Any ideas?

[pittychick]

I had a neighbor come to me and ask if I had any ideas what may have happened to his dog. The vet was baffled...and after hearing which vet he brought her too I understand why (I don't know how they're in business).

I guess she was on some medication that increased the amount she drank. Her vet said it would last about 2 weeks. This was 3 months ago. Apparantly they never thought of it as being an issue, and just assumed it was the medication. This was the only thing they could think of as being abnormal.

The other morning when he woke up there were 5 huge piles of vomit. He took her out and she seemed fine. He thought she ate too much food...they free feed out of an automatic feeder. She never really does it, but she had once previously a few years back.

Later in the day he took her out and she went to the wooded fence line and paced. She never goes into the woods and always stays right by the porch. It was very odd behavior. She laid down and refused to get up.

He brought her to the animal hospital where she yelped and tried to bite at the vet if she went near her stomach...started vomitting again (she hadn't eaten anything that day). They had to tie her down to do any examination she was freaking so bad.

All did find a small puncture wound that nobody saw on her hock (she was a very hairy dog and never showed that there was a wound).

The next morning her kidneys failed and they had to euthanize her.

Now....the vets are clueless....send they didn't think that a toxin screen would be helpful. The dog was perfectly fine until the vomit that morning. WTH could it be? My first thought was some sort of poison. But he doesn't know how she could've gotten into anything. Anybody else have ideas?

[Michele]

Bloat?.......

[pittychick]

That was the second thing that came to mind...but wouldn't it be obvious to a vet?? How stupid does the vet have to be not to actually look for that?

Also, would it cause kidney failure?

[Michele]

Here's a link on it:


http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/bloat.html

[chinasmom]

Just a guess, but maybe her intestines twisted and ruptured, that led to poisening her system and that led to kidney failure. Don't know aything else except bloat or the wound on her leg. Don't know why they wouldn't do a tox screen though. You said it was for two weeks and that was for the meds, right? But she was still drinking a lot for three months? Did they not notice her stomach being larger?

[simms]

I dont know how stupid a vet has to be to become a DVM. However I have seen my fair share of stupid animal owners.

What makes you suspect bloat? From the description I would'nt speculate towards that.

What about poison?
What about botcholism (sp?)?

Sounds as if the owner has no real clue what went wrong with thier animal.

I mean i can kick this guy in the balls all day long, but the only thing this thread is doing is kicken that prevebial dead dog.

[Michele]

but maybe her intestines twisted and ruptured, that led to poisening her system and that led to kidney failure.
that could lead to bloat

[simms]

that could lead to bloat
X-ray. right lateral view.

[chinasmom]

X-ray. right lateral view.


Yea. Sounds like a new vet is also required.

[simms]

X-ray. right lateral view.


Yea. Sounds like a new vet is also required.
How can you say that? bit's and pieces of a story.....you dont know if the owner declined certain services?

[pittychick]

The guy that had her at the vet doesn't know a damn thing about dogs. He's the owner's son and they were away. He's old enough to be responsible for them...but at the same time wouldn't know what exactly to ask. But IMO for a vet to steer somebody (who is inexperienced) away from receiving services that could prove what happened is horrible. I would've done xrays and tox screens, etc....the vet said that tox screens would not be helpful...I know most vets I have used would definitely have done a tox screen in that instance.

I definitely didn't post this thread to get anybody bashed, but I do want to state that I HAVE used this vet for Java ONE time. He had been playing and twisted his leg in a hole. He limped for a week...leg swelled on the 9th day so I took him in. She said it was elbow dysplasia. When I asked about xrays she said there was no need she just knew what it was and wanted to charge me all this money for meds. Needless to say...it wasn't dysplasia! Unfortunately it's the only animal hospital close enough if there is an emergency.

[chinasmom]

How can you say that? bit's and pieces of a story.....you dont know if the owner declined certain services?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's true. The poster stated the Vet didn't think a tox screen was neccesary. You suspect poisoning. So why not a tox screen. You suggested the x-ray. Why not a X-ray. And she stated herself he wasn't that great. Therefore, I'm just going by what I have read. :) <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[simms]

How can you say that? bit's and pieces of a story.....you dont know if the owner declined certain services?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's true. The poster stated the Vet didn't think a tox screen was neccesary. You suspect poisoning. So why not a tox screen. You suggested the x-ray. Why not a X-ray. And she stated herself he wasn't that great. Therefore, I'm just going by what I have read. :) <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
a Right lateral view will confirm if it is a gdv. The body will present symptoms.

[chinasmom]

a Right lateral view will confirm if it is a gdv. The body will present symptoms.

True again. Normally they are restless, salivate, dry heave, and have pale color in gums. And usually dogs fed once a day are more likely to get GDV than one fed twice a day.

[LuvinBullies]

Was the medication the dog on a type of quinolone antibiotic by any chance? They are a dreadful -yet popular- new group of antibiotics with horrible side effects. My father (an anesthesiologist) is convinced my mom's dog died from them. The symptoms sound similar- including the kidney failure and also lots of fluid retention. When they finally euthanized my mom's poor dog fluid gushed from her mouth and nose...it was awful. I don't know, just an idea...

[Suki]

ok, so she's on medication...
what was the medication for initially?
side effects of cotizone, steriods come to mind for me...
what was the medication anyhow? j/c any clue?

[Titch_Pitbull]

Strange I didnt think a bloated dog could survive 3 months.

[simms]

Strange I didnt think a bloated dog could survive 3 months.
They cant...lol

[pittychick]

I talked to him last night and he said that the medication was for Cushing's disease. The vet did bloodwork and determined it was not the cushings that killed the dog. That's all that she tested for apparantly. I'm not sure what type of medication it was. I'm not familiar with cushings in dogs. Having read the description of symptoms it sounds like it very well could have been the cushings, but blood work determined it was not so I'm not sure.

[CynthiaATL]

How can you say that? bit's and pieces of a story.....you dont know if the owner declined certain services?That was my thought as well. Some owners do not realize that all those tests like CBC/Superchem, XRays........to name a few. The rule with diagnostics are that you have to rule out what it is not before you can find out what it is (sometimes). And some owners do not or can not pay for that. Then they blame the Vet. I have seen it. You bring the estimate in the room and they say no.

Now I do not want to say either party was stupid. I was not there. But we do not know the whole story. And with GDV you can not miss it. Well I shouldn't say that some owners do. Also there are tons of things that can cause Kidney failure.

If your friend is so concerned why did they not do a necropsy. That may answer his questions.

I will share a story. Last week we had a owner come in. He thought his dog was in heat. Well his dog had a prolaspsed rectum along with intusseption (when the intstines turn in on themselves). Now which is it and can you say well he did not know. But wait it was like that for 4 days before he brought her in. At what point do you call him stupid or "well he just did not know"

[simms]

That was my thought as well. Some owners do not realize that all those tests like CBC/Superchem, XRays........to name a few. The rule with diagnostics are that you have to rule out what it is not before you can find out what it is (sometimes). And some owners do not or can not pay for that. Then they blame the Vet. I have seen it. You bring the estimate in the room and they say no.

Now I do not want to say either party was stupid. I was not there. But we do not know the whole story. And with GDV you can not miss it. Well I shouldn't say that some owners do. Also there are tons of things that can cause Kidney failure.

If your friend is so concerned why did they not do a necropsy. That may answer his questions.

I will share a story. Last week we had a owner come in. He thought his dog was in heat. Well his dog had a prolaspsed rectum along with intusseption (when the intstines turn in on themselves). Now which is it and can you say well he did not know. But wait it was like that for 4 days before he brought her in. At what point do you call him stupid or "well he just did not know" Well, you dont call them stupid, not saying that you would either. This is learned knowledge, ppl are not born with.....however I will say that it can come easier for some than others.

Unless you are experiencing it or have it is hard to realy get the jist of it.

I cant save the world. At the end of the day my reward is my ability to bridge the gap.

[CynthiaATL]

Well, you dont call them stupid, not saying that you would either. This is learned knowledge, ppl are not born with.....however I will say that it can come easier for some than others.

Unless you are experiencing it or have it is hard to realy get the jist of it.

I cant save the world. At the end of the day my reward is my ability to bridge the gap.I understand learned knowledge and I do not exspect the general public to know what us in Vet Med know.

But when you see something that looks like a bloody cucumber sticking out the dogs ass and you leave it for 4 days. Well Something is not right. Wait the dog did not shit in 4 days either.

Common sense plays a part in it as well.

And about saving them all that is the first lesson you learn in Vet Med.

[simms]

I understand learned knowledge and I do not exspect the general public to know what us in Vet Med know.

But when you see something that looks like a bloody cucumber sticking out the dogs ass and you leave it for 4 days. Well Something is not right. Wait the dog did not shit in 4 days either.

Common sense plays a part in it as well.

And about saving them all that is the first lesson you learn in Vet Med.
I agree ppl lack in common sense,sometimes the pet just takes a back seat to the priority set in the house hold.

I use to work in a emergency practice. The stuff that comes through the door ....unbeleivable! Something as simple as flea and tick prevention can save a animal from a very painfull death.

Treat em and street em :)

[Suki]

That was my thought as well. Some owners do not realize that all those tests like CBC/Superchem, XRays........to name a few. The rule with diagnostics are that you have to rule out what it is not before you can find out what it is (sometimes). And some owners do not or can not pay for that. Then they blame the Vet. I have seen it. You bring the estimate in the room and they say no.

i second this, having witnessed it several times, as well.
and also, i was thinking the same thing: dog's already gone, so why not determine what the exact cause of death is and do the necropsy, if the concern is so great? ...would answer the initial question and solve this issue...