outcast pit bulls?

[Flavor4real]

what's up,..

just wanted to see what y'all opinion to the outcast pit bulls are? ....
other question: my cusion breed two dogs they are step bros and step sis.... they have the same fahter.... any problems with that tight breeding??

[KnOck]

what's up,..

just wanted to see what y'all opinion to the outcast pit bulls are? ....
other question: my cusion breed two dogs they are step bros and step sis.... they have the same fahter.... any problems with that tight breeding??
1st there is nothing wrong with breeding half brother to sister. Alot of game dogs are bred this way. 2nd are you talking about OutKast the rap group? If so, they got some good lookin dogs if your into blue dogs. IMO they are well over priced and not gamebred...and game bred is what I'm into ;)

[MMK]

knock i like the way u think, u beat me to the punch about the blue staffs (no such thing as a blue pit)
MMK

[Flavor4real]

... yes, i was talking about the outcast pit bulls (rapgroup) ... I've seen those dogs and they looking pretty good, if i go to another breeder webseit then everybody there is getting mad about the outcast pits. .... they say they not reated the right way...

I heard if u croiss brother and sister, that u will get wild pits. is that true? they say that those breed are biting everybody and are un conrollable.

I'm new with this, so if i catch the wrong words i still hope that y'all see what im saying. I got my first pit, A blue brindle and he's already 15 month old and is strong as hell and big for his age.

I heard about weight pulling, how can i train him on that? what do i need? I mean i walk him since he was 4 month, 1.7-3 miles, 2-5 times a week and he got strong muscle. he pull the shit out of me, without gloves,...no chance.. lol

[MMK]

this needs moved to the amstaff forum, as there is no such thing as a blue pit, only blue staffs. it is quite possible that they are more human aggresive than gamebred pitbulls are for the simple fact that they are bred to just look good and they dont care about man biters and just keep them to make money off them.

brother sister breedings does not produce wild dogs (most likely) but it would be more of a brood stock breeding. but inbred does not mean man biters in fact some of the best dogs are inbred (father faughter or grandfather and grand daughter usually)

about wieght pulling i think this would be better in the staff forum for similair reasons or better yet ask about the wieght pulling in the conditioning forum.

better yet i think i might be able to help give you guidence if you message me in the chat room in real time

MMK

[Flavor4real]

yeah, ...i know that here is no such thing as blue bloodline or so.. they told me blue is the name for the coat.

My dogs mother side has a few differend bloodlins, something with wallace,wachun, or so i don't know,...

Socan i say if someone breed borther and sister, that they aclt wanted to keep the bloodline ? or how will u say it?

and something else about the bloodlines, how many diff. bloodlines are actl. out there and what bloodline means what? like bloodlineone crossed with bloodline one = aggressive dogs ?? or is this complet wrong what i ask?

what does gamebreed actl. mean?

[Bubba]

yeah, ...i know that here is no such thing as blue bloodline or so.. they told me blue is the name for the coat. Blue is just the color of the coat correct, blue is actually a dilute of the black color gene, it is definately NOT something to breed for unless you are just interested in making a buck. Its mostly found in UKC type show dogs. It is NOT common in a PURE gamebred dog, but I have heard that some of the Boudreaux' dogs will occassionally throw a blue, not sure how true that is tho.

Socan i say if someone breed borther and sister, that they aclt wanted to keep the bloodline ? or how will u say it? Yes, many folks inbred to preserve a line. When you dog has all the traits you want, you can inbred to lock in those traits. Inbreeding will intensify the GOOD traits but it will also intensify the BAD traits bringing the bad crap to the front as well. As mentioned before, inbred dogs usually are for brood type stock, but then again brood stock should face a tougher test than your other stock as thats the stock you build your line with.

and something else about the bloodlines, how many diff. bloodlines are actl. out there and what bloodline means what? like bloodlineone crossed with bloodline one = aggressive dogs ?? or is this complet wrong what i ask?There are MANY bloodlines out there, too many to count. You cross a bloodline into another bloodline if you feel the blood you are running is missing something, so you cross into a bloodline that normally carries the trait you are lacking. Bloodline to Bloodline won't make "aggressive dogs", a bulldog tends to be dog aggressive by nature, and if you are thinking human aggressive, a human aggressive dog needs to be culled and culled quick before a newspaper article gets written about him.

what does gamebreed actl. mean?Gamebred...the willingness to continue no matter how tired, sore, hurt you are...this is the one trait that seperates THIS breed from any other breed that we know about. There is a good article on gameness here on this forum, take a look for it, its a good read.
Hope this helped somewhat...
BB

[gator]

Breeding half brother to half sister may or may not do you any good. Line breeding is the only way to preserve the best of your line of dogs, and it has been done for years in all breeds. I don`t like brother and sister breedings and won`t make them because chances are things wont work out the way you want just my opinion. I as most people do go father back to daughter or son back to mother. This does 2 things it magnifies the good traits of the dog which is what you are looking for but it also does the samething to the bad traits so you have to be very selective in your choices to accomplish your goals and of course this won`t happen over night. Line breeding is the best way to go to establish and maintain a good bloodline and of course this is just my opinion.

[LA_Headhunters]

this needs moved to the amstaff forum, as there is no such thing as a blue pit, only blue staffs. it is quite possible that they are more human aggresive than gamebred pitbulls are for the simple fact that they are bred to just look good and they dont care about man biters and just keep them to make money off them.

brother sister breedings does not produce wild dogs (most likely) but it would be more of a brood stock breeding. but inbred does not mean man biters in fact some of the best dogs are inbred (father faughter or grandfather and grand daughter usually)

about wieght pulling i think this would be better in the staff forum for similair reasons or better yet ask about the wieght pulling in the conditioning forum.

better yet i think i might be able to help give you guidence if you message me in the chat room in real time

MMK

Same way I feel !!!!

[MMK]

i think the easiest way of explaining gameness to people new to the breed is to have them watch a rocky movie and point out how he is getting beaten horribly and is tired and out of breat but wont stop till he wins. that is how i explained it to flavor4real in the chat.
MMK

[KURUPT]

I just wanted to add my 2 cents on the blue pits...
Yes staff's are bred for the color all the time and they look real nice, if that's what your into and there are some Game bred blues as well...There has been Blue Colby dogs..There has even been a blue pit Ch, CH. BLUE...Some Heinzl x Colby cross's came out Blue also...I also know some breeders out in Texas That bred a Pure Bolio bitch back to her Son (Bolio x Jeep cross) and they got 2 Blue dogs in the litter....To say there are no blue pitbull dogs is just not true.....YIS

[Bubba]

I just wanted to add my 2 cents on the blue pits...
Yes staff's are bred for the color all the time and they look real nice, if that's what your into and there are some Game bred blues as well...There has been Blue Colby dogs..There has even been a blue pit Ch, CH. BLUE...Some Heinzl x Colby cross's came out Blue also...I also know some breeders out in Texas That bred a Pure Bolio bitch back to her Son (Bolio x Jeep cross) and they got 2 Blue dogs in the litter....To say there are no blue pitbull dogs is just not true.....YISYou are correct, it can happen...but its not the norm. Normally, blues = staffs, but then again, there are exceptions to every rule...
BB

[J M A N]

LOLOLOLOLOL

1st there is nothing wrong with breeding half brother to sister. Alot of game dogs are bred this way. 2nd are you talking about OutKast the rap group? If so, they got some good lookin dogs if your into blue dogs. IMO they are well over priced and not gamebred...and game bred is what I'm into ;)

[JC-Pitbulls]

My black Jeep/Rascal X Boudreaux threw a blue pup the last litter he sired , and his brother also threw one in a litter about a month ago.

[Big River Kennels]

I agree about the in breeding. that is how you get rid of some traits and emphasize others.

[rocksteady]

Your absolutely right. I have a Blue Pit that is game as hell! At only 1 year old I have to keep him completely away from my other dogs cause he want's to eatem. Can't wait to see him at 2.
:p


I've got a female off of a blue dam thats deep game ..infact, she wasnt the only out of the litter that turned out good. Her brother has been siring some bad ass dogs ..I crack up because not once has anyone ever said they are am staffs when the see them in action.. nor would anyone ever suspect they have and "blue" in them unless they see the pedigree

Its all on what you're breeding for. there were blue dogs way before the Am staff was ever invented..now they may not have been as game as some like..especially with the Blue Poll dogs as I've often heard that the brindles were better than the blues (the scottish dog that was a founder of the modern APBT) so maybe that plays a roll

but to say a dog with blue in its ped is crap, well, everyone's got their opinions. Base the dog on its abilties (hell..little thirty five could have been from blues and no one would ever have known,,)

Blue bully had a good top line on his sires side. I hear not only was he good looking, he had some spunk to him..(but thats only what I hear.. i dont know for sure)

[Big River Kennels]

I've got a female off of a blue dam thats deep game ..infact, she wasnt the only out of the litter that turned out good. Her brother has been siring some bad ass dogs ..I crack up because not once has anyone ever said they are am staffs when the see them in action.. nor would anyone ever suspect they have and "blue" in them unless they see the pedigree

Its all on what you're breeding for. there were blue dogs way before the Am staff was ever invented..now they may not have been as game as some like..especially with the Blue Poll dogs as I've often heard that the brindles were better than the blues (the scottish dog that was a founder of the modern APBT) so maybe that plays a roll

but to say a dog with blue in its ped is crap, well, everyone's got their opinions. Base the dog on its abilties (hell..little thirty five could have been from blues and no one would ever have known,,)

Blue bully had a good top line on his sires side. I hear not only was he good looking, he had some spunk to him..(but thats only what I hear.. i dont know for sure) you will find that the true pit bull had no blue in it. it is a known fact. when you see blues, that usually comes from a cross of an outside breed such as the great dane.

[Big River Kennels]

you will find that the true pit bull had no blue in it. it is a known fact. when you see blues, that usually comes from a cross of an outside breed such as the great dane.Ask someone who is a "member of the corp" you will find they agree with me.

[Big River Kennels]

what's up,..

just wanted to see what y'all opinion to the outcast pit bulls are? ....
other question: my cusion breed two dogs they are step bros and step sis.... they have the same fahter.... any problems with that tight breeding?? there is no such thing as a step brother and step sister. that would have to be half sister or brother.

[B-I-Z]

uhm.....are those your dogs? I've seen a couple of them on a breeders webpage before......

[nc_pitbulls]

yah and i don't have any dog on websites...

[B-I-Z]

http://www.screamerspitbulls.com/studs.html

[nc_pitbulls]

there are so many people with that pic and pics of other of my dogs.....lol it not even funny #1 reason i don't post my pics any more but it really don't matter.........i could take some more pictures of him go get them developed and show a new one of him when the pics are ready

[PhillyPitty]

lol yo i seen that site yesterday

lol damn it must be low to steal pics of other peoples dogs

i kno for a fact that my pit aint no where near that bulky as those dogs but i dont care hes my pit.

i'ma make a web site so i can show yall my pit 'Knuckles' but ima unable right click because people do steal pics believe it or not

smh[shakes my head]

[True_Bulldog]

I highly doubt screamers is the one who stole the pics. Considering they have had this dog on their site for ages and also in their Gazette advertisement (of which you dont send in new copies of stolen pics but actl hard copy pics), that they have bred pups off this dog and have been forever. If you don't have a site or pics of your dogs online then their is no way for them to have stolen, hmm must be the other way around. I really dont like the idea of that, was on another message board where a member was banned for stealing pics from sites and putting them on his site claiming them to be his, it all catches up to you in time. Pic theft one thing that really upsets me. I know I've also seen the 2nd dog pic on a site b4. I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I really just dont buy it.

Let me guess, the first dog is a Lonzo bred dog. Which anyone should be able to tell straight off. Which sent me right to Bone's Yard and I guessed right thats exactly where the pic came from. The first stud on his page. Even a pic of him holding the dog!!!!

That is pretty low man!

[GT99]

lmao, thats funny as hell.

pretty dogs none the less

[TERRIBLE TEXAS]

that is some funny sh!t



I highly doubt screamers is the one who stole the pics. Considering they have had this dog on their site for ages and also in their Gazette advertisement (of which you dont send in new copies of stolen pics but actl hard copy pics), that they have bred pups off this dog and have been forever. If you don't have a site or pics of your dogs online then their is no way for them to have stolen, hmm must be the other way around. I really dont like the idea of that, was on another message board where a member was banned for stealing pics from sites and putting them on his site claiming them to be his, it all catches up to you in time. Pic theft one thing that really upsets me. I know I've also seen the 2nd dog pic on a site b4. I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I really just dont buy it.

Let me guess, the first dog is a Lonzo bred dog. Which anyone should be able to tell straight off. Which sent me right to Bone's Yard and I guessed right thats exactly where the pic came from. The first stud on his page. Even a pic of him holding the dog!!!!

That is pretty low man!

[TERRIBLE TEXAS]

i also hate people that steal anything
Pic theft one thing that really upsets me. I know I've also seen the 2nd dog pic on a site b4. I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I really just dont buy it.

That is pretty low man!

[True_Bulldog]

Here is what JB had to say.

"chubby is mine I took every single pic of him on my digatal cam.
I got him, his papers and my cam.
frankly im done with board bull shit. you see by the message you told me is posted that it is all bull shit.
I do not have a login name to get on that board nore do I want one.
if they have a true problem with me like that,
they would shurely come do something! or call me or e mail me.
if they think I took their pics or dog why do they not contact me??????????
every pic of him on my site is in my yard or driveway>> mine, my yard, chubbys kennel, my dog, my pics. my property. if I stole the pics? how did my yard, my property get in there???????????????? if they think I took their dog!
I got the number of who I got him from. and the breeder and a recipt!!
not to mention his papers, pics of him as a pup up till now. you can repost this reply on the board or trash it I give 2 f***s less."

He said to repost or trast it, I was just going to leave it be, just thought I should let him know some one is stealing his pics and claiming the other way around, but then I thought why not let them know the owner knows. How dumb can you be to steal pics off the net, off popular sites people are going to find out, it makes you look so foolish. LMFAO

[powder925]

thats to funny.I knew I had seen those dogs on another web site before. I honestly don't understand why someone would lie about owning a dog that they don't,either they think it makes them cool(which is pathedic)or they are trying to scam people into buying scatter bred dogs. either way your a loser.

[nextbigthang]

actually there were many blue pitbulls in the early days and just like most pits today they werent 90 lbs.

[idgie]

I've been to the kennel owned by OutKast and those dogs looked like they were treated very well. Nicest kennel set-up I've seen (which I guess makes sense - they have the $$!)
What does it mean to say all blues are AmStaffs? Does it just mean they are not game bred? There are ADBA registered blue APBTs. I've also talked to some old time dogmen who've said there were blue bulldogs around the scene in the 70s-80s, although color didn't matter to them. Not that blues were common, just that it did happen.

[MTNDOG]

Just because a dog is adba reg. doesnt make it apbt or gamebred. If it comes from amstaff breedings it is amstaff no matter what reg. it is registered with.

[rocksteady]

Just because a dog is adba reg. doesnt make it apbt or gamebred. If it comes from amstaff breedings it is amstaff no matter what reg. it is registered with.
But the Am Staff comes from the APBT..so therefore in your therory since the Am Staff comes form the APBT, it is therefore an APBT .. (start with the "first AM Staffs" they come from APBTs, so they must be APBTs, and go on down the line) Not to mention that thorught the yeras AKC has indeed opened its stud books to certain APBTs

[rocksteady]

Ask someone who is a "member of the corp" you will find they agree with me.

I have ... and they all say who cares as long as the dog is game. Allthough I never got a chance to ask Mr Colby himself..who did register his APBTs as AM Staffs for awhile as a courtisy for AKC.. Do you think then he just went and registered all his currs as Am Staffs?

Thats my opinion on the matter I'd rather have a game dog any day with some blue in it that a fancy bred over priced paper bred .....


Genetics are a funny thing. You never ever know exactly what will happen

Certain genes can be hiding in the mix and when mixed with other genes, they pop right out

Great Dane? hmmm. Plenty of red nosed dogs running around with some hound in them Besides, years ago most people didnt keep good track of their peds, let their dogs run loose and didnt have the modern technology that we have today. Its hard to tell exactly what went into the mix of things further back.. so who's to say anything about this or that. But the Blue Poll dogs did exist and were used in the formation of the APBT.

[MTNDOG]

But the Am Staff comes from the APBT..so therefore in your therory since the Am Staff comes form the APBT, it is therefore an APBT .. (start with the "first AM Staffs" they come from APBTs, so they must be APBTs, and go on down the line) Not to mention that thorught the yeras AKC has indeed opened its stud books to certain APBTs
I think we all know where amstaffs come from, and I am not saying they cant be game. I have this male http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=68049 who is Mostly UKC amstaff. He is a good dog and even better buddy. If I reg. him with adba that doesnt change the fact he is an amstaff, and that is the point I was making. Some people think if a dog is adba reg it is apbt and that is not always the case. Personally I would not mix the two (apbt/amstaff) together in a breeding program, although it has been done successfully.

mtn

[idgie]

So if a dog has no "official" AmStaff in its blood, but all pit bull, but is not game bred (but bred for color or looks or conformation), is it still a pit bull?

[True_Bulldog]

Screamer Kennels would like me to post:


"Please post on the site for us that anyone can contact us or the ADBA for proof on who owns him. S.Williams & Barbara Williams of Screamers Kennels. He is in many ADBA Pit Bull Gazette issues and has been since he was a pup in 1999. His ADBA registration # 83800G-38. Williams' Rudy the Rednosed. The ADBA has on file who owns this dog. Born April 27, 1999 in our living room. Sire: Lilly's Master Yoda, Dam: Pretty Little Georgia Girl. Sire & Dam are sitting here in front of me, alive and well. They can be viewed on our site. www.Screamerspitbulls.com (http://64.4.53.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=1d6f45379e30b76ee8a5ab70326b6fbe&lat=1094316395&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eScreamerspitbulls%2 ecom)
. Anyone can call the ADBA to verify 801-936-7513 or email at Bstofshw@adba.cc (http://by19fd.bay19.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?mailto=1&msg=MSG1094050717.57&start=495672&len=6984&src=&type=x&to=Bstofshw%40adba%2ecc&cc=&bcc=&subject=&body=&curmbox=F000000001&a=2d7b280b1a904e956aef46f647f4fab2) to confirm ownership. That should be the end of it. We can be reached by the number on our site and we offer a Yard Video for $25, with lots of footage of Rudy over the years."

[rocksteady]

I think we all know where amstaffs come from, and I am not saying they cant be game. I have this male http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=68049 who is Mostly UKC amstaff. He is a good dog and even better buddy. If I reg. him with adba that doesnt change the fact he is an amstaff, and that is the point I was making. Some people think if a dog is adba reg it is apbt and that is not always the case. Personally I would not mix the two (apbt/amstaff) together in a breeding program, although it has been done successfully.

mtn


Yes..i realize the am Staffs of today are not true APBTs and should be kept seperate. what I am referring to is the Am staff of yesterday..the originals and up into the late 60's .. like Tacoma All Ablaze (in the ped of "Gr CH Adams Kingfish, Stubblefield, CH Berry's Caleb)

unfortunelty 2 of my dogs have am staff.. the male we dont use, as he's cold...the few times he was schooled he actually did ok.. and he didnt run in the other direction but he's still young..I dont think much will ever come out of him. we did do a show breeding and the pups came out pretty well placing and winning conformation at 4 months old..and thats all that will ever be done with him (..his dam is full to a good game bitch) So he's the house pet now.. no pup that was not a good show or more prosepct was allowed out to breed, either..got to love the 8 week old spay /neuter program lol!
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=83838


the other is a female who was tested very very hard and past each with flying colors (and yes..always into a bigger, better hog) I guess I do get too emotional about her lol..its just so hard to sit back and read that when you know you have a good dog..I'm not claiming she's the best in the world..far from it and sure..I bet theres plenty of better dogs out there but when it comes to to true abilities and what one should look for in an APBT / Bulldog..she has it. She's a good working dog..


http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=62555

[True_Bulldog]

I have to agree that just because a dog has AmStaff in them doesn't mean they are not or won't be a good dog. Take this dog http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=124550 I don't think at all we need to breed the two together or run breeding programs like this, but there have been good dogs with staff blood and ones who could continue to produce good dogs.

Now they are not full blooded APBT just because they have ADBA reg. and I do think that confuses a lot of people. I've seen pretty much full blooded AMSTAFFS reg as APBT with both the UKC and ADBA.

[1dogman]

I personally know some one in savannah that has several dogs from "big boi " and they are dead game. He also told me that all of there dogs in ATL are game. On the blue dog thing I kmow of a couple blue nose dogs that will hit a mack truck but they have never beaten a squirrel! They came out of mobsters pits in cali. (which by the way the breeder is a thief and crook) I also agree 100% on inbreeding bro to sis father to daughter brings out good and bad evenly, but when you have two close to perfect dogs which reflect the traits that you want I say run it! just do your homework on the ped. jmo

[True_Bulldog]

no pup that was not a good show or more prosepct was allowed out to breed, either..got to love the 8 week old spay /neuter program lol!

Rocksteady do you have the pups fixed @ 8 weeks. If so what is your experience with doing this. I've heard good and bad about this, vets who do it and some who wont. I have a show bitch that I'd like to breed sometime for conformation dogs and the pet quality to be altered before going to their homes.

[rocksteady]

Rocksteady do you have the pups fixed @ 8 weeks. If so what is your experience with doing this. I've heard good and bad about this, vets who do it and some who wont. I have a show bitch that I'd like to breed sometime for conformation dogs and the pet quality to be altered before going to their homes.

yes I do. Have never yet had any problems. I know that on the smaller female pups its sometimes better to wait a few more weeks since they're so small but over all, they heal faster and their hormones dont have a chance to get going lol. It ends alot of headaches..not knowing exactly what the new owners are planning (since many dont even care if they get papers or not) No matter how much checking you do..sometimes people are pretty good actors lol.

We've been getting pups fixed at 8 weeks since the mid 90's..


we also did the spay /neiter contract and required a refundable Down payment when proof was shown but even with that its sometimes a hassle... I mean. whats 50 tp a hundred dollars when you can breed and make $$$ (as they think)

And like all major surguries there are always some risk involved. our vet said that the longer one waits, the more chances you take of your dog coming down with problems later ..and that once their hormones get a flowing, many behaviors that could have been prevented from the spay or neuter dont always stop..

If your vet will do it that early, I'd do it. It does save alot of headaches and worries in the long run. And usually within a few days of surgury the pups can go to their new homes..