personel protection

[chbk]

i was sent a e-mail today that stuck a nerve and i do not know why . i was sent some pics of there dog in pp training and i can not understand way someone would put a dog of this breed in pp with all of the heat the apbt is taking. your opions would be nice . am i wrong?

[cheese]

It just seems there are so many breeds that were bred for that kind of work it doesnt make sense. From everything i have learned about the breed it is unnatural so why? Even if you werent concerned with the breeds reputation you could find a better breed.
I think it goes back to where all our problems stem from...everyone has their own ideas of want they want this breed to be and ignore the history

[MinorThreat]

you think PP trained APBT's are running the street biting people? PP trained dogs are where our problems stem from, you really think that?

[chbk]

you think PP trained APBT's are running the street biting people? PP trained dogs are where our problems stem from, you really think that? do you really think its a good idea to train a dogs that is under the eye of the public,as this breed is to bite humans ?i really dont want to see a apbt attacking a human trained to or not. do you??police dogs have even been known to "bite on accident".

[rosco91382]

I think that any dog that is trained for pp in this case with the APBT has to be a well solid rounded dog. Has to be very obedient and has to have an even better owner... Im pretty sure that your pp APBT, German Shep, Dobes, etc... are not the ones running loose in the street daily but things can happen to anyone. As I mentioned the owner of pp dogs has to have control at all times are you have a accident waiting to happen...
.02 Cents
Drew

[Pipbull]

do you really think its a good idea to train a dogs that is under the eye of the public,as this breed is to bite humans ?i really dont want to see a apbt attacking a human trained to or not. do you??police dogs have even been known to "bite on accident".
Just like Minor said....these aren't the dogs running the streets. If someone is going to do serious pp training with a dog, it's not a dog that's going to be let off leash, brought into a dog park, etc. No, I don't think it's a good idea to train a pit bull in pp, but just because it doesn't suit the breed's temp.

[cheese]

you think PP trained APBT's are running the street biting people? PP trained dogs are where our problems stem from, you really think that?No. That is not what i said. I said our problems come from people changing the breed into what they see the breed as.
The way i see it is you should decide what you want in a dog and then find the right breed for you. Not change a breed of dog into what you want;)

edit: No one said anything about any dogs "running the street"

[rosco91382]

I would consider myself new to APBT's and do not know as much history as some but were APBT's trained to pull weight back in the day? Not to throw dirt on anyone who weight pulls with there dogs as I do too but....... wouldn't that be the same as what your talking about?

remember I dont know a lot about the history as I am new to the breed and still learning.
Drew

[MinorThreat]

I dont prefer to see the breed being used for any human protectoin/aggression, I just dont PP training as any of our problems

[koening]

I to don't think the problems of our breed come from PP trained dogs. It's from iresbonsible owners. Some people don't want to change the breed, but the APBT is a versatile breed , that can acomplish a lot of tasks , some of them better than other breeds . A well trained dog is a well all rounded dog , and it's not impredictible , inmy opinion. And i don't think that so many APBT's are used for PP . I intend to train one of my dogs for PP , because i like the breed , I think that there is no other breed as good as the APBT , and I don't think I will have a dog with a bad temperament for this mather .

Also , I see were the OP is going with this. He thinks that the dogs will have a bad image because they are trained to bite people . Many breeds are trained to "attack" people , but keep in mind that this is PERSONAL PROTECTION . The dogs are trained to DEFEND their owners , not to bite anything that moves , like some people think , or "train" their dogs .

Bahamutt said gave an answer that I did not see at a question of mine regardin PP with APBT's . She said that people see a dog as a protector , so it could be a good image for the APBT to defend he's owner .

YIS koening.

[ABK]

IMO the APBT should NOT be trained for PP. Not b/c they would be a danger to anyone, but rather b/c it would only serve to solidify the breed's reputation as a vicious man-biter.

I can see it now ... out in the PP ring. A Rottie does his thing, polite applause. A GSD does his thing, nods of approval. But an APBT does his thing? Nervous whispers of "Did you see how hard he hit that sleeve? I told you that breed was vicious!"

And heaven forbid the APBT not out fast enough or break a stay & excite bite! I can hear it now: "I told you that breed has a blood lust!" or "I heard that breed will never let go!" :rolleyes:

Nope not for me. I even have a dog of my own here who I think would excel at PP, but I don't engage in it b/c I don't want to purpetuate the image of a bloodthristy APBT.

Furthermore as for a PP dog being well rounded, stable, etc. that is not always the case. I have seen many a Malinois that was crazy as the day is long. These dogs were stone cold biters - they'd bite you, me, the handler, it didn't matter. They were anything but well rounded & most certainly were not stable. But they were in PP & not only were they in PP, they excelled in it!

[Tonka03]

I think it is a great idea. I think that it is a great idea. I think that it is a great idea. Why you ask? The fact of the matter is that dog will be doing way more as positive than negitive for the breed. The dog will never loose and just roaming the streets. The dog will have to much invested in it and it will be taken care of properly and show a good side of the breed!!


JMHO!!


Tony

[ABK]

We will have to agree to disagree on this Tonka. IMO there are FAR better ways a dog can provide positive side of the breed. There is ...

- agility
- C.D.
- CGC
- conf. CH.
- dock diving
- draft dog
- flyball
- obed. CH.
- SAR
- therapy dog
- TT
- weight pull

All of these put the APBT in a great light & all of the owners of dogs who participate in this will be responsible owners too, b/c just like PP, none of these sports are easy or cheap. And best of all, none involve an APBT biting a man!

[pennsooner]

I see nothing wrong with bite work within the confines of a overall dog sport like French Ring or Schutzhund.

But real personal protection work is another thing altogether ,IMO. In PP by definition you are working in protection drive. In bite sports with a strong groundwork in obedience you SHOULD be working the dog in prey drive (at least if its a APBT).

[purplepig]

No. That is not what i said. I said our problems come from people changing the breed into what they see the breed as.
The way i see it is you should decide what you want in a dog and then find the right breed for you. Not change a breed of dog into what you want;)

edit: No one said anything about any dogs "running the street"

Well, like it or not, jpcolby, and Joe C. would have told you that their bulldogs worked well for home protection. You ever wondered if maybe in the last several years "people changing the breed into what they see the breed as"? And back in the day, JP was considered, without contestation, a man who put out more game dogs than anyone else in the country. If anyone knew the roots of the dog in this country, it would have been him. Food for thought.

[ABK]

With all due respect, how do any of us here know what any gentleman who is long dead would have said about his dogs?? Last time I looked, the Colby dogs of old were bred to be game dogs, not PP dogs or anything of the like.

And yes, some Colby dogs may have been good home protection dogs. Dogs of that calibre occur in any line. I myself have a dog who is an awesome home protector. But I do not let him operate in that capacity, nor do I encourage it b/c ...

1: I'd be legally liable if he bit someone.

2: I'd just make another headline for the breed, even if it was a legit bite.

[purplepig]

[QUOTE=ABK]With all due respect, how do any of us here know what any gentleman who is long dead would have said about his dogs?? QUOTE]

I happen to have a book written by him back in the 30's, and have old flyers JP had out advertising his dogs, thats how I know what he said.

[ABK]

Might you be able to scan either of these? I'd like to read what he said.

[purplepig]

Might you be able to scan either of these? I'd like to read what he said.

I will as soon as I get moved. I have all of my library boxed up, and I'd have to dig through boxes that are already taped up to find the flyer's and the book. It'll probably be about 2-3 weeks.

[ABK]

Thank you, I look forward to reading it. I will find his comments on the subject most interesting.

[deepsouth]

IMO the APBT should NOT be trained for PP. Not b/c they would be a danger to anyone, but rather b/c it would only serve to solidify the breed's reputation as a vicious man-biter.

I can see it now ... out in the PP ring. A Rottie does his thing, polite applause. A GSD does his thing, nods of approval. But an APBT does his thing? Nervous whispers of "Did you see how hard he hit that sleeve? I told you that breed was vicious!"

And heaven forbid the APBT not out fast enough or break a stay & excite bite! I can hear it now: "I told you that breed has a blood lust!" or "I heard that breed will never let go!" :rolleyes:

Nope not for me. I even have a dog of my own here who I think would excel at PP, but I don't engage in it b/c I don't want to purpetuate the image of a bloodthristy APBT.

Furthermore as for a PP dog being well rounded, stable, etc. that is not always the case. I have seen many a Malinois that was crazy as the day is long. These dogs were stone cold biters - they'd bite you, me, the handler, it didn't matter. They were anything but well rounded & most certainly were not stable. But they were in PP & not only were they in PP, they excelled in it!Excellent post. That's the whole point. Even if someone deserves to have their azz chewed on by a dog, if it's a APBT that's doing it.....then it's always going to be looked on in a negative light. We all know what's going to happen in a court room if the criminal/suspect sues the owner/handler of the APBT......the defense lawyer is going to argue that these dogs have a higher drive and inflict far more damage than any other breed. And all kinds of ridiculous "statistics" are going to be pulled out of thin air....like bite pressure per psi. It's just not a good idea overall, to have gamedogs biting people, it was never meant to be. Not only that.....VERY FEW TRAINERS ARE KNOWLEDGEABLE IN TRAINING APBT IN PROTECTION-MAN WORK. You can ruin a dog real quick if you don't know what you are doing.
Just my honest opinion.

[WWII]

I let "Sue" protect me.