Some bulldogge doubts...

[Highbloodbulldog]

How can someone really believe that a dog like this is the Old Bulldog?
http://members.lycos.nl/oldeenglishbulldogge/hpbimg/IMAG0025.jpg

And what a hell is "renascence bulldogge"? Is some like that useless (and very very ugly) "olde bulldogge"?

I've been notice by some self called breeder about that "renascence bulldogge"...

Thanks for all.

[screamin'eagle]

And what a hell is "renascence bulldogge"? Is some like that useless (and very very ugly) "olde bulldogge"?

I've been notice by some self called breeder about that "renascence bulldogge"...

Thanks for all.There was a thread on this forum back in May that dealt briefly with the renascence bulldog... http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21844&highlight=renascence If you want to answer that question google the term and you'll find many breeders with websites, and lots of info. They are like you said breeding to attempt (in their eyes) to restore the original bulldog of old. I don't know about that, but they do keep thier dogs in a tight circle of owners now, and are apparently trying to improve what they think is the real bulldog responsibly.

[Highbloodbulldog]

There was a thread on this forum back in May that dealt briefly with the renascence bulldog... http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21844&highlight=renascence If you want to answer that question google the term and you'll find many breeders with websites, and lots of info. They are like you said breeding to attempt (in their eyes) to restore the original bulldog of old. I don't know about that, but they do keep thier dogs in a tight circle of owners now, and are apparently trying to improve what they think is the real bulldog responsibly.
I see that it's only the same mistaked thing as the "olde bulldogge"... I found nothing but really wrong informations in these "breeders'" sites... including some english bulldog development photos as "working old bulldog"...

[miakoda]

As an owner of an Olde English Bulldogge, I am partial to the breed (despite all my complaining :rolleyes: ). Are they the old pit dogs? Nope. But I think they are a helluva lot better than the modern day [English] Bulldog. And the resurgance in the dogs is coming from breeders who are trying to take the Bulldog back to what it used to be and put an end to all the genetic issues the modern day Bulldog has.

Our OEB came from working farm stock. He's not as athletic as the APBTs due to his being brachiocephalic dog (only slightly though) and large body size. However, he goes for 2 mile walk/jogs and is our top springpole and flirtpole maniac. He outlasts all of our APBTs mostly due to his obsessive/compulsive issues with those toys. He has no problem sprinting around the yard. And his drive his amazing. So if I had to choose, I would choose my OEB over any [English] Bulldog any day.

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/1/6/2/1/chipper.jpg

[chloesredboy]

As an owner of an Olde English Bulldogge, I am partial to the breed (despite all my complaining :rolleyes: ). Are they the old pit dogs? Nope. But I think they are a helluva lot better than the modern day [English] Bulldog. And the resurgance in the dogs is coming from breeders who are trying to take the Bulldog back to what it used to be and put an end to all the genetic issues the modern day Bulldog has.

Our OEB came from working farm stock. He's not as athletic as the APBTs due to his being brachiocephalic dog (only slightly though) and large body size. However, he goes for 2 mile walk/jogs and is our top springpole and flirtpole maniac. He outlasts all of our APBTs mostly due to his obsessive/compulsive issues with those toys. He has no problem sprinting around the yard. And his drive his amazing. So if I had to choose, I would choose my OEB over any [English] Bulldog any day.

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/1/6/2/1/chipper.jpgby modern day bulldog are reffering to the squat little pug mixes that are now being called OEB?They are mixed with pugs arent thay?LOL,I try to learn about all these bulldogs ,but ,it seeems like a new "type" of bulldog is popping up everyday! I like your dog,Is that what OEB's are supposed to look like?

[Highbloodbulldog]

As an owner of an Olde English Bulldogge, I am partial to the breed (despite all my complaining :rolleyes: ). Are they the old pit dogs? Nope. But I think they are a helluva lot better than the modern day [English] Bulldog. And the resurgance in the dogs is coming from breeders who are trying to take the Bulldog back to what it used to be and put an end to all the genetic issues the modern day Bulldog has.

Our OEB came from working farm stock. He's not as athletic as the APBTs due to his being brachiocephalic dog (only slightly though) and large body size. However, he goes for 2 mile walk/jogs and is our top springpole and flirtpole maniac. He outlasts all of our APBTs mostly due to his obsessive/compulsive issues with those toys. He has no problem sprinting around the yard. And his drive his amazing. So if I had to choose, I would choose my OEB over any [English] Bulldog any day.


This is a Thomas Rowlandson's (1756-1827) painting called "The Bull Bait" with the typical bulldog used in arenas.

http://www.highbloodbulldogs.bravehost.com/baitingsm.jpg



This is another old picture that shows a bulldog bitch fighting against a bull in a farm.

http://www.highbloodbulldogs.bravehost.com/bulldog1.jpg

Too different of many trying to recreations as ''Olde Bulldogges'' in my point of view... almost the modern fighting bulldog (American Pit Bull)...
I think if they are trying to REALLY recreate a supposed instict breed, they need to test their results in the arena, and I saw with my own eyes that an "olde bulldogge" even can handle with a hog...

[miakoda]

by modern day bulldog are reffering to the squat little pug mixes that are now being called OEB?To my knowledge, the OEB's, like mine pictured above, are not squat little pug mixes. That dog is taller than the vast majority of my APBTs and is the same heighth as the tallest ones. He's about 80-85lbs.

Highblood, I'm not going to argue whether or not the APBT was the exact bulldog of yesteryears because the name says is all..."American." I have no doubt that the bulldog of yesteryears was a predecessor to the APBT of today, however it was also the predecessor to ALL the bulldog breeds in a sense. The APBT was bred as a pit dog. The bulldog of yesteryears was a bull baiting dog until it was outlawed...then the breeding practices changed in order to revolutionize the dog as a pit dog vs. other dogs. IMO it's kind of like the AST is to the APBT....same dog yet completely different due to different standards regarding breeding.

And nowhere did it say that they are trying to turn the OEBs or ABs into APBTs.

I have a feeling you'd have a lot of fun on an American Bulldog forum bashing their "made up wanna-be dogs."

As for our OEB, he's a pet. That's my version of a pet.

I also want to add that while I love the historical pictures, I have just as many showing versions of the bulldog that look more like the modern day OEB and American Bulldogs. There were many varieties of bulldogs back then. Do I have a problem with some of these new breeders trying to recreate a historical breed for no reason other than money? You bet I do. But if they want to work those dogs in different venues specific to the bulldog breeds, then have at it.

[Highbloodbulldog]

To my knowledge, the OEB's, like mine pictured above, are not squat little pug mixes. That dog is taller than the vast majority of my APBTs and is the same heighth as the tallest ones. He's about 80-85lbs.

Highblood, I'm not going to argue whether or not the APBT was the exact bulldog of yesteryears because the name says is all..."American." I have no doubt that the bulldog of yesteryears was a predecessor to the APBT of today, however it was also the predecessor to ALL the bulldog breeds in a sense. The APBT was bred as a pit dog. The bulldog of yesteryears was a bull baiting dog until it was outlawed...then the breeding practices changed in order to revolutionize the dog as a pit dog vs. other dogs. IMO it's kind of like the AST is to the APBT....same dog yet completely different due to different standards regarding breeding.

And nowhere did it say that they are trying to turn the OEBs or ABs into APBTs.

I have a feeling you'd have a lot of fun on an American Bulldog forum bashing their "made up wanna-be dogs."

As for our OEB, he's a pet. That's my version of a pet.

I also want to add that while I love the historical pictures, I have just as many showing versions of the bulldog that look more like the modern day OEB and American Bulldogs. There were many varieties of bulldogs back then. Do I have a problem with some of these new breeders trying to recreate a historical breed for no reason other than money? You bet I do. But if they want to work those dogs in different venues specific to the bulldog breeds, then have at it.I see... and agree with you, my point is that some self called "breeders" are selling the Olde Bulldogge and other bully breeds as the ancient baiting dog... and this is totally wrong.
I didn't told that they are trying to turn these bullies to a Pit Bull.

You said a thing very important now, I don't know how is the American Staffordshire breeding in USA, but in Southern Brazil, they have no difference, it's just a registration question. Mostly, heavyweights dogs are registered as AST and the others as APBT... but in the pit... no difference at all. My heavyweight 4xW is an AST registered but he has mostly Colby/Yellow blood... he ended the career of two recognized and great match dogs here...

[chloesredboy]

To my knowledge, the OEB's, like mine pictured above, are not squat little pug mixes. That dog is taller than the vast majority of my APBTs and is the same heighth as the tallest ones. He's about 80-85lbs.

Highblood, I'm not going to argue whether or not the APBT was the exact bulldog of yesteryears because the name says is all..."American." I have no doubt that the bulldog of yesteryears was a predecessor to the APBT of today, however it was also the predecessor to ALL the bulldog breeds in a sense. The APBT was bred as a pit dog. The bulldog of yesteryears was a bull baiting dog until it was outlawed...then the breeding practices changed in order to revolutionize the dog as a pit dog vs. other dogs. IMO it's kind of like the AST is to the APBT....same dog yet completely different due to different standards regarding breeding.

And nowhere did it say that they are trying to turn the OEBs or ABs into APBTs.

I have a feeling you'd have a lot of fun on an American Bulldog forum bashing their "made up wanna-be dogs."

As for our OEB, he's a pet. That's my version of a pet.

I also want to add that while I love the historical pictures, I have just as many showing versions of the bulldog that look more like the modern day OEB and American Bulldogs. There were many varieties of bulldogs back then. Do I have a problem with some of these new breeders trying to recreate a historical breed for no reason other than money? You bet I do. But if they want to work those dogs in different venues specific to the bulldog breeds, then have at it.yes , yours is much different than what most people call OEB's,thats what I'm wondering if a dog like yours is what OEB's are supposed to look like,kind of like APBT and bullies,you know most everyone these days thinks that bullies are how a pit bull should look,but we know thats not right,so are the short little pug nosed OEB's of today just warped versions of a dog like yours?Say you looked up a standard for a true olde english bulldog ,would it more like your's or the other ones so popular these days?Sorry if this doesnt make too much sense,but as aid I'm still trying to learn all these bulldogs.

[miakoda]

I see... and agree with you, my point is that some self called "breeders" are selling the Olde Bulldogge and other bully breeds as the ancient baiting dog... and this is totally wrong.
I didn't told that they are trying to turn these bullies to a Pit Bull.

I gotcha. I misunderstood. And I agree that unless these dogs are being tested on bulls, then they have no business advertising them as such.

And Chloe, Chipper is an OEB and what an OEB should look like. What is said is I get more compliments like "Nice pit!" & questions on why I didn't crop his ears that I get on my true APBTs. We were even dropped from one homeowner's insurance company due to our "large white aggressive pit bull." To bad Chipper's not aggressive nor is he a "pit bull."

Chloe, here is a picture of Chipper sitting next to our old AKC showdog EB we had. It shows a good comparison:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/Miakoda15/chippereddie.jpg

[miakoda]

More Chipper:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/Miakoda15/chipper3.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/Miakoda15/chipper5.jpg

[dizzle0021]

Just to let every one know there is a difference between and OLDE ENGLISH BULLDOGGE and an English Bulldog. The main difference is the oeb is a rangier dog and has a higher stamina and drive than the worthless little fart machine known as an english bulldog.

[Highbloodbulldog]

Just to let every one know there is a difference between and OLDE ENGLISH BULLDOGGE and an English Bulldog. The main difference is the oeb is a rangier dog and has a higher stamina and drive than the worthless little fart machine known as an english bulldog.
Nobody told that they're the same dog... of course they are very close in blood, but never the same dog.

High stamina? I don't think so...

But, thanks for the answer

[dizzle0021]

I didnt say high stamina i said highER. There is a difference.

[Highbloodbulldog]

I didnt say high stamina i said highER. There is a difference.
Wow, sorry about that :( ...

[ABK]

I can't believe anyone would mistake an OEB for an APBT. :rolleyes:

[mikelia]

While we are on this topic, and Mia you probably can answer this, does anyone know the difference between the Victorian Bulldogge and the OEB? There are some breeders around here that claim they breed victorian bulldogges, and other breeders that breed the OEBs. Really I can't tell the difference aside from some of the 'victorian' bulldogs have a long natural tail and most of the OEBs I've seen are predominantly white, some of the 'victorian' bulldogs are brindle or tri-coloured. Other than that, they look the same to me and no one seems to be able to tell me the difference. And some breeder pages claim that there dogs are Victorian Bulldogges but registered as OEBs? I haven't figured it out yet.

[miakoda]

I can't believe anyone would mistake an OEB for an APBT. :rolleyes:
Neither could I. But if I painted him blue and cropped his ears he'd make me a ton of money!!

[Pipbull]

My heavyweight 4xW is an AST registered but he has mostly Colby/Yellow blood... he ended the career of two recognized and great match dogs here...
Were there ever any Yellow dogs that were registered as AmStaffs? I had no idea, I thought he and the line were strictly APBT...

[Highbloodbulldog]

Were there ever any Yellow dogs that were registered as AmStaffs? I had no idea, I thought he and the line were strictly APBT...
In Brazil, any Pit Bull can be registered as American Staffordshire... and any Staffordshire as Pit Bull... no problem with that...

[realonebulldog]

How can someone really believe that a dog like this is the Old Bulldog?
http://members.lycos.nl/oldeenglishbulldogge/hpbimg/IMAG0025.jpg

And what a hell is "renascence bulldogge"? Is some like that useless (and very very ugly) "olde bulldogge"?

I've been notice by some self called breeder about that "renascence bulldogge"...

Thanks for all. Ouer choice of dogs are the Real one Bulldogs. To approx. 1750 they still looked like our today's APBTs. Then it went slowly loose with breeding for the appearance (prebite, short legs etc.) I think that pic is taken between 1900-1920 or? We keep the legend alive...that dog on the pic is a poor cripple.:cool: below real Bulldogs of 1730 http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/4/5/3/3/Bild064.jpg

[Highbloodbulldog]

Ouer choice of dogs are the Real one Bulldogs. To approx. 1750 they still looked like our today's APBTs. Then it went slowly loose with breeding for the appearance (prebite, short legs etc.) I think that pic is taken between 1900-1920 or? We keep the legend alive...that dog on the pic is a poor cripple.:cool:
yes, I know that but there's some "breeders" and "experts" that really want to made us believe that this kind of... "stuff" are the reborn of the original bulldog, obviously this is a picture taken in the time of the actual english bulldog development or in the crossing of some American Bulldogs lines and English Bulldogs/Mastiff dogs... there's no pictures taken from the actual english bulldog because he didn't exist... they are cleary manipulating informations to hide their freaky experiments in this lie... trying to made some people believe that they are remaking the old working bulldog...

...I do not doubt that some of these dogs are great pets, everyone has the right to chose what dog he want, but obviously they not work in anyway, and I saw that with my own eyes (as I wrote before).

[Pipbull]

...I do not doubt that some of these dogs are great pets, everyone has the right to chose what dog he want, but obviously they not work in anyway, and I saw that with my own eyes (as I wrote before).
What dogs are you talking about in particular? If you're talking about english bulldogs, then I agree, they are definately not bred for much, but American Bulldogs and some other types can definately work. I'm not talking in comparison to the APBT, because the breed is the ultimate athlete, but different breeds have different purposes. Those Ren. Bulldogges are crosses, the breeder knows it and claims it. But he trains them for personal protection, which is not really the job for an APBT. And American Bulldogs are used for hog hunting. There's OEB used for weightpull. Again, I'm not comparing them to the APBT, just saying that there's some that can work and do.

[miakoda]

but obviously they not work in anyway
Try telling that to many American Bulldog owners. I've seen some AB's that could almost make me pack it in with the APBT....almost. ;)

The people I know with AB's have working stock...period. They are some of the most intense Schutzhund dogs I've ever watched in action.

Also, the original bulldog debate is a hot topic among APBT and AB owners as both feel their dogs were the original bulldog (especially since a true AB ranges in weight from 60-90 lbs & look very very similar to those dogs depicted in history).

[realonebulldog]

;) What dogs are you talking about in particular? If you're talking about english bulldogs, then I agree, they are definately not bred for much, but American Bulldogs and some other types can definately work. I'm not talking in comparison to the APBT, because the breed is the ultimate athlete, but different breeds have different purposes. Those Ren. Bulldogges are crosses, the breeder knows it and claims it. But he trains them for personal protection, which is not really the job for an APBT. And American Bulldogs are used for hog hunting. There's OEB used for weightpull. Again, I'm not comparing them to the APBT, just saying that there's some that can work and do. Yes you cant compare the English Showbulldog to good ABs. ABs (working stock)are real workers, impressive dogs. From my point of view the AB is the Real one Bullmastiff.A mixture of our dogs and real working mastiffs. A good Bulldog never needed to be heavy. He controls the bull not with weight he brings technology and athletik into play. He pins there where the bull's ring is placed. The old Bulldogs were small compact, athletic dogs (approx. 15-25 kg). Sometimes one sees in old pictures dogs and thinks: However, they dogs are big.... A mistake the dogs are not that largely, however, the people with in the picture are small ;) . For example, in my picture (Bulldogs from in 1730) this man is an Asiate wich has lived approx. 280 years ago . He will be big from approx. 1.50 to max. 1.60 metre. Before this background one also sees the dogs on the picture in a different light .

[Highbloodbulldog]

Of course I was talking about the actual English Bulldog...

...and about the Olde Bulldogge, I haven't specified, sorry, I saw one of this dogs in a hog arena... was ridiculous, he just ran away from the hog all the time... I do believe that he can be trained to make some guard services.

Thanks.

[Highbloodbulldog]

I like very much some lines of American Bulldogs, ... I know that I have one Mountain Dog called Maverick, great guardian dog... he is very functional and seem like a real huge Pit Bull, but his muzzle is shorter and more massive...

I don't believe that lines as Johnson is pure breed American Bulldogs, but mastiffed ones.
I saw many of these Johnson's line dogs and never can't be compared with one Mountain Dog.

[M Joubert]

How can someone really believe that a dog like this is the Old Bulldog?
http://members.lycos.nl/oldeenglishbulldogge/hpbimg/IMAG0025.jpg

And what a hell is "renascence bulldogge"? Is some like that useless (and very very ugly) "olde bulldogge"?

I've been notice by some self called breeder about that "renascence bulldogge"...

Thanks for all. I own a Renascence Bulldogge. My bulldogge is far from useless! The breed was bred to be a functional working bulldogge. Research the Philo Kuon standard. That standard reflects what the English Bulldog was. You could also research the walking contest of Dockleaf (bred to the Philo Kuon standard) and King Ory (more representative of the bulldog of today). If you have trouble finding the Philo Kuon standard let me know, I'll find a link for you.

[Bullyson]

This thread hasnt been touched in two months. You might want to drop a PM to HighBlood. I havent seen him on in quite a while. :)

[M Joubert]

Thanks I just started reading in here.

[Bullyson]

Its all good man. :) Enjoy your stay!

[frenchie1936]

How can someone really believe that a dog like this is the Old Bulldog?
http://members.lycos.nl/oldeenglishbulldogge/hpbimg/IMAG0025.jpg

And what a hell is "renascence bulldogge"? Is some like that useless (and very very ugly) "olde bulldogge"?

I've been notice by some self called breeder about that "renascence bulldogge"...

Thanks for all.
check out a kennel called gargoyle kennels. his name is chadde jolicouer. he started the whole breed of renascence bulldogs. and did a pretty decent job too btw.

[Mouser]

I like very much some lines of American Bulldogs, ... I know that I have one Mountain Dog called Maverick, great guardian dog... he is very functional and seem like a real huge Pit Bull, but his muzzle is shorter and more massive...

I don't believe that lines as Johnson is pure breed American Bulldogs, but mastiffed ones.
I saw many of these Johnson's line dogs and never can't be compared with one Mountain Dog. Is that a line of dogs started where you live, or something imported. Post of pic of your mountain dog. Mouser

[M Joubert]

Renascence Bulldogges (RB) are a seperate breed than Olde English Bulldogges (OEB). They share similarities in phenotype, that's where the similarities end. Comparing the two would be like saying American Bullies are APBT.
Second even with the dogges are called OEB there is alot of controversy. There are two breed clubs at this very moment that are getting their ducks in a row to have their dogges recognized by the UKC. The Olde English Bulldogge Kennel Club (OEBKC) and the Leavitt Bulldog Association (LBA) have made compromises with each other so that they can move towards UKC recognition. The dogges in the two clubs share the same ancestry. Infact the two were once one, I'm not sure exactly why they split. Only dogges from those two clubs will be recognized by the UKC as OEB. There are several other registries that register OEB, those registries will not recieve UKC recognition.