Pat Patrick's yard raided

[shadyridgekennel]

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/archive/local/77369.php

[jadedpitgirl]

You know what I HATE more than anything? The term "rape stand". What a bunch of jack-asses!! And it's no suprise that the HSUS was involved:mad: Go figure; HSUS is just another name for PeTA!
The sad thing is that this will turn out just like FB's did. All dogs will be destroyed before a trial is even thought about, so, no evidence that they were wrong in seizing the dogs.

[Big Game]

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/archive/local/77369.phpIn the artical it says that a breeding stand (called a rape stand by the bunnyhuggers) is used in the training of fighting dogs. It also said that P. Patrick was one of the top 3 BREEDERS of fighting dogs in the country. Since when is it illigal to breed the apbt?? This makes my blood boil. I dont understand how the Humane society considers itself HUMANE!!! What is humane about KILLING 150 healthy dogs. Prioritys in this country are all F**ked up. Animals have more rights than humans. The H.S and peta have america brainwashed. My prayers go out to P.Patrick and his family.

[shadyridgekennel]

yup this country is going down the drain!!! and they think its okay if say a hunting dog has scars on it from the fields ect but god forbid if a bulldog has even 1 on its body then it MUST (:rolleyes: ) a fighter says the treebunnys.
Who knows who will be next.


iam really considering moving out of state to Mexico or something.

[Pipbull]

It also said that P. Patrick was one of the top 3 BREEDERS of fighting dogs in the country. Since when is it illigal to breed the apbt??
That's the illegal part, not the breed.

Crazy stuff, though. I'm hoping the best for the dogs and, like whats was said, they don't go the way of F.B.'s yard...

[Bullyson]

Tic Toc Tic Toc. Ya hear that? Tic Toc Tic Toc. The time is running out. :(

[claymore]

Tic Toc Tic Toc. Ya hear that? Tic Toc Tic Toc. The time is running out. :(
"Prioritys in this country are all F**ked up", couldn't agree more!!

[simms]

The HSUS and thier supporters can (need) go to the devil!

If you dont get it by now folks....its to damn late! This breed isn't for everyone ...OBVIOUSLY! Close the circles!

[Big Game]

I understand what you are saying, But........ If that is the case anyone who ever bred a litter of bulldogs is a felon and anyone who ownes a dog bread by P. Patrick (even a untoutched dog) Is in possesion of a fighting dog. Our breed of choise is the american P-I-T Bull terrier. I guess that makes us all Guilty of owning and/or breeding fighting dogs. Total undeniable undisputable BULLS#IT!!!! ImoThat's the illegal part, not the breed.
Crazy stuff, though. I'm hoping the best for the dogs and, like whats was said, they don't go the way of F.B.'s yard...

[Marty]

Members! this is exactly why we have the rules we do about full names on this site :(

I am so sorry to be reading this... we all know what happens now :(

150 healthy dogs dead :eek:

[ghost 1]

yea but this happens on everything simms,,,, not just dogs,,, we are losing our rights everyday,,,,, everyones gotta quit being a damn sissy and stand up for there stuff or they are gonna take it

[simms]

yea but this happens on everything simms,,,, not just dogs,,, we are losing our rights everyday,,,,, everyones gotta quit being a damn sissy and stand up for there stuff or they are gonna take itI think this came down from that discussion poll. An your right these guys are looking for a pet utopia........

[BoiBoi]

i'll be damned if the hsus ever tries to do anything like that to me, im going out blazin, eff em they all deserve to die for ruining peoples lives that aren't doing anything to affect the tree huggers lives. U know these people were probably picked on and freaking dorks in school so now they grew up and decided they wanted to get back at the world because they weren't tuff enough to fight back when they were young. Kill em all, fuckin tree huggers, my 12 pump stays loaded for those guys
YIS
B

[CooljoeGoodie]

This has to stop,lets do something folks..start writing letters,email,petitions,etc....It's time to come together,for this breed,don't let it go down like this.

[Bullyson]

What in the hell do you suggest we do CJG? All the letters in the world arent going to free Pat. Another damn good dogman is now lost in the system. All they'll get him for is breeding. I just talked to J and he said Pat just moved out there not too long ago. They must have been waiting for him. What a waste. This shit is truely depressing. :( Maybe we should get a queer to put a sheet over his head and scream and cry at the top of his lungs on Youtube about the whole thing. ... "Leave Floyde and Pat ALONE YOU BASTARDS!!":rolleyes: This has to stop,lets do something folks..start writing letters,email,petitions,etc....It's time to come together,for this breed,don't let it go down like this.

[GAPITS]

It's not just Patrick people, they also have T.L. Williams in custody and for those of you who don't already know he is the one that operates the AADR. It is time to stand up for our rights as dog owners this has to stop now! In the coming days I amsure there will be many ways that legitimate dog people can help with this so please keep a look out for ways you might be able to contribute.

[misterdogman]

Look around, mark my words, recall when I said this and that.... and especially after Dumbass Vick... I specifically said "now watch everyone start dropping like flies". I been waiting on this for years, talk about closing circles, I dont know if thats even enough now, were into full fledged denial of rights at this point, invading someones property, assuming guns were traded for dogs and saying they already verified some as fighting dogs (How) did they ask the dogs? Whats wrong with a stand??? some bitches need one its more humane than letting them fight it out right until she gives it up aint it??? Hmmm Hmmm? Taking down FB, Bailey, Tants and Now Patricks dogs among many others in just the , What next? I swear it really is going to come down to someone rebelling to the and PETA or the damn govt to get the point across or we will all have to disappear into the woods underground somewhere just for the love of our dogs and the right we have to maintain their gameness and original attributes without feeling like animal cruelests and abusers when we are not. Dogs can get scars and missing teeth from anything from chewing to accidental fights and also to hunting and hog dogging etc.... but these days innocent until proven guilty is only until they get in your shit and then your automatically guilty. Let em come to my house and see what happens. They wont find squat except MY blazin right to defend my property, damn peopel think they can invade and take and say what they want, but they wont be able to say my guns came from trading dogs, I got receipts bitch and youll be too shot up to read em anyway....I am an American I do what I want.

[jman11]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f376/jmanny152/pp.jpg
some of the dogs taken in the raids

[Marty]

It's not just Patrick people, they also have T.L. Williams in custody and for those of you who don't already know he is the one that operates the AADR. It is time to stand up for our rights as dog owners this has to stop now! In the coming days I amsure there will be many ways that legitimate dog people can help with this so please keep a look out for ways you might be able to contribute.:(

Your right GAPITS...

http://tucsoncitizen.com/ss/frontpage/77369.php

[Bullyson]

We are such a small speck of dust compared to the anti's its not even funny. Do you think JQP gives a damn about Pat Patrick, or FB, or TS, or DT? I dont. I will support in any and all ways possible but I think it will be a futile effort ultimately ending in ALL of our demise in one way or another. You cant be a rockstar in this game. Notoriety will get you locked the fuck up. OBVIOUSLY.Look around, mark my words, recall when I said this and that.... and especially after Dumbass Vick... I specifically said "now watch everyone start dropping like flies". I been waiting on this for years, talk about closing circles, I dont know if thats even enough now, were into full fledged denial of rights at this point, invading someones property, assuming guns were traded for dogs and saying they already verified some as fighting dogs (How) did they ask the dogs? Whats wrong with a stand??? some bitches need one its more humane than letting them fight it out right until she gives it up aint it??? Hmmm Hmmm? Taking down FB, Bailey, Tants and Now Patricks dogs among many others in just the , What next? I swear it really is going to come down to someone rebelling to the and PETA or the damn govt to get the point across or we will all have to disappear into the woods underground somewhere just for the love of our dogs and the right we have to maintain their gameness and original attributes without feeling like animal cruelests and abusers when we are not. Dogs can get scars and missing teeth from anything from chewing to accidental fights and also to hunting and hog dogging etc.... but these days innocent until proven guilty is only until they get in your shit and then your automatically guilty. Let em come to my house and see what happens. They wont find squat except MY blazin right to defend my property, damn peopel think they can invade and take and say what they want, but they wont be able to say my guns came from trading dogs, I got receipts bitch and youll be too shot up to read em anyway....I am an American I do what I want.

[Marty]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f376/jmanny152/pp.jpg
some of the dogs taken in the raidsAnd you know what? these innocent pups will die too :( its so f**king sad what these people will do :rolleyes:

[CooljoeGoodie]

It's unfolding right in front of our eyes,(the way they want this world to be)Everyone in office right now needs to be kicked out.I am ashamed at the abuse in office and of peoples rights.And the worst part about it is they use everyday hard working people to enforce things and they are to stupid to see it to.The only arguement that any of them can come up with is..it's the law..I hate that shit,when they say that.They know it's wrong to do people like this and they will still do it........FUCK'EN CURS!!!!!!!!!!!!All of'em need to be culled.JMO you@$^*(*()#!... oh yeah tru that GBDJ

[CooljoeGoodie]

And to think...they have them boys fighting overseas so they can do shit like this back over here......man oh man.

[Suki]

i'm going to be optimistic here, and HOPE that the Vick case=resulting in dogs being evaluated and then placed, will fall into place here, as well, and yeah, hopefully NOT like the FB case:rolleyes: .

HOPEFULLYthere are enuff resources and people available to to check and evaluate/test the dogs, and hopefully, many can/will be placed...
as far as Patrick and TL Williams go, i can only hope our legal system will do what's fair and just.
and yeah, notoriety may get you 'noticed' and sadly it's this thinking that wins, as people sit by, not willing to talk and speak up, cuz they're afraid to lose their own. and Big Brother wins, yet again.... :(
imo, "the greatest failure is the failure to try"....

when FB needed support, by means of letters,
as per the following:

"Today I've spoken to both Floyd Boudreaux, and to his attorney's office. We need letters of support for Mr. Boudreaux. It is important for not only his attorney to know how well respected Mr. Boudreaux is, but it is also important for the Louisiana Attorney General, and the prosecution to know. We need to describe how much Mr. Boudreaux has influenced us, how well respected the dogs that he has produced are, and how their loss is a hard blow to the future of the APBT. We need letters of support. Please address them to;
Mr. Jason Robideaux, Attorney at Law
send them to me, and I will forward them to Mr. Robideaux".

Thank you all in advance, and please keep the Boudreaux family in your prayers.
Cherie Graves, chairwoman
Responsible Dog Owners of the Western States
http://www.povn.com/rdows (http://www.povn.com/rdows)
323922 N. Hwy. 2
Diamond Lake, WA 99156

i set some time aside to write something. i figured a LOT of people would.
i was mistaken...


here was the reply i received back:
dated 8/06 ( i saved this email. reasons may be obvious)

Sue,
I want to thank you for writing. Yours is the first letter that I have received for Mr. Boudreaux. I am honestly astonished that there have been no other letters of support, as Mr. Boudreaux is an icon amongst dog breeders, whose dogs are the best of the best. I truly believed that dog people would come out in support of one of their own. I am heartened somewhat by the receipt of your letter, but very saddened that yours is the only one that I've gotten. I am proud to have you with me in your support of Mr. Boudreaux, and if we are the only two, then so be it. We now know, that if the same thing happens to us, where we can count upon support.
God Bless you for speaking up.
Cherie Graves


i was glad to try to help, but being only one, how can just ONE make a difference??????
but imagine our strength, when we ALL join forces????? damn! that's some impressive numbers, huh?!!!!!
think about it.....

[14rock]

PP hasn't fought a dog in decades. This is common knowledge, what should be of concern is they arrested him because his animals were believed to have been in a "vehicle stopped in Chicago".

[CooljoeGoodie]

i'm going to be optimistic here, and HOPE that the Vick case=resulting in dogs being evaluated and then placed, will fall into place here, as well, and yeah, hopefully NOT like the FB case:rolleyes: .

HOPEFULLYthere are enuff resources and people available to to check and evaluate/test the dogs, and hopefully, many can/will be placed...
as far as Patrick and TL Williams go, i can only hope our legal system will do what's fair and just.
and yeah, notoriety may get you 'noticed' and sadly it's this thinking that wins, as people sit by, not willing to talk and speak up, cuz they're afraid to lose their own. and Big Brother wins, yet again.... :(
imo, "the greatest failure is the failure to try"....

when FB needed support, by means of letters,
as per the following:

"Today I've spoken to both Floyd Boudreaux, and to his attorney's office. We need letters of support for Mr. Boudreaux. It is important for not only his attorney to know how well respected Mr. Boudreaux is, but it is also important for the Louisiana Attorney General, and the prosecution to know. We need to describe how much Mr. Boudreaux has influenced us, how well respected the dogs that he has produced are, and how their loss is a hard blow to the future of the APBT. We need letters of support. Please address them to;
Mr. Jason Robideaux, Attorney at Law
send them to me, and I will forward them to Mr. Robideaux".

Thank you all in advance, and please keep the Boudreaux family in your prayers.
Cherie Graves, chairwoman
Responsible Dog Owners of the Western States
http://www.povn.com/rdows (http://www.povn.com/rdows)
323922 N. Hwy. 2
Diamond Lake, WA 99156

i set some time aside to write something. i figured a LOT of people would.
i was mistaken...


here was the reply i received back:
dated 8/06 ( i saved this email. reasons may be obvious)

Sue,
I want to thank you for writing. Yours is the first letter that I have received for Mr. Boudreaux. I am honestly astonished that there have been no other letters of support, as Mr. Boudreaux is an icon amongst dog breeders, whose dogs are the best of the best. I truly believed that dog people would come out in support of one of their own. I am heartened somewhat by the receipt of your letter, but very saddened that yours is the only one that I've gotten. I am proud to have you with me in your support of Mr. Boudreaux, and if we are the only two, then so be it. We now know, that if the same thing happens to us, where we can count upon support.
God Bless you for speaking up.
Cherie Graves


i was glad to try to help, but being only one, how can just ONE make a difference??????
but imagine our strength, when we ALL join forces????? damn! that's some impressive numbers, huh?!!!!!
think about it..... Suki you are so right,I hope that we all can learn to stand up for each other,...before I would have not written myself,thinking that I don't need the hassel.But now I'm gonna fight every Rightway that I can,and I hope everyone will do the same....cause don't you expect it?.Great Post!

[CooljoeGoodie]

PP hasn't fought a dog in decades. This is common knowledge, what should be of concern is they arrested him because his animals were believed to have been in a "vehicle stopped in Chicago". You know thats BS,cause they will find a gun or cocaine that came from smith & wesson or from clouimba that killed a human,but wont go and arrest anybody.Damn sure ain't nothing wrong with guns cause I love to hunt,just trying to make a point no matter how stupid.

[sedaliapitbulls]

ok i didnt realize t.l williams was involved until now. So does anyone have an ideal how this is going to affect the registry and sactioned clubs.

[Suki]

^ guess that remains to be seen, ...is anybody's guess at this point.

[MASONDOGS]

ok i didnt realize t.l williams was involved until now. So does anyone have an ideal how this is going to affect the registry and sactioned clubs.you should be more worried about how its going to affect you...believe it when I say they have the names and addresses of everyone on that registry now

[bahamutt99]

i set some time aside to write something. i figured a LOT of people would.
i was mistaken...
I didn't know about this. Probably too late now, right? Maybe people were too afraid to submit anything with their names and addresses, in the belief that they would be next to come under the microscope. Not that that excuses not doing anything, but treachery can be an ugly thing, and we all need to keep our eyes open for it.

[rhumble]

i'll be damned if the hsus ever tries to do anything like that to me, im going out blazin, eff em they all deserve to die for ruining peoples lives that aren't doing anything to affect the tree huggers lives. U know these people were probably picked on and freaking dorks in school so now they grew up and decided they wanted to get back at the world because they weren't tuff enough to fight back when they were young. Kill em all, fuckin tree huggers, my 12 pump stays loaded for those fags
YIS
BAMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

[GSDbulldog]

And you know what? these innocent pups will die too :( its so f**king sad what these people will do :rolleyes: "Marsh Myers, director of community outreach for the Humane Society of Southern Arizona, said "99 percent" of the seized dogs are pit bulls.
Each animal must be analyzed for scars, tattoos and missing teeth.
Myers said he didn't know what will be done with the dogs once they have been processed.
"Even among the puppies there could be generations of fighting dogs," he said. "There's no way you can train that out of a puppy.""

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/77369.php
:(

Where will all these rescue groups be for these dogs? With all the attention the "Vick dogs" recieved, you would think all the publicity would show that dogs from "fight busts" aren't all that different from... *gasp*... dogs in general.

[robert]

It's a problem of lobbying. These anti whatever you call them people are well organized and believe in their crusade. Therefore they all speak in one voice and receive a lot of support from the medias and the public. They get "stars" to support their message, thus gaining more credibility. What can you guies do exept cry out your desillision. It all comes up to lobbying. Look at the NRA, now that's a lobby which succeeds because it works the same way as PETA. Pitbull people should gather and establish a list of guidelines they want to foolow and make their words become popular. We can stay here and discuss all day on how sad things are becoming, it just might not have any impact.

[rhumble]

you are right robert
still i think it is utopik because:
people bash other people dogs, lines, selection etc.
people bash other people because ones do sports others do hunting.
people bash people because one got gamedogs other got petbull....
honestly i think that our union will never happen and that is our fall

[Gameboy864]

We are such a small speck of dust compared to the anti's its not even funny. Do you think JQP gives a damn about Pat Patrick, or FB, or TS, or DT? I dont. I will support in any and all ways possible but I think it will be a futile effort ultimately ending in ALL of our demise in one way or another. You cant be a rockstar in this game. Notoriety will get you locked the fuck up. OBVIOUSLY. That's true. Time to go back underground. I hate it for the new comers. Fuck the pigs and their silly allegations. They may try and contain us, but they cant stop us. Look at this country. One had to know it was going to be damned because of how it came about. Their concern isn't about the dogs or the fights. IT'S THE MONEY PEOPLE! WAKE UP! The sooner we start cutting them in, the better it'll be for us right? I mean look at dope! They tried to stop it, but couldn't. So now, it's almost allowed, as long as they get their cut. We'll just do it like that right?

[Chef-Kergin]

PP hasn't fought a dog in decades. This is common knowledge, what should be of concern is they arrested him because his animals were believed to have been in a "vehicle stopped in Chicago".i hear that. scary what they can do from speculation.

i've heard that he never stepped over the walls for a contract, never once. and i have no reason not to believe the person that told me this.

and didn't t.w. go through this shit before a couple years ago?

we'll have to wait and see how this pans out, and hopefully all the dogs don't get executed for no reason.

[rhumble]

That's true. Time to go back underground. I hate it for the new comers. Fuck the pigs and their silly allegations. They may try and contain us, but they cant stop us. Look at this country. One had to know it was going to be damned because of how it came about. Their concern isn't about the dogs or the fights. IT'S THE MONEY PEOPLE! WAKE UP! The sooner we start cutting them in, the better it'll be for us right? I mean look at dope! They tried to stop it, but couldn't. So now, it's almost allowed, as long as they get their cut. We'll just do it like that right?i agree with you but...
about drugs...governement wins with drugs, higher crimes related to drugs = police reenforcement, inmates work cheaper than average worker...etc ect prison complex is big, in 20 yrs in cali they builted 20 prisons and not 1 university, 1 prison gard earns more than a teacher.................
no crimes no police... get what i mean?
to me it come to - privations of rights, then either we submit and loose our rights either we stand our ground and become "terrorists"

remember 1 thing
they have the money and power already, they are looking to strip us from our rights ( modern days slaves?), look at what big companies offer us...
tabaco = cancer?
alcool= violence? broken famillies? uneducated children?
fast food= bad health?
and countless useless gadgets so we WASTE our honest earned money in it so we are driven to accept lousy jobs so survive (not live)

this is about them controling us either we like it or not and it will get worst in the future

[robert]

Wow, that is persimistic. I agree with you on some points, but Iin a democracy it is up to each one to make his/her choices. What do you suggest, ban publicity... You know that it is because of economy that you can get education, health care, security,....
The problem is that in this paricular case, no one is there to represent the pitbulls.
If Disney made a film with a pit for hero, you would see people getting different opinions on the breed. The problem is the bad press it gets.

[BoiBoi]

u know i was thinking about this for a while last night and i came to the conclusion that the internet is one of the main reasons why all this BS is going on. People are becoming very arrogant and posting all there personal business online. I think the best thing for our breed is to stop this internet doggin crap, and keep to ourselves in regards to the dogs. No more posting peds online or anything of that sort, i think that would save a lot of dogs and a lot of peoples lives. These tree huggers use the net as a main source to prosecute so called dog fighters, when all they are doing is throwing up false information that some jerk off somewhere posted on the net and made people believe it was the truth. U know everyone says try and make this breed look good to the publics eye, but what people don't realize is the general public has no say in these raids so why in the hell should the public like our breed, it won't matter once they are all seized anyway. I think we should do our best to keep the true apbt out of the public eye, thats the only way we'll be able to keep our dogs. The hell with closing ur circles, make ur circles invisible to everyone except a select few. Privacy is the only way to keep our freedoms

[BoiBoi]

on another note it seems now that the investigators have implied that anyone that owns a AADR registered dog is considered to be a dog fighter, and trust me they have all the info on everyone now that they have TLW and they raided his home. So basically i hope and pray that everyone keeps the yard and dogs in great shape and for gods sake get rid of your breeding stands and mills and springpoles and hide ur break sticks for the time being, Don't leave any room for error otherwise YOU will end up like these great men

[OnionHead]

So does this mean that they will start going down the list each person's place cause if so thats a long thing.

[BoiBoi]

So does this mean that they will start going down the list each person's place cause if so thats a long thing.
who knows what they have planned all i know is it can't be good, watch ur backs people the devil is coming in the form of "humane" society workers

[BoiBoi]

http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepagetopstory/stories/KTVKLnews20080219_tucsondogfighting.bc690ff.html
heres the link that states that T.L. Williams runs a dog registry that is used by dogfighters nationwide, which in turn means regardless of the situation looks like everyone is lumped into the same category

[shadyridgekennel]

this is really not good that they have TL there. I had just sent some papers on dogs to reg with him. and i sent them certified mail. and i just checked the tracking # and it was delivered to there po box monday.

so we are hoping noone can pick these papers up?!

[sedaliapitbulls]

i can see all the officers of the clubs being investigated because they draw the most attention. This is a bad deal because our names are the ones that are on the website and everywhere els that we keep in contact with terry on a regular basis.

[JRSPITS]

Wow, I didn't know that all it took to be a "hard core dog fighter" was a treadmill, injectable substance, and a breakstick. Someone should have told me sooner. Looks like I can no longer exercise my dog, immunize my dog against disease or heartworm, or safely propect my dog from other dogs on walks without going to prison. Just call me a "hardcore dog fighter", sad, sad day.

[shadyridgekennel]

ok guys in regard to the AADR. i just got off the phone with them and they dont know what was taken as far as owners info ect. he said they ransacked the office bad.and that this was a witchhunt and he was on the other line with his lawyer and had to let me go.

[Bullyson]

Hand write your peds. What else has to happen before people realize they need not blast there dogs genetics over the internet? Dont sell pups and you wont need a ped anyway. What do you have to prove?

[texas_dogger]

u know i was thinking about this for a while last night and i came to the conclusion that the internet is one of the main reasons why all this BS is going on. People are becoming very arrogant and posting all there personal business online. I think the best thing for our breed is to stop this internet doggin crap, and keep to ourselves in regards to the dogs. No more posting peds online or anything of that sort, i think that would save a lot of dogs and a lot of peoples lives. These tree huggers use the net as a main source to prosecute so called dog fighters, when all they are doing is throwing up false information that some jerk off somewhere posted on the net and made people believe it was the truth. U know everyone says try and make this breed look good to the publics eye, but what people don't realize is the general public has no say in these raids so why in the hell should the public like our breed, it won't matter once they are all seized anyway. I think we should do our best to keep the true apbt out of the public eye, thats the only way we'll be able to keep our dogs. The hell with closing ur circles, make ur circles invisible to everyone except a select few. Privacy is the only way to keep our freedoms

Well said B.B. I agree with you 100%

<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[shadyridgekennel]

here another news link. look at the slide show. all the dogs look fat and happy to me.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/related/225821.php

[cheese]

The Patricks hand wrote their peds. They left their boards open to the public. I dont think they could have done anything different except get out of the dogs...

[Rockstar]

here another news link. look at the slide show. all the dogs look fat and happy to me.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/related/225821.phpNo one is questioning the condition of the dogs. A number of authorities have admitted that the dogs are in great shape. To quote one source: "The cruelty is in the fighting, not how the dogs were kept."

[sedaliapitbulls]

ok dont want to sound stupid but who is mahlon patrick



No one is questioning the condition of the dogs. A number of authorities have admitted that the dogs are in great shape. To quote one source: "The cruelty is in the fighting, not how the dogs were kept."

[jman11]

lol if you thought his real name was PP

[sedaliapitbulls]

ok i dont really know a whole lot about him personally so i did not know his real name but now that i know he is pat patrick ok thanks.

lol if you thought his real name was PP

[shadyridgekennel]

latest news on patrick

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=7900944&nav=menu86_2

[MinorThreat]

one of the first pics shows a dog with its ear torn off and scarring, thats not going to cut it as being fat and happy puppy dogs.

[RightHandImp]

latest news on patrick

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=7900944&nav=menu86_2

I have no words for this except utter disgust and contempt for the ignorant bastards running this country...so, tell me this, my 30 lb corgis must be fighter too then just because i own a treadmill and syringes for vaccines??? wtf

thoughts are with MP

[215pitts]

SAD! No case and they are released! Just another way to get ridd of dogs!

[True_Bulldog]

on another note it seems now that the investigators have implied that anyone that owns a AADR registered dog is considered to be a dog fighter, and trust me they have all the info on everyone now that they have TLW and they raided his home. So basically i hope and pray that everyone keeps the yard and dogs in great shape and for gods sake get rid of your breeding stands and mills and springpoles and hide ur break sticks for the time being, Don't leave any room for error otherwise YOU will end up like these great menThis is true, they've got all the customer info, BUT will much come of it. I am concerned over on the other hand they had a bunch of names/info when SDJ went down and not too much came of that. Many people untouched even though the info was right there at their disposal.

I do hear what you're saying, but what can we do. Hide? For how long? Have to get rid of the dogs completely in order to do this.

[215pitts]

Don't live your life in FEAR thinking that anyone is going to be after you or your dogs. You haven't done anything wrong and there isn't anything to worry about with the list and names of the people. I mean it's list of people having their dogs registered with a club that shows them other wise how are you suppose to show dogs?

[nc_pitbullmommy]

I was a little nervous too when I read TL Williams was in that raid but I have nothing to be nervous about LOL
My dog's are well cared for and none have scars or anything.
I can only hope this doesn't create problems for the AADR shows.

[Ratler123]

"Marsh Myers, director of community outreach for the Humane Society of Southern Arizona, said "99 percent" of the seized dogs are pit bulls.
Each animal must be analyzed for scars, tattoos and missing teeth.
Myers said he didn't know what will be done with the dogs once they have been processed.
"Even among the puppies there could be generations of fighting dogs," he said. "There's no way you can train that out of a puppy.""

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/77369.php
:(

Where will all these rescue groups be for these dogs? With all the attention the "Vick dogs" recieved, you would think all the publicity would show that dogs from "fight busts" aren't all that different from... *gasp*... dogs in general.
WTF no sh*t you can't train out their fighting instinct, but not because they are from a line of fighting dogs but because they are APBTs... the ignorance of society. The instinct cannot be completely blocked, but a fight can be prevented with proper care, so there is no reason to fear their ancestry

[True_Bulldog]

I was a little nervous too when I read TL Williams was in that raid but I have nothing to be nervous about LOL
My dog's are well cared for and none have scars or anything.
I can only hope this doesn't create problems for the AADR shows.You might not have anything to worry about but some of us do. Some of us have treadmills, springpoles, breaking sticks, ect. It doesn't matter that the dogs are not fighting dogs and well cared for, they only care about making a case and turning every item owned into dog fighting paraphenalia. Basically when they bust you they link just about everything you have to dog fighting even though it doesn't have anything to do with dog fighting, like was the case in TN. They just speculate. Bolt cutters were used to steal bait dogs, some how medication used to treat distemper is used to train dogs to fight.

Even some casual owners should be aware they can be investigated simply for owning a Pit Bull. Even if you are found innocent it won't bring your dogs back if they decide to PTS before trial. This happened to one person. They only had 2 dogs and no fighting equipment. Just 2 pet bulls living in an apartment, but both were killed, the owner was found innocent but the dogs were already dead.

[bahamutt99]

Basically when they bust you they link just about everything you have to dog fighting even though it doesn't have anything to do with dog fighting, like was the case in TN. They just speculate. Bolt cutters were used to steal bait dogs, some how medication used to treat distemper is used to train dogs to fight.
This is true. And the things they don't understand, they make up stuff about. Treadmills aren't for exercise; they're to run the dogs to exhaustion. Springpoles aren't for recreation; they're for jaw-strengthening.

I remember reading an article where they said that breaking sticks were "wooden daggers used to goad the dogs into fighting." It was a joke for a while, where I kept jabbing Loki with our stick and saying "Fight, damn you, fight!" Then other people will tell you that the breaking sticks break the dog's jaw, but thankfully I haven't heard that monstrosity from the media yet.

[Rockstar]

This is true. And the things they don't understand, they make up stuff about. Treadmills aren't for exercise; they're to run the dogs to exhaustion. Springpoles aren't for recreation; they're for jaw-strengthening.

I remember reading an article where they said that breaking sticks were "wooden daggers used to goad the dogs into fighting." It was a joke for a while, where I kept jabbing Loki with our stick and saying "Fight, damn you, fight!" Then other people will tell you that the breaking sticks break the dog's jaw, but thankfully I haven't heard that monstrosity from the media yet....and then there were the recent comments by a sheriff in North Carolina spouting off on the news about a breeding stand being a "face-off device" used to increase aggression in dogs.
Let us not forget the common "dogs were chained in close proximity to one another in order to make them aggressive." Ya hear that one every damned time:(.

And how about the tried and true "...dogs were living in their own feces" line used in virtually every cruelty case ever prosecuted? But go to any dog shelter in the country and tell me if there isn't shit on the floor!

I swear to God I don't know how I haven't gone postal by now.:mad:

[MisanthropeKitty]

did yall see this link? they have been described as "people-friendly" its soo fucking unreal that they are doing this. just look at these dogs and common sense tells you they are well cared for and not fought. its complete and utter bullshit.
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/related/77569

[BAU]

OK, so the lead spokesperson for the HSUS is John Goodman, aka JP Goodman. This guy is an admitted former ALF (Animal Liberation Front) member and founder of the CAFT (Coalition to Abolish the Fur Trade). He is on the news videos put forth as the "expert" in this case. Now he is head of the HSUS' Animal Fighting Issues division, wtf. So the law enforcement down there think an ALF member with PETA ties is a credible witness and investigator for this case. Nice, fair and objective, huh? Just do a Google search on him and you can see what his real views are.

[Rocky H. Balboa]

...and then there were the recent comments by a sheriff in North Carolina spouting off on the news about a breeding stand being a "face-off device" used to increase aggression in dogs.
Let us not forget the common "dogs were chained in close proximity to one another in order to make them aggressive." Ya hear that one every damned time:(.

And how about the tried and true "...dogs were living in their own feces" line used in virtually every cruelty case ever prosecuted? But go to any dog shelter in the country and tell me if there isn't shit on the floor!

I swear to God I don't know how I haven't gone postal by now.:mad:
Well, if you go to this same thread on ROM you will find a suggestion I made for anyone nearing "postal" state of mind. :D

[VOICE_of_REASON]

Good post BAU. You are referring to John Paul GOODWIN. He runs the "Fighting" division for the HSUS. He was not only the founder of CAFT and a member of ALF he was the spokesman for ALF. He is a criminal with a record, he is listed on the FBI domestic terrorists list. He is an EXTREME ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST/ZEALOT, with a demented agenda. Who will stoop to any means, to get that agenda enforced! And this is the type of "person" that Arizona Law Enforcement has aligned themselves with! That says allot about the merit of these charges! It's all complete BS... And abuse of power.

Typical HSUS scare tactics. They are trying to get the "Game dog community" in flight mode. They are trying to dismantle any support systems in the community. I suggest stay united and stay strong! No one has done anything wrong! There is nothing Illegal, about owning, & breeding pitbulls and registering them with the AADR! The AADR is not a fighting dog registry. There is irrefutable proof of this!

This is an outrageous unjust travisty, that has happened to some great people in the pitbull world! And these people are in need of our help, in times like this! All their assets have been siezed! They took all their funds, and left them with no resources! If you want to do something constructive and help this situation, get resolved victoriously! Then Please donate to their legal defense fund! I am going to try and find out who is representing them and then I will post it on here...

[Buckaroo]

Well where do I begin here? It seems that the level of passionate feelings is high in this thread and they should be. When are we ever going to stop the madness that is going on with our breed today? The trouble is, the passionate feeling being expressed here are the same old things said every time somebody gets arrested for dog fighting. Let’s cry a river for these poor innocent folks who are being railroaded by the law! What ever happened to the last pair of folks who this site was crusading for when their van was stopped? I may not post much here, but I’ve read plenty. Where are they now? From my understanding one has plead guilty and the other one, well if anyone could tell us the fate of that one please do. The same people you all claimed were such good guys and stand up individuals are now in jail and apparently informants. Or at least one of them appears to be according to law enforcement. Oh yeah, silly me! You can’t believe a thing those law enforcement folks have to say! They’re just all out to arrest people for no good reason and kill all the dogs. Some of you may want to lay off the reefer. I hear it makes you paranoid. The fact that they turned shouldn’t surprise any of you. Mike Vick, another one of your heros, did the exact same thing. It was in public print he agreed to cooperate with investigations. Yep I forgot again though, you can’t believe that if the cops said it.


Pat Patrick is a fool. Pure, plain and simple. His brazen advertisement and basic snubbing of his nose thinking he was untouchable got him exactly what he had coming. Is everyone going to send money to these folks too so they can cop a plea and squeal? There are plenty of dog men just as successful, with dogs just as fine who have never had to advertise like a fool for it to be known what they had. It seems that some of the dog men though have decided that selling a few thousand dogs a year is an easy living, so why not pump up the hype if it helps to line your pockets. Blue breeders get bashed regularly for pumping out the shit eaters they do, yet if your name happens to appear on peds like certain dog men of today, it is fine that you put thousands of dogs out into circulation because it is quality stock. Yeah that’s bettering the breed for sure!

<O:p

I read saying on here like, “close the circle”, and “wake up and smell the coffee”. Yes it is indeed time to do these things. Maybe somebody should send a memo to folks like PP, TG, and others who are peddling off thousands of mutts per year. If there were that many people that should be in the circle, we would have no problem getting matching back on the books as legal. Our voice could not be silenced. So where are all these dogs going? To anyone with the money, that’s who. In the end that’s all it’s about to them. The money. Anybody that can’t admit that is only fooling themselves. Yes they want to, and do produce quality dogs. Nobody needs or should produce that many dogs though, no matter what the quality.

[cheese]

You can’t believe a thing those law enforcement folks have to say! They’re just all out to arrest people for no good reason and kill all the dogs. I really couldn't have put it any better!
What are they all getting charged with anyways? What laws did law enforcement get to enforce?

[GAPITS]

Well where do I begin here? It seems that the level of passionate feelings is high in this thread and they should be. When are we ever going to stop the madness that is going on with our breed today? The trouble is, the passionate feeling being expressed here are the same old things said every time somebody gets arrested for dog fighting. Let’s cry a river for these poor innocent folks who are being railroaded by the law! What ever happened to the last pair of folks who this site was crusading for when their van was stopped? I may not post much here, but I’ve read plenty. Where are they now? From my understanding one has plead guilty and the other one, well if anyone could tell us the fate of that one please do. The same people you all claimed were such good guys and stand up individuals are now in jail and apparently informants. Or at least one of them appears to be according to law enforcement. Oh yeah, silly me! You can’t believe a thing those law enforcement folks have to say! They’re just all out to arrest people for no good reason and kill all the dogs. Some of you may want to lay off the reefer. I hear it makes you paranoid. The fact that they turned shouldn’t surprise any of you. Mike Vick, another one of your heros, did the exact same thing. It was in public print he agreed to cooperate with investigations. Yep I forgot again though, you can’t believe that if the cops said it.


Pat Patrick is a fool. Pure, plain and simple. His brazen advertisement and basic snubbing of his nose thinking he was untouchable got him exactly what he had coming. Is everyone going to send money to these folks too so they can cop a plea and squeal? There are plenty of dog men just as successful, with dogs just as fine who have never had to advertise like a fool for it to be known what they had. It seems that some of the dog men though have decided that selling a few thousand dogs a year is an easy living, so why not pump up the hype if it helps to line your pockets. Blue breeders get bashed regularly for pumping out the shit eaters they do, yet if your name happens to appear on peds like certain dog men of today, it is fine that you put thousands of dogs out into circulation because it is quality stock. Yeah that’s bettering the breed for sure!

<O:p

I read saying on here like, “close the circle”, and “wake up and smell the coffee”. Yes it is indeed time to do these things. Maybe somebody should send a memo to folks like PP, TG, and others who are peddling off thousands of mutts per year. If there were that many people that should be in the circle, we would have no problem getting matching back on the books as legal. Our voice could not be silenced. So where are all these dogs going? To anyone with the money, that’s who. In the end that’s all it’s about to them. The money. Anybody that can’t admit that is only fooling themselves. Yes they want to, and do produce quality dogs. Nobody needs or should produce that many dogs though, no matter what the quality. Well Buckaroo I can't speak for the owner of the van involved in Chicago's incident but I can speak for the other one and he has not cut any deal or copped any kind of plea. He is still fighting for what is right and will at the risk of his own freedom continue to see it thru. So while some may turn please don't be so quick to judge them all.

[Dred Lok Kennels]

Well where do I begin here? It seems that the level of passionate feelings is high in this thread and they should be. When are we ever going to stop the madness that is going on with our breed today? The trouble is, the passionate feeling being expressed here are the same old things said every time somebody gets arrested for dog fighting. Let’s cry a river for these poor innocent folks who are being railroaded by the law! What ever happened to the last pair of folks who this site was crusading for when their van was stopped? I may not post much here, but I’ve read plenty. Where are they now? From my understanding one has plead guilty and the other one, well if anyone could tell us the fate of that one please do. The same people you all claimed were such good guys and stand up individuals are now in jail and apparently informants. Or at least one of them appears to be according to law enforcement. Oh yeah, silly me! You can’t believe a thing those law enforcement folks have to say! They’re just all out to arrest people for no good reason and kill all the dogs. Some of you may want to lay off the reefer. I hear it makes you paranoid. The fact that they turned shouldn’t surprise any of you. Mike Vick, another one of your heros, did the exact same thing. It was in public print he agreed to cooperate with investigations. Yep I forgot again though, you can’t believe that if the cops said it.


Pat Patrick is a fool. Pure, plain and simple. His brazen advertisement and basic snubbing of his nose thinking he was untouchable got him exactly what he had coming. Is everyone going to send money to these folks too so they can cop a plea and squeal? There are plenty of dog men just as successful, with dogs just as fine who have never had to advertise like a fool for it to be known what they had. It seems that some of the dog men though have decided that selling a few thousand dogs a year is an easy living, so why not pump up the hype if it helps to line your pockets. Blue breeders get bashed regularly for pumping out the shit eaters they do, yet if your name happens to appear on peds like certain dog men of today, it is fine that you put thousands of dogs out into circulation because it is quality stock. Yeah that’s bettering the breed for sure!

<O:p

I read saying on here like, “close the circle”, and “wake up and smell the coffee”. Yes it is indeed time to do these things. Maybe somebody should send a memo to folks like PP, TG, and others who are peddling off thousands of mutts per year. If there were that many people that should be in the circle, we would have no problem getting matching back on the books as legal. Our voice could not be silenced. So where are all these dogs going? To anyone with the money, that’s who. In the end that’s all it’s about to them. The money. Anybody that can’t admit that is only fooling themselves. Yes they want to, and do produce quality dogs. Nobody needs or should produce that many dogs though, no matter what the quality.

Great response..............

[dizzle0021]

I believe they were refering to BB. If I am not mistaken.

Well Buckaroo I can't speak for the owner of the van involved in Chicago's incident but I can speak for the other one and he has not cut any deal or copped any kind of plea. He is still fighting for what is right and will at the risk of his own freedom continue to see it thru. So while some may turn please don't be so quick to judge them all.

[nc_pitbullmommy]

You might not have anything to worry about but some of us do. Some of us have treadmills, springpoles, breaking sticks, ect. It doesn't matter that the dogs are not fighting dogs and well cared for, they only care about making a case and turning every item owned into dog fighting paraphenalia. Basically when they bust you they link just about everything you have to dog fighting even though it doesn't have anything to do with dog fighting, like was the case in TN. They just speculate. Bolt cutters were used to steal bait dogs, some how medication used to treat distemper is used to train dogs to fight.

Even some casual owners should be aware they can be investigated simply for owning a Pit Bull. Even if you are found innocent it won't bring your dogs back if they decide to PTS before trial. This happened to one person. They only had 2 dogs and no fighting equipment. Just 2 pet bulls living in an apartment, but both were killed, the owner was found innocent but the dogs were already dead.Wow that brings a whole new light to the situation. I never thought of that.
I don't own treadmill or anything BUT my dogs are chained a few feet from each other. I have a fenced yard but neither will stay in it.
The thing is NEITHER of them are mine LOL I am keeping them for other people. They may have to come get their dogs especially since the male is AADR registered.....

Maybe I'm just panicing for no reason but I just got a bad gut feeling about how this is going to go as far as the AADR registered dogs.

[Rockstar]

I didn't see anyone here saying Vick wasn't guilty; only pleas for open-mindedness and to not judge the man before he was convicted.

In regards to BB and TS, they are unquestionably innocent of the charges brought against them. The fact that Brian took a plea means nothing. The dude had been sitting in jail for months, has only one leg, his wife is working two jobs and trying to care for 60 dogs by herself. They tell him if he takes the plea, he'll be out in no time and have this all behind him. If he goes to trial and loses, his life is pretty much over. Easy to pass judgement if you've never been in such a position.
Gotta give Tony props for opting for a trial...can't say I would've, considering the risks involved. If a prosecuter tells you you'll be out of jail and done with this in two or three months if you just take the plea, or you can sit for another six months to a year waiting for a trial, which may result in several more years of prison time, what would you do? Brian is already a convicted felon. He had absolutely nothing to lose by plea bargaining.
On the contrary, he faced losing a lot just by waiting for a trial, regardless of the verdict!
And to publicly accuse someone of being a snitch without hard evidence...well, I won't be the one to address the ethics of that.

[14rock]

As I've said before, show me a shred of proof where it says one of the men in the van were informants. The article, simply said, they found information because of that arrest. To assume one of the men, was squealing is unfounded, when all the info they needed would of been in the travel log they confiscated.

Calling someone a snitch is a very strong accusation to make, better have some solid proof!

[Suki]

Calling someone a snitch is a very strong accusation to make, better have some solid proof!

couldn't agree more......

[SMOKIN HEMI]

I think people should be given the benefit of the doubt until a trial is over. Again let us not rush to judgement. Everyone knows what is going on but how many people are man or woman enough to stand up to the establishment and tell them to F#ck off

[Dixiegal]

In regards to BB and TS, they are unquestionably innocent of the charges brought against them. The fact that Brian took a plea means nothing. The dude had been sitting in jail for months, has only one leg, his wife is working two jobs and trying to care for 60 dogs by herself.
Maybe you can help me out here because this is something I just don't understand - why in the world would one person have 60 dogs? I can't see 2 people being able to care for that many animals properly, let alone one. And it doesn't sound like they had enough $$ to hire yard hands. I mean, pit bulls aren't some different species - in the end, they're just dogs - they need socialization, stimulation and attention as much as any other breed. There aren't enough hours in a day for somebody to give enough attention to 60 dogs.
Sorry for the rant, but that always gets me.

[Aurora]

Maybe you can help me out here because this is something I just don't understand - why in the world would one person have 60 dogs? I can't see 2 people being able to care for that many animals properly, let alone one. And it doesn't sound like they had enough $$ to hire yard hands. I mean, pit bulls aren't some different species - in the end, they're just dogs - they need socialization, stimulation and attention as much as any other breed. There aren't enough hours in a day for somebody to give enough attention to 60 dogs.
Sorry for the rant, but that always gets me.Views like this held by the general public is why this breed is in danger .

1. It doesn't matter WHY they owned any given number of dogs as long as no law is broken .

2. Animals need 3 things , food , water , and shelter to survive and not be mistreated . If the animals are in proper physical condition then no law is broken .

3. These animals are not children . One's opinion on how an animal is mentally stimulated or emotionally balanced has no bearing on the LAW at hand .


HSUS are masters at propaganda . Propaganda as defined by Webster's dictionary " Ideas disseminated to support a doctrine " . Wake up people , the HSUS , peta , alf etc. are using this front to line their coffers .

We as a nation need to worry about our own backyard instead of looking into others . This is encroaching on everyone's freedoms

[Rockstar]

Maybe you can help me out here because this is something I just don't understand - why in the world would one person have 60 dogs? I can't see 2 people being able to care for that many animals properly, let alone one. And it doesn't sound like they had enough $$ to hire yard hands. I mean, pit bulls aren't some different species - in the end, they're just dogs - they need socialization, stimulation and attention as much as any other breed. There aren't enough hours in a day for somebody to give enough attention to 60 dogs.
Sorry for the rant, but that always gets me.Your question is irrelevant, but if you're asking me directly, I can't give you a specific answer because I've never owned sixty dogs at one time. I can tell you that if you spend enough time taking care of any given number of dogs, you learn to develop a workable system. What works for one isn't necessarily likely to work for another. Whatever the Baileys are doing, it's working for them.

[yellaman420]

Thats a lot of poop to scoop! I it when the antis say "living in their own feces". Makes it seem like there are turds under foot, and the critters cant walk w/ out makin a squish. Propaganda, I like that. Why not use some against that HSUS 'expert', the ALF member. There has got to be some skeletons in that S.O.B.s closet. If he is half the 'upstanding' citizen folks say he is, there is some secretary walkin around w/ a harassment suite waitin to be filed.
As a community though, we as dog owners need to start striking first against these people's agenda. With the amount of money some of the larger figures in these animals are making, some kind of political clout, smear campaign or propaganda needs to be taken before these people can ban, shoot, gas, or legislate all domestics out of existence. As long as they can pull the liberal media's heart strings, more money will be given to them. You notice all the HSUS banners in websites now? "it only takes 2 hours to poison a dog, but one minute to report it" In our microwave society that is a perfect time frame for someone to fabricate a story w/ no proof and cause you no end of trouble.
Im sure out of all the game dog fans out there, someones brother, cousin whatever is a lawyer or a person of influence lookin for a cause. How bout keep your laws off my dogs?!
Im a bit low on the totem pole to make any kinda waves, yet. However, there are plenty more established people who can.

[Dixiegal]

Views like this held by the general public is why this breed is in danger .

1. It doesn't matter WHY they owned any given number of dogs as long as no law is broken .

2. Animals need 3 things , food , water , and shelter to survive and not be mistreated . If the animals are in proper physical condition then no law is broken .

3. These animals are not children . One's opinion on how an animal is mentally stimulated or emotionally balanced has no bearing on the LAW at hand .


HSUS are masters at propaganda . Propaganda as defined by Webster's dictionary " Ideas disseminated to support a doctrine " . Wake up people , the HSUS , peta , alf etc. are using this front to line their coffers .

We as a nation need to worry about our own backyard instead of looking into others . This is encroaching on everyone's freedoms
I wasn't referring to anyone breaking the law or not - I was asking a question. I'm not talking about the law - I'm asking how someone can take care of 60 dogs.

[Dixiegal]

Your question is irrelevant, but if you're asking me directly, I can't give you a specific answer because I've never owned sixty dogs at one time. I can tell you that if you spend enough time taking care of any given number of dogs, you learn to develop a workable system. What works for one isn't necessarily likely to work for another. Whatever the Baileys are doing, it's working for them.
Well, unless they have figured out a way to make each day 48 hours long, then I'm sorry, but I say that's BS. No one out there has reinvented the wheel.

[JoeFeezy]

I think this whole raid and taking the dogs was a scapegoat. These six men and 150 dogs were just a casualty of war. The real prize here were those AADR files. The dogs and people were just a "legitimate" way to make that happen. Be ready for the sh*t to hit the fan. I'm ready to pack up and head south.

[purplepig]

I wasn't referring to anyone breaking the law or not - I was asking a question. I'm not talking about the law - I'm asking how someone can take care of 60 dogs.

Well the answer is quite simple, it is a word that seems to have disappeared to most of the up and coming generation. It is a four letter word, and the weak can never accomplish it. It is quite simply called (are you ready?)
"WORK"!!!!
In our lazy society, this term has morphed into a different definition than older folks understand. Now work is considered going to an office and sitting on your rear end and getting fat and lazy, or maybe work is sitting in front of a camera for 1 hour a day. When people say, "them dog breeders are making money of the dogs back", they are showing their ignorance. Keeping up with a yard is work. Earlly rise, maybe an hour lunch break, then over at dark. That's how a yard is taken care of. And many folks will mentor 1 or 2 folks at a time, who come and work the yard first to learn how to care for the animals, then are usually given their own when shown to be worthy of owning such an animal.
As to the statement insinuating that the police are just enforcing laws, wake up! Most of the laws now are unconstitutional, and the folks that are in office just wipe their rearends with the constitution. And it is not just with my dogs. Heck, everytime they pass a law, they throw something in there with it that is crazy. EX. With the hate crimes bill, if it becomes law, says that I cant(because I am a preacher) preach against "alternative lifestyles". Which in common tongue basically means, I cant say that murder, child molestation, homosexuality, thievery, or anything else that the bible says is sin, is a sin. First offense, would be a $5000 dollar fine, 2nd would be 10 yrs in jail(proposed).
What I see from this is that now you are not being arrested and convicted on what you ARE doing, but what you MIGHT be doing. So I recon in 5 yrs, you get mad, raise your voice, and your busted for murder because you MIGHT have killed the person you got loud with.
I have been saying for a while that we should have joined with the bully, pet bull folks, but the bashing just kept continuing. I said "a house divided against itself will not stand", but I might as well be whistling in the dark.
I myself have been against the law before, and for someone to say that whatever the law does is right and just is a person who believes that Mary Poppins is alive. Once they put their eyes on you, well, if you dont have deep pockets(which now they sieze your assets so you cant mount a defense), you are lost in the system.
What Suki posted brought tears to my eyes, but I see it in action all around us, in every aspect of life. I see it in the street, and I see it in the church, people talk, and dont do. I spoke to some well off people once, and they asked if they could help me, I said, yes, please get some bibles for me to take into the prisons. didnt ask for money, just bibles. You should have seen the heads look in the other direction. Now, not all church folks are like that, but many are, and I dare to say that this is the attitude of most in out country.
I for one believe that our country will fall. not from outside forces, but from within. Heck, from what I understand, there is already money being printed called the "amero" for when Mexico, us and canada join. Do a search, you'll see. It is all being lined up.

I have just been sitting back in the woods pondering, should I get out of the dogs, but when I go out back, and see the smiling faces of them, and how happy they are to see me. And hear "Alligator" go to greeting me with his high pitched squeal, I say to myself, how could I.

So I go my way, talking to as many people as I can, shaking heads, and enlightening people on the wonders of the greatest dog that ever hit the planet, the American Pitbull Terrier, and with that human touch, I have seen many attitudes changing, and once they change, I am sure they effect others in their circles.

thing is this, My grandfather had them, my father has them, I have them, and I desperately want my children to have them, and my grandchildren, should the Lord tarry in His return. I get along with people who have them as pets, I insult some folks who breed them, cause sometimes we dont want to hear the truth. I can get along with the bully breeders, and of course the little game dogs are where my heart is, which does not mean that I pit my dogs, I just simply admire the heart they have.

As to the title of this thread, it seems to me that their lawyers should investigate that fella you was talking about, and rip him a new one on the stand. As to the fate of the dogs, I hope sue is right, and that they arent pts, only time will tell.

As to the registry, I have always suspected that one day all registries that register our dogs will be raided. They are just waiting for the right time. Maybe by the ADBA going all breed might have been the one thing to keep the fed out of their books. I dont know. Only one thing I do know for sure, one day all of this will come to an end, and I hope that I am ready for it when it happens.
Later

[VOICE_of_REASON]

Aroura & purplepig excellent posts!
Who cares, how many dogs people had on their yard! Terry Williams didn't have any, but that didn't stop them, from raiding and destroying his home!

The main point here is people are being persecuted, by an extremist org. with the help of our law enforcement agencies! This needs to be stopped!

If you want it stopped then we all need to help with the people involved defense fund! If you are unwilling to do that, then you might as well send your money to the HSUS, because that is who you are helping!
We have all read the news statements! "Your dog is in good shape"- YOUR A DOG FIGHTER! "you own a break stick" (which every responsible pitbull owner should have)- YOUR A DOG FIGHTER! and so on! We all know what BS, these claims are. Now the claims need to be shown in court what BS they are. And that takes a compident lawyer in court, which in hand takes money!

So please donate to their defense fund:

Roberta Jensen, Attorney
RE: Terry Williams defense fund
5912 E. 22nd St.
Tucson, AZ. 85711

[kinggatorpits]

I've been around this breed and Am bulldogs since I was in diaper's...I've grown up with a great respect for bulldogs and this is uder and complete bullshit....It does matter if the had 160 dogs as long as they were cared for properly. My Ol Man and Uncle had upwards of 80 to 90 dogs when I was a kid and they found time for them each and everyone in a 24 hr time period.....Hell I spent most of my summer's working with them as well. I would say we all come together and put the commie(sp) bullshit to rest or we'll all be next because these idiots will say anything about anyone. I've held back on posting in this thread but I just couldn't anymore cause I'll be damned if anyone walks in a takes any of my dogs.

[Dixiegal]

Well the answer is quite simple, it is a word that seems to have disappeared to most of the up and coming generation. It is a four letter word, and the weak can never accomplish it. It is quite simply called (are you ready?)
"WORK"!!!!
In our lazy society, this term has morphed into a different definition than older folks understand. Now work is considered going to an office and sitting on your rear end and getting fat and lazy, or maybe work is sitting in front of a camera for 1 hour a day. When people say, "them dog breeders are making money of the dogs back", they are showing their ignorance. Keeping up with a yard is work. Earlly rise, maybe an hour lunch break, then over at dark. That's how a yard is taken care of. And many folks will mentor 1 or 2 folks at a time, who come and work the yard first to learn how to care for the animals, then are usually given their own when shown to be worthy of owning such an animal.
As to the statement insinuating that the police are just enforcing laws, wake up! Most of the laws now are unconstitutional, and the folks that are in office just wipe their rearends with the constitution. And it is not just with my dogs. Heck, everytime they pass a law, they throw something in there with it that is crazy. EX. With the hate crimes bill, if it becomes law, says that I cant(because I am a preacher) preach against "alternative lifestyles". Which in common tongue basically means, I cant say that murder, child molestation, homosexuality, thievery, or anything else that the bible says is sin, is a sin. First offense, would be a $5000 dollar fine, 2nd would be 10 yrs in jail(proposed).
What I see from this is that now you are not being arrested and convicted on what you ARE doing, but what you MIGHT be doing. So I recon in 5 yrs, you get mad, raise your voice, and your busted for murder because you MIGHT have killed the person you got loud with.
I have been saying for a while that we should have joined with the bully, pet bull folks, but the bashing just kept continuing. I said "a house divided against itself will not stand", but I might as well be whistling in the dark.
I myself have been against the law before, and for someone to say that whatever the law does is right and just is a person who believes that Mary Poppins is alive. Once they put their eyes on you, well, if you dont have deep pockets(which now they sieze your assets so you cant mount a defense), you are lost in the system.
What Suki posted brought tears to my eyes, but I see it in action all around us, in every aspect of life. I see it in the street, and I see it in the church, people talk, and dont do. I spoke to some well off people once, and they asked if they could help me, I said, yes, please get some bibles for me to take into the prisons. didnt ask for money, just bibles. You should have seen the heads look in the other direction. Now, not all church folks are like that, but many are, and I dare to say that this is the attitude of most in out country.
I for one believe that our country will fall. not from outside forces, but from within. Heck, from what I understand, there is already money being printed called the "amero" for when Mexico, us and canada join. Do a search, you'll see. It is all being lined up.

I have just been sitting back in the woods pondering, should I get out of the dogs, but when I go out back, and see the smiling faces of them, and how happy they are to see me. And hear "Alligator" go to greeting me with his high pitched squeal, I say to myself, how could I.

So I go my way, talking to as many people as I can, shaking heads, and enlightening people on the wonders of the greatest dog that ever hit the planet, the American Pitbull Terrier, and with that human touch, I have seen many attitudes changing, and once they change, I am sure they effect others in their circles.

thing is this, My grandfather had them, my father has them, I have them, and I desperately want my children to have them, and my grandchildren, should the Lord tarry in His return. I get along with people who have them as pets, I insult some folks who breed them, cause sometimes we dont want to hear the truth. I can get along with the bully breeders, and of course the little game dogs are where my heart is, which does not mean that I pit my dogs, I just simply admire the heart they have.

As to the title of this thread, it seems to me that their lawyers should investigate that fella you was talking about, and rip him a new one on the stand. As to the fate of the dogs, I hope sue is right, and that they arent pts, only time will tell.

As to the registry, I have always suspected that one day all registries that register our dogs will be raided. They are just waiting for the right time. Maybe by the ADBA going all breed might have been the one thing to keep the fed out of their books. I dont know. Only one thing I do know for sure, one day all of this will come to an end, and I hope that I am ready for it when it happens.
Later
My post was off topic and had nothing to do with the case at hand. Beyond that, I can WORK as hard as anyone else. What I cannot do, nor can anyone else, is stretch a 24 hour day into 48. I don't have to know anything else to know that. Owning 60 dogs means that most of them are going to be neglected and unsocialized, unless you dogmen have invented the Evelyn Wood method of speedy dog care. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Clean your own house - then go after HSUS.

[kinggatorpits]

I didn't see any dogs in any of those pictures that look human aggervise or DA so how the F**K are they being neg?

[purplepig]

My post was off topic and had nothing to do with the case at hand. Beyond that, I can WORK as hard as anyone else. What I cannot do, nor can anyone else, is stretch a 24 hour day into 48. I don't have to know anything else to know that. Owning 60 dogs means that most of them are going to be neglected and unsocialized, unless you dogmen have invented the Evelyn Wood method of speedy dog care. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Clean your own house - then go after HSUS.

Well, from what you just said, you do not know what work is. I know you think you do, but you dont. Not by my definition. Heck, on the farm, we had 11 pastures of cattle, horses, hogs, and the dogs, plus during crop season we had tomatoes. So if you think taking care of 60 dogs is impossible, you are clueless!!! And this was back before the big round bales where around, and we cut our own hay, and had 6 huge barns we filled with the hay we cut and baled ourselves. We wormed and vaccinated every animal ourselves, and of course had to feed everyday.
Now, maybe YOU cant handle that kind of work, but that dont mean there is not folks who can handle it, and still have a life.

[Dixiegal]

Well, from what you just said, you do not know what work is. I know you think you do, but you dont. Not by my definition. Heck, on the farm, we had 11 pastures of cattle, horses, hogs, and the dogs, plus during crop season we had tomatoes. So if you think taking care of 60 dogs is impossible, you are clueless!!! And this was back before the big round bales where around, and we cut our own hay, and had 6 huge barns we filled with the hay we cut and baled ourselves. We wormed and vaccinated every animal ourselves, and of course had to feed everyday.
Now, maybe YOU cant handle that kind of work, but that dont mean there is not folks who can handle it, and still have a life.
No, you answered my question. Sure, you can feed them - no problem. But dogs aren't livestock. And we're not talking about a farm situation - but never mind. It's no use. If someone wants to have 60 dogs kenneled up all day, go for it. They'd be better off in a shelter, under those circumstances.

[JRSPITS]

No, you answered my question. Sure, you can feed them - no problem. But dogs aren't livestock. And we're not talking about a farm situation - but never mind. It's no use. If someone wants to have 60 dogs kenneled up all day, go for it. They'd be better off in a shelter, under those circumstances.
Just because someone has 60 dogs doesn't mean they can't give them a quality life. I have seen people with only one dog neglect it with hours to spare. Time isn't the issue, the QUALITY of the time is!

[purplepig]

No, you answered my question. Sure, you can feed them - no problem. But dogs aren't livestock. And we're not talking about a farm situation - but never mind. It's no use. If someone wants to have 60 dogs kenneled up all day, go for it. They'd be better off in a shelter, under those circumstances.

I'll start a new thread to reply to this statement, we have drifted too far from the original post.

[MinorThreat]

Dixiegirl, You view 60 dogs as to many to give proper care: socilazation, neglected ect.

How many dogs would be maximum for proper care before they should be sent to the shelter? Whats the limit in your opinion

[Dreamer]

Why would anyone that understands the dire straits this breed is in all over the world keep BREEDING and BREEDING and selling them to whoever and WHERE ever?

You guys have got to be aware of the absolutely horrific conditions many of these dogs are ending up in!

Dreamer

[GSDbulldog]

Why are we even discussing the man's breeding practices? Last time I checked, there is no concrete definition of "backyard breeder"- nor is there a law that dictates just how one is supposed to run their breeding program.

For the record, I do think that mass-producing our dogs and selling them off to the public is one of our biggest problems today. But this thread isn't about that... It's about just how easy it is for these organizations to target, and eventually destroy, a person's life, hobby, and dogs.

[Dixiegal]

Dixiegirl, You view 60 dogs as to many to give proper care: socilazation, neglected ect.

How many dogs would be maximum for proper care before they should be sent to the shelter? Whats the limit in your opinion
That was a facetious comment, but my answer would be based on the fact that there are 24 hours in a day. Pit bulls, being terriers, need exercise, don't they? For one person, it would take 15 hours a day for me to give each dog only 15 minutes of attention, and that's if I did nothing else. 60 dogs is a ton of poop, pee and everything else to clean up - so add another 2 hours for that. You're now at 17.

I just don't think it's possible without an army of yard hands, and the person in question didn't have any, to my knowledge (I'm not referring to Patrick). You can say that 5 minutes of "quality attention" are all the dog needs, but I'll never buy that. You don't have to be an expert in anything to know that a dog locked in a kennel 23.5 hours out of every day is neglected. They're social animals, not cattle. Sorry - my opinion.

[Suki]

My post was off topic and had nothing to do with the case at hand. Beyond that, I can WORK as hard as anyone else. What I cannot do, nor can anyone else, is stretch a 24 hour day into 48. I don't have to know anything else to know that. Owning 60 dogs means that most of them are going to be neglected and unsocialized, unless you dogmen have invented the Evelyn Wood method of speedy dog care. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Clean your own house - then go after HSUS.just to clarify, granted 60 dogs is a lot of animals to care for, but here at work, (for an example) we can care for up too 100+ med-large dogs and do. (and it's school vacation week here, so we have close to 200 hundred dogs now)it is the animal care attendant's job to ensure that each and every dog is watered, fed, medicated, if need be, and then taken out. each kennel staff member is required to take care of these dogs. it's their JOB!!!!!! they are played with, socialized with, have clean bedding when required and YES, all within an 8 hour shift.
easy work? no f^&ckin way. it's god damn exhausting, but impossible? hardly... and yes, it's done on a daily basis, been here 3 years now and see it 365, so, gutta strongly disagree with you here. is it the "best, most suitable" suitation for everyone? perhaps not, but inhumane, neglectful or undo able in an 8hr shift, or even in 24 hours? hell, freakin, NO, or i'd have to start firing people...
having a large amount of animals should not infer that the animals are neglected. MANY owners/kennels have help, who have CHOSEN to help. i sincerely wish people would not assume about the condition of animals, due to the amount of numbers owned. it's this very mentally that's slowly bringing about the demise of this great breed....

[Suki]

I didn't know about this. Probably too late now, right? Maybe people were too afraid to submit anything with their names and addresses, in the belief that they would be next to come under the microscope. Not that that excuses not doing anything, but treachery can be an ugly thing, and we all need to keep our eyes open for it.

not sure if it's too late...
is it really, ever????????

and while i agree with your thinking, my feeling is, if we all sit around and do nothing

then
nothing gets done...

and again, i included that letter to make a point, ONLY=there IS strength in numbers

[MinorThreat]

these dogs are much happier on chain spots then spending their days in kennels, I'll give you that.

Dogs in kennels are not exercised the way dogs are running their chains spots throughout the day, in fact most of them exercise more then the dogs that spend 1hr day at the dog park.

Dixiegirl, Would you feel better about the situation if the dogs were chained out vs kennels?

[Dixiegal]

these dogs are much happier on chain spots then spending their days in kennels, I'll give you that.

Dogs in kennels are not exercised the way dogs are running their chains spots throughout the day, in fact most of them exercise more then the dogs that spend 1hr day at the dog park.

Dixiegirl, Would you feel better about the situation if the dogs were chained out vs kennels?
It's not about what would make me feel better, and I didn't mean to insult anyone. FWIW, I agree with what you just said. I do take exception when I see people who claim to love the breed and then take on way more dogs than they can possibly care for. On the "tree hugger" side, these people are called hoarders.

[jadedpitgirl]

It's not about what would make me feel better, and I didn't mean to insult anyone. FWIW, I agree with what you just said. I do take exception when I see people who claim to love the breed and then take on way more dogs than they can possibly care for. On the "tree hugger" side, these people are called hoarders.
You are sadly mistaken! Hoarders are people who have a pshycotic disorder, who collect animals like antiques, and these animals ARE NOT TAKEN CARE OF AT ALL. Those animals are what you would call neglected:mad:

Owning 60 dogs in a breeding program is not as far-fetched as one would seem. These people do have yard help and just because you didn't see it posted on the 6 o'clock news doesn't mean he was doing it by himself. Why don't you wake up and realize that this is not YOUR business. Hell, it's not the business of any of us here. The only reason the rest of us are concerned is because it's a matter of rights. The government is taking our rights every single, freaking day. How would you like to be told that you NO LONGER have the right to choose a car to drive. Even though you are the one who is going to make the payments, you will be paying for maintenance and they gas to drive it? What would you do? Would you not be upset? What if the government told you that by law, you can only have one child? Any more than that and they will be seized and killed immediately? How would you feel about that matter?I'm going to take a gamble here and assume that you don't have children; hell, for that matter I will assume that you don't even own a dog. You probably drive one of these hybrid cars because it saves the ozone, and you are adamant about publicizing your hatred for the American Soldier and the freedom he brings to us. You probably even send your money to PeTA because they are the only one's trying to save the poor animals in this country. Am I right?

Here's my post from another board who said these people got what they deserved; I hope you read it because it is specifically intended for people of your nature.


Wether you agree with what they do with thier dogs or not, the bottom line is that our RIGHT to our own PROPERTY is being taken every single day. This is in violation of the 14th Ammendment of the United States of America. If you don't know what it states, please look it up.
The HSUS is getting to be just as bad as PeTA, and as far as I'm concerned, they are looking to make an example out of anyone they can, including a freaking senior citizen! What a bunch of fucking morons they are.
Keep this in mind, ANYONE OF YOU who own any type of "paraphenalia" are at risk!!!! This includes spring poles, break sticks and tread mills. If you give your own shots, you can be considered a fucking dog fighter.
Let's wake the fuck up people and quit jumping everyone's asses for doing what they have the right to do with thier own property! It is NOT OUR BUSINESS how someone treats thier animals, especially when it is kept out of the publics' eye. No offense to any of you, but I feel like everyone has the right to keep thier property the way they see fit. ESPECIALLY when none of those dogs show any signs of abuse at all!!!


P.S. You say those dogs would be better off in a shelter, but do you realize that a shelter can keep hundreds of dogs (and cats on top of it) and still not do a job as well as that man did when it came to taking care of his animals? When is the last time you were in shelter? Did you see all the dog-shit in the kennels? Did you notice how scared all of those dogs were because they haven't been socialized in three fucking months? Better yet, did you watch those dogs get put to sleep and thrown into the dumpster because the shelter just had to make room for all those new dogs they publicized from last weeks raid?

[Aurora]

It's not about what would make me feel better, and I didn't mean to insult anyone. FWIW, I agree with what you just said. I do take exception when I see people who claim to love the breed and then take on way more dogs than they can possibly care for. On the "tree hugger" side, these people are called hoarders.
Sounds like you're very familiar to the "tree hugger side"

[Dreamer]

Why are we even discussing the man's breeding practices? Last time I checked, there is no concrete definition of "backyard breeder"- nor is there a law that dictates just how one is supposed to run their breeding program.

For the record, I do think that mass-producing our dogs and selling them off to the public is one of our biggest problems today. But this thread isn't about that... It's about just how easy it is for these organizations to target, and eventually destroy, a person's life, hobby, and dogs.

No,the thread isn't about that. In fact, if these people are going to be taken down, I'd just as soon it's because they are caught in the ACT of dogfighting. I have a problem with what is going on in THIS case.

BUT, I AM making a judgement on their breeding practices -- as legal as they are. These people shouldn't need a law to realize that they are breeding a lot at a time the breed does NOT need it. They should be able to regulate THEMSELVES! To me, it doesn't make sense that they don't KNOW, on their own judgement, that it's WRONG and detrimental for the breed they love! They are making it EASY to be targeted! They KNOW that being targeted means a sad end FOR THEIR DOGS! How difficult IS it to just stop breeding for a while? WHY do they want so many Pit Bulls out there owned by so many people? WHY would you risk losing your dogs like that?

Dreamer

[MinorThreat]

you honestly dont know what youre talking about:

The "suspects" in the AZ bust: Terry Williams and Bobby Smith dont sell dogs to the public, they dont advertise on the internet and dont have a web site.

Pat has a few litters per year, he's doesnt do that many breedings really, he's guilty of keeping a lot of dogs and thats about it but thats not breaking any laws.

are you ok now?

[Marty]

Update:

The remains of more than a dozen dogs were found behind the home believed to belong to a man authorites call a 'dog fighting kingpin.'

On Tuesday, authorities seized more than 150 dogs from four homes in Pima County. The dogs are believed to be part of a dog fighting ring that operated here and allegedly sold fighters all over the country.

Six arrests were made, including Mahlon Patrick, who authorities say is one of the biggest dog fighting breeders in the country.

News 4 has learned, the FBI and the Department of Agriculture (USDA) will be assisting the Pima County Sheriff's Department in the investigation. The USDA was the lead agency in the investigation involving Michael Vick.

Today, investigators were back on the property where they made some very disturbing finds: more than half a dozen grave sites, where they found the remains of dogs, including puppies.

Sgt. Terry Parish says it could be that the puppies: "were not of adequate size or they could have been used as a bait animal to get the blood lust going."

Or, investigators say, the puppies could have had medical conditions and died. Evidence found near the puppies, seized earlier this week, indicates that the dogs had infections in their feet from standing in their own feces.

Detective Theresa Deschenes, who's been working the case for a year, comes upon another site...and is amazed.

She found a gravesite where a black plastic bag was buried. Inside, remains of a dog that hadn't been there long. The body had not yet started decomposing.

And that could be very helpful to investigators in finding out how the animal died.

Sgt. Parish tells us, "(PCSO) Sheriff Dupnik isn't just interested in putting a dent in this crime; we want to put it out of business and make sure it never starts again. Make sure these players never do this type of activity ever again."



http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=7907995&nav=HMO6HMaW

Here we go with the bait dog shit again :(

[4G63]

The propaganda spewed forth by that "journalist" is disgusting. The really sad part is the fact that so many people are devoid of any reasoning ability, and will eat it all up without question.

Dogs die. Their owners bury them. 12+ (13?) dead dogs on a yard of 100+ that has been in operation for many years sure doesn't sound out of line to me.

If the recently deceased dog referenced in the article had any signs of fight induced trauma, or any other suspicious injuries, I'm sure it would have been stated (and exploited) already. What a joke

It's truly sickening to see this shit go on.

[Dixiegal]

You are sadly mistaken! Hoarders are people who have a pshycotic disorder, who collect animals like antiques, and these animals ARE NOT TAKEN CARE OF AT ALL. Those animals are what you would call neglected:mad:

Owning 60 dogs in a breeding program is not as far-fetched as one would seem. These people do have yard help and just because you didn't see it posted on the 6 o'clock news doesn't mean he was doing it by himself. Why don't you wake up and realize that this is not YOUR business. Hell, it's not the business of any of us here. The only reason the rest of us are concerned is because it's a matter of rights. The government is taking our rights every single, freaking day. How would you like to be told that you NO LONGER have the right to choose a car to drive. Even though you are the one who is going to make the payments, you will be paying for maintenance and they gas to drive it? What would you do? Would you not be upset? What if the government told you that by law, you can only have one child? Any more than that and they will be seized and killed immediately? How would you feel about that matter?I'm going to take a gamble here and assume that you don't have children; hell, for that matter I will assume that you don't even own a dog. You probably drive one of these hybrid cars because it saves the ozone, and you are adamant about publicizing your hatred for the American Soldier and the freedom he brings to us. You probably even send your money to PeTA because they are the only one's trying to save the poor animals in this country. Am I right?
?
No, I detest PeTA. I do have a dog, and don't drive a hybrid car. I can see who you're mad at - I am not in that group. People may be more diverse than you realize.


Here's my post from another board who said these people got what they deserved; I hope you read it because it is specifically intended for people of your nature.

I never said that they "got what they deserved" - you must be thinking of someone else. I wasn't even commenting on this case.




P.S. You say those dogs would be better off in a shelter, but do you realize that a shelter can keep hundreds of dogs (and cats on top of it) and still not do a job as well as that man did when it came to taking care of his animals? When is the last time you were in shelter? Did you see all the dog-shit in the kennels? Did you notice how scared all of those dogs were because they haven't been socialized in three fucking months? Better yet, did you watch those dogs get put to sleep and thrown into the dumpster because the shelter just had to make room for all those new dogs they publicized from last weeks raid?
When was the last time I was in a shelter? Today. I volunteer at my local shelter every week. The dogs there are pretty well socialized because people like me go in and walk them, take them outside, etc. And some get put down - those are hard to deal with because we have a tendency to get attached to them. A lot of the ones who end up getting put down are pit bulls - we must get a litter of pit bull puppies once a week. The pit bull population is out of control, did you know that? I've never seen a dog in there from a fight bust - they are all strays or from byb's.

[jadedpitgirl]

No, I detest PeTA. I do have a dog, and don't drive a hybrid car. I can see who you're mad at - I am not in that group. People may be more diverse than you realize.

Yep, people are absolutely diverse; but it's very hard to believe when someone is spewing neglect from someone they have never met, let alone know, and is going by the media bullshit that PeTA and the HSUS create for the naive public.


I never said that they "got what they deserved" - you must be thinking of someone else. I wasn't even commenting on this case.

I wasn't trying to group you with those from the other board, I was just letting you know what started that rant.


When was the last time I was in a shelter? Today. I volunteer at my local shelter every week. The dogs there are pretty well socialized because people like me go in and walk them, take them outside, etc. And some get put down - those are hard to deal with because we have a tendency to get attached to them. A lot of the ones who end up getting put down are pit bulls - we must get a litter of pit bull puppies once a week. The pit bull population is out of control, did you know that? I've never seen a dog in there from a fight bust - they are all strays or from byb's.

Yeah, I'm very well aware of the plight of the American Pit Bull Terrier. And like you said, you've never seen one from a fight-bust. That's because those dogmen (you know, the ones that you said neglect thier dogs) keep what they breed, thier dogs aren't sold to every jack-ass Tom, Dick and Harry, AND they are WELL TAKEN CARE OF!!! The only way you will see dogs from a "fight-bust" are those that have been STOLEN by the HSUS or PeTA.

Dixiegal, I just don't know wether to trust you or not. I'm not saying your for PeTA, but I'm not convinced that you are against them either. And since I haven't seen a post from you, aside from this thread, I'm just gonna believe that you are nothing more than a troll. And while I respect you're right to have an opinion, I don't keep the same views:mad:

[kane85]

Update:

The remains of more than a dozen dogs were found behind the home believed to belong to a man authorites call a 'dog fighting kingpin.'

On Tuesday, authorities seized more than 150 dogs from four homes in Pima County. The dogs are believed to be part of a dog fighting ring that operated here and allegedly sold fighters all over the country.

Six arrests were made, including Mahlon Patrick, who authorities say is one of the biggest dog fighting breeders in the country.

News 4 has learned, the FBI and the Department of Agriculture (USDA) will be assisting the Pima County Sheriff's Department in the investigation. The USDA was the lead agency in the investigation involving Michael Vick.

Today, investigators were back on the property where they made some very disturbing finds: more than half a dozen grave sites, where they found the remains of dogs, including puppies.

Sgt. Terry Parish says it could be that the puppies: "were not of adequate size or they could have been used as a bait animal to get the blood lust going."

Or, investigators say, the puppies could have had medical conditions and died. Evidence found near the puppies, seized earlier this week, indicates that the dogs had infections in their feet from standing in their own feces.

Detective Theresa Deschenes, who's been working the case for a year, comes upon another site...and is amazed.

She found a gravesite where a black plastic bag was buried. Inside, remains of a dog that hadn't been there long. The body had not yet started decomposing.

And that could be very helpful to investigators in finding out how the animal died.

Sgt. Parish tells us, "(PCSO) Sheriff Dupnik isn't just interested in putting a dent in this crime; we want to put it out of business and make sure it never starts again. Make sure these players never do this type of activity ever again."



http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=7907995&nav=HMO6HMaW

Here we go with the bait dog shit again :(
Yeah bait dog and useing puppys for it so the dogs could get a bllod lust how stupid dose that sounds iam telling you they don't know elbows from assholes f**cking sad

[simms]

My post was off topic and had nothing to do with the case at hand. Beyond that, I can WORK as hard as anyone else. What I cannot do, nor can anyone else, is stretch a 24 hour day into 48. I don't have to know anything else to know that. Owning 60 dogs means that most of them are going to be neglected and unsocialized, unless you dogmen have invented the Evelyn Wood method of speedy dog care. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Clean your own house - then go after HSUS.
Clean your own house eh?....LOL That term is funny and you should find somthin else to throw around! If ppl realy new the standard of care these shelters maintain these animals in they would be appauled! You should come work for me, I'll show you what it means to care for kennel ....you wouldnt be playing with dogs all day.

It's called sacrafice and dedication that ppl are able to care for thier animals. These animals that were confiscated are by far in overall better health and mental state than these curs you are handling day to day.

This is all that is required by law.

.1 food
.2 water
.3 shelter
.4 medical care, if injured. vaccines required by law, rabies.

Less than that is considered neglect. Dont put the horse before the cart, socialization and what defines the standard of this luxury is not required by law.....nor should it be!

[Dixiegal]

Dixiegal, I just don't know wether to trust you or not. I'm not saying your for PeTA, but I'm not convinced that you are against them either. And since I haven't seen a post from you, aside from this thread, I'm just gonna believe that you are nothing more than a troll. And while I respect you're right to have an opinion, I don't keep the same views:mad:
You don't have to trust me, and no, I don't usually post here because my views are also different from yours. I'm not sure I need to convince you of anything where PeTA is concerned, other than to comment that you are making the very same kinds of assumptions and generalizations about me that you claim to abhor when it's done to you. Trolls are looking for arguments - that wasn't my purpose. I'm just an average Joe - and there's no reason that I shouldn't be able to state an opinion without people going nuclear. My timing may be way off - but that's it.

[bahamutt99]

Why are we even discussing the man's breeding practices? Last time I checked, there is no concrete definition of "backyard breeder"- nor is there a law that dictates just how one is supposed to run their breeding program.
Right. And even if someone has piss-poor breeding ethics, should they be carted off to jail for it? When we talk about reputable breeding, we're referring to the ideal. When we talk about someone who has 2 or 3 dogs, all who stay in the house, all who get constant socialization and attention, vet care for every hangnail, etc., that is the ideal, at least to some people. A person should not be decried as the devil for simply doing what is okay or adequate, or even for doing what is the bare minimum. Someday maybe we'll be able to get all the dogs inside on satin pillows with kongs stuffed with organic peanut butter, but that day is hopefully not now or even tomorrow. We should not look down on folks who still treat them like dogs and live up to a standard of care, even if its not the standard everybody would choose for their own dogs.

[simms]

You don't have to trust me, and no, I don't usually post here because my views are also different from yours. I'm not sure I need to convince you of anything where PeTA is concerned, other than to comment that you are making the very same kinds of assumptions and generalizations about me that you claim to abhor when it's done to you. Trolls are looking for arguments - that wasn't my purpose. I'm just an average Joe - and there's no reason that I shouldn't be able to state an opinion without people going nuclear. My timing may be way off - but that's it.
No one should run anyone off. Unless your a mod other wise free will and the ability to think criticly.

[bahamutt99]

Today, investigators were back on the property where they made some very disturbing finds: more than half a dozen grave sites, where they found the remains of dogs, including puppies.
This is just goofy to me. I've owned way less dogs than these guys, and I've had to bury puppies. We buried a cat at our last home. Is it a new thing that you're not allowed to bury an animal once it dies? I guess most people cremate their dogs nowadays. Blah.

[simms]

This is just goofy to me. I've owned way less dogs than these guys, and I've had to bury puppies. We buried a cat at our last home. Is it a new thing that you're not allowed to bury an animal once it dies? I guess most people cremate their dogs nowadays. Blah.
Depends on your city law. In county you can bury your pets on your own private property usualy. It's an angle they are using to fuel the fire.

Not against the law to put your own animal down, as long is it is done humain. That can be dictated by where you live as well.

[Rockstar]

They're social animals, not cattle. Sorry - my opinion....and cattle aren't social animals??? Allow me to enlighten you: Cows, pigs, sheep, horses, goats, chickens -yes, even chickens- are among the thousands of species of highly social animals. Why on Earth should it be acceptable for five or ten people to provide care for a couple hundred cattle, but ludicrous to entertain the idea that one or two people could possibly give sufficient care to sixty or so domestic canines???

[simms]

...and cattle aren't social animals??? Allow me to enlighten you: Cows, pigs, sheep, horses, goats, chickens -yes, even chickens- are among the thousands of species of highly social animals. Why on Earth should it be acceptable for five or ten people to provide care for a couple hundred cattle, but ludicrous to entertain the idea that one or two people could possibly give sufficient care to sixty or so domestic canines???
They can sure meet what is required by law!

[Dixiegal]

...and cattle aren't social animals??? Allow me to enlighten you: Cows, pigs, sheep, horses, goats, chickens -yes, even chickens- are among the thousands of species of highly social animals. Why on Earth should it be acceptable for five or ten people to provide care for a couple hundred cattle, but ludicrous to entertain the idea that one or two people could possibly give sufficient care to sixty or so domestic canin