Gathering info: Different APBT's from the past.

[PirbulBongo]

Hello all.

As we all know the APBT standard is focused specially on the performance and for this reason it didnt matter the look of the dog as long as he did the work.

Because of this I'm writing an article for my website about APBT's that were phisically different but proved to be real bulldogs and gained the respect from everyone, so here is where i need help from you guys.

I need help on gathering info about those old good APBT's, if possible with apbt online pedigrees or a pic:

-Big headed, this doesnt mean big dogs, but had a good big head compared to body.
-Long muzzle or not pronunced stop.
-Short muzzle or strong stop.
-Stocky,big chest and short legs.
-Large, not tall but large on the body.
-Long legs or more "terrier" looking.
-Super extra loose skin.
-Super big teeth.
-Specially ugly.
-Specially good looking dog.
-Big dogs (catchweight).
-Small dogs.
-Long ears.
-Bat ears.
-Freak dogs: had curled tail,different color on eyes or something that is not "common" on APBT's but still proved to be good bulldogs.
-Different bites.
-"Rare" colors. (like tri-color,blue or even merle).


Thanks!

[blackjackjr_9]

Super big teeth

Thanks!
GR Ch Garret's Virgil amongous teeth and very ugly as well.
http://www.pitbullturkiye.com/album/albums/userpics/virgil%281%29.jpg

[miakoda]

For some great pictures, I suggest investing your money in Richrad Stratton's books. Plus, the info is very easy to read & I think it puts everything you need literally at your fingertips.

(also want to mention that the merle coloration never was, is, nor will be an APBT color ;) )

[ABK]

(also want to mention that the merle coloration never was, is, nor will be an APBT color ;) )Ahh, ahh, ahh. No telling tales out of school Mia. While you are free to be of the opinion that merles are mixed, according to the ADBA, merle has always been found in APBT. :D

BUT ... I will concur w/ that *some* so-called merle "APBTs" are NOT purebred.

Bongo - if you want to see a pic of a merle pit bull, you can find one in one of Richard Strattons books. The book is called the "Truth About the American Pit Bull Terrier." The dog's name is John Wayne & I think his pic is found on page 91.

[NOLEFAN]

The ADBA also says that APBTs are good watch dogs. I think everything they say is opinion, they even have a $1200 Blue for sale in the puppy section. I find it funny that the two registeries have somewhat of a different description of the breed. I am going to get a copy of that book though, sounds like it might be full of good info.

[PitBull_30]

IMO, the merle debate should be started in another thread. Not take over this one. :)

[PirbulBongo]

For some great pictures, I suggest investing your money in Richrad Stratton's books. Plus, the info is very easy to read & I think it puts everything you need literally at your fingertips.

(also want to mention that the merle coloration never was, is, nor will be an APBT color ;) )We have a good gallery thanks to game-dog and few others webs hehe.

The problem is sometimes is hard to see or compare dogs with just a couple pics.

For example, i've read Barracuda had super big teeth, i can see Colby's Twister had long legs,guess that Gr Ch Ross Red devil was a long dog and notice Zebo had a different head than most APBT's just by few pics.

So would be nice if everyone shared his thoughts/knowledge about this and gave their 0.2$, im not looking to start a study hehe just want to show on my article succesful bulldogs that were different from each other but still APBT.

Thanks and i'll try to look for this book, i have in mind to start a collection for myself and this could be a good start :P

[ABK]

IMO, the merle debate should be started in another thread. Not take over this one. :)I agree. The merle debate has been hashed & re-hashed & needs no discussion here. The only reason I spoke up on the matter was b/c one person was putting forth their opinion on the matter as a fact, when it is not a fact, but rather just what I said it was - their opinion.

If anyone has questions about merle in the APBT, feel free to PM me & I will be happy to discuss it. Or just type in the name "Howard Madison" in the search engine & you should get all the info you need.

But anyway, back to the OP's question, here are some dogs that might fit your criteria:

GR.CH. Barracuda (flewy & drop eared & just plain ugly)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=87736

RC & the Soso Boy's CH. Bronco: (bat ears)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=4519

GR.CH Mayday: (catchweight)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=560

Sorrell's CH. Uncle Bud ROM (flewy, wrinkly & just plain ugly)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=6836
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=10596

GR.CH. Lukane (good looking dog)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=2433

CH. Chinaman (good looking dog)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=26

Garner's Double Blade 2xw (Big teeth)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=26066

[realonebulldog]

I agree. The merle debate has been hashed & re-hashed & needs no discussion here. The only reason I spoke up on the matter was b/c one person was putting forth their opinion on the matter as a fact, when it is not a fact, but rather just what I said it was - their opinion.

If anyone has questions about merle in the APBT, feel free to PM me & I will be happy to discuss it. Or just type in the name "Howard Madison" in the search engine & you should get all the info you need.

But anyway, back to the OP's question, here are some dogs that might fit your criteria:

GR.CH. Barracuda (flewy & drop eared & just plain ugly)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=87736

RC & the Soso Boy's CH. Bronco: (bat ears)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=4519

GR.CH Mayday: (catchweight)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=560

Sorrell's CH. Uncle Bud ROM (flewy, wrinkly & just plain ugly)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=6836
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=10596

GR.CH. Lukane (good looking dog)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=2433

CH. Chinaman (good looking dog)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=26

Garner's Double Blade 2xw (Big teeth)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=26066 Uncle Bud and Barracuda look just playn ugly? Depends on the point of view I think they look like 625% Bulldogs....and to the big teeth dog...lol...he has only 4 teeth 2 for soup and 2 for Biscuits .

[ABK]

Yes, IMO Bud & Cuda are just plain out ugly. I saw one pic of Cuda where he looked more like a Fila than a bulldog & the pics of Bud I've seen he looks like a wrinkly old Neo.

As for Double Blade, did you notice how big, thick & long his cutters were? Can't deny that, even if he is missing a few teeth. Even the few incisor teeth he had left were big.

But if you disagree w/ my selections, that is fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I notice however that you had nothing to contribute to the OPs post. If you think my selections were poor ones, the floor is yours to contribute. ;)

[PirbulBongo]

Haha oh well, with ugly i meant something REALLY ugly, like deformed or something, i can see barracuda being ugly and looking more like a mutt than APBT (on that fila pic you said).

I've read Alligator was a ugly dog but for the pics i've seen i dont think so it all depends on the eyes you look at :P

Well, please keep giving out names on dogs that had different physical traits than most APBTs!

[GSDbulldog]

Burn's Hotdawg is pretty damn ugly,
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=60880

[PirbulBongo]

Burn's Hotdawg is pretty damn ugly,
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=60880Lol yeah.

No offense but his head reminds me one of those white whales lol

[14rock]

Many great dogs have had screwtails, under/overbites, big heads, hound ears, we abnormally big or small, etc etc. When breeding for performance, you sometimes get some odd looking animals. If you get a good one, who is to say that dog is "ugly" and a conformation show dog is not? Dendy is another dog that comes to mind, most will say is ugly, I love how him/Barracuda and other "odd" dogs look.

[PirbulBongo]

Many great dogs have had screwtails, under/overbites, big heads, hound ears, we abnormally big or small, etc etc. When breeding for performance, you sometimes get some odd looking animals. If you get a good one, who is to say that dog is "ugly" and a conformation show dog is not? Dendy is another dog that comes to mind, most will say is ugly, I love how him/Barracuda and other "odd" dogs look.Well, when you have time would be nice if you gave more info (like peds with pics or pics) of those great dogs. Im not really looking for ugly dogs lol, just physically different than others APBT's but were good performers.

Thanks.

[GSDbulldog]

Ugly or not, I'd own a dog down from 'Cuda anyday.

[14rock]

http://atilakennels.tripod.com/GRCH.htm Dendy

Randy Fox has a write-up and quite a few pictures of screwtails on his site, I don't have the link in front of me right now.

I'm looking trying to find some pictures for you, and it appears many of the more public forums are now "MIA", or the site has been suspended.

[PirbulBongo]

http://atilakennels.tripod.com/GRCH.htm Dendy

Randy Fox has a write-up and quite a few pictures of screwtails on his site, I don't have the link in front of me right now.

I'm looking trying to find some pictures for you, and it appears many of the more public forums are now "MIA", or the site has been suspended.Alright, here is our gallery: http://www.apbt-esp.net/modules.php?name=coppermine&cat=4

It's filled with pretty much the typical pics from the internet, if you find a dog with some of those traits mentioned above but that doesnt show on the pics let me know too.

I dont really wanna "waste" or make you guys work on findin a ton of pictures lol its just to prove with images the performance standard of APBT and the variety of different dogs.

I'll write some more on what we got later today so you guys can discuss if they are accurate to the description.

[realonebulldog]

Yes, IMO Bud & Cuda are just plain out ugly. I saw one pic of Cuda where he looked more like a Fila than a bulldog & the pics of Bud I've seen he looks like a wrinkly old Neo.

As for Double Blade, did you notice how big, thick & long his cutters were? Can't deny that, even if he is missing a few teeth. Even the few incisor teeth he had left were big.

But if you disagree w/ my selections, that is fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I notice however that you had nothing to contribute to the OPs post. If you think my selections were poor ones, the floor is yours to contribute. ;) ..... You know my problem is I am so one-sided. For me nothing is more insignificant than the appearance of a dog . I am interested not at all in dogshows or weight pulling.Showbreding has destroyed many pure and good working-races and weight pulling has given us giants-mutts . Only achievement counts. If I have a look at a dog like Bud or cuda, I see only limitless beauty and clearness . Working races never see uniformly from ...., however, her achievement is uniform and distinguishes them from ALL other nice show mutts .

[ABK]

I see your point about the "inner beauty" & all that, but the fact remains that physically Bud & Cuda are ugly dogs.

Yes, they were very good bulldogs, that is not in doubt. But no matter how well they perform, nothing will change those ugly mugs mother nature gave them. Now would I refuse to own Cuda or Bud b/c they were ugly? Heck no! I'd be happy to have a yard full of those homely rascals!

Here is another great dog I wish to submit that was often referred to as an ugly dog.

A & C's GR.CH. Art: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=6

Appears to be ugly as a mud fence, but I'd have sure have liked to have owned him! ;)

[PirbulBongo]

In my eyes Gr CH Art, always remind me a terrier looking dog for his head and body.

Keep em coming!

[coolhandjean]

..... Showbreding has destroyed many pure and good working-races and weight pulling has given us giants-mutts .Very true...I am currently reading a book about Patterdale Terriers (Fell Terriers), and the Author is explaining how many amazing working terriers just don't have that drive anymore, because of the Showring, though he also said many terriers still have the drive, but sometimes your "ugly" dog that wouldn't make it in the showring is one of your greatest workers.

[Old Timer]

I see your point about the "inner beauty" & all that, but the fact remains that physically Bud & Cuda are ugly dogs.

Yes, they were very good bulldogs, that is not in doubt. But no matter how well they perform, nothing will change those ugly mugs mother nature gave them. Now would I refuse to own Cuda or Bud b/c they were ugly? Heck no! I'd be happy to have a yard full of those homely rascals!

Here is another great dog I wish to submit that was often referred to as an ugly dog.

A & C's GR.CH. Art: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=6

Appears to be ugly as a mud fence, but I'd have sure have liked to have owned him! ;)just curious did you ever see Bud in person?

[realonebulldog]

I see your point about the "inner beauty" & all that, but the fact remains that physically Bud & Cuda are ugly dogs.

Yes, they were very good bulldogs, that is not in doubt. But no matter how well they perform, nothing will change those ugly mugs mother nature gave them. Now would I refuse to own Cuda or Bud b/c they were ugly? Heck no! I'd be happy to have a yard full of those homely rascals!

Here is another great dog I wish to submit that was often referred to as an ugly dog.

A & C's GR.CH. Art: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=6

Appears to be ugly as a mud fence, but I'd have sure have liked to have owned him! ;)No, I believe you do not understand me properly . If I say I like the appearance of the dogs (Bud, Cuda) then I mean it also in such a way .Beauty lies in the eye of the viewer .Maybe we also have in other things a different taste .

[realonebulldog]

Very true...I am currently reading a book about Patterdale Terriers (Fell Terriers), and the Author is explaining how many amazing working terriers just don't have that drive anymore, because of the Showring, though he also said many terriers still have the drive, but sometimes your "ugly" dog that wouldn't make it in the showring is one of your greatest workers.The best German dogs are the German hunting terriers. From good working races only for the work breed. This is so easy.