Cgc & Tt

[ABK]

OK, while posting on another thread the subject of CGC/TT came to mind. I have been thinking about getting CGC &/or TTs on my bullies. However a CGC/TT is often sneered at by the pit bull community as a do-nothing effort & a sign the dog is a cur. However, on the flip side, it looks great to JQP.

Another worry of mine is that to pass a CGC/TT the dog has to be calm around other dogs. I want my dogs to remain drivey around other dogs b/c firstly, I do not want to squash their natural instinct & secondly, not having a "proper bulldog attitude" can hurt them in shows.

I teach my dogs the "look at me" command so they know if I tell them to "look at me" they'd better look at me & act right, but if I don't say anything they are free to do as they wish. However, I don't think any types of commands are allowed in the CGC/TT tests. (I could be wrong on that though.)

What do y'all think? CGC/TT - are the worth the effort? Would it harm the dog's show prospects?

Any input would be great. :)

[Pipbull]

I think the CGC is the only one where they test the reaction around other dogs. And at least an attempt at those is awesome, just shows that you are testing your dogs in all kinds of different ways and will help you understand their temperament better.

But I didn't know that they made your dog a "cur"...

[ABK]

Yea, there are some folks who think that if your dog has a CGC it must be a cur b/c it has to be passive to the presence of a strange dog to pass the test.

Silly I know, but many ppl think that way. :(

[BoiBoi]

um....so whats CGC/TT

[ABK]

Canine Good Citizen & Temprament Test.

[pennsooner]

Haven't seen the other commits here but commands ARE allowed in CGC. I don't think they are in TT. I worked around the dog aggression issue by working on sit/stays with distractions (other dogs) around.



As regards negative feedback. Well, you can't please everyone. Unless a dog is proven it might well be a cur, and if it is then there is your answer. My point is that people who "don't like" seeing a cgc on a dog probably don't have their dogs interacting with the public a whole lot. IF you do have your dog interacting with the public, the a CGC/TT/TDI is a great bonus and insurance policy. If people give you a hard time about owning a Pitbull, just show them the CGC. No, it is not an advanced obedence title. But it is nice to have if your dog is in public.

[BoiBoi]

oh ok, but i though both of those somehow or another involved the dog interacting or atleast ignoring other dogs. I think it would be good to be able to do that but u would have to have one of ur dogs trained to the T to obey u and forget about the other dogs. I guess i understand how some people would see the dog as a cur because of the involvement with other dogs

[Rocky H. Balboa]

Yikes, I think the answer depends on why you thought of going through this. If it is for the public's sake, well, they have short attention spans. lol

If YOU want to have more control over them, well IT does bti have to become certified.

Going by my personal experience, the stress a game-bred dog will go through just to please you (contain itself in the near presence of another same gender adult dog) is sort of selfish IMO. In fact, it is almost animal abuse to have them stress out this way...lol (had to throw that one in).

[ShelterDog]

Both of my dogs have a TT title, and both are ready to take their CGC test. For the Temperment test, there are no other dogs, so the whole cur thing is insignificant. You cannot give your dogs any commands during the TT. There is really no training required for this test either.

The CGC is a little different because the dog needs some obedience training. One part of the test you and your dog must walk past another person with a dog. You pass person to person, not dog to dog. The dog must also have a nice sit/stay. Here are all of the items that the dog must pass - http://www.akc.org/events/cgc/training_testing.cfm . I would recommend going though 1 or 2 obedience classes before attempting the test.

At the end of the day they're both just pieces of paper, but it does give you and your dog some credibility with other dog owners.

[Patch O' Pits]

I have three that have their CGCs and also therapy certs

Honestly, people who make negative comments about it probably do so because they don't train their dogs in that manner

Plenty of DA dogs have CGCs and TT
It is about control and training and reflects a stable dog. It also helps with the breed PR IMO

there is a member here Maryellen who gives the CGC test and I'm sure will chime in with what she thinks too.

I say go for it

Just work on distraction training if your dog is DA. There really is only one part where you have to walk by another dog in the CGC testing. Now if the dog has over the top DA that is not controlable that testing is not for them

[ABK]

Thanks guys! I appreciate all your input!

Rocky - I dunno. The public seems to have had quite a long attention span for the fodder of pit bulls as vicious animals. IMO it would help quite a lot when someone starts busting your chops about killer pit bulls to be able to say your animal has had it's temperament tested & examined by professionals & has been found to be stable.

As for the test itself, I wouldn't deem it cruel b/c it's short amount of time (a few minutes) & they are not right next to the dog (I think 10 ft away). While I'm sure it will may pique their insincts, it's not like they're being put in a down-stay right next to the dog for 30 minutes or anything.

[Big Game]

Personaly I think this kind of training could somewhat retard or interfear with the schooling of a prospect that is showing potental, however I think this is a great idea foir a dog that dosent enjoy school. I think it is great PR for the breed and shows the versatality of our breed as well.History has shown Alot of true bulldogs like Dibo for example are alouf around other dogs and have a dont start no trouble wont be no trouble attatude tharefore I wouldent say that just because a dog passed these test the dog is a cur. But I also dont think a dog with this alouf attitude would far vary well in a show ring. Show judges like to see a firey dog. Just another example of how dog agression dosent = gameness

[miakoda]

There is nothing cruel about the test. If you find having your dog sit by you & listen to your commands vs. trying to rip someone else's dog head off as cruel treatment, then I'm afraid you are a very confused person.

As it stands, I only have one "pit bull" that has her CGC & TT & that is Sukari, the deaf rescue. Sukari breezed through both tests despite the fact that she doesn't truly like other dogs. But she is one that is fine & well mannered unless provoked by another dog (meaning they started it ;) ). During the CGC, there is a point where you must pass by someone else walking a dog & it's true that you walk by person to person, not dog to dog. I was also asked to put Sukari in a sit to shake the hand of this other person then continue on our way. Sukari was more interested in looking in the other direction.

For the TT test, there weren't any other dogs you must interact with. And since I'm a wierdo & put a garbage bag over my head & chase my dogs around & they are used to it, Sukari didn't find the wierd loud lady with the umbrella anything unusual. She was actually more interested in playing with her.

The only reason I haven't tried the tests with any of the other APBTs is because of the DA. However, all but one are manageable when on a leash & out & about (like when on walks. I'm sorry, but I don't allow my dogs to lunge & try to grab other people's dogs when we're out walking regardless of the whole "I don't want to deprive them of their natural wants & desires" crap). But it's the fact that where they seem to do the CGC tests at here in Baton Rouge are overcrowded indoor places & that is a no go for many of my dogs.

And if anyone wants to call Sukari a cur, go ahead. But in doing so you are showing your true ignorance to what a cur really is as the CGC test does NOT test to see which dog is game & which is a cur.

[bahamutt99]

My dog has a CGC and TT, but remember I don't let her act up. :) In the CGC test, all you really have to do is walk by and shake hands with the other dog walker, then walk on. The dogs are on the outside of the handlers. If your dog will heel, then hopefully it wont be a problem.

As for the TT, they don't test reactions to other dogs.

ETA: The CGC is fairly easy, and they do let you give commands. The TT is the one where they want to see the natural reactions, not the commanded response.

[coolhandjean]

Yea, there are some folks who think that if your dog has a CGC it must be a cur b/c it has to be passive to the presence of a strange dog to pass the test.

Silly I know, but many ppl think that way. :(To heck with those people who believe that makes your dog a cur, you know if your dogs are or aren't, so don't listen to them.

[brat pack]

All of our pit bulls have their cgc (5). And my puppy will too when he gets old enough. It is great to be able to defend your dogs breed by stating those titles. And it just shows that your animal is well mannered and obeys you in any situation in public. Three of ours are also Therapy dogs. That is great education for the public. Not to mention it makes us feel good that we are able to share such a great dog with others who aren't so fortunate. You would not believe the stories we get in the nursing homes about these peoples childhood pets. The majority of them pit bulls, and how they are the best dogs ever. By the way, a lot of people don't even know they are pit bulls. They ask me and my Honey pot to come back and see them while the other dogs leave. That really makes us feel good. I have not done the Temperment test, but plan to put that one on my list. The only problem with that one for me is the only place I know of that offers it is a CKC club. I need to find out if I have to be registered with them to take the test there.
The cgc test was very easy. Loose leash on your dog, basic commands, manuvering in public areas. Stuff such as that. Our dogs passed easily.

[bahamutt99]

Brat Pack, have you asked your local humane society? That's who hosted the CGC test that Loki titled at. Might be a place to start.

ETA: Nevermind, I misread the message. TTs are hard to find, I agree. Just gotta keep an eye on the ATTS site, or maybe ask a local club if they'll host one.

[maryellen1]

ABK, screw what people say about your dog being a cur with a cgc or TT.. if you want your dog to show the breed in a positive light then go for the cgc and the tt. the cgc you give commands the tt you dont say or do anything but let the dog sniff, pull, etc.. as far as letting your dog be "gamey" around other dogs. the cgc is to show the dog can act appropriately in a crowd with dogs.. in otherwords, if you like your dog to act like an idiot when people walk their dogs by dont do the cgc. the cgc shows the dog can BEHAVE on leash when other dogs are present, not screaming/whining/growling to get at that other dog. the cgc is more about control- how well do you handle your dog in public basically. the TT (www.atts.org (http://www.atts.org)) is about the dogs temperment, and no other dogs are used. sure there will be a ton of dogs waiting to take the test, so make sure either your dog is put away or behaves in public with other dogs around. my pitbull mix (cur) has his cgc, tt, and therapy dog titles, and we do therapy visits to show the breed in a positive light.

[maryellen1]

brat pak, ANY dog can take the TT test, you dont have to be registered with any club to do it.. the money goes to the ATTS.org and they are the ones giving the test, the club just hosts the testers that day.

[Pitbull219]

ABK, whoever is telling you CGC/TT is a sign your dog is a cur......stop talking to them, lol. They obviously don't know the difference between DA and gameness.

[ABK]

Thanks for the advice guys!!!

219 - you'd be suprised at how many ppl think a CGC makes your dog a "cur." You'd think they'd know better, but a lot don't.