Lesson learned? Midlifeloki and other members listen up!!

[Rocky H. Balboa]

I just finished reading through Midlifeloki's thread. I believe to understand both sides (her's and other members). Yet, I do not agree with how it was handled by most of you. Why are you people always looking for the "soap opera" in every story? Why cannot you believe that reality is not always as straight forward as expected?

I am neither defending nor attacking anyone with this thread. I opened this thread in an attempt to smack some sense into those holly ones that do no harm and make no mistakes. Brothers and sisters, we all make mistakes and errors in life. I, you, they, and them have made mistakes of different degrees. The main point is to learn from them. Midlifeloki, regardless of the specifics, you shot your dogs and accepted full responsibility. It takes an above-average person (IMO) to choose to defend someone else's dog over their own. Frankly, I do not know what i would have done under the same circumstances. Unfortunately, you were not prepared or educated in handling scuffles of this sort. That said, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to separate three fighting dogs by one person. Anyway, I would like to first direct my thread to Midlifeloki and then to individual quotes. Midlifeloki, your thread MUST not be without a lesson learned. Therefore, let us start:

I am a pretty responsible owner never had any issues have always taken care of my dogs they love people and whatnot This morning my husband let the dogs out to use the bathroom we always watch them and make sure they go and they run back onto the porch we have a fenced yard. Today we let spoon and baby out and let them go I was doing something inside and went back out to get them to notice baby and spoon were nowhere to be found. they had dug a hole under the fence and were attacking the dog dog next door. My first instinct was to try and seperate it and that is what I tried to do I flew around the fence no shoes and all and grabbed baby and I did EVERYTHING I could do to try and get them off of her I hit them sticks I almost broke babys leg trying to get her off but spoon and baby would not let go for anything I tried I did everything I could do to help and got bit in the process but I did not even notive it until I got inside .
Your instincts were correct but your preparation was lacking. In a situation like this, we must first control ourselves. Why? Because your excitement will increase the level of activity of the dogs. In other words, dogs feed off human emotions. Therefore, if you scream and tug, smack, etc it will increase their excitement and level of attack. By you pulling on a dog, you are making it a tug-o-war....that is a no-no.

In a situation like this, you need to have enough collars, leashes, and breaking sticks for every dog involved. The sticks should be use at the same time and PROPERLY to avoid personal injury. If done correctly, it should take no more than 10 seconds to get them to separate. YOU AND OTHERS MUST MOUNT AND HOLD EACH DOG WHILE USING BREAKING STICKS. If you are unsure, do a search on how to properly use a stick.

So I ran back inside and grabbed my gun..... I have NEVER in my entire life thought I would ever use it unless it was at the gun range and I shot my dogs Baby died instantly cause I shot her in the heart but spoon I shot her once and she still kept attacking her so I shot her again animal control is having her humanely euthanized immediatly that is what I wanted them to do. I KNOW in my heart I did the right thing because it was not the neighbors dogs fault.
Obviously, you were not able to separate them. You made your decision and chose to save the "innocent" dog in the scuffle. To me, you were unselfish in your decision. You could have chosen to say, "Oh well, i tried" and let things finish at their (dogs) discretion. You reminded me of when I had to almost KO my red dog when a Pug jumped in his mouth. It was my first (or one of) experience with such an event. In the end, I cracked my boy's head with something that looked like a 4x4 leaving a cut on his forehead. That day, I made my own breaking sticks (which were ultimately replaced by real sticks). I also learned to be super aware of my surroundings and to NEVER walk dogs while listening to music. Since, I have saved more dogs than I would like to mention.

What if there had been a kid outside...I dont want to be responsible for my dogs killing a child. I LOVE pitbulls and I know they have that aggression issue but I never thought it would happen to me i even tried to prepare myself for it if it ever happend but I never thought it would be like this and I just feel like such a bad owner for letting this happen. I feel I set my dogs up to fail... its my fault.
HOLD ON A SECOND!!!!!! Here you are waaaaay off. What does animal aggression has to do with kids or humans in general? Do you not know by now that human aggression and animal aggression are totally different things? My dogs are VERY animal aggressive and VERY human loving. Your above paragraph represents what the humaniacs would like the public to believe. "they seem fine with humans but they can turn at any moment". Ignorance!!!! One thing about dogs I love most is that they are not TWO-FACED. If they do not like you, they will let you know ASAP. Humans are the masters of deception.

Your dogs did not fail....how do you figure that? They did want IS natural to them. In fact, most normal dogs (AND animals in general) will attack another animal in and around their territory. If you want me to say that you failed, then, you failed at preventing them from fulfilling their need for confrontation. I am sure your dogs were enjoying themselves in battle. This is a Spartan breed not a couch potato one. If you own dogs off matching lines, then, you must acknowledge and prepare and secure yourself/surrounding for it.

OK, I was going to quote and reply to some of the other posts on the closed thread. Due to time constrains, i will either not do it or do it later on (weekend).

the point here is that if anyone here is going to critic, then, you must also educate. The lady shot her own dogs.....she could have chosen to shoot the other dog. Mia, I am pretty sure you would have preferred "that guy" to have shot his dog instead of your Miakoda....correct? I am sure you would have seen him in a totally different light.

Things always happen......it is up to you and I to learn from them.

Let him or her who is free of sin throw the first rock.

YIS,


Rocky H. Balboa

[ABK]

Awesome post!!!! :D :D :D

[Suki]

+1...... ^....

[Midlifeloki]

I just finished reading through Midlifeloki's thread. I believe to understand both sides (her's and other members). Yet, I do not agree with how it was handled by most of you. Why are you people always looking for the "soap opera" in every story? Why cannot you believe that reality is not always as straight forward as expected?

I am neither defending nor attacking anyone with this thread. I opened this thread in an attempt to smack some sense into those holly ones that do no harm and make no mistakes. Brothers and sisters, we all make mistakes and errors in life. I, you, they, and them have made mistakes of different degrees. The main point is to learn from them. Midlifeloki, regardless of the specifics, you shot your dogs and accepted full responsibility. It takes an above-average person (IMO) to choose to defend someone else's dog over their own. Frankly, I do not know what i would have done under the same circumstances. Unfortunately, you were not prepared or educated in handling scuffles of this sort. That said, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to separate three fighting dogs by one person. Anyway, I would like to first direct my thread to Midlifeloki and then to individual quotes. Midlifeloki, your thread MUST not be without a lesson learned. Therefore, let us start:


Your instincts were correct but your preparation was lacking. In a situation like this, we must first control ourselves. Why? Because your excitement will increase the level of activity of the dogs. In other words, dogs feed off human emotions. Therefore, if you scream and tug, smack, etc it will increase their excitement and level of attack. By you pulling on a dog, you are making it a tug-o-war....that is a no-no.

In a situation like this, you need to have enough collars, leashes, and breaking sticks for every dog involved. The sticks should be use at the same time and PROPERLY to avoid personal injury. If done correctly, it should take no more than 10 seconds to get them to separate. YOU AND OTHERS MUST MOUNT AND HOLD EACH DOG WHILE USING BREAKING STICKS. If you are unsure, do a search on how to properly use a stick.


Obviously, you were not able to separate them. You made your decision and chose to save the "innocent" dog in the scuffle. To me, you were unselfish in your decision. You could have chosen to say, "Oh well, i tried" and let things finish at their (dogs) discretion. You reminded me of when I had to almost KO my red dog when a Pug jumped in his mouth. It was my first (or one of) experience with such an event. In the end, I cracked my boy's head with something that looked like a 4x4 leaving a cut on his forehead. That day, I made my own breaking sticks (which were ultimately replaced by real sticks). I also learned to be super aware of my surroundings and to NEVER walk dogs while listening to music. Since, I have saved more dogs than I would like to mention.


HOLD ON A SECOND!!!!!! Here you are waaaaay off. What does animal aggression has to do with kids or humans in general? Do you not know by now that human aggression and animal aggression are totally different things? My dogs are VERY animal aggressive and VERY human loving. Your above paragraph represents what the humaniacs would like the public to believe. "they seem fine with humans but they can turn at any moment". Ignorance!!!! One thing about dogs I love most is that they are not TWO-FACED. If they do not like you, they will let you know ASAP. Humans are the masters of deception.

Your dogs did not fail....how do you figure that? They did want IS natural to them. In fact, most normal dogs (AND animals in general) will attack another animal in and around their territory. If you want me to say that you failed, then, you failed at preventing them from fulfilling their need for confrontation. I am sure your dogs were enjoying themselves in battle. This is a Spartan breed not a couch potato one. If you own dogs off matching lines, then, you must acknowledge and prepare and secure yourself/surrounding for it.

OK, I was going to quote and reply to some of the other posts on the closed thread. Due to time constrains, i will either not do it or do it later on (weekend).

the point here is that if anyone here is going to critic, then, you must also educate. The lady shot her own dogs.....she could have chosen to shoot the other dog. Mia, I am pretty sure you would have preferred "that guy" to have shot his dog instead of your Miakoda....correct? I am sure you would have seen him in a totally different light.

Things always happen......it is up to you and I to learn from them.

Let him or her who is free of sin throw the first rock.

YIS,


Rocky H. Balboa


since this thread was directed towards me I want to say THANK YOU for doing this.
thank you for taking the time to analyze this and give advise.
I still love this breed and getting my 2 new dogs has helped me alot and I want to continue to learn about them and help educate about them.

[simms]

I just finished reading through Midlifeloki's thread. I believe to understand both sides (her's and other members). Yet, I do not agree with how it was handled by most of you. Why are you people always looking for the "soap opera" in every story? Why cannot you believe that reality is not always as straight forward as expected?

I am neither defending nor attacking anyone with this thread. I opened this thread in an attempt to smack some sense into those holly ones that do no harm and make no mistakes. Brothers and sisters, we all make mistakes and errors in life. I, you, they, and them have made mistakes of different degrees. The main point is to learn from them. Midlifeloki, regardless of the specifics, you shot your dogs and accepted full responsibility. It takes an above-average person (IMO) to choose to defend someone else's dog over their own. Frankly, I do not know what i would have done under the same circumstances. Unfortunately, you were not prepared or educated in handling scuffles of this sort. That said, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to separate three fighting dogs by one person. Anyway, I would like to first direct my thread to Midlifeloki and then to individual quotes. Midlifeloki, your thread MUST not be without a lesson learned. Therefore, let us start:


Your instincts were correct but your preparation was lacking. In a situation like this, we must first control ourselves. Why? Because your excitement will increase the level of activity of the dogs. In other words, dogs feed off human emotions. Therefore, if you scream and tug, smack, etc it will increase their excitement and level of attack. By you pulling on a dog, you are making it a tug-o-war....that is a no-no.

In a situation like this, you need to have enough collars, leashes, and breaking sticks for every dog involved. The sticks should be use at the same time and PROPERLY to avoid personal injury. If done correctly, it should take no more than 10 seconds to get them to separate. YOU AND OTHERS MUST MOUNT AND HOLD EACH DOG WHILE USING BREAKING STICKS. If you are unsure, do a search on how to properly use a stick.


Obviously, you were not able to separate them. You made your decision and chose to save the "innocent" dog in the scuffle. To me, you were unselfish in your decision. You could have chosen to say, "Oh well, i tried" and let things finish at their (dogs) discretion. You reminded me of when I had to almost KO my red dog when a Pug jumped in his mouth. It was my first (or one of) experience with such an event. In the end, I cracked my boy's head with something that looked like a 4x4 leaving a cut on his forehead. That day, I made my own breaking sticks (which were ultimately replaced by real sticks). I also learned to be super aware of my surroundings and to NEVER walk dogs while listening to music. Since, I have saved more dogs than I would like to mention.


HOLD ON A SECOND!!!!!! Here you are waaaaay off. What does animal aggression has to do with kids or humans in general? Do you not know by now that human aggression and animal aggression are totally different things? My dogs are VERY animal aggressive and VERY human loving. Your above paragraph represents what the humaniacs would like the public to believe. "they seem fine with humans but they can turn at any moment". Ignorance!!!! One thing about dogs I love most is that they are not TWO-FACED. If they do not like you, they will let you know ASAP. Humans are the masters of deception.

Your dogs did not fail....how do you figure that? They did want IS natural to them. In fact, most normal dogs (AND animals in general) will attack another animal in and around their territory. If you want me to say that you failed, then, you failed at preventing them from fulfilling their need for confrontation. I am sure your dogs were enjoying themselves in battle. This is a Spartan breed not a couch potato one. If you own dogs off matching lines, then, you must acknowledge and prepare and secure yourself/surrounding for it.

OK, I was going to quote and reply to some of the other posts on the closed thread. Due to time constrains, i will either not do it or do it later on (weekend).

the point here is that if anyone here is going to critic, then, you must also educate. The lady shot her own dogs.....she could have chosen to shoot the other dog. Mia, I am pretty sure you would have preferred "that guy" to have shot his dog instead of your Miakoda....correct? I am sure you would have seen him in a totally different light.

Things always happen......it is up to you and I to learn from them.

Let him or her who is free of sin throw the first rock.

YIS,


Rocky H. Balboa

I'm glad the thread was closed before I saw it. Truthfully it made me want to vomitt! I apprieciate your efforts Rocky....

As far as casting stones.... Ive had this breed for 16 yrs, Ive never had an issue like that an not likely to either.

That particular poster is an accident waiting to happen again.

[misterdogman]

I have had enough yard accidents with either strays or loose dogs to be calm and prepared with either sticks and friends to help or maybe no tools and no friends around... and just came in to it with a calm demeanor to seperate the dogs without freaking out but some people who underestimate the breed dont see something like this coming due yes to some ignorance of the breed but also the fight. Some people see the violence and think one of the dogs is going to die immediately or something... when... if you waited... sought a game plan... and had some tools... you would have realized this could have been seperated most likely by yourself with 1 stick and youd have had 1 neighbors dog running home with some bites and maybe your dogs with a couple scratches. But with the commotion and fear and unknowing the worst thing possible happened here.
I think Rocky is right in educating but maybe we should step back and look at the bigger picture. I dont think educating is the first process with you here. You mentioned you already got 2 new dogs
quote{"I still love this breed and getting my 2 new dogs has helped me alot and I want to continue to learn about them and help educate about them."}quote.
Why? Please give me 1 good reason as to why in the world you just got 2 more dogs? Maybe instead of learning about the breed in mid-step you should wait and learn first,.. then take the first step, this breed is not for everyone and if you choose to own it you need to have a breaking stick and collars and leashes that can assist you and most importantly you need to know your breed capabilities and specifics. It takes years to be a thourough and proficient APBT owner/Handler... Not doing so before owning this breed is not only irresponsible but it puts the burden of educating you while horrendous things like this happen to the dogs you own at any given moment on everyone else. Thats not fair to the animals who die or get harmed or ruined in the process just while you learn.... but its also no other persons responsibility to teach you while things like this happen and people can just watch it and not prevent it physically. Learn first then aquire a dog like this when your ready, but in my opinion you should maybe start with a different breed or not own any dogs at all. The only other choice is for people to sit here with their hands tied in a cyber world and educate you while they can do nothing to help in real life and that is not only stupid but its not fair to the animals or people going through things like this with you just so you can learn about the breed through your mistakes. Which is not the right way to learn in this circumstance about the breed because we see what happens when the mistakes get this bad and the first thing to resolve this little problem is not to go get 2 more dogs. So should anyone educate you while something else similar is potentially going to happen with these 2 dogs since your undereducated? or should we all just wait until it does and educate you after it happens? So we can prevent it in the next 2 dogs you get after these ones. This is not right and I think education after the fact is useless. Education should have been done before the dogs were ever put in the position you put them in... considering the fact it was up to you to keep them out of it with your knowledge and tools which were non exsistent.

[DryCreek]

I don't want this thread to degenerate into another bash fest. If you have advice to give, please deliver it in a non judgmental way.

This is not aimed at anyone in particular, just please choose your words wisely. :)

Midlifeloki, please understand that it's to be expected for you to get some flack over this issue. Just remember, this is the internet and things said will only hurt or bother you as much as you let them. If you refuse to respond or to get riled up by what others are saying, it won't continue. ;)

Now, I empathize over what you've experienced. It's an almost surreal experience for those who've never had to deal with it before. Just always remember, learn from your mistakes, work to change the issues that created the incident, and first and foremost, dedicate yourself to learning everything you can about the breed.

You are the one who must take control and do what needs to be done. Learn how to separate fighting dogs, it's not as hard as some think, all it takes is a calm approach, a break stick, and some physical effort. Get yourself a break stick and practice using it.

There is a ton of info on this site that will be useful to you when it comes to the management of your dogs. Have you ever thought of setting up some tie out spots for the dogs?

I'm sorry that you had to shoot your dogs, that must have been devastating for you. Being repeatedly told that it was your fault was probably not much easier to deal with. Just do your best by the dogs you have now,and learn learn learn.

DryCreek

[woody d]

i have poured enough concrete in my 15 years of construction, and i wanna know how do you plan on paving your whole back yard? i would suggest you look into getting an axle/chain setup. btw, you own apbts, and a fight horrified you? be realistic, that is this breeds history. im not trying to be rough, but a fight is just that, nothing to freak out about. maybe you dont have the mindset for this breed.

[simms]

i agree with this. Why would you get 2 new dogs without educating yourself first? You are irresponsible, I'm sorry but you are.


And please don't tell me you are responsible, because if you were, you would of NEVER done this ^ You were INSIDE doing a photoshoot withh 2 girls and could care less what your dogs were doing outside...nice, real nice.....



And please don't tell me you are responsible, because if you were, you would of NEVER done this ^ You were INSIDE doing a photoshoot withh 2 girls and could care less what your dogs were doing outside...nice, real nice.....[/
The poster can not say that they were responsible. However to assume that they didnt care...c'mon now. This wasn't planned or premedatated, this was a horrible accident.

Should this poster of gotten more dogs? F%ck NO!!! But they did......one can only hope that they set up propper conditions and maintain them for what they are.

They aint F%ckn babies they are dogs and APBT at that!

[simms]

i have poured enough concrete in my 15 years of construction, and i wanna know how do you plan on paving your whole back yard? i would suggest you look into getting an axle/chain setup. btw, you own apbts, and a fight horrified you? be realistic, that is this breeds history. im not trying to be rough, but a fight is just that, nothing to freak out about. maybe you dont have the mindset for this breed.
Go read the the origanal thread. The 2 dogs had dug under the fence and they were working over the niebors dog.

[Michele]

The poster can not say that they were responsible. However to assume that they didnt care...c'mon now. This wasn't planned or premedatated, this was a horrible accident.

Should this poster of gotten more dogs? F%ck NO!!! But they did......one can only hope that they set up propper conditions and maintain them for what they are.

They aint F%ckn babies they are dogs and APBT at that!I know the difference between babies and APBTs. Please do not insult my intelligence. This poster let the dogs out, unsupervised, and then went back inside to do a photoshoot. How is that responsible? As far as what dog started it, come on. If there's a pit bull involved, everyone knows how the story is gonna go down. All the more reason why this poster should of never let them out unsupervised.

This was not an accident. It was a mistake, a very bad mistake that did not have to happen had the owner been responsible. Any pit bull owner knows not to leave dogs outside unsupervised, especially if you don't have the right set up.

My sympathy goes to the dead dogs.

[simms]

I know the difference between babies and APBTs. Please do not insult my intelligence. This poster let the dogs out, unsupervised, and then went back inside to do a photoshoot. How is that responsible? As far as what dog started it, come on. If there's a pit bull involved, everyone knows how the story is gonna go down. All the more reason why this poster should of never let them out unsupervised.

My sympathy goes to the dead dogs.
Insult your intelligence.....lol.

This poster isnt the only one that cuts thier dogs loose in a back yard while they are off with life.

I never said this person was responsible. What I said was .... The poster can not say that they were responsible.However to assume that they didnt care...c'mon now. This wasn't planned or premedatated, this was a horrible accident.

This kinda sh%t happens all the time with pets, just not everyone is going to be so descriptive or drammatic.

your chi is showing

[BoogiemanBlood]

Well I haven't posted much lately, but I just can't sit here and say nothing on this one. First of all, treating them like a baby and basiclly saying it's alright as long as you learned something from it is bullshit in my opinion. I feel this way mostly because it was pointed out in the other thread BY HER that someone had tried to educate her on bulldogs and the fact that they WILL eventually fight and she didn't listen. She wanted to believe her dogs wouldn't do such a thing. Typical stupidity that makes all APBT owners look bad because of the results. Whether you be a pet owner, or working dog owner, or show dog owner, the heat from this ignorance comes down on us all. To sit and coddle them now and pretend it's alright as long as a lesson was learned is just about as irresponsible as this whole story IMO. Rocky do you really think this person is going to do better and be prepared next time this happens? Please don't anybody say there won't be a next time either. I could count at leat 6 HORRIBLE MISTAKES made by this person during the story. 1. not believing they would fight after attempted education. 2. not educating yourself period about the breed or dog ownership in general forehand. 3. letting the dogs out unsupervised. 4. not having a stick and knowing how to use it. 5. not having collars on the dogs. 6. not examining your containment (whatever it may be) which in this case was the fence, on a daily basis. Ignorance and uneducated people are a big part of the downfall of our breed. That and the "macho" thing some people have going. The more we take the dogs out of these people's hands the better IMO. You try try try to educate them, but only some will listen. We all know it. Some people will refuse to believe the truth about DA and HA. The person who this thread is about proved BOTH of these to be true. She stated also she was glad kids weren't out there cuz she was afraid of her dog eating kids or something stupid like that. I don't have the exact quote. Anyway, IMO they have absolutely no business getting more dogs already. Of course we will never know the "next story" now as we've all spoken our minds on the matter. Rocky I feel you trying to help, but sometimes best intentions just aren't enough. The proof is in the pudding and this pudding is sour!

[DryCreek]

My sympathy goes to the dead dogs.
So does mine. This should never have happened and, once it happened, it was resolved in the wrong way. ;)

The owner of the dogs involved has accepted responsibility for what happened and has shown a willingness to educate herself.

Now we should focus on the education aspect, offer up advice and ideas, post links etc.

Marty has some good pictures of a proper chain/axle set up. I'm going to see if I can find the link to the thread that contains them. Rep points to whomever finds them before me LOL.

Midlifeloki, I would suggest you set up some proper tie outs for your dogs. Even with a fenced yard there are no guarantee's as you've learned. Concrete may stop them from digging, but it won't stop them from climbing etc.

[Michele]

Insult your intelligence.....lol.

This poster isnt the only one that cuts thier dogs loose in a back yard while they are off with life.

I never said this person was responsible. What I said was ....

This kinda sh%t happens all the time with pets, just not everyone is going to be so descriptive or drammatic.

your chi is showing
I'm sure alot of peope cut their dogs loose in the yard, most of them, with the right setup.

The ones that just open their door, let their dogs out and hope for the best, IMO, shouldn't have this breed.

And i'm gonna be blunt here. I think this poster let the dogs out because she didnt want them in the way while doing the photoshoot.

Yea, my chi is showing because this mistake didn't have to happen. Owner negligence. that's what this is.

[Michele]

The owner of the dogs involved has accepted responsibility for what happened and has shown a willingness to educate herself.

Yes, the owner accepted responsibility. As far as educating herself, she went out and got 2 more dogs.....

[simms]

I'm sure alot of peope cut their dogs loose in the yard, most of them, with the right setup.

The ones that just open their door, let their dogs out and hope for the best, IMO, shouldn't have this breed.

And i'm gonna be blunt here. I think this poster let the dogs out because she didnt want them in the way while doing the photoshoot.

Yea, my chi is showing because this mistake didn't have to happen. Owner negligence. that's what this is.

Alot of ppl on this board do it.The lack of forethought how many suffer from this.....

Hopeing for the best isn't it. They beleive that it cant happen to them or thier dogs wont do that. I agree owner neglegence.

The issue isnt the dead dogs anymore, it's the new ones.....

[Michele]

Alot of ppl on this board do it.The lack of forethought how many suffer from this.....

Hopeing for the best isn't it. They beleive that it cant happen to them or thier dogs wont do that. I agree owner neglegence.

The issue isnt the dead dogs anymore, it's the new ones.....Yes, the issue is the new dogs. Say a prayer for them. If this person loved this breed so much, she would of educated herself before getting 2 new dogs. It's painfully obvious that she was not educated with the first 2 she had.

[misterdogman]

Alot of ppl on this board do it.The lack of forethought how many suffer from this.....

Hopeing for the best isn't it. They beleive that it cant happen to them or thier dogs wont do that. I agree owner neglegence.

The issue isnt the dead dogs anymore, it's the new ones.....Thanks I thought that little tidbit would slip thru so I pointed it out. 2 new dogs is NOT the right thing to do. I let my bambam run loose all the time but hes 8 and when he has seen a stray off lead I know he wants to run over and mess with it but he dont, he looks at me and he knows i dont want him too, but like I said hes 8 and in the past when he was 2 I could have never kept him from bolting and fighting, so he only goes off lead in the yard or huge back field. But in the end we have to ask ourselves is it really the people or the dogs? These dogs arent forced to dig under fences or bite thru chains they want to, and if we acknowledged it we would be prepared and these things would never or rarely happen. Its like if a gun goes off under the bed. If its your gun you should have put it somewhere safer even though you didnt shoot it if it hits someone in the end after all is said and done "Its is still your gun" and your responsible for keeping it safe from people and people and animals safe from it. Treat your dogs the same way.

[simms]

Yes, the issue is the new dogs. Say a prayer for them. If this person loved this breed so much, she would of educated herself before getting 2 new dogs. It's painfully obvious that she was not educated with the first 2 she had.


I'm not going to say a prayer for those new dogs..LOL I hope that the poster can cull these new ones if they need too.

Chain and axle set up is what they need, can some one post an example ?

Stillwater makes a good collar, easy to order.

Easy parting stick,
Go to your local hardware store.
pick up a wooden handle for a hammer. Where the hammer and handle meet is your objective. Widdle down to a dull wedge tip. you then have a parting stick.

[simms]

Thanks I thought that little tidbit would slip thru so I pointed it out. 2 new dogs is NOT the right thing to do. I let my bambam run loose all the time but hes 8 and when he has seen a stray off lead I know he wants to run over and mess with it but he dont, he looks at me and he knows i dont want him too, but like I said hes 8 and in the past when he was 2 I could have never kept him from bolting and fighting, so he only goes off lead in the yard or huge back field. But in the end we have to ask ourselves is it really the people or the dogs? These dogs arent forced to dig under fences or bite thru chains they want to, and if we acknowledged it we would be prepared and these things would never or rarely happen. Its like if a gun goes off under the bed. If its your gun you should have put it somewhere safer even though you didnt shoot it if it hits someone in the end after all is said and done "Its is still your gun" and your responsible for keeping it safe from people and people and animals safe from it. Treat your dogs the same way.
Excellent analogy!

[Michele]

I know that some of you on here know a bit more that I do with regard to this breed, but why would these dogs need to get culled unless they are HA?
If the same thing happens with these 2 new dogs, then the poster needs to get culled.

[simms]

I know that some of you on here know a bit more that I do with regard to this breed, but why would these dogs need to get culled unless they are HA?




.................................................. .................................................. ...

Some dont make good pets or owners and why try to pass the buck off to someone else.....after all, that's how they got those dogs to begin with.

[chinasmom]

So does mine. This should never have happened and, once it happened, it was resolved in the wrong way. ;)

The owner of the dogs involved has accepted responsibility for what happened and has shown a willingness to educate herself.

Now we should focus on the education aspect, offer up advice and ideas, post links etc.

Marty has some good pictures of a proper chain/axle set up. I'm going to see if I can find the link to the thread that contains them. Rep points to whomever finds them before me LOL.

Midlifeloki, I would suggest you set up some proper tie outs for your dogs. Even with a fenced yard there are no guarantee's as you've learned. Concrete may stop them from digging, but it won't stop them from climbing etc.
All I can say is yes it was horrible, yes they should have been supervised and yes she should have waited till the conditions and education was right . Having said that, I agree with DryCreek that it has happened and nothing can be done about the past. I only hope that she will take advantage of all the advice and info that she can find here and do what's right by the two new dogs she now has. And by the way, they are good looking dogs. Please, please take all the possitive and negative input and use it well.

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http://www.game-dog.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7093&stc=1&thumb=1 (http://www.game-dog.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7093) http://www.game-dog.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7094&stc=1&thumb=1 (http://www.game-dog.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7094) http://www.game-dog.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7095&stc=1&thumb=1 (http://www.game-dog.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7095) <LEGEND>Attached Thumbnails</LEGEND> http://www.game-dog.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7096&stc=1&thumb=1 (http://www.game-dog.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7096)
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http://www.game-dog.com/forums/images/misc/paperclip.gif axle picture help (http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21186&highlight=picture+chain+axle)
48lawsofpower (04-27-2007 02:03 PM)


OK Dry Creek, where's my points? ;)

[DryCreek]

Yes, the owner accepted responsibility. As far as educating herself, she went out and got 2 more dogs.....Which is why it's so important that we educate her. ;)

We cannot change the fact that she has these 2 new dogs, what we CAN do is do our darnedest to make sure there is NO repeat of the previous incident.

I hear where your coming from my friend, it's frustrating to say the least. Believe you me, I'm not pleased with the issue myself. But we're shutting the proverbial barn doors after the cows are gone here. All these points have been made, it's time to move on.

Now, here is the link to the chain set up of Marty's.

http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14426&highlight=chain%2Faxle

Edit to add....points given chinasmom, ya beat me by a minute LOL

[Michele]

This is from my other forum. the first story is the one you already know about. Keep reading the other stories:

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=2779

and other one on the proper use of a break stick:

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=1513

[Michele]

DryCreek: your point is taken:) I hope this poster comes back and reads the information on this forum.

[DryCreek]

Good info on those links! :D

[Suki]

DryCreek: your point is taken:) I hope this poster comes back and reads the information on this forum.

i am CERTAIN that is going to happen! ;)

Tx for keeping this thread so civil~ water under the bridge...

[misterdogman]

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=24052&c=3&userid=2714
drive this in the hard dirt ground about 6 inches from the big end


http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=24051&c=3&userid=2714
connect this to it with swivels about 10' for each dog

put dog with 2 inch collar on end of chain with a bull snap or other connecter with more swivels.

No more problems.

[pittychick]

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=24052&c=3&userid=2714
drive this in the hard dirt ground about 6 inches from the big end


http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=24051&c=3&userid=2714
connect this to it with swivels about 10' for each dog

put dog with 2 inch collar on end of chain with a bull snap or other connecter with more swivels.

No more problems.

Also make sure to get a QUALITY 2 inch collar...not one from a petshop! I had a little 30lb female literaly rip through a 2 inch leather collar from petco. I don't have collars from Shane yet (about to order a couple from him hopefully today), but everybody says wonderful things about his equipment (stillwaterkennels.com)

[shadyridgekennel]

hmmm wonder what will happen if this new pregnant bitch starts having problems when whelping her pups :rolleyes: she might shoot them.

[simms]

hmmm wonder what will happen if this new pregnant bitch starts having problems when whelping her pups :rolleyes: she might shoot them.

An I suppose that you would have a problem with that.....culling that is. I could hope for nothing more if they were all culled. you see I dont have much faith in the pet population.

For Obvious examples....

If you just wanna be shitie, that's ok. ive been there and done that myself.
However this could be your dogs every time you sell or place with in the public.

Close the circles folks this breed is not for everyone!

[misterdogman]

Also make sure to get a QUALITY 2 inch collar...not one from a petshop! I had a little 30lb female literaly rip through a 2 inch leather collar from petco. I don't have collars from Shane yet (about to order a couple from him hopefully today), but everybody says wonderful things about his equipment (stillwaterkennels.com)Actually I got my 2 incher I use now from 14rock, but your right, when I say 2 inch collar I assume quality but make sure, I have seen some cheap ones.

[shadyridgekennel]

An I suppose that you would have a problem with that.....culling that is. I could hope for nothing more if they were all culled. you see I dont have much faith in the pet population.

For Obvious examples....

If you just wanna be shitie, that's ok. ive been there and done that myself.
However this could be your dogs every time you sell or place with in the public.

Close the circles folks this breed is not for everyone!hell no. i have no problem with culling.

[Grizzly]

I have had enough yard accidents with either strays or loose dogs to be calm and prepared with either sticks and friends to help or maybe no tools and no friends around... and just came in to it with a calm demeanor to seperate the dogs without freaking out but some people who underestimate the breed dont see something like this coming due yes to some ignorance of the breed but also the fight. Some people see the violence and think one of the dogs is going to die immediately or something... when... if you waited... sought a game plan... and had some tools... you would have realized this could have been seperated most likely by yourself with 1 stick and youd have had 1 neighbors dog running home with some bites and maybe your dogs with a couple scratches. But with the commotion and fear and unknowing the worst thing possible happened here.
I think Rocky is right in educating but maybe we should step back and look at the bigger picture. I dont think educating is the first process with you here. You mentioned you already got 2 new dogs
quote{"I still love this breed and getting my 2 new dogs has helped me alot and I want to continue to learn about them and help educate about them."}quote.
Why? Please give me 1 good reason as to why in the world you just got 2 more dogs? Maybe instead of learning about the breed in mid-step you should wait and learn first,.. then take the first step, this breed is not for everyone and if you choose to own it you need to have a breaking stick and collars and leashes that can assist you and most importantly you need to know your breed capabilities and specifics. It takes years to be a thourough and proficient APBT owner/Handler... Not doing so before owning this breed is not only irresponsible but it puts the burden of educating you while horrendous things like this happen to the dogs you own at any given moment on everyone else. Thats not fair to the animals who die or get harmed or ruined in the process just while you learn.... but its also no other persons responsibility to teach you while things like this happen and people can just watch it and not prevent it physically. Learn first then aquire a dog like this when your ready, but in my opinion you should maybe start with a different breed or not own any dogs at all. The only other choice is for people to sit here with their hands tied in a cyber world and educate you while they can do nothing to help in real life and that is not only stupid but its not fair to the animals or people going through things like this with you just so you can learn about the breed through your mistakes. Which is not the right way to learn in this circumstance about the breed because we see what happens when the mistakes get this bad and the first thing to resolve this little problem is not to go get 2 more dogs. So should anyone educate you while something else similar is potentially going to happen with these 2 dogs since your undereducated? or should we all just wait until it does and educate you after it happens? So we can prevent it in the next 2 dogs you get after these ones. This is not right and I think education after the fact is useless. Education should have been done before the dogs were ever put in the position you put them in... considering the fact it was up to you to keep them out of it with your knowledge and tools which were non exsistent.
A very good post !

[jr Pit Guy]

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=24052&c=3&userid=2714
drive this in the hard dirt ground about 6 inches from the big end


http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=24051&c=3&userid=2714
connect this to it with swivels about 10' for each dog

put dog with 2 inch collar on end of chain with a bull snap or other connecter with more swivels.

No more problems.
I'm gonna chime in here. Good advice, I was just getting ready to post something similar, LOL. Also, make sure the collar that you use DOES NOT have plastic buckles.

Rule #1 - If you can buy the chain, collar, or tie-out from the pet section at Walmart, plan on another accident.

I also wonder, how far into the ground did you plant your privacy fence? This could help as much as concrete. Just bury the fence about 2 ft, and lay concrete in the dug area. It is also very important to make sure your chain and axle set ups are not long enough that your dogs can jump the fence and hang themselves. Just as important is to have the set ups far enough apart that the dogs cannot reach each other. Put into consideration that the dogs can stretch their arms out, so make about 4ft foot distance apart when the setups are fully extended.

You need to do this IMMEDIATELY, because owning three APBTs is just an accident waiting to happen, especially if they are unaltered and that female goes into heat. I noticed that you just got two adults, how is your other one liking it? Is it just a pup or full grown? Don't fool yourself, there will be another fight even if you keep the dogs contained so get a breakstick and plan on keeping the two same sex dogs separated. Don't ask why, just heed my warning.

[simms]

31. Leave the drama from other forums at the other forums where it belongs. Posting links to educational material is acceptable.

[Rocky H. Balboa]

Mister, I may be misreading your first post but it seems to contradict itself. Here take a look:

I think Rocky is right in educating but maybe we should step back and look at the bigger picture. I dont think educating is the first process with you here. You mentioned you already got 2 new dogs......

......This is not right and I think education after the fact is useless. Education should have been done before the dogs were ever put in the position you put them in... considering the fact it was up to you to keep them out of it with your knowledge and tools which were non exsistent.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

But you also said:

I have had enough yard accidents with either strays or loose dogs.....
Now, you likely consider yourself better educated and experienced in these dogs than Midlifeloki. Yet, you admit to having had multiple "accidents".

I am not pointing this out to confront you but rather in hopes of making you and others realize that to err is human. The way i see it, she posted her incident in however many forums as a therapy tool. From what was provided in the original thread, she took full responsibility from first sentence to her last one. That to me is necessary and conductive to learning.

That fact is that no cyber or book learning will fully prepare anyone as much and as quick as hands-on experience. It was horrible and pointless how things ended for the two previous dogs. She made a decision on her property. I will not circumvent her right by critiquing decisions on property.

I know the difference between babies and APBTs. Please do not insult my intelligence. This poster let the dogs out, unsupervised, and then went back inside to do a photoshoot. How is that responsible?
I find a simple answer to this. She thought the yard was secured. Like when yard accidents occur. They occur because the owner thought the chain setups (or collars) were safe. Sh!t happens.

First of all, treating them like a baby and basiclly saying it's alright as long as you learned something from it is bullshit in my opinion. I feel this way mostly because it was pointed out in the other thread BY HER that someone had tried to educate her on bulldogs and the fact that they WILL eventually fight and she didn't listen. She wanted to believe her dogs wouldn't do such a thing.
Boogieman, remember that in the most basic sense, dogs are property. Any responsible property owner will provide a reasonable degree of care. If mistakes will ultimately create an above average property owner, then, it is alright to make mistakes.

She might not have believed in that these dogs enjoy the fight. I bet you she does now. No amount of Peta or Humaniac advertisement will persuade her into re-thinking "it is how you raise them". This is valuable in my eyes.

How about these 2 new dogs? Well, more than likely, these dogs were destined to the pound aka death row. Therefore, if she can provide them with some love, it is alright. Better with her than directly into the gas chamber. I hope that this nasty experience will motivate her into properly securing dogs and yard. In addition, i hope she can view chain setups as an acceptable means to confinement.

Rocky do you really think this person is going to do better and be prepared next time this happens? Please don't anybody say there won't be a next time either. I could count at leat 6 HORRIBLE MISTAKES made by this person during the story. 1. not believing they would fight after attempted education. 2. not educating yourself period about the breed or dog ownership in general forehand. 3. letting the dogs out unsupervised. 4. not having a stick and knowing how to use it. 5. not having collars on the dogs. 6. not examining your containment (whatever it may be) which in this case was the fence, on a daily basis.
Yes sir, i believe if she is of average intelligence, these mistakes will unlikely be repeated. Of course, things and life with dogs are complex so mistakes will occur. Best anyone can do is do their best. Some people may think that just letting multiple dogs loose in the yard is idiotic in itself. You and others may feel it is fine since "they get along" but others know that life-long buddies can turn foes in a nano second.

Midlifeloki, have you corrected some of the things Boogieman has pointed out? Have you bonded with the new dogs? It is very important you bond with them. You may still be shaken and traumatized by your previous experience. If you are going to continue owning these dogs, you need to be able to break up a fight if it occurs. You need to create a protocol in case of such emergencies. Do not worry, these dogs have loose skin that minimizes short-term injury to muscle tissue and bones.

I bet you all that a majority of the old-time dogmen made terminal mistakes in their beginnings. Why be more critical of a newbie who neither has a dogman's passion nor level of breed understanding?

Just remember that hindsight view has 20/20 vision and that it is easy to connect the dots after the fact.

[Chef-Kergin]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Rocky's Human again.

[BoogiemanBlood]

Just remember that hindsight view has 20/20 vision and that it is easy to connect the dots after the fact.Rocky, I hear ya about this and that is what my problem really was with this paticular person. THEY HAD SOMEBODY TRYING TO HELP EDUCATE AND DIDN'T LISTEN. They have been a member here for over a year with 97 posts. Surely they have read about DA! To even say she hoped her dog wouldn't be responsible for killing a child shows the complete lack of any education on their part. I'm not trying to flame or bash and I'm sorry to anyone who sees it that way. Not that I thought you did, just saying. At this point all I can say is I hope you are right, but am horribly afraid you are wrong on this one. All I can say is for anybody out there who refuses to believe their dogs WILL FIGHT, take this as a lesson learned. Some can move on with their lives easily and just replace dogs. That is part of the problem. Oh well they're dead get some more. It is us people who have a true passion for them who thrive on education of the breed to make OURSELVES the best owners we can be FOR THE DOGS that will make our breed survive. Also, I'm not real sure I agree with the part about these dogs destined for the gas chamer either. The other dogs got bullets in the head and one had to live through 2 bullets and wait to be euthed. :mad: At that point why couldn't you just finish the job and be done with it instead of making the dog suffer until the vet euthed it? <<<<< leads to the point you made about the person having average intelligence. THAT IS NOT A FLAME EITHER! I just mean WTF are you thinking making the dog suffer instead of just putting another one in it's head at that point? Rocky I respect you and your efforts. I just hope the person doesn't stop their education with this. This is just the tip of the iceberg as far as ecucation goes and it's CLEAR they have much much much much more to learn. Reps to you though!

edit: well after going and reading through a BUNCH of the posts of the person in question i am convinced i am right. the best help would be to get rid of the dogs! there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to why they get dogs. i'm gonna get this....gotta have this show dog.....would like to have one of these....getting another one of those. PEOPLE.........understand this before getting a dog!!!!!!!!! IT'S A LIFETIME COMMITMENT! they are NOT disposable property to throw away at your convience just so you can get the new one you just "fell in love" with. they bred mutts for no reason other than to make more and keep a pup. they also say they know the dogs can't be left alone in previous posts, yet still it happened anyway. they say they are responsible....yeah right. this whole thing is a black eye to the breed and if continued on the same path will just be another one! :mad:

[CrazyK9]

Midlifeloki, can you please post. We all want to hear what progress you've made, if any.

Have you decided on abortion or adopting out the pups? Are you supervising your dogs if they are out in the yard, un-tethered? Have you bought chain set-ups yet? How about breaking sticks? Will you be altering these new dogs?

[kinggatorpits]

I'm not gonna lie...I would've probably done the same thing she did....just based on the fact I had an American Bulldog that one day attacked my female walker coonhound and killed her...and yes he was chained down still had the axle and cement I set it with on the chain behind him....And thus far this is the meanest dog i've ever encountered...I walked up on them he still had her around the neck...and as i apporached he turned on my with that look in his eye like your next...i ran and jumped in the back of my truck and when he lunged at me...I put a .40 cal S&W right between his running lights.

[confederatemule]

To All,
Yes things didn't work out too well. I think the lady did the responsible thing at the time and under the circumstances. She could not change what had went wrong to allow this fight to get started. She could not get help in time to make a difference. She did not have the necessary tools in her back pocket to stop the fight. But, she did have a tool, close by, that would do the job. She used it, and I commend her for having the courage and being educated enough and good enough of a marksman to do what needed to be done at the time.

I was not present at the fight, so I really can not say if it could of been handled any other way.

Was any one else, on this forum, there?

I would like to know how is a person going to become educated, about anything, without experience. The only good way to learn is from failure. You can not get experience by reading from a book of from a monitor.

I am sure this lady has learned, a lot, from this experience. Now it is time to practice what she has learned.

I have always been told "When you fall off of a horse, get right back on."

Well, she has gotten back on and now it seems like most, on this forum, want to knock her back down.

Now is the time to be offering educational post, because now she can actualy understand the what, where, whay, and how. But without dogs {more than one} it would be hard to apply what she has learned.

Good luck to you, Midlifeloki, with your new dogs. And as far as the pups are concerned, don't abort them. Let her have them. Then do what has to be done. Surley, there will be homes for them.

I wonder why people seem to want to jump on another person when they are down? I thought that was the way of animals? Are we animals?

Course the internet makes it very easy to show our true selves. {Can't no one see us, nor do they know us}

[Midlifeloki]

I have been debating on whether I wanted to post to this thread but I guess I might as well.

The dogs have been taken care of. I have one chain set up right now for Blue during the day and at night he sleeps in a crate in the garage. Calie and Shadwrack are rotating the crate. I have kept everyone seperated. I do not let ANYONE loose in my yard at all! If they go out to potty or poo they have leashes on. I have numerous breaksitcks around the house and yard. I plan to start walking and jogging with blue so I will have a stick with me when I do that.
I have bonded with the dogs they are great animals! Shadwrack is my ole man is well he gets the most attention since mommy brought new dogs home but Calie and Blue have been doing great have shown absolutely NO human aggression they actually attacked my hubbies friend with kisses. As far as d to d aggression I am not taking any chances and I am doing everything necessary to prevent any more accidents. Calie and blue have been seperated even though they were alone together at old owners I am not taking chances blue and calie are allowed to play in the garage under strict supervision for at the most 15-20 min but calie is starting to get really big and more lazy so I have limited her time with blue because I dont want her to get hurt or stressed out.
I have been looking into weight pull harness for Blue and plan to start training with him on that just have to decided who I am going to have make the harness.
and shad well he is my lazy butt and he just lays around farting all day

Calie the pregnant female I do not plan on aborting I have thought about it and did consider it but I am just against abortion and can't do to.I have switched her food to a puppy food and started her on some vitamins.I am getting my house ready fopr puppies we are clsing off my photo studio has her OWN room to whelp and raise pups in. I am getting the necessary extras just incase we need to bottle feed anyone.

I am already making arrangements for homes and I have got Spay/neuter contracts ready. Spay and Neuters and all necessary shots will be provided by me so new owners will not have to pay any spay or neuters. I have estimated she is due around christmas time and will provide photos for everyone to see.
But just so you can have some updated photos here is calie

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/Midlifeloki/dogs/SabrinaNFamily120.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/Midlifeloki/dogs/Calie011.jpg





and I do understand that I got my dogs too soon and was not expecting to get any new dogs I am an ANIMAL NUT LOVe them to death I used to bring everything home until I started to get in trouble lol! But I am glad I got these dogs because the town I got them from 2 1/2hrs away is in the proces of enforcing BSL and who knows what would have happened to them and yes I did get them for free and even I thought it was scam I drove 2 1/2 hours into the boonies. I dont know anything about bloodlines and really have a will to learn about my dogs bloodlines!



These 2 dogs have helped me in my healing process because I was hurt and still am hurt. It replays in my head everyday and I will never forget what happened.

My goal now is to keep my dogs safe and the breed safe.

[coolhandjean]

Good luck, Midlifeloki. I wish you the best of luck and wish the best for you and your dogs!

[BoogiemanBlood]

that is all very encouraging news! follow through is the key to success. the best of intentions fall to the wayside when we let our gaurds down so don't let that happen. some time together would prbly be ok......IF.........it is strictly supervised as you say you are doing. educate yourself on how to recognize aggresive behaviors and stances and so forth. that will be the key to your success or failure. if it seems i've been hard on the situation during this thread it is because BSL is virtually knocking on the door of every town, city, state in America. had there been different people involved in the accident than the people you described, (who didn't seem to freak out over the deal)....it could be a whole different story as far as bad plublicity for the breed! good luck in the future. i hope you are as commited as you say you are in this post and all goes well from here on out. be very paticular who you place those pups with! ;)

[SMOKIN HEMI]

We all have made mistakes before. It is imperitive that we learn from them I pray that you have. For you and your pets. This is the way that this forum is suppose to work, to supply the adequate information for people so that they can make the best descion. I am happy for you and the the longer you stick around the more you can learn. I have had my fair share of bulldogs and i had no idea about the create rotation strategy. There are alot of good poeple on this site and for them to get that upset about this whole ordeal just shows the passion that we have about this breed. I hope that you continue to stick around. Look luck with your new family...

Brianhttp://www.game-dog.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

[BoogiemanBlood]

Midlifeloki, I see you placed pics of your chain set up in the gallery. I commend you once again for stepping up and trying.......BUT.....that screw together link HAS TO GO! it is NOT SAFE and should be replaced immediately. some GOOD links were provided earlier in this thread for a safe set up. that one is an accident waiting to happen.

your set up

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/6/4/3/6/BubuNCallie007.jpg

a safe set up

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c218/Marty2k6/collerthroughchinsetup.jpg

notice: swivel, lap links, and O-rings. these are a must for safe containment. get that screw together thing off there ASAP! PLEASE!

everything you need is sold right here

http://www.stillwaterkennelsupply.com/index.htm

[bahamutt99]

Good luck with your situation. I hope you're able to turn it all around.

[Midlifeloki]

I actually bought a swivel as well but I after I bought everythign I did not buy an attachnment for the collar! SO I am going to lowes tomorrow to get the attachments! they have everything that is in the photo!

[Marty]

Midlifeloki, Please don't let the dumb a$$es run you off, we are here to educate not flame :(

For the most part the thread is going good, just a few flaming and I'll end up taking care of that ;)

[DryCreek]

I have been debating on whether I wanted to post to this thread but I guess I might as well.

I'm glad you did. :)

My goal now is to keep my dogs safe and the breed safe.
Great to hear it!

It was a bit of a bumpy ride for a bit but you have pleased me to no end by coming back and showing us that you are doing what needs to be done. The goal of the site, and for most of the members as well, is to educate/help those in need. It may not always go that way :rolleyes: but we try LOL.

Good job Midlifeloki, and just so your prepared, puppy pics ARE required! :D

And please don't let the rough ride stop you from asking about anything else you may need advice about. We're here to help!

DryCreek

[Midlifeloki]

thank you normally I dont let people get to me normally but this was a different situation I do have questions Iw ill be asking in another thread concerning bloodlines and weightpulling

[frenchie1936]

sell your guns..... sounds like you made a rash decision that you now regret. i personally feel that as indicative as this whole story has been about your poor judgement in a tight spot, you probably shouldn't own a gun. JMO. dogs fighting and all you can do is think to get your gun and cap your own dogs? this whole story blew me away, no pun intended. i can't possibly condone such reckless and negligent behavior by just saying learn from it. seems to me like this would be a real epiphany. a real eye opener. maybe at some later date you would be better informed and equipped to own an APBT, but i don't think now is appropriate.

[Midlifeloki]

I dont plan on getting rid of the gun. I have it for a reason I live in a not so safe neighborhood and I am home by myself alot well the majority of the time.

[Rocky H. Balboa]

MIdlifeloki, what do you mean you were debating on posting on this thread? You are the star of the show! lol

Here are some advise:

When walking a dog, always take at least two breaking sticks and an extra leash. Breaking a dog fight is better done when both dogs are broken off at the same time. In addition, a loose/stray more than likely will not have a leash. That is where the extra leash comes in handy.

When a dog is on a chain setup, use two collars to prevent dog from slipping off collar. The collars should not be one over the other. Chain should be attached to the collar closer to the shoulders (other is closer to the head).

Practice by going through the motions of placing dog between your legs, holding hind legs with your legs (so it will not move forward in a fight), grabbing loose skin from neck/face area (so it will not shake), and inserting parting stick on the pre-molars (this is where the teeth do not meet on the side of the mouth).

In addition, if economics permit, i suggest purchasing a slat mill. There are great energy burners! I certainly believe that a tire dog is a easy dog to manage. lol

In regards to using your gun, i think you did the right thing for you in that situation. No one can complaint about anything when you chose to safeguard the "victim" dog over your own.

[confederatemule]

What ever you do, KEEP the gun!! No matter where you may live.

As I said before, I think, you did what you should of done, under the circumstances.

The only thing you did wrong, as I see it, is post it on any forum.

[LuvinBullies]

Midlifeloki-

We are all learning everyday- I commend your willingness to keep this open line of communication going so everything has not been in vain, particularly the death of your dogs.
I had a situation about a year and a half ago where I found myself in the middle of a fight between 2 APBTs, a German shepherd and a Great Dane. I was lucky I didn't get my country ass killed.
I was one of those pet owners who thought they knew everything based on their experience with their own dogs-and I am very thankful to those here who gave me all the redirection and advice when I posted what happened. It's easy to post what happened and look for advice, but sometimes it's hard to truly absorb and apply that good advice especially when it feels like everyone is coming down hard on you. I hope you will make the necessary effort for the dogs' sake, and something tells me you will. ;)

[Midlifeloki]

MIdlifeloki, what do you mean you were debating on posting on this thread? You are the star of the show! lol

Here are some advise:

When walking a dog, always take at least two breaking sticks and an extra leash. Breaking a dog fight is better done when both dogs are broken off at the same time. In addition, a loose/stray more than likely will not have a leash. That is where the extra leash comes in handy.

When a dog is on a chain setup, use two collars to prevent dog from slipping off collar. The collars should not be one over the other. Chain should be attached to the collar closer to the shoulders (other is closer to the head).

Practice by going through the motions of placing dog between your legs, holding hind legs with your legs (so it will not move forward in a fight), grabbing loose skin from neck/face area (so it will not shake), and inserting parting stick on the pre-molars (this is where the teeth do not meet on the side of the mouth).

In addition, if economics permit, i suggest purchasing a slat mill. There are great energy burners! I certainly believe that a tire dog is a easy dog to manage. lol

In regards to using your gun, i think you did the right thing for you in that situation. No one can complaint about anything when you chose to safeguard the "victim" dog over your own.


what is a slat mill? do you have photos? I took blue to a tennis court today to get some exercise left leash on him. I have pics that I will post

[BoogiemanBlood]

what is a slat mill? do you have photos? I took blue to a tennis court today to get some exercise left leash on him. I have pics that I will posthere ya go. rocky is right! they will definitely be ready to lay down for a few hours after some hard work. this is bronson after about 25 minutes of hard running. you will still have to stay right there with them. if you get one do a search on how to use it or start a thread and ask.

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/5/9/6/2/DSC04607.JPG

[Midlifeloki]

oh I have seen those not with the wood though I have seem some with rubber. kinda similar to a treadmill right?

[BoogiemanBlood]

oh I have seen those not with the wood though I have seem some with rubber. kinda similar to a treadmill right?yes but the ones you are referring to are called carpet mills. much different than this. this is very free turning. kind of like natural running. the carpet mill is much harder to turn and can only be used for short runs or it will do damage to internal organs such as kidneys. an electric mill is ok also. maybe your hubby could build a frame around it and drop a chain down like the pic if that is an option. slat mills are pretty expensive and you can find an electric mill cheap at rummage sales or newspapers. i may have my old pic of my electric mill. if i find it i'll post it for you.

edit: ok here is a pic of my electric mill. it was just a bunch of scrap lumber i had around leftover from building a new deck.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s229/BoogiemanBlood/mill2.jpg

here is a carpet mill. it's a vid not a pic but you can see the difference

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s229/BoogiemanBlood/th_Ringoffirevideo.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s229/BoogiemanBlood/?action=view&current=Ringoffirevideo.flv)

[Midlifeloki]

okay that is good to know! I would like to do that cause it would be good exercise for the dogs!

My best friend is buying blue a pull harness as my christmas present so we are looking into those right now

[BoogiemanBlood]

okay that is good to know! I would like to do that cause it would be good exercise for the dogs!

My best friend is buying blue a pull harness as my christmas present so we are looking into those right nowmy last post is edited witht the pics for you. don't let anybody tell you any bull like it's mean to the dogs either. all i have to do is ask my dogs if they want to run and they go bananas knowing they get to run the mills. the carpet mill was the very first day i bought it. you can see the box it came in laying behind it outside. ;) clean out some room in your pm box pls. it says it's full.

[Midlifeloki]

well I know someone with a manual one would that work?

[BoogiemanBlood]

well I know someone with a manual one would that work?they would fall into the category of the carpet mill most of the time. being as they are designed for people to turn them and you're making a dog turn it is usually alot harder for the dog. you could use it for some exercise, but limit the time on it to around 15 minutes total. this is more of a muscle building exercise than aerobic exercise so to say.

[Midlifeloki]

well I can check craigslist there are always cheap things on there and I am sure I can find and electric one.

[SLICK WILLIE]

That was good Rock! Enjoied the read and just wanted to add like some had said in the replies! Yard scuffles are going to happen if the dogs have any damn drive to them at all. Very seldom do I see them but shit happens, so go investigate the prob so it don't happen again.

As for breaking the dogs everyone needs sticks around!!! To not have sticks is stupid, but if not there will come a break in which the dogs will go for new holds and you can snatch them away from each other just got to be fast! Never hit the dogs because you make them go even harder and if you are yelling and screaming them SOB'S will keep driving.

Be calm when walking up on them and talk to them as you always do. I'll give you this info from my back yard. I was standing in the house one day and looking out the window and seen a brown streak fly across the dog lot! I said who's dog is that and then seen it was mine! Oh! S&*T! I ran out the door and them buggers were gettin it on!

all I could do was watch for a moment and think two of them one of me and one stick to break! One on chain one off chain one of me! Grab lose dog wait for break in holds and shove stick in chained dogs mouth asap and snatch them apart. It ain't easy but it can be done by one person if one dog is chained!!! I tell you to make damn sure chain setups are secure! After I went back to find out how the dog got off the chain. I did not loop the chain correct at the base of axel! Me Stupid, Slick

[Michele]

http://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=1513

[yellaman420]

yeah, yard scuffles are a fact of living with multiple dogs of any breed. If you have more than 2 of anything there is a 50% chance they wont like each other at some point in time. Just make sure they are always secured and check that hardware daily!! Ive personally lost 3 in one such accident and it is an emotionally painful and financially draining way to learn a lesson.

[simms]

Yard accidents happen, Ive had my share. However when 2 loose apbt's get into the niebors yard. It is no longer an isolated inccedent, they become a public nuesence...

i'm glad you all are sharing your personal experiences ...we are all human and make mistakes.

preventive maintanace is the key.