indian bolio/zebo men biters?

[kane85]

Iam doing this thread to ask a qustion to all you dogmen and dogwemon on famous dogs that were men biters but were grate dogs in the [ ] and of there time I just want get opinions on this. You know how no good dogmen or women would tolerate a men biter in there yard right well you have herd the storys of bolio and zebo how they were men biters what would you of done if you went back in time or pretend that you were the ones that raise these dogs and noticed that this was a problem what were you of done or even with these new ones iam not saying they are but just pretend like macho buck or mayday would you tolerate a man biter or would you try to correct it or culled them I just want on what people would do. Hopefully people understand what iam trying to say

[14rock]

If the stories are true, I would of never known their ability, as they would of been culled at the first major sign of human-aggression.

[miakoda]

I've got several Bolio dogs & none of them are HA whatsoever. Personally, I'd cull them in a heartbeat if they were. It's people over dogs.....Period.

[MinorThreat]

PP has said many times he never saw any human aggression in Bolio when he had him

TG said he never saw any human aggression in Chinaman when he had him as an old dog.

People like to talk, mostly people that are jealous they dont have something of equal quality, so they talk trash.

if they didnt bite in combat, they would more then not be kept. Dogs in the past were not bred to sell pups on the net as pets and didnt end up running around backyards without being contained, so they werent a threat to bite anyone. Dogs were bred by dogmen and kept by dogmen.

times are different now, mainly the internet, it changed everything

[jaystreetsA4]

all the bolio dogs ive met were good natured well tempered dogs.

[PirbulBongo]

I always wondered if dogs like Bolio,Zebo,Bullyson known for being man bitters maybe were bad educated/socialized or even if they had bad experiences with humans and resulted on this HA.

I dont believe on dogs just being human agressive for no reason, but i agree on the culling thing.

[kane85]

Iam not saying all bollio dogs would be bred like that iam just talking about indian bollio and zebo there dog men tolerated it would you even if you knew what it could do in the pit. Today there are dog men that tolerate a men biter in there yard and iam just saying to pertend if you owned one of these dogs(indin bolio or zebo) would you of culled them.

[Searcy Jeff]

iam just saying to pertend if you owned one of these dogs(indin bolio or zebo) would you of culled them. That depends if we knew about the quality of these dogs before or after human aggression had surfaced.

[BoiBoi]

Iam not saying all bollio dogs would be bred like that iam just talking about indian bollio and zebo there dog men tolerated it would you even if you knew what it could do in the pit. Today there are dog men that tolerate a men biter in there yard and iam just saying to pertend if you owned one of these dogs(indin bolio or zebo) would you of culled them.
everyone has their own opinion on this matter, some people would keep the dog because of the results they see in the [ ] and others wouldn't tolerate this behavior at all. To tell u the truth im not sure what i would do if i had one of those great match dogs that turned out to be HA. I want to say that i would cull it but when u look at the generations of great dogs that bolio or zebo have produced and the fact that the HA trait wasn't passed on then u begin to think maybe u shouldn't cull that dog. I think breeding the dogs and seeing what the offspring amount to will determine if those dogs should be culled or not, but then have to figure out a way to keep that HA dog secure and away from people, man i think thats probably too much work for the average person, but someone that is dedicated to the dogs could get away with it

[pittbullky]

i run alot of bolio dogs and i have been to mr.patricks yard a few times never heard of bolio bein a man eater but zebo proved himself time and time again to be

[Atwater27]

i run alot of bolio dogs and i have been to mr.patricks yard a few times never heard of bolio bein a man eater but zebo proved himself time and time again to beInteresting

Did any of Zebo's offspring turn out to be HA as well?

[ABK]

I only recently heard that Bolio was a man-biter. Not only did he bite, but allegedly he went after a child w/ severe malice. That is supposedly why Bennet got rid of him.

As for PP, of course he didn't say anything about it. Is that something you're going to breing up? "Oh BTW, my main stud dog almost killed a kid?" No.

Or maybe it was a one time thing. Maybe the kid did something to trigger the aggression - i.e. staring in the face/eyes, teasing, etc. After PP got the dog, he was removed out of the envoronment & the problem never re-surfaced.

As for Zebo, he wasn't a man "eater" but he was a man-biter. His biting however was territorial &/or protective in nature, it was not random or malicious in any way.

A lot of ppl like to portray Zebo as some kind of unstable "man eating" monster, but if you will read historical accounts of him, the opposite seems to be true. His biting appears to be very predicable & seems to take place only when he is protecting his master or a stranger invades his chain spot.

And no, none of his offspring were biters, although some of the modern day dogs can be protective.

[PirbulBongo]

Maybe those dogmen kept litters of those "known" man bitters to see if this trait passed on offspring or was just a bad behaviour for lack of education/socialization with strangers, kids, or other bad experiences?

I dont believe on dogs being agressive just because they are but for bad handling/experiences, now i dont know if those traits can be past offspring but im curious to know too, im just a novice.

[ABK]

From what I understand, dog men back them kept most fo what they bred.

As for the heritiability of such traits, I have heard it said many times that 80% of pups will inherit the temprament of the dam, not the sire.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have seen it in German Shepherds. I had a GSD once that was off a spooky dam & he was spooky as well. I later found out the dam's dam was a spook too. So we had 3 generations of spooks.

[PirbulBongo]

That makes sense then, i doubt any old dogmen woulda filled his kennel with litters of man bitters, if this trait passed offspring they prolly got culled.

[screamin'eagle]

As for the heritiability of such traits, I have heard it said many times that 80% of pups will inherit the temprament of the dam, not the sire.

I have heard something similiar to this, but I think this is as much from socialization within the litter as it is from genetics. Probably the pups taken from the litter too soon arre the ones that don't take on the dams temperment.

[ABK]

This could be. I know many, many old dog men believe that the pups get the temprament from the dam, but they may just be mirroring what they have learned from her.

[Old Timer]

i have said it once and i will say it again.i will never tolerate a man biter regardless of pit ability.

[MinorThreat]

PP wont bring up Bolio being a man biter, just the same as you ABK justifying Zebo for the man eater he was because you have Zebo dogs. Dont be so hypocritical

funny how nobody who owns Bolio bred dogs ever have man biters (ABK) go figure hah.

[miakoda]

PP wont bring up Bolio being a man biter, just the same as you ABK justifying Zebo for the man eater he was because you have Zebo dogs. Dont be so hypocritical

funny how nobody who owns Bolio bred dogs ever have man biters (ABK) go figure hah.
Why would I lie about it? I've got Bolio bred dogs & NO they are not manbiters. They have never shown an inkling of HA in any type of handling. And if one did, I would put it down just as we shot an amazingly bred waited-for-this-dog-for over-4-years kind of dog (Boudreaux) when he sank his canines into my upper right thigh for doing nothing more than being in his chain space & shushing him for his constant screaming at the other dogs. That bite landed me a 3 day stay at the hospital (I was pregnant & had an allergic rxn to an antiobiotic). My neighbor shot him that night.

I know everyone has different values in their lives, but my family comes before ANY dog regardless of working ability. Period. It's not worth it.

[realonebulldog]

Why would I lie about it? I've got Bolio bred dogs & NO they are not manbiters. They have never shown an inkling of HA in any type of handling. And if one did, I would put it down just as we shot an amazingly bred waited-for-this-dog-for over-4-years kind of dog (Boudreaux) when he sank his canines into my upper right thigh for doing nothing more than being in his chain space & shushing him for his constant screaming at the other dogs. That bite landed me a 3 day stay at the hospital (I was pregnant & had an allergic rxn to an antiobiotic). My neighbor shot him that night.

I know everyone has different values in their lives, but my family comes before ANY dog regardless of working ability. Period. It's not worth it. Good Post.I cannot understand W H Y somebody must discuss this. Manbiter = dead dog. This is crystal clear and very simple to understand. the point is: No other dog race is so friendly to persons as real Bulldogs.... ;)

[Highbloodbulldog]

Both were men-biter, Indian bolio and Adams' Zebo.. this is very clear...

Some today's bulldogs, descedent from Bolio or Zebo, are men-biter as well...

I have some dogs that are man-biter and very impressive performance bulldogs... I don't like to hide the truth inside political and/or wrong informations...

Jonas Klaus
(High Blood Bulldogs)

[realonebulldog]

Both were men-biter, Indian bolio and Adams' Zebo.. this is very clear...

Some today's bulldogs, descedent from Bolio or Zebo, are men-biter as well...

I have some dogs that are man-biter and very impressive performance bulldogs... I don't like to hide the truth inside political and/or wrong informations...

Jonas Klaus
(High Blood Bulldogs) I f you bred man-biter then you are a part of the whole problem. To do this is a death-sin. You know Zebo and Bolio well? Did they bite you? Jonas its not about right or wrong informations. Its about right or wrong doing. And if you bred man-biter and call the offspring High-Blood-Bulldogs......well thats just stupid. :(

[Texasbulldogs]

You know how no good dogmen or women would tolerate a men biter in there yard right
Please name one (yes only one) dogmen/women that “wouldn’t tolerate a man biter”. Hello, if no one “tolerated” such…there wouldn’t be canines! Nothing wrong with a dog that will protect it territory/owner. Trouble arises when people are clueless to the difference between a protective dog, and a legitimate “man-eater”. The later only one in a million will ever see in their life-time!


well you have herd the storys of bolio and zebo how they were men biters what would you of done if you went back in time or pretend that you were the ones that raise these dogs and noticed that this was a problem what were you of done
I would of petted them one the head and enjoy my time with them like any other dog! Now if you’re trying to say they were “man-eaters” you’d be inaccurate. Big deal a dog is protective of its property/owner. Was either of them “man-eaters”? NO! How are we sure? Just look at the facts-real simple. Each dog mentioned above changed hands numerous times. Webmistress mentioned her experience with Bolio in another thread. If one believes he was stolen…definitely can say he wasn’t a “man-eater”. Now Zebo, most have read all about him and his biting habits. Does that equal him deserving the title “man-eater”? Hell no! After all he was Lester’s house dog…not something a “man-eater” could ever be. The confusion always stems from individuals lack of understanding the terminology and what constitutes as a man-eater. By most peoples definition we need to cull the entire world of canines.


Tip of the day: If someone doesn’t want to risk the possibilities of having a man biter. Get a pet rock or rock yard is desiring more than one pet!

[Bullyson]

As far as the HA trait being passed down I couldnt say. We've got a line of very tightly bred Bullyson stock and NONE of them are HA at all. There have been a few that could only be handled by one person several years ago and they were managed accordingly. The two dogs that we had who were man-biters were MONSTERS when the right time came and thats the only reason they stayed around. Thats a tough call. If a dogs really good at what he does its hard to say "cull it". Some of the top producers in the world were man biters but there are still offspring off of that blood running around so someone somewhere made the decision not to cull. If there is a dog that comes after a child, thats a cull NO MATTER WHAT. Just IMO.

[realonebulldog]

If there is a dog that comes after a child, thats a cull NO MATTER WHAT. Just IMO. Then you have to cull EVERY manbiter. Or would you make a difference between manbiter and childbiter?

[pennsooner]

You know how no good dogmen or women would tolerate a men biter in there yard right
Please name one (yes only one) dogmen/women that “wouldn’t tolerate a man biter”. Hello, if no one “tolerated” such…there wouldn’t be canines! Nothing wrong with a dog that will protect it territory/owner. Trouble arises when people are clueless to the difference between a protective dog, and a legitimate “man-eater”. The later only one in a million will ever see in their life-time!


well you have herd the storys of bolio and zebo how they were men biters what would you of done if you went back in time or pretend that you were the ones that raise these dogs and noticed that this was a problem what were you of done
I would of petted them one the head and enjoy my time with them like any other dog! Now if you’re trying to say they were “man-eaters” you’d be inaccurate. Big deal a dog is protective of its property/owner. Was either of them “man-eaters”? NO! How are we sure? Just look at the facts-real simple. Each dog mentioned above changed hands numerous times. Webmistress mentioned her experience with Bolio in another thread. If one believes he was stolen…definitely can say he wasn’t a “man-eater”. Now Zebo, most have read all about him and his biting habits. Does that equal him deserving the title “man-eater”? Hell no! After all he was Lester’s house dog…not something a “man-eater” could ever be. The confusion always stems from individuals lack of understanding the terminology and what constitutes as a man-eater. By most peoples definition we need to cull the entire world of canines.


Tip of the day: If someone doesn’t want to risk the possibilities of having a man biter. Get a pet rock or rock yard is desiring more than one pet!











IF the published accounts are true, the Zebo was an unstable, dangerous dog. He (supposedly) tore the crap out of a young boy and damn near got shot for it (as he should have been).

A lot of people don't want to cull dangerous dogs because it might cost them some $$$$$ so they redefine dangerous down to where only the most super aggressive dog that is trying to attack EVERYONE it sees qualifys for the title. Since Zebo nearly killed a child THAT for sure qualifys to me as a dangerous, unstable dog. Some people like real protective, one person dogs. If you choose to breed those types of dogs, then you for sure should NEVER, EVER let one out of your hands if you aren't inclined to cull them. Because even someone you trust might breed that dog and then be less careful about placing them. And then you get dangerous dogs in the hands of the general public.

If you have dog like Zebo, and it NEVER comes in to contact with anyone unless under YOUR direct supervision and you keep ALL pups off of every breeding that is one thing. But the margin of error for a dog like that is very very small and unless you can be sure such a dog will never be in a position to hurt someone (and the breed overall) then don't breed those sorts of dogs, or let them live for that matter.

That goes to a lesser degree for dogs that will redirect when aroused, but "protective" Pitbulls are playing with fire. Some folks have a ready supply of asbestos gloves and can get away with playing with fire but get careless for just a second and............. there is your headline.

I recall reading where during his entire breeding program John Colby only had to cull one dog due to problems with human aggression so some iines do seem way less prone to being "protective" and in a Pitbull, IMO thats for the best. And I am aware of one breeder at least who breeds game-line dogs and selects for "protective" tempement and sells a LOT of dogs to the general public. IMO, that sucks.

[Texasbulldogs]

IF the published accounts are true, the Zebo was an unstable, dangerous dog. He (supposedly) tore the crap out of a young boy and damn near got shot for it (as he should have been).
How was he unstable? Lester never had any problems with him, only time anything happened is when people refused to listen to his advice in regards to him. Grady didn’t either and Adam’s didn’t have a problem with him…problem came when he didn’t follow the golden rule; never allow a kid to be unsupervised around a dog! Still wouldn’t of gotten rid of him but the boss (wife) said he had to. Neither did Mr. J a problem with Zebo nor the numerous people that breed to him. So was it him and his genetics or simply complacency and lack of training? All realize most bulldogs simply rot on their chains and can’t even do something as simple as walk on a leash. Sure many can do well with that and have no issues…yet some can’t nor desire to! Bored dogs will take its anger and frustrations out of whatever is available. Some dig, some chew everything, some bite, some bark excessively, etc. The bottom line it has nothing to do with the dog and/or its genetic traits, simply the human factor and their errors.
Amazing how most claim to care for and enjoy this breed, yet they’re always yelling CULL. Never once taking blame or into account simple behavioral traits they created by man. To selfish and ignorant to seek the correct answers and simply go with the cop out way-cull. Yet it’s 99.9% of the time something the human created, not a “problem” within the dog or its traits. They don’t meet a performance/gameness standard-CULL. If one has behavioral problems…correct it or seek professional help to do such!

[ABK]

From what I understand, Zebo never "nearly killed a kid & almost got shot for it." That allegedly was Bolio who did that, not Zebo. Zebo DID bite a child, but from what I understand the quote was "bit him pretty good" not "almost killed him"

Furthermore, Zebo's life was never in danger. Mrs. A. forced Mr. A. to sell the him. Mr. A. wanted to keep Zebo, which leads me to believe there may have been more to his biting incident than we were told. For all we know, the Adams kid could have been out there teasing Zebo.

See this is why we have to be careful. One person tells another & that person tells another & that person tells another & before you know it what started out as a Zebo bit a kid & had to get re-homed turns into Zebo is a slavering kid-killing monster who was almost put down.

Bottom line - was Zebo unstable? I don't think so. All his bites were predictable. Furthermore, if he were unstable so many men both whom he knew & didn't know couldn't have handled him.

From what I read he seems like more of a protective dog, not an unstable one. In training terms his temprament would be called "sharp" & is actually desired in some dog sports.

As for Bolio, I cannot speak on him as I do not know much about him or his history.

[MinorThreat]

without knowing much about him or his history as you say, you have made claims about Bolio as being a man biter

you never personally knew Zebo or Bolio, your views on either dog are equal and none carry any more validity then anyone else posting the thread that... like you...lack hands on experience with the two

[ABK]

Actually if you will read my previous thread, I asked if Bolio was a man-biter I never said Bolio was a man-biter. It was highbloodbulldogs who said he WAS a man-biter, not me.

Furthermore when ever we were discussing Bolio & biting, if you will look closely, I always used the word "alleged" or "supposedly" b/c I don't know if he really bit that kid or not.

And yes, you are correct, I do not have "hands-on" experince w/ either dog. But all one has to do is study the text on Zebo or ask folks who knew him & you can obtain all the info you need to know.

[miakoda]

If it has teeth, it can and will bite.

[jeeperino]

It all depends on the situation IMO. A nasty man eater that is unpredictable would not live an extra minute on my yard. An excite type biter is fine with me as long as its predictable and not with malice towards me. That is JMHO.

[BoiBoi]

i just realized almost first hand how people can, with total disregard for others safety, keep a totally HA dog around and refuse to put it down. My neighbor has a "pitbull" that is extremely HA, he has already bitten 2 people, one the lawn guy and the other a close friend of the owners. The dog also charges everyone including my mother who would be defenseless against an attack, and my other neighbors yound children. The people refuse to put him down for what reason i dont know, but that right there can show u how even a worthless dog is kept alive for no reason at all, could u imagine if someone like that had a zebo or bolio, there would be no way in hell that dog would ever be put down if it was worth that much. To me the owners of the zebo and bolio type pitdogs of the past were just selfish to keep them around, assuming that they were indeed manbiters

[mydawgs]

I think homework on this one should be very focused and on point. I believe the doggers that say there were and are a very minute part of the bulldog population (game APBTs) that are truely HA.

I think it is way more likely that a high drive, alpha dog is more likely to be asserting him/her self as the dominant animal in the pack rather than just being down right viscous to humans.

There are a multitude of human errors that will enable this type of behavior in any dog, but produces rather devastating results in a PB dog.(say vs a chi)

And dogs that get very excited are likely candidates for this kind of stereotyping as well.....like Mia said if it has teeth, it can and will bite - the challange is to fairly assess why.

[Highbloodbulldog]

I f you bred man-biter then you are a part of the whole problem. To do this is a death-sin. You know Zebo and Bolio well? Did they bite you? Jonas its not about right or wrong informations. Its about right or wrong doing. And if you bred man-biter and call the offspring High-Blood-Bulldogs......well thats just stupid. :(
Yes I understant your view point, but I said I HAVE some men-biter bulldogs... didn't told that I BREED them...

Well... In Brazil I still didn't saw one single dog with considerable Zebo blood that isn't agressive against humans... of course that is not many of them, just a few...

I never was attacked by one of my dogs, but some of them can't be handle by any stranger... unfortunatelly my best bitch is very agressive, this is bacause I never bred her, and when I will do, I will not sell the dogs to everyone... if you get some informations about me, you'll know that I don't want to make money with my dogs... so I don't sell dogs to everyone who have money, only for experienced breeders... This IS NOT "JUST STUPID"...

Doing what is right? Absolutely right!

Thank you.

[Highbloodbulldog]

I really don't think that Zebo was unstable... an agressive dog not necessairly is unstable... so, isn't dangerous too, in hands of some responsible owner/breeder.

I told and tell you all again... both Zebo and Bolio was agressive against human kind... you are missing the point, if a dog attack jut ONE human or try to do that, HE IS agressive, Chinaman was one too, but not against all humans of course... sounds like hipocrisy when someone consider a dog not human agressive because of his own experience with the dog in question that wasn't agressive against him... in my point of view a dog who's agressive can be called as men-biter as well... I don't think you need to see him biting somebody to tell "How, he is men-biter..."

Thank you.

[Highbloodbulldog]

HERE THE HISTORY OF ADAMS' GR. CH. ZEBO ROM, only to helps :)


(.....) Zebo's most noted match was against Ch. Greaser and how both sides thought they had trapped the other side by running in an "ace" on their opponent’s "average" dog. How wrong they both were. Champion Zebo was the black dog and Champion Greaser was the brindle. How they came to meet on a cool night in a barn in Ohio, is a complicated but interesting story. Champion Greaser was being campaigned at 44 pounds in and around Oklahoma and Champion Zebo was being matched around North Carolina at 40 pounds. "Greaser" was an extremely smart defensive type of dog that could really bite. He’d gained his deserved reputation by proving this in his first four matches against dogs that were not pushovers. Likewise, so had Zebo. The difference being Zebo’s matches were short ones, lasting only 22,26,17 and 33 minutes, all kills. After his fourth win, a man named Adams bought Zebo and took him back up north to Ohio. Adams had a friend named Hudson who had matched a dog at 44 pounds into a father and son team from St. Louis. Hudson’s dog was from Maurice Carver, and was a two time winner at 44 pounds named Tex. Hudson was a nice fellow but, could really get on your nerves bragging so much on his dog, because it was Tex this and Tex that, for as long as you would listen. I guess the team from St. Louis got tired of listening and just figured they would whip old Tex and shut Hudson up. Now, when you matched into this father and son team, you had better do three things, get a good dog, have the dog in good shape, and say your favorite prayer. As luck, or fate, or whatever you desire to call it goes, Tex got hurt in a chain fight and Hudson was going to have to pay the forfeit. Rather than give away money, he called Adams and offered Adams a deal. If Adams would take over the match with Zebo and win, Hudson would split the winnings with him and, if he lost Hudson would pay the whole bet. Adams had been walking Zebo and cutting his weight, for at that time there was a big convention in Mexico being matched up and Adams had turned Zebo’s weight in. The Mexican Convention was supposed to be the biggest and best ever put on but, the law intervened and it never did come about. Adams didn’t know the convention would fall apart, but he thought that as he had almost three months until the Mexican convention and Tex’s match was only three weeks away, that he could take over Tex’s match and win without getting hurt too much and still be healthy and set Zebo down in the Mexican convention. So, he agreed to take over the match, but told his backer that if Zebo wasn’t way ahead at 30 minutes he was going to pick him up, because he wanted to match him in the "Big Convention." Hudson agreed to this as with Zebo’s kill record…he would rather gamble and give up a few pounds to make it number 5 than give up the forfeit.
Meanwhile, out in St. Louis, the "team" had a dog that was considered to be the best 44 pounder of his time. This Greaser had started out being called Yuebanks’ Greaser. If my information is correct, Yuebanks’ campaigned Greaser in his first four matches. All wins over some highly regarded opponents. Greaser had given his fans real reason to call him the best 44 pounder alive, as his opponents were good caliber dogs like Moloney’s Alligator and Mayfield’s Go Devils. The "Team" purchased Greaser especially for the Tex match since old Tex was a good dog in his own rights and the "team" knew they had to have an above average dog in order to beat Tex (how and why the "team" got Greaser is only hearsay on my part, the point is Greaser was the best 44 pounder alive. And he was the dog they had to use on Tex.) So we have the stage set. The Ohio boys have an "Ace" named Zebo, which the "team" doesn’t know about. And the "team" has an "ace" named Greaser tuning up that the Ohio boys don’t know about.
Then it became time to put up or shut up for old Zebo, for Adams announced he was taking over Hudson’s match. The night of the battle of Champions arrived, with only Greaser’s side knowing now that they were going into Zebo. When they arrived, they wanted to see this "killer dog" they were matched into and laughingly said, "He don’t look like no killer to us." Adams, nor any of his backers, knew Zebo was going into a 4 x winner. They should have suspected something for fanciers from out west had driven all the way to Ohio to see Greaser knock off this killer dog. Jimmy Jobe, the editor of Pit Dog Report, a Mayfield magazine for bulldogs, drove all the way and didn’t even mention the match in his magazine. This match was one of the best kept secrets in the dog world and when the story of it taking place did start to circulate, the match was down played. The first report of it anywhere (that I am or was aware of) was in Richard Stratton’s book. When you read the account, it tends to make you believe Zebo "got lucky" and hurt Greaser bad at the beginning of the match. This is false as, Greaser was on all fours late in the fight.
When the dogs were weighed, Zebo weighed just over 40 pounds. Greaser hit the scales at exactly 44 pounds. As Adams circulated among his backers before the match, he reminded everyone that he was giving up 4 pounds and was going to pick Zebo up at 30 minutes because he’d only worked him for three weeks and 4 pounds was too much to spot. As they released the two champions, you could bet all you wanted on Zebo and get odds of 3 to 1 or three hundred against your one hundred. As bets were laid and odds were taken, the name Greaser started to finally slip out. Zebo’s backers were aware finally that this was not going to be a walk over. People started to worry about their bet because Adams had warned that he was gone at 30 if Zebo wasn’t way ahead. Adams said later, "When Dogman and Johnson called me to the side of the pit at about the five minute mark, and told me they recognized the brindle dog as CH. Greaser, any thought of picking Zebo up at thirty minutes was gone. I knew I would let him battle as long as he had any chance to win. I realized that I didn’t have to go to Mexico to prove that Zebo was a great dog, the chance had come to me." As the match progressed, it could be basically reported in two sentences…."Greaser is extremely smart on defense and punishes Zebo bad about the head. Zebo is extremely smart on getting to the brisket and punishes Greaser bad in the chest." That is how close the match was. You would think that the four pounds would tip the scales in Greaser’s favor, but Zebo was ever so gradually getting a little bit deeper in the chest and even though Greaser was as smart as ever relying on defense, he was forced to allow Zebo in more often as the match grew older. The following is an accurate account of the match as can be made but, remember as you read this excerpt from Mr. Stratton’s book, that in this writer’s opinion ( and I was there), Zebo took Greaser down a notch at a time over the entire match, where here it tends to make you think that Greaser was destroyed early.
Unfortunately, Zebo attacked Mr. Adams' son and nearly took his son's ear off. After the request of Mr. Adams' wife, Zebo was sold again, this time to Mr. Johnson who fought him twice more. The last time to a son of his litter mate brother, Vindicator. Mr. Johnson hoped to get another match in, but was unable to find any takers, despite the fact that Zebo was past seven at this point. Thus, Zebo was retired to stud, and lived to the age of 13, siring his last litter days before his death. He had lost sight at the end, due to the extensive damage he sustained, for no dog was ever able to get to his rear.
During the time of Zebo's career as a match dog, there were two other dogs in his weight class that too was making names for themselves: Stinson & Glover's Gr. Ch. Art and Giroux' Ch. Gunner, 4X winner. It was planned to have a "round robbin" for the title of the greatest match dog.lj yjy[jl]yt]jjljld, were as each dog would go into each other to prove who was the greatest match dog. Each of these great dogs where relatively close to each other in regard to location. But, for whatever reasons, and hearsay has provided many, the matches never materialized.
Vindicator, was a red/red nosed dog that many, who had witnessed him matched contend he was a better dog than Zebo. He was a two time winner, winning each in identical times of 1:30. One of those victories was over Finley's Ch. Bo. He lost his third to Cutchin's Ace. Vindicator died at a young age of heart worms.
Rosie, like Vindicator, was also red/red nosed, but was never formally matched, though she was tested for 1:10. She simply was considered to ge too valuable as a brood bitch. She lived to the age of 10, dying also of heart worms a month after her last litter.
Zebo produced Stepp's Ch. Willie and Adams' Ch. Katy when bred to Tomsic's Spider ROM. Ch. Willie was, as said by some, to have the same destructive force of his sire, by killing each of his opponents in times of :27, :54, and :29 minutes. Others produced by Zebo were Ch. Ruby, Ch. Abuelita, Ch. Zipper, Ch. Diamond Jim, Clemmon's 2XW Z-Boy, Nigger Tobe, Super Gnat's 2XW Blackie and Hughes' Gator just to name a few of the good dogs he sired. He is the grand sire to some great ones like Doc's Ch. Moe who was a Grand Champion until he ran into Red B's Ch. Charlie. Many said that Moe went to the well one time too many in his loss against Charlie. After his victories over Ch. Fargo and his brother Basket, too much was taken out of him to go into a much younger dog like Charlie. (......)

[Highbloodbulldog]

HERE THE HISTORY OF INDIAN BOLIO ROM, only to helps too :)
(by Pat Patrick)

Bolio was bred by Maurice Carver and Eddie Klaus in 1969. His sire was the famous pit ace Klaus' Zeke and his dam was Klaus' Goldie. Bolio's pedigree is very heavy in the blood of a bitch named Carver's Judy and her sister the great Carver's Black Widow. In fact he carried fifty percent of this blood in his breeding.

Bennett Clayton of Texas bought Bolio from Carver and sent him to Floyd Boudreaux to be matched, he was hooked into a dog that had killed both of his previous opponents. This dog's name was Rowdy. Bolio was contracted into Rowdy twice. The first time Floyd was not content with Bolio's conditioning for the fight, he knew that Bolio must be perfect to fight a dog of this caliber. After Floyd paid the forfeit he set up a new match with Rowdy for the big night of a southern convention. This time Bolio was in great shape and when they hit, it was a real war. Bolio killed Rowdy in about two hours and was voted best in show! At this same convention, there were many champions being shown and among them was Davis' Grand Champion Boomerang. I was not at this fight and I got my information from other dog men and the sporting dog magazines.

Sometime after the fight Bolio was sold to a fancier in southern California. The new owner of Bolio was not interested in matching him again, even though I felt he was the best 43 lb. dog alive at the time. He decided to use him as a stud dog and that was the best use for him. Bolio was so talented he never got hurt in rolls. I was lucky enough to see him roll many times against all kinds of dogs including dogs that were up to 15 pounds larger than he. He handled ALL his opponents with ease.

I have not seen a large number of the famous foundation dogs fight and maybe some of them were better dogs than Bolio. I have seen many fast lane dogs in action since these foundation dogs faded into the past and I can say that Bolio is the best dog I have ever seen pound for pound. He was not an extremely hard biter, but he could shut his mouth. He was very skilled at keeping his holds and sometimes it would appear that he was glued to his rivals head, he liked to fight the head. He was very strong and fast wrestler and would quickly get his hold and then use his body weight and muscle power to wear the opponent down while punishing him the whole time. He would move in such a way that the other dog would be carrying most of Bolio's weight with him. When the other dog would slow down from the head holds, Bolio would go into the throat. If a dog did happen to get Bolio off his head, Bolio would go toe to toe with him, but not for long. Bolio would work his way back to the head and again be in total control. He was the fastest, smartest, and most effective head dog that I have ever seen. He had natural air and I never saw him slow down. He was a very intense dog and he loved to fight. When in the corner he would scream with rage until he was released into the other dog. Occasionally, he would bite you if not released quick enough.

Bolio as a producer was the best stud dog that I know of that ever lived. He was bred to some poor cur bitches and produced excellent pit dogs from them. When he was bred to good bitches, those results were amazing.

Some friends of mine had a dispute with Bolio's owner and ended up taking the dog while he was at church. I had no part in the taking of Bolio from his owner's yard and do not know the details of the dispute between him and my friends. I don't use his name because the purpose of this article is to praise Bolio, not to put down his former owner. Bolio's former owner had stolen dogs from me and so I feel that I owed him nothing. When the people who took Bolio offered me breeding rights to the dog, I accepted immediately. Bolio remained on my yard until he died at the age of thirteen. He would sire litter after litter of good dogs and I would rate him as a better stud dog than my Tombstone dog, who was also a great stud in his own right. Bolio produced fine dogs from all his breedings, no matter what the bloodline was. His pups carried the same traits that made him such a great dog.

When I bred a daughter of Bolio's, Red Baby, to Tombstone, the result was thirteen very good dogs. Eight of these dogs won 20 matches. The other five was used as brood bitches. Champion Tonka, Champion Snubby, Champion Crash, and Creamator were some of the better known dogs I sold from this breeding.

One of the first bitches I bred to Bolio was Faith, a Clouse bitch. This breeding produced eight game and talented dogs, including Chen Leng and Champion Princess. Red Baby's mother was a sister to Offer's Crazy Babe, a pure Clouse bitch. Red Baby's litter was a bunch of great dogs.

I had a bitch named Tuffy that was heavy in Clouse blood. She was by Tater and Faith, and when I bred her to Bolio, I got some very good dogs including Bull Boy Bob ROM and Champion Dugan. Bolio worked well with good Tombstone and Clouse bitches. He also sired good ones to great dogs out of bitches from the bloodlines of Eli Jr. and Ironhead. This reminds me of a statement made by Ricky Jones. He said, "My favorite bloodlines are the Eli / Ironhead cross dogs that came from Maurice during the early and mid seventies. Percentage wise these dogs will get you to the pit more times than any other bloodline out there. There are a lot of good dogs from other bloodlines, but over all you will get more dog for your money and time from the Eli/Ironhead line." Ricky Jones can run any bloodline he wants and he has a right to his own opinion. I don't think any bloodline is so superior to the other top bloodlines that it wins every time. However, Ricky stated very clearly that his dogs will win more that any other, now how in the hell would he know this to be a fact, he never used anything except the Eli blood and did 99.9% of his winning in his own back yard! I say his opinion is weak and wrong! I owned and saw dogs of Bullyson, Eli Jr., and Ironhead when Ricky still had his hound dogs. I say the Bolio blood is superior and I sold my Bullyson-Eli Jr., dogs to make room for the Bolio blood that I breed. I talked with Carver on many occasions and he told me more than twice that the Bolio dogs are his best without a doubt. In the whole article he never spoke about two of the best dogs he owned, Chome and Chocolate Soldier. These two dogs won 4 matches for him and they were bred by Diamond Jim out of a Bolio bitch bred to the great Luther dog. The mother of Chome and Soldier was Patrick's Rose. I understand that Jones had a lot of wins to his credit, but the fact is that a puppy I sold as a pet beat Grand Champion Sandman even though Sandman outweighed him by 3 lbs. I am talking about Grand Champion Buck, a Bolio dog. If Ricky can make a statement that his dogs are the best, I can tell you that the people with Bolio dogs aren't losing any sleep over his "Honest Dogs." I would not trade one good Bolio dog for any of his dogs. I quess most serious dog men run the line of dogs they like the best.

Bolio's blood is by far the biggest part of my yard. Almost all my dogs have some Bolio blood in them and many are 60-70% Bolio blood. I don't think you get the best results by just inbreeding on one good dog. You need other good bloodlines to cross them with and to keep them strong. I am without a doubt the biggest Bolio fan in the world and i have been bragging about him for twenty years. Maurice Carver told me that "all the Bolio dogs will do for you is win. Lots of people don't like them after they win, but they get the job done!" Eddie Klaus and Maurice Carver deserve the credit for breeding Bolio and his great litter mates Mendicino, Andy Capp, Daisy, and Leggs Diamond. All I did was realize his potential as a stud dog. I am sure I would still have bulldogs if I had never heard of Bolio, but I know my yard is a better yard because of him.

If I could have any dog that lived in the past, today, as a two year old dog, I would take Bolio!

[Highbloodbulldog]

Sorry to put my posts them not in one togheter.... I'm having problems in my Computer and/or conection...

[mydawgs]

Sorry to put my posts them not in one togheter.... I'm having problems in my Computer and/or conection...I respectfully disagree with you. If a dog is aggressive to ONE man, woman, child...etc, is he a man biter? I think in the term "man biter" is used without much discression, like "game", by the less informed. A dog that is truely HA by a doggers standards in my mind is very rare - and what I mean by that is this dog will be aggressive ALL the time to anyone, period.

If the stories of Bullyson are true as recorded - as point in case, once procured by Bobby Hall, the dog tested him for the alpha role...Bobby Hall took it from him with a shovel. Was Bullyson a man biter - IMO no, he more likely was a very high drive, sharp/hard tempermented, strong willed animal that needed a strong leader.

My point is, a man biter as I believe the doggers describe, bow to no other leader...they will always be aggressive. Hats off to those who can successfully work this kind of animal.

I know in police work of many dogs with the same temperment/behavior seen in Bullyson, they are only handled by the alpha and not exposed to situations where the dog will act out - never handled by someone the dog sees as a subserviant pack member, that would be a recipe for an ass whoopin by that dog - yet these dogs are useful to those that train and handle them in their line of work.

[Highbloodbulldog]

I respectfully disagree with you. If a dog is aggressive to ONE man, woman, child...etc, is he a man biter? I think in the term "man biter" is used without much discression, like "game", by the less informed. A dog that is truely HA by a doggers standards in my mind is very rare - and what I mean by that is this dog will be aggressive ALL the time to anyone, period.

If the stories of Bullyson are true as recorded - as point in case, once procured by Bobby Hall, the dog tested him for the alpha role...Bobby Hall took it from him with a shovel. Was Bullyson a man biter - IMO no, he more likely was a very high drive, sharp/hard tempermented, strong willed animal that needed a strong leader.

My point is, a man biter as I believe the doggers describe, bow to no other leader...they will always be aggressive. Hats off to those who can successfully work this kind of animal.

I know in police work of many dogs with the same temperment/behavior seen in Bullyson, they are only handled by the alpha and not exposed to situations where the dog will act out - never handled by someone the dog sees as a subserviant pack member, that would be a recipe for an ass whoopin by that dog - yet these dogs are useful to those that train and handle them in their line of work.
Very interesting post... I'm very respectul too, always... but in my point of view no bulldog can recognize aspects of social instincts to see this or that dog or man as alpha leader or omega... bulldogs with that kind of problem are suscetible to recognize traces of simbolic fight and this is so undesirable as a men-biter dog... to some breeders more... a bulldog need to respect the man because HE IS A MAN and not a dog or another animal, never because any different kind of instinct.
Temperament or behavior of a bulldog can't be classified as that, dogs that are agressive against the human kind are always undesirable... doesn't matter who is the handler... a strong adult or a child, there's no difference.

[mydawgs]

Very interesting post... I'm very respectul too, always... but in my point of view no bulldog can recognize aspects of social instincts to see this or that dog or man as alpha leader or omega... bulldogs with that kind of problem are suscetible to recognize traces of simbolic fight and this is so undesirable as a men-biter dog... to some breeders more... a bulldog need to respect the man because HE IS A MAN and not a dog or another animal, never because any different kind of instinct.
Temperament or behavior of a bulldog can't be classified as that, dogs that are agressive against the human kind are always undesirable... doesn't matter who is the handler... a strong adult or a child, there's no difference.
And in my point of view a dog is a canine (no matter what breed). Canines are pack animals. This is substantiated by years of research and stiudies. Just because a dog is a Pit Bull does not make him/her immune to his/her speices. All dogs understand and live the pack mentality. It is up to the humans to see, understand and shape the behavior....PERIOD.

[ABK]

Again, Bolio I can't speak on as I do not know much about him. But here are some quotes about Bullyson:

"I remember one incident with Bullyson when he was at my place, Jerry Clemmons brought the dog to me to be tested and one day while I was cleaning up around his chain, he tried to bite me. Before he could put his mouth on me I hit him hard with a shovel and knocked him out. After this happened, he never, at my place, tried to bite anyone again ..." - Floyd Boudreaux

It appeared Bullyson remembered the shovel. Read on ...

"When Bobby Hall owned Bully, he was attacked when he walked his run. Bobby had a large mouth shovel in his hand and he went upside Bully's head and put Bully on his backside, then was just able to get out of Bully's run before he came to his feet and came for him again. This occurred numerous times until the last when Bobby put the shovel in one hand and held it beside him and said "Come here Son. Bully, son come to me" and Bully then walked over to Bobby's feet and wagged his tail. Bobby said he stuck out his hand to him and he licked his hand, then Bobby walked over and shoveled up his dung."

Evidentally Bullyson remembered being knocked out w/ a shovel & Bobby Hall was appearanly carrying the shovel in what Bullyson thought was a threatening manner. But once the shovel was held down at his side Bullyson ceased to be aggressive.

However, there is this final account that does seem to lead us that Bullyson had a nasty nature ...

"Anyway this dog (Bullyson) was known on several occassions when someone was moving him in a car & he was loose, to sort of go off his rocker. Despite these problems they often hauled him loose, I suspect b/c it was so hard to get him in a carrying case (crate). On the move from Hall's place in Houston to Carver's place in San Antonio, Mr. Raymond Holt was elected to carry the dog. As usual, Bullyson was carried loose in the car. Raymond told me the only way he could keep Bullyson from jumping on him during the trip was to play w/ his testicles.

Anyway, Maurice got the dog & he was scared to death of him the whole time he had him. I stopped by Maurice's often & I could park my big rig right by his house. I have seen Bullyson jump 2 or 3 times right in into the sky above his cable, opening his mouth & biting the air, making terrible sounds.

At the time Maurice said to me 'You know me & you know how I am when I have a dog in a keep. I like to move my wife into another room & bring the dog in the house w/ me, watch TV w/ him & such & just become the best of friends.' Maurice had the feeling that if he was going to pit w/ a dog, he wanted to be his friend. He often said ' If I'm going to get down on my knees & ask a dog to take a killing for me, I want him to be a friend of mine.' Both he & I had our doubts that Bullyson had any permanent friends."

As for Zebo, here is the dirt on him straight from Old Mountain Man -

"Mr. Hughes said Zebo wouldn’t bother anyone unless they went to shake hands or slap him on the shoulder or something like that, then he would have to grab Zebo quick or someone would get bit. They tell the story of how Mr. Hughes was driving back from a trip and got road weary and sleepy. He pulled over and laid down in the seat of the car to rest, knowing Zebo would protect him while he slept."

It appears from all accounts, Zebo was a protective dog & would only bite if he was protecting either his property of his owners.

But this is JMHO ...

[Highbloodbulldog]

And in my point of view a dog is a canine (no matter what breed). Canines are pack animals. This is substantiated by years of research and stiudies. Just because a dog is a Pit Bull does not make him/her immune to his/her speices. All dogs understand and live the pack mentality. It is up to the humans to see, understand and shape the behavior....PERIOD.
Wrong.

If you have yers of dog's study, know that my family bred bulldogs from decades.
The bulldog CAN'T RECOGNIZE SIMBOLIC FIGHTING AND NEITHER HAVE NATURAL SOCIAL INSTINCTS.

End of discussion.

[Highbloodbulldog]

Again, Bolio I can't speak on as I do not know much about him. But here are some quotes about Bullyson:

"I remember one incident with Bullyson when he was at my place, Jerry Clemmons brought the dog to me to be tested and one day while I was cleaning up around his chain, he tried to bite me. Before he could put his mouth on me I hit him hard with a shovel and knocked him out. After this happened, he never, at my place, tried to bite anyone again ..." - Floyd Boudreaux

It appeared Bullyson remembered the shovel. Read on ...

"When Bobby Hall owned Bully, he was attacked when he walked his run. Bobby had a large mouth shovel in his hand and he went upside Bully's head and put Bully on his backside, then was just able to get out of Bully's run before he came to his feet and came for him again. This occurred numerous times until the last when Bobby put the shovel in one hand and held it beside him and said "Come here Son. Bully, son come to me" and Bully then walked over to Bobby's feet and wagged his tail. Bobby said he stuck out his hand to him and he licked his hand, then Bobby walked over and shoveled up his dung."

Evidentally Bullyson remembered being knocked out w/ a shovel & Bobby Hall was appearanly carrying the shovel in what Bullyson thought was a threatening manner. But once the shovel was held down at his side Bullyson ceased to be aggressive.

However, there is this final account that does seem to lead us that Bullyson had a nasty nature ...

"Anyway this dog (Bullyson) was known on several occassions when someone was moving him in a car & he was loose, to sort of go off his rocker. Despite these problems they often hauled him loose, I suspect b/c it was so hard to get him in a carrying case (crate). On the move from Hall's place in Houston to Carver's place in San Antonio, Mr. Raymond Holt was elected to carry the dog. As usual, Bullyson was carried loose in the car. Raymond told me the only way he could keep Bullyson from jumping on him during the trip was to play w/ his testicles.

Anyway, Maurice got the dog & he was scared to death of him the whole time he had him. I stopped by Maurice's often & I could park my big rig right by his house. I have seen Bullyson jump 2 or 3 times right in into the sky above his cable, opening his mouth & biting the air, making terrible sounds.

At the time Maurice said to me 'You know me & you know how I am when I have a dog in a keep. I like to move my wife into another room & bring the dog in the house w/ me, watch TV w/ him & such & just become the best of friends.' Maurice had the feeling that if he was going to pit w/ a dog, he wanted to be his friend. He often said ' If I'm going to get down on my knees & ask a dog to take a killing for me, I want him to be a friend of mine.' Both he & I had our doubts that Bullyson had any permanent friends."

As for Zebo, here is the dirt on him straight from Old Mountain Man -

"Mr. Hughes said Zebo wouldn’t bother anyone unless they went to shake hands or slap him on the shoulder or something like that, then he would have to grab Zebo quick or someone would get bit. They tell the story of how Mr. Hughes was driving back from a trip and got road weary and sleepy. He pulled over and laid down in the seat of the car to rest, knowing Zebo would protect him while he slept."

It appears from all accounts, Zebo was a protective dog & would only bite if he was protecting either his property of his owners.

But this is JMHO ...

I agree.

I never knew a Bullyson dog that was agressive against the human kind... but Zebo dogs... I never saw one that wasn't... I don't know if all of Zebo bulldogs are, I do believe that are not, but I never saw one here in Brazil...

Very nice post, congratulations.:cool:

[mydawgs]

Wrong.

If you have yers of dog's study, know that my family bred bulldogs from decades.
The bulldog CAN'T RECOGNIZE SIMBOLIC FIGHTING AND NEITHER HAVE NATURAL SOCIAL INSTINCTS.

End of discussion.Define simbolic fighting....the pit bull is FAMOUS for its social instincts - the packs are generally made up of canine and HUMANS.

All animals have instincts.

I don't care how long you have been around pit bulls, they are dogs and it is obvious you don't care to see the mountains of behavioral information that is available to the layman reagarding dog behavior...do some homework, then you can START a discussion...

But with what you have brought to this discussion I am not apt to listen to you - a closed mind is a HUGE indicator.

Also read ABKs post again, this time carefully...with every incident she can explain the behavior because she really does know dogs, pit bulls are her specialty...food for thought, or not

Regards

[short1]

Mydogs I think what he is saying is they have lost alot of the stuff most dogs of other breeds do when fighting 1) they have no threat display they rarely raise there hackels they dont growl and bare there teeth 2) they dont snap as warning 3) they have lost the ability to understand submission when a dog rolls over to submit they will continue to fight so what he is saying is they have not the same social skills as other breeds of dogs and they finds pleasure in what they do which most other dogs fight only for territory or to get a better pack position(breeding rights ) so I can agree with him in the sence that they are not pack animals in the sence that you think they are pack animals I would really like to see 7 or 8 gamebred bulldogs growing up together and see the results of that pack even 3or 4 for that matter there is just no way its gonna happen heck Ive seen 4 mo old puppies that would attack an adult dog, another puppy dont matter this has not been an Isolated case either Ive seen it many times so that is not normal pack eddicit n

[mydawgs]

Mydogs I think what he is saying is they have lost alot of the stuff most dogs of other breeds do when fighting 1) they have no threat display they rarely raise there hackels they dont growl and bare there teeth 2) they dont snap as warning 3) they have lost the ability to understand submission when a dog rolls over to submit they will continue to fight so what he is saying is they have not the same social skills as other breeds of dogs and they finds pleasure in what they do which most other dogs fight only for territory or to get a better pack position(breeding rights ) so I can agree with him in the sence that they are not pack animals in the sence that you think they are pack animals I would really like to see 7 or 8 gamebred bulldogs growing up together and see the results of that pack even 3or 4 for that matter there is just no way its gonna happen heck Ive seen 4 mo old puppies that would attack an adult dog, another puppy dont matter this has not been an Isolated case either Ive seen it many times so that is not normal pack eddicit n
Short

We are violently agreeing - I am saying that the norm "pack" for a game PB is the humans that surround it, not a group of other game bulldogs. If you look at the works of C. Milan you can also see that a PB can be molded into a pack with other dogs, where Ceasar is the alpha, again not the norm (perhaps not a game dog - but perhaps so) but a demonstration of the power and consistancy of pack behavior.

I am saying the zebo/bolio blood lines appear to me to be very will full high drive dogs that require a STRONG human alpha, if not they will take leadership with their humans and that behavior will manifest itself in aggression toward humans, as that dog asserts itself in a leadership role..so what is the behavior at this point true HA or weak human leadership? Why will these type of dogs submit to some humans and not to others? Do you really count the historic accounts of an excited dog in drive taking a run at the handler holding the dog at the "start"? IMO no. That is my only point. But thank you for the clarrification of the gentlemans words, I did not understand what he was saying.

[Highbloodbulldog]

Define simbolic fighting....the pit bull is FAMOUS for its social instincts - the packs are generally made up of canine and HUMANS.

All animals have instincts.

I don't care how long you have been around pit bulls, they are dogs and it is obvious you don't care to see the mountains of behavioral information that is available to the layman reagarding dog behavior...do some homework, then you can START a discussion...

But with what you have brought to this discussion I am not apt to listen to you - a closed mind is a HUGE indicator.

Also read ABKs post again, this time carefully...with every incident she can explain the behavior because she really does know dogs, pit bulls are her specialty...food for thought, or not

Regards
You just missed the point...

I NEVER wrote that Pit Bulls don't have instincts. Pit bulls have social instinct with human kind, not to dogs or another animals. You are just trying to show your more-or-less wrong tecnicisms reading what you want, and not what I've wrote.

I think is you that need to do "some homework"... begining by your education, son.

I've joined this forum to discuss, not to be offended by a kid. If you want to prove that I'm wrong take an airplane and come here in my yard.

Ps.: If you didn't payd attention, I'm brazilian not north-american, so english isn't my main language, so if I've posted some that doen'd make sense, wasn't my foul... but I don't believe that was happen.

I will not reply more... you're just wasting my time.. sorry...

Honestly, have a nice day :) .

[Highbloodbulldog]

Mydogs I think what he is saying is they have lost alot of the stuff most dogs of other breeds do when fighting 1) they have no threat display they rarely raise there hackels they dont growl and bare there teeth 2) they dont snap as warning 3) they have lost the ability to understand submission when a dog rolls over to submit they will continue to fight so what he is saying is they have not the same social skills as other breeds of dogs and they finds pleasure in what they do which most other dogs fight only for territory or to get a better pack position(breeding rights ) so I can agree with him in the sence that they are not pack animals in the sence that you think they are pack animals I would really like to see 7 or 8 gamebred bulldogs growing up together and see the results of that pack even 3or 4 for that matter there is just no way its gonna happen heck Ive seen 4 mo old puppies that would attack an adult dog, another puppy dont matter this has not been an Isolated case either Ive seen it many times so that is not normal pack eddicit n
Exactly...

I think my only possible problem is with the language, you understood well.

Thanks, Short.

[mydawgs]

You just missed the point...

I NEVER wrote that Pit Bulls don't have instincts. Pit bulls have social instinct with human kind, not to dogs or another animals. You are just trying to show your more-or-less wrong tecnicisms reading what you want, and not what I've wrote.

I think is you that need to do "some homework"... begining by your education, son.

I've joined this forum to discuss, not to be offended by a kid. If you want to prove that I'm wrong take an airplane and come here in my yard.

Ps.: If you didn't payd attention, I'm brazilian not north-american, so english isn't my main language, so if I've posted some that doen'd make sense, wasn't my foul... but I don't believe that was happen.

I will not reply more... you're just wasting my time.. sorry...

Honestly, have a nice day :) .


I am neither your son nor a man, nor a kid for that matter - I do have two kids, 17 and 21 though. I am very open to your difference in opinions. But since I have spent the last two years re-habing my own dog I have spent countless hours and dollars studying this very issue and from what you have said, though the language may be a barrier, I think we have found some common ground. No need to take it personaly. I will be more than happy to listen, I'm just not keen on "take my word for it" without a substantiation of ones position with factual information.

I am not a big advocate for blame, so the difference in perspectives are not a matter of fault to me. It is about sharing information in a free and open forum as educated and intelligent adults.

Regards

[Highbloodbulldog]

I am neither your son nor a man, nor a kid for that matter - I do have two kids, 17 and 21 though. I am very open to your difference in opinions. But since I have spent the last two years re-habing my own dog I have spent countless hours and dollars studying this very issue and from what you have said, though the language may be a barrier, I think we have found some common ground. No need to take it personaly. I will be more than happy to listen, I'm just not keen on "take my word for it" without a substantiation of ones position with factual information.

I am not a big advocate for blame, so the difference in perspectives are not a matter of fault to me. It is about sharing information in a free and open forum as educated and intelligent adults.

Regards
Then, sorry about the "kid" and the "son"... I didn't wanted to offend you.
Regards to your family.

[Highbloodbulldog]

After this discussion with you, my dawgs... a nice respectful private conversation...

I liked that,

Regards my friend.

Now, up to topic.

[ghost 1]

You know how no good dogmen or women would tolerate a men biter in there yard right
Please name one (yes only one) dogmen/women that “wouldn’t tolerate a man biter”. Hello, if no one “tolerated” such…there wouldn’t be canines! Nothing wrong with a dog that will protect it territory/owner. Trouble arises when people are clueless to the difference between a protective dog, and a legitimate “man-eater”. The later only one in a million will ever see in their life-time!


well you have herd the storys of bolio and zebo how they were men biters what would you of done if you went back in time or pretend that you were the ones that raise these dogs and noticed that this was a problem what were you of done
I would of petted them one the head and enjoy my time with them like any other dog! Now if you’re trying to say they were “man-eaters” you’d be inaccurate. Big deal a dog is protective of its property/owner. Was either of them “man-eaters”? NO! How are we sure? Just look at the facts-real simple. Each dog mentioned above changed hands numerous times. Webmistress mentioned her experience with Bolio in another thread. If one believes he was stolen…definitely can say he wasn’t a “man-eater”. Now Zebo, most have read all about him and his biting habits. Does that equal him deserving the title “man-eater”? Hell no! After all he was Lester’s house dog…not something a “man-eater” could ever be. The confusion always stems from individuals lack of understanding the terminology and what constitutes as a man-eater. By most peoples definition we need to cull the entire world of canines.


Tip of the day: If someone doesn’t want to risk the possibilities of having a man biter. Get a pet rock or rock yard is desiring more than one pet!

right on tex...i would have looked deeper on why it happened and what constituted it happen before i culled it and then made a healthy decision

[ABK]

This is very true. I remember the first time I was in a cull/no cull situtation. I had a bitch who bit someone on the leg. I was terrified she was a man-biter & was going to cull her immediately. However, before I did so I called a good friend of mine who had several more years in the breed than I had to ask her advice. She told me in no way should I cull the dog. Here was why:

The woman was about 100 feet away from the dog. The dog began running toward her as she knew the woman & was coming to her for pets. When the dog was about 20 feet out, the woman bent down, picked up a rolled up newspaper & started toward us in an unusal posture. Once Indigo saw that "stick" in that woman's hand & her different body posture, she shot to her like a rocket, grabbed her pants leg & began shaking it like crazy. When I called her name she released the pant leg, came right back to me & sat in front of me, watching the woman the whole time as she cussed me out!

Now should I have culled my dog? Was she a "man-biter?" Not really. Not if you look at the whole picture. She thought she was protecting herself & her pack from a dangerous person w/ a "stick."

So that gave me food for thought. I almost killed a dog who had no right to really have been killed.

JMHO ...

[kane85]

Well I have discussed this issue with two members on this bord about this issue the reason why I started this thread was to see how many people would do it and it looks like half and half on this a couple weeks ago there was a guy on here that wanted advice on a dog bite the story gose that there was somebody doing some house work next door some tools fell in the yard and the guy did not bother to tell them can I go in your yard to get the tools so he just gose in the yard and the owner of the house dose not know that the guy was there so he opens the door to let the dog out to go to the bathroom and bam the dog sees the guy and bites him. So when he wanted advice a lot of people were like cull him he should not of done that put the dog down I believe the dog was just ptotecting the propery his domaine remember this is a house dog not a dog on the chain I believe that there is a major differance between a petbull and a dog on the chain the dog on the chain will protect just his chain space there are a lot of dog men and dog women that has 20+ dogs( iam just esstamateing don't jump on me for this comment I know a lot fo dog men that own lots of dogs)your not going to give each dog the same amount of time so of course the dogs are friendly they want that humane intteraction.know to the petbull or house dog they are not on the chain they get that humane interaction every day so they will protect there yard there chain space being the whole yard.we'll correct me if iam wrong I don't know everything these are my own opions hope to here from people on this thanks in advance.

[FourCorners]

I think if the dog showed enough ability in the box and was a little HA i would still keep it. That dog would probably win me enough money in the box to heal up my arm and whatever else. I think Mr. Hughes did the right thing in keeping zebo because you dont come across to many dogs with the mouth and talent that zebo had.

[Highbloodbulldog]

I think if the dog showed enough ability in the box and was a little HA i would still keep it. That dog would probably win me enough money in the box to heal up my arm and whatever else. I think Mr. Hughes did the right thing in keeping zebo because you dont come across to many dogs with the mouth and talent that zebo had.
I completely agree with you.