Future of Pit Bull Community

[Marty]

Dear Members,

As you all probably know by now, there has been a great deal of turnover and controversy on the site in the last few weeks.

All of the stress has started to have a negative impact on my family, and really made me question the future and the direction of game-dog.com. I continue to hear (on the site and through the grapevine) complaints about the management of the site, the content of the site, and even slurs about my family and me. I am tempted to get on with my own life and stop pouring all my free time and money into worrying about this site.

Like the rest of you, I have family, work, and dogs to tend to. If the site isn't appreciated or helpful to people, then it's not worth it any longer.

I have done my best to protect the interests of this site and stand up for our member base, as well as our breed. For every one bad apple causing problems on the site, there are many great members here who get along with each other and help educate the public. I am writing now to ask you, all of our members, to take some responsibility for making this site all that it has been and can be.

To put it bluntly: I've had enough of the whining and bullshit. Our members need to step up and make it the place they want it to be.

How exactly can we make it worth doing, for the dogs and for all of us?

[CynthiaATL]

WOW I did not know it was that bad. I am sorry. I am not behind the scenes but as far as the site it seemed to calm down and start to make a turn for the better.

I hope that this will be worked out. And this site will continue.

I am glad I did find this site. And Marty with out you I would not have been able to get in contact with the person for club here in GA.

I do want to thank the Mods and Admins for what ya'll do. I know it can be a headache. But Thank YOU!;)

[Suki]

you already know how i feel about all this Marty, but all i have to add is:

the ones saying/spreading the crap should be warned &/or banned. permanently.
end of story!

like i already told yah: don't let a few bad apples spoil it for the rest of us.....
to the one(s) causing this $hit=you REALLY need to grow the eff up!!!!

[Verderben]

I hope things get straightened out. I really like this site. I tried out the sister site but , no offense, it sucks. It only sucks though because of a few people on there that IMO shouldn't be there since they are anti everything that involves responsibly keeping this breed (containing), and preserveing the breed. And every other site I have ever been on is the same. A bunch of self rightous morons (not everyone on the sister site is morons just a few, but they are a few too many). So I hope this site stays around. It's the only one I really like.

[AndrewPeabody]

HUH? I am so confused right now. I have been part of this site for about 2 weeks or so and have ran across many awesome people. Zacdaddy and WWII to mention two people have answered e-mails (A lot, I am new so I ask a lot of ?'s)


Marty I am not totally sure on what you've have experienced, but when this post is done, I am going to go and click on your name and see what has happened. Although, I have had no contact with you, I hope you stick it out and try to not let the 'bad apples' ruin it for you bro.


A-Man

[Roadman Jr.]

Hey,Marty this is only my opinion,sometimes things become bigger than you wished or too stressful than you would like,and eats up time from everything else,and for that I am truly sorry.But, you see I don't have true dogmen to ask questions and to learn from,and people that have been around dog for many years,were I can ask somthing even if its stupid,and get an honest answer and put me in the right directing,that means alot to someone,that doesn't no jack,and had it allll wrong.So when I say this please,please don't take it the wrong way.You and the people on this site have the knowledge to do it right,and so I think it is your responsibility to keep it going for people like me,And if you need any couragement here it is.(Thanks to Pit Bull Community I am doing it the right way!!!!) So with that being said,Marty don't lose the faith,it was a great idea when you started this site and IT STILL IS !!!!!!!!

[STPFAN]

Do what you gotta do man...this site is very good but priorities should be taken care of 1st!

Good Luck

YIS

[Bullyson]

I agree. But you're the man ya know? If someone gives you sh!t kick their arses out of here! This has been an awsome experience for me. Ive learned alot about these dogs and about myself. Toss the bad apples in the trash and lets get on with this thing. Thanks. YIS, D.Do what you gotta do man...this site is very good but priorities should be taken care of 1st!

Good Luck

YIS

[BoogiemanBlood]

Marty,

I for one would like to take the opportunity to thank you for the site. It sucks for me to think it would ever NOT be here for my source of info when my mentors or other fellow bulldog people close to me don't have an answer. I also like to share what info I do know with others and help them if I can.

I'm pretty sure I know what you are reffering to now after our pm the other day. I say kick the stupidity right out the door if they can't listen to warnings and have to continue to blatantly break rules. Being asked to stop and ignoring it is absolutely not acceptable and nobody here who has respect for you would expect you to put up with it.

I know it don't mean alot, but you got my support with whatever you do.

BB

[kane85]

Marty this site is a very good site a lot of people on here learn from each other cause nobody knows everything there is always room to learn and grow. I say like everybody has saide kick the bad ones out but also family and personal life always comes first there is no reson to get stress out well let us know what is going to happen and thank you for putting time and effort on this site.

[chinasmom]

Well, I know I have had my ass chewed on here a few times when it didn't need to be. This site ,I thought, was for learning and info, but there are some hard asses that just want to hear their jaws smacking out at anyone that doesn''t know that much about the breed. For those ppl I say... See ya!!!! As far as that goes, it could be me, but I never remember speaking a harsh word to someone wanting to learn about the breed. Yea, you get the ppl that say " how do I know my dog is Pregnant." But the reply's are sometimes so harsh they drive that person away. Yet we know if you don't know the answer to that ? you shouldn't be asking it. But not everyone knows what some others do. This forum is a place of answering ? and giving advice to the needy, Not bashing them for what they don't know. You always catch more flies with honey than vinagar.

[realonebulldog]

Dear Members,

As you all probably know by now, there has been a great deal of turnover and controversy on the site in the last few weeks.

All of the stress has started to have a negative impact on my family, and really made me question the future and the direction of game-dog.com. I continue to hear (on the site and through the grapevine) complaints about the management of the site, the content of the site, and even slurs about my family and me. I am tempted to get on with my own life and stop pouring all my free time and money into worrying about this site.

Like the rest of you, I have family, work, and dogs to tend to. If the site isn't appreciated or helpful to people, then it's not worth it any longer.

I have done my best to protect the interests of this site and stand up for our member base, as well as our breed. For every one bad apple causing problems on the site, there are many great members here who get along with each other and help educate the public. I am writing now to ask you, all of our members, to take some responsibility for making this site all that it has been and can be.

To put it bluntly: I've had enough of the whining and bullshit. Our members need to step up and make it the place they want it to be.

How exactly can we make it worth doing, for the dogs and for all of us? Hello Marty, I hope Iam not a bad apple . Like I sayd before, this side is great, incredibly worldwide. You (you and your son Shon) have made in the past a little bit very right . The problem passes in it that Internet is very impersonal. Disrespectful people use this. But,what exactly is it with this Bullshit generally about? Who cries and why? I do not understand this whole Punch and Judy theatre at all . We are adult people and no toddlers. In connection with this whole annoyance I have sent Shon a PM. 2 sentences(sets). This is everything what I in addition can say. I have a vision. I do not know whether I can one day realise them. Everything speaks against it, only my gameness speaks for it. This side looks for me like the part(section) of a vision. A few idiots should not have the power to destroy a vision. Marty I believe you and Shon are good, honest and dependable people. You two should hold together anyway and find a solution. I support you .:)

[NcPrisonGuard]

Do what you gotta do man...this site is very good but priorities should be taken care of 1st!

Good Luck

YIS

I agree completely. I love the site and I come here every day.. its the only site that I visit everyday. But if your family and such are suffering because of it... then pull the plug. You'll always have my respect no matter what you decide. But there's a time when you have to take care of number one! Take care of it brother.

[PirbulBongo]

I like this site and the work behind it. Its hard to keep a big community like this all happy at the same time for a long period of time.

But do what you have to do, "cull" the ones that do not respect forum rules and keep the ones that add info, opinion and give the right image of what APBT owners MUST be and the reason of this forum being one of the best on the internet.

I know this sound easy but its not (im moderator of like 60 active users and we already had some drama lol) but i know you both can do it.

Long life for game-dog.com!

[deepsouth]

If someone posts something very offensive, just ban them. Like the above post says, if running this board is becoming a burden for you then you have to put your family first. As far as I'm concerned, this is definitely one of (if not the best) board out there for gamedog enthusiasts. Just want to say thanks to all the people "behind the scenes" who keep it up and running. I hope it stays up.

[Searcy Jeff]

Marty,
Family, health and work comes first. At least that's what I go by. Anyhow, like mentioned earlier, things can get overwhelming. I'm sure trying to balance this site with your personal life, can easily get very frustrating. I'm willing to support your decision and respect it as well. I'm fairly new here, but it is here that I feel most comfortable with asking questions and reading opinions. Knowledge within books can only get so far. Facts and experiences from members of this site is exactly the type of knowledge that the student of the breed like myself needs.

[Envy's Mom]

I knew there were problems but I did not realise it was getting this bad. I have learned many things here that I otherwise would have had no one to ask. This place opens many doors for people. I have met many wonderful people who have spent time talking, and teaching me, and even consoling me when I had to make a hard decision to put my dog down. I wish there was something more I could do; if there is just tell me. I thank all of you that make this site possible. I would hope that it would continue, but if it takes a toll on your family I would have to support whatever you need to do.

I would also say ban the bad apples if it this much of a problem!

[Michele]

Marty: I say ban the people that are giving you the problems. You do have enough "good apples" here to continue to educate.

[NOLEFAN]

Personal testimony:


I have been on here for a little while and I got tired of some things that were going on, but never bitched or moaned publically, that I can recall. At one point I ask Marty to delete my account. But after taking a little time off i realized that there is so much info on here and good people that I need to be here to both learn and fellowship with fellow doggers. I will donate my time to the site if you would like. I have 32 certifications in computer technology from various vendors and folks like Microsoft and the likes. If I can help that way i will gladly do so to help lighten your burden. I like seeing the stories some folks post of dogs in the past and some good info. More importantly the friendships that are made. One observation......usually it is the new members that come here and start flapping their gums about this and that and don't want to hear anything, especially the truth. Maybe their posts need to be verified before it can be posted, knowing this will take a lot more time, you can delegate to others this task. I agree with some of the others, ban the a$$holes point blank. You may stomp out a lot of fires by banning discussions on blue dogs and the ones who come here and try to convince the people in the know of something they have been told.

At any rate, Marty this site is envaluable to the dogger community. Obviously handle your business first, as with the majority of us, family comes first. Let us know how we can help.

[screamin'eagle]

I, for one, check in several times daily at game-dog.com to obtain information that is both valuable and entertaining. I appreciate your efforts, but also understands that you have to take care of family and self. I appreciate the site, and the opportunity to get good info regarding the APBT (we all know that myths and misinformation is much more readily available). I echo the sentiments of the other members...if rules aren't followed after several warnings give them the ax. I just wanted to express appreciation for the sites moderators, administrators, and thank game-dog.com for providing a venue to exchange information regarding the APBT.

[DryCreek]

I don't know what to say Marty. Where is the joy to be found once the pleasure has been taken away from something you've worked so hard on? To hear that there have been slurs made against you and yours is reprehensible. I hold NO respect for people who would do such a thing.

I guess it would be unrealistic to expect everyone to be mature and adult about how they post/behave, but to hear that you are taking flak about a site you've worked so hard on, for a cause worth fighting for, saddens me. If you do decide to shut down, you, and the site, will be greatly missed.

How may we help you to achieve the balance required to make this work? Should we speak up against negativity in the posts of others? Should we report problem causing posts? Whatever you ask of us, at least of me and others willing to work on it, I/we will gladly do to ease your stress.

No matter what you do Marty, please know that I hold a deep respect and admiration for what you have achieved with this site and for you as a person.

[TripleJ]

Marty This is the best site I have seen and I am only on this one and I some times check on YOURDOGSHISTORY from time to time. I hope it gets better for you. You seem very fair and respectfull. Good luck and take the B.S with a grain of salt and a shot of tequilla. This site will be very missed if it is shut down. YOURS IN SPORT , Triple J (About time kennels)

[BoiBoi]

please don't shut this site down marty, there are many people here that love this site and would be very sad if it did get shut down. I think the best idea is ban the haters or call them out on this board and let us rip them apart, u know im good at that

[maryellen1]

i have been a member here for a while now, and i am always learning more and more from the members who have the most knowledge.. i like this site, and i dont see why it should be shut down. all internet forums have their drama, thats for sure, you just get rid of the bad apples and go from there..

[AMJULIETTE]

I just wanted to say I really enjoy Game-dog!
The first year that we were trying to get the Georgia Apbt Assocition up and
running I did not know alot of people in the "dog world", My husband and myself had raise pits for sometime but unlike most people we had met around here
we did not breed, for color or size, Warren was all about peds and we had a few dogs that we started with, but nothing with really great peds, it was not until
Shon contacted me about the club did I begin to talk to good ole pit bull lovers.
If not for this board I would not have met Ga Pits and gotten three of our best dogs. If not for them I would not have been able to honor my husband at the
fun show we just had, I want to say Thank you for the past 3 years for the times I was able to get on this board and learn for people who had more knowledge and more experience. I really hope things can work out to keep Game-dog up and running but family should come first and I respect Marty and Shon for all the work on Game-dog but most of all I respect that you are putting family first!!!!

[GAowner]

You need to keep the site up so stupid people like me have a place to ask questions!!!! Andhopefully prevent more stupid people like me. Just think of how many people have come here and learned SO much about the breed or decided this was not for them.


Maybe some peeps will volunteer to help you out?

[ghost 1]

marty you know how i feel

how dare someone talk about you and your family,,,
thats a coward for you,,

its the only site i frequent everyday and for ppl that don't have the balls to say what they need to say to you==F+++ off

THIS IS A COMMUNITY-- YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH MARTY
YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH ME ALSO,,

i'v been here for a long time and couldn't fathom not getting on here to see what up and visit with my friends,,,

[NOLEFAN]

marty you know how i feel

how dare someone talk about you and your family,,,
thats a coward for you,,

its the only site i frequent everyday and for ppl that don't have the balls to say what they need to say to you==F+++ off

THIS IS A COMMUNITY-- YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH MARTY
YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH ME ALSO,,

i'v been here for a long time and couldn't fathom not getting on here to see what up and visit with my friends,,,

here here....same goes for me too

[jeeperino]

I really have no idea what the fuss is about. I can understand to a degree the problems caused for all involved with running the site.

I think the problem stems from the difference between game dog people and pet people. The game dog lifestyle and TRUE dogmen are a dying breed that takes $hit from all parties on all sides. Almost everyone now days has a bleeding heart and looks at dogmen as barbaric outlaws.

People are SHOCKED when I tell them I am not opposed to dogfighting and they can not understand why I admire the breed for its TRUE purpose. I think this is a problem within our own pit bull community as well. Isnt what the sister site was made for????A forum more appropriate for pet bull owners that was filled with mindless fluff and cuteness?????

[NOLEFAN]

I really have no idea what the fuss is about. I can understand to a degree the problems caused for all involved with running the site.

I think the problem stems from the difference between game dog people and pet people. The game dog lifestyle and TRUE dogmen are a dying breed that takes $hit from all parties on all sides. Almost everyone now days has a bleeding heart and looks at dogmen as barbaric outlaws.

People are SHOCKED when I tell them I am not opposed to dogfighting and they can not understand why I admire the breed for its TRUE purpose. I think this is a problem within our own pit bull community as well. Isnt what the sister site was made for????A forum more appropriate for pet bull owners that was filled with mindless fluff and cuteness?????

true, but the same can be said about those who have them as "pets". I know folks who consider mine to be just pets because I pull with them and not fight them. Just because i don't match my dogs doesn't mean I have a bleeding heart and disagree with the intended purpose. I can't do my family any good by being in jail. I do agree with you for the most part, but a little too much of a broad brush to be paintin with. The biggest rukus I see is when the bully folks come on here and stir crap up....

[pennsooner]

Good luck whatever you decide. Being a webmaster is a tough row to hoe. I used to hang out in a chat room devoted to Oklahoma Sooners football. I remember that the guys who ran that site used to get death threats on a fairly regular basis. And that was over whether or not the coach should be fired or not. And I'm not kidding or exaggerating. It was a steady diet of " I know what you look like and you wait until I see you after the next game". Must get very old. I have found the site very interesting and informative and I do hope it stays up.


The passions on a board like this dealing with peoples animals run higher so it must be tough.

I'll add one more thing. Regarding "dogmen". I think the only real issue there is when some fool wants to do everything except have written on their sig " I ENGAGE IN ILLEGAL ACTIVITES ON A REGULAR BASIS. PLEASE COME ARREST ME". Or even worse, post in such a way as to get others to run their mouth about things best kept quite. Think about this. Anyone looking to bust people will come on with " I have the gamest of the game and I test hard.........WHO'S WITH ME! How hard do you test , ect. ect. ect".


Have some small degree of common sense folks.

[BoogiemanBlood]

I'll add one more thing. Regarding "dogmen". I think the only real issue there is when some fool wants to do everything except have written on their sig " I ENGAGE IN ILLEGAL ACTIVITES ON A REGULAR BASIS. PLEASE COME ARREST ME". Or even worse, post in such a way as to get others to run their mouth about things best kept quite. Think about this. Anyone looking to bust people will come on with " I have the gamest of the game and I test hard.........WHO'S WITH ME! How hard do you test , ect. ect. ect".


Have some small degree of common sense folks.AMEN! exactly what i was referring to earlier with my post about mine and marty's pm. idiots that do this know exactly who they are. i suggest EVERYONE give them bad rep for such stupidass posts and then their dribble won't be seen by other members unless they know how to make the negative rep peoples posts appear.

[440rider]

i'm not familiar with anything that's going wrong or the behind the scenes working of this site, i dont post unless i have something to say or info to be shared that is believed to be honest and true.

IMO talk dogs or dont.

There is alot of useless and mindless posts, polls, etc. never understood the rep points either is there a purpose to it?. ALL in all i think those that took this site off the ground did a great job. Marty you seem very genuine and straight forward but if something like this gets in the way of your heath and family it needs to come to an end. How would i fix a website such as this? I would delete all the useless posts, rants and polls. There is alot of usefull info and knowledge to be had from those based on trial on error and experience posted on this forum that need to shine out in order to educate. Tks for allowing me to visit you website. Take care.

[mydawgs]

Marty -

I am sorry to hear of this trouble...but as has been said before we are a community and your trouble is our trouble. You and yours for the past two years, have been a foundation of truth and education for me in my time of need and sorrow, so let us be there for you. No one worth his /her weight in salt would believe or engage in negativity about you or yours, those that have most likely have issues anyway.

As for the purpose of the rep points system, it is a protection measure for the community to make those that are troublesome be invisible. Once someone gets so many bad rep points it is hard for their posts to be seen. Instead of arguing with them, bad rep them to the point they cannot be seen without adjusting your filter. If it happens more than once remove them.

Life is too short Marty, spread the burden to the community, lets handle it together....you are a leader, we need you healthy and happy...most importantly you need to know we are behind you, all you need do is ask..we will do all we can to help!!!!! I know I speak for many of us who love this site and this breed.....

Pets, Pits.....there are no enemies in a fox hole, and as far as I am concerned this breed is in a big ass fox hole, so come on community, put your personal differences aside and work together....personnaly I respect and appreciate the dogger community, but all I will ever have is pets, and all I will ever want is for this breed to make it.

[Michele]

Isnt what the sister site was made for????A forum more appropriate for pet bull owners that was filled with mindless fluff and cuteness?????<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->Jeeperino: With all due respect, Marty posted this thread about THIS forum. Talk about mindless fluff......:rolleyes:..keep the sister site out of this.

Marty: Just get rid of the trash....it's easy. If you need help, I"m here for you.....

[BoogiemanBlood]

I really have no idea what the fuss is about. I can understand to a degree the problems caused for all involved with running the site.

I think the problem stems from the difference between game dog people and pet people. The game dog lifestyle and TRUE dogmen are a dying breed that takes $hit from all parties on all sides. Almost everyone now days has a bleeding heart and looks at dogmen as barbaric outlaws.

People are SHOCKED when I tell them I am not opposed to dogfighting and they can not understand why I admire the breed for its TRUE purpose. I think this is a problem within our own pit bull community as well. Isnt what the sister site was made for????A forum more appropriate for pet bull owners that was filled with mindless fluff and cuteness?????actually i believe you are barking up the wrong tree. it's morons that come on and talk about dog fighting like it's not illegal and now people are associating him with the dumbass statements that these people are making. funny how you're too blind to see that and need to stir a kettle tha has nothing to do with the OP. if you can't be part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

[wally81]

well marty this site is good in my eyes and really don't know a lot about dogs, and have came to this site for info on more than one occasion to learn. i also find it disturbing :confused: that someone would have the balls to threaten your family and to you go f yourself :D . this man spends time to try and help are cause and has a place where we can all come learn and some people are acting like a frickin 12 year old. and i would go out on a limb here and say i am probably the only 20 year old that comes to this site daily to learn and actually cares about his dog and if i am not the only one of the few. so marty i hope you find out the guys ip add. and ban the lil punk.:D

[jeeperino]

Nolefan- I do tend to paint with broader strokes than needed. I understand where u r coming from. There is a difference between a dogfan and a dogman.

Michelle- No offense intended to the sister site or its members.Isnt that why it was created so pet owners can have a site that is less serious and geared toward the pet audience? That way u can post all the pics u want of your lil dog with that purple hat and nobody can complain. I havent spent more than 5 mins on it, so I cant make further comments.

Boogie- I wasnt quite sure what this whole thing was about. I am seeing more clearly now. Although I do think that the pet/show/pit divide is a small part of the problem of the board. It is almost obvious the animosity towards some members from other members because they are on different sides of the fence. IMO this site has lost a lot of quality members for some reason or another and I think this is due to the divide within our own community.

Certain topics walk a very thin line with many shades of gray while others cross the line entirely. It is to be expected when dealing with owners of our breed because people from all walks of life own our breed and damn near all of them have a cpu. Not everyone has the same standards for "risky" behavior or even ignorant behavior and the internet sure seems to bring them out.

I understand that because of this sites mass exposure it has the potential to influence many people because of a few bad apples. If someone is talking wreckless on the internet, you can bet they are wreckless in personal matters and will have a mess on their hands soon (If they arent lying behind a monitor).

[Verderben]

actually i believe you are barking up the wrong tree. it's morons that come on and talk about dog fighting like it's not illegal and now people are associating him with the dumbass statements that these people are making. funny how you're too blind to see that and need to stir a kettle tha has nothing to do with the OP. if you can't be part of the solution, you're part of the problem.You are 100% right. That is actually how I found this site. It was the time I was getting close to cutting ties with my petaphile friends because I was starting to see that they didnt really love animals. That they in fact hated animals. There was a post on one of thier garbage PeTA lists "Look at this site its for dogfighters" or some garbage. I remember that the post they linked to didnt even really have anything to do with fighting. I started poking around the site. I started reading and learning and even more so saw how wrong these AR nuts were. I joined the site. After awhile cut ties with the ARs. Who in turn made my life hell, accused me of dog fighting ect. But that was a few years ago and I would rather not go back to that period of my life. But if it wasn't for this site I would probably still be a dumbass thinking you can love the DA out of these dogs, and thinking chains are cruel.

[BoogiemanBlood]

Nolefan- I do tend to paint with broader strokes than needed. I understand where u r coming from. There is a difference between a dogfan and a dogman.

Michelle- No offense intended to the sister site or its members.Isnt that why it was created so pet owners can have a site that is less serious and geared toward the pet audience? That way u can post all the pics u want of your lil dog with that purple hat and nobody can complain. I havent spent more than 5 mins on it, so I cant make further comments.

Certain topics walk a very thin line with many shades of gray while others cross the line entirely. It is to be expected when dealing with owners of our breed because people from all walks of life own our breed and damn near all of them have a cpu. Not everyone has the same standards for "risky" behavior or even ignorant behavior and the internet sure seems to bring them out.

I understand that because of this sites mass exposure it has the potential to influence many people because of a few bad apples. If someone is talking wreckless on the internet, you can bet they are wreckless in personal matters and will have a mess on their hands soon (If they arent lying behind a monitor). why do you assume it has anything to do with pet bull owners or the sister site? i didn't see anywhere in his post where he said anything about either.

jeeperino i saw you edited your post so i am also to reply. as was clearly stated the last time this all came up the mission statement of the site is clearly defined on the home page. it includes all walks of pit bull ownership. show/pull/pet/working/hunting i do agree that the time before it was more geared toward the fighting bickering between the masses, but it seems to me most of that has stopped because people knew the outcome would be a one way ticket out the door. like i said it has now gone beyond that to downright stupidity of discussions that should never happen and were not discussed in the last thread about the future of game-dog. i have one certain member i would love to name, but that would not be appropriate. they are completely stupid and wreckless with their posts and anybody that visits regularly will prbly know who i am speaking of. they would be the first dumbass out the door IMO and anybody who couldn't fall in line with the rules would follow.

[NOLEFAN]

"Nolefan- I do tend to paint with broader strokes than needed. I understand where u r coming from. There is a difference between a dogfan and a dogman."


I got ya bro....that is true indeed.

[jeeperino]

why do you assume it has anything to do with pet bull owners or the sister site? i didn't see anywhere in his post where he said anything about either.Check edit of the post u quoted. I assume working owners wouldnt have a problem with what other working owners do. So I could be safe to assume its a pet owner or a non- pet owner that is causing trouble and not the owner of working dogs.

After some research I see that it is about the recent over the top threads and select members that have been talking wreckless. BOOT THEIR ASS!!! (even if that includes me)

[BoogiemanBlood]

Check edit of the post u quoted. I assume working owners wouldnt have a problem with what other working owners do. So I could be safe to assume its a pet owner or a non- pet owner that is causing trouble and not the owner of working dogs.

After some research I see that it is about the recent over the top threads and select members that have been talking wreckless. BOOT THEIR ASS!!! (even if that includes me)i did check edit your post and edited mine also while you were posting this...lol

[castle]

Marty I dont post much but I do come on and have a mooch around and do a bit of reading , and haveing been invovled in running a site I know there is a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes from trying to keep the site running smoothly and especially the what this site is geared for keeping an eye on what is being said ,then there is the validateing members keeping an eye out for the banned troublemakers slipping back and also keeping them damned spammers away and from what I see you are doinjg a good job its your site you run it the way you want it to be run and I am sure you will find most will run with you

[miakoda]

Marty, you know I love this site. The past 2 weeks have been hectic so my time on here has been limited. However, I cannot imagine the site not being here....not because I can't live without the internet because I can, but because I don't know what I would do without this constant contact with friends & acquaintences and the support I receive.

This place isn't just a place to talk bloodlines & the like, but it's a place to learn about all aspects of dog health care & upbringing. It's a place to gather statistics from and education from to fight BSL. It's a place to gather where you know that the the majority of the others sitting behind their computers are fighting the same battle just in a different location.

The internet right now is being termed the downfall of the breed, but we have the power to change that! And we need to!

To the members of the site, THIS IS A PUBLIC SITE. Anything you post on here, words or pictures, is viewable to anyone & everyone! Look at the forums around you that have recently closed & do the math. There are police officers on this site as guests and as registered members. And everyone should be well aware of by now that one can be prosecuted based on "evidence" just as that previously mentioned. I understand this is a gamedog site, but this is NOT a site to discuss what is going on this weekend and where. It's not wanted here nor is it going to be allowed. And I am also tired of "babysitting" these folks who are intent on running their mouths regardless of the warnings from other members, moderators, & admin personnel (& regardless of their own common sense).

I see the problems of this site, and as long as the site continues, there will be problems. Sadly, some members refuse to help solve the problems & instead continue to be one so to that I say "Leave on your own or be banned."

The only other solution I can think of is to make it a private site & restrict who can be a member & see the site information & who cannot. And I think that's a sad way to go as there are so many guests who view the site regularly & learn a lot. IMO, it's not much different than BSL.

[Suki]

why do you assume it has anything to do with pet bull owners or the sister site? i didn't see anywhere in his post where he said anything about either.

jeeperino i saw you edited your post so i am also to reply. as was clearly stated the last time this all came up the mission statement of the site is clearly defined on the home page. it includes all walks of pit bull ownership. show/pull/pet/working/hunting i do agree that the time before it was more geared toward the fighting bickering between the masses, but it seems to me most of that has stopped because people knew the outcome would be a one way ticket out the door. like i said it has now gone beyond that to downright stupidity of discussions that should never happen and were not discussed in the last thread about the future of game-dog. i have one certain member i would love to name, but that would not be appropriate. they are completely stupid and wreckless with their posts and anybody that visits regularly will prbly know who i am speaking of. they would be the first dumbass out the door IMO and anybody who couldn't fall in line with the rules would follow.

it's not in regards to people who own "pit bulls" as pets. so put all that aside, please.:) ...

[dogged]

I'll add one more thing. Regarding "dogmen". I think the only real issue there is when some fool wants to do everything except have written on their sig " I ENGAGE IN ILLEGAL ACTIVITES ON A REGULAR BASIS. PLEASE COME ARREST ME". Or even worse, post in such a way as to get others to run their mouth about things best kept quite. Think about this. Anyone looking to bust people will come on with " I have the gamest of the game and I test hard.........WHO'S WITH ME! How hard do you test , ect. ect. ect".


Have some small degree of common sense folks.

Good stuff right there.

...I will be sad to see this site go if it comes to that. Yes, sometimes I've had to weed through a few "bad apple" posts to get to the good info, but the knowledge gained is worth it by far.
Running such a large forum is nothing to shake a stick at. My suggestion? Start a beer fund for all the admins and mods for those tough days when people start $hit. :D Just joking... ;)

Also, I'm really sorry to hear that people have stooped low enough to insult you and your family, Marty. Keep your chin up.

[realonebulldog]

Also, I'm really sorry to hear that people have stooped low enough to insult you and your family, Marty. Keep your chin up. Who and how? Iam allways friendly and gentle but thats simply unbelievable.Marty invests strain, time and money and this is the wage? How stupid can people be? Marty it does me sadly this to hear, I would never have believed there are so absolutely demented and disrespectful people . In Germany one says: As a person too stupidly, as a pig too small ears..... :mad:

[GAPITS]

I would first like to say that this is one of the greatest sites out there for information and I personally would hate to see it go away. It has always been a great source of information for one and all. It has changed quite a bit from the first time I logged on, some good changes and some bad, but no one ever expected it to stay completely the same. Times change and so do we, which nescessitates changes in this board to.

For those that want to come and stir the pot, repeat rumors and generally try to make life harder for those already here, I say move on we do not need you.

Marty and his family are good people and have worked very hard to make this site available. It is time for the rest of us to step up and take some of the pressure off of them to make this site continue. I will personally take a more active role and will do my best to keep this board up and running for a long time to come.

[simms]

Dear Members,

As you all probably know by now, there has been a great deal of turnover and controversy on the site in the last few weeks.

All of the stress has started to have a negative impact on my family, and really made me question the future and the direction of game-dog.com. I continue to hear (on the site and through the grapevine) complaints about the management of the site, the content of the site, and even slurs about my family and me. I am tempted to get on with my own life and stop pouring all my free time and money into worrying about this site.

Like the rest of you, I have family, work, and dogs to tend to. If the site isn't appreciated or helpful to people, then it's not worth it any longer.

I have done my best to protect the interests of this site and stand up for our member base, as well as our breed. For every one bad apple causing problems on the site, there are many great members here who get along with each other and help educate the public. I am writing now to ask you, all of our members, to take some responsibility for making this site all that it has been and can be.

To put it bluntly: I've had enough of the whining and bullshit. Our members need to step up and make it the place they want it to be.

How exactly can we make it worth doing, for the dogs and for all of us?
I apprieciate you and your family for what you do here.Most dont have the dedication to this breed that you do :). If they cant put em up they need to shud up. Dont sweat the small stuff!

[Marty]

I really appreciate the fine members of this site... you are what keeps me going and keeps the site afloat. I will not shut the site down because of a few bad apples. They will be banned. Trust me. I am going to be adding a few more people to help out, because my time is limited now, due to going back to work. The rules that are set will be abided by or else! I have given more than enough warnings and abusers will not be tolerated any longer, The rules are as follows, just in case you have not read them...

The following are a set of rules you are required to abide by to remain in good standing within the community. These rules are set to provide an educational environment and experience for all users. Depending on the severity of the rule or situation, your first offense will be resolved by an informal caution that may or may not be documented.

The Pit Bull Community administration reserves the right to modify these rules at any time deemed necessary without prior or post notification. It is your responsibility to keep up with any changes that are made to ensure that you abide by them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Do not post anything illegal or extremely controversial (unless from a historical and/or educational perspective), offensive (including, but not limited to, excessive or extreme profanity, or content which could be construed as racist, discriminatory, or unsuitable for most age groups, etc.), or pornographic, whether it be a post, image, link, profile field, or private message.

2.Do not post images, threads, or replies of or about your or someone else's dog(s) looking or acting aggressive (intimidating, vicious, etc.), regardless of whether it is the nature or instinct of the breed(s) or not.

3.Do not release personal or private information (including your own) such as full or partial name, address, phone number, email address, or any other confidential information anywhere on the site.

4.Argue with posts, not the poster. Debating topics are good, but arguing, flaming, or bashing between members or of any off-site person, site, or kennel is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.

5.Avoid advising or suggesting treatments of medical conditions.

6.Do not take advice for treating medical conditions before consulting a licensed veterinarian.

7.If a staff member makes a reasonable requests of you , it is wise to comply. Blatant disregard of requests will not be tolerated and will result in disciplinary actions, up to and including banishment, depending on the nature and severity of the situation.

8.Do not post dogs for sale or up for stud. If you feel it necessary to peddle, do it elsewhere.

9.Do not post dogs to be farmed, given away, or anything thereof. You may post dogs that are facing euthanization, abandonment, etc. as rescues if they are spayed or neutered, otherwise dogs\puppies may not change hands by means of this site.

10.Respect all copyrights and intellectual property rights of others and the site.

11.Keep a working e-mail address that does not block email from game-dog.com.

12.Do not share user accounts or create multiple accounts. You are ultimately responsible for everything related to your account.

13.Do not spam, troll, or try to convert non-believers. Offer your opinions and suggestions, but do not force them on another individual.


14.Use the search feature before asking a question. Some people may get agitated answering the same question multiple times and reflect that with negative comments.


15.Only post things in the correct forum. The forum designations are there for your benefit as well as everyone else’s. If there is a question relating to where you should post, feel free to ask in the Site Support forum for a suggestion.


16.If you post, post quality not quantity. Do not waste space only to raise your post count.


17.Use capitalization, spelling, grammar, paragraphs, contractions, and punctuation correctly if at all possible (no all caps, lack of caps, run-ons with no punctuation, abbreviations, single paragraphs with different subjects, etc.).


18.Do not post in excessively large or unreadable fonts, in many colors or otherwise obscure the content of your post.


19.Do not reply to yourself to add to or correct what you said in a prior post unless it is to bump the thread (which you should report after being successful so it may be removed), use the edit button instead.


20.Avoid one-line posts, unless what is said is best said short.


21.Avoid using multiple characters or smilies simultaneously (e.g. !!!!, ????, etc.), it only takes up space and doesn't emphasize your point any more so than using only one.


22.Keep your posts on the topic the thread was originally created for. For different topics, make a new thread in the appropriate forum. If you feel like chatting, there is a chat room available.


23.Do not post links to sites with content conflicting with these rules.

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As I've said numerous times, this site is not only for gamedoggers. We are here to educate the public about the APBT and all that the breed encompasses. Meaning, any one and every one is welcome to come and learn about this great breed. Therefore, I will not allow the members of this site to bash you and I will not allow you to bash our new members. They hopefuly are here to learn. If not, they can "find the door"... I do not care if they don't even own the breed as long as thery're here to learn. So, get that straight right now!

Just to let you all know, the culprit has not posted to this thread and I will not stoop to their level and retaliate by calling them names and slandering their families, as well.
I thank you all for your continued support and look forward to a promising future at Game-Dog.

[ghost 1]

thanks alot marty we are all here

as you can see ,,, we got ur back if you ever need us,,,

[chinasmom]

And I agree with what Suki said about "pet bulls' and "pit bulls." I know ppl on here that have both. Does that mean their comments are not welcome here and should go somewhere else?



I love you and what your family are trying to do and have done for this forum. Respect always. Linda

[jeeperino]

It seems we have some sensitive members:rolleyes:, back to back negative feedback for my earlier post???:D Im sure more to come LOL. Anyway, this site has helped to keep me sane and educated nearly every day since I found it, it would be a terrible shame to see it gone. Im glad u are gonna keep scratchin Marty and Co. u all have a MUCH stronger commitment to the breed than most for running this site with such strong convictions.

[14rock]

Marty and Shon, I've spoken with you enough about this subject for you to know how I feel. The site is fantastic, and I would love to see it continue. However, knowing the ammount of time, money, and stress it is causing in your family, something needs to change. We've stepped up to a huge server to allow us to run new versions of software for the members, and avoid the down-time and space constraints the old server burdened us with. Shon and Marty are paying out of pocket for new software for this site, that is compatible with the intended future and progression. The monthly bill just in upkeep, has skyrocketed from the time I joined staff and became aware. They pay additional money monthly, that the account just doesn't have, for a chat room which no one uses. We have a brand new sister site to help alleviate some of the problems, and still have so many problems here I have only had time to check that forum once since it went public. I could go on and on, but the point I'm trying to make is, very few people really realize how much money and effort is poured into the site, with little gain. All that comes at a cost, to Shon, Marty, their family, dogs, and every other paying member. It takes a toll on the rest of Staff, through their time spent cleaning up the bullshit. It's been brought to my attention, a few members have even been targeted and discriminated against, simply for being members of this forum. I am talking run of the mill stuff, that has directly put an end to a caring family of dog owners because of manipulative viewers of the forum being privy to reading a single personal post with nothing more than a first name and town in the thread. Marty and Shon are directly targeted, slandered, and threatened because of their efforts on this forum. With the current state of affairs, I do not think the site is doing enough positive to continue the burden. However, I have personally seen, that the forum DOES work, and is capable with the right member base. Obviously, everyones goal should be to return to that point, and give the site a reason to exist. When Staff asks for suggestions and opinions on how to do that, very few people spoke up with anything other than personal complaints. We are aware of the recent short-comings, what we need is a solution!

Banning members does not work. The most recent direct threats I am aware of, are from multiple previously banned members. Some are recent, some are ancient. Some were no bodies, some made it into staff until they abused their powers. I am positive, the problems I am aware of, are not the only banned-members with silly vendetta's. I am speaking of no one in particular, yet all of them as a whole. Malicious acts because you were removed from an internet website, is absurd, and shows the character of some of the culprits we personally deal with. We have recognized our mistakes, and are working within our power to keep the site beneficial and positive. Think before you post, remember the sites main goal, and continue to help us, help the site back to what we know it should be.

I'd recommend some new suggestions in the thread created for that purpose, for those sincere about making this work. For those who are not dedicated, quit wasting time (yours, and ours), jump the wall, and don't look back. There are some fantastic members of this site, who I know will do their best. Hopefully, it is enough so we can continue the site in a positive way.

Do your part, that is all we ask.

For those who bothered to read all of this, thank you.

[Shon]

You have absolutely no support from me... I'm done with it. Just hope that I'm able to afford the monthly payments for the server, because if not, this will be the first to go. I made you the main administrator in my stead, good luck.

[clutch billups]

wow... i really dont know what to say? ....

14 rock hit it on the head when he said enough bitching lets find a solution i couldnt agree more but where do we start? how do you find a solution to a problem you cant see? to be quite honest i dont fully understand the problems here, i mean obviously marty and his family are being harrassed which is unexceptible, and again obviously money is an issue you people put money out of your own pocket to keep this site up and running as was said before your dedication to the breed is unmatched... i envy it...

now moving on money is an issue, well then you need more members and talking about closing the site down isnt in my opinion the best way to achieve that goal, not bashing this is nessicary conversation but some will not see that. now some will say this is coming from a non paying member and they would be right maybe my opinion doesnt even matter here because of that fact... but to be honest this isnt the first time ive heard chatter about the site closing and the way i look at it is my 25 dollars isnt gunna make or break the site so if its gunna close im not gunna make the investment ... on the other hand if its gunna be around well im down i will sign up next wendsday and i recomend everone that hasnt yet do so very soon. more members = more money = shon marty and whom ever else doesnt have to take as much out of pocket for OUR site...

its our responsibility to make sure this thing works ... why? because ist ours i know that this is shon and martys baby (maybe more i dont know) but we come here every day and everyones cryied about how much they would miss it and i aggree i would be a pissed individuall if this site just up and vanished like a fart in the wind i come here daily i am a changed person BECAUSE of this site plain and simple .

now as far as the non hackers not following rules and talking smack .... well my advice to anyone that it bothers it as follows "CONCIDER THE SOURCE"
they dont matter they are internet pushovers trying to act tuff take it with a grain of salt marty if your family is being harassed and slandered i would recomend niping it in the butt as soon as possible call the cops file a formal report i dont know exsactly whats going on but it seems to me we are all adults here and we should be able to co-exsist whether or not our opinions are the same we have a variety of people here at gamedog and thats the point if all you do is talk to "dogmen" what are you really doing preaching to the chorus in my opinion we need idiots that belive blues are true bulldogs we need show people we need pet owners we need everyone that we can get because thats how you educate a vast amount of people you spread the word i feel confident that the majority of you people do exsactly as i do you talk to people you try and educate the ignorant...

well in my opinion THE MORE THE MARRYER cause im tellin ya what the fuckers on the other side of the field they are not worryd about money they are not arguing about petty name calling they are all the things we as a community ARE NOT for the most part .... everyone is ME ME ME well fuck you im sorry but this is about the dogs and thats that they are courdinated they are pushing for the same goal and that my friends for those of you that seem to have forgoten IS TO BANISH OUR BREED OF DOG

to make life hell for responsible good true to the game breeders DOGMEN and here we sit having pissing contests about this and that all petty shit if you ask me but hey who the hell am i ... im just a guy in a huge world full of folks that are aginst what i belive is the best friend a guy or gall could ask for... and im doing what i can to educate im doing what i can to get my dog out there for all to see im doing my part to be the kind of citizen we need representing our breed... am i perfect HA hell no but show me the guy that is and ill shake his hand... i enjoy comming here and this needs to be resolved i am offering my help i will do what ever you ask of me within reason.... STARTING WITH SIGNING UP NEXT WED MARK MY WORDS I RECOMEND EVERYONE THAT HASNT DO SO AS SOON AS POSSIBLE WE NEED TO HELP THESE FINE FOLKS OUT THEY ARE DOING THIS FOR OUR BREED OF DOG THEY ARE DOING THIS FOR US

ITS A SELFLESS ACT AND FOR THAT I OWE YOU ALL .... jesse and clutch...

[Texasbulldogs]

Sorry to hear of your troubles Marty! The problem seems to lie within the direction the site was/has taken. Possibly time to reevaluate those chooses made and determine if they was correct, what needs to change and what needs to stay the same. I’ve enjoyed the site just knew along with others at the time in 2004-5 the direction a few was seeking for the board was going to be its ruin. Maybe the issues lies within it purpose…education? Is it really an “educational” site? I don’t believe so, not any more than any other board on the net. Just look at the educational information and compare it to everything else. Sad state of affairs when members and even staff seek “knowledge” and actual “dog talk” else where on other sites-should be a wake up call! As many have publicly stated such on this very board, seem to have unknowingly created a BS gathering place not a place to share and learn about the breed. <O:p</O:p

Trying to tailor a site to pet/rescue owners is much like giving your enemy all your ammo. Not going to do anything but cause yourself harm and what you’re fighting for (bulldogs)! When we as a community start catering to multi-breeds simply because the AR groups have made them one in the same, it’s a problem. Those aren’t the type one should be following their lead on! Ironic most of the older members (that have stuck around) have complained that it’s not the same site or feel on it, like it once was. Is that not a red flag for staff to find out what went wrong and correct it? Back then it was great, maybe much smaller…also much better and a true community. Didn’t need all the fluff crap, that ultimately serves zero purpose but as attractant to pet owners. When it was only a board and chat room…everything was heavily used. Rock mentioned no one ever uses the chat room these days…could that be, because it’s not a tight nit community anymore, and who wants to chat with most of the current members? When it was geared towards the bulldogs there was always someone in there to chat with, didn’t matter what time of the day. It wasn’t for dog talk, simply to get to know one another better on a personal basis though at times there was some dog talk. <O:p</O:p

We all realize there will never be a place for pet/rescue and bulldog owners to reside together. Most bulldog owner’s think of pet owners much like PETA and other AR groups-exterminators to the breed. Pet owners will never preserve this breed or help it, yet the board tailors to them. WHY? How can they help? When they’ve never owned it or experienced the greatness it is. They simply have a feed burner they believe is an APBT but will never know if they have a true representative. Sad, very sad down right pathetic! Not saying all pet owners are bad, have meet a few that are great. Problem is they’re few and far between. Most simply do more harm in their supposed “good deeds” than good and attract more unwanted pet owners to a working breed. All of which equals the ruins of a breed! Once the numbers became more, pet versus working owners…the board lost it greatness and from the sounds of it most lost their enjoyment with the boards along with that.<O:p</O:p

Now comes the time for the board to get its plug pulled or do a major overhaul. Who cares if it goes back to the basics, the board loses a thousand useless members, and it once again is a basic board with only a chat room? These mutts and even boards should be enjoyable-not a burden. Time to decide what’s important! Ones enjoyment, and a knowledgeable fun board, or simply a board with a false sense of “educating” that members go else where to seek knowledge and enjoyment. Never should be a time where members and staff (especially) feel if wanting to talk dogs or truly learn something, they have to go elsewhere. <O:p</O:p

Seems time to get back to the basics, do a major overhaul and lose the excessive expenses that have become a burden (financially and emotionally). Big deal if a thousand or more members leave…obviously they was only here for the fluff and to leech if not $hit on the board. Not like the board will really lose anything after all how many actual members really share anything or answer any questions of importance 15-20 out of how many hundreds, possibly thousands? The overall enjoyment should be the priority not number of members. Get the tight nit community atmosphere back, the enjoyment and information would return.

[Michele]

Pet owners will never preserve this breed or help it,Texas: I'm a pet owner and I do everything I can to help your breed...so, what am I? I'm a little insulted by your post. I dedicate alot of time helping "your" breed.

yet the board tailors to them. WHY? How can they help? When they’ve never owned it or experienced the greatness it is. I have never owned your breed Texas, but I do fight for their rights to reside on the earth, be it as a pet, working dog, whatever. I personally do not need to own this breed to know how great the breed is. Also, I educate others. So, what category would you put me in?

[simms]

Hey Marty,

I can see where this thread is going. Again i appriciate all that you and your family does for this breed. Lock this thread down and give this board a chance to move forward.

Thank you.

[simms]

I would also like to add, that I am guilty of bashing and bird dogging ppl on this board.......however I as well as others do have the choice in what and who and how we respond . Moving forward ....lets talk about the APBT.

[jeeperino]

Texas: I'm a pet owner and I do everything I can to help your breed...so, what am I? I'm a little insulted by your post. I dedicate alot of time helping "your" breed.

I have never owned your breed Texas, but I do fight for their rights to reside on the earth, be it as a pet, working dog, whatever. I personally do not need to own this breed to know how great the breed is. Also, I educate others. So, what category would you put me in?
Michelle, please dont take this the wrong way. This is a perspective of some apbt owners: You are not helping "our" breed. If u arent a a bulldogger you dont have any business owning this breed. The public is to thank for the mess "our" dogs are in. Its the publics fault you have to fight BSL or do rescues. Some dogmen could give a shit about bsl. They are as game as their dogs and will have bulldogs NO MATTER WHAT!!

If u dont know what the breed is all about, how can you possibly educate folks accurately?? IMO they dont need to be educated, that might lead to them wanting an apbt for all the wrong reasons. If the APBT population was drasticly reduced our problems would slowly start going away. Maybe some forms of bsl might help the breed as a whole??

This is an extreme point of view, but it does exist in the apbt community. I just thought Id share the other side for you.

[miakoda]

I am on the verge of editing out several posts here. It's now a tight ship & if you don't like it, feel free to walk....away.

[Michele]

Michelle, please dont take this the wrong way. This is a perspective of some apbt owners: You are not helping "our" breed. If u arent a a bulldogger you dont have any business owning this breed. The public is to thank for the mess "our" dogs are in. Its the publics fault you have to fight BSL or do rescues. Some dogmen could give a shit about bsl. They are as game as their dogs and will have bulldogs NO MATTER WHAT!!

If u dont know what the breed is all about, how can you possibly educate folks accurately?? IMO they dont need to be educated, that might lead to them wanting an apbt for all the wrong reasons. If the APBT population was drasticly reduced our problems would slowly start going away. Maybe some forms of bsl might help the breed as a whole??

This is an extreme point of view, but it does exist in the apbt community. I just thought Id share the other side for you.
I really do understand it from your view, I really do. Why do you think I don't have one? Would I educate just anybody to get this breed. No way. This breed is not for everyone. My education of the breed has to do with letting people know that these dogs are not monsters. And I do agree with you to a point when you say the public is to blame for the mess. I really do understand it from your point of view......

[simms]

Michelle, please dont take this the wrong way. This is a perspective of some apbt owners: You are not helping "our" breed. If u arent a a bulldogger you dont have any business owning this breed. The public is to thank for the mess "our" dogs are in. Its the publics fault you have to fight BSL or do rescues. Some dogmen could give a shit about bsl. They are as game as their dogs and will have bulldogs NO MATTER WHAT!!

If u dont know what the breed is all about, how can you possibly educate folks accurately?? IMO they dont need to be educated, that might lead to them wanting an apbt for all the wrong reasons. If the APBT population was drasticly reduced our problems would slowly start going away. Maybe some forms of bsl might help the breed as a whole??

This is an extreme point of view, but it does exist in the apbt community. I just thought Id share the other side for you.

. They are as game as their dogs and will have bulldogs NO MATTER WHAT!! AMEN!......

[Marty]

Some food for thought: as has been stated the public is the reason for BSL why? They get a hold of these dogs knowing nothing about them letting them run lose killing other dogs/cats and causing all sorts of problems for the rest of the breed. Why I ask you do you not think they need to be educated?

Yes I wish the general public had never got there hands on them but now that they do they should not be educated on what they should and should not do? that's crazy.

I for one am all about trying to help the public be aware of there mistakes as that's why the site was started to begin with. if you think they don't need our help why should we continue that is my question to you.

So who is causing the problems for the breed? and what should we as a Community do about it? just sit back and watch the breed die out?

[Michele]

Some food for thought: as has been stated the public is the reason for BSL why? They get a hold of these dogs knowing nothing about them letting them run lose killing other dogs/cats and causing all sorts of problems for the rest of the breed. Why I ask you do you not think they need to be educated?

Yes I wish the general public had never got there hands on them but now that they do they should not be educated on what they should and should not do? that's crazy.

I for one am all about trying to help the public be aware of there mistakes as that's why the site was started to begin with. if you think they don't need our help why should we continue that is my question to you.

So who is causing the problems for the breed? and what should we as a Community do about it? just sit back and watch the breed die out?
thanks....that's what i'm trying to say......

[idgie]

I think the direction taken by this thread is actually very useful. Marty asked for suggestions, and I for one really appreciate everyone's input, and all the support for Marty and the site. I haven't been on the board much in a long time, but I still love the site. This site changed my life, literally, because it opened up the world of working dogs to me, which led to me meeting and marrying my husband :) It will be a sad day for us if the site is taken down.

I'm gonna share my 2 cents, offered in the spirit of progress:

1. The petbull vs. dogger debate has been the biggest source of controversy on this board. It is obviously very hard for these groups to co-exist peacefully. But this is the only place on the net (to my knowledge) where they can coexist at all. And how many people have benefitted from that conversation?! A lot of pet bull owners have learned about the true nature of the breed, and come to question a lot of the media hype. Is that alone not worth welcoming petbullers, blue dogs, etc?

If doggers want a dogger-only forum, they still exist (although less by the day, it seems). Most of them are also very small and not very active. Who would it benefit to turn this site into one of those? This also would create a lot more risk for the site's members and potential liability for its owners!

I'm not sure the site really caters to petbullers. I'd suggest that it cater to preserving the breed in its working form. And anyone who is interested in that can take part.

2. I think there should be a place on here for non-dog related chat, and not just in the chat room. Everyone is talking about all the great friends they've made here, so why is it so important that all talk be dog talk? As long as the chit-chat forum is clearly delineated, people should be able to get uninterrupted dog talk if that's what they want.

That being said, non-dog talk should not be allowed to include the bashing of any particular political party, religion, race, yada yada. I've felt completely unwelcome here under the Christian right regime which has been so vocal on this site recently. I don't have any problem with Christianity or political conservatism, but the climate here has been unwelcome of all differences in belief, which is unAmerican and also just plain sux. Intolerant statements should continue to be moderated and deleted. The site is not a pulpit.


I really appreciate all the hard work Marty, Shon, and the other admins and mods have put into this site daily. They are not making a dime off it, it is a labor of love. Anyone who would diss on Marty is not a friend of the breed.

[jeeperino]

I guess at this point, education is the key. I do beleive the internet is going to become the downfall of our breed and not because of sites like this one. I have no solution better than the one you have already stated. Its damn near an unsolvable problem.

As far as the extinction of our breed. NOT IN MY BACKYARD, NO MATTER WHERE I HAVE TO MOVE, WHAT I HAVE TO PAY, OR WHAT LAWS I MUST BREAK.

[mydawgs]

It is a sad day when you can't pull resources together that have the same purpose because of tactics. That purpose is the continuation of this breed. Here is something to chew on jeep and Texas, I have two pit bull dogs, one APBT and one Am St. Because of this board they will most likely be the last I own. My two have been culled and will live their lives out in the comfort of all I can give them. They will be supervised properly, contained properly, trained, exersized, fed and loved as pets. It was this community and it's members that taught me how to do these things correctly, and it was my association with bulldog folks that have convinced me - not through negativity, but by what is real and true that another breed of dog is probably what is best FOR ME, once my two go on to a better place. Not because I don't love these dogs, because I do...but now I see, and my choices for the future can be guided by knowledge, not impulse.

Has this site then not accompished the very same thing you want? If it has reached me it has reached others, it is simply a statistical likelyhood.

[Texasbulldogs]

Texas: I'm a pet owner and I do everything I can to help your breed...so, what am I?
Someone that owns a pet-that a trick question?
<O:p</O:p
I'm a little insulted by your post. I dedicate alot of time helping "your" breed.
What was there remotely to be insulted by? You’re not helping my breed as it’s not mine! If you don’t own the breed and spend your time “helping” it I’d say you have way too much free time and need to get a hobby. Why care for or claim to care for something you don’t even own, have experience with, etc? Seems to be much more productive things to consume ones life than worrying about something they don’t have.
<O:p</O:p
I have never owned your breed Texas, but I do fight for their rights to reside on the earth, be it as a pet, working dog, whatever. I personally do not need to own this breed to know how great the breed is. Also, I educate others. So, what category would you put me in?
Then if never owning it…why, allow such breed to consume so much of your time? I disagree with you claiming to “educate” others on it…impossible! Here I’ll play dumb guy looking for answers about the breed. Hey Michele, I’m looking into getting an APBT. What overall traits does the Bolio/Tombstone line produce? What do you know about Eli dogs and their traits? I’m thinking of doing Iron Dog competitions with my pit, so I want a dog that has natural wind-which bloodline lines? Are Eli dogs stupid, I heard that? I’m going on a limb and guessing you’re not going to be able to “educate” me on it. So are you truly educating someone on something or simply passing along information about the breed you’ve only read about, zero experience with, and don’t really know if it what you read was true, false, somewhat correct, out right lie, etc? <O:p</O:p
You may be a great pet owner and one that could benefit this site/breed? I don’t know just realize the majority will only help destroy it by their supposedly good deeds. There have been pet owners that were a part of this board years ago (and still are) like Idgie, Mia, JennKBM, Mydawg, etc. Nobody had a problem with them or that they were a “pet owner”. They came to learn and with an open-mind. A post got to be too much dog talk…they simply stopped reading, ignored it, or sat back and seen what could be learned from it. Sometimes even joined in with questions it provoked for them. Didn’t get all worked up over a stupid thread. Whine and complain to staff, on the board/thread, and every where else they could. That can’t be said for the typical pet owner though. Which is were the issues between the two groups lie! Always going to be exceptions to the rule, but the majority is as useless to the breed as PETA.

[bakerbt]

I really love this site. Petbull owners and doggers will never get along. I believe with alot of others that some dogs just cannot be pets. It also gets on my nerves when pet owners talk about loving the breed, but then cry about the culling process. As much BS that goes on here, this site has made a difference in peoples lives. This site has educated people on how to contain their dogs properly. It has also made responsible pet owners out of BYB's. I for one think this site has succeded in its purpose if it has even made one back yard breeder get their dogs fixed. I do not believe that this site is going to save our breed, but I do believe that it makes a difference for the better.

[Michele]

Texas: I'm a pet owner and I do everything I can to help your breed...so, what am I?
Someone that owns a pet-that a trick question?

It's not a trick question, I guess you just can't answer it.

<O:p</O:p
I'm a little insulted by your post. I dedicate alot of time helping "your" breed.
What was there remotely to be insulted by? You’re not helping my breed as it’s not mine! If you don’t own the breed and spend your time “helping” it I’d say you have way too much free time and need to get a hobby. Why care for or claim to care for something you don’t even own, have experience with, etc? Seems to be much more productive things to consume ones life than worrying about something they don’t have.

As far as having too much free time, I choose what I do with my time. And educating and fighting BSL are things that I choose to do with my time. You own this breed, don't you? Then shame on you for having such a cavalier/ I dont give a shit attitude.



<O:p</O:p
I have never owned your breed Texas, but I do fight for their rights to reside on the earth, be it as a pet, working dog, whatever. I personally do not need to own this breed to know how great the breed is. Also, I educate others. So, what category would you put me in?
Then if never owning it…why, allow such breed to consume so much of your time? I disagree with you claiming to “educate” others on it…impossible!

Since this breed, for the most part, is in the wrong hands, I came to this board and learned alot. At least I can educate the rights and wrongs to people who want to learn. It's not impossible.

Here I’ll play dumb guy looking for answers about the breed. Hey Michele, I’m looking into getting an APBT. What overall traits does the Bolio/Tombstone line produce? What do you know about Eli dogs and their traits? I’m thinking of doing Iron Dog competitions with my pit, so I want a dog that has natural wind-which bloodline lines? Are Eli dogs stupid, I heard that? I’m going on a limb and guessing you’re not going to be able to “educate” me on it. So are you truly educating someone on something or simply passing along information about the breed you’ve only read about, zero experience with, and don’t really know if it what you read was true, false, somewhat correct, out right lie, etc?

Oh please, an average Joe Schmo will never know about bloodlines. They just want a pit bull. And what's wrong with me telling Joe Schmo no, don't do it? And list every single thing that it entails? And what could possibly go wrong since the average Joe Schmo doesn't have a clue? And I can proudly say that I can give advice to the average Joe Schmo with all the education that I have gotten from this site. Give it a rest, will you.
<O:p</O:p
You may be a great pet owner and one that could benefit this site/breed? I don’t know just realize the majority will only help destroy it by their supposedly good deeds. There have been pet owners that were a part of this board years ago (and still are) like Idgie, Mia, JennKBM, Mydawg, etc. Nobody had a problem with them or that they were a “pet owner”. They came to learn and with an open-mind. A post got to be too much dog talk…they simply stopped reading, ignored it, or sat back and seen what could be learned from it. Sometimes even joined in with questions it provoked for them. Didn’t get all worked up over a stupid thread. Whine and complain to staff, on the board/thread, and every where else they could. That can’t be said for the typical pet owner though. Which is were the issues between the two groups lie! Always going to be exceptions to the rule, but the majority is as useless to the breed as PETA.
I have no problem reading threads here that deal with culling, etc. I learn from it. I guess I must be the exception to the rule. I don't whine to the staff, I don't complain to the staff.

[BoogiemanBlood]

Sorry to hear of your troubles Marty! The problem seems to lie within the direction the site was/has taken. Possibly time to reevaluate those chooses made and determine if they was correct, what needs to change and what needs to stay the same. I’ve enjoyed the site just knew along with others at the time in 2004-5 the direction a few was seeking for the board was going to be its ruin. Maybe the issues lies within it purpose…education? Is it really an “educational” site? I don’t believe so, not any more than any other board on the net. Just look at the educational information and compare it to everything else. Sad state of affairs when members and even staff seek “knowledge” and actual “dog talk” else where on other sites-should be a wake up call! As many have publicly stated such on this very board, seem to have unknowingly created a BS gathering place not a place to share and learn about the breed. <o>:p</o>:p

Trying to tailor a site to pet/rescue owners is much like giving your enemy all your ammo. Not going to do anything but cause yourself harm and what you’re fighting for (bulldogs)! When we as a community start catering to multi-breeds simply because the AR groups have made them one in the same, it’s a problem. Those aren’t the type one should be following their lead on! Ironic most of the older members (that have stuck around) have complained that it’s not the same site or feel on it, like it once was. Is that not a red flag for staff to find out what went wrong and correct it? Back then it was great, maybe much smaller…also much better and a true community. Didn’t need all the fluff crap, that ultimately serves zero purpose but as attractant to pet owners. When it was only a board and chat room…everything was heavily used. Rock mentioned no one ever uses the chat room these days…could that be, because it’s not a tight nit community anymore, and who wants to chat with most of the current members? When it was geared towards the bulldogs there was always someone in there to chat with, didn’t matter what time of the day. It wasn’t for dog talk, simply to get to know one another better on a personal basis though at times there was some dog talk. <o>:p</o>:p

We all realize there will never be a place for pet/rescue and bulldog owners to reside together. Most bulldog owner’s think of pet owners much like PETA and other AR groups-exterminators to the breed. Pet owners will never preserve this breed or help it, yet the board tailors to them. WHY? How can they help? When they’ve never owned it or experienced the greatness it is. They simply have a feed burner they believe is an APBT but will never know if they have a true representative. Sad, very sad down right pathetic! Not saying all pet owners are bad, have meet a few that are great. Problem is they’re few and far between. Most simply do more harm in their supposed “good deeds” than good and attract more unwanted pet owners to a working breed. All of which equals the ruins of a breed! Once the numbers became more, pet versus working owners…the board lost it greatness and from the sounds of it most lost their enjoyment with the boards along with that.<o>:p</o>:p

Now comes the time for the board to get its plug pulled or do a major overhaul. Who cares if it goes back to the basics, the board loses a thousand useless members, and it once again is a basic board with only a chat room? These mutts and even boards should be enjoyable-not a burden. Time to decide what’s important! Ones enjoyment, and a knowledgeable fun board, or simply a board with a false sense of “educating” that members go else where to seek knowledge and enjoyment. Never should be a time where members and staff (especially) feel if wanting to talk dogs or truly learn something, they have to go elsewhere. <o>:p</o>:p

Seems time to get back to the basics, do a major overhaul and lose the excessive expenses that have become a burden (financially and emotionally). Big deal if a thousand or more members leave…obviously they was only here for the fluff and to leech if not $hit on the board. Not like the board will really lose anything after all how many actual members really share anything or answer any questions of importance 15-20 out of how many hundreds, possibly thousands? The overall enjoyment should be the priority not number of members. Get the tight nit community atmosphere back, the enjoyment and information would return.your slander of pet owners and rescue people completely disregards the mission statment on the home page of this site. maybe you should make it one thousand and one leaving if you're that disgusted with things.

once again:

Pit Bull Community is dedicated to the preservation of the pit bull in its original form as a game-bred dog and in its modern incarnations as a loving companion pet and top competitor in weight pull competitions and conformation shows. We are opposed to all forms of animal cruelty, and do not promote any illegal activities, but we celebrate the history of the pit bull and value its qualities of courage, strength and tenacity as the essence of the breed. We are therefore against all forms of breed-specific legislation, and work to protect the constitutional rights of pit bull owners.

[AndrewPeabody]

I Am Sure I Am The Only One, But What The Heck Is A 'dogger'? Does It Have Something To Do W/ Byb? I Have Enjoyed Reading These Posts. I Am A Teacher And I Have A Ton Of Time In The Summer And I Have Spent, Probably 2-3 Hours A Day On Here Reading Posts. Some Posts I Have Read Have Been From 2004! I Find It Interesting And Helpful. Someone Explain A 'dogger' To Me.....a-man

[simms]

your slander of pet owners and rescue people completely disregards the mission statment on the home page of this site. maybe you should make it one thousand and one leaving if you're that disgusted with things.

once again:

Pit Bull Community is dedicated to the preservation of the pit bull in its original form as a game-bred dog and in its modern incarnations as a loving companion pet and top competitor in weight pull competitions and conformation shows. We are opposed to all forms of animal cruelty, and do not promote any illegal activities, but we celebrate the history of the pit bull and value its qualities of courage, strength and tenacity as the essence of the breed. We are therefore against all forms of breed-specific legislation, and work to protect the constitutional rights of pit bull owners. Texasbulldogs does contribute to this site. I dont beleive that he is offering a slanderous post.

I think we all need to work on how we respond and what we choose to respond too.

And on the up and up......No the average pet owner can not talk dogs with me. However I do have the ability to educate them selecitvly. In other words you can give them the key to your house if you like .....me I'm not so free hearted like that....LOL

[idgie]

I wrote the mission statement to go along with Shon's vision for the site. It's not written in stone. Marty's asking for input on the direction of the site, so it makes perfect sense to question the mission statement as well. It shouldn't be used to squelch people's thoughts on the future of the site.

Texasbulldogs was a huge contributor at one time, and it was a real blow to the site when he left. His opinions are very welcome here, as are Michele's.

[simms]

I wrote the mission statement to go along Shon's vision for the site. It's not written in stone. Marty's asking for input on the direction of the site, so it makes perfect sense to question the mission statement as well. It shouldn't be used to squelch people's thoughts on the future of the site.

Texasbulldogs was a huge contributor at one time, and it was a real blow to the site when he left. His opinions are very welcome here, as are Michelle's.

I agree!!!

[miakoda]

or sat back and seen what could be learned from it.
A big AMEN.

[Marty]

I wrote the mission statement to go along Shon's vision for the site. It's not written in stone. Marty's asking for input on the direction of the site, so it makes perfect sense to question the mission statement as well. It shouldn't be used to squelch people's thoughts on the future of the site.

Texasbulldogs was a huge contributor at one time, and it was a real blow to the site when he left. His opinions are very welcome here, as are Michele's.And we are so grateful for both of you all's help... Thanks Idgie and Texasbulldogs for your input and opinion is very much needed here ;)

[Texasbulldogs]

It's not a trick question, I guess you just can't answer it.
I thought I did with the “someone who owns a pet”?
<O:p</O:p
Since this breed, for the most part, is in the wrong hands, I came to this board and learned alot. At least I can educate the rights and wrongs to people who want to learn. It's not impossible.
Why would you come to this board to learn simply because the “breed is in the wrong hands”? I agree it is in the wrong hands-pet owners. I’m sure you have learnt a lot on the board trouble is…you lack the knowledge of firsthand experience to know if what was learnt is actually correct. A ton of misinformation is on this sight as well as correct. Where the issues become are you learning and passing along correct information or simply perpetuating lies? If never owning the breed how could you possible inform someone of their nature beyond the basic useless information? As with any breed this one has positives and negatives, just more negative for the typical owner.
<O:p</O:p
Oh please, an average Joe Schmo will never know about bloodlines.
What? That’s the first thing many read about and explore! Why do you think it’s always being talked about?


And list every single thing that it entails?
Oh how I’d love to hear all of that. PM me the information, please.
<O:p</O:p
And what could possibly go wrong since the average Joe Schmo doesn't have a clue? And I can proudly say that I can give advice to the average Joe Schmo with all the education that I have gotten from this site.
I’m sure you meant…”what could possible not go wrong?” Please don’t attempt to advice anyone based on information you’ve learnt from this site! It’s meant to teach owners of the breed the basics, not to inform people so they can strike out and attempt to educate the masses! See this is the trouble with pet owners…limited knowledge and out to educate others, yet still clueless themselves. Where the trouble lies between the pet and working owners! Please leave all “advise” to those with actual firsthand experience with the breed backed up with years of proven success.
<O:p</O:p
your slander of pet owners and rescue people completely disregards the mission statment on the home page of this site. maybe you should make it one thousand and one leaving if you're that disgusted with things.
LoL Oh brother, not you again! Hello in case you’re unaware all rules, mission statements, etc I was a part of along with Rock, Idgie, Rockstar, Shon, Marty, other staff members I can’t recall. Maybe if you’d once again do some research before hen pecking to find out the members that came up with such, you’d also become aware my stance has always been the same! Much like with everything else in this touchy feely world, the board has to be politically correct. But please humor me with how I “slandered” anyone! Don’t try and avoid the question like your known to do and then whine to staff when your poor little feelings get hurt when you’re told the truth. You’re the reason most dislike pet owners…always whining about something some did or typed.
<O:p</O:p
Neither this thread nor my reply was intended to insult anyone. It’s my opinion what is wrong with the site these days, direction it needs to head back in to reduce financial and emotional stress for its proprietors. Yet pet owners like you Boogieman are the reasons for such views and opinions I have on pet owners having this breed! Try following Michele’s lead and offer something, debate the actual topic if disagreeing, etc just stop the whining and made up crap you come up with!

[ghost 1]

Some food for thought: as has been stated the public is the reason for BSL why? They get a hold of these dogs knowing nothing about them letting them run lose killing other dogs/cats and causing all sorts of problems for the rest of the breed. Why I ask you do you not think they need to be educated?

Yes I wish the general public had never got there hands on them but now that they do they should not be educated on what they should and should not do? that's crazy.

I for one am all about trying to help the public be aware of there mistakes as that's why the site was started to begin with. if you think they don't need our help why should we continue that is my question to you.

So who is causing the problems for the breed? and what should we as a Community do about it? just sit back and watch the breed die out?
THATS MY BIGGEST FEAR MARTY

ALTHOUGH I'LL HAVE THEM TILL THE DAY I DIE

[ghost 1]

your slander of pet owners and rescue people completely disregards the mission statment on the home page of this site. maybe you should make it one thousand and one leaving if you're that disgusted with things.

once again:

Pit Bull Community is dedicated to the preservation of the pit bull in its original form as a game-bred dog and in its modern incarnations as a loving companion pet and top competitor in weight pull competitions and conformation shows. We are opposed to all forms of animal cruelty, and do not promote any illegal activities, but we celebrate the history of the pit bull and value its qualities of courage, strength and tenacity as the essence of the breed. We are therefore against all forms of breed-specific legislation, and work to protect the constitutional rights of pit bull owners.
BUT MARTY ASK FOR SUGGESTIONS AND A DOGGER RESPONDED BOOGIEMAN WITH A FEW SUGGESTIONS,,,, TEX HAS BEEN HERE FOR A LONG TIME

[ghost 1]

It's not a trick question, I guess you just can't answer it.
I thought I did with the “someone who owns a pet”?
<O:p</O:p
Since this breed, for the most part, is in the wrong hands, I came to this board and learned alot. At least I can educate the rights and wrongs to people who want to learn. It's not impossible.
Why would you come to this board to learn simply because the “breed is in the wrong hands”? I agree it is in the wrong hands-pet owners. I’m sure you have learnt a lot on the board trouble is…you lack the knowledge of firsthand experience to know if what was learnt is actually correct. A ton of misinformation is on this sight as well as correct. Where the issues become are you learning and passing along correct information or simply perpetuating lies? If never owning the breed how could you possible inform someone of their nature beyond the basic useless information? As with any breed this one has positives and negatives, just more negative for the typical owner.
<O:p</O:p
Oh please, an average Joe Schmo will never know about bloodlines.
What? That’s the first thing many read about and explore! Why do you think it’s always being talked about?


And list every single thing that it entails?
Oh how I’d love to hear all of that. PM me the information, please.
<O:p</O:p
And what could possibly go wrong since the average Joe Schmo doesn't have a clue? And I can proudly say that I can give advice to the average Joe Schmo with all the education that I have gotten from this site.
I’m sure you meant…”what could possible not go wrong?” Please don’t attempt to advice anyone based on information you’ve learnt from this site! It’s meant to teach owners of the breed the basics, not to inform people so they can strike out and attempt to educate the masses! See this is the trouble with pet owners…limited knowledge and out to educate others, yet still clueless themselves. Where the trouble lies between the pet and working owners! Please leave all “advise” to those with actual firsthand experience with the breed backed up with years of proven success.
<O:p</O:p
your slander of pet owners and rescue people completely disregards the mission statment on the home page of this site. maybe you should make it one thousand and one leaving if you're that disgusted with things.
LoL Oh brother, not you again! Hello in case you’re unaware all rules, mission statements, etc I was a part of along with Rock, Idgie, Rockstar, Shon, Marty, other staff members I can’t recall. Maybe if you’d once again do some research before hen pecking to find out the members that came up with such, you’d also become aware my stance has always been the same! Much like with everything else in this touchy feely world, the board has to be politically correct. But please humor me with how I “slandered” anyone! Don’t try and avoid the question like your known to do and then whine to staff when your poor little feelings get hurt when you’re told the truth. You’re the reason most dislike pet owners…always whining about something some did or typed.
<O:p</O:p
Neither this thread nor my reply was intended to insult anyone. It’s my opinion what is wrong with the site these days, direction it needs to head back in to reduce financial and emotional stress for its proprietors. Yet pet owners like you Boogieman are the reasons for such views and opinions I have on pet owners having this breed! Try following Michele’s lead and offer something, debate the actual topic if disagreeing, etc just stop the whining and made up crap you come up with!
TEX==GOOD POST==

I LIKE WHEN YOU POST IT'S LIKE A LOGICAL DEBATE,,,:D

[BoogiemanBlood]

your slander of pet owners and rescue people completely disregards the mission statment on the home page of this site. maybe you should make it one thousand and one leaving if you're that disgusted with things.
LoL Oh brother, not you again! Hello in case you’re unaware all rules, mission statements, etc I was a part of along with Rock, Idgie, Rockstar, Shon, Marty, other staff members I can’t recall. Maybe if you’d once again do some research before hen pecking to find out the members that came up with such, you’d also become aware my stance has always been the same! Much like with everything else in this touchy feely world, the board has to be politically correct. But please humor me with how I “slandered” anyone! Don’t try and avoid the question like your known to do and then whine to staff when your poor little feelings get hurt when you’re told the truth. You’re the reason most dislike pet owners…always whining about something some did or typed.
<o>:p</o>:p
Neither this thread nor my reply was intended to insult anyone. It’s my opinion what is wrong with the site these days, direction it needs to head back in to reduce financial and emotional stress for its proprietors. Yet pet owners like you Boogieman are the reasons for such views and opinions I have on pet owners having this breed! Try following Michele’s lead and offer something, debate the actual topic if disagreeing, etc just stop the whining and made up crap you come up with! i thought the exact same thing when i read all the crap you post. LOL Oh brother, not you again! the only debate i'll give you is this, if you had such a big hand in the writing of the mission statement then why the hell didn't you voice your opinions and not put the parts about, pets, confirmation, weight pull, etc etc in it? then you want to come bitch that is what is bringing the site down. i didn't whine about anything, you seem to read way too many emotions into things there tex. just because somebody doesn't agree with the almighty know all tex they are a whiner and cry baby. LOL like i said your opinion of me has never mattered nor made me lose sleep.

you say good pet owners are far and few between........don't ever forget the same holds true for real dogmen, and i wouldn't be so quick to include yourself in the good ones if i was you.

now i'll put the famous disclaimer: Neither this thread nor my reply was intended to insult anyone. It’s my opinion what is wrong with the site these days, direction it needs to head back in to reduce financial and emotional stress for its proprietors. Yet doggers like you Texasbulldogs are the reasons for such views and opinions I have on doggers against pet owners! Try following Michele’s lead and offer something, debate the actual topic if disagreeing, etc just stop the whining and made up crap you come up with!

[bakerbt]

i thought the exact same thing when i read all the crap you post. LOL Oh brother, not you again! the only debate i'll give you is this, if you had such a big hand in the writing of the mission statement then why the hell didn't you voice your opinions and not put the parts about, pets, confirmation, weight pull, etc etc in it? then you want to come bitch that is what is bringing the site down. i didn't whine about anything, you seem to read way too many emotions into things there tex. just because somebody doesn't agree with the almighty know all tex they are a whiner and cry baby. LOL like i said your opinion of me has never mattered nor made me lose sleep.

you say good pet owners are far and few between........don't ever forget the same holds true for real dogmen, and i wouldn't be so quick to include yourself in the good ones if i was you.

now i'll put the famous disclaimer: Neither this thread nor my reply was intended to insult anyone. It’s my opinion what is wrong with the site these days, direction it needs to head back in to reduce financial and emotional stress for its proprietors. Yet doggers like you Texasbulldogs are the reasons for such views and opinions I have on doggers against pet owners! Try following Michele’s lead and offer something, debate the actual topic if disagreeing, etc just stop the whining and made up crap you come up with!BB is their a person on the site you have not argued with. This site would be alot better with more people like Texas on here. You are always the one whining and complaining. Yes the mission statement says alot. This is a community with people with different beliefs, but please explain how you help preserve the breed? This site started having problems when people like you got on here being a smart ass to game dog owners. Texasbulldogs knows bulldogs and you should feel grateful he shares his knowledge of dogs to the community, but instead you whine and complain like a big baby with everyone. Do you really think your posts are more educational and helpful than Texasbulldogs are? Please. This site lost alot of information and knowledge when he left. Please explain what it gained when you joined besides more arguements and name calling? This is a great site. I just wish people would take the time to learn instead of just posting just to post and argue.

[BoogiemanBlood]

BB is their a person on the site you have not argued with. This site would be alot better with more people like Texas on here. You are always the one whining and complaining. Yes the mission statement says alot. This is a community with people with different beliefs, but please explain how you help preserve the breed? This site started having problems when people like you got on here being a smart ass to game dog owners. Texasbulldogs knows bulldogs and you should feel grateful he shares his knowledge of dogs to the community, but instead you whine and complain like a big baby with everyone. Do you really think your posts are more educational and helpful than Texasbulldogs are? Please. This site lost alot of information and knowledge when he left. Please explain what it gained when you joined besides more arguements and name calling? This is a great site. I just wish people would take the time to learn instead of just posting just to post and argue.lol you can kiss his ass all you want to. i already stated my case. can't you read? it's right there in english. the same language you typed in. simply put if you don't want the pet owners, change the mission statement, ask them all to leave or ban them or quit bitching about them being here. it's pretty damn simple and clear in my eyes. go find examples all you want of me "arguing with doggers" the only dogger i've ever argued with is tex and it was about his degrading attitude as he ALWAYS has. so see previous post about not losing any sleep baker cuz it applies to you too.

[GAPITS]

I have to say that I for one was glad to see Texas come back to the site and participate as he was greatly missed while he was gone. You may not always like what he has to say, but you can count on one thing. He will not be made to walk around the subject at hand and will always give you his honest opinion.

There will always be a division between petbull and doggers and that is not going to change, relax and maybe we can all learn something new.

This site has always been dedicated and geared toward the working aspect of the APBT and that should not change. There are a thousand petbull, rescue, and non-working dog sites out there if you are more to that liking then maybe one of those would be better. If you are willing to learn and not be so one sided then please stay and enjoy the ride as there is much to learn here. There are many great people here with a wealth of knowledge and alot of them are willing to share if approached respectfully.

[bakerbt]

I am not going to argue with you because it is against the rules. Just do a poll to see who is wanted here more you or Texas. Guess who would win. I have no problems with pet owners being here. I even enjoy most of their post and like that they ask questions and want to learn. I just have a problem with people like you always causing drama on the internet. This is an educational site like Marty said. People like Texas actually educate with their posts unlike some. Your dogs look like they are well taken care of and you seem like a responsible pet owner. I just don't understand why you argue with so many people. Do you already know so much about these dogs that you cannot learn anything and are the only one that can educate the community. Why be the drama queen more often than not?

[BoogiemanBlood]

There will always be a division between petbull and doggers and that is not going to change, relax and maybe we can all learn something new.

This site has always been dedicated and geared toward the working aspect of the APBT and that should not change. There are a thousand petbull, rescue, and non-working dog sites out there if you are more to that liking then maybe one of those would be better. If you are willing to learn and not be so one sided then please stay and enjoy the ride as there is much to learn here. There are many great people here with a wealth of knowledge and alot of them are willing to share if approached respectfully.first off let me make it clear. i have absolutely nothing against doggers, working dogs, the history of the breed, or any aspect of the true APBT. you have NEVER seen me bash a dogger here. i may have commented on peoples stupidity discussing matching in the present, but not bash doggers. i have learned alot since i joined and there are people here who really give great advice. many a pet owners eyes have been opened by this site, but for whatever reason, even though it clearly welcomes you as a pet owner on the home page, certain individuals can't accept that anybody owns a bulldog as a pet. that's not the bad part. it's always got to be a degrading downtalk to pet owners out of the same certain people. like i said, change the site or deal with the pet people. it's pretty simple IMO. till that happens the b.s. of running down pet owners, saying stupid shit like they have nothing to offer the breed, comparing them to AR people and PETA members should stop. gee i guess the humble one doesn't see that as degrading or insulting. it's simple. you don't have to be a dick and i for one won't be talked to that way without responding. sorry if anybody doesn't agree with it. no drama about it, it's called standing up for yourself and your beliefs.

[bakerbt]

I have to say that I for one was glad to see Texas come back to the site and participate as he was greatly missed while he was gone. You may not always like what he has to say, but you can count on one thing. He will not be made to walk around the subject at hand and will always give you his honest opinion.

There will always be a division between petbull and doggers and that is not going to change, relax and maybe we can all learn something new.

This site has always been dedicated and geared toward the working aspect of the APBT and that should not change. There are a thousand petbull, rescue, and non-working dog sites out there if you are more to that liking then maybe one of those would be better. If you are willing to learn and not be so one sided then please stay and enjoy the ride as there is much to learn here. There are many great people here with a wealth of knowledge and alot of them are willing to share if approached respectfully.Great post and the majority of the community feels the same way as you. This is a great educational site that is geared towards working dogs. Anybody is welcomed, but it does not change the fact that it is geared towards working dogs. This site is great and I hate to see it destroyed by a few people that have ego problems.

[BoogiemanBlood]

This site is great and I hate to see it destroyed by a few people that have ego problems.you hit the nail on the head there. we finally agree on something.

[GAPITS]

Just like you, we have a right to voice our opinions also.

You must realize that as long time dog people the norm for us is that alot (not all and I am not trying to offend anyone) of petbull owners are in some way connected to or of similar beliefs to Peta and the rest of the terrorist groups out there. We are tired of people talking to us like we are horrible monsters abusing the rights of what they call 4 legged humans.

The mission statement is not something that is written in stone like Idgie said and should be taken as a mission not a law, if you do nothing more than make waves here maybe it's not the place for you. It always has been a pla