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View Full Version : Anyone know about Heart Murmurs in pups??




Cakezz44
07-31-2007, 01:04 PM
Hi everyone, I am new to this site and looking for some answers. This is one of the best pit discussion boards ive seen on the net so i thought it would be the perfect place to ask.

I have a new puppy which I bought last week. I had no intention of buying this dog (as my other dog is red & blue) but I felt bad for it... The breeder had told me the dog was almost 4 months old, which I doubted... The puppy weighs 9 lbs and you can see its little hips sticking out and its ribs... not malnourished, but thin.... My other dog was about 30 lbs atleast when he was 16 weeks... Anyway, He has papers and is registered and I am upset because the vet told me this morning that he has a heart murmur, and on the scale of 0-6 his is a 3. Has anyone ever had this happen with one of their pups? Also, I know it is not recommended to breed him, but is that true even if it clears up? Could his lack of weight have something to do with the murmur? I love this little dog now and couldnt imagine giving him back, but now the breeder doesnt want to take any responsibilty... Also, is their any meication to treat this? Thanks!




Michele
07-31-2007, 01:11 PM
Did you ask your vet what can be done for this?

BoogiemanBlood
07-31-2007, 01:30 PM
Hi everyone, I am new to this site and looking for some answers. This is one of the best pit discussion boards ive seen on the net so i thought it would be the perfect place to ask.

I have a new puppy which I bought last week. I had no intention of buying this dog (as my other dog is red & blue) but I felt bad for it... The breeder had told me the dog was almost 4 months old, which I doubted... The puppy weighs 9 lbs and you can see its little hips sticking out and its ribs... not malnourished, but thin.... My other dog was about 30 lbs atleast when he was 16 weeks... Anyway, He has papers and is registered and I am upset because the vet told me this morning that he has a heart murmur, and on the scale of 0-6 his is a 3. Has anyone ever had this happen with one of their pups? Also, I know it is not recommended to breed him, but is that true even if it clears up? Could his lack of weight have something to do with the murmur? I love this little dog now and couldnt imagine giving him back, but now the breeder doesnt want to take any responsibilty... Also, is their any meication to treat this? Thanks!uh call a vet and learn a lesson. DON'T DEAL WITH BYB SCUM. had you went to a reputable breeder for a dog, they would stand behind what they sell. if you really went to the vet why are you on here asking more questions about the heart murmur. call the vet back and say, "hey i wanted to ask....."

also, wtf are you talking about breeding it for already? it's 4 months old. why does the color of your other dog matter? you sound as though you're heading down the exact same path as the asshat you bought the dog from. do you really wanna be in the same category as them now that you've been hosed?

***edited for languag***

miakoda
07-31-2007, 01:40 PM
It's not uncommon for some pups to have a mild murmur (grade 1) when young. However, most of these pups will be murmur free by 3-4 months of age.

Considering that the grade/level murmur your dog has is that high, I would bet that there is some abnormality to the heart and it's vessels. Grade 3 murmurs don't exist for no reason.

If you truly want this dog as a companion and pet, go back to the vet and have them do an ultrasound at best and x-ray at worst. Find out WHY the murmur exists. Some murmurs are symptoms of such serious defects that it's best to euthanize the dog painlessly than to watch it die a slow, suffocating death from heart failure.

Although I don't agree with how BB worded his post, I do agree that breeding this dog should not even be on your list of things to consider. This dog is NOT breed worthy regardless of if he had the best pedigree in the world. A ped is nothing if the dog does not earn it's place in it.

And I have no idea what a "red and blue" dog is.:confused:

BoogiemanBlood
07-31-2007, 01:45 PM
Although I don't agree with how BB worded his post, I do agree that breeding this dog should not even be on your list of things to consider. This dog is NOT breed worthy regardless of if he had the best pedigree in the world. A ped is nothing if the dog does not earn it's place in it.

And I have no idea what a "red and blue" dog is.:confused:sorry i dropped the "F" bomb in there. :( it was only once....lol :o

Cakezz44
07-31-2007, 01:51 PM
It's not uncommon for some pups to have a mild murmur (grade 1) when young. However, most of these pups will be murmur free by 3-4 months of age.

Considering that the grade/level murmur your dog has is that high, I would bet that there is some abnormality to the heart and it's vessels. Grade 3 murmurs don't exist for no reason.

If you truly want this dog as a companion and pet, go back to the vet and have them do an ultrasound at best and x-ray at worst. Find out WHY the murmur exists. Some murmurs are symptoms of such serious defects that it's best to euthanize the dog painlessly than to watch it die a slow, suffocating death from heart failure.

Although I don't agree with how BB worded his post, I do agree that breeding this dog should not even be on your list of things to consider. This dog is NOT breed worthy regardless of if he had the best pedigree in the world. A ped is nothing if the dog does not earn it's place in it.

And I have no idea what a "red and blue" dog is.:confused:
Thanks for your reply... and my dog is said to be a red bluie... one parent was blue the other 1/2 blue 1/2 red.... Im not a breeder so I dont know the specifics, i just love the breed. The vet just called him a red blie...i dunno...

Cakezz44
07-31-2007, 02:00 PM
uh call a vet and learn a lesson. DON'T DEAL WITH BYB SCUM. had you went to a reputable breeder for a dog, they would stand behind what they sell. if you really went to the vet why are you on here asking more questions about the heart murmur. call the vet back and say, "hey i wanted to ask....."

also, wtf are you talking about breeding it for already? it's 4 months old. why does the color of your other dog matter? you sound as though you're heading down the exact same path as the asshat you bought the dog from. do you really wanna be in the same category as them now that you've been hosed?

***edited for languag***first of all, if you paid attention to what I originally wrote, you would have read that I DID NOT WANT THIS DOG. I took it in because it was not being taken care of properly. #2, who said anything about breeding a dog that was 4 months????? duh.... it was a general question about it being true not to breed a dog with a heart murmur.... #3 the color of my other dog is just what I PREFER. I AM NOT A BREEDER... I just have the dogs because I love the breed.... the visit to the vet wasnt even for the pup, it was just something the vet had noticed while we were there. and whats wrong with being on here to find out more information?

edited for language,
please take any personal issues to p.m.'s.

ColbyDogs
07-31-2007, 02:00 PM
Mikoda is correct, my last dog did have a murmur that ended up working itself out within 4-6 months. So it is possible but you should be consulting with a vet instead of a pit bull message board.

And about breeding this pup....why ? We have enough people breeding these dogs and we really do not need any others. If your dog or dogs have not Championed in anything then you really should not even be considering this.

So bring that pup to the vet again for his heart and while your there have the doc snip his sack.

ColbyDogs
07-31-2007, 02:09 PM
Cakezz44 , You did make a reference to breeding by asking if it was true or not wether the pup would / could with hert murmur. Alot of folks here frown on breeding so I hope you can understand where people are coming from. Even if you never had / have any intention of breeding you did make a mistake or mentioning it.

Hope that help clear things up for ya.

Cakezz44
07-31-2007, 02:12 PM
Cakezz44 , You did make a reference to breeding by asking if it was true or not wether the pup would / could with hert murmur. Alot of folks here frown on breeding so I hope you can understand where people are coming from. Even if you never had / have any intention of breeding you did make a mistake or mentioning it.

Hope that help clear things up for ya.
Thanks for letting me know I shouldnt say the "B" word..... but yes i do understand.

Cakezz44
07-31-2007, 02:16 PM
Did you ask your vet what can be done for this?
Yes, but I was at the vet for my other dog, not the pup. The pup was just along when we dropped the other off. Since I know the vet pretty well, he took a listen to the pup and felt around and came to that conclusion. He didnt really have time to explain too much... Now we go back next week for him.:(

Michele
07-31-2007, 02:18 PM
Yes, but I was at the vet for my other dog, not the pup. The pup was just along when we dropped the other off. Since I know the vet pretty well, he took a listen to the pup and felt around and came to that conclusion. He didnt really have time to explain too much... Now we go back next week for him.:(
good luck and I'd love to see pictures of the pup....:)

BoogiemanBlood
07-31-2007, 02:19 PM
Yes, but I was at the vet for my other dog, not the pup. The pup was just along when we dropped the other off. Since I know the vet pretty well, he took a listen to the pup and felt around and came to that conclusion. He didnt really have time to explain too much... Now we go back next week for him.:(ok about the pup.....take miakoda's advice. she is a vet tech and knows her shit. if it is serious even though you're gonna come out on the losing end of the stick euth the dog. it doesn't deserve to die a horrible death.

miakoda
07-31-2007, 02:22 PM
Everyone--keep on topic!

Cake, your best bet is to work with your vet on this issue. Heart murmurs are caused by numerous different reasons and treatment varies on the cause. So find out what is causing the murmur, then discuss a treatment plan with your vet. If you don't want this dog nor want to deal with the issue, then my best advice is to have the dog painlessly euthanized by the vet.

Second, as for the breeding issue, stick around the site and read. This is a great site for educating oneself on topics ranging from monthly healthcare for dogs to nutrition to basic vet care to APBT & other "pit bulls" history to specific bloodlines and their traits. Being uneducated is nothing to be ashamed of as we were ALL uneducated at some point. But if one refuses to educate himself/herself, then there is a problem.

So welcome to the site and read all you can (I know I do :) ).

ColbyDogs
07-31-2007, 02:23 PM
Now we go back next week for him.:(
Just try and limit the amount of excitement that the pup gets. Just have him go easy til you get to the vet. I know its easier said than done but try anyways.

Good luck.

Cakezz44
07-31-2007, 02:41 PM
Everyone--keep on topic!

Cake, your best bet is to work with your vet on this issue. Heart murmurs are caused by numerous different reasons and treatment varies on the cause. So find out what is causing the murmur, then discuss a treatment plan with your vet. If you don't want this dog nor want to deal with the issue, then my best advice is to have the dog painlessly euthanized by the vet.

Second, as for the breeding issue, stick around the site and read. This is a great site for educating oneself on topics ranging from monthly healthcare for dogs to nutrition to basic vet care to APBT & other "pit bulls" history to specific bloodlines and their traits. Being uneducated is nothing to be ashamed of as we were ALL uneducated at some point. But if one refuses to educate himself/herself, then there is a problem.

So welcome to the site and read all you can (I know I do :) ).
Thanks a lot

Patch O' Pits
07-31-2007, 04:16 PM
I'm sorry to hear you pup has a heart murmur. I doubt the parents were health tested before breeding and they may also have them as well as other pups in the litter though sometimes a murmur will just pop up randomly. Yes, as you were told some do go away but that depends on the type it is. to find out more if you are seriously concerned and care about the pup you need to take him to a cardiologist and have testing done. They will advise you not only on exercise and possible diet restrictions but also may or may not prescribe meds. Your vet should have explained thois all to you already. Also what tests did your vet do to give you the grade of the mumur? If he only just listened to the heart that is not enough to give you that info IMO

Google OFA and look at the info on the site about murmurs and cardiac testing


Thanks for your reply... and my dog is said to be a red bluie... one parent was blue the other 1/2 blue 1/2 red.... Im not a breeder so I dont know the specifics, i just love the breed. The vet just called him a red blie...i dunno...

Ok I'm going to help you out here. The sire being a specific color and the dam being another does not have anything to do with what your pup is those are just colors not bloodlines or types of APBTs. Color is just that COLOR and nothing more. It doesn't make the dog any better or worse.

Whether your dogs condition clears up or not the pup should not be bred. Please get him fixed asap

bahamutt99
07-31-2007, 04:42 PM
Even if the murmur stays with him, he will probably be just fine. Keep him lean and active, on a good feed and regular exercise program. Also, take care of his teeth, because somehow nasty teeth are linked to heart problems. Don't throw him out just yet. A dog can still live normally with a mild heart murmur. :)

BoogiemanBlood
07-31-2007, 04:53 PM
first of all, if you paid attention to what I originally wrote, you would have read that I DID NOT WANT THIS DOG. I took it in because it was not being taken care of properly. #2, who said anything about breeding a dog that was 4 months????? duh.... it was a general question about it being true not to breed a dog with a heart murmur.... #3 the color of my other dog is just what I PREFER. I AM NOT A BREEDER... I just have the dogs because I love the breed.... the visit to the vet wasnt even for the pup, it was just something the vet had noticed while we were there. and whats wrong with being on here to find out more information? then why ask about if it can be bred? seems like you're backtracking now.

to whomever deleted my post it was not off topic. the OP clearly states he's asking about the murmur and then asks if it can still be bred. censorship is not cool.

The Watcher
07-31-2007, 05:04 PM
i agree BB. tell it like it is, not how they want to hear it.then why ask about if it can be bred? seems like you're backtracking now.

to whomever deleted my post it was not off topic. the OP clearly states he's asking about the murmur and then asks if it can still be bred. censorship is not cool.

The Watcher
07-31-2007, 05:25 PM
im just sayin' BB. dont worry bout who they call "mr dogman"
your dogs are better off then some others I can mention.
im just sayin' you gotta live ur life...
understand ppl are going to hate on you regardless. get that out your head..... the fantasy world where ppl aint hatin on you.
you gotta be grateful for haters.
you need haters.
what the **** you complaining about?
what the **** you think a haters job is?
to mother****in hate!
so let them them suckers do their job.
what you complaining about?
ladies: if you got 15 ladies hating on you need to try and figure out how to get to 16 for the fall gets here.
fellas: if you got 20 you need 40.

*if there is any haters on game-dog that caint find no-one to hate on please feel free to hate on me.....

50.
YEAH it gets me in trouble cuz i'm not mr dogman though. i haven't earned enough kiss ass points i guess. you respond to the facts they present in their own post then get deleted cuz somebody has a personal beef with me. NOT COOL! NOT COOL AT ALL!

BoogiemanBlood
07-31-2007, 05:34 PM
im just sayin' BB. dont worry bout who they call "mr dogman"
your dogs are better off then some others I can mention.
im just sayin' you gotta live ur life...
understand ppl are going to hate on you regardless. get that out your head..... the fantasy world where ppl aint hatin on you.
you gotta be grateful for haters.
you need haters.
what the **** you complaining about?
what the **** you think a haters job is?
to mother****in hate!
so let them them suckers do their job.
what you complaining about?
ladies: if you got 15 ladies hating on you need to try and figure out how to get to 16 for the fall gets here.
fellas: if you got 20 you need 40.

*if there is any haters on game-dog that caint find no-one to hate on please feel free to hate on me.....

50.LMFAO! like i always say.....i love your style! i know you know the real dealio, and believe me that means alot. trust me i ain't ever lost a wink of sleep over haters. it's just undeserved some of the time (like in this cas) and sometimes i just can't help but respond to it ya know. ;)

Suki
07-31-2007, 05:57 PM
The breeder hereby wants NO responsibility now, for this pup=RED flag, imo. :mad:
second, i would recall your vet and ask for his/her professional opinion on how to accurately deal with a heart murmur that's been ranked a 3. If he ranked it, he obviously is basing his opinion on what he heard. Were any other diagonstic tests done, or was the pup just listened to? Grade 3 is considered moderate, and oftentimes shows no symptoms, until, yes, detected during a routine check up. your dog can potentially live with this without it worsening, as only about 10% of cases, of this level tend to worsen, and thereby become life threatening.
for now, keep his exercise moderate and less during the really warm months. also, keep his weight at a healthy amount, so as to not add furthur stress to his heart.
You can inquire about using beta blockers, if its progression worsens.
some additional info below:

best of luck with him, and welcome to game-dog!:)
<HR color=#fafae6 SIZE=1><CENTER><TABLE cellPadding=6 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.bregorreyglens.co.uk/2003/button3_greenbullet.gif DISEASE PROGRESSION

</TD></TR><TR><TD>In the majority of cases, development of the defect does not usually progress beyond puppyhood i.e. the grading of the heart murmur would be unchanged from the age of 1 to 2 years throughout the rest of the dog's life. However, in a small number of dogs (estimated to be about 10% of those affected) the defect appears to get progressively worse over the years. This certainly gives weight to the argument that annual auscultation should be considered in those breeds known to be affected by AS.

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom align=right>


<HR color=#fafae6 SIZE=1></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER><CENTER><TABLE cellPadding=6 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.bregorreyglens.co.uk/2003/button3_greenbullet.gif SYMPTOMS

</TD></TR><TR><TD>This hereditary heart defect may be mild and not affect the quality or longevity of the dog's life, or it may be severe and result in symptoms, such as exercise intolerance and syncope (fainting). It is also one of the causes of sudden death.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>Symptoms can occur [a] as a direct result of the defect or secondary to left ventricular hypertrophy.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>[a] A severe defect can significantly compromise the outflow of oxygenated blood from the heart to the brain and other vital organs.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>[b] Over time, the walls of the left ventricle may become "hypertrophied" (thickened). This is the left ventricle "compensating" for its increased workload. If there is excessive hypertrophy, dogs can then develop abnormal heart rhythms; these VPCs (ventricular premature contractions) can compromise the delivery of oxygenated blood from the left ventricle through the aortic valve and into the aorta.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>[b]Syncope (fainting) occurs when there is a lack of oxygen to the brain.
If the stenosis (narrowing) is severe, this can result in significantly restricted outflow of oxygenated blood from the heart and, therefore, decreased oxygen supply to the brain.
VPCs are abnormal heart rhythms, which can be initiated by stress or exertion, whereby the left ventricle contracts too early i.e. before it has filled properly. This can also result in restricted outflow and decreased oxygen supply to the brain.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>Sudden death can occur after a "run" of VPCs, which then cause the heart to go into a state of ventricular tachycardia. Instead of pumping normally, the left ventricle pumps too quickly and is therefore unable to effectively deliver oxygenated blood into the aorta, and to the brain and other vital organs, resulting in collapse and death.

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom align=right>


<HR color=#fafae6 SIZE=1></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER><CENTER><TABLE cellPadding=6 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.bregorreyglens.co.uk/2003/button3_greenbullet.gif TREATMENT OPTIONS

</TD></TR><TR><TD>General veterinary advice to the owners of dogs with AS

</TD></TR><TR><TD> ~ Avoid strenuous exercise for the dog, especially in hot weather.
~ Do not allow the dog to become overweight.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>These are sensible precautions, which avoid putting excessive strain on the dog’s heart.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>Medication

</TD></TR><TR><TD>Beta-blockers may be prescribed for the following:

</TD></TR><TR><TD> ~ Dogs with severe aortic stenosis.
~ Dogs with evidence of left ventricular hypertrophy.
~ Dogs with evidence of VPCs.

</TD></TR><TR><TD>Beta-blockers help to improve exercise tolerance, reduce cardiac (heart) workload and prevent abnormal heart rhythms.

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom align=right>


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>