Dogmen - Culling ?

[Chef-Kergin]

Okay. I have a question about culling for those with experience, so please bare with me.

Outside of properly culling a cur, at what point would you start culling the stock for your breeding program?

Like, say you had a litter of 8 pups, and owned both the sire & dam (who were worth their salt) and planned on keeping them all. How critical would you be of the young dogs, and when would you start looking to culling as an option so as only the best of your stock was intact/still eating for possible use down the road? Would it be easier to make those selections each time you had a litter if it was a repeat breeding?

I'd imagine those who are following strict guidelines for their own program are pretty selective about the traits they want to see in a dog by the time it matures. Would that translate to being able to judge an older pup's behavior and deciding whether they should still be included in your program's gene pool?

I'm not talking about whether the pup wants to tangle with another pup, but just their personalities, responses to certains stimuli, etc etc. I've read about dogs who wouldn't fight back to save their lives when they were younger, but turned out to be destroyers later in life. Someone must've seen something in them to want to keep him around year after year after year.

Thanks in advance for your replies!

[jeeperino]

I currently have a litter of 7 pups I am keeping. This is the first time Ive kept an entire litter and its been a learning experience so far to say the least.

I wouldnt start to form much of an opinion on gameness until the dog is 18-24 mths at least. Its not fair to the dog to judge it ay earlier than that. Since the dogs mature at different paces Im willing to wait till they are 2- 2-1/2 before I decide if I want to cull.


Im not very critical of the pups, because I have learned that as soon as u start to form an opinion about one, it will do something to change your mind. Expect the unexpected from the unexpected is a good rule of thumb.

I have an article about culling that Ill post later today. Its a good read and makes u think.

[Chef-Kergin]

thanks for your reply; i'm sure you've got your hands full. you get all of them a cleared 25 ft chain spot yet? hehe.

i'm looking forward to reading the mentioned articel when it gets posted.

[jeeperino]

25 ft was my goal. I had to end up using about 15 ft chains because I got a good deal on 14 ft lengths and decided I can always add more length if needed in the future.

I cleared and made 3 new ones so far. I have to get more hardware and etc.. for the other 3 spots.

[purplepig]

If you know the bloodline, or the traits you are looking for it makes it allot better. That is why most should not inbreed, as they wouldnt know the bad traits from the good.

Anyhow, at different intervals you can find different characteristics to justify a cull. Physical defects, if the pup is a turner(one that will turn on you and bite you) you can tell that before they are mature. After a reasonable amount of time, I wouldnt want one that wasnt confident. All of these should be a very small percentage, and even then, if I got that feeling, I'd wait it out. The majority of the time, it is good to wait till they are about two, although some dont make good till 3 or 4, so how patient are you?

Blast me for this if you want to, but I have had good success with this method, I follow my 6th sense. some folks have wonderful luck with plants, I have been very lucky with bulldogs. I have put two bulldogs together and folks said I was downbreeding, and the pups come out top notch! Wasnt much, just LUCK! And I couldnt explain why they turned out like that. A fella asked me why that bulldog I had was so good, and what I looked for, and I just couldnt articulate it, I just knew it.

[14rock]

I have also have an entire litter in my basement, of which I will keep every one of them. Of course, I have my favorties (almost 5 weeks), but they will all get the exact same chance later in life, provided they all mature correctly and no genetic problems arise. My situation is a bit diffrent, because I have a litter possibly sired by two studs, both of which are 1/2 brothers. One is a fantastic performer, the other is an average performer, but bred to produce where their pedigrees differ. I am pretty confident I know which pups are of which studs, and the ratio is 4-1. Possibly 3-2, 1 is a toss up and dna will need to be done in the future if he works out. I very much favor our breeding to the stellar performer, but the other 1 (possibly 2) will be given the exact same opportunities. Since I am keeping them all, I do not even want to DNA the puppies, as it may cause me to be more judgemental in the future-and that is unfair. Once they have all shown me what they have, I will DNA the ones sticking around. If your not confident in the breeding, do not do it. If your not willing to raise all of them to possibly 3+ years before you know, do not raise them at all.

I liked in JC Shaws book, how he mentioned he simply took what was left of a litter, as they all have the exact same chance of being good. This is diffrent from most breeders, in that they will take the best LOOKING, or ACTING pup out of the bunch, and sell the "lesser"-individuals at 8 weeks, or whenever. Every pup changes, and it's very hard to tell which traits will present themselves in 12 months, and which will disappear. I've seen litters of pups where at 4 weeks, I had my picks based on their conformation and tempermant. 4-5 weeks later, all the pups had flip-flopped. The most shy, homely looking puppy was now the most healthy and outgoing. The bigger outgoing puppies, were now the ones to remain by themselves. A few more weeks passed, and they were all very similar, as should be from a fairly tight family breeding.

Sure I've got my favorites now, but I fully anticipate them to throw me a curveball in the coming weeks, months, and years-and I'm prepared for that. Keep em all, then you don't have to guess :D

[Chef-Kergin]

pp and 14 - thanks for your replies fellas!

[Chef-Kergin]

*bumpety bump*

anyone else have any opinions they'd liketo share?

[Chef-Kergin]

- bumped again -