, it was just below the surface, ready to appear at any time.

(And before anyone says my training failures were a result of my handling - I already know someone is going to say it & someone is already certainly thinking it - I was taught K9 training skills under our squadron kennel master while in Korea & assisted in training MWDs in the Middle East. So while I am most certainly not a master trainer by any means, I do have a little training knowledge to work with.)

Jones: First of all, they're not "americans." WE are Americans. THEY are American Pit Bull Terriers a.k.a. APBTs a.k.a. pit bulls.

Secondly, just b/c a dog who is bred for DA actually IS DA does not make them "mean." That would be like saying a coonhound running down & killing a coon is "mean" or a beagle running down & killing a rabbit is "mean." They're not mean at all. They're just doing what they were bred to do.

I had a female last year who slipped her collar, chewed out of her kennel & chewed into another female's kennel to kill her. But that didn't make her "mean." In fact, she was one of the sweetest dogs a person could ever meet. She just was highly DA, which competely & totally normal for a pit bull.

As for why someone should keep such a "mean" (lol) dog, ppl keep them b/c they are some of the sweetest, most loyal, hardest working dogs there are. Yes, they can be DA. But so can Feists, German Shepherds, Dobermans, etc. & it doesn't stop ppl from owning them!

And by the way it sounds, you might as well resign yourself to getting some BYB whatsit. Most reputable breeders as I said before, will not sell a dog as companion for another dog & they sure as heck will not sell to someone who will not divulge information. They're probably going to ask about you & your dogs (what you call being nosy). If you tell them it's none of their business, you'll probably just get hung up upon.

IMO, you should just keep that sweet pittie you have & love on him like he wants & leave the canine valhalla idea alone.

[jones]

now this is gonna be an attack on NOMENCLATURE how unbelievable. if you got a dog slipping collars to attack other dogs what a bad respresentative of the breed. seems like someone mite have a lawsuit or a shot dead dog on their hands huh? no doubt about them being a suitable companion to humans.theres enough love in my household for 10. but i dont want a dog i gotta pen up just because another dog is in the yard working. my dogs do work plain and simple. they dont have time to worry about dog fighting. like i said try an animal trainer. no breeder isnt gonna sell you a dog because you have one already and intend on socializing them. how thick headed could that breeder be.

[ABK]

Actually, she was a very CORRECT representative of the breed. DA is normal in this breed. I guess you have never been to an ADBA conformation show have you? A dog is EXPECTED to show intrest in other dogs.

The fact of the matter is, if you take two dogs of comparable physical quality & one is DA while the other is not, the judges will almost always choose the DA dog over the other one, b/c the DA one is considered to have "proper bulldog attitude."

As for lawsuits, that is not a worry of mine. Here is why:

Firstly, my yard is double fenced - a privacy fence outer perimeter w/ chain link inner perimeter & my dogs are on chains inside chain link kennels. So the odds of one getting out of the yard is small.

Secondly, most of my dogs are "real deal" (as you called them) bred bulldogs & if they do get out of their kennels, to leave the yard & go roaming is the last thing on their mind. If they get out off their chain & out of their kennel, 99.9% of the time they're going to pick a fight w/ another bulldog in my yard.

If you don't want a dog you have to pen up or chain up while you other dog is working, get an English Bulldog or something. But a "real deal" bulldog is not for you. Just a bad match all the way around. Odds are you just end up w/ either one or both of your dogs mauled or dead.

As for a dog trainer - why?? Why train out the natural instincts of a dog? I learned long ago that ...

#1: It's futile

#2: It's cruel to the dog

To go back to my previous analogy, one would never put a coon dog bred down from generations of champion coon hunters into a room full of baby coons & expect him to play nice. Why force a dog to go against what it has been bred for?

Why not just get a breed that fits your needs instead of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?

[kinggatorpits]

I do understand the DA factor here as well as DA being "bred in" as some of you say. But a dog like that is a huge risk IMO because no matter what kind of set up you have to contain it will get to another animal it's only a matter of time. I like nothing more than a true game bulldog, and I also understand breeding for "gameness" but what's the point in breeding a litter of pups that are gonna be so hot that they want at everything in sight in today's world. You can get plenty of working ablity out of these dogs without breeding the 2 most DA parents you have or can find.

[jones]

its my chose breed has been for sometime. i guess you dont take your dogs for walks or anything. if you have nothing to worry about and wanna spend your time kenneling and unkenneling dogs to work good for you. maybe they never see outside their kennel i wouldnt know. what i do know is i couldnt afford to have a dog that wasnt properly obedience trained. thanks to the powers of going to obedience classes my dogs in the past have been very passive cant believe it huh?

[ABK]

kinggator:A lot of folks don't breed the most DA dogs they can find. Heck, many females (& some males!) were cold as ice & wouldn't hit a lick, but were still bred & produced awesome dogs. DA is NOT the focus. Gameness is.

jones: Actually, I take my dogs for walks & even take them to visit at friends' houses. We also go to dog shows, weight pulls & I am hoping to have my male test for his CGC this fall.

And just b/c my dogs are DA it doesn't mean they are uncontrollable monsters. Far from it. Almost all of them know obedience commands. This is what allows me to have *some* control over their behaviour. But I know the instinct for DA is still there. I already know it is futile to try to make a tiger into a tabby cat.

[jones]

and yet you have all these da issues? sounds like your gambling with that one

[ABK]

It's not gambling if you know your odds. As I said before, I am not trying to turn a tiger into a tabby cat. I know what my dogs are & handle them accordingly. You can *manage* DA. But you cannot train it out. Big difference. So while my dogs can go to parks, events, etc. I still know the DA can come out so never do I expect them to play nice w/ another dog, let alone be another dog's companion!

[jones]

well this is going nowhere anyone wanna talk about all those fine yankee terrier kennels in upstate new york please thank you i got a real good dog trainer in the family. please dont waste your time with info on bully type kennels.

[ABK]

Maybe a bully is what you need??? They have a lot of the DA bred out. I know you don't like them, but they seem to be a better fit for your lifestyle & at least you won't be being cruel to a fine game bred dog by forcing your warped ideas on him.

JMHO ...

[jones]

i think your dogs slipping collars and all this is dangerous and you should get some advice instead of passing judgement on others but im sure your having a great time keeping the thread off topic and ive asked for this thread to be closed before due to this.

[Bullyson]

Good post. "No 4 legged friends." ;)Oy vey. If I only had a dime for every time I heard this crap.

Dog aggression (DA) can not be trained out of a pit bull. At best it can be managed, but it will never be elminated.

And "raising them right" (gag) isn't going to cut it either. That's nothing but an old wives' tale. I tried that right raising & heavy socialization thing w/ my first few dogs & guess what? When my dogs turned two, I almost ended up a yardful of dead dogs b/c they "turned on" & tried to kill each other.

Furthermore, pit bulls are NOT pack animals. Wolves are pack animals. If you want to go domestic, Huskies are pack animals. But pit bulls are NOT pack animals. The desire for a multiple canine pack was bred out of the pit bull LONG time ago.

Finally, any reputable breeder of standard pit bulls is NOT going to sell you a dog b/c they KNOW standard pit bulls should NEVER be bought as a companion for another dog. The pit bull is a breed bred for dog-on-dog combat. As such, they can be highly DA & they have NO desire for a canine pack whatsoever. In fact, most real deal bulldogs HATE other dogs & will try to kill them if given the slightest chance. This is a breed that craves HUMAN companionship (that's you), NOT the companionship of a dog.

JMHO ...

[Bullyson]

Ok. I'll say it. I think you are in here throwing your weight around like you know what in the hell you're talking about and you truely don't. Thats why you came in and dropped a disclaimer in the "Respect" thread because you knew someone was going to call you out on your bullshit. Well I just did. If you think you're going to get a well bred game dog and have it around another dog after its grown you are a true amature. Telling someone who has forgotten more about this breed than many will ever know that they "need advice" is the lack of respect that I'm talking about. Try and show a little and conversations will tend to be much more pleasant. And thats as politically correct as I can be. YIS, DJ.i think your dogs slipping collars and all this is dangerous and you should get some advice instead of passing judgement on others but im sure your having a great time keeping the thread off topic and ive asked for this thread to be closed before due to this.

[jones]

the respect topic has been a new topic i commented on as many do i have been starting a lot of threads where real discussion could take place instead of some of the nonsense like that topic so i guess im throwing my weight around big deal.i really am not here to consult anyones expert oppinions on dog psychology. if i was i woulda started a thread that said can or cant you have two dogs coexist. if i have questions like this i consult my dog trainer. if you dont like people posting on your threads dont start them. i think you need to calm down a little bit and maybe you mite get some respect

[Marty]

i think your dogs slipping collars and all this is dangerous and you should get some advice instead of passing judgement on others but im sure your having a great time keeping the thread off topic and ive asked for this thread to be closed before due to this.Maybe this will help...

http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3265

And this...

http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3265

If you know how to handle this breed you will have no problems, as was said, I think an Amstaff or Bully would be more suitable for your life style :rolleyes:

[Mott's APBT's]

The APBT has not been your breed of choice as you say.From what i gather from your posts,Your chosen brred is nothing more than a shell of the animal.DA is not an issue its just one the things that makes up this breed. Dog obedience does not change does not change genetics.If you cant handle the facts you might want to look into getting a Bully type dog or a show bred Amstaff.Probably be your best bet.If you have something to say every one is all ears but dont come on here disrespecting the breed!

[jones]

this is probably the most stupid discussion ive ever been involved in close this thread please i regret even trying to consult some of these idiots about dogs. the ignorance here disgusts me, and i hope it doesnt spill over to your dogs. i am not going to let this get to me i hope to have real discussions in the future where people can disagree without being insulted or considered an idiot. maybe this forum isnt suited for discussion at all. maybe in pit bull nazi land you have to think the exact same way as everyone else.

[14rock]

Theres been so many reports and edits in this thread, it's not worth it for the info I've read. Thread Closed.