Dave Wilson's ELITE EDGE/ RAZORS EDGE

[renegadepit]

For Informational purposes only. Attached is the breeding standard/practices of Dave Wilson's Elite Edge members and Razors Edge.



The Elite Edge is not just the name of the group but a statement to the American Bully / APBT community that a unified front is here to promote the breed and establish a higher standard of doing business. The Elite Edge is here to change the negativity that has plagued this noble breed and ensure its acceptance into mainstream society. To achieve this, a set of by-laws has been established for those kennels who wish to be a part of The Elite Edge. These by-laws are to ensure those who do business with our members can expect a consistent level of quality and service.

By joining The Elite Edge you agree to the following:
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Member kennels are limited to no more than 20 dogs per yard. "Yard" is defined as one location. If you have partners, each separate location is considered a different yard.
Upon request, member kennels can be inspected to see if an acceptable level of care and living conditions exist for dogs under the member kennel care.
Promote the American Bully, APBT, AST, and The Elite Edge in a positive manner.
Establish and maintain a high level of business ethics.
Strive to improve the breed.
Members will not breed their bitches until after their 2nd heat cycle.
No member shall breed to the point he or she can be considered a puppy mill.
Must not promote or participate in dog fighting in anyway.
Members will not do business with anyone who owes money to another Elite Edge member.
Any member who is found willfully deceiving or cheating a fellow member will be immediately dismissed from the group and all monies given to the Elite Edge will be forfeited.
Members agree to pay a yearly membership fee establish by Elite Edge Management.
Members agree to settle disputes with customers or members through the Elite Edge Mediators.
Members agree to provide "Dispute Mediators" all information regarding any dispute initiated by them or against them by another party. Failure to cooperate can result in expulsion from the Elite Edge.
Registration papers for puppies sold by our members will be sent out within a reasonable time period.
Members will not "bate" fellow members into arguments that are geared to promote conflict and unrest within the group.
Any Elite Edge Member fighting with another member will be BANNED from the Elite Edge and the Message Board.
All members will show and treat their fellow members with a degree of respect.
All members must have a website up and running at all times and should be updated regularly. At least every six months. (Example: Keep your Breeding and Puppy page up to date.)
Link pages are not permitted. This will eliminate other kennels from asking to exchange links. We spend a lot of money on advertisements to promote other kennels free of charge.
The Elite Edge Logo must be posted on your home page and linked to http://www.theeliteedge.com (http://www.theeliteedge.com/)
The ABKC Logo must be posted on your home page and linked to http://www.abkcdogs.org/ (http://www.abkcdogs.org/)
The Atomic Dogg Logo must be posted on your home page and linked to http://www.atomicdoggmagazine.com (http://www.atomicdoggmagazine.com/)
All members must register all dogs with the ABKC. For 2007, all EE dogs must be registered with the ABKC by 3/1/07.
All new litters must be registered under the ABKC registry.
Kennels outside of the Elite Edge seeking to use an Elite Edge Stud will be required to have the Bitch and litter registered under the ABKC registry.
Breedings between Elite Edge members will Add EE in front of the Dam’s Kennel name on the new litter registrations. (Example: If Blue Blood uses a stud from BowWow the name of the pups will be as follows, EE BlueBlood Name of pup)
Breedings done with both stud and dam from your own yard, will not be required to have the EE added to the puppies names.
Elite Edge breedings should be offered to the Members prior to the general public. This should be advertised 2 weeks on the private board prior to being posted on the general board. This will ensure that the Elite Edge Family retains the best of the best.
Elite Edge members agree to sell puppies/dogs to fellow Elite Edge members for half the price of what they plan to charge the public. This will again ensure that the Elite Edge Family retains the best of the best.
If an Elite Edge Members decides to post puppy prices on their website, it should be no less than $2500. What you sell your puppies for behind closed doors is between the Breeder/Seller and the buyer.
No Elite Edge member can have their own message board, group, or chat room.
All Elite Edge members must use contracts for sales.
Every Elite Edge member must check-in to the members board at least once a week and post something.
Every Elite Edge member is required to attend at least one of two main meetings per year.
Every Elite Edge member is required to attend at least one ABKC show per year and show one of their dogs.
Beginning 2008, all EE member dues will be due on February 1st.
Elite Edge shirts with the EE logo can only be sold by the Elite Edge. This will ensure that the monies are reinvested into the Elite Edge. Members are permitted to make their own kennel shirts with their kennel name on it.
All new members will be on a probation period for one year. During this probation period, any violation will result in expulsion and all dues paid will be forfeited.
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These rules will be enforced and violations will result in probation and/or expulsion. Each violation will be evaluated on a case by case basis and the penalty will reflect the severity of the violation. The penalty enforced will be strictly at the discretion of EE management.
By signing below, I agree to all of the terms stated above. If I violate any of the aforementioned by-laws, I understand that I will be subject to probation and/or expulsion and that all dues I paid will be forfeited.


Signature of Kennel Representative Date


Print Name and Kennel Name

Being part of The Elite Edge is more than just belonging to a group. It is about friendship and knowing that your fellow member is someone you can trust. These by-laws are here to ensure that our members are considered the best of the best.
Thanks to all who have decided to join. Together, we can make a difference.
Elite Edge Management

[tommy3]

You can obviously tell where their emphasis is. Almost every statement is regarding breeding. I don't see anything regarding preserving the APBT. In fact, they lump the APBT into the same breed as American Bullies, and AST.
The whole thing is ran as a business. For example "Breedings between Elite Edge members will Add EE in front of the Dam’s Kennel name on the new litter registrations." This is an obvious attempt to promote the Elite Edge and bring more money to their organization.

Also what is this?
"If an Elite Edge Members decides to post puppy prices on their website, it should be no less than $2500. What you sell your puppies for behind closed doors is between the Breeder/Seller and the buyer."

The whole idea of posting puppies for sale in the public like that is pretty low in my opinion and the fact that you aren't allowed to post the prices unless it is $2500 gives me the impression that they are trying to preserve this "high dollar" and expensive price attachment to their dogs. Of course, this is another business move.

This really gives me the impression that they are not in it for the dogs. It is a business. If that isn't puppy peddling, I don't know what is.

[FearlessKnight]

You can obviously tell where their emphasis is. Almost every statement is regarding breeding. I don't see anything regarding preserving the APBT. In fact, they lump the APBT into the same breed as American Bullies, and AST.
The whole thing is ran as a business. For example "Breedings between Elite Edge members will Add EE in front of the Dam’s Kennel name on the new litter registrations." This is an obvious attempt to promote the Elite Edge and bring more money to their organization.

Also what is this?
"If an Elite Edge Members decides to post puppy prices on their website, it should be no less than $2500. What you sell your puppies for behind closed doors is between the Breeder/Seller and the buyer."

The whole idea of posting puppies for sale in the public like that is pretty low in my opinion and the fact that you aren't allowed to post the prices unless it is $2500 gives me the impression that they are trying to preserve this "high dollar" and expensive price attachment to their dogs. Of course, this is another business move.

This really gives me the impression that they are not in it for the dogs. It is a business. If that isn't puppy peddling, I don't know what is.
no kidding! Well put!

NOthing but trying to make a $ the really shitty way too if you ask me!

[bullydogs]

What a depressing read. I have to agree with above replies, alot of subject matter associated with $$$$$$. 2500 are u kidding, rather spend 1\5 of that on a gamedog.

[pittychick]

What a depressing read. I have to agree with above replies, alot of subject matter associated with $$$$$$. 2500 are u kidding, rather spend 1\5 of that on a gamedog.
Or go to a pound and pick up a mutt that looks just the same as those dogs going for $2500 for $5 ;)

[screamin'eagle]

...sighs...

[Diesel]

I first saw this a few days ago.. and its as sad, infuriorating, and disheartening this time as it was then. Its so sad that this is what it comes to.. not producing good dogs, but making money and making people THINK you are producing good dogs seems to be the corner stone of the EE philosophy. After all the crap Dave talks about the breed and doing good and all of that, to know this is the type of control that maintains in his camp is kinda sad.
The things that are agreed to and stipulated are just insane to me. Normally i defend bully breeders and fans, on this board. But, this is one case where i step back and say "GET HIM"

[jr Pit Guy]

Sad..... I don't know where to start.

I will say that the way those mutts look, you could buy an English Bulldog, crop the ears, and save a grand or two. You would be getting a very similar dog, except it would actually be purebred.

[renegadepit]

I think its a combination of having structure within the organization and money. When I originally read it I got the immpression that Dave wanted the EE to have a certain level of buisness standards. At the same time you could tell its about money as well. See how's he's forcing EE members to register with the ABKC. A registry that he himself founded$$$$

[elgin64]

some people are amazing. It would be great if they put as much effort into the quality of the dogs as they did in making those by-laws

[bahamutt99]

I like the way the emphasis is about customers, money, and continual promoting of the EE. There is no emphasis on proving your stock, because that might end up costing breeders money, which isn't in line with the policies of the EE. Promote, breed, promote some more. All your base are belong to us.

[ABK]

At least he requires them to reg. w/ ABKC. Maybe ABKC will catch on more.

[coolhandjean]

At least he requires them to reg. w/ ABKC. Maybe ABKC will catch on more.That would be good if they became a strictly ABKC, and all left the ADBA/AADR or whichever others...It would also be nice if they would all start calling them American Bullies, instead of "pit bulls".

[ABK]

That would be good if they became a strictly ABKC, and all left the ADBA/AADR or whichever others...It would also be nice if they would all start calling them American Bullies, instead of "pit bulls".I think that would be awesome. I don't really have anything against American Bullies myself. I just don't like it when their breeders/owners try to pass them off as "pit bulls."

I also don't like the fact that the breeders of American Bullies are price gouging wankers, but we'll save that for another thread. :p

[coolhandjean]

I think that would be awesome. I don't really have anything against American Bullies myself. I just don't like it when their breeders/owners try to pass them off as "pit bulls."Yeah, the only time I have a problem with the AmBull is when they do say that it's an APBT. I personally wouldn't want one, but if they are honest and say this is an American Bully, then I have no problem what-so-ever with them.

Yeah, their prices are outragous, but if someone wants to throw their money into that, then it's their money to waste. I personally couldn't see myself ever paying that much for a puppy, but I also don't like to throw money away.

[ABK]

Me either. A lot of folks like to say we "hate" on them, but most of us don't. I actually think they're cute in an ugly sort of way & those who don't fancy them at all usually don't fault the dog, b/c it can't help what it is. Almost all the folks I have ever spoke to were angry w/ the breeders, not the dogs.

[renegadepit]

At least he requires them to reg. w/ ABKC. Maybe ABKC will catch on more.
He requires them to reg with ABKC because he founded it.

[DryCreek]

Members will not "bate" fellow members into arguments that are geared to promote conflict and unrest within the group.

Bait would be the proper term as in fishing, not bate as in master...:p

All I can say is wow. While I can appreciate that they are trying to maintain a standard (code of ethics), I would in no way agree to these terms personally.

All I see in this is $$$$'s for Dave.

[ABK]

He requires them to reg with ABKC because he founded it.
Who cares??? As long as those Bullies out of the ADBA, AADR, UKC or any other registry that the breeders can manipulate to misrepresent their stock as "pit bulls" I think it's all good.

[Pitbull219]

lol, it's like the dog breeding mafia. I agree with the previous statements made about this, but at least they are attempting to police themselves. I think the game-dog community should try to do a better job of it.....not by these means, but perhaps there is something that can be learned from this.

[misterdogman]

This is the dumbest thing I ever saw, also I love how they point out that nobody can use the EE logo or name, but I seriously doubt they have paid the Incorporation fees or own a business license. I just cant see them going that far to actually see if that name and logo are available. Trust me if you ever tried to get a business license youll see store front names/Inc names are as hard as domain names to find open and available...but regardless even if they were a real Inc...or business Id say still they are retarded and have no idea whats best for OUR breed which they dont even know, because if they did know they would realize they are indeed he worst thing for the breed. By changing and breeding inferior blood from its original purpose is ludicrous. Thats tantamount to taking our best athletes and breeding them to inferior people with many health problems, you think youll come out with something better than the original. I doubt it, it would more turn out like the crap they peddle to people for 2500$+++
This is wrong and I wish people like that would just go make up their own community and seperate themselves as far away as possible from the real APBT community so there is no doubt in anyones minds that we are not linked or in any way joined or even that we own the same breed because we dont and what you sell and lie about is not APBT,...so take is elswhere to peddle your product there little salesman....not here, not in a community where the real APBT is priority.

[renegadepit]

Who cares??? As long as those Bullies out of the ADBA, AADR, UKC or any other registry that the breeders can manipulate to misrepresent their stock as "pit bulls" I think it's all good.
Granted these dogs are not game, definately do not conform by ADBA standards, and some are so extreme that they do not fit UKC standards. But there are ALOT that do fit UKC standards, are UKC judged and pointed

[renegadepit]

This is the dumbest thing I ever saw, also I love how they point out that nobody can use the EE logo or name, but I seriously doubt they have paid the Incorporation fees or own a business license. I just cant see them going that far to actually see if that name and logo are available. Trust me if you ever tried to get a business license youll see store front names/Inc names are as hard as domain names to find open and available...but regardless even if they were a real Inc...or business Id say still they are retarded and have no idea whats best for OUR breed which they dont even know, because if they did know they would realize they are indeed he worst thing for the breed. By changing and breeding inferior blood from its original purpose is ludicrous. Thats tantamount to taking our best athletes and breeding them to inferior people with many health problems, you think youll come out with something better than the original. I doubt it, it would more turn out like the crap they peddle to people for 2500$+++
This is wrong and I wish people like that would just go make up their own community and seperate themselves as far away as possible from the real APBT community so there is no doubt in anyones minds that we are not linked or in any way joined or even that we own the same breed because we dont and what you sell and lie about is not APBT,...so take is elswhere to peddle your product there little salesman....not here, not in a community where the real APBT is priority.
For the first half of your post, Dave Wilson licensed both of his buisnesses (EE and ABKC) with hired attornies representing them, he covers everything. I own a buisness and its not that hard to open and have a license buisness. Its not dog related but Real Estate related here in GA. I would give my website out but I don't know if thats allowed here.

As for the 2nd half. Changing and breeding inferior blood from its original purpose was done when other registries started focusing on showing vs performance and gameness. It originally started almost 70 years ago when AKC started registering APBT as AM Staffs.

[ABK]

... Changing and breeding inferior blood from its original purpose was done when other registries started focusing on showing vs performance and gameness. It originally started almost 70 years ago when AKC started registering APBT as AM Staffs.
Yeah, but at least the AST ppl ...

- didn't promote a mixed breed as pure

- went to another registry that better suited their new breed

- don't promote their dogs as "pit bulls."

Those points there make all the difference in the world!

[jr Pit Guy]

Yeah, but at least the AST ppl ...

- didn't promote a mixed breed as pure

- went to another registry that better suited their new breed

- don't promote their dogs as "pit bulls."

Those points there make all the difference in the world!
I would like to add that most AKC dog owners are the FIRST to say that the Amstaff, SBT, and APBT are all separate breeds, not the same. I've got a bud that gets pi$$ed when people say "nice pit" about his Amstaff. Why do these so called American Bully (rip off of American Bulldog) owners have to ride on our name like it was a ................... nevermind.

[simms]

I would like to add that most AKC dog owners are the FIRST to say that the Amstaff, SBT, and APBT are all separate breeds, not the same. I've got a bud that gets pi$$ed when people say "nice pit" about his Amstaff. Why do these so called American Bully (rip off of American Bulldog) owners have to ride on our name like it was a ................... nevermind.
Why do these so called American Bully (rip off of American Bulldog) owners have to ride on our name like it was a ................... nevermind. Cause they are poser's and can only stomach the shell of a dog. It's like sleeping with the enemey.....

[misterdogman]

For the first half of your post, Dave Wilson licensed both of his buisnesses (EE and ABKC) with hired attornies representing them, he covers everything. I own a buisness and its not that hard to open and have a license buisness. Its not dog related but Real Estate related here in GA. I would give my website out but I don't know if thats allowed here.

As for the 2nd half. Changing and breeding inferior blood from its original purpose was done when other registries started focusing on showing vs performance and gameness. It originally started almost 70 years ago when AKC started registering APBT as AM Staffs.Wow im suprised if what you say is true Im even a little impressed, but it still dont matter because what he is pushing and what you are charging for is a membership to a group that not only tries to attatch itself to the original APBT gamedog.... but it also tries to place a value on dogs. I cant see where you him or anyone thinks its ok to breed those dogs into whatever you want to get a color /shape or even a different prey drive and performance aptitude and try to still pass it off as the original bulldog or APBT. While the whole time groups like yours are dropping lines like "Best of the Best" and "Real Deal Bulldogs" or "Extreme Pitbulls" and whatever else it takes to get people to pay as much as possible since these dogs are so "Rare" and "Special" The truth is they aint ...and have no real connection to APBTs minus the little bit of blood our dogs loaned out to your breed just to have it ruined and bred incorrectly, to realize the truth is to realize that most BSL laws and objections to the breed are caused by people like you, you never see stories about some guy with a yard full of gamedogs having someone mauled or killed by a dog, when you see stories like that 99% of the time its a big blue dog or some other halfbred mutt that resembles an APBT and gives all the real ones a bad rap...and those inferior dogs are like that for 2 reasons...it is because the breeders didnt follow the 2 most important gamedog rules, cull all man biters and breed gamedogs only to gamedogs to preserve what the APBT is , a game but fun loving family dog that is good with everyone, not blue...not 100lbs and 2500$, just having those traits and looks and charging big $ for them dont make it a APBT.
And also 70 years ago there were not any dogs like yours IMO... if they were blue they were most likely still game or came out of a game breeding and there were still quite a few game bred Staffs out there to...so dont try to make it sound like your innocent since you didnt start the trend, but if everyone went to rob a bank tomorrow 70 years from now I cant use that as an excuse to follow their legacy and go rob one too , id still be guilty just like people who ruin my breed 70 years later are...its still wrong and still stupid and pointing the finger at a group of dead people a generation ago doesnt make it cool to keep doing what they started. But I guess I see now this will never end.... I guess years of educating and trying to change moronic ignorant people will just go on forever and ever... since no matter how much we beg people like this to go away to their own little group and quit biting off our name and accomplishments they will just try to go onestep further and like a parasite wiggle into our area and peddle their goods while using such a popular and noble breed as theyre comparison, when we all really know its like Apples and crap being compared, theyre nothing alike.

[jr Pit Guy]

As for the 2nd half. Changing and breeding inferior blood from its original purpose was done when other registries started focusing on showing vs performance and gameness. It originally started almost 70 years ago when AKC started registering APBT as AM Staffs.
Also like to add that 70 years later, an Amstaff stiil resembles an APBT. 10 years after the first bullymutt, you can't say that. ABKC discourages it, and promotes mutant mutts. 70 years from now, if they are still around, they will be twins to the EB. Nevermind, it only took ten.

[ABK]

I don't think ASTs resemble APBTs very much anymore. They're too big & heavy boned IMO. maybe they'd look more like APBTs if they weren't so fat & big boned.

[renegadepit]

Wow im suprised if what you say is true Im even a little impressed, but it still dont matter because what he is pushing and what you are charging for is a membership to a group that not only tries to attatch itself to the original APBT gamedog.... but it also tries to place a value on dogs. I cant see where you him or anyone thinks its ok to breed those dogs into whatever you want to get a color /shape or even a different prey drive and performance aptitude and try to still pass it off as the original bulldog or APBT. While the whole time groups like yours are dropping lines like "Best of the Best" and "Real Deal Bulldogs" or "Extreme Pitbulls" and whatever else it takes to get people to pay as much as possible since these dogs are so "Rare" and "Special" The truth is they aint ...and have no real connection to APBTs minus the little bit of blood our dogs loaned out to your breed just to have it ruined and bred incorrectly, to realize the truth is to realize that most BSL laws and objections to the breed are caused by people like you, you never see stories about some guy with a yard full of gamedogs having someone mauled or killed by a dog, when you see stories like that 99% of the time its a big blue dog or some other halfbred mutt that resembles an APBT and gives all the real ones a bad rap...and those inferior dogs are like that for 2 reasons...it is because the breeders didnt follow the 2 most important gamedog rules, cull all man biters and breed gamedogs only to gamedogs to preserve what the APBT is , a game but fun loving family dog that is good with everyone, not blue...not 100lbs and 2500$, just having those traits and looks and charging big $ for them dont make it a APBT.
And also 70 years ago there were not any dogs like yours IMO... if they were blue they were most likely still game or came out of a game breeding and there were still quite a few game bred Staffs out there to...so dont try to make it sound like your innocent since you didnt start the trend, but if everyone went to rob a bank tomorrow 70 years from now I cant use that as an excuse to follow their legacy and go rob one too , id still be guilty just like people who ruin my breed 70 years later are...its still wrong and still stupid and pointing the finger at a group of dead people a generation ago doesnt make it cool to keep doing what they started. But I guess I see now this will never end.... I guess years of educating and trying to change moronic ignorant people will just go on forever and ever... since no matter how much we beg people like this to go away to their own little group and quit biting off our name and accomplishments they will just try to go onestep further and like a parasite wiggle into our area and peddle their goods while using such a popular and noble breed as theyre comparison, when we all really know its like Apples and crap being compared, theyre nothing alike.
LOL. thats funny
I don't know where to start.
Maybe this comment "when you see stories like that 99% of the time its a big blue dog"
Challenge give me at least 2 articles, okay how about 1 where it was a "big blue dog" forward me a link or something.

100lbs for blues theres only a handful maybe 2-3 that I know of that weigh that. The majority 97% are between 60lbs to 85lbs and thats on the high end.

[misterdogman]

LOL. thats funnyIts only funny to you because its true and you have no foot to stand on or facts to debate back with. It actually to me is not funny at all... it is sad and if you ask any game dog lover here they will agree also it is sad not FUNNY, and by saying that... it is obvious just how serious you are about the real breed called APBT, something so serious and real causing a dilemna to our breed is funny to you? Really? I cant believe that and am shocked that you would have nothing else to say, but the truth does hurt and somethimes it just takes the words right out your mouth so I guess it makes sense that youd be speechless becaue you cant defend what I said since it is all true and you have nothing to use as an argument since there is not one for you to use.

[renegadepit]

Its only funny to you because its true and you have no foot to stand on or facts to debate back with. It actually to me is not funny at all... it is sad and if you ask any game dog lover here they will agree also it is sad not FUNNY, and by saying that... it is obvious just how serious you are about the real breed called APBT, something so serious and real causing a dilemna to our breed is funny to you? Really? I cant believe that and am shocked that you would have nothing else to say, but the truth does hurt and somethimes it just takes the words right out your mouth so I guess it makes sense that youd be speechless becaue you cant defend what I said since it is all true and you have nothing to use as an argument since there is not one for you to use.

I didn't finish, I was laughing when I read that. I could only put lol. I had to read it again.

LOL. thats funny
I don't know where to start.
Maybe this comment "when you see stories like that 99% of the time its a big blue dog"
Challenge give me at least 2 articles, okay how about 1 where it was a "big blue dog" forward me a link or something.

100lbs for blues theres only a handful maybe 2-3 that I know of that weigh that. The majority 97% are between 60lbs to 85lbs and thats on the high end.

[misterdogman]

I didn't finish, I was laughing when I read that. I could only put lol. I had to read it again.

LOL. thats funny
I don't know where to start.
Maybe this comment "when you see stories like that 99% of the time its a big blue dog"
Challenge give me at least 2 articles, okay how about 1 where it was a "big blue dog" forward me a link or something.

100lbs for blues theres only a handful maybe 2-3 that I know of that weigh that. The majority 97% are between 60lbs to 85lbs and thats on the high end.I didnt say it was just blue dogs, reread what I said....look...

99% of the time its a big blue dog or some other halfbred mutt that resembles an APBT

And I will stand by that comment because if it was gamedogs doing it youd see more dogs seized since most gamedog people have more than 1 in the yard and once the law saw a link theyed attack it accuse them of dogfighting and make a law against gamebred dogs, also there have been a lot more than a few 100lb blue mutts, theyre all over the place,,,,and in closing whenever you see something about a APBT it always seems to be a mutt cross or blue and most likely with no real pedigree showing its full blooded and registered...but who takes the rap??? dogs that for 100s of years have been bred to have NO human aggression....pedigreed and all taking the blame for these mutts on its shoulders because some people cant keep their mutts to themselves and have to use our name and legacy to give their mutts a legitament foot to stand on...

[renegadepit]

I didnt say it was just blue dogs, reread what I said....look...

99% of the time its a big blue dog or some other halfbred mutt that resembles an APBT

And I will stand by that comment because if it was gamedogs doing it youd see more dogs seized since most gamedog people have more than 1 in the yard and once the law saw a link theyed attack it accuse them of dogfighting and make a law against gamebred dogs, also there have been a lot more than a few 100lb blue mutts, theyre all over the place,,,,and in closing whenever you see something about a APBT it always seems to be a mutt cross or blue and most likely with no real pedigree showing its full blooded and registered...but who takes the rap??? dogs that for 100s of years have been bred to have NO human aggression....pedigreed and all taking the blame for these mutts on its shoulders because some people cant keep their mutts to themselves and have to use our name and legacy to give their mutts a legitament foot to stand on...
Show me proof other than talk about BLUES only. I've been involved with blues for a while. I know about the ones that are 100lbs. I could show you proof of the ones that are, I've gone to shows, I have pictures. and trust me there not "all over the place". A small handfull.
I can not say if the dogs doing these things were gamebred or not. 1) When the media talks about a dog that has done this they do not post pedigrees. They simply say a pitbull. I have not seen blue one in the media doing this. Show me one please a link or something.
And as far as this comment "what you are charging for is a membership to a group that not only tries to attatch itself to the original APBT gamedog" Are you talking about me? I'm not part of the Elite Edge. I started this post to show the breeding standards and practices of the Elite Edge. As far as the 2nd have of the statement Dave Wilson will be the first to tell you that his dogs are not game or gamebred. He states that his dogs are a mix of ADBA pit bulls and Show AM Staff. I've seen pedigrees and the foundation of these dogs are 95% Am staff.
And this one "And also 70 years ago there were not any dogs like yours IMO"
lol. Have you seen any of my dogs?

[tommy3]

I didn't finish, I was laughing when I read that. I could only put lol. I had to read it again.

LOL. thats funny
I don't know where to start.
Maybe this comment "when you see stories like that 99% of the time its a big blue dog"
Challenge give me at least 2 articles, okay how about 1 where it was a "big blue dog" forward me a link or something.

100lbs for blues theres only a handful maybe 2-3 that I know of that weigh that. The majority 97% are between 60lbs to 85lbs and thats on the high end.Actually, there have been people who have come to this forum and have claimed that there are never any big mutts or blue dogs that attack people. They said that we were making it all up and that it was the smaller "game-type" dogs. So, I posted around a dozen articles about 80+ lb "pit bulls" and blue "pit bulls" which attacked people. The thread is somewhere in this forum. I don't have time to look for it right now but the I can give you much more than 2 articles regarding these mutts attacking people. Also, there is no telling how many huge mutts were labeled as pit bulls without a mention of color or size.

[ABK]

In most stories, the color is not related, so we don't know how many offenders are blue. But sometimes size is related, so we know at times the offending dogs ARE those blue bred curs. Further, if one looks at the situation itself, one can guess the attacking dog is probably one bred for looks b/c

- most gamebred dogs are valuable athletes who are securely kept up

- most gamebred dogs will not attack a human

But here are 2 links anyway. In one case, the attacking dogs are 80 lbs each (1 M & 1 F) & in the other case the attacking dog was a 65 lb female. Defintely not gamebred dogs if you ask me.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=97397

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_249000146.html

[misterdogman]

Show me proof other than talk about BLUES only. I've been involved with blues for a while. I know about the ones that are 100lbs. I could show you proof of the ones that are, I've gone to shows, I have pictures. and trust me there not "all over the place". A small handfull.
I can not say if the dogs doing these things were gamebred or not. 1) When the media talks about a dog that has done this they do not post pedigrees. They simply say a pitbull. I have not seen blue one in the media doing this. Show me one please a link or something.
And as far as this comment "what you are charging for is a membership to a group that not only tries to attatch itself to the original APBT gamedog" Are you talking about me? I'm not part of the Elite Edge. I started this post to show the breeding standards and practices of the Elite Edge. As far as the 2nd have of the statement Dave Wilson will be the first to tell you that his dogs are not game or gamebred. He states that his dogs are a mix of ADBA pit bulls and Show AM Staff. I've seen pedigrees and the foundation of these dogs are 95% Am staff.
And this one "And also 70 years ago there were not any dogs like yours IMO"
lol. Have you seen any of my dogs?
No I havent seen your dogs but from the post you put up and the group your speaking for it seemed to me you owned bully dogs or some other strain, Alas its wrong for me to assume... but I did and I went there because I dont care what you own, by just backing some dumb group that supports the breeding of two non APBTs and calling them pure and charging huge sums of money for them..your just as guilty of destroying the breed as they are even if you own game stuff.... no matter what you own it still means your backing the destruction of our breed.
As far as media and dog bites go, they dont post peds because the people who own the biting dog dont usually have any peds, if it was a pedigreed dog or gamebred off a yard of many more there would be a huge deal about it, everyone would jump on the bandwagon to get them outlawed...but they cant because there is no proof so they just generically call them all APBT whether or not it is, if it looks like one acts like one then it must be one...but thats a myth...... it isnt one... and the only reason they get called that is from people like the ones in this group who use a term they dont deserve to use. But it works because....everyone who bought a mutt mix or blue dog really thought they were getting something real and good since they used a name that was synonomous with quiality and courage and gameness,...They used ABPT as a marketing tool to sell mutts with a certain color or they have some cross mutts that look like APBTs so thats what they get called even though those dogs were not selectively bred to remove man biting tendencies and maintain a performance bred gamedog, so just by doing that when one does bite and gives the APBT a bad rap they are doing it by lying and not preserving the lines we worked so hard to maintain the right way.... after being handed a legacy of good dogs from past dogmen...by selective breeding in the good and out the bad...we were doing the right thing, this group and people like that are not only destroying past dogmens gifts to us but they are destroying the name and breed...and doing the wrong thing.

[renegadepit]

In most stories, the color is not related, so we don't know how many offenders are blue. But sometimes size is related, so we know at times the offending dogs ARE those blue bred curs. Further, if one looks at the situation itself, one can guess the attacking dog is probably one bred for looks b/c

- most gamebred dogs are valuable athletes who are securely kept up

- most gamebred dogs will not attack a human

But here are 2 links anyway. In one case, the attacking dogs are 80 lbs each (1 M & 1 F) & in the other case the attacking dog was a 65 lb female. Defintely not gamebred dogs if you ask me.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=97397

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_249000146.htmlYour right in saying that color is mentioned. Just wondering if the weight is true. 80lbs and 65lbs. You know the media tends to blow things a little out of porportion. I aggree about on those to statements about gamebred dogs. To be honest about mine (can't speak for others) Not all but most of my dogs have been friendly to people. I use to have a female gamebred (very game) dog (3 times perles deadlift) who was a little skidish around people and will bite. But overall most have been friendly.

[renegadepit]

Again, I started the thread to show the breeding practices and standards of the elite edge. For informational purposes only is was what I put on the first sentence on the first thread.
I do own a blue and I've owned gamebred as well. I've posted plenty of pictures of him on here before. Here is one that I just took outside about 10 minutes ago.

[jr Pit Guy]

I don't think ASTs resemble APBTs very much anymore. They're too big & heavy boned IMO. maybe they'd look more like APBTs if they weren't so fat & big boned.
I agree, to an extent. I have seen some UKC stuff lately that could almost pass for an Amstaff. I was commenting that after 70+ years of segregation, you can still tell that they came from the APBT. I do agree they are getting a little thick, though. 10 years later, can you tell that there is ANY APBT blood in those bullys? That's all I meant.

[Titch_Pitbull]

Good looking dog renegade.

[misterdogman]

Again, I started the thread to show the breeding practices and standards of the elite edge. For informational purposes only is was what I put on the first sentence on the first thread.
I do own a blue and I've owned gamebred as well. I've posted plenty of pictures of him on here before. Here is one that I just took outside about 10 minutes ago.You know whats "Funny" to me? That some group of people have breeding practices and standards for dogs that shouldnt ever be bred in the first place...According to the real breeding standards of the real breed which they try to liken themselves too. If these dogs were so truly APBT there would be strict guidelines to adhere to,... like we do with our real APBTs...but there isnt and the population soars since these people will back anything up to their studs if they can hear the Cha-Ching in their pockets...
So basically by not adhering to the rules and producing dogs with less game ability and breeding for color and body features your in the essence of the word not "Breeding" APBTs your "Creating" a seperate breed with no standards or good qualities from APBTs used to maintain your lines...just whatever... it all works....as long as they can be sold as APBTs and make this group money then do it...yeah what a good plan and honorable hobby...ruin ones name sake to sell another fake version with the same name...sounds unfair to me..but what is fair these days in the dog world, groups like this are a dime for a bakers dozen...

[jr Pit Guy]

How about this for a spin?

The breeding standard/practices of Elite APBT members.



The Elite APBT is not just the name of the group but a statement to the APBT community that a unified front is here to promote the breed and establish a higher standard of APBTs. The Elite APBT is here to change the negativity that has plagued this noble breed and ensure its acceptance into mainstream society. To achieve this, a set of by-laws has been established for those kennels who wish to be a part of The Elite APBT. These by-laws are to ensure those who do business with our members can expect a consistent level of quality and service.

By joining The Elite APBT you agree to the following:


<DIR>

Member kennels are limited to no more dogs than he/she can maintain. "Yard" is defined as one location. If you have partners, each separate location is considered a different yard.
Upon request, member kennels can be inspected to see if an acceptable level of care and living conditions exist for dogs under the member kennel care.
Promote the APBT in a positive manner.
Establish and maintain a high level of breeding ethics.
Strive to improve the breed.
Members will not breed their *****es until after they prove themselves in one form or another, whether they hunt, show, pull, or compete in agility.
No member shall breed to the point he or she can be considered a puppy mill.
Must not breed unproven/non-working dogs in anyway.
Members will not do business with anyone who owes money to another Elite APBT member, anyone who is shady, or anyone looking to make a profit off of the APBT.
Any member who is found willfully deceiving or cheating a fellow member will be immediately dismissed from the group and all respect will be lost.
Members agree to settle disputes with customers or members in a professional manner.
Registration papers for puppies sold by our members will be sent out within a reasonable time period.
All members will show and treat their fellow members with a degree of respect.
All members are welcome to have a website up and running, but should not sell to the general public.
All members are welcome to register their dogs with whomever they choose.
Kennels outside of the Elite APBT seeking to use an Elite APBT Stud will be required to have a proven *****, preferrably from lines that will compliment each other.
Elite APBT breedings should be offered to our small circle only. This will ensure that the Elite APBT Family retains the best of the best.
If an Elite APBT Member decides to post puppy prices on their website, it should not be sold to the general public.
Members are permitted to make their own kennel shirts with their kennel name on it.
All new members will be on a probation period for one year. During this probation period, any violation, peddling, or mix breeding with mutts will result in expulsion.

</DIR>

These rules will be enforced and violations will result in probation and/or expulsion. Each violation will be evaluated on a case by case basis and the penalty will reflect the severity of the violation. The penalty enforced will be strictly at the discretion of the APBT community.
By signing below, I agree to all of the terms stated above. If I violate any of the aforementioned by-laws, I understand that I will be subject to probation and/or expulsion.


Print Name and Kennel Name

Being part of The Elite APBT is more than just belonging to a group. It is about friendship and knowing that your fellow member is someone you can trust. These by-laws are here to ensure that our members and their dogs are considered the best of the best.
Thanks to all who have decided to join. Together, we can make a difference.

[frenchie1936]

the fact that renegade even put up this thread in the first place seems a little antagonistic to me. and then when you continue to read all the posts it becomes obvious what his intentions were. save your mutt loving and promoting to a site not specifically just for GAME dogs. if you are so fond of those curs go hang out on a site that welcomes that b.s. starting threads to get reactions out of people is not only childish and immature, but it really is enlightening as to your true level of dedication to this breed. a lot of us do try to do our best, and it is frustrating as hell to have to put up with this kind of shit. seriously. and even the one person on here who defends american bully's basically told you to eat it. here's your sign.....

[renegadepit]

How about this for a spin?

The breeding standard/practices of Elite APBT members.



The Elite APBT is not just the name of the group but a statement to the APBT community that a unified front is here to promote the breed and establish a higher standard of APBTs. The Elite APBT is here to change the negativity that has plagued this noble breed and ensure its acceptance into mainstream society. To achieve this, a set of by-laws has been established for those kennels who wish to be a part of The Elite APBT. These by-laws are to ensure those who do business with our members can expect a consistent level of quality and service.

By joining The Elite APBT you agree to the following:




<DIR>


Member kennels are limited to no more dogs than he/she can maintain. "Yard" is defined as one location. If you have partners, each separate location is considered a different yard.
Upon request, member kennels can be inspected to see if an acceptable level of care and living conditions exist for dogs under the member kennel care.
Promote the APBT in a positive manner.
Establish and maintain a high level of breeding ethics.
Strive to improve the breed.
Members will not breed their *****es until after they prove themselves in one form or another, whether they hunt, show, pull, or compete in agility.
No member shall breed to the point he or she can be considered a puppy mill.
Must not breed unproven/non-working dogs in anyway.
Members will not do business with anyone who owes money to another Elite APBT member, anyone who is shady, or anyone looking to make a profit off of the APBT.
Any member who is found willfully deceiving or cheating a fellow member will be immediately dismissed from the group and all respect will be lost.
Members agree to settle disputes with customers or members in a professional manner.
Registration papers for puppies sold by our members will be sent out within a reasonable time period.
All members will show and treat their fellow members with a degree of respect.
All members are welcome to have a website up and running, but should not sell to the general public.
All members are welcome to register their dogs with whomever they choose.
Kennels outside of the Elite APBT seeking to use an Elite APBT Stud will be required to have a proven *****, preferrably from lines that will compliment each other.
Elite APBT breedings should be offered to our small circle only. This will ensure that the Elite APBT Family retains the best of the best.
If an Elite APBT Member decides to post puppy prices on their website, it should not be sold to the general public.
Members are permitted to make their own kennel shirts with their kennel name on it.
All new members will be on a probation period for one year. During this probation period, any violation, peddling, or mix breeding with mutts will result in expulsion.


</DIR>


These rules will be enforced and violations will result in probation and/or expulsion. Each violation will be evaluated on a case by case basis and the penalty will reflect the severity of the violation. The penalty enforced will be strictly at the discretion of the APBT community.
By signing below, I agree to all of the terms stated above. If I violate any of the aforementioned by-laws, I understand that I will be subject to probation and/or expulsion.


Print Name and Kennel Name

Being part of The Elite APBT is more than just belonging to a group. It is about friendship and knowing that your fellow member is someone you can trust. These by-laws are here to ensure that our members and their dogs are considered the best of the best.
Thanks to all who have decided to join. Together, we can make a difference.
That was awesome!

[frenchie1936]

That was awesome!

you're a joke. for the love of God.......

[misterdogman]

you're a joke. for the love of God.......Well said, I agree these days there are sadly many Blue/ Mutt bred APBT sites out there that are willing and ready to absorb another into their web of lies and the world of dogs bred for no reason other than just for profit. If you need help I am sure someone here can provide some links... I tried but unfortunately my computer cant look at stuff like that since I have a "Retarded Website filter" on 24-7 and they never show up in my searches.

[screamin'eagle]

unfortunately my computer cant look at stuff like that since I have a "Retarded Website filter" on 24-7 and they never show up in my searches.
lol.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to misterdogman again.

[jr Pit Guy]

That was awesome!
Whoa, hey...don't hide behind me, that was a slander towards your OP. If those mutt breeders actually went by those standards, the mutts themselves wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be in nearly as mush crap with the media as we are. As a matter of fact, if the originators of the real APBT had stuck by this, the APBT would never have gotten media coverage. Sure, alot of us wouldn't own or have heard of the APBT, but that would be fine by me because most people don't deserve to own these dogs anyhow. At least there wouldn't be as much BSL popping up everywhere, M. Vick wouldn't have gotten one, and neither would Dave Wilson.

[screamin'eagle]

Whoa, hey...don't hide behind me, that was a slander towards your OP. If those mutt breeders actually went by those standards, the mutts themselves wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be in nearly as mush crap with the media as we are. As a matter of fact, if the originators of the real APBT had stuck by this, the APBT would never have gotten media coverage. Sure, alot of us wouldn't own or have heard of the APBT, but that would be fine by me because most people don't deserve to own these dogs anyhow. At least there wouldn't be as much BSL popping up everywhere, M. Vick wouldn't have gotten one, and neither would Dave Wilson.I am coming more in line with this point of view daily. It used to be a hypothetical question, but its becoming more of a wish for me. Yes, if everything could go back...I would sacrifice having owned an APBT for the sake of restoring the breed.

[renegadepit]

Whoa, hey...don't hide behind me, that was a slander towards your OP. If those mutt breeders actually went by those standards, the mutts themselves wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be in nearly as mush crap with the media as we are. As a matter of fact, if the originators of the real APBT had stuck by this, the APBT would never have gotten media coverage. Sure, alot of us wouldn't own or have heard of the APBT, but that would be fine by me because most people don't deserve to own these dogs anyhow. At least there wouldn't be as much BSL popping up everywhere, M. Vick wouldn't have gotten one, and neither would Dave Wilson.Hinding behind you! WTF was that about. I can't have an opinion on your post. My first post that I started had 2 sentences which were "For Informational purposes only. Attached is the breeding standard/practices of Dave Wilson's Elite Edge members and Razors Edge"
Thats it! The post is not my opinion. I coppied the by laws of EE and posted it.
I didn't say "I support the following." Just wanted your guys thoughts on it.
On post #9 I was "Slandering" my OP as well. Saying that EE "Combination of structure and Money" In other words there in it for money. Now you say something that I thought was "awesome" and I'm hinding behind you.lol lol lol lol
As far as Frenchie. This post was great until post #44 (yours) Before that almost every post was referring to the EE by laws, there was no Drama or name calling, simply debating. Listen GOOD!! I'm to Grown for name calling.
The person who supports Bullies on this site was not referring to me personally (like you are) when he said "get him". READ HIS POST He was referring to the post "Dave Wilson, EE and there by laws"
I do not go on posts and name call. Calling someone childish, immature. WTF, Thats immature. Grow up. The people that are childish here at my house I own are my 2 kids ages 5 and 7. I'm too old for that. This isn't High School. This website is for APBT info. Maybe you are in high school. (No offense to high schoolers.) Before your shit, I was simply debating. I was challenging views. No name calling on me. I didn't call anyone on here names. Seriously grow up. If your gonna debate than debate.

[chinasmom]

Cause they are poser's and can only stomach the shell of a dog. It's like sleeping with the enemey.....
Exactly.... American Bullies?

[Sid Finster]

The real question is whether the names "Razor's Edge" "Elite Edge", associated logos, slogans, etc. are trademarked? They probably have a common law trademark, but I suspect that ol "Dave" wants to protect his poorly bred investment by actually filing for trademark protection.

Yup, 169% puppy peddler who is now franchising out his operations. His mama must be so proud.

[miakoda]

This thread is closed.

This isn't the board to continue to try and convince people that mixed breed dogs are "pits" or "pit bulls" or even worse "APBTs." They have enough boards full of ingorant and downright stupid members that these types of threads can move on to.

We know the truth behind these dogs. Just because some people want to ride the name of the APBT and it's history yet slap it on a completely different breed of dog doesn't make it right nor will we allow it to happen quietly. Get real.

Take this crap elsewhere!

(& ABK is right in that Dave stated that he crossed "gamebred" APBTs with ASTs AND other breeds......that leaves it open to interpretation such as English Bulldogs, Neopolitan Mastiffs, American Bulldogs, etc. He also went on to basically state he did so because "gamebred" APBTs were vicious and not good with humans and unpredicatable.........what a lover of the breed he is. Not to mention he singlehandedly started the largest "pit bull" puppy peddling operation in history.)