Is a Boston Terrier a pit bull?

[Mouser]

Looking at the history of different breeds, it states that boston terriers started out as match dogs bred by stable boys. They then became fashionable, and show breeders took them over, eventually changing the looks and very heart of the breed. Does anyone have any better history of them, with pics. The Boston Bulldog is supposedly original dogs kept by one family in that area, but they are very non-uniform, and look more like pitbull crosses. Any info would be appreciated.

[LegendsMami]

Here's some I found in a APBT book-

The ABPT and Boston Terrier were both called the "American Bull Terrier" at one point.

A brother breed to the the APBT is the Boston Terrier. The original Boston Terrier is clearly a very close relative of the original APBT. A number of books about the Boston Terrier make the following assertions:
~Both breeds were originally about the same size, approximately 35 pounds.
~Hopper's "Judge," the founding sire of the BT breed, was identified as a bull-and-terrier cross and was imported around 1865 from England by William O'Brien of Boston,Massachusetts.
~Judge, described as"more like a bulldog than a terrier" was dark brindle w/ white markings on his face and a white chest.
~Judge had cropped ears, a common surgery performed on pit dogs.
~Judge weighed 32 pounds and"...was a well-built and high stationed(tall) dog."
~Both breeds clearly demonstratd their bull and terrier heritage.
~An early name for the Boston was the "round-headed Bull and Terrier"
~Another early name for the Boston was also an early name for the APBT, the "American Bull Terrier"
~Both breeds are athletic and packed with power; prominent writers still remark on how much the physiques of the two breeds look alike.
~Both were originally bred and then imported to America for the same purpose-to fight in the pits against other dogs.
~From bull and terrier stock, imported to the US from Britain, the BT was number one on the AKC's list of most popular breeds in America for many years.
http://books.google.com/books?id=sYLARINQPkUC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=the+american+Pit+bull+terrier+handbook&sig=cKAnTXKu3lXUtX1adzBr7tl_vu4&hl=en
**All info from above is from The American Pit Bull Terrier Handbook by Joe Stahlkuppe**

Comparison. Colby's Logan(APBT) and Int.Ch. Oranjelust Royal Showman
U.S. Import (BT)
http://www.colbypitbull.com/logan.gif http://www.boston-terrier-dogs.net/roy_thumb.jpg

[Attila]

It is amazing how with selective breeding you can come up with something so far different over time.

Good history post points to ya.

[ABK]

Very good post Legend & quite interesting.

By all rights BTs should be considered "pit bulls" & I think it would be good if they were. Boy, you'd hear BT ppl screeching to the rafters if the BSL ppl tried to regulate their Bostons like they do our bullies. I have a funny feeling if BTs were put in the "pit bull" classification, that a lot of BSL would either suddenly go away or be fought viciously by an army of BT fanciers.

And Bostons are not innocent little creatures either. I know a fellow who keeps several Bostons & boy, those dogs will fight like the dickens.

[lunadogge]

Here are two websites that show some pictures of the original dogs and history of the Boston Bulldog http://designerbostons.homestead.com/HISTORY.html or http://oldbostonbulldogs.tripod.com/article-rutan.htm. I have both a boston terrier at 22 lbs lean (not bred for show) and a boston bulldog at 33lbs both dogs are exceptionally athletic. I run 5-6 days a week with them doing 3-6 miles a day with half of that being hills. Now I am the first to admit they are not game dogs but neither one backs down from any dog despite their size and they are very prey (toy) driven. Even when we run trails and come across a coyote, they want nothing more than to get at it and would if I didn't have them on leash. There is a big diffrence between the boston terriers being bred today, and it has to deal with breeder focus. Here are some pictures of my dogs and some old paintings of Bostons.

[pittychick]

I've heard several times that BTs were originally used for pit fighting, and were bred using APBT.

[lunadogge]

Here are some more paintings of bostons.

[Big Game]

Awsome poast. B.T.'s were pit dogs at one point huh. I dident know that, but it dosent suprise me. Those are some fisty little dogs.

[Mouser]

Here's some I found in a APBT book-

The ABPT and Boston Terrier were both called the "American Bull Terrier" at one point.

A brother breed to the the APBT is the Boston Terrier. The original Boston Terrier is clearly a very close relative of the original APBT. A number of books about the Boston Terrier make the following assertions:
~Both breeds were originally about the same size, approximately 35 pounds.
~Hopper's "Judge," the founding sire of the BT breed, was identified as a bull-and-terrier cross and was imported around 1865 from England by William O'Brien of Boston,Massachusetts.
~Judge, described as"more like a bulldog than a terrier" was dark brindle w/ white markings on his face and a white chest.
~Judge had cropped ears, a common surgery performed on pit dogs.
~Judge weighed 32 pounds and"...was a well-built and high stationed(tall) dog."
~Both breeds clearly demonstratd their bull and terrier heritage.
~An early name for the Boston was the "round-headed Bull and Terrier"
~Another early name for the Boston was also an early name for the APBT, the "American Bull Terrier"
~Both breeds are athletic and packed with power; prominent writers still remark on how much the physiques of the two breeds look alike.
~Both were originally bred and then imported to America for the same purpose-to fight in the pits against other dogs.
~From bull and terrier stock, imported to the US from Britain, the BT was number one on the AKC's list of most popular breeds in America for many years.
http://books.google.com/books?id=sYLARINQPkUC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=the+american+Pit+bull+terrier+handbook&sig=cKAnTXKu3lXUtX1adzBr7tl_vu4&hl=en
**All info from above is from The American Pit Bull Terrier Handbook by Joe Stahlkuppe**

Comparison. Colby's Logan(APBT) and Int.Ch. Oranjelust Royal Showman
U.S. Import (BT)
http://www.colbypitbull.com/logan.gif http://www.boston-terrier-dogs.net/roy_thumb.jpg The reason I was curious about this, someone recently posted asking for pics of different looking pit bulls that have been successful at the game, and Rock 14 mentions Randy Fox's website, and there were several screw tailed dogs???? Makes me wonder, lots of folks think that pitbulls are a breed of dog that has just been the same, I think that they are indeed a Bull and Terrier cross. Where have all of the screw tailed dogs gone? I think they have been pretty much bred out. Anyway thanks for all the comments, and I didn't think they were imported from England, but rather bred here in the states. They say on their web site a Truely American Made Dog, or something close to that. Great pics keep them coming, also what books are you talking about with the historys? I'd love to add them to my collection of dog books.

[coolhandjean]

Great post. Very informative.

[lunadogge]

Here is a link to download Edward Axtell's book The Boston Terrier and all about it from 1910. If you get the HTML version there are many photgraphs of the dogs and a lot of history on the development of the breed. He discusses how show dogs took one route while many people still wanted a larger dog that were capable in the countyside but adaptable to the city. http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/18033

[TENNESSEE]

there are still some out there...ol smokey is coming home sometime in the near future...and I have a daughter off him with a screw tail out back right now...they arent per say an actuall screw tail as more of kinks and maybe a half twist...anyways looking forward to smokey coming back...lots of plans for him

[castle]

The reason I was curious about this, someone recently posted asking for pics of different looking pit bulls that have been successful at the game, and Rock 14 mentions Randy Fox's website, and there were several screw tailed dogs???? Makes me wonder, lots of folks think that pitbulls are a breed of dog that has just been the same, I think that they are indeed a Bull and Terrier cross. Where have all of the screw tailed dogs gone? I think they have been pretty much bred out. Anyway thanks for all the comments, and I didn't think they were imported from England, but rather bred here in the states. They say on their web site a Truely American Made Dog, or something close to that. Great pics keep them coming, also what books are you talking about with the historys? I'd love to add them to my collection of dog books.
heres a pic of a terrier/old bulldog cross in England in 1910 he was named after the dog in the book


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/castle_010/jock.jpg

[Bullyson]

Thats pretty cool to know. I grew up with BTs and I had no idea they had ever been used in the box. If my Mom had known that we probably would have never owned em' in the first place.

[Mouser]

heres a pic of a terrier/old bulldog cross in England in 1910 he was named after the dog in the book


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/castle_010/jock.jpg
Nice pic, manchesters are pretty neat little dogs in their own right. The book they are referring to has been made into a movie, which I have and love to watch.

[LegendsMami]

Blue Boston!! lol:p He's a cutie!
http://colorfulbostons.com/images/im000395.jpg

[realonebulldog]

Looking at the history of different breeds, it states that boston terriers started out as match dogs bred by stable boys. They then became fashionable, and show breeders took them over, eventually changing the looks and very heart of the breed. Does anyone have any better history of them, with pics. The Boston Bulldog is supposedly original dogs kept by one family in that area, but they are very non-uniform, and look more like pitbull crosses. Any info would be appreciated. English bull terrier, Boston terrier, English (show) Bulldog, boxer this are 4 dog races from the real Bulldog (today APBT called) are descended. Without history and existence of the (real) Bulldogs there would be no Boston terriers. There would also not be many other dog races. Many.

[lockjaw]

my first dog was a boston terrier..and it would hunt and kill anything its size..they grab and shake..they are some cool little dogs..im kind of getting into patterdale terriers now..cool little dogs also.;)

[mdknaly]

I own an Olde Boston Bulldogge. They were what the BT's were breed down from back in the early part of last century. She is from Rutan bloodlines, the Rutan's have been breeding these dogs for over 50 years.

Look at my pictures and you'll see my gal "Hope" (black w/ white markings). Great dog, full of energy, very, very smart and just as happy as could be. Loves the flirt pole with a passion! She is not dog aggressive as far as I have seen in the 2 years I have had her but does not like strangers coming around the ole homestead!

There is a school of thought that the very few breeders of these dogs throw a APBT in the mix once in a while to help keep the genes fresh as well as to keep established some of the other qualities so desired from the APBT.

Great dogs, my now ex-wife was not fond of us getting an APBT so I got what I thought was the next best thing (and I have not been wrong).

Once we seperated (my ex and I) I went and got me an ADBA APBT. Both dogs are house and yard dogs who have enriched my life tremondously! I wouldn't trade them for nothing!

New girlfriend is a vet tech who loves the APBT, maybe I should marry her!

[coolhandjean]

im kind of getting into patterdale terriers now..cool little dogs also.;)Yeah, me too...I almost bought one, but might wait...I just got done reading, "The Patterdale Terrier" by: Sean Frain...You should check it out...It's very informative.

[realonebulldog]

my first dog was a boston terrier..and it would hunt and kill anything its size..they grab and shake..they are some cool little dogs..im kind of getting into patterdale terriers now..cool little dogs also.;) If you like patterdales you should inform yourself about german-hunting-terriers. Very good dogs.

[Mouser]

[QUOTE=coolhandjean]Yeah, me too...I almost bought one, but might wait...I just got done reading, "The Patterdale Terrier" by: Sean Frain...You should check it out...It's very informative.
[/QUOT

Not to sound harsh, but most true hunters consider that guys book a joke. I've thumbed through it, but didn't buy it. I have owned and hunted patterdales for 8-9 yrs. they are good dogs, but what they were made to do, hunt. Hopefully they will not go down the same road as all of the other working breeds before them. I guess the truth is that some people will keep them the way they are supposed to be, and others will turn them into pets, and show dogs. They are full of energy and really need a job to stay happy. Just like the bostons, it's a shame what show breeders have done to them, they can't hardly breathe, and have natural births. Look at the pics of the old tymie dogs from the downloadable book above, and see the difference. They have always had short muzzles, but nothing like the dogs of today. I'd like to know exactly when they changed. mdknaly, posted about your boston bull, sounds like a great animal, and no doubt in my mind that the theory you stated is true, about the pit bull blood being added regularly. I would bet that they were never the dogs they claim, but rather a boston mixed with a pit 50 yrs back. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with that at all. I'd rather see bostons brought back to their former state by the means of crossing a terrier with them, maybe a manchester, since that was supposedly the original cross.
Mouser

[coolhandjean]

If you like patterdales you should inform yourself about german-hunting-terriers. Very good dogs.Also, the Plummer Terrier is quite an interesting breed...It has bull terrier, Patterdale Terrier, and Beagle in it, I believe, and probably some others...
http://www.plummerterrier.com/dogbox/portal.php?page=5

[Mouser]

If you like patterdales you should inform yourself about german-hunting-terriers. Very good dogs.
Not hardly, most people that get one, can't stand them, they are terrible barkers, and will be gone in an instant in the woods. That's what they were made to do, find game, and kill it!!!! I personally know several people that have tried them for hunting dogs, but ended up getting rid of them, cause they were just too much dog. A few can and do keep them, but they have to learn to live with how they are, and most wear bark collars for the rest of their lives to tolerate their excessive barking. They are definately a dog that I would not refer for a novice dog owner, or a friend for that matter, LOL!
Mouser


P.S. I think you are very correct, about pit bull blood coursing through the veins of alot of popular breeds of dogs.

[badboy_caesar]

I don't know about all of you, but I always thought Sergeant Stubby looked more like a Boston Terrier...

http://www.dawnrestdogs.org/sgt_stubby_7.jpg
http://www.ig-apbt.org/img/srgt_stubby1.jpg
http://www.ig-apbt.org/img/srgt_stubby3.jpg

[Mouser]

I don't know about all of you, but I always thought Sergeant Stubby looked more like a Boston Terrier...

http://www.dawnrestdogs.org/sgt_stubby_7.jpg
http://www.ig-apbt.org/img/srgt_stubby1.jpg
http://www.ig-apbt.org/img/srgt_stubby3.jpg

Of the pics you put up, the first is of the actual dog alive, the second appears to be a totally different dog, and the last two are of Stubby stuffed so it's hard to tell, but I'd just be safe and say he was a bulldog, LOL!

[realonebulldog]

Not hardly, most people that get one, can't stand them, they are terrible barkers, and will be gone in an instant in the woods. That's what they were made to do, find game, and kill it!!!! I personally know several people that have tried them for hunting dogs, but ended up getting rid of them, cause they were just too much dog. A few can and do keep them, but they have to learn to live with how they are, and most wear bark collars for the rest of their lives to tolerate their excessive barking. They are definately a dog that I would not refer for a novice dog owner, or a friend for that matter, LOL!
Mouser


P.S. I think you are very correct, about pit bull blood coursing through the veins of alot of popular breeds of dogs. Thanks. I also think Bulldogs have no Mastiffblood . I believe mastiffs have Bulldogblood . These whole short-haired fight giants (for example Pressas) are the product of an ancient mixture of old Herdinghounds and Bulldogs.

[blue paul]

heres a pic of a terrier/old bulldog cross in England in 1910 he was named after the dog in the book


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/castle_010/jock.jpg
GREAT bit of info! check out my old english bulldog!

[pittbullky]

s up mouser get a chance come talk to me later man nice pics yall have

[Highbloodbulldog]

Of the pics you put up, the first is of the actual dog alive, the second appears to be a totally different dog, and the last two are of Stubby stuffed so it's hard to tell, but I'd just be safe and say he was a bulldog, LOL!
Completelly right, the secound photo is much recently, just made in gray tone. This Stubby's statue is ridicoulos, and averybody know this... it's very clear that Stubby was a bulldog, the soldier's histories that knew Stubby retrate him as a bulldog... no doubt... a great American Heroe.

Well said, Mouser!


No Boston or Boxer craps!

Don't push it, please! Stubby was a bulldog and that's all!

[Mouser]

s up mouser get a chance come talk to me later man nice pics yall have Will do, I've been out of town, my uncle died. Mouser

[Mrzbanjodogz]

My female Boston thinks she's a pit bull. She plays with the pit bull pups while they are small enough that they won't hurt hurt accidentally.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/mr_mrz_gdk/795112-R1-14-13A_015_0001.jpg

[Mouser]

My female Boston thinks she's a pit bull. She plays with the pit bull pups while they are small enough that they won't hurt hurt accidentally.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i275/mr_mrz_gdk/795112-R1-14-13A_015_0001.jpg She's cute. Yeah, you have to watch out for their buggy eyes getting damaged in rough play. Mouser

[Mrzbanjodogz]

She's cute. Yeah, you have to watch out for their buggy eyes getting damaged in rough play. Mouser
You hit the nail on the head!!! I had to separate her from my aduly male Boston because she POPPED his eye. Luckily with proper medical care he didn't lose it completely but it looked real bad for awhile!

[Mouser]

You hit the nail on the head!!! I had to separate her from my aduly male Boston because she POPPED his eye. Luckily with proper medical care he didn't lose it completely but it looked real bad for awhile!That's exactly why the original boston bulls didn't have such a smashed in nose, instead of breeding toward that, it needs to be corrected. I think I read where pug blood was added to create this problem. They are still neat little dogs, just not what they started out to be. Best of luck with your little pair, Mouser

[Mrzbanjodogz]

Thanks! They really are awesome little dogs! Very comical and low maintenance.

[pittbullky]

hey bud hows abby doin i'll try to come check on her soon hopin shes behavin later man