I want to know if this dog is good for conformation aswell

[sedaliapitbulls]

Just curious If I should spend the time getting otto ready for show Just saw the other post and Thought I would ask the same questions since I plan on showing him

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/5/0/6/4/pic5.JPG
http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/5/0/6/4/pic3.JPG

[GSDbulldog]

Looks a bit heavy, but it's hard to tell. Do you have any stacked shots?

[sedaliapitbulls]

no he is to hyper to stack I am working on that that. When I get him ready to show I,ll get some better pics. He is weighing about 38 pounds. I can slim him down a little but its winter and I,m not even trying to dam cold here right now.

[sedaliapitbulls]

By the whey the pic is just off the chain.

[Patch O' Pits]

It is really hard to tell anything from those picts

how is his head and bite? What does he move like?

remember No dog has perfect conformation so if you post stacked picts we can get a better idea of his faults and good points

Try using some bait to get him to stand still

[sedaliapitbulls]

bite is perfect sizor and his head is preatty square short snout on my appinion. wide head though.

[WWII]

IMO, he probably won't do well in the show ring. I haven't really seen ticked or white dogs do so well. Plus, I think his back legs are a little too stubby and strait and the hips look pretty wide. Maybe try weight pulling?

[catcher T]

Looks a bit heavy, but it's hard to tell. Do you have any stacked shots?
agreed,,,stack him up when you can do it,,,his neck looks a little short,,,when stacked you can make it look long,,,when I go in the ring,,dosen't matter which breed I have,,I will hide the flaws by stacking. take him in the ring for grins,,,if a judge dosen't put him up ask why at the end,,they will tell ya.

[pittfallin]

a couple of things....in the ukc ...maybe, but because of all the white i dont think so...theres actully a guideline somewhere about how much white is considered acceptible

the adba, i dont think you have a chance......one, because of the white again
and also you need to slim hir up ALOT for the adba...the back legs are way to thick. stacking in the adba isnt as important as it is in the ukc
ukc:important
adba:not so much

hope i helped without pissing you off, you have a beautiful dog

[sedaliapitbulls]

oh your opinions are not pissing me off you are telling me what I need to know. That is perfect rep points to you all. If he will be willing I will deffentely try him out in weight pull. I,ll try to get him to darly's asoon as possible to get him training on a track.

[BoogiemanBlood]

don't let the all white stop you, that's a bunch of bs. i've seen plenty of all white dogs place in the adba. the dog is a little heavy and not conditioned as i'm sure you prbly know. when you planning on going to a show? if soon you should prbly get to working him. those pics it's pretty hard to tell, just get him in shape and take ur shot. good luck!

[sedaliapitbulls]

Yes I have seen all white champions and grand champions. But yes I,ll give it a shot. It dosn,t take to many shows to figure out if the dog is going to be worth showing or not. I do love to weight pull and I might just weight pull him.

[Lethalpits]

There is a standard for how much white a dog can have whats with that?

[bahamutt99]

AKC addresses amount of white in the coat. UKC does not. Neither does ADBA that I know of. So if you're showing an AmStaff, worry about it. If you're showing an APBT, color isn't going to matter as far as the standard is concerned (except for merle).

[ABK]

AKC addresses amount of white in the coat. UKC does not. Neither does ADBA that I know of. So if you're showing an AmStaff, worry about it. If you're showing an APBT, color isn't going to matter as far as the standard is concerned (except for merle).
The UKC standard states a dog shall not be over 80% white.

ADBA standard does not put any restrictions on white.

[bahamutt99]

The UKC standard states a dog shall not be over 80% white.

ADBA standard does not put any restrictions on white.There is nothing in the UKC standard that says anything about the amount of white. You can find it at UKCdogs.com. It reads "Any color, color pattern, or combination of colors is acceptable, except for merle."

Here is the AKC standard for the AmStaff: "Color
Any color, solid, parti, or patched is permissible, but all white, more than 80 per cent white, black and tan, and liver not to be encouraged."

[sedaliapitbulls]

he actually has little black spots, not visable in the picture.

[BoogiemanBlood]

he actually has little black spots, not visable in the picture.that's called ticking.

[Old Timer]

now i am going from body alone but i like what i see.his back legs are strong looking wich is a plus because these dogs used their back legs alot in the pit the front legs also look strong.i think if you conditioned him and put some lean muscle on him he might do pretty fair in a ADBA type show.it never hurts to try and remember the ADBA standard was set for the type dog that would be a winner in the pit.and i think if you slimmed him down,put some lean muscle on him you might just do pretty fair.try and get some frontal,and side to side so we can look at him better.but i like the looks of him from them 2 pictures.

[Ms. Anthrope]

He deff needs to be worked... Hes too fat... and you gotsta get a better pic of him to tell for sure... get some info offline about proper confirmation...

[sedaliapitbulls]

sorry I havn,t updated my pics mainley because MY ISP has not got me service yet. I am waiting for my wireless for now I am using internet at work and at my moms so I have not downloaded updated pictures

[Atwater27]

Now why to the AKC black and tan shouldn't be encouraged?

[jadedpitgirl]

Now why to the AKC black and tan shouldn't be encouraged?
Because the AKC has rules against a dog resembling an APBT~j/k;)

Sedalia, in the ADBA/AADR, color has nothing to do with winning. Conditioning does. I have seen dogs who had a few faults place over a dog with lesser faults because of the condition they were in. Basically, ADBA looks at a dog to see if his is built for the pit. Would your dog be able to last hours in the box; does his conformation promote this?

If I were you, I would start conditioning right now, go to your next show even if he isn't in top shape. When your class is over, ask the judge his opinion of your dog. He can give you an idea of what you need to do. Whatever he says, don't let it discourage you. Just keep working that dog, and keep attending shows.

I have been showing for 3 years, and I have only had one pup place first (2 times) in one weekend. If anyone should have given up, it's me, but I keep doing it because I enjoy it. Don't show your dog because you think he should be CH, show him for fun and you'll probably get farther. Good Luck!

[ABK]

There is nothing in the UKC standard that says anything about the amount of white. You can find it at UKCdogs.com. It reads "Any color, color pattern, or combination of colors is acceptable, except for merle."
They must have changed it then b/c I have an old UKC standard back from when I used run UKC dogs & it says more than 80% white is not acceptable.

[jadedpitgirl]

They must have changed it then b/c I have an old UKC standard back from when I used run UKC dogs & it says more than 80% white is not acceptable.
I'm pretty sure they said that at one time, ABK, they must have changed it though, because the standard doesn't say anything about it now.

[ABK]

It must have changed. I guess I'm behind the times when it comes to the UKC! ;)

You know if you think about it though, to change it is really stupid.

Firstly, dogs over 80% white are known to have more deafness than other colors, which was why they implimented the over 80% white ban in the first place.

Secondly, most double merles are white & are thus allowed.

They don't want the merles in due to "health reasons," but they allow a color (white) that has known connections to deafness. AND the don't want the most healthy merle in but they'll allow the genetic nightmare of merles in (solid white double merle).

I never could figure that out. :rolleyes:

[jadedpitgirl]

It must have changed. I guess I'm behind the times when it comes to the UKC! ;)

You know if you think about it though, to change it is really stupid.

Firstly, dogs over 80% white are known to have more deafness than other colors, which was why they implimented the over 80% white ban in the first place.

Secondly, most double merles are white & are thus allowed.

They don't want the merles in due to "health reasons," but they allow a color (white) that has known connections to deafness. AND the don't want the most healthy merle in but they'll allow the genetic nightmare of merles in (solid white double merle).

I never could figure that out. :rolleyes:The UKC and the ADBA have banned merle because they are unsure of the origin of the merle APBT. I will not argue the point about merle origin, I have my own theories about it, but this is not the topic of discussion.
On the other hand, however, white dogs are not necessarily any healthier/unhealthier than any other color. Deafness can be linked to dogs who have a lot of white, but the neighbor's black dog can be deaf too. Most deaf dogs will have pink skin, blue eyes and/or a white coat (basically an albino). The color of hair in the inner ear is the real factor. They have linked it with deafness, more than any other contributor. Bottom line, if you have a predominantly white dog or a dog with a white head, have them BAER tested if you are concerned about possible deafness.

Sorry for the rant, I was just trying to point out reasonings behind the standards. Also, I do understand your concern with MM dogs. That's why only experienced breeders should be breeding merle dogs IMO.

[ABK]

Hmmmmm. If they are unsure about the origin of merle, why do they still let pups off merles be registered?

Yeah, a lot of ppl don't know that. But the only papers that were voided for merles were those off Boham's Venom. Other merles still have valid papers & while merle pups off any future litters from cannot be registered, other colors off them CAN be.

So let's say I have a litter by my merle & he throws 5 merles & 5 blacks. The merles cannot be registered, but the blacks can. In fact, I know of a guy right now who has a Faulk bred merle. He recently had a litter by her & he registered all the non-merle pups w/ the ADBA no problem.

Funny huh?

But back to whites ...

The color white (or lack therof, as white is not really a color but instead is the absence of it) is directly associated w/ deafness. For example, in Bull Terriers, 19.9% of white dogs suffer some type of deafness, as opposed to 1.3% for colored dogs.

From what I understand, in white-realted deafness, the blood supply can be disrupted to still developing inner ear mechanisms of fetal pups. This disruption of the blood supply is assocated w/ lack of pigment in the inner ear.

Family genetics can also play a role & if a family of dogs has a predisposition for deafness, any color dog could be born deaf.

However, the fact remains that there is a well documented connection between white dogs & deafness. But I guess all this is moot since both registries allow white dogs now.

[jadedpitgirl]

Hmmmmm. If they are unsure about the origin of merle, why do they still let pups off merles be registered?

Yeah, a lot of ppl don't know that. But the only papers that were voided for merles were those off Boham's Venom. Other merles still have valid papers & while merle pups off any future litters from cannot be registered, other colors off them CAN be.

I didn't know this was allowed. I thout that previously registered merles would stay registered, but they would not allow any new registration of pups from merle parents (regardless of pup's color).

So let's say I have a litter by my merle & he throws 5 merles & 5 blacks. The merles cannot be registered, but the blacks can. In fact, I know of a guy right now who has a Faulk bred merle. He recently had a litter by her & he registered all the non-merle pups w/ the ADBA no problem.

What's the difference between colors when they all come off of the same merle parent?:confused:

Funny huh?

But back to whites ...

The color white (or lack therof, as white is not really a color but instead is the absence of it) is directly associated w/ deafness. For example, in Bull Terriers, 19.9% of white dogs suffer some type of deafness, as opposed to 1.3% for colored dogs.

From what I understand, in white-realted deafness, the blood supply can be disrupted to still developing inner ear mechanisms of fetal pups. This disruption of the blood supply is assocated w/ lack of pigment in the inner ear.

Wasn't sure what the inner ear had to do with it, but I knew it was a major factor.

Family genetics can also play a role & if a family of dogs has a predisposition for deafness, any color dog could be born deaf.

Absolutely.

However, the fact remains that there is a well documented connection between white dogs & deafness. But I guess all this is moot since both registries allow white dogs now.

I know the majority of dogs are mostly white (or white heads), but there are plenty of white dogs who are perfectly healthy and I don't think they should be excluded from participating in dog events (any registery). I do believe it should be up to the owner of a white dog to have the dog BAER tested if they are unsure of his hearing abilities.


My replies are in purple.

[sedaliapitbulls]

Why is merle considered a defect and not accepted. I dont understand this can someone fill me in please.

[ABK]

Jaded: Previously registered merles not off Venom stay registered & from what I understand they cannot show, but non-merle pups off them CAN be registered. But the papers of any dog off Boham's Venom on the other hand are completely void & I do not think any pups can be registered off any Venom dog regardless of color.

I think they did this b/c of all the problems w/ Madison bred merles. Once the ADBA got so many calls about the ill Madison dogs, they began looking into the background of his dogs & found Venom - a chocolate merle w/ a black nose - was off of 2 rednosed parents. This is considered a genetic impossibility, so they contacted Mr. Boham about it. He refused to talk to the ADBA, so they just pulled the papers on Venom & all her offspring.

There is no real difference between a merle pup & a non-merle pup from the same parents. IMO they DQ'ed all merles to keep the unhealthy & questionably bred Venom dogs from getting back into the gene pool via paper hanging.

I think dogs over 80% should be made a DQ again. This has nothing really to do w/ white dogs, but it would weed out the double merles who are almost always solid white or nearly so & thus are usually registered as whites. It is the double merles who are the genetic nightmares & it is very important to me that they be caught & culled.

JMHO.

Sedalia: A breeder named H. Madison has put out some unhealthy merle dogs of questionable pedigree. Merle was made a DQ across the board to keep these dogs out of the gene pool.

[jaystreetsA4]

great threead:D

[BoogiemanBlood]

Jaded: Previously registered merles not off Venom stay registered & from what I understand they cannot show, but non-merle pups off them CAN be registered. But the papers of any dog off Boham's Venom on the other hand are completely void & I do not think any pups can be registered off any Venom dog regardless of color.

I think they did this b/c of all the problems w/ Madison bred merles. Once the ADBA got so many calls about the ill Madison dogs, they began looking into the background of his dogs & found Venom - a chocolate merle w/ a black nose - was off of 2 rednosed parents. This is considered a genetic impossibility, so they contacted Mr. Boham about it. He refused to talk to the ADBA, so they just pulled the papers on Venom & all her offspring.

There is no real difference between a merle pup & a non-merle pup from the same parents. IMO they DQ'ed all merles to keep the unhealthy & questionably bred Venom dogs from getting back into the gene pool via paper hanging.

I think dogs over 80% should be made a DQ again. This has nothing really to do w/ white dogs, but it would weed out the double merles who are almost always solid white or nearly so & thus are usually registered as whites. It is the double merles who are the genetic nightmares & it is very important to me that they be caught & culled.

JMHO.

Sedalia: A breeder named H. Madison has put out some unhealthy merle dogs of questionable pedigree. Merle was made a DQ across the board to keep these dogs out of the gene pool.thanks alot for that info. i knew hardly anything about merles.

[MASON]

Sedalia: From looking at the pics of your dog, it looks like the rear is beefed up a little but as Boogie stated, try working him down to a conditioned weight and then analyze him. You will never know his potential until after you bring him in the ring. Each judge has their own opinion of what they think a total dog should look like and notice things that other judges don't. Work him down some and give it a shot, you never know unless you try.

MASON

[sedaliapitbulls]

Thanks I appreciate it. I have yet to place LOL.





Because the AKC has rules against a dog resembling an APBT~j/k;)

Sedalia, in the ADBA/AADR, color has nothing to do with winning. Conditioning does. I have seen dogs who had a few faults place over a dog with lesser faults because of the condition they were in. Basically, ADBA looks at a dog to see if his is built for the pit. Would your dog be able to last hours in the box; does his conformation promote this?

If I were you, I would start conditioning right now, go to your next show even if he isn't in top shape. When your class is over, ask the judge his opinion of your dog. He can give you an idea of what you need to do. Whatever he says, don't let it discourage you. Just keep working that dog, and keep attending shows.

I have been showing for 3 years, and I have only had one pup place first (2 times) in one weekend. If anyone should have given up, it's me, but I keep doing it because I enjoy it. Don't show your dog because you think he should be CH, show him for fun and you'll probably get farther. Good Luck!

[Patch O' Pits]

As for color, any color except merle is acceptable in both ADBA and UKC. What color are the dogs eyes, in UKC blue eyes are not acceptable. I ask because sometimes mostly wite dogs also lack good eye pigment.

LIke I said there is no way to tell if that dog is show quality from the picts. You can however go on www.apbtconformation.com (http://www.apbtconformation.com) and look at the standards and examples in pictures showing how each body part should be and that may help you until you get picts up. The dog definately is not conditioned for ADBA IMO, but that doesn't mean his conformation is bad. You just can't tell anything much from the angles of those picts

They must have changed it then b/c I have an old UKC standard back from when I used run UKC dogs & it says more than 80% white is not acceptable.
When did you show...I've only been involved with UKC since 1997 but at least since than the standard said nothing about the 80% white. I have books that date back father and none say that either. Are you sure you just aren't confused with the AKC Amstaff standard.

The changes that were made most recently were for the exclusion of Merle

[jadedpitgirl]

Thanks for the reply, ABK. I have learned quite a bit.

[ABK]

Patch: I do not think I am confusing it w/ AmStaffs as I have never been involved w/ that breed.

It was from an old UKC pamphlet (sp?). I still have in around somewhere. I don't know when the publish date was. It was paper & green in color.

Jaded: That's no problem at all. There is a lot of misinfomation out there about merle & it was a pleasure to help.