What makes you think.........

[Scratchy]

I am very well aware of the standard in APBTs and I'm not here say my dogs are better than anybody elses in way, shape or form because that's just based off of personal opinion. How in the hell can we sit here and say that smaller APBTs' are more agile, quicker, long winded and energetic than the ones on the larger end of the scale. It scrapes my skin when I hear a dog can't be as athletic as Joe Blows dog because Joe Blows dog is smaller in weight. I have a male in the 60lb range and he works every other day and is lean as an APBT can get. He's got the stamina and drive to run 50 suicides on a football field. I'll tell you one advantage I like about him. His back end is smaller and his front is large and he knows how to powerdrive with his back legs to get full force of his frontend.

Remember that this is my opinion and what I say hasn't been proven and if it ever was it would be a match to go down into history. Like I've stated this is all from my personal point of view. Take two dogs with the same rank but different weight classes and power will out measure quickness.

[ABK]

Power will only outmeasure quickness IF the powerful dog can pin the quick one! ;)

(BTW don't think I have a prejudice against big dogs - I once had an 83 lb male & 65 lb female who were hell on paws!)

[Scratchy]

Power will only outmeasure quickness IF the powerful dog can pin the quick one! ;)
That's why I say to take two dogs with the same ranking.

[ericschevy]

Well, I have a 80 lb'er (Zues and a 58 lb'er (Rocky) and let me tell ya Zues wouldn't stand a chance, Rocky can run circles around him..
However if Zues was to get a hold of him that would be a different story!!!
That "Extra" 20 lbs or so would be to his advantage...
Disclaimer: Hypothetically speaking!! I don't let mine fight...

[ABK]

That's why I say to take two dogs with the same ranking.
I didn't say they weren't of the same ranking. It could be two 80 lb'ers going toe to toe. That wouldn't change the fact that all the power in the world is worth nil if you're pushing against dead air. Gotta catch 'em first! ;)

[Scratchy]

Well, I have a 80 lb'er (Zues and a 58 lb'er (Rocky) and let me tell ya Zues wouldn't stand a chance, Rocky can run circles around him..
However if Zues was to get a hold of him that would be a different story!!!
That "Extra" 20 lbs or so would be to his advantage...
Disclaimer: Hypothetically speaking!! I don't let mine fight...
Come on now, you're missing the point. You got two dogs who probably have never been introduced to a keep or any form of strict conditioning to prepare for an extreme sport that last a good while and neither of the dogs are probably not even ranked within the [].

I'm asking a hypothetical question to get a clear understanding of what people think two dogs ranked the same within the [] with different weigth classes would have as an outcome.

[Scratchy]

I didn't say they weren't of the same ranking. It could be two 80 lb'ers going toe to toe. That wouldn't change the fact that all the power in the world is worth nil if you're pushing against dead air. Gotta catch 'em first! ;)If he can't catch'em, then the other dog aint close enough to be caught or engage in the event at all.


EDIT: and believe me, an APBT in the 60lb range is far from being slow.

[ericschevy]

Come on now, you're missing the point. You got two dogs who probably have never been introduced to a keep or any form of strict conditioning to prepare for an extreme sport that last a good while and neither of the dogs are probably not even ranked within the [].

I'm asking a hypothetical question to get a clear understanding of what people think two dogs ranked the same within the [] with different weigth classes would have as an outcome.
Mybad!! What exactly do you mean by ranked the same??
Sorry, still learning..:D

[Scratchy]

Mybad!! What exactly do you mean by ranked the same??
Sorry, still learning..:D
If they both had the same amount of experience, as if both had an equal amount of wins and were both in tip-top shape.

[ericschevy]

Well, I'm no expert in any way but it seem to me like I said earlier that the extra weight could be used to their advantage...I'm just guessing though...

[ABK]

I have owned both. When I got started I owned an 83 lb male, a 65 lb male & two 65 lb females. As I grew in the breed, I became interested in standard game dogs & found out dogs 40 lbs & under could do anything a big dog could do, but they ate less, pooped less & were easier to care for.

Sure, my big dogs were powerhouses, but their wind usually wasn't as good, they usually weren't as agile & their atheticism usually wasn't as good.

But to answer the OP's question, if 2 dogs of equal measure were to meet but one ws powerful & one was quick, I'd have to say the quicker dog would be the victor. I say this as I have seen/heard of quick dogs running a powerful dog into the ground by letting him run out of gas then going in for the kill. This has happened countless upon countless times when quickness meets power.

BUT ... that quick dog had better be careful, b/c I have also seen quick dogs not be quick enough & get caught in the crushing grip of a powerful dog. If that happens then they'll be in a bad way until they get loose.

[Scratchy]

I'd have to say the quicker dog would be the victor.I'm still not seeing how you get that answer if they are both is the best shape. It makes no physical sense. When both dogs are tired then they are both tired, after that it's all about drive and who has the most to finish. This is assuming they are both considered "game".

I say this as I have seen/heard of quick dogs running a powerful dog into the ground by letting him run out of gas then going in for the kill.Yaeh but how many people actually match smaller dogs to bigger dogs for a legitimate match?

This has happened countless upon countless times when quickness meets power.
That sounds like a bunch of people just seeing what their dog can do.

[lipshipsattitude]

In my opinion its not about one being better then the otehr....its about the physical capability of the dog. My family uses pit bulls for boar hunting and the larger ones (genreally speaking, not in every case) are not physically capable for a hunt because of......


-agility- their bulk does not allow for moving as fast, getting out of the way of a tusk or even launching itself in the air to get out of the way
-soft palletes- a lot of overgorwn bullies are born with this condition which is very common in their cousin's the english bulldog which does not allwo for them to breath easily when under extreme physical exhaution, they sweat adn cool off through their nose
-barrel chests/respiratory problems- the extreme barrel chests are wider then they are deep which really weigh them down, they are so front heavy and it leaves them vulnerable to respiratory issues and infections
-bowed elbows- Upright or loaded shoulders; elbows turned outward or tied-in; down at the pasterns; front legs bowed; wrists knuckled over; toeing in or out is more common in the larger pits, its just not proportionate or safe, haha
-stamina- a lot of these dogs do great in weight pull but lack actual stamina. Its a common trend to work them on a spring pole which helps build muscle but not stamina

[lipshipsattitude]

Take two dogs with the same rank but different weight classes and power will out measure quickness.Like the one guy said IF the fatty can catch the smaller one. Rory plays with a big pit bull adn he couldnt catch her if his life depended on it, he cant keep up with her and has to take many rest breaks. When we take them swimming its so sad, he wants to play all day and the owner actually has to pull him out of the water and force him to take a break, he over heats himself.

[ABK]

I'm still not seeing how you get that answer if they are both is the best shape.
They both might be in the best shape they can be, but one dog's best shape might not be as best as the other's best shape. For example, if I am in my best shape & you are in your best shape you probably will still be able to out run me.

It makes no physical sense. When both dogs are tired then they are both tired, after that it's all about drive and who has the most to finish. This is assuming they are both considered "game".
I didn't think we were talking about drive, finish or gameness? I thought the question was about quickness & power. And a quicker dog - even when tired can outmanuver a powerful dog.

Yaeh but how many people actually match smaller dogs to bigger dogs for a legitimate match?
No one said anything about matching dogs of different weights.

That sounds like a bunch of people just seeing what their dog can do.
Yup.

[Scratchy]

In my opinion its not about one being better then the otehr....its about the physical capability of the dog. My family uses pit bulls for boar hunting and the larger ones (genreally speaking, not in every case) are not physically capable for a hunt because of......


-agility- their bulk does not allow for moving as fast, getting out of the way of a tusk or even launching itself in the air to get out of the way
-soft palletes- a lot of overgorwn bullies are born with this condition which is very common in their cousin's the english bulldog which does not allwo for them to breath easily when under extreme physical exhaution, they sweat adn cool off through their nose
-barrel chests/respiratory problems- the extreme barrel chests are wider then they are deep which really weigh them down, they are so front heavy and it leaves them vulnerable to respiratory issues and infections
-bowed elbows- Upright or loaded shoulders; elbows turned outward or tied-in; down at the pasterns; front legs bowed; wrists knuckled over; toeing in or out is more common in the larger pits, its just not proportionate or safe, haha
-stamina- a lot of these dogs do great in weight pull but lack actual stamina. Its a common trend to work them on a spring pole which helps build muscle but not staminaSorry, the dogs you're describing sound like poorly bred dogs and/or not up to par on conditioning. I'm talking about APBTs who have been proven and ranked the same within the [] with high levels of conditioning.

[Scratchy]

BTW: this is hypothetical but could pose some hard truth if it ever happened

[lipshipsattitude]

Ok I did say "generally speaking"......and where I'm from a majority of the oversized bullies are poorly bred so it does make sense. I'm not attacking your dog personally. You asked for opinions and from a hunting stand point that is my opinion. Sure they may not all be suseptable to those health issues but we wont take the risk and put money into them when our life relies on them in the field.

[14rock]

Scratchy, it's probably best not to argue points which you don't know about. The best style of dog, is one who can keep the other out while inflicting damage of his own. As ABK said,"it doesn't matter how powerful you are if your pushing dead air". For a non-dogfighting analogy, have you ever wrestled? The strongest man isn't the one who wins most of the time, if competing against a more agile opponent who knows how to use angles. Using angles is nothing more then being smart and quick enough to avoid a lateral power struggle. It's no secret, and it's the reason I was wrestling the heavyweight division when I was outweighed by 50+ pounds every match. There are some very agile big guys, and big dogs. But to compare a agile heavyweight (catchweight) to a agile 30 lb. dog, is two totally diffrent things. As it should be, they aren't matched into eachother for a reason! The fighting style I refer to is generally refered to as a "slick head dog". It is entirely possile to inflict damage while taking virtually none, just as well as it is possible to control the pace of the fight. Couple that with the other dog "carrying" the head dog around (Riding the head, with both front legs "tucked") and pushing to catch up to him, he's going to be very frustrated he can't get a hold, and very tired, very soon.

[lipshipsattitude]

So what are your stnadards for bred well with the exceeding weiht of the breed standard?

From a breeding stand point do you support the testing of.....

Aortic stenosis/sub-aortic stenosis
OFA Hips
OFA Thyroid
Corneal dystrophy
Holter Monitor:
OFA Heart
CERF

because any less of htese tests when breeding IS poor breeding. Breeding for color and size is NOT a reason to breed

[Saiyagin]

Damn what yall talken about? LOL.....Usually the bigger dog has the advantage over the smaller dog but thats is the norm as size does matter to a degree. Thats why we have weights. Like in most fighting sports like boxing, kickboxing,cock fighting and MMA etc...they all have weights or weight classes. You watch the fly weight boxers fight they real fast and can go the whole 12 rounds non stop action while the heavy weights are slower and get tired within the 5th round lol but if you put the heavy weight boxer against the fly weight boxer my money is on the heavy weight no matter how fast agile or skilled the fly weight boxer is all it takes is one crack and he out lol.

[14rock]

Agreed Saiyagin, but at similar weights, the more agile is likely to win, if he has good conditioning.

[Scratchy]

Scratchy, it's probably best not to argue points which you don't know about. The best style of dog, is one who can keep the other out while inflicting damage of his own. As ABK said,"it doesn't matter how powerful you are if your pushing dead air". For a non-dogfighting analogy, have you ever wrestled? The strongest man isn't the one who wins most of the time, if competing against a more agile opponent who knows how to use angles. Using angles is nothing more then being smart and quick enough to avoid a lateral power struggle. It's no secret, and it's the reason I was wrestling the heavyweight division when I was outweighed by 50+ pounds every match. There are some very agile big guys, and big dogs. But to compare a agile heavyweight (catchweight) to a agile 30 lb. dog, is two totally diffrent things. As it should be, they aren't matched into eachother for a reason! The fighting style I refer to is generally refered to as a "slick head dog". It is entirely possile to inflict damage while taking virtually none, just as well as it is possible to control the pace of the fight. Couple that with the other dog "carrying" the head dog around (Riding the head, with both front legs "tucked") and pushing to catch up to him, he's going to be very frustrated he can't get a hold, and very tired, very soon.
That is why I said hypothetically, because I have never see nor heard of a such a match where two dogs were equal in everything except weight and I doubt that such a match would take place for the record books. So yes you are right, I don't have any experience in this field nor wrestling.
I still don't see why someone would think a bigger dog wouldn't be as agile and quick. Great conditioning on both ends makes for a good match, IMO. 60lbs aint that heavy, especially when conditioned.

[Scratchy]

Damn what yall talken about? LOL.....Usually the bigger dog has the advantage over the smaller dog but thats is the norm as size does matter to a degree. Thats why we have weights. Like in most fighting sports like boxing, kickboxing,cock fighting and MMA etc...they all have weights or weight classes. You watch the fly weight boxers fight they real fast and can go the whole 12 rounds non stop action while the heavy weights are slower and get tired within the 5th round lol but if you put the heavy weight boxer against the fly weight boxer my money is on the heavy weight no matter how fast agile or skilled the fly weight boxer is all it takes is one crack and he out lol.
Bigger dogs can float like a butterfly too;) . Agility is all about training and conditioning.

[ABK]

No one said big dogs couldn't move. I once knew of a 65 lb male who had moves like Fred Astare.

Your original question was who would win out if all things were equal save for one was powerful & one was quick. I say quickness b/c even if the other dog is powerful, they all have their breaking point & all the quick dog has to do is just evade the power dog until he's wore out them go in & finish him off.

Now, the powerful dog will have an advantage IF he can catch the quick dog. But he has to catch him first! :D

Heck, I heard of a 45 lb pit bull whipping the tar out of a 130 lb Neo. I know, I know it wasn't a match, but I'm just giving it as an example - she just danced around him until she saw her opening. She got a good elbow hold where she could work her hold but he couldn't get to her & she worked her hold until he was just a panting puddle on the ground.

Despite the fact that he could probably bitten her in half had he wanted to, he couldn't catch her & she ended up the victor in spite the fact that he was much more powerful & vastly outweighed her.

[Scratchy]

No one said big dogs couldn't move. I once knew of a 65 lb male who had moves like Fred Astare.

Your original question was who would win out if all things were equal save for one was powerful & one was quick. I say quickness b/c even if the other dog is powerful, they all have their breaking point & all the quick dog has to do is just evade the power dog until he's wore out them go in & finish him off.

Now, the powerful dog will have an advantage IF he can catch the quick dog. But he has to catch him first! :D
Here you go with that "has to catch'em" phrase again....lol. If the dogs are equal in all except weight than that would include stamina, agility, etc. Well, then again the bigger dog will have more power so yes that's excluded from being equal amongst the dogs in this hypothetical question also.


If the two dogs are doing what they're supposed to do, then what would make one hard to catch. The bigger dog is just gonna flip the smaller one and/or drive it into a corner.

[Scratchy]

Heck, I heard of a 45 lb pit bull whipping the tar out of a 130 lb Neo. I know, I know it wasn't a match, but I'm just giving it as an example - she just danced around him until she saw her opening. She got a good elbow hold where she could work her hold but he couldn't get to her & she worked her hold until he was just a panting puddle on the ground.

Despite the fact that he could probably bitten her in half had he wanted to, he couldn't catch her & she ended up the victor in spite the fact that he was much more powerful & vastly outweighed her.

That's definitely not something for your 45lber to have been proud of:p She was just playing around with him, making'em look stupid. These dogs do that.

[JRSPITS]

I had an accidental fight in my basement last year between two males, one weighing 50lbs and the other 100lbs(my first ADBA dog Whopper lines:( I didn't know any better ).

My agile little dog, Whitey wasn't quick enough and got caught. Saber was flinging him around like a ragdoll. If I hadn't stopped them Whitey wouldn't have made it. Both dogs were in equal shape but stamina was certainly an issue for the larger dog. No one should ever allow this to happen.

Saber can pushed his way out of the metal dog kennel. I now make sure there are at least two closed doors and chains separating these boys.

[ABK]

I don't know if she was proud of herself or not. I know he never messed w/ her against after that though! :D

But seriously, if everything is equal except for one dog is more powerful, while the other dog is more quick, then naturally the quick dog will be more able to keep themselves out of trouble.

Then we're right back to the powerful dog having to catch the quick one!

Friend, I have owned both, big & small & I have seen both catch, big & small & I have seen them compete against each other, big vs. small & I will tell you as one who has seen it, the quicker dog will prevail so long as he can keep himself out of trouble. Now if he messes around & gets himself in trouble, there will be hell to pay. But since this is a question of quickness vs. power, the agility of the quick dog should keep him out of trouble.

You can deny it if you want to, I know you're a big dog fan & there is nothing wrong w/ that. My big dogs were good dogs too (at least IMO :p ) but when you are pitting quickness against power, most often quickness will win out.

[Lethalpits]

I don't believe everyone here has something against 60-70 lb. bulldogs. I myself am partial to catchweight dogs (Mayday lines, Seitz Big Jake, Gr. Ch. Yellow).
But I also have some smaller dogs and have seen a lot of smaller dogs work. Lemme tell ya it just seems like those smaller dogs have a lot more fire in them.
Bigger dogs have the same instinct but can do more damage and take it. Working different holds and hopping around like a 40 lber is an issue as is wind and stamina. Same thing with people.

Reminds me of Randy Catour vs. Silvia.

[ABK]

lmao! You remind me of an anology I like to use. I tell ppl those big dogs are like George Foreman & the little ones are like Muhammed Ali.

And lemme tell ya, them dang big ones can eat like George Foreman too! lol.

[Scratchy]

ABK: Let's just clear up what do you mean when you say the bigger dog has to catch the smaller? For the record I only like for my males to be in the larger range close to 60lbs, but I like my females around 40lbs and to some yes that is big, but to me, it is not, especially since they're conditioned and I try to keep them that way.



Lethal: When you speak of the bigger dogs having shorter wind and stamina, I think you have misunderstood me or maybe we just simply disagree.A well conditioned dog isn't gonna be shorter winded or have less stamina or at least it shouldn't depending on how it was conditioned.

[Scratchy]

ABK:lmao! You remind me of an anology I like to use. I tell ppl those big dogs are like George Foreman & the little ones are like Muhammed Ali.I was thinking more like Muhammad Ali in his prime Vs. Jones Jr. in his prime(now) because this is just for chatter.


And lemme tell ya, them dang big ones can eat like George Foreman too! lol.
Depends on whose feeding them and what they feed.

[ABK]

I meant just that - that the more powerful dog will have to catch the quicker dog first. Like we were talking about befdore, you can have a dog as powerful as an Allegeheny freight train, but it won't do them any good if all they're pushing is air.

If I understood your question correctly you are asking which would prevail - 2 dogs equal in all ways, except one is more powerful, while one is more quick? That is what you're asking correct? Again, if that is what you're asking, my money will be on the quicker dog for the reasons I've already stated.

As for bigger dogs having shorter wind, this is usually (but not always) the case. Conditioning can help, but genetics plays a role also & in some cases, no matter how well you condition, you just cannot turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

I once had a wonderful 65 lb female named Savannah who used to run for miles next to me on my bike, but when it was time to catch she'd be breathless in 20 minutes & her tounge would be as purple as a Chow's tounge b/c she was simply just not oxygenating.

My other big ones didn't really have a problem w/ wind. But they were not nearly as agile as small dogs.

Now if you've got some good ones that are big, that's wonderful. More power to you. But as a whole big dogs aren't getting it done. If they were, more serious doggers would be using them.

But they aren't.

As for who was feeding them, that was my boo-boo. We free fed our first 2 hi-pro dog food. That why they were 83 lbs & 65 lbs respectively, but were out of parents who weighed 50 lbs & 45 lbs respectively! The male, Cody, would eat 30 lbs of dog food in 3 days. :eek:

I didn't ever free feed any more after that!

[Scratchy]

Well..........my money would be on the bigger dog because a well conditioned, well trained and dog with equivalent experience just spells trouble for that poor little dog. I can hear the little thing yelping already.

[ABK]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. After all, difference is the spice of life! ;)

[Scratchy]

Difference is the spice of life! ;)
It just saddens me that I've read a few threads bashing the dogs on the larger end. I understand the reasons for downing those overdone mutts, but not the true APBTs who just so happen to have turned out a little bigger. 60lbs is my cut off and those dogs are still quick as hell from my own experience.

[ABK]

I know what you mean. I've been in your shoes before. It can be hard (real hard) but try not to let it get to you. You know what you've got & if ppl are that shallow as to judge a bulldog just based on it's exterior then they don't know much about bulldogs, do they?

[Saiyagin]

Agreed Saiyagin, but at similar weights, the more agile is likely to win, if he has good conditioning.
LOL What? Common now Rock you know there are more variables or attributes to winning then just a dog being agile even if he does have good conditioning.

[Saiyagin]

Bigger dogs can float like a butterfly too;) . Agility is all about training and conditioning.
Although there are some rare exceptions of Big dogs that are very athletic or agile they still dont compare to the smaller dogs. I have a 62lbs performance weight or 76lbs OTC and he is very athletic and agile but still cannot be compared to alot of the smaller dogs Ive seen.

Now agility, agile,and athletic or what ever you want to call it lol some dogs are usually born and built for that agility/coordination trait and some are not. Proper conditioning and training can help increase a dogs agility but only to a certain degree.

[NOLEFAN]

Well..........my money would be on the bigger dog because a well conditioned, well trained and dog with equivalent experience just spells trouble for that poor little dog. I can hear the little thing yelping already.


I find it ironic that you would quote the very man that has proven what a sleek fast fighting machine can do, and yet you prefer the heavyweights. Check out a physics book and read the chapter on resistance and range of motion. Smaller doesn't always mean weaker.

[14rock]

LOL What? Common now Rock you know there are more variables or attributes to winning then just a dog being agile even if he does have good conditioning.Your right, but we are supposed to be discussing "all else being equal". I've seen dogs without a defensive bone in their body chase a hold 1/2 the show, while the other dances and keeps out of trouble with a head-hold. Very few, have the mouth to make chasing that one hold worthwhile once they finally get there. Some do, some can inflict more damage with one hold, then they sustained while chasing and being chewed on for 30 minutes. I do not like dogs that are either too offensive, or too defensive. A smart defensive dog, who knows when to pour it on, is a whole diffrent ball game then one who is content to ride the ear for hours. Of course, I've seen the side-effects of hard-mouthed monsters who can chase for 20 minutes until catching one solid hold, and make it count all the way to a pick-up. In our hypothetical discussion hear, I thought we were talking about two dogs with all else being equal besides styles? There are many diffrent variables, of course, which is why this is strictly hypothetical (besides it being illegal to find out!). Things are never cut and dry, but on the average, one who can stay out of trouble while inflicting it to a similarly talented (mouth, wind, durability) dog would win in the days when matching was legal.

[realonebulldog]

I am very well aware of the standard in APBTs and I'm not here say my dogs are better than anybody elses in way, shape or form because that's just based off of personal opinion. How in the hell can we sit here and say that smaller APBTs' are more agile, quicker, long winded and energetic than the ones on the larger end of the scale. It scrapes my skin when I hear a dog can't be as athletic as Joe Blows dog because Joe Blows dog is smaller in weight. I have a male in the 60lb range and he works every other day and is lean as an APBT can get. He's got the stamina and drive to run 50 suicides on a football field. I'll tell you one advantage I like about him. His back end is smaller and his front is large and he knows how to powerdrive with his back legs to get full force of his frontend.

Remember that this is my opinion and what I say hasn't been proven and if it ever was it would be a match to go down into history. Like I've stated this is all from my personal point of view. Take two dogs with the same rank but different weight classes and power will out measure quickness. That sounds Logically but it is not right. Dont ask me how they do it but some little Bulldogs have it all...and more! Ok some good big dogs out there, today and in History but if you look straight for real Bulldogs and if you talk about % then you have to search for the true little guys. Yes size and power plays a roll but ability, speed, safe hold and abowe all deep gameness are much more important. You say two dogs with the same rank, that is really a theoretical statement. Even if two dogs look alike you will find out they are not. The very true Qualities you will find most times in small Bulldogs. The reason for that is that the origin was small....go back in History and this dogs tend to be smaller and smaller....and then you can fell the Truth.....

[Fedor23]

I am very well aware of the standard in APBTs and I'm not here say my dogs are better than anybody elses in way, shape or form because that's just based off of personal opinion. How in the hell can we sit here and say that smaller APBTs' are more agile, quicker, long winded and energetic than the ones on the larger end of the scale. It scrapes my skin when I hear a dog can't be as athletic as Joe Blows dog because Joe Blows dog is smaller in weight. I have a male in the 60lb range and he works every other day and is lean as an APBT can get. He's got the stamina and drive to run 50 suicides on a football field. I'll tell you one advantage I like about him. His back end is smaller and his front is large and he knows how to powerdrive with his back legs to get full force of his frontend.

Remember that this is my opinion and what I say hasn't been proven and if it ever was it would be a match to go down into history. Like I've stated this is all from my personal point of view. Take two dogs with the same rank but different weight classes and power will out measure quickness. It's not true that smaller APBT's are more agile and quicker if their small, take Mayday for example he was pretty big. I think it all depends on the dogs bone structure, size of head, and the way the dog thinks, like in martial arts, you don't have to be small to be quick, your mind(dogs mind) is the power.

[14rock]

Even if two dogs look alike you will find out they are not. Right. If there was any one special formula, there would be no discussion-that is all that would exist after so many years of open matching! Any dog could win, on any night, which is why even non-doggers were willing to stake a wager at pre-76 dog shows.

[ABK]

It's not true that smaller APBT's are more agile and quicker if their small, take Mayday for example he was pretty big. I think it all depends on the dogs bone structure, size of head, and the way the dog thinks, like in martial arts, you don't have to be small to be quick, your mind(dogs mind) is the power.OK I'm back ...

I have to disagree w/ this statement. My 83 lb'er had all the "mind power" in the world, but he was still a clumsy oaf. If you're not made to move, you're just not made to move & no matter how much "mind power" you have you can't over come that.

And yes, there were dogs like Mayday. But as one poster said previously if you will look at the %s, you will find that dogs like Mayday are far & few in between. .