So I wanted some opinions about this.

[lovebeingme]

I am done with this place.

[QuarterBullSpitz]

If I have posted in the wrong area, I apologize in advance.

I wanted to explain the events of the day my world changed when it came to these dogs and see what everyone here thought of it.

Let me preface by saying that I know most of my actions were retarded. I was very naive about dogs in general let alone pit bulls. I would never conduct myself in this manner now that I know the proper way to stop what was happening. Also, I am looking for insite as to why my dogs acted the way they did during the altercation, not what mistakes I made (as stated, I already know).
This is from the thread entitled "Ruined."

How is my experience limited? If 10 years with the breed is not enough, what is? At what point am I allowed to express my feeling and explain my experiences? 20 years, 30? Do you make that decision?
Now which is it, a 2-3 year dog owner or a 10+ year owner?

Three dogs is a pack, if you let them run together unsupervised shit happens.

[lovebeingme]

As my dogs grew I started to really research them, I know, should not have been after the fact, but it is what it is.


The more I read the more I realized what kind of state the APBT was in. I was appalled and wanted to help.

I got involved with a rescue and got my first foster, Pepper..

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/71/166863666_b5b71acec3.jpg
Pepper was dream! Other than that innitial pee on the couch and jump on the coffee table, she was super submissive and very well behaved.

So, I thought, well this went so well, let's bring in another...

Enter, Jersey...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/37/112681261_85fdfba15e.jpg

How could I resist those bat ears! I drove about 4 hours to pick her up from a pound just cuz I thought I could help, nice job Jaime. Please don't mind the flip-flop, an 11 year old lives here. :)

So, everything was wonderful for about 2 weeks.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/66/166863667_555998f9e3.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/48/112681257_c99047c69d.jpg

Then, one fateful day, I arrived home from work alone and let everyone out of their cages. All five....at once....and I started the ritual of taking each out on leash. Just as I was letting Bastian back in I felt something was ammiss.

Like nothing, no warning, no growl, no bark, Jersey went after my Bella.

I grabbed a plastic bowl and thrust it in between their mouths...good try Jaime.:rolleyes:

Jersey has a tight hold on Bella's face, and the rest of the dogs are looking around like WTF?

I scream for Pepper and Boscoe to GO! I secure them in my bedroom with a locked door.

I run back in the back room where the dogs are and see that Jersey is still messing my dog up. Bella is staring into my eyes, obviously not fighting back, it felt horrible.

Bastian is standing behind me just observing.

I go to the kitchen and fill up a large pan with water. I run in and dump the water on them....nothing.

I run back to the kitchen and grab the pledge, shoot Jersey with it...nothing.

With the fear of being bit I start to kick at them, thinking that somehow if I kick just right I can break the hold....nope.

In sheer retardation I think that maybe if I talk calmly to them they will snap out of it. RIGHT! How dumb can I be?!

I scream some more, throw some things and finally reach a point of utter desperation.

So far, I have been keeping Bastian behind me, but at that point was done trying to be reasonable....I let him in the room and went and got the phone....I called 911...

Bastian was very calculating in his responses to what was going on. He did not bite Bella (in my presence) he would wait for the opportunity to get a bite on Jersey and deliver. He did this over and over, never biting Bella.

At this point, with exhaustion (40 minutes of the fight) I went outside to wait for the police.
They were HORRIBLE! Not having many encounters with police before this I was a bit taken a back. Now I know.

Anyway, they told me the only thing they could do was come in and shoot the dogs. Of course I objected, so they said I needed to go in and see what was going on.

Holy crap! I was so scared! I walked back in the front door and oh so softly said "come here doggies...". To my surprise all 3 ran out of the back room together wagging their tails, bloody, puncture ridden, wet, and limping. :(

They were done.

The police made me show each one of the dogs, and I confirmed who I would be taking to the emergency vet.

Now, after the LONGEST post you have ever read! I have a question.

It was very obvious that my Bella did not want to fight. It was also very evident that Bastian was not in it to kill. Jersey may have been, but it seems that my 2 dogs were only trying to put her in her place. It seems once she submitted, they let her be, they did not continue until she was no longer.

I mean, is that possible, that the fight was only a try for dominance, and once Jersey realized she was dominated she submitted? Does this happen often? I've just always been curious what others opinions are on the whole thing. it's very interesting to me.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/72/159097075_f3b0479b6c.jpg

[WWII]

Well, they are pit bulls. That's why they started a fight. You really can't expect to have 5 bulldogs around each other being happy all the time. And you're screaming and frustation hightened the situation. If you're gonna be a rescue, especially for bulldogs, you should've studied how to break up a fight, and had a breaking stick on hand. Fact is, this is your fault. The dogs had nothing to do with it. They are pit bulls and do what pit bulls do.

[lovebeingme]

This is from the thread entitled "Ruined."


Now which is it, a 2-3 year dog owner or a 10+ year owner?

Three dogs is a pack, if you let them run together unsupervised shit happens.
Good job waiting until the rest of the story was posted.

Bastian is 4, my oldest. The oldest I have OWNED. Sheesh, I have been around, involved with APBT's for over 10 years. Friends and family owned, I walked, spent time with, that sort of thing. You are quite quick to judgement.

No "shit" has happened between my 3, AND, my three are never left unattended so, good job at jumping the gun... slow down there buddy.

The story is about fosters

Jaime

[ChiaPit]

I'm guessing since she was new to an established pack, she was probably trying to dominate and place herself ahead of the other female, but then again maybe she just wanted to create some excitement :rolleyes:

[lovebeingme]

Well, they are pit bulls. That's why they started a fight. You really can't expect to have 5 bulldogs around each other being happy all the time. And you're screaming and frustation hightened the situation. If you're gonna be a rescue, especially for bulldogs, you should've studied how to break up a fight, and had a breaking stick on hand. Fact is, this is your fault. The dogs had nothing to do with it. They are pit bulls and do what pit bulls do.
Okay, I stated in the beginning of my post that I was naive when this all happened, and that I know better now, so you saying you should have known better is redundant, I already stated that. Thanks for nothing.

I already admitted what I did was not the right thing, in saying that I meant that innitial fight was my fault, once again, you're being redundant, thanks for nothing.

The post was meant to get people's opinions about why my dogs kind of bonded together and fought the foster together. Why they only bit her until she submitted and then let go. It is an interesting topic to me, I wanted some opinions on that, not repeating what I had already expressed.

Jaime

[WWII]

Okay, I stated in the beginning of my post that I was naive when this all happened, and that I know better now, so you saying you should have known better is redundant, I already stated that. Thanks for nothing.

I already admitted what I did was not the right thing, in saying that I meant that innitial fight was my fault, once again, you're being redundant, thanks for nothing.

The post was meant to get people's opinions about why my dogs kind of bonded together and fought the foster together. Why they only bit her until she submitted and then let go. It is an interesting topic to me, I wanted some opinions on that, not repeating what I had already expressed.

Jaime
I just told you WHY. Listen. They are pit bulls. Pit bulls are fighting dogs. Not much else to say. That is why they fought.

[lovebeingme]

I'm guessing since she was new to an established pack, she was probably trying to dominate and place herself ahead of the other female, but then again maybe she just wanted to create some excitement :rolleyes:
Thanks for the sarcastic eye roll...nice.

AGAIN, I was not asking about the behavior of Jersey, I was looking for insight as to why my own dogs kind of bonded together and put Jersey in her place. I thought it was interesting the behavior they displayed. I was wondering if anyone else has seen this.

Jaime

[lovebeingme]

I just told you WHY. Listen. They are pit bulls. Pit bulls are fighting dogs. Not much else to say. That is why they fought.
MY GOD!

Then why did my two dogs not go after eachother?!?!??!?!

[WWII]

How do you know it didn't? You just said it waited until you left. What can you see when you are gone?

[ChiaPit]

Thanks for the sarcastic eye roll...nice.

AGAIN, I was not asking about the behavior of Jersey, I was looking for insight as to why my own dogs kind of bonded together and put Jersey in her place. I thought it was interesting the behavior they displayed. I was wondering if anyone else has seen this.

Jaime

The sarcastic eye roll was not intended to be directed at you in a rude way...more so to the often unexplainable behavior of dogs at which only the most educated of guesses are still guesses

[lovebeingme]

This whole thing is very dissapointing to me.

I tried to put it out there, to be thruthful about where my opinions came from.

I expressed it the best I could, and admitted I was not doing it right in the beginning, yet I still get negative comments.

Not just negative even, I answer to certain points in another's post, and the only thing someone has to say is that it was my fault, I KNOW IT WAS MY FAULT! I was not asking for forgiveness, I was asking about the behavior of the dogs. The answer is not just "they are pit bulls" as my dogs showed restaint. They did not kill or even seriously mame the other dog, they put her in ther place and she submitted, why is it wrong for me to inquire about this?

[chloesredboy]

I have had couple fairly bad fights and please dont get me wrong im not trying to bash you but if you are scared of getting bit during fights you should probalbly not have more than one dog because allthough my dogs have never bitten me i know sometimes it does happen.Also this kind of bs can happen with any dogs not just apbt's.Yelling and throwing things at the dogs will only make it worse.The best thing is to make sure all dogs are always wearing collars so you have something to grab and ALWAYS have a break stick handy when dealing with multiple dogs regardless of the breeds.(The worse dog fights i have ever seen were between my brothers chows).I dont really know how to put this but i hope youll understand what im saying when you have several dogs living like that you really have to watch how you do small things.It is interesting that you said it started when you let them all out at once ,with dogs ,something as minor as who goes through the door first or who you take out first is a big deal.My dogs get along most of the time but alot of fights have taken place during the time i first get home.My dominant bitch,chloe is always the first one to get attention and always the first one to go out the door.try taking them out one at time and i always yell at the other dogs waiting bythe door to move before i let the one outside in .Just try to make sure they go in and out one at a time.

[lovebeingme]

I have had couple fairly bad fights and please dont get me wrong im not trying to bash you but if you are scared of getting bit during fights you should probalbly not have more than one dog because allthough my dogs have never bitten me i know sometimes it does happen.Also this kind of bs can happen with any dogs not just apbt's.Yelling and throwing things at the dogs will only make it worse.The best thing is to make sure all dogs are always wearing collars so you have something to grab and ALWAYS have a break stick handy when dealing with multiple dogs regardless of the breeds.(The worse dog fights i have ever seen were between my brothers chows).I dont really know how to put this but i hope youll understand what im saying when you have several dogs living like that you really have to watch how you do small things.It is interesting that you said it started when you let them all out at once ,with dogs ,something as minor as who goes through the door first or who you take out first is a big deal.My dogs get along most of the time but alot of fights have taken place during the time i first get home.My dominant bitch,chloe is always the first one to get attention and always the first one to go out the door.try taking them out one at time and i always yell at the other dogs waiting bythe door to move before i let the one outside in .Just try to make sure they go in and out one at a time.
AGAIN! I was not asking for advice on how I handled the situation, I know now that I did it horribly wrong. I was asking for opinions on why my dogs reacted the way they did. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. I mean no offense but how more clear can I make it?

I would never handle things in the manner I did back then, I was dumb.

[lovebeingme]

How do you know it didn't? You just said it waited until you left. What can you see when you are gone?
There was not one single mark on Bastian, and Bella only had marks on her face where Jersey had her.

In fact, to me that mean that even Jersey did not bite Bastian.

[WWII]

This whole thing is very dissapointing to me.

I tried to put it out there, to be thruthful about where my opinions came from.

I expressed it the best I could, and admitted I was not doing it right in the beginning, yet I still get negative comments.

Not just negative even, I answer to certain points in another's post, and the only thing someone has to say is that it was my fault, I KNOW IT WAS MY FAULT! I was not asking for forgiveness, I was asking about the behavior of the dogs. The answer is not just "they are pit bulls" as my dogs showed restaint. They did not kill or even seriously mame the other dog, they put her in ther place and she submitted, why is it wrong for me to inquire about this?
Then what are you asking?
"Why did my dogs do this?"

It's because this breed of dog has been bred for 100s of years to fight. That's why. It doesn't get any clearer than that. I can only say so much as to why pit bulls were fighting. Bottom line, you're looking for an answer, but there really isn't one except that YOU had 5 pit bulls living together in close proximity, letting them run around together, and were naive about the situation.

[lovebeingme]

The sarcastic eye roll was not intended to be directed at you in a rude way...more so to the often unexplainable behavior of dogs at which only the most educated of guesses are still guesses
Well I apologize if I took it the wrong way, but everyone is already missing the point. I was wondering what they thoughts were on why my dogs kind of bonded together and dominted the foster. I gave the history to kind of explain where I was coming from. I guess that was the wrong idea.

I just thought it was an intersting point, that maybe dogs raised together might feel a bond that made them fight together and not against, even a pit bull.

Guess I was wrong for thinking things could be looked at objectively.

[lovebeingme]

Then what are you asking?
"Why did my dogs do this?"

It's because this breed of dog has been bred for 100s of years to fight. That's why. It doesn't get any clearer than that. I can only say so much as to why pit bulls were fighting. Bottom line, you're looking for an answer, but there really isn't one except that YOU had 5 pit bulls living together in close proximity, letting them run around together, and were naive about the situation.
WHY DID MY DOGS BOND TOGETHER AND FIGHT OFF THE FOSTER?

That was the question...how much clearer can I make it?

[WWII]

Well I apologize if I took it the wrong way, but everyone is already missing the point. I was wondering what they thoughts were on why my dogs kind of bonded together and dominted the foster. I gave the history to kind of explain where I was coming from. I guess that was the wrong idea.

I just thought it was an intersting point, that maybe dogs raised together might feel a bond that made them fight together and not against, even a pit bull.

Guess I was wrong for thinking things could be looked at objectively.
Well, when a neighbors dog came into my yard, my pit bulls were off the chain and were fine with each other. As soon as they saw the dog, both of them went after the neighbors dog. Fast forward a couple months and they were going after one another. Just happens.

[chloesredboy]

This whole thing is very dissapointing to me.

I tried to put it out there, to be thruthful about where my opinions came from.

I expressed it the best I could, and admitted I was not doing it right in the beginning, yet I still get negative comments.

Not just negative even, I answer to certain points in another's post, and the only thing someone has to say is that it was my fault, I KNOW IT WAS MY FAULT! I was not asking for forgiveness, I was asking about the behavior of the dogs. The answer is not just "they are pit bulls" as my dogs showed restaint. They did not kill or even seriously mame the other dog, they put her in ther place and she submitted, why is it wrong for me to inquire about this?well first of all dont ask stupid questions if you dont want stupid answers,You said you wanted peoples opinions so we are giving them.As far as the question you are asking why did the dogs show restraint and not kill each other?you answered your own question when you said the dogs were trying to put the other dog in its place and she submited.If the fight was really about dominance then the other two had no reason to kill the dog after it submitted!

[chloesredboy]

Also you ask why your dogs bonded against the foster dog?Duh,they are a pack they allready have bonded with each other.Dogs cooperate with each other in packs to benefit from each other of course if they feel one pack member or their territory is at risk they are going to come together to nuetralize the threat for the benefit of the whole pack.

[Bailey]

WHY DID MY DOGS BOND TOGETHER AND FIGHT OFF THE FOSTER?

That was the question...how much clearer can I make it?
When a group of dogs are placed to live together, as a means of survival they form what is called packs and in each pack will be a dominant dog unless the pack is quite large there will be two dominant dogs, a male and a female.

When a outside dog is brought in to join the already formed pack then that dog isn't easily accepted. It's survival techniques must be tested and then the dog is either accepted or rejected.

IMO, if you don't know about dogs forming packs and if you don't expect pitbulls to fight, then you should get a hamster.

[lovebeingme]

Well, when a neighbors dog came into my yard, my pit bulls were off the chain and were fine with each other. As soon as they saw the dog, both of them went after the neighbors dog. Fast forward a couple months and they were going after one another. Just happens.
Atleast this somewhat addressed the original post. Somewhat..

I will try to say this clearly and to the point.

There was a fight in my house quite a while ago.

I was wondering what other's thoughts were on why my dogs did not attack eachother, but bonded together to bring down the foster.

I was wondering why the foster did not continue to attack.

I was wondering if even pitbulls can feel a pack mentality and join to beating down an opponent.

I was wondering why Bastian cam to Bella's aid and saved her from the foster.

I had alot of questions, but so far in this thread, have felt that everyone just wants to insult. Giving opinions is one thing, but when the original post expresses that the actions of that day are admitantly wrong, there is no need to pound that point in, it's already admitted.

[lovebeingme]

well first of all dont ask stupid questions if you dont want stupid answers,You said you wanted peoples opinions so we are giving them.As far as the question you are asking why did the dogs show restraint and not kill each other?you answered your own question when you said the dogs were trying to put the other dog in its place and she submited.If the fight was really about dominance then the other two had no reason to kill the dog after it submitted!
Thanks so much for calling my questions stupid...you're a real stand up guy/gal.

[Bailey]

Atleast this somewhat addressed the original post. Somewhat..

I will try to say this clearly and to the point.

There was a fight in my house quite a while ago.

I was wondering what other's thoughts were on why my dogs did not attack eachother, but bonded together to bring down the foster.

I was wondering why the foster did not continue to attack.

I was wondering if even pitbulls can feel a pack mentality and join to beating down an opponent.

I was wondering why Bastian cam to Bella's aid and saved her from the foster.

I had alot of questions, but so far in this thread, have felt that everyone just wants to insult. Giving opinions is one thing, but when the original post expresses that the actions of that day are admitantly wrong, there is no need to pound that point in, it's already admitted.Why are you asking questions that Childrens books like "Clifford" answered. I think I even learned this from an episode of "Garfield" when Odie made doggy friends.

[lovebeingme]

Also you ask why your dogs bonded against the foster dog?Duh,they are a pack they allready have bonded with each other.Dogs cooperate with each other in packs to benefit from each other of course if they feel one pack member or their territory is at risk they are going to come together to nuetralize the threat for the benefit of the whole pack.
Again with the Duh, what the hell is wrong with you?

You have been attacking me this whole thread.

What is your problem? I brought a story, and asked for some insight, you have done nothing but insult, how is that productive?

[lovebeingme]

Why are you asking questions that Childrebs books like "Clifford". I think I even learned this from an episode of "Garfield" when Odie made doggy friends.
Seriously, why are you being such a dick?

[bahamutt99]

Dogs fight sometimes for reasons that are known only to them. I had a bitch jump on her mother for no apparent reason while playing, and it resulted in a nasty fight. You may never know why your resident dogs joined forces to beat up your foster, or why Jersey decided to pick that fight. Or why Bella didn't fight back. That's just the luck of the draw, and in your case, I'd say you were very lucky that the other dogs didn't jump in on that.

[chloesredboy]

im not attacking you ,you just asked a question that anyone with a dog should allready know the answer to it is common sense,then when everyone gave their opinions you acted like we are a bunch of illiterate idiots who didnt understand what you are writing

[chloesredboy]

Why are you asking questions that Childrebs books like "Clifford". I think I even learned this from an episode of "Garfield" when Odie made doggy friends.LOL thats what im trying to say !

[chloesredboy]

Atleast this somewhat addressed the original post. Somewhat..

I will try to say this clearly and to the point.

There was a fight in my house quite a while ago.

I was wondering what other's thoughts were on why my dogs did not attack eachother, but bonded together to bring down the foster.

I was wondering why the foster did not continue to attack.

I was wondering if even pitbulls can feel a pack mentality and join to beating down an opponent.

I was wondering why Bastian cam to Bella's aid and saved her from the foster.

I had alot of questions, but so far in this thread, have felt that everyone just wants to insult. Giving opinions is one thing, but when the original post expresses that the actions of that day are admitantly wrong, there is no need to pound that point in, it's already admitted.And what do you mean "even pit-bulls can form a pack mentality"? last time i checked pit-bulls were dogs,any dog from a pit-bull to a min poodle have pack mentality especially with five of them in the house.

[BoogiemanBlood]

Thanks so much for calling my questions stupid...you're a real stand up guy/gal.well what's really stupid is once again you have 10 years experience with these dogs but don't know answers to some of the most basic bulldog questions to ever be asked. it's almost impossible to try to help you as you have some crybaby answer for anybody that tries to post a good answer or opinion of what you should do.

edit: i smell as much b.s. around you as r.c.

[Bailey]

And what do you mean "even pit-bulls can form a pack mentality"? last time i checked pit-bulls were dogs,any dog from a pit-bull to a min poodle have pack mentality especially with five of them in the house.
She's just not getting that. How can we break it down like a fraction.

"Ride or Die fool"

"For better or for Worse"

"Til death do us part"

"Bros before hoes"

[lovebeingme]

im not attacking you ,you just asked a question that anyone with a dog should allready know the answer to it is common sense,then when everyone gave their opinions you acted like we are a bunch of illiterate idiots who didnt understand what you are writing
NO.

It is not my fault that you chose to ignore the beginning of me post that the original story was that of a long time ago and that I have since learned my lesson.

You were attacking me by making brute statements without thinking about what the original post said. Don't you think it took some courage to post the whole story? Yet, you decided to just pick at the negative you saw without any regard for what the original question was. Shame on you.

I made myself very clear about the mistakes I had made in the PAST, you insisted on harping on something already admitted.

[WWII]

NO.

It is not my fault that you chose to ignore the beginning of me post that the original story was that of a long time ago and that I have since learned my lesson.

You were attacking me by making brute statements without thinking about what the original post said. Don't you think it took some courage to post the whole story? Yet, you decided to just pick at the negative you saw without any regard for what the original question was. Shame on you.

I made myself very clear about the mistakes I had made in the PAST, you insisted on harping on something already admitted.
You wouldn't be crying about our replys if you were responsible though...

[BoogiemanBlood]

NO.

It is not my fault that you chose to ignore the beginning of me post that the original story was that of a long time ago and that I have since learned my lesson.

You were attacking me by making brute statements without thinking about what the original post said. Don't you think it took some courage to post the whole story? Yet, you decided to just pick at the negative you saw without any regard for what the original question was. Shame on you.

I made myself very clear about the mistakes I had made in the PAST, you insisted on harping on something already admitted.take up parakeet rescue you may have better luck. that is if you're smart enough to change the paper in the bottom of the cages.

[lovebeingme]

When a group of dogs are placed to live together, as a means of survival they form what is called packs and in each pack will be a dominant dog unless the pack is quite large there will be two dominant dogs, a male and a female.

When a outside dog is brought in to join the already formed pack then that dog isn't easily accepted. It's survival techniques must be tested and then the dog is either accepted or rejected.

IMO, if you don't know about dogs forming packs and if you don't expect pitbulls to fight, then you should get a hamster.
I always heard since pit bulls were bred to be dominant dog aggressive dogs that they didn't adhere to the normal pack mentality. So sorry if I misunderstood. Again, I was curious about the way things went down. and again, I have gotten nothing but negativity, you guys have blatently expressed what you think about me and my views.

[WWII]

I always heard since pit bulls were bred to be dominant dog aggressive dogs that they didn't adhere to the normal pack mentality. So sorry if I misunderstood. Again, I was curious about the way things went down. and again, I have gotten nothing but negativity, you guys have blatently expressed what you think about me and my views.
The admins aren't holding your IP captive. Just sayin...

[chloesredboy]

the first reply i made was nothing negetive i thought you were asking why this happened so i gave my opinion along with a few suggestions on how to avoid the problem.with every reply you have gotten ,YOU are the one who started being negetive.If you dont want peoples opinions then DONT ASK!

[simms]

I always heard since pit bulls were bred to be dominant dog aggressive dogs that they didn't adhere to the normal pack mentality. So sorry if I misunderstood. Again, I was curious about the way things went down. and again, I have gotten nothing but negativity, you guys have blatently expressed what you think about me and my views.
IMO, No they do not have a pack mentality. However some will tolerate other animals. My house dog will tolerate other animals in the house.....provided they are submissive and in a crate...LOL

[lovebeingme]

im not attacking you ,you just asked a question that anyone with a dog should allready know the answer to it is common sense,then when everyone gave their opinions you acted like we are a bunch of illiterate idiots who didnt understand what you are writing
I absolutely did not act that you are a bunch of illiterates. I simply stated that in my original post I already expressed that I knew of the mistakes i made, yet ove and over people on this board pointed out things that I had already admitted to, that's redundant.

I'm sorry if to some of you my questions about my dogs bonding together was simple dog knowledge that any idiot would know, but I have devoted the last several years to the pit bull, and have read all sorts of things about them not being pack animals since they were bred to fight eachother.

To call me stupid serves no purpose.

Why not try and be respectable, as I have been to you guys.

I am very dissapointed how this thread has turned out. If your intention is to drive people away, then good job. I was really just trying to get opinions on how the dogs acted, instead I got a full on beat down. Thanks so much.

[lovebeingme]

well what's really stupid is once again you have 10 years experience with these dogs but don't know answers to some of the most basic bulldog questions to ever be asked. it's almost impossible to try to help you as you have some crybaby answer for anybody that tries to post a good answer or opinion of what you should do.

edit: i smell as much b.s. around you as r.c.
Insults, again....

[chloesredboy]

You wouldn't be crying about our replys if you were responsible though...Hold up , I think im starting to get it.It sounds like an inexperienced person with too much on their plate.I think she wants a speciffic reason and solution to why this happend so she can continue to keep five dogs in the house without any fighting.Well that is impossible and the sooner you admitt that and get your head out of your ........... .The sooner you can learn from what we are trying to tell you.

[lovebeingme]

She's just not getting that. How can we break it down like a fraction.

"Ride or Die fool"

"For better or for Worse"

"Til death do us part"

"Bros before hoes"
Ride or die?!?!

lmao, please...

[BoogiemanBlood]

Insults, again....i like to call it the truth.

[WWII]

I'm sorry if to some of you my questions about my dogs bonding together was simple dog knowledge that any idiot would know, but I have devoted the last several years to the pit bull, and have read all sorts of things about them not being pack animals since they were bred to fight eachother.


Then why did you have them all loose together? We keep saying that you're at fault b/c you're the reason the dogs were even put into this situation. If you already know it's your fault, why worry about this? The dogs fought. You were at fault. It's over with now. Everything has been answered.

[lovebeingme]

Hold up , I think im starting to get it.It sounds like an inexperienced person with too much on their plate.I think she wants a speciffic reason and solution to why this happend so she can continue to keep five dogs in the house without any fighting.Well that is impossible and the sooner you admitt that and get your head out of your ........... .The sooner you can learn from what we are trying to tell you.
I do not have too much on my plate!
I have 6 dogs at the moment and all is fine, you are not the all knowing...

I have had ONE fight....ONE do any of you get that?!?! ONE...more than a year ago.

Keep throwing the insults out there...it does nothing but discredit what you are saying. You all have made your stance clear, I am not wanted, nor my opinions. You could have done it in a much more polite manner, instead you had to insult and breate me. Thanks alot.

[lovebeingme]

i like to call it the truth.
Whether it's the truth or not, it's just rude.

[BoogiemanBlood]

Whether it's the truth or not, it's just rude.why cuz i pointed out that you say you have 10 years experience with the dogs and you don't know the most basic knowledge? see like i said...........crybaby! like i said take up parakeet rescue i think it would be more your speed.

[WWII]

Whether it's the truth or not, it's just rude.
OK.


The dogs teamed up because they both really liked each other. The foster wanted to impress Bastian with her cunning moves. It took the other dog by surprise, and not having to prove anything she did not fight back. Well, not knowing how to express himself towards the foster, he nipped at her like grade-school children chase and tackle the ones they like in school. But was too embarassed to do in in direct sight of you.....

[lovebeingme]

I have to get offline for the night.


I just needed to say that some of you guys have really been insensitive to my situation.
I tried my best to explain it, but someone found something wrong with that.

I tried to defend that, and apparantly that was wrong too.

It seems nothing I say can please anyone.

I am a good person, who loves her dogs. It seems most on here can't even look at things objectively and insist on degrading people. I have tried, over and over, and noone here will give me a chance (atleast in this thread).

I guess it's pointless, go ahead and flame away, I know in my heart of hearts what's right.

Jaime

[chloesredboy]

You are really starting to irritate me i never said that i was "all knowing" .Just stop whinning about people being mean and feeling sorry for yourself.Everything you are saying is condradicting,you just keep back peddeling everything you say.Six dogs one fight? B.S.And if you are so capable you would allready know the answers to your questions and wouldnt let that happen in the first place.

[lovebeingme]

why cuz i pointed out that you say you have 10 years experience with the dogs and you don't know the most basic knowledge? see like i said...........crybaby! like i said take up parakeet rescue i think it would be more your speed.
Again with the insults. Are there no rules around here?!

I have 10 years experience with the breed that I HAVE ENCOUNTERED.

Family, friends, etc. I acquired my first 4 years ago, apparently you did not read this the last time I posted it IN THIS THREAD.

How many times must I reiiterate the same statements, I mean come on! I am trying to hang in there (as some have pm'd me) but this thread is just ridiculous! I asked for advice on a CERTAIN subject and was insulted over and over again. How much is one expected to endure? Do you guys want me to leave? Am I not welcome? It sure feels that way.

[lovebeingme]

You are really starting to irritate me i never said that i was "all knowing" .Just stop whinning about people being mean and feeling sorry for yourself.Everything you are saying is condradicting,you just keep back peddeling everything you say.Six dogs one fight? B.S.And if you are so capable you would allready know the answers to your questions and wouldnt let that happen in the first place.
HOW AM I BACKPEDDLING? Give me a clear example.

How is everything I am saying contradicting? Give me a clear example.

AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE FIGHT I POSTED ABOUT WAS A YEAR AGO! What is your problem? I thought it was interesting how my dogs reacted and I was looking for input, not ouright insults.

[chloesredboy]

Stop playing the poor little victim role,trust me you are not getting insulted ive seen these people be insulting and you are not getting anything near that and you are insulting people too.

[WWII]

HOW AM I BACKPEDDLING? Give me a clear example.

How is everything I am saying contradicting? Give me a clear example.

AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE FIGHT I POSTED ABOUT WAS A YEAR AGO! What is your problem? I thought it was interesting how my dogs reacted and I was looking for input, not ouright insults.
BECAUSE WE HAVE ANSWERED YOU!!! No one was insulting you. We were telling you WHY A FIGHT TOOK PLACE. If you don't like the replys on a public forum then don't let the door hit ya' where the good Lord split ya.

[lovebeingme]

Stop playing the poor little victim role,trust me you are not getting insulted ive seen these people be insulting and you are not getting anything near that and you are insulting people too.
You are still avoiding the original point of this thread, and you are still being negative. How does that benefit anyone?

My only negative comments have been in retaliation of the outright rudesness of others.

[chloesredboy]

the clear example? allready brought up is it ten or two years ? being around friends and families dogs is entirely different than owning you own.I really dont see why you are getting so bent out of shape you asked a question you got answers.You cant come on a public board and expect everyone on there to agree with you.You said you wanted OPINIONS not faccts ,you got opinions and now you are mad because they didnt tell you what you wanted to hear.Get over it and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

[WWII]

You are still avoiding the original point of this thread, and you are still being negative. How does that benefit anyone?

My only negative comments have been in retaliation of the outright rudesness of others.
Please repeat the original point of the thread.
Was it not "Why did my two dogs attack the other?"

Read the responses. It has been answered numerous times. All with you spouting off the same response such as "You are still avoiding the original point of this thread."

[lovebeingme]

BECAUSE WE HAVE ANSWERED YOU!!! No one was insulting you. We were telling you WHY A FIGHT TOOK PLACE. If you don't like the replys on a public forum then don't let the door hit ya' where the good Lord split ya.
Noone was insulting me? Are you effing kidding me? Have you not read the pages in this thread?

I know WHY A FIGHT TOOK PLACE. That was not the question, thanks.

It was simply a questioning as to why the dogs acted as they did. I no longer want to know the opinions on this board since it seems that noone is able to answer a simple question with an opinion without berating the poster. I seriously cannot believe I survived the "ruined" post only to be turned off by this one. Noone is playing a victim or feeling sorry for herself, I will contiue to do what I do with these dogs whether or not someone likes it.

Yeah, fuck me, good job people on this thread, you did a real good service to the dogs, bravo to you.

[chloesredboy]

I am done.Are you f-ing retarded or just really stupid?please do the world a favor,get off the computer and go read a book or get steralized!

[lovebeingme]

OK.


The dogs teamed up because they both really liked each other. The foster wanted to impress Bastian with her cunning moves. It took the other dog by surprise, and not having to prove anything she did not fight back. Well, not knowing how to express himself towards the foster, he nipped at her like grade-school children chase and tackle the ones they like in school. But was too embarassed to do in in direct sight of you.....
Once again you are just being a sarcastic prick.

[lovebeingme]

I am done.Are you f-ing retarded or just really stupid?please do the world a favor,get off the computer and go read a book or get steralized!
I am glad you are done..go away.. thanks

Again with the insults, do you have nothing positive to say?

[simms]

Noone was insulting me? Are you effing kidding me? Have you not read the pages in this thread?

I know WHY A FIGHT TOOK PLACE. That was not the question, thanks.

It was simply a questioning as to why the dogs acted as they did. I no longer want to know the opinions on this board since it seems that noone is able to answer a simple question with an opinion without berating the poster. I seriously cannot believe I survived the "ruined" post only to be turned off by this one. Noone is playing a victim or feeling sorry for herself, I will contiue to do what I do with these dogs whether or not someone likes it.

Yeah, fuck me, good job people on this thread, you did a real good service to the dogs, bravo to you.

you are to busy with being full of yourself......I answerd you. You apparently blew by it or I didnt insite a debate or argument out of you.

Not enough meat I suppose.....LOL

[lovebeingme]

you are to busy with being full of yourself......I answerd you. You apparently blew by it or I didnt insite a debate or argument out of you.

Not enough meat I suppose.....LOL
Let me preface by saying that I know most of my actions were retarded. I was very naive about dogs in general let alone pit bulls. I would never conduct myself in this manner now that I know the proper way to stop what was happening. Also, I am looking for insite as to why my dogs acted the way they did during the altercation, not what mistakes I made (as stated, I already know).

[lovebeingme]

you are to busy with being full of yourself......I answerd you. You apparently blew by it or I didnt insite a debate or argument out of you.

Not enough meat I suppose.....LOL
How am I full of myself?

I am appalled!

What was your answer?

[chloesredboy]

I know i said i was done but my god! we told you why thay acted like they did you just arent listening.It is because of the whole pack mentality thing!Lets say for the sake of argument that what you said about pits being dominate and not having a pack mentality is true(im no saying that you are wrong ,i personally have never heard that but i dont know)Even if thes dogs are not normally prone to forming packs they are still dogs.Dogs by nature are pack animals,if you throw a bunch of them together they will still form a pack structure whether it is in that particular dogs nature or not.This is the only way dogs live with each other they have to work out their dominance issues some how.My dog may not like being part of a pack but given no choice they will eventually form one.

[simms]

How am I full of myself?

I am appalled!

What was your answer?

couple pages back, an it's not a big deal.

[WWII]

Once again you are just being a sarcastic prick.
Well, you didn't like any of the other answers...

LOL@ you getting really defensive on the internet.

[MercedesMama]

Ok, I didnt read all the posts, but here is what I have to say anyway, if I'm just repeating, then sorry. The answer to your question is yes, it could have been a dominance thing, but then again these are Pit Bulls, so what else would you expect? For them to sit around and sing Kumbaya together? Come on now, get real. And to come on here and ask why they fought? My 5 yr old could have answered that for you. But my question to you is, if you have been into bulldogs for so long, then why in the hell would you have let 5 dogs out UNATTENDED? That is insanity, and you should have known how to properly break up a fight if you were willing to let them all be out together. Common sense with this breed honey, use it or get into another breed. And if you dont want to be criticized, then dont post your freakin life story on a public forum. You have been here long enough to know what to expect in our answers.

[BoogiemanBlood]

Let me preface by saying that I know most of my actions were retarded. I was very naive about dogs in general let alone pit bulls. I would never conduct myself in this manner now that I know the proper way to stop what was happening. Also, I am looking for insite as to why my dogs acted the way they did during the altercation, not what mistakes I made (as stated, I already know).go ask ceasar milan. maybe he can baby you through it and not get your tears flowing.

[Rockstar]

Pit bull dogs do indeed have a pack instinct. It's purely a myth that they don't, although the fact that most of them like to fight certainly complicates things sometimes.
Whenever you put two or more dogs of any breed together, you must be prepared to break up a skirmish at some point. I once had a pomeranian and a miniature pinscher that would go toe-to-toe in some of the most vicious displays of aggression you'll ever see out of two little dogs. There are a million different reasons why dogs will fight, and no one could possibly understand them all. Why do humans fight? Philosophers and sociologists have been trying to answer that question for millennia, and still are scratching their heads. If we can't even understand our own violence, how can we pretend to have answers in regard to that of the dog?
To come to a message board -any message board- and ask, "why did my dogs fight?" is like asking why so many game-dog.com members are so quick to judge another without first acknowledging their own ignorance and inefficiencies.
The only honest answer I can think to give:

Nature.


Some dogs will get along with some dogs; some won't, whether they be pit bulls or chihuahuas. Expect that they won't get along at some point, and you will be, at the least, unlikely to be disappointed.

[WWII]

Ok, I didnt read all the posts, but here is what I have to say anyway, if I'm just repeating, then sorry. The answer to your question is yes, it could have been a dominance thing, but then again these are Pit Bulls, so what else would you expect? For them to sit around and sing Kumbaya together? Come on now, get real. And to come on here and ask why they fought? My 5 yr old could have answered that for you. But my question to you is, if you have been into bulldogs for so long, then why in the hell would you have let 5 dogs out UNATTENDED? That is insanity, and you should have known how to properly break up a fight if you were willing to let them all be out together. Common sense with this breed honey, use it or get into another breed. And if you dont want to be criticized, then dont post your freakin life story on a public forum. You have been here long enough to know what to expect in our answers.
You are avoiding the original point prick. I know I was naive and my actions were dumb. But I'm asking WHY THIS HAPPENED TO MY DOGS?!?!

I know I'm not wanted here. Thanks for doing a service to the dogs....


There, I replied for you lovebeingme. No need to now.

[BoogiemanBlood]

Ok, I didnt read all the posts, but here is what I have to say anyway, if I'm just repeating, then sorry. The answer to your question is yes, it could have been a dominance thing, but then again these are Pit Bulls, so what else would you expect? For them to sit around and sing Kumbaya together? Come on now, get real. And to come on here and ask why they fought? My 5 yr old could have answered that for you. But my question to you is, if you have been into bulldogs for so long, then why in the hell would you have let 5 dogs out UNATTENDED? That is insanity, and you should have known how to properly break up a fight if you were willing to let them all be out together. Common sense with this breed honey, use it or get into another breed. And if you dont want to be criticized, then dont post your freakin life story on a public forum. You have been here long enough to know what to expect in our answers.bravo!!!! bravo!!! encore!!! encore!!!!

i especially like the part about your 5 yr old and the been into bulldogs, why you left 5 unattended. but of course you will be wrong and not have answered her question either. and last but not least......i think you hit the nail on the head with the "COMMON SENSE" factor. it appears to be lacking

[chloesredboy]

Pit bull dogs do indeed have a pack instinct. It's purely a myth that they don't, although the fact that most of them like to fight certainly complicates things sometimes.
Whenever you put two or more dogs of any breed together, you must be prepared to break up a skirmish at some point. I once had a pomeranian and a miniature pinscher that would go toe-to-toe in some of the most vicious displays of aggression you'll ever see out of two little dogs. There are a million different reasons why dogs will fight, and no one could possibly understand them all. Why do humans fight? Philosophers and sociologists have been trying to answer that question for millennia, and still are scratching their heads. If we can't even understand our own violence, how can we pretend to have answers in regard to that of the dog?
To come to a message board -any message board- and ask, "why did my dogs fight?" is like asking why so many game-dog.com members are so quick to judge another without first acknowledging their own ignorance and inefficiencies.
The only honest answer I can think to give:

Nature.


Some dogs will get along with some dogs; some won't, whether they be pit bulls or chihuahuas. Expect that they won't get along at some point, and you will be, at the least, unlikely to be disappointed.Thank you rockstar ,very well said but it is exactly what we have been saying to her all night you are just being nicer about it ,telling someone something fifty times tends to frazzle your nerves but maybe she will get it now that you have been oh ,so sweet!LOL

[MercedesMama]

bravo!!!! bravo!!! encore!!! encore!!!!

i especially like the part about your 5 yr old and the been into bulldogs, why you left 5 unattended. but of course you will be wrong and not have answered her question either. and last but not least......i think you hit the nail on the head with the "COMMON SENSE" factor. it appears to be lacking
I just dont get why she doesnt understand why her dogs got into a fight? And why did she have to post a 50 page book before getting to the question at hand?

[BoogiemanBlood]

I just dont get why she doesnt understand why her dogs got into a fight? And why did she have to post a 50 page book before getting to the question at hand?cuz i think she's here to be more of a drama queen than educate herself.

this whole freakin story is the same exact story she had the big drama thread about the other day.

maybe she should find a day's of our lives forum and continue there. lol :D

[MercedesMama]

cuz i think she's here to be more of a drama queen than educate herself.

this whole freakin story is the same exact story she had the big drama thread about the other day.

maybe she should find a day's of our lives forum and continue there. lol :D
Haha, you so funny...LOL

[CynthiaATL]

I have 2 males in my house now. 1 altered 1 not. The altered male is 3 and the unaltered is 1. Now even though I brought Mike (1) in as a puppy and they have been raised together means nothing. And even though they have a "bond" they can turn on each other at the blink of an eye. And sometimes it boils down to a look. It is that simple. If you read up on basic dog behavior that might help. And study pack order. You can cause a fight. Your dogs get their signals from YOU. You have to remember thay are not human. Animals have different rationality then us. And if you have already read up on it that should have answered your own question. Also you may never understand why they did what they did.

Never think that you can leave them un-attended for a second.

Now the reason I think ppl are being hard on you. Is although you "have a good heart" And MEAN well. What you may be doing a dis-service to the breed (because of lack of knowledge). And ppl on this forum will fight for this breed.

This breed is already under attack. A lot of people want to exterminate the breed as is. And plenty of ppl that meant well have done harm to the breed(ir-responsibility).

It takes more responsibility than the average dog owner to own this breed.

I have made mistakes and Now I am paying (out of pocket) for them.

What I want to know is why the rescue gave you those dogs being a novice to the breed. And so many at a time. And you admitt to being uneducated with the breed at that time. So why would they give them to you?

I grew up (I am 30) with APBT (my father's dogs) but I still consider myself a novice.

[catcher T]

Lovebeingme,,right from the first post from a member here you got on your high horse and cocky,,,everyone was trying to answer you questions,,,not one post was good enough for you,,if you read these posts you will see that it was answered. The other thread that you took over had some funny posts,,now I have decided that you are just obnoxious

[QuarterBullSpitz]

Atleast this somewhat addressed the original post. Somewhat..

I will try to say this clearly and to the point.

There was a fight in my house quite a while ago.

I was wondering what other's thoughts were on why my dogs did not attack eachother, but bonded together to bring down the foster.

I was wondering why the foster did not continue to attack.

I was wondering if even pitbulls can feel a pack mentality and join to beating down an opponent.

I was wondering why Bastian cam to Bella's aid and saved her from the foster.

I had alot of questions, but so far in this thread, have felt that everyone just wants to insult. Giving opinions is one thing, but when the original post expresses that the actions of that day are admitantly wrong, there is no need to pound that point in, it's already admitted.Lol...Don't romanitize the situation chances are your "Bella" submitted and your cur foster let go. The real proof would be to let them run together and see who submits to one another, don't forget once you stop breeding for certian traites they go away very quickly and these dogs become your average dog (i.e. respecting the submission and stopping and submiting altogether). Also these are things that don't matter, fact is don't let these dogs loose together and get the proper equipment to break it up.

[cctraywick]

Now, after the LONGEST post you have ever read! I have a question.

It was very obvious that my Bella did not want to fight. It was also very evident that Bastian was not in it to kill. Jersey may have been, but it seems that my 2 dogs were only trying to put her in her place. It seems once she submitted, they let her be, they did not continue until she was no longer.

I mean, is that possible, that the fight was only a try for dominance, and once Jersey realized she was dominated she submitted? Does this happen often? I've just always been curious what others opinions are on the whole thing. it's very interesting to me.I think you're a bit of an idealist. Dogs are, after all, merely dogs - no matter how we love them and play up their attributes, they still think and act like DOGS.

From what I've gathered, your two weren't attempting to put Jersey in her place - Jersey started in on Bella in what was most likely an attempt to establish dominance (and, yes, that's perfectly possible - not sure why you would question whether or not it was, but whatev.) and Bella submitted by not fighting back.

Bastian probably jumped in because he thought it looked like good, old fashioned fun - not because he wanted to save his girlfriend,lol. And who knows why Jersey let go. Maybe she got tired, maybe she thought she would have to wrestle with Bastian and then Bastian didn't want to go round with her, who knows. You weren't supervising them for whatever reason, so no one can say for sure.

I mean, your question is just really odd. Yes, dog fights happen, yes they happen for a number of reasons including dominance issues, and yes they stop for just as many reasons and no one can tell you what was going on in their head.

My opinion on the situation would be that you had five curs under the same roof, three of 'em got a little too frisky, but they still all curred out before any real harm was done. Be thankful, I suppose.

That's about as direct an answer as you can expect to that obscure question of yours.

For the record, whoever said "Ride Or Die Fool" - you rock, fosho.

[Michele]

Lovebeingme: go back and read the posts here. Every post answers your question. And no one was being rude. IMO, and you might take this as being rude, I don't know, but you should of researched the breed before putting your hands on it. I mean really researched it. The breed is not for everyone. I would love to have one, but until I'm ready, I won't subject the dog to possible being put down because of my ignorance and more importantly, I won't give anyone another notch in their belt for BSL. I personally think it was a dominance issue that you had.

[Chef-Kergin]

just don't keep that many housed, unattended, unseparated for any amount of time. it's the only safe bet, and the animals will be happier then, too.

if you go to get your mail, separate them.

get in the shower?

separate them.

outside on the phone?

separate them.

[lovebeingme]

The point of me spelling out that I know I did things wrong was to admit guilt at the beginning. The point of stating that I was not looking for opinions on what my actions were but more about how my dogs acted was just as it was stated.

Instead I was insulted over and over again. How you can say it was not rude Michelle is beyond me.

But whatever, I'm done.

Think whatever you will of me, I truly don't care anymore.

[dogged]

I think you're a bit of an idealist. Dogs are, after all, merely dogs - no matter how we love them and play up their attributes, they still think and act like DOGS.

From what I've gathered, your two weren't attempting to put Jersey in her place - Jersey started in on Bella in what was most likely an attempt to establish dominance (and, yes, that's perfectly possible - not sure why you would question whether or not it was, but whatev.) and Bella submitted by not fighting back.

Bastian probably jumped in because he thought it looked like good, old fashioned fun - not because he wanted to save his girlfriend,lol. And who knows why Jersey let go. Maybe she got tired, maybe she thought she would have to wrestle with Bastian and then Bastian didn't want to go round with her, who knows. You weren't supervising them for whatever reason, so no one can say for sure.

I mean, your question is just really odd. Yes, dog fights happen, yes they happen for a number of reasons including dominance issues, and yes they stop for just as many reasons and no one can tell you what was going on in their head

I couldn't agree more.

[Pitbull219]

Bottom line: Be more careful about your dogs being together, supervised or not! Also, get yourself a breaking stick and learn how to use it.

[hashishin]

my opinion is like what hapened to me.
i have a couple o apbt's, my female raised my male and one day she bit him and he bit her until they were banged up. it went very well for 16 months then , well all of you know how it's like.
i try a couple off times to join them again but she will fight the male. and they pass all day criyng to each other over the kennels.

sorry but i think all you guys said it all.

never let 2 or more bulldog's,males or females, together with or without supervision.

someone is gonna start some hell!!!!

a breaking stick and learning how to use it it's a good way to go around it but in the end is better to keep them separated.

best regards

[BoogiemanBlood]

The point of me spelling out that I know I did things wrong was to admit guilt at the beginning. The point of stating that I was not looking for opinions on what my actions were but more about how my dogs acted was just as it was stated.

Instead I was insulted over and over again. How you can say it was not rude Michelle is beyond me.

But whatever, I'm done.

Think whatever you will of me, I truly don't care anymore.more drama queeen.

as far as being done....good!

[BoiBoi]

Hey jamie, i think i figured u out a little by this idiotic post. Ur nothing but an attention whore who thrives on everyone commenting on you and ur life. Get over urself already, u said this happened over a year ago, well why the hell are u still talking about it. Is ur life that boring that u have to bring up shit from a year ago, holy f*ck u need to step back and actually analyze urself for a minute cause ever since u've been on this board it has been nothing but drama coming from u. Sure plenty of people come here and start shit but after they get their asses handed to them they finally decided to shut up and learn somethin but u just insist that u know best, when in fact u obviously don't know jack about dogs, let alone pitbulls. I think u got everything u deserved when that fight happened because u were probably one of those uptight, i know best type of people and decided that u were gonna save the world one dog at a time. Im sorry but just because ur relatives or friends owned pitbulls doesn't mean u've had 10 years experience with them. To have experience with these dogs is to go through day after day of being careful to keep them safe from eachother and u obviously didn't do that by letting 6 animal aggressive dogs run together, ur effing insane i hope u know that. Oh and to answer ur question, ur two dogs ganged up on ur foster because they were a formed back, many people have told u this plenty of times already but u chose to question why like a little damn kid that just doesn't understand. If u really don't know the answer to the question u originally posted than u should seriously consider getting rid of ur dogs for ur safety and the safety of others, in this case ur fosters might have been better off being euthed, get a brain homegirl

[Suki]

and with that last post, I will now close this...