Hypothetical Question

[Michele]

This is strictly a hypothetical question.

If you had to make the decision in order to keep your breed alive and by making certain choices as in breeding out gameness and DA in the breed, would you do it? And if you did this it would be the end of BSL. Would you do it?

I was just thinking about BSL stuff this morning (I always think about BSL)while drinking my coffee and I'm curious as to what you guys would do. Since this site has the most knowledgable apbt owners here, I would like your opinions. Thanks.

[Pitbull219]

If we did that it would end the breed quicker than any BSL ever could.....

[GSDbulldog]

What would be the point of preserving the breed if all your are preserving is an empty shell? Pitbull219 said it best.

[pittychick]

There would be no more APBT...every dog would turn out to be an AmStaff.

If it did end up being that BSL would end if we bred out DA and gameness, in order to save the bullies in general I'd have to think about it. I mean, I would rather be able to have an AmStaff or Staffy <b>if</b> it was the <b>LAST</b> option. If fighting wasn't an option anymore, if the government was ready to kill every single bully dog if we denied I would go for it perhaps (providing those APBT that were still alive would be left to live).

Of course that will never happen. We won't allow it. :D

[lockjaw]

hell no!!!!!!!!!!thats like saying go buy a blue dog...

[pittychick]

Either way you don't have APBT anymore if I'm reading the situation correctly. Would it turn out to be if we can have APBT than we can't have any bullies? Or would we rather be able to at least save other dogs' lives?

[Michele]

If it did end up being that BSL would end if we bred out DA and gameness, in order to save the bullies in general I'd have to think about it. yes, this is what i was trying to say. Would you do it if this was the case? And thanks in advance for all your answers. :)

[Suki]

If we did that it would end the breed quicker than any BSL ever could.....

i agree.
imo, there would be absolutely NO reason to TRY to preserve the APBT then. none.

[jdbpitbull]

DA and gameness and most of all heart is what makes the apbt the apbt and if we bred it out of them then we would just have another mutt! they wouldnt have the willingness to please and the affection and all around loyalty that they have now so what would be the point of saying we are preserving them when it wouldnt even be them!

[jaystreetsA4]

Gameness is the hallmark of the breed. Along with courage, loyalty and strength. No retreat No surrender whne it comes to my beloved breed.


- Jay

[dogged]

IMO, no. There's no point in having a Lab (or insert other breed here) in pit bull's clothing. Why bother?

[CRG]

No, gameness is what i admire in this breed.Even if it would stop bsl i would not do it.

[Red Cocaine]

DA and gameness and most of all heart is what makes the apbt the apbt and if we bred it out of them then we would just have another mutt! they wouldnt have the willingness to please and the affection and all around loyalty that they have now so what would be the point of saying we are preserving them when it wouldnt even be them!

Gameness not DA

[Michele]

Gameness not DA
good catch because they are 2 totally different things....

[bahamutt99]

Would I change the breed to save it from BSL? Hmm... Probably not. That's still giving up the fight in a way. Myself personally, I can live without the aggression, but I do that by not allowing it to happen. While I don't see the point of selectively breeding for dog-aggression, I also wouldn't eliminate a dog from a program because of it.

[lockjaw]

i dont think d.a. or gameness is a factor..i would accept having every pitbull tested for H.A. ..and those that failed be culled..that every pitbull owner must take a test on dog health,pitbull history,and proper training..and pass to own one..that every pitbull be scanable licenced and registered to the owner..and the owner must have a 5000 dallor insurance on the dog for animal injury.this would get rid of all byb,blue ha mutts..and purify the breed as a whole..there would be no more ha dogs..in the paper..any other mutt that bit someone would not scan as a pitbull..and could not be called a pitbull by the papers..and if by chance a pitbull kills another dog..you would have the 5000 dallor insurance to cover it...its not the true breed looking bad...its bad owners and so called mutt pitbulls doing it.

[14rock]

Lockjaw, what you propose is in fact, BSL.

Would I change the breed to "save" it? You must understand how ridiculous that sounds. If you change the breed, there is nothing to be saved. There is a new breed, which may be a very good looking shell of it's former self, but who cares about looks. That is like asking Ferrari owners if they would swap their v12 engines, for 4 cylinder econo motors because "They look the same, and you don't NEED such performance". To change the breed, is to force extinction.

This would not be an end to BSL, it would only be the end to "pitbulls" being on the list (supposing: 1.) It was even possible and 2.) The idiots who pass these laws were receptive). BSL is wrong, no matter what breed is being targeted. For one group to tuck tail and run, leaving the others to fight alone against something so blatantly wrong, is a curs way out.

[CrazyK9]

No way in hell! ...but even if I said yes, it wouldn't stop the BSL. ASTs, SBTs, and bullies have been bred away from gameness and dog aggression for very many years now, but they are still being targeted by BSL.

Besides, it's typically not our pure and well bred dogs that are out there causing all this madness so it wouldn't have much effect, if any, on stopping "pit bull" attacks and the resulting ban on these dogs. It is the ignorant or outright stupid people who are throwing dogs, regardless of temperament, together for any reason other than personal use and/or to preserve the breed's standard that are pumping out dogs like crazy and allowing their "pit bulls" to make headlines.

We cannot put an end to BYBs and puppymills through legislation without compromising our own rights. That is what I have come to believe. The only thing that might make an indent in the number of ill-bred bully type dogs, and their attacks on people and pets, is more shelters prohibiting the adoption of pit bulls and more individuals reporting grossly irresponsible dog owners that may put the public in danger. I know some people will have a problem with that first one, but most dogs that end up in shelters are not properly bred anyway.

[miakoda]

Here's my 2 cents:

Look at the modern day [English] Bulldog. It was formed in an effort to preserve the original Bulldog w/out having to deal with the working drive, DA, etc. Was it worth it? And if you think it was, who is paying the ultimate price? Not you.

[purplepig]

Well, the way I see it is this. The more bulldogs are bred for looks and show, the less they are bred for the go. Seein's how over the last, oh lets just look over the last 15 years, more bulldogs have been bred for the looks than the heart than ever before in the history of the breed. Now, fighting illlegal, breeding game and drive and aggression out of them, what has been the result? I tell you what has been the result. Now you have "bulldogs" that when a person goes to pet them, they bite them in the face! It is total bs to say that a dog who is game is human aggressive!
I did some work for a chiropractor this week. Well, in the course of the work I spoke to them bout my dogs, of course. Showed some pics, described personallities, and educated them. On Friday, I took Alligator up there for them to see him. He's the one in my sig pic. When it comes to dogs, he only wants to fight them. Dont want to breed, wants to get into it. According to the media, this is the dog to watch out for. Well I had them women who worked there go out and pet my Alligator. They returned saying, "oh he is the sweetest most affectionate dog I have ever seen!" I said, "remeber that dog I told you about that lived and breathed for the hope to sink his teeth into another dog?" "yes", "well ladies, that's him!"
They couldnt believe a dog as I had described to them would be like that towards a human!
So, In my mind, the downbreeding of a bulldog, which is what you described, who lead politicians to say, "well, that didnt work, so now lets kill them" and they would have far more statistics to justify it at that point. Down breed the bulldog, and you have a unpredictable animal.

[Marty]

I agree with you 100%

Enjoy the reps :D
Well, the way I see it is this. The more bulldogs are bred for looks and show, the less they are bred for the go. Seein's how over the last, oh lets just look over the last 15 years, more bulldogs have been bred for the looks than the heart than ever before in the history of the breed. Now, fighting illlegal, breeding game and drive and aggression out of them, what has been the result? I tell you what has been the result. Now you have "bulldogs" that when a person goes to pet them, they bite them in the face! It is total bs to say that a dog who is game is human aggressive!
I did some work for a chiropractor this week. Well, in the course of the work I spoke to them bout my dogs, of course. Showed some pics, described personallities, and educated them. On Friday, I took Alligator up there for them to see him. He's the one in my sig pic. When it comes to dogs, he only wants to fight them. Dont want to breed, wants to get into it. According to the media, this is the dog to watch out for. Well I had them women who worked there go out and pet my Alligator. They returned saying, "oh he is the sweetest most affectionate dog I have ever seen!" I said, "remeber that dog I told you about that lived and breathed for the hope to sink his teeth into another dog?" "yes", "well ladies, that's him!"
They couldnt believe a dog as I had described to them would be like that towards a human!
So, In my mind, the downbreeding of a bulldog, which is what you described, who lead politicians to say, "well, that didnt work, so now lets kill them" and they would have far more statistics to justify it at that point. Down breed the bulldog, and you have a unpredictable animal.

[ghost 1]

good catch because they are 2 totally different things....
not really they're not,,,they go hand in hand,,,

I understand the point ur trying to make but no
if you try to change it then it wouldn't be the same dog,,
Most ppl don't know or yet do they understand the willing ness of a apbt to turn on so to speak,, some absolutely love it and some don't but you can see which will and which won't early on,,,

gameness and DA is a pit bull,, that what has made them what they are

[lockjaw]

Lockjaw, what you propose is in fact, BSL.

Would I change the breed to "save" it? You must understand how ridiculous that sounds. If you change the breed, there is nothing to be saved. There is a new breed, which may be a very good looking shell of it's former self, but who cares about looks. That is like asking Ferrari owners if they would swap their v12 engines, for 4 cylinder econo motors because "They look the same, and you don't NEED such performance". To change the breed, is to force extinction.

This would not be an end to BSL, it would only be the end to "pitbulls" being on the list (supposing: 1.) It was even possible and 2.) The idiots who pass these laws were receptive). BSL is wrong, no matter what breed is being targeted. For one group to tuck tail and run, leaving the others to fight alone against something so blatantly wrong, is a curs way out.my whole point pitbulls are different than other dogs ..like it or not..they are better..and they will always be different..but certain laws adds to petas firepower on trying to ban the breed as a whole..so if i had to fallow somelaws to be able to own a pitbull vs.not being able to own one..so be it..most people live in the world of a couple of forums and think ..oh people are starting to like pitbulls...i signed up on youtube..and i want to go and beat the hell out of some of these people.. to them pitbulls are all baby killers and vicious..im gamebred14 on you tube ..thats a great place to bash someone.why did bsl get voted in to place in the first place..because of all the not gamebred..backyard pitbulls biting people..so when the public votes on a law on pitbull..they dont see our dogs in mind..they see what they watched on the news..i would like a law that seperated the weak from the obsolete..if it wasnt for byb and gansta pitbulls..we wouldnt have this problem..to deal with a problem go to the core..

[DryCreek]

I'd rather move to another country than agree to change the breed for any reason.

I agree with PurplePig


Originally Posted by purplepig
Well, the way I see it is this. The more bulldogs are bred for looks and show, the less they are bred for the go. Seein's how over the last, oh lets just look over the last 15 years, more bulldogs have been bred for the looks than the heart than ever before in the history of the breed. Now, fighting illlegal, breeding game and drive and aggression out of them, what has been the result? I tell you what has been the result. Now you have "bulldogs" that when a person goes to pet them, they bite them in the face! It is total bs to say that a dog who is game is human aggressive!

[Chef-Kergin]

pp - great post! gotta spread rep points around before giving them to you again.

[JRSPITS]

First of all I would never change these dogs. Gameness is what makes them what they are, without it we might as well own a poodle.

Second, if this is a last resort how much time would they give us to breed out gameness. I think it would take more than a couple of generations to get rid of it- if we even could. I don't think they would have the patientce to wait and see. It would be a death sentance to all of our dogs.

[NCPatchwork]

This is my thoughts on this:

A breed is not only known by its looks but also by its personality traits...I believe the personality of a dog is just as much of the whole body of the dog as the color or the size. If we took out the DA, we would be changing the breed completely. It would not longer be an AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER...Change one thing about a breed and it is no longer in its original form. I hate to say it like this, but I would rather have my APBT in its true form than anything the goverment could control. I know we would never let this happen, but if it did...I wouldn't want that "new" breed at all.

[Turner]

Good replys everybody. Nuthin left to say.

[Attila]

This is strictly a hypothetical question.

If you had to make the decision in order to keep your breed alive and by making certain choices as in breeding out gameness and DA in the breed, would you do it? And if you did this it would be the end of BSL. Would you do it?

I was just thinking about BSL stuff this morning (I always think about BSL)while drinking my coffee and I'm curious as to what you guys would do. Since this site has the most knowledgable apbt owners here, I would like your opinions. Thanks.I would rather shoot my dogs my self than do something that sick. that is Blasphemous.

But one thing is for sure. I would be waiting it out and take as many people with them in a hail of fire. And if I died too that would be perfect. Those that push BSL can kiss my Magyar ass and burn in hell. Any one that thinks they can tell me what to do has me screwed up with some other Mutha phucker.

[Michele]

not really they're not,,,they go hand in hand,,,

I understand the point ur trying to make but no
if you try to change it then it wouldn't be the same dog,,
Most ppl don't know or yet do they understand the willing ness of a apbt to turn on so to speak,, some absolutely love it and some don't but you can see which will and which won't early on,,,

gameness and DA is a pit bull,, that what has made them what they are
Dog agression is just that. Dog on dog agression. Gameness has absolutely nothing to do with dog agression. A dog can be full of game but not give a care about other dogs. A dog can be dog agressive but there can be something between him and another dog to deter him from getting to it, whereas a gamedog won't let anything get in the way of what it wants. Also, while a dog agressive dog may want to fight with another dog there is a good chance he will tire out and quit, while a gamedog won't quit. If i'm not correct, someone please correct me. Thanks.....

[purplepig]

Dog agression is just that. Dog on dog agression. Gameness has absolutely nothing to do with dog agression. A dog can be full of game but not give a care about other dogs. A dog can be dog agressive but there can be something between him and another dog to deter him from getting to it, whereas a gamedog won't let anything get in the way of what it wants. Also, while a dog agressive dog may want to fight with another dog there is a good chance he will tire out and quit, while a gamedog won't quit. If i'm not correct, someone please correct me. Thanks.....
Nope. Your right. I have seen gr.ch. that would lay and play with other dogs, but when they put that dog in the [], back in the day, it was a different story. Some may not believe that, but those who are in the know, know this. Now that doesnt mean a gamedog cant be DA.