gr. ch. blue bully

[BoiBoi]

can someone look up the ped for "couturier's gr. ch. blue bully" for me. Also if anyone has any info on this dog please share
YIS
B

[BoiBoi]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=7067

well i find the ped, kinda curious about this dog, anyone know anything

[BoiBoi]

ah...hell never mind its just a bluff with some tiny bit of game lines, nothin to talk about.

[ABK]

Here is what I know, you can take it for what it's worth.

Blue Bully was owned by Casey Couturier of Watchdog Kennels. While Bully was not a pit CH. (his GR.CH is a show GR.CH.) he was said to have been game tested & shown very game.

This is one reason why CC left the UKC. They looked down on game testing & CC wanted his dogs to be true bulldogs, so he packed his stuff & took him & his dogs to the ADBA. CC has since gotten out of APBTs & now is in American Bulldogs.

Like any line, there are pluses & minuses in the Bully line. The main plus is that he has thrown good looking blues that can win in the show ring & are still game. The main minus is there are several genetic defects run in the line, most predominantly, cancer.

Hope this helps.

[renegadepit]

The dog was a great producer of blues including the Watchdog line, Chaos etc.
his dogs ped has some good old Ruffian blood. Ruffian is the line that produced Juan Gotti (gottiline)

[miakoda]

Ruffian is the line that produced Juan Gotti (gottiline)

Along with some English Bulldog.

I only say that because I don't think it's fair to link a somewhat decent blue dog to a monstrosity and embarrassment of the "pit bull" world.

[ABK]

Bully did not "produce" the Watchdog line. Watchdog Knls was around long before Bully & they actually based their line on a dog called Couturier's Blue Max II, who was Bully's sire.

Chaos Knls was around before Bully too. Their original base was off Persinger's Molly Bee. They only aquired Bully after Casey got out of pit bulls & sold off his stock.

As for Gotti, everyone knows he is a paper hung mixed breed. :(

[jr Pit Guy]

As for Gotti, everyone knows he is a paper hung mixed breed. :(
You would hope everybody knows this by now, unfortunately......

[ABK]

Naw, there are some out there who have not yet "heard the news." Or they are in denial, either one.

I'm just glad there aren't any reputable breeders of Ruffian ASTs on here. They probably would have keeled over in shock to hear Gotti's name even associated w/ the name Ruffian. Or they survived the shock, they would have flamed the person who mentioned it into a crispy critter! http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/surprised/flamed.gif

But anyway ... we don't want this thread to degenerate into ANOTHER debate on the purebred status of Gotti. :rolleyes:

So to anyone who has questions about what we've said, I say use the search engine on the site. You will find many discussions on Gotti & his lineage, to include pedigrees & comparison pictures, so please do not debate it here.

[renegadepit]

I don't think Juan Gotty Himself was mixed. Especially EB. Juan Gotty is too tall to have EB. Some internet photos of him have been stretched to make him look wider than he really is. I think he looks like his sire Raider 2. Gotty is double bred Raider 2
And Raider 2 looks like his sire Tony's showtime.
I do believe that SOME of Gotty's offspring is mixed.
Here are pictures of Juan Gotty, His sire Raider 2 and His Grandsire Tony's Showtime. They all resemble each other.

[jr Pit Guy]

I don't know about all of that, here is what I have seen:
http://www.broadstbullies.com/images/gotti1.gifhttp://www.contagiouspits.com/images/ped_pics/gotti.jpg


and the most "notorious" pic:

http://www.ablepaws.org/gotty3.jpg
That last pic, I could see being stretched, but the first one, I doubt it. Honestly, I think he was crossed into mastiff blood, but someone added EB later to obtain the "bully" look. Even in the pic posted by the previous person, he has those mastiff lips, you know what I mean.

One last thing, if he was so great in the "bully" community, how come you NEVER hear of any sibling of Gotti? I mean, if he was so wonderful, why didn't they do another breeding and where are his littermates?

[kane85]

I don't know about all of that, here is what I have seen:
http://www.broadstbullies.com/images/gotti1.gifhttp://www.contagiouspits.com/images/ped_pics/gotti.jpg


and the most "notorious" pic:

http://www.ablepaws.org/gotty3.jpg
That last pic, I could see being stretched, but the first one, I doubt it. Honestly, I think he was crossed into mastiff blood, but someone added EB later to obtain the "bully" look. Even in the pic posted by the previous person, he has those mastiff lips, you know what I mean.

One last thing, if he was so great in the "bully" community, how come you NEVER hear of any sibling of Gotti? I mean, if he was so wonderful, why didn't they do another breeding and where are his littermates?
That is very true I agree 100% with this if he was such a good prodcer where are the littermates they could of raide on gottis name that's how a lot of the bullys are doing now

[screamin'eagle]

http://www.contagiouspits.com/images/ped_pics/gotti.jpg

In my opinion this pic is the most telling. Check out post #6 in this thread...
http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22625&highlight=gotti
where Miakoda juxtaposed this pic with one of an AKC English Bulldog.

Although I am by far no expert...it's hard to see the two side by side, and think the EB influence came later.
Also in the above picture posted of gotti's sire (the middle pic) in the face, and body.

[Titch_Pitbull]

"One last thing, if he was so great in the "bully" community, how come you NEVER hear of any sibling of Gotti? I mean, if he was so wonderful, why didn't they do another breeding and where are his littermates?"


I hear plenty about his offspring. look no further than a dog called Monster.

[jr Pit Guy]

This pic actually tells me the most. He is standing, not sitting. Also, there is a person directly behind him, which gives me reference to his actual size.
http://www.broadstbullies.com/images/gotti1.gif



This pic is taken while sitting down, and taken from above. While sitting, a dog's chest naturally looks wider. If you don't think so, look at your own dog next time he/she sits. No, their chest won't look THAT atrocious, but it will expand some.


http://www.contagiouspits.com/images/ped_pics/gotti.jpg

I say OEB, or some sort of mastiff was added. Possibly even American Bulldog.

[jr Pit Guy]

"One last thing, if he was so great in the "bully" community, how come you NEVER hear of any sibling of Gotti? I mean, if he was so wonderful, why didn't they do another breeding and where are his littermates?"


I hear plenty about his offspring. look no further than a dog called Monster.
I'm not talking about Gotti's offspring, there are plenty. I'm talking about full brothers and sisters. I would especially be interested in seeing the rest of Gotti's littermates, just for S&G.

[screamin'eagle]

I say OEB, or some sort of mastiff was added. Possibly even American Bulldog.I was going to go back and add that pic back into my post above, but I couldn't. That one also, and the pic of Raider II Tell alot.

When bred...the offspring's characteristics usually equal the average of the ancestors. Assuming that these other breeds were mixed in somewhere...the more gotti/gotti breedings (or if he is double bred raider II as was posted above) the more recessive genes will come up more often, and whatever was mixed in becomes more and more evident through the generations.

[renegadepit]

I'm glad this is a civil discussion here.
As far as Juan Gotty's littermate, I Know of a couple. One was a female that was owned by Ablepaws kennel. Her name was Sheboz. She recently passed away. You could check her out at http://www.ablepaws.org/sheboz.html

Tony Moore produced Juan Gotty and was sold to Barajas for $1,300
Tony was heavily into UKC conformation shows as you tell in his pictures of
Tony's Showtime which was taken at a show. and Tony's Raider 2 which was taken at a photo shoot.
Like I said earlier I DON"T believe Gotty himself was mixed but do believe that SOME of Gotty's offspring has been mixed.
Gotty looks like his dad Raider 2 which he is double bred from and he also resembles his Grandsire Tony's Showtime.
When Gotty is properly bred he throws CLONES of himself. My dog's father is a direct son of Juan Gotty. I posted several pictures of my dog on here before playing with the spring pole.
Its not impossible to believe that Gotty was NOT mixed. He is about the same height, length, weight even looks as the sires before him. He maybe slightly more muscular.
There are many GAME bred dogs that when bred will throw slightly bigger dogs than themselves. A prime example is Tudor's DIBO (his photo is in JR PIT Guy's avatar, DIBO a Bully before his time) He looks nothing like the little Feely dogs before him. Stratton described the Dibo bred dogs of having a "double jointed hock" (similar to the Bully dogs of today) What about those OLD Family Reds. Some of the old ones looked REAL big and Bully.
Below are pictures of a 5 generation ped starting with my dog, his sire, Gotty, Raider 2 Showtime which all look similar. My dog looks like his great grand sire Raider 2.

[renegadepit]

The pics did not come out in the order I wanted them to. My dog is the 2nd one followed by his sire, than Gotty, than Raider 2. The first one is Tony's Showtime which he should have been at the end. My dogs weight is currently 67lbs.

[bahamutt99]

When Gotty is properly bred he throws CLONES of himself.
Hopefully that doesn't include temperament. Someone here was nice enough to share a story with me about Gotty biting the hell out of some guy who came to look at his puppies. (The guy ended up buying 2 pups off him, too.) I that's true, that dog should be a cull, not a mass sperm donor.

[renegadepit]

Gotty is not a man biter.
Now Gottilines Monster????
He will take your arm off.
Heres a Monster pic

[renegadepit]

"One last thing, if he was so great in the "bully" community, how come you NEVER hear of any sibling of Gotti? I mean, if he was so wonderful, why didn't they do another breeding and where are his littermates?"


I hear plenty about his offspring. look no further than a dog called Monster.

As far as littermates the Breeding produced 2 other dogs, One named
True Blue.
The other was a Female named Sheboz who passed not long ago.
She was owned by Ablepaws Kennels
You could find her at
http://www.ablepaws.org/sheboz.html

Ablepaws also owned other dogs produced by Tony Moore that was from a
repeat breeding that produced Gotty.

[bahamutt99]

Is Monster a Gotty son, as was indicated earlier in this thread? Temperament is genetic, so that just lends support to the story about Gotty being a biter. Even if he never bit anybody, if he's producing man-biters, then that is just as good of a reason not to breed him, at least to my way of thinking.

The story as was told me:

"A guy named Raph went to go look at some pups of Gotti's but before he went for the pups they went out to Gotti's kennel. His owner (For some strange reason I can't think of his name right now.) Let Gotti out of the kennel loose and Raph went to pet his head and was bitten. It wasn't a nip either, he bit it and then shook resulting in three broken fingers. The worst part of the story is that Raph still bought two male pups"

[renegadepit]

Is Monster a Gotty son, as was indicated earlier in this thread? Temperament is genetic, so that just lends support to the story about Gotty being a biter. Even if he never bit anybody, if he's producing man-biters, then that is just as good of a reason not to breed him, at least to my way of thinking.

The story as was told me:

"A guy named Raph went to go look at some pups of Gotti's but before he went for the pups they went out to Gotti's kennel. His owner (For some strange reason I can't think of his name right now.) Let Gotti out of the kennel loose and Raph went to pet his head and was bitten. It wasn't a nip either, he bit it and then shook resulting in three broken fingers. The worst part of the story is that Raph still bought two male pups"
Gotty is not a man biter but friendly towards people. All the other offsprings of Gotty have been known to be friendly towards people. Monster has never bit anybody. My quote about Monster taking an arm off was a joke. I should have put a lol after that. I said that because its rumored that when you approach him when he kenneled he will bark at you and act aggressive. But hell, my dog barks at people when they knock on my door it may seem aggressive to them but once they come in he stays calm. Most dogs will bark when someone (other than the owner) approaches there kennel.

[bigdog2594]

Please, please, please don't say Gotti comes off of Ruffian stock. He is a garbage bred man-biter with hung papers. He by no means is ruffian stock. He may have some ruffian based dogs in his ped, but that is it. I have a PURE RUFFIAN female and if you seen her pedigree you would see the difference.

[MTNDOG]

Deleted..Tired of beating a dead horse with folks that know no better..

[Sid Finster]

Deleted..Tired of beating a dead horse with folks that know no better..
Are you sure that you are dealing with ignorance and not denial?

[NcPrisonGuard]

Whole thread ought to be deleted.. same stupid thing pops up about once every other month..


Deleted..Tired of beating a dead horse with folks that know no better..

[BoiBoi]

um to set the record straight ABK gave me all the info. i needed to know about gr. ch. blue bully. It was u other fools that decided to make this another bully bashing thread. gr. ch. blue bully IMO was worthy of being called a bulldog and worth talking about on this game-dog board, those other mutts u guys decided to talk about aren't worthy of being discussed on this board or any other for that matter, however they somehow seem to pop up all the f*cking time. Thanks for ruining a good thread about a good dog.
YIS
B

[MTNDOG]

I personaly think people should stop bashing everything..Whether it be bully pits, blue dogs, or game dogs..Most of the people bashing any of them have not been around any of them..Like Ive said a million times I don't own any bully pits and would'nt want to, but I have been around a whole lot and never seen a manbiter, or a monster that people on here would have you believe..They may be a different breed, but don't spread bs about something you know nothing about..My gfreind is a breeder of these dogs and she probably has a nicer setup and takes care of her dogs better than a high percentage of people bashing the bully pit..I use to think like the majority here, till I met her and been around her dogs..Also, I had a dog off that Blue Bully years ago and he was an alright dog..He was a great pet and decent performer..I did'nt know his pedigree till he was 3 years old and earned his right to be registered..At that time I was shocked to see how he was bred, but did'nt really care..I never bred him, but he lived a long life and was a good buddy..I run a good sized kennel now,and would be happy to show some of shit talkers that will say I have bullies or blue dogs what the real deal is..I say these things because I have been around these American Bullies for a few years now, and I really like there overall temperment..

[renegadepit]

[QUOTE=MTNDOG]I personaly think people should stop bashing everything..Whether it be bully pits, blue dogs, or game dogs..Most of the people bashing any of them have not been around any of them..Like Ive said a million times I don't own any bully pits and would'nt want to, but I have been around a whole lot and never seen a manbiter, or a monster that people on here would have you believe..They may be a different breed, but don't spread bs about something you know nothing about..QUOTE]

I agree!! Don't hate
My point was on lineage and and the resemblence of previous generations.