Modern Keep Part II

[COLDSTEEL APBT]

http://i12.tinypic.com/5y02ow5.jpg
http://i10.tinypic.com/63sgayr.jpg
http://i14.tinypic.com/4y9ylpi.jpg

This is the dog i'm working on now, were intering the 3rd week or fifteen day with out rest.
Question for you conditioners is by this time are all the right tucks, muscles, cuts there ? how many # is it preferable to lose a week/ a day ? I have another one I picked up today to start soon. I'll post picks of him before I start.

[COLDSTEEL APBT]

This how he looked before we started
http://i11.tinypic.com/2n1c6jb.jpg

[jaystreetsA4]

hows the dog bred? what registry you plan on showing him in? tht really dictates the extent of conditioning you need.:)

[Big Rod]

How is he bred?

[koening]

Well I think the dog is on the right track . Maybee he will need to loose another pound or two , and a little more workout to really strech all the muscles and tone them right. I pers think he looks good and he is on he's way. How much time do you have left nefore the show ? And yeah , btw how is he bread ?

[diggit]

you need to have ONE day of rest at least every 4th day of your workin him hard.

BTW people this is a UKC castillo.

[COLDSTEEL APBT]

actually he's dual registered Adba # 11120AP-45 and 96% Castillo and 4% Dreamweaver.;)

you need to have ONE day of rest at least every 4th day of your workin him hard.

BTW people this is a UKC castillo.

[miakoda]

I do agree that you have to rest the dog. In order to build up muscle tissue, you must break down the muscle fibers, and they must have a rest period to rebuild (although it is done round the clock).

Being a human athlete, much of the training and stuff I've gone through I apply to my dogs as the principles of the body apply to both.

I suggest you do some research & educate yourself on what exactly is happening within the dog's system (cardiovascular, pulmonary, musculoskeletal) before you put a dog into a "keep."

[oldschool]

"I suggest you do some research & educate yourself on what exactly is happening within the dog's system (cardiovascular, pulmonary, musculoskeletal) before you put a dog into a "keep." "

This is sooo true and important. Oldschool

[Searcy Jeff]

I do agree that you have to rest the dog. In order to build up muscle tissue, you must break down the muscle fibers, and they must have a rest period to rebuild (although it is done round the clock).

Being a human athlete, much of the training and stuff I've gone through I apply to my dogs as the principles of the body apply to both.

I suggest you do some research & educate yourself on what exactly is happening within the dog's system (cardiovascular, pulmonary, musculoskeletal) before you put a dog into a "keep."You said it best Mia.

Your dogs aren't machines. 15 days without rest isn't a good idea.

[Pipbull]

Would you mind sharing the daily routine for this keep? Also, what are you conditioning for? That will have a big impact on what you need to work on. Just from the looks of the dog, he looks kind of like my bully, and from experience with him, you need to be a lot more careful with conditioning than you would be able to do with a more standard dog. The barrel chest rather than a deep one will prevent the dog from taking deeper breaths. The legs positioned the way they are are going to keep the dog from being able to turn on a dime. And not being as "springy" will definately affect how easily he take take a fall chasing the flirtpole. Again, I'm not trying to bash, this is just experience I've had since my dog is kind of bully, too.

From the side pic, I'd say you need to start working the core a lot more. Looks like he's doing a lot of running (either by hand or chasing the flirtpole) and possibly pulling. You should probably do some tugging with him and add some swimming in place of extra flirtpole (because of not being able to turn as well.)

[COLDSTEEL APBT]

We flirtpole non-stop for 15-20min 2x a day. Sometimes 3x
Then in between flirtpole or sometime 30-45 min afterwards like around 5-6pm people start walking there dogs, so I let him chase dogs/people he runs about half an acre back and forth sometimes 10 to 20x . He gets as tired as the flirtpole sessions. Sometime my neighbors don't show so were really only doing 15-20 min pole action 2x a day for the most part and twice out of the week 3x - another reason he doesn't need rest...yet, but keep reading.
We started by handwalking for a week 15min,20,30,40,45,rest,rest and right into the first week of flirtpole.
I use two flirpoles the longest ones I can get with burlap or rope at the end. I got Hides from Boggie but there to heavy and he's got really quick (your right about the turning on a dime) he's very agile for he's size. I've also gotten better & faster. He rarely gets it before 15-20 min and if he does I take off time for stop of play and get the second pole which makes him drop the other one and off we go. I time every session. We also start on sand and go to grass and back to sand. I've gone thru 4 poles in less than a month. At the end when he's tongue curls up ( and a few min after) I let him get it and I'll tug at it and he wont let go for another 8-10 min breathing thru he's nose all the time. He's also gotten alot better at cooling himself down I let another dog join in and it was panting alot heavier and it's heartbeat was 280 while he was at a comfortable 220 and he had done more. Yes! I also read there heart beats every session that's why there hasnt been a rest day he has recovered better than the day before so far. The days he does 3x he get a rubdown and the next day is 2x only- It's been really hot and we work in the early morning and late afternoon He does get a rubdown every day with the hose after the work.

the keep i'm working this dog is the best one i've done I use to do alot of strenght conditioning before this one but this is my 1st time FREE Conditioning w/ no resitance.

I'm also an athlete brother i've boxed from 13-22yrs. I can no longer make my weight of 147 so no sparring offers thank you.

Here's what i'm feeding this dog:
All Week- 1 scoop of K9 Superfuel in water bucket after workout.
Mon-Wed
2 med Boiled Chicken Thighs w/ Garlic 3-5 cloves
3 pumps of Wild Alaskan Salmon Oil
1 tsp of Mineral & Vitamins "Seameal"
1 scoop of K9 Superfuel (Chemicals)
2 cups of Canidae
Some water to mix
Tue-Thur
1 Can of Tuna
3 pumps of Wild Alaskan Salmon Oil
1 tsp of Mineral & Vitamins "Seameal"
1 scoop of K9 Superfuel (Chemicals)
2 cups of Canidae
Some water to mix
Fri-Sun
Lean Red meat or Turkey Legs Boiled till the bones can be eaten w/ Garlic 3-5 cloves
3 pumps of Wild Alaskan Salmon Oil
1 tsp of Mineral & Vitamins "Seameal"
1 scoop of K9 Superfuel (Chemicals)
2 cups of Canidae
Some water to mix
Sat or any other day when Poop gets to soft
2-4 cups of Canidae
3 pumps of Wild Alaskan Salmon Oil
1 tsp of Mineral & Vitamins "Seameal"
1 scoop of K9 Superfuel (Chemicals)
Honey 1Tsp
Some water to mix

When there's none of the above available I go t0 Egg noodles w/ dry food, vit-min, and some veggies parsnip or yams.
When we work 3x a day I feed twice no chemicals just Vit-Min "Seameal" and the second feed is only kibble.

[Texasbulldogs]

How your dog looks now and his weight…is his “chain weight” and even on the heavy side of that. There seems to be no rhyme or reason for you feeding what you are. The dog isn’t doing anything beyond basic daily exercise…he’s continuing to blow hot because of the gut fat, his not empty, and the excess you’re feeding. From what you describe you’re doing-kibble is all he needs. You think he needs “more” just give the salmon oil. All you’re currently doing is throwing the balance out of whack with your current feedings. On the workout part…if you can work your dog more than once a day-YOU’RE NOT WORKING HIM!<O:p</O:p

[maximusflys]

His heart rate doesn't determine if he needs a day off. He needs a day off PERIOD!!!! His heart rate doesn't help muscle recovery a single bit and if you knew anything working yourself out you would know there is a need for recovery days.


Also feeding cooked bones will eventually kill your dog, why spend the time coooking it when you lose alot of nutrition cooking it. Feed it raw.

You will also need to vary workouts, doing only one or two exercises over and over again is doing no good. Like I said if you knew anything about working out it is very easy to plateau. You need variety.

[coolhandjean]

around 5-6pm people start walking there dogs, so I let him chase dogs/people he runs about half an acre back and forth sometimes 10 to 20x .

Just wanted to clearify. There is a fence or something between the people/dogs and him, correct? or what exactly do you mean here?

[COLDSTEEL APBT]

there's a fence :) Him chasing dogs and people wouldn't had last long without a fence right.

around 5-6pm people start walking there dogs, so I let him chase dogs/people he runs about half an acre back and forth sometimes 10 to 20x .

Just wanted to clearify. There is a fence or something between the people/dogs and him, correct? or what exactly do you mean here?

[coolhandjean]

there's a fence :) Him chasing dogs and people wouldn't had last long without a fence right.I figured, but I wanted to double check. lol.

[COLDSTEEL APBT]

I don't think were doing enough to have to rest. He lives indoors so besides coming out to work & potty he rests all day/all night up to 16 hours. He's a big dog 76 lbs so he might look like he hasn't lost weight but were at 70-71# this week. I think we have come to a platue. I will have to incorporate handwalking everyday besides what we do now. I'm sure then he'll need rest.

I give the red meat lightly boiled. This dog doesn't take good to raw food. He'll eat it but have wet poop for a few days. Which I woulnd't want to happen right now.

Everything you guys has been helpfull thanks and keep it coming.

His heart rate doesn't determine if he needs a day off. He needs a day off PERIOD!!!! His heart rate doesn't help muscle recovery a single bit and if you knew anything working yourself out you would know there is a need for recovery days.


Also feeding cooked bones will eventually kill your dog, why spend the time coooking it when you lose alot of nutrition cooking it. Feed it raw.

You will also need to vary workouts, doing only one or two exercises over and over again is doing no good. Like I said if you knew anything about working out it is very easy to plateau. You need variety.

[NCPatchwork]

You are on the right track....rest is important...you aren't giving the muscles any down time...so, they are just breaking themselves back down...

[diggit]

i agree... lookin at his muscle there no definition at all.. and walking/flirtpole is not a keep... the dog needs more then that.

the dog is bred for UKC conformation for over 30 years its a UKC dog.. no ifs ands or butts about it.

these dogs are ment yo go into the ring on chain weight... makin this dog have a conditioned look will look strange.... but like you said your training for streghth.

ever heard of weight pulling? that adds streghth like crazy... and running on a mill.

[BoogiemanBlood]

Then in between flirtpole or sometime 30-45 min afterwards like around 5-6pm people start walking there dogs, so I let him chase dogs/people he runs about half an acre back and forth
what is that supposed to mean?

[koening]

what is that supposed to mean?I wanted to ask that as well.

[FearlessKnight]

what is that supposed to mean? It was stated that there was a fence up..but it does odd that the dog would still be able to chase them.....through the fence I guess...:confused: Who knows...

[coolhandjean]

It was stated that there was a fence up..but it does odd that the dog would still be able to chase them.....through the fence I guess...:confused: Who knows...the way I picture it is this dog is running back and forward up this fence barking at the passerbyers.

[BoogiemanBlood]

It was stated that there was a fence up..but it does odd that the dog would still be able to chase them.....through the fence I guess...:confused: Who knows...ah....i see

[FearlessKnight]

the way I picture it is this dog is running back and forward up this fence barking at the passerbyers. ya....not sure about that!

[Pipbull]

the way I picture it is this dog is running back and forward up this fence barking at the passerbyers.
Either way, it's sure to give the breed a good image......

Sarcasm aside, your dog is not really built to be super conditioned or "on a keep." Like I said before, what is the keep for? That is the question on what exercise you should be doing, whether it's weight pull, hunting, agility, or a conformation show.

The first thing you need to do is less flirtpole and more handwalking. The time isn't as important as the distance. If you live in a rural area, make yourself a 20-30 ft rope leash and take him on a walk in a deserted area. As long as your dog isn't velcro-ed to your side, he should be walking about 2-3 miles for every 1 that you walk (in a straight line, don't follow the dog). Play a lot of fetch with him, too. There's a guy on another board that uses a football field for fetch, that way he can use the field to roughly measure how many yards the dog is running back and forth. All this walking is not only going to build a good bond between you and the dog, it's also going to help burn off excess weight. As far as feeding, you need to rethink that diet completely. Either stick to Canidae with a couple extra things (salmon oil or egg every now and then) or research and switch to a raw diet.

Once you've worked off the excess weight from the walking, then you can start on the flirtpole. If you start right with the flirt, that can put a lot of stress on the dog, especially his joints and tendons on his legs. Don't want to tear an ACL. So at this point, keep with the walking, but add the flirt to it. And build a strong flirtpole so that once he catches it, you can tug with him. I use horse lead rope strung through the grey PVC pipe with burlap at the end.

Depending on what you are working towards, you can also add dragging weight on the walks, just cut down to a shorter leash. If millwork is an option, you could give that a try, too. But each dog is different, so you want to find what works for him and for the love of God, do NOT overwork the dog. If this is it's first time conditioning at all, it does not need to be on a "keep," which I interpret as a high intesity conditioning program for a set amount of time to achieve a body designed specifically for an event (which would obviously occur at the end of the time frame you have mapped out.)

So, say you have a weightpull coming up in 6 months. Leading up to that time, you want to start training with your dog and start working on his conditioning. Then, depending on your keep, usually about 6-8 weeks, you start it and really kick it up a notch. That way, the keep should end about a day or 2 before the weightpull, to give your dog time to rest and he should be at a good form for the pull.

Also, I cannot stress enough the importance of the cooldown period after each workout. Rubdown after each walk and flirtpole session, not to mention a day of rest every 3 or 4 days. I know I'm not the most experienced member on this board by far, so I'd love others to input on what I said if I have anything wrong, this is just what I've learned so far. ;)

[texas_dogger]

First off even if there is a fence up no responsible owner of this breed should let there dog behave in this manner its what gives our breed a bad name with the impressionable and weak minded. Now that thats off my chest lets start with the keep at hand.
First off in my opinion 70% of a keep of any kind is not what you use to condition your dog with its what you put in them (a.k.a) the diet. after you have figured that out its what you condition them on. Such as cat mill, treadmill, flirt pole, road work so one and so on.
There are so many deciding factors in any keep...just because it work for my dogs does'nt mean it will work for your dogs and vise versa. All I can say is good luck to you and yours.

[Pipbull]

First off in my opinion 70% of a keep of any kind is not what you use to condition your dog with its what you put in them (a.k.a) the diet. after you have figured that out its what you condition them on. Such as cat mill, treadmill, flirt pole, road work so one and so on.
There are so many deciding factors in any keep...just because it work for my dogs does'nt mean it will work for your dogs and vise versa. All I can say is good luck to you and yours.
How much should a diet change between normal activity and a keep? I'm sure it varies from each technique, but I wouldn't change too much diet wise other than increasing amounts of protein and fat by adding supplements to the kibble. It'd probably be easier with raw, since you can mess with the parts easier than you can with kibble.

The way I figure it, the diet should have been solved way before you start working a dog. Then it's just fine tuning from there.

[texas_dogger]

How much should a diet change between normal activity and a keep? I'm sure it varies from each technique, but I wouldn't change too much diet wise other than increasing amounts of protein and fat by adding supplements to the kibble. It'd probably be easier with raw, since you can mess with the parts easier than you can with kibble.

The way I figure it, the diet should have been solved way before you start working a dog. Then it's just fine tuning from there.

You are correct that the diet should have been solved way before you start a keep. However IMO many people change their feed when a dog is in a keep, and since I dont know what or how they feed their dog I thought I would put that in there. I dont but if you did feed a dog ol roy while it was in a keep of any sort I personally dont think it would reach anywhere the same physical or mental state as if you did a raw diet program. I do not mean to offend anybody with my beliefs. IMO with feed is what you put in is what you get out. Also IMO a couple of the best tools you can use are a catmill, and good old fasionedroad work.

[Pipbull]

I'm right there with you about roadwork, it does wonders for dog and handler. Newbie question, though. What's a catmill? Is it the same thing as a jenni?

[texas_dogger]

Yes it is the same thing. I will not be responding to any other posts or messages about this subject. Thank you

[Marty]

I asked that this post be made...

Keeps and conditioning dogs goes hand in hand with dog fighting as far as the government agencies are concerned, so I would suggest that posts like these are not allowed to happen. We need to be careful what we are asking in these times as anything can be taken out of context and used against APBT owners.
Thread Closed.

And another one bites the dust, Thread Closed.

This is the last one of this nature, do not start another one!

Last warning by me.