weighted collars and harnesses

[tommy3]

I have been noticing a lot of talk concerning weighted collars and harnesses. What do you actually think you are going to achieve by adding extra weight through a collar or harness?
What purpose does it serve? It would be somewhat understandable if the dog is competing at a very high level and every small detail matters. However, for the vast majority of the dogs, it is absolutely unnecessary. It puts an unneeded strain on the dog.
Is it to make the dog bigger? There are much better ways to put on muscle and even then, you won't be able to make much of a difference pertaining to muscle size. I have seen dogs that look the exact same prior to being put through extensive weight pull training. So, in my opinion, it serves no purpose as far as looks.
Therefore, why the hell do people insist on doing this to their dogs. It is common knowledge that the added weight to a dog's neck can cause problems. Yet, some people will continue to do so.
Also, why is it that some people will criticize people for using chains as collars and harnesses but at the same time will tell them to use a weighted collar or harness instead?

In my opinion, weighted collars and harnesses, whether if it is a chain or not, can be very damaging to the dog and is unnecessary 99.999% of the time. Instead of slapping some weight to your dog, why won't you do some real work with it instead?? I seriously doubt that everyone I have been hearing talking about using weighted harnesses or collars are competing at a high enough level to even consider adding the extra weight.

By the way, for those of you that don't know, the chain for collars and harnesses not only can cause major damage to your dog but it further pushes the idea that our dogs are vicious. It looks extremely ignorant and it looks like it is painful for the dog. This is why the public thinks APBT owners are a bunch of sadistic assholes. Not to mention, when some kid sees your dog with the chain on their neck, they may turn around and do the same to their dog, causing unneeded suffering. I have seen puppies with big chains on their neck. Where do you think they got this stupid idea from?

[kane85]

i think the dogs that do the weight pulling sport are the ones that should use this only but if your just putting your dog in a show or any type of show you should just go the natural way hand walk with out weights,spring pole,swimming,sprint work,trade mill anything is actually good for them even a good old catch game with a ball works.

[tommy3]

i think the dogs that do the weight pulling sport are the ones that should use this only but if your just putting your dog in a show or any type of show you should just go the natural way hand walk with out weights,spring pole,swimming,sprint work,trade mill anything is actually good for them even a good old catch game with a ball works.

Tell me if I'm wrong but if you are doing weight pulling, wouldn't make more sense to have the dog drag weights instead of having weight put on its neck? If you are training for weight pulling, wouldn't you want to focus on working the dog in a manner that is consistent with the type of competition that it is competing in? For example, dragging weights for weight pull. Afterall, that is what the dog is going to do for competition.

[Saiyagin]

It would be somewhat understandable if the dog is competing at a very high level and every small detail matters. Yup I agree with Tommy other then that you dont really need to use a weighted collar.

[kane85]

Tell me if I'm wrong but if you are doing weight pulling, wouldn't make more sense to have the dog drag weights instead of having weight put on its neck? If you are training for weight pulling, wouldn't you want to focus on working the dog in a manner that is consistent with the type of competition that it is competing in? For example, dragging weights for weight pull. Afterall, that is what the dog is going to do for competition.your right but that was my opinion on the only reson why even use a weighted collar or anything with wights in it and i dont know why people would even use a weighted coller for doing the flirt pole and then on top of that they give neggative comments cause people work the flirt pole with there dog on the chain i know tons of people that do it cause the dog alone knows how to move on the chain and if they dont they learn fast and you dont have to use heavy chains when working them on the chain and this is why people do it on the chain cause they dont want them to be yard accidents and oh yeah its also lazy when useing weights to work you dog out i guess to each his own.

[calikeith]

Any dog that shows physical defectiveness from conditioning was predisposed to such injurys and a poor example of a working dog,i trained my dog in weight pull
by draging weights of up to 50 pounds,long 5 mile bike pulls/runs with weighted collar/flirt pole with weighted collar,rabbit coursing with or with out weighted collar and never once was there any signs of injury.When done responsably all weighted collars will do is add just a bit more weight to a work out,heres my old dog at 90 pounds with a 3 pound collar after a five mile run,all was well....

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/calikeith/Picture20043.jpg

[dunlap]

I dont see any problem at all with weighted collars or harnesses when used properly. Now the people that use big ass chains for collars, that's just retarted. It drives me crazy when I see someone doing that because most of the time it is done for the "bad ass" image. If you think about it, alot of the pit bull shirts, stickers, ect. out there are of them snarling and wearing a huge chain or spiked excessively spiked collar (not knocking spike collars). It just doesnt make sense when people say they hate how the APBT has a bad name but yet they promote the "bad ass" image.

[calikeith]

I dont see any problem at all with weighted collars or harnesses when used properly. Now the people that use big ass chains for collars, that's just retarted. It drives me crazy when I see someone doing that because most of the time it is done for the "bad ass" image. If you think about it, alot of the pit bull shirts, stickers, ect. out there are of them snarling and wearing a huge chain or spiked excessively spiked collar (not knocking spike collars). It just doesnt make sense when people say they hate how the APBT has a bad name but yet they promote the "bad ass" image.very true.anyone walking there dog with a giant chain is a chump,it dosent work well and is a burden to both the human walking the dog and the dog itself..
Im not sure it will hurt a healthy dog,but it is inconvieniant and pointless.Weighted collars and harness have there place when used responsably...

[tommy3]

Any dog that shows physical defectiveness from conditioning was predisposed to such injurys and a poor example of a working dog,i trained my dog in weight pull
by draging weights of up to 50 pounds,long 5 mile bike pulls/runs with weighted collar/flirt pole with weighted collar,rabbit coursing with or with out weighted collar and never once was there any signs of injury.When done responsably all weighted collars will do is add just a bit more weight to a work out,heres my old dog at 90 pounds with a 3 pound collar after a five mile run,all was well....

No matter the shape the dog, if you put weights on its neck it can cause injury. Your reply would make sense if the dog failed under natural occurrences such as, running. However, the dog was not designed to have weights put on its neck. Therefore, if the dog failed because of weight on its neck, it is not because of the dogs "predisposition" to such injuries. It was because of your (not you in particular) ignorance for placing an unnatural weight to the dog. Don't blame the dog when you are the one that is putting the dog through something that its body wasn't designed for.

[calikeith]

wrong,if the dog shows signs of physical distress from a minimal amount of stress any where on its body then its a poor example of a working dog.period....

[tommy3]

wrong,if the dog shows signs of physical distress from a minimal amount of stress any where on its body then its a poor example of a working dog.period....

You are telling me about a working dog when your dog is 90 lbs. LMFAO.

[dunlap]

I have my boy Boudreaux chained up on a Sm/M size tow chain but thats because it is the only thing that will hold him. When I take a dog to town I also have them chained in the bed of my truck. I have a sm/m size chain running diag. in the bed of my truck and it is pad locked to the tie down hooks. I have another piece of chain that is in the center of that one and also locked to it. Then I put a choker around the dogs neck "not where it can choke em" and put a pad lock connecting both ends together as well as hooking to the collar. I do all of this when I'm going to be inside somewhere and cant keep an eye on him/her other wise I just use a clasp to connect their collar to the chain. Some might say that this is un-necesary and all for looks but it's not, I do it so I dont have to worry about some jackass stealing my dog just because it's a pit and they feel they can make a quick buck be it for fighting or breeding.

I see alot of the crack heads around here walking their pits with huge ass chains that are so big it seems that they can barely hold it their self.

[dunlap]

that doesnt make any sense??? what does the dogs weight have to do with it being considered a working dog? pits are not the only "working" dogs...



You are telling me about a working dog when your dog is 90 lbs. LMFAO.

[bakerbt]

You are telling me about a working dog when your dog is 90 lbs. LMFAO.That's what I was thinking. LOL. I have never seen a 90lb working APBT. Hell I've never seen a 90lb APBT at all.

[getemcassius]

my opinion is weighted harnesses can work when used correctly .. i do 20 min 2 days a week with my 45lbs pit... she has no problems from it and it has helped build some strengh over the last 2 monthes it is not backbone of my keep but it is effective... tommy you may not like it or had problems doing it but other people may be able to utilize for what they do.... why would you laugh at a gentleman with a 90 lb working dog ? you have rott/pit for your icon thats not a game dog either

[bakerbt]

why would you laugh at a gentleman with a 90 lb working dog ? you have rott/pit for your icon thats not a game dog either That is a game-bred dog. Yes they do come in tri-color. How are you going to tell someone how their own dog is bred by looking at a pic. Their have been plenty of great game dogs that were that color.

[calikeith]

thats because the dogs a bandogge.
Anyways heres how the collar works,alot of people want to think it sets tightly against the dogs neck,when in reality it sits back on the dogs shoulder a chest area,all it does is adds a bit of weight to a workout and muscle to the shoulder and chest,nothing to extreme,when used responsably it is fine,ill use it again for sure,but thats just me....

[dunlap]

Ok, now I'm lost...Did he say that this dog is an APBT:confused: . I was under the impression that he was showing us a pic of his bull mas. or AB...



That's what I was thinking. LOL. I have never seen a 90lb working APBT. Hell I've never seen a 90lb APBT at all.

[calikeith]

Ok, now I'm lost...Did he say that this dog is an APBT:confused: . I was under the impression that he was showing us a pic of his bull mas. or AB...He was a ddb,apbt,corso bandogge,i never stated he was a game dog,but he sure as hell was a working dog...

[realonebulldog]

wrong,if the dog shows signs of physical distress from a minimal amount of stress any where on its body then its a poor example of a working dog.period.... To put weight on the neck of a dog is absolutely pointlessly. You think your dog gets more muscles from that? Thats nonsense. Have seen Bulldogs with steel-necks and this dogs have never ever seen a weight...its genetic. Swimming, springpole , a walk, or let the dog pull you. All the natural things make the muscles a little harder and give your dog the second-wind Perseverance.

[bakerbt]

thats because the dogs a bandogge.
Please explain

[dunlap]

How is a springpole a "natural" thing...



To put weight on the neck of a dog is absolutely pointlessly. You think your dog gets more muscles from that? Thats nonsense. Have seen Bulldogs with steel-necks and this dogs have never ever seen a weight...its genetic. Swimming, springpole , a walk, or let the dog pull you. All the natural things make the muscles a little harder and give your dog the second-wind Perseverance.

[calikeith]

ceartinly,it adds just a bit of toning,im mean im not just talking out of the side of my neck,the proof is in the pudding....My dog was on a very real condotioning regiment,what works for others my not work for some but it was good for this dog.nothings going to overcome a dogs genetics but a little resistance never hurts...This particular dog was 24 inches at the withers and 90 pounds,he was a machine and compleatly functional,i give alot of credit to all the conditioning he was under,would he have been just as toned without it,possably, but i didnt hurt ethier,jm2c....

[calikeith]

Please explainwell if were talking about my dog,he was a working bull and molosser hybrid.....

[bakerbt]

He was a ddb,apbt,corso bandogge,i never stated he was a game dog,but he sure as hell was a working dog...I thought you were saying he was a APBT. It was my mistake for calling you out like that.

[bakerbt]

I would really like to know how someone could think that the tri-colored dog is a mix. He is a perfect example on how this breed should look.

[calikeith]

no doubt bro,
I aint new to this thing i understand fully,i would of done the same to somebody claiming there giant was a apbt....

[getemcassius]

weighted harnesses work when used correctly but can hurt a dog if not used correctly same thing with carpet mills , slate mills, etc .... its not even really a discussion IF it works the question is does your dog need it or not and how much is safe

[realonebulldog]

How is a springpole a "natural" thing... Very natural....you have never seen how a dog (or wolve) brings large game down? Jump ,hold, shake . That is what canides do best and THATS what they need and like because its in there natur.....and all those natural things are the best training.

[dunlap]

I've often wondered about alot of the tri-colored pits. Now the dog that this is about is a beautiful looking APBT but the colors...It looks like it comes from a Rott. or Dob. But then again there alot of odd colored pits out there that are TRULY APBT's...



I would really like to know how someone could think that the tri-colored dog is a mix. He is a perfect example on how this breed should look.

[Saiyagin]

No matter the shape the dog, if you put weights on its neck it can cause injury. Your reply would make sense if the dog failed under natural occurrences such as, running. However, the dog was not designed to have weights put on its neck. Therefore, if the dog failed because of weight on its neck, it is not because of the dogs "predisposition" to such injuries. It was because of your (not you in particular) ignorance for placing an unnatural weight to the dog. Don't blame the dog when you are the one that is putting the dog through something that its body wasn't designed for.
OK let me clear this all up Its ok to use a weighted collar if done properly and correctly, problems arise when an ameture doesnt know what he is doing. Second there is no reason to really use a weighted collar there is only one activity in which it can benefit your dog and that activity is illegal.

[calikeith]

a Weighted collar will benifit a dog outside the "box".For a dog bred to be a "man stopper" it will create a better conditioned and powerfull dog when used along side other conditioning regiments,in a weight pull dog it will build up the chest muscle,a weight pull dog is'nt only pulling from his hined quarters,there getting alot of there strength from the chest,shoulder and back also.A weighted collar would even benifit the catch dog,its good for a multitude of working activitys...

[Pipbull]

I've often wondered about alot of the tri-colored pits. Now the dog that this is about is a beautiful looking APBT but the colors...It looks like it comes from a Rott. or Dob. But then again there alot of odd colored pits out there that are TRULY APBT's...
this coming from the breeder who advertises head size....

That coloration has been around the breed for a loooooong time. It's pretty common in some bloodlines. Not bred for color, it just shows up more frequently because of the dogs.

But back on topic, aren't weighted harnesses alright for the dogs? That's the advice I got from a few people for weightpull. And that's definately not a competition where I want to add mass. But that seems like it would add to dragging weight. But weighted collars.....no way. Just not for me.

[Saiyagin]

a Weighted collar will benifit a dog outside the "box".For a dog bred to be a "man stopper" it will create a better conditioned and powerfull dog when used along side other conditioning regiments,in a weight pull dog it will build up the chest muscle,a weight pull dog is'nt only pulling from his hined quarters,there getting alot of there strength from the chest,shoulder and back also.A weighted collar would even benifit the catch dog,its good for a multitude of working activitys...
Normally I wouldnt reply to such a question but Im just bored right now lol....So here I go... Conditioning a dog to be a man stopper??? All my dogs are unconditioned but they can stop a man if they really wanted to......You said they getting alot of there strength from there chest,shoulder and back but the weighted collar is where? Yes on there NECK so the neck is doing most of the work the chest,shoulders and back is secondary with little benefits unless you using very very heavy weights and that aint good for his neck. The only one I agree with you on is the catch dog.

[miakoda]

It's late/early (however you want to look at it) & I'm exhausted, but I want to through in some indisputed medical info here. Using a weighted collar/chain is NOT safe for the dog nor does it increase power by any means. Using a weighted collar especially puts uneven weight directly over the cervical vertebrae which were NOT designed to perform that duty. You run the risk of paralyzing your dog because of your ego & stupidity. Over time you will break down the vertebrae (resulting in arthritis) & the chance of herniated discs is super high. A weighted harness is safer from a medical standpoint but again it still doesn't distribute weight in a way I would call "safe". It puts undo wear & tear on the joints & really is a lazy man's way out to "bulking up his pit." If you want to see what the advantages are, my advice is to put on a 5 lb weighted collar, get on all fours, & run 5 miles & see how your neck feels.

And for those that are arguing the validity of the weighted collar, I find it amusing & ironic that y'all are so outspoken against those who chain their dogs up on heavy heavy tow chains. What the hell is the difference? Nothing.

And if you are really interested, study racehorses. For racehorses, like Man O War for example, that were handicapped heavily & were forced to carry much more weight than the typical jockey weighs, then they would insert lead weights into the front part of the saddle. However, the sad part is is that this simple task would not just keep an amazing horse from winning but often times it crippled many a horse. Yet had the horse carried the total weight, let's say 128 lbs, in the form of a human, the horse would've been fine, yet instead he carried 108 in the form of a human & 20 in the form of dead weights. Now do some research & figure out why that was & is.......& then you will also realize the correlation b/n a weighted collars & dog breaking down.

[BoogiemanBlood]

I have been noticing a lot of talk concerning weighted collars and harnesses. What do you actually think you are going to achieve by adding extra weight through a collar or harness?
What purpose does it serve? It would be somewhat understandable if the dog is competing at a very high level and every small detail matters. However, for the vast majority of the dogs, it is absolutely unnecessary. It puts an unneeded strain on the dog.
Is it to make the dog bigger? There are much better ways to put on muscle and even then, you won't be able to make much of a difference pertaining to muscle size. I have seen dogs that look the exact same prior to being put through extensive weight pull training. So, in my opinion, it serves no purpose as far as looks.
Therefore, why the hell do people insist on doing this to their dogs. It is common knowledge that the added weight to a dog's neck can cause problems. Yet, some people will continue to do so.
Also, why is it that some people will criticize people for using chains as collars and harnesses but at the same time will tell them to use a weighted collar or harness instead?

In my opinion, weighted collars and harnesses, whether if it is a chain or not, can be very damaging to the dog and is unnecessary 99.999% of the time. Instead of slapping some weight to your dog, why won't you do some real work with it instead?? I seriously doubt that everyone I have been hearing talking about using weighted harnesses or collars are competing at a high enough level to even consider adding the extra weight.

By the way, for those of you that don't know, the chain for collars and harnesses not only can cause major damage to your dog but it further pushes the idea that our dogs are vicious. It looks extremely ignorant and it looks like it is painful for the dog. This is why the public thinks APBT owners are a bunch of sadistic assholes. Not to mention, when some kid sees your dog with the chain on their neck, they may turn around and do the same to their dog, causing unneeded suffering. I have seen puppies with big chains on their neck. Where do you think they got this stupid idea from?i think it's best described like this.

first of all you start very small and work your way up in weight. they have to build up the muscles to carry it just as you would have to build up if you just up and started going to the gym. done correctly that shouldnt hurt the dog at all.

second it's done to help endurance.

if you started running everyday and after a week added a 1lb weight to each hand it would be harder at first. then it gets easier so add 2lb and so on. now you've worked your way up to 5 lbs in each hand with no problems. don't take the weights tomorrow and you should be able to run alot farther than you usually do.

now that answers your first question which was what do you achieve by this. second the majority of people using these items do have their dogs in some sort of competition. be it confirmation, hunting, weight pull, etc.

as far as the chains go, yes they are completely retarded. with that said they should not be compared in any way to a weighted collar. people using chains are trying to look tuff. people using weighted collars are trying to condition their dogs.

hope this helps

[realonebulldog]

It's late/early (however you want to look at it) & I'm exhausted, but I want to through in some indisputed medical info here. Using a weighted collar/chain is NOT safe for the dog nor does it increase power by any means. Using a weighted collar especially puts uneven weight directly over the cervical vertebrae which were NOT designed to perform that duty. You run the risk of paralyzing your dog because of your ego & stupidity. Over time you will break down the vertebrae (resulting in arthritis) & the chance of herniated discs is super high. A weighted harness is safer from a medical standpoint but again it still doesn't distribute weight in a way I would call "safe". It puts undo wear & tear on the joints & really is a lazy man's way out to "bulking up his pit." If you want to see what the advantages are, my advice is to put on a 5 lb weighted collar, get on all fours, & run 5 miles & see how your neck feels.

And for those that are arguing the validity of the weighted collar, I find it amusing & ironic that y'all are so outspoken against those who chain their dogs up on heavy heavy tow chains. What the hell is the difference? Nothing.

And if you are really interested, study racehorses. For racehorses, like Man O War for example, that were handicapped heavily & were forced to carry much more weight than the typical jockey weighs, then they would insert lead weights into the front part of the saddle. However, the sad part is is that this simple task would not just keep an amazing horse from winning but often times it crippled many a horse. Yet had the horse carried the total weight, let's say 128 lbs, in the form of a human, the horse would've been fine, yet instead he carried 108 in the form of a human & 20 in the form of dead weights. Now do some research & figure out why that was & is.......& then you will also realize the correlation b/n a weighted collars & dog breaking down. Very good post...but I think this stuff is much to high for some Experts on here.....^^

[The Watcher]

What do you actually think you are going to achieve by adding extra weight through a collar or harness?
I could use my working harness to build strength in the off season, make sure my dogs stick to those hogs not bounce off. much like athletes use a parashoot for resistance to strength train.
What purpose does it serve?
strength training.
It would be somewhat understandable if the dog is competing at a very high level and every small detail matters.
so by that statement it is safe to assume that this whole thread is directed to those who own petbulls... shew! I thought you were refering to those that own game-dogs.
However, for the vast majority of the dogs, it is absolutely unnecessary.
here lies the problem. you dont know much yourself and yet, your preachin' to others about what works and dont.. the vast majority of these dogs are out of shape prostitutes that are ridding the pine.
It puts an unneeded strain on the dog.
sure, if you jump off the couch in 90 degree heat with 50#s strapped to your dog but, to anyone with an understanding it can and will provide an extra edge.
Is it to make the dog bigger?
absolutely not.
There are much better ways to put on muscle
please share some of your secrets.
and even then, you won't be able to make much of a difference pertaining to muscle size.
completely untrue.
I have seen dogs that look the exact same prior to being put through extensive weight pull training.
again, "looks" are not what we are aiming for.
So, in my opinion, it serves no purpose as far as looks.
surely you have heard what they say about opinions...

It is common knowledge that the added weight to a dog's neck can cause problems.
your right, this is not the activity for the novice.
In my opinion, weighted collars and harnesses, whether if it is a chain or not, can be very damaging to the dog and is unnecessary 99.999% of the time.
once again, thanks for your opinion. wating for your ideas on strength traing. pls. tell us about your method of conditioning that is non- contact, non-stressful, non-abrasive.
Instead of slapping some weight to your dog, why won't you do some real work with it instead??
like??

[Pipbull]

wouldn't dragging weights or a weighted harness be a lot more beneficial than a weighted collar? Resistance training is great and all, but I just don't see how that placement of the weight would help.

[getemcassius]

who in here has a real champion dog ? only then do you have an opinion its alot of guess work going on here... if you never tried it how would you know it doesnt work ? weighted harnesses are not bad for the dog proof is in the champions

[calikeith]

Normally I wouldnt reply to such a question but Im just bored right now lol....So here I go... Conditioning a dog to be a man stopper??? All my dogs are unconditioned but they can stop a man if they really wanted to......You said they getting alot of there strength from there chest,shoulder and back but the weighted collar is where? Yes on there NECK so the neck is doing most of the work the chest,shoulders and back is secondary with little benefits unless you using very very heavy weights and that aint good for his neck. The only one I agree with you on is the catch dog.Weighted collars rest on the dogs shoulders and base of the neck,the common misconception is that they are tight fitting 20 pound choke collars,they are not...also i find the man stopper comment funny,they'd stop a man if they truely wanted to,lol...man stopping guard dogs dont make that disision,they gguard all the time,its not a issue if they want to or not,and of course i know apbts arent supposed to be natural guards but then again im talking about my dog,and he was a bandogge..

[tommy3]

What do you actually think you are going to achieve by adding extra weight through a collar or harness?
I could use my working harness to build strength in the off season, make sure my dogs stick to those hogs not bounce off. much like athletes use a parashoot for resistance to strength train.
What purpose does it serve?
strength training.
It would be somewhat understandable if the dog is competing at a very high level and every small detail matters.
so by that statement it is safe to assume that this whole thread is directed to those who own petbulls... shew! I thought you were refering to those that own game-dogs.
However, for the vast majority of the dogs, it is absolutely unnecessary.
here lies the problem. you dont know much yourself and yet, your preachin' to others about what works and dont.. the vast majority of these dogs are out of shape prostitutes that are ridding the pine.
It puts an unneeded strain on the dog.
sure, if you jump off the couch in 90 degree heat with 50#s strapped to your dog but, to anyone with an understanding it can and will provide an extra edge.
Is it to make the dog bigger?
absolutely not.
There are much better ways to put on muscle
please share some of your secrets.
and even then, you won't be able to make much of a difference pertaining to muscle size.
completely untrue.
I have seen dogs that look the exact same prior to being put through extensive weight pull training.
again, "looks" are not what we are aiming for.
So, in my opinion, it serves no purpose as far as looks.
surely you have heard what they say about opinions...

It is common knowledge that the added weight to a dog's neck can cause problems.
your right, this is not the activity for the novice.
In my opinion, weighted collars and harnesses, whether if it is a chain or not, can be very damaging to the dog and is unnecessary 99.999% of the time.
once again, thanks for your opinion. wating for your ideas on strength traing. pls. tell us about your method of conditioning that is non- contact, non-stressful, non-abrasive.
Instead of slapping some weight to your dog, why won't you do some real work with it instead??
like??Wow Watcher, for one, you have no idea if I am just beginning in these dogs. I have been around them for 15 years and owned them for 10. I may not know as much as you but do not classify me as a complete novice. My posts are directed at those that are not doing any competition and are just throwing weights on dogs for the sake of adding muscle. It is an unneeded strain on the dog. I think you misinterpreted my point.

As you said, which I completely agree, weights in any fashion are not for novices.

I don't know of any non-stressful, non-abrasive ways to condition your dog. However, why does all these people need to put weights on their dog when they are obviously not doing any real competion? That is my point. If you want your dog in shape, just for the sake of keeping the dog in shape, you don't need weights.

You have your opinions and I have mine. Take it as you will. I posted in a manner to ask questions and possibly learn something as well as exhibit differing points of view from other members. Hence, the many questions. I did not post anything as a know it all. At least that wasn't my intention. I believe you misinterpreted the whole tone and purpose of my posts.

[tommy3]

It's late/early (however you want to look at it) & I'm exhausted, but I want to through in some indisputed medical info here. Using a weighted collar/chain is NOT safe for the dog nor does it increase power by any means. Using a weighted collar especially puts uneven weight directly over the cervical vertebrae which were NOT designed to perform that duty. You run the risk of paralyzing your dog because of your ego & stupidity. Over time you will break down the vertebrae (resulting in arthritis) & the chance of herniated discs is super high. A weighted harness is safer from a medical standpoint but again it still doesn't distribute weight in a way I would call "safe". It puts undo wear & tear on the joints & really is a lazy man's way out to "bulking up his pit." If you want to see what the advantages are, my advice is to put on a 5 lb weighted collar, get on all fours, & run 5 miles & see how your neck feels.

And for those that are arguing the validity of the weighted collar, I find it amusing & ironic that y'all are so outspoken against those who chain their dogs up on heavy heavy tow chains. What the hell is the difference? Nothing.

And if you are really interested, study racehorses. For racehorses, like Man O War for example, that were handicapped heavily & were forced to carry much more weight than the typical jockey weighs, then they would insert lead weights into the front part of the saddle. However, the sad part is is that this simple task would not just keep an amazing horse from winning but often times it crippled many a horse. Yet had the horse carried the total weight, let's say 128 lbs, in the form of a human, the horse would've been fine, yet instead he carried 108 in the form of a human & 20 in the form of dead weights. Now do some research & figure out why that was & is.......& then you will also realize the correlation b/n a weighted collars & dog breaking down.
Exactly my point.

[Dirty3rd]

I'm heavily involved in weightpull. I use everything springpoles, flirtpoles, running, walking,and lots of drag weight and track time. BUT I have never used weighted collars or anything similiar. And as far as I know, nobody I'm associated with does'nt either. It really seems pointless. Just another way for someone to profit off of our great breed.

[Saiyagin]

It's late/early (however you want to look at it) & I'm exhausted, but I want to through in some indisputed medical info here. Using a weighted collar/chain is NOT safe for the dog nor does it increase power by any means. Using a weighted collar especially puts uneven weight directly over the cervical vertebrae which were NOT designed to perform that duty. You run the risk of paralyzing your dog because of your ego & stupidity. Over time you will break down the vertebrae (resulting in arthritis) & the chance of herniated discs is super high. A weighted harness is safer from a medical standpoint but again it still doesn't distribute weight in a way I would call "safe". It puts undo wear & tear on the joints & really is a lazy man's way out to "bulking up his pit." If you want to see what the advantages are, my advice is to put on a 5 lb weighted collar, get on all fours, & run 5 miles & see how your neck feels.

If done properly its just like a body builder lifting weights you start of very light and gradually work your way up over time. Even MMA fighters nowdays excercise there neck muscles by doing weight excercises the key is to do it properly and increase the weights gradually unlike some ameture with his ego who slaps on 10lbs on his dogs neck for the first time just to make his dog look tough.

And for those that are arguing the validity of the weighted collar, I find it amusing & ironic that y'all are so outspoken against those who chain their dogs up on heavy heavy tow chains. What the hell is the difference? Nothing.

I have no argument with that.

And if you are really interested, study racehorses. For racehorses, like Man O War for example, that were handicapped heavily & were forced to carry much more weight than the typical jockey weighs, then they would insert lead weights into the front part of the saddle. However, the sad part is is that this simple task would not just keep an amazing horse from winning but often times it crippled many a horse. Yet had the horse carried the total weight, let's say 128 lbs, in the form of a human, the horse would've been fine, yet instead he carried 108 in the form of a human & 20 in the form of dead weights. Now do some research & figure out why that was & is.......& then you will also realize the correlation b/n a weighted collars & dog breaking down.
The APBT is one of the most strongest toughest baddest animal in the world pound for pound and you comparing it to a horse LOL.......Its like me saying if my cat or parrot couldnt handle the weighted collar what makes me think that my APBT can handle it lol.....hahaahahahahahahahahaha.......a horse is a WUSS compared to the APBT.

[toddrock]

The APBT is one of the most strongest toughest baddest animal in the world pound for pound and you comparing it to a horse LOL.......Its like me saying if my cat or parrot couldnt handle the weighted collar what makes me think that my APBT can handle it lol.....hahaahahahahahahahahaha.......a horse is a WUSS compared to the APBT.


A race horse is not a wuss. Have you ever been on a race horse or even seen one up close? They are the ultimate animal athlete. If you are true aficianado of performance apbt's you could not help but be in awe of a well conditioned thoroughbred. Thoroughbreds make millions....yeah millions. There is a reason for that.


I think what Mia was trying to say is she believes a weighted collar is unnesessary as do I. I do not claim to be a conditioning guru or even well schooled with bulldogs. The way I see it is how does it help the dog. Is there a real benefit for the dog in performance. Otherwise why do it.


Most all of use who visit this board are into performance over aesthetics. We are into what gives real results, not like others who want a squatty, wide, "impressive" looking, 80+ pound, blue, "pit", that couldn't fight it's way out of a paper bag. I'd liken dogs to humans. Look at MMA fighters and boxers. They are for the most part very well conditioned athletes. But they only do exercises that relate to fighting. A lot of them, not all, actually stay away from weight lifting in preference for plyometric exercises that have proven more useful for their disciplines. The best MMA fighter pound for pound in the world, Fedor Emilianenko lifts no weights. Remember, it's not a bodybuilding contest. Tank Abbott can bench 600 pounds, but he'd get destroyed by Fedor.


My point is, is the time and effort put into using a weighted collar or harness really friutful? Would more time on a spring pole be as good if not better? I don't know the answer. What is the real benefit of the weighted collar?

[kane85]

Any dog that shows physical defectiveness from conditioning was predisposed to such injurys and a poor example of a working dog,i trained my dog in weight pull
by draging weights of up to 50 pounds,long 5 mile bike pulls/runs with weighted collar/flirt pole with weighted collar,rabbit coursing with or with out weighted collar and never once was there any signs of injury.When done responsably all weighted collars will do is add just a bit more weight to a work out,heres my old dog at 90 pounds with a 3 pound collar after a five mile run,all was well....

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/calikeith/Picture20043.jpglet me tell you something if you are doing everything you say you are doing to that dog work out wise i feel sorry for you that is to big of a dog to be doing that all i have to say is bad hips hope the dog wont need surgary when its older.

[calikeith]

let me tell you something if you are doing everything you say you are doing to that dog work out wise i feel sorry for you that is to big of a dog to be doing that all i have to say is bad hips hope the dog wont need surgary when its older.Take a look at the muscle definition in the back of that dogs legs and tell me im doing something in correct.Also observe the position of this collar[at the base of the neck resting on the shoulders] and the quality of its construction and the padding..what works for some dogs wont work for others and this dog would definetly run circles around many half its size.
Would he have been a impressive animal without it,most definetly,but it didnt hurt,again any dog showing crippling effects from a minimal amount of stress is a cull.Anyways you all make good points,more power to you all and your beliefs.
Lets just realize that with responsable usage,collars and harnesses with weight are only detrimental to the crippled dog predisposed to such defects...

[dunlap]

I dont know about ya'll but I think it's about time this topic was deleted...It's full of tree hugers trying to bitch about something they know nothing about. Anything can be dangerous if not done correctly, but to say that it's dangerous no matter what...that's just ignorant. What's the differents in a weighted collar and a large chain?-nothing- And a spring pole (IMO) is one of the most dangerous training methods out there BUT if you are experienced with it then there is a less of a chance that you'll injur your animal. It's all in the handler, if an idiot puts a weighted collar on his dog 24/7 because he wants a "bad ass" bulldog, then yeah it's harmful. But if you use one while you exercise your dog then whats the problem? I personally stick to walking, running, and good old fashioned fethch and I'm very impressed with the results. I let Boudreaux pull my nephew and other things around from time to time but he's just turned a year old and I plan to make a great weight puller outta him, therefore I'm trying to start off easy and build him up.

It's just driving me crazy seeing some of you bitch about something you know nothing about...And for the kid who made the remark about listing my dog's sizes on my site, GROW UP.

[Saiyagin]

A race horse is not a wuss. Have you ever been on a race horse or even seen one up close? They are the ultimate animal athlete. If you are true aficianado of performance apbt's you could not help but be in awe of a well conditioned thoroughbred. Thoroughbreds make millions....yeah millions. There is a reason for that.

No I havent been on a race horse but I have seen some up close. Ultimate animal athlete? yeah maybe for running lol.....true aficianados of performance APBT's dont look at his conditioning they look at gameness and a horse has no where near the gameness of a Game APBT. Thourough breds make millions? Yeah becasue its legal DUH lol.

I think what Mia was trying to say is she believes a weighted collar is unnesessary as do I. I do not claim to be a conditioning guru or even well schooled with bulldogs. The way I see it is how does it help the dog. Is there a real benefit for the dog in performance. Otherwise why do it.

Unnesassary? Like I said before there is only two activities that is beneficial and one of em is illegal other then that you dont really need to use a weighted collar. Again a ameture not even well schooled with bulldogs trying to compare it to horses lol.....How does it help the dog? I found out how you should do the same lol....Is there a benefit for the dog in performance? YES or we wouldnt do it lol.


Most all of use who visit this board are into performance over aesthetics. We are into what gives real results, not like others who want a squatty, wide, "impressive" looking, 80+ pound, blue, "pit", that couldn't fight it's way out of a paper bag. I'd liken dogs to humans. Look at MMA fighters and boxers. They are for the most part very well conditioned athletes. But they only do exercises that relate to fighting. A lot of them, not all, actually stay away from weight lifting in preference for plyometric exercises that have proven more useful for their disciplines. The best MMA fighter pound for pound in the world, Fedor Emilianenko lifts no weights. Remember, it's not a bodybuilding contest. Tank Abbott can bench 600 pounds, but he'd get destroyed by Fedor.

Performance over aesthetics LOL for WHAT? lol......I know alot of MMA fighters that lift weights. It doesnt matter if Fedor lifts no weights he is the better fighter then Tank but look at Cro cop who is smaller then Fedor who does some weight training knock him out with one kick. Although strength does play a role the better fighter usually wins unless he is totally over powered by the stronger bigger opponent.


My point is, is the time and effort put into using a weighted collar or harness really friutful? Would more time on a spring pole be as good if not better? I don't know the answer. What is the real benefit of the weighted collar?
Although I know the answer to your question its best you find out on your own through your own experiences since you feel like you a true afficianado of performance bulldogs lol.

[miakoda]

I'm curious, Saiygain, as to where I compared the strength of an APBT to that of a racing Thoroughbred? However, there is a lot that I can compare between the two but that is not was/is not my intentions here. If you don't understand the post, well, I'm sorry.

[realonebulldog]

I dont know about ya'll but I think it's about time this topic was deleted...It's full of tree hugers trying to bitch about something they know nothing about. Anything can be dangerous if not done correctly, but to say that it's dangerous no matter what...that's just ignorant. What's the differents in a weighted collar and a large chain?-nothing- And a spring pole (IMO) is one of the most dangerous training methods out there BUT if you are experienced with it then there is a less of a chance that you'll injur your animal. It's all in the handler, if an idiot puts a weighted collar on his dog 24/7 because he wants a "bad ass" bulldog, then yeah it's harmful. But if you use one while you exercise your dog then whats the problem? I personally stick to walking, running, and good old fashioned fethch and I'm very impressed with the results. I let Boudreaux pull my nephew and other things around from time to time but he's just turned a year old and I plan to make a great weight puller outta him, therefore I'm trying to start off easy and build him up.

It's just driving me crazy seeing some of you bitch about something you know nothing about...And for the kid who made the remark about listing my dog's sizes on my site, GROW UP. Hmmm...you said you are very impressed with the results. If you would have 2 absolutely alike looking dogs(so to say twins) and you would train one with weights and the other not.....well then you could judge and suddenly you would not be impressed at all anymore. Dogs are not Bodybuilder if you see dogmuscles you see 95-98 % genetic.

[toddrock]

Although I know the answer to your question its best you find out on your own through your own experiences since you feel like you a true afficianado of performance bulldogs lol.


Well lets hear the awswer from a self proclaimed "expert" like you! You must be an expert the way you take every opportunity to call anyone an amateur who disagrees with the all knowing Saiyagin, LOL. So lets hear it expert what is the benefit of placing weights where they were never ment to naturally nor physiologically be? Come on smart guy.....help out all us amateurs on this board, LOL hahaha. Oh and by the way Fedor kicked Cro Cop ass.

[STPFAN]

What do you actually think you are going to achieve by adding extra weight through a collar or harness?
I could use my working harness to build strength in the off season, make sure my dogs stick to those hogs not bounce off. much like athletes use a parashoot for resistance to strength train.
What purpose does it serve?
strength training.
It would be somewhat understandable if the dog is competing at a very high level and every small detail matters.
so by that statement it is safe to assume that this whole thread is directed to those who own petbulls... shew! I thought you were refering to those that own game-dogs.
However, for the vast majority of the dogs, it is absolutely unnecessary.
here lies the problem. you dont know much yourself and yet, your preachin' to others about what works and dont.. the vast majority of these dogs are out of shape prostitutes that are ridding the pine.
It puts an unneeded strain on the dog.
sure, if you jump off the couch in 90 degree heat with 50#s strapped to your dog but, to anyone with an understanding it can and will provide an extra edge.
Is it to make the dog bigger?
absolutely not.
There are much better ways to put on muscle
please share some of your secrets.
and even then, you won't be able to make much of a difference pertaining to muscle size.
completely untrue.
I have seen dogs that look the exact same prior to being put through extensive weight pull training.
again, "looks" are not what we are aiming for.
So, in my opinion, it serves no purpose as far as looks.
surely you have heard what they say about opinions...

It is common knowledge that the added weight to a dog's neck can cause problems.
your right, this is not the activity for the novice.
In my opinion, weighted collars and harnesses, whether if it is a chain or not, can be very damaging to the dog and is unnecessary 99.999% of the time.
once again, thanks for your opinion. wating for your ideas on strength traing. pls. tell us about your method of conditioning that is non- contact, non-stressful, non-abrasive.
Instead of slapping some weight to your dog, why won't you do some real work with it instead??
like??
I agree with Watcher.....they are unnecaessary for petbulls or dog owners just keeping there dog in shape!
Using a weighted collar or weighted vest is helpfull for improving physical performance and that is already proven with science and pro sports training!
When used properly in "training only" and not "all day everyday" combined with a strict diet and plenty of rest it will improve speed, power and agility!
Been using it for years to build strength and muscular endurance in my charge and very happy with the results!

YIS

[Saiyagin]

Well lets hear the awswer from a self proclaimed "expert" like you! You must be an expert the way you take every opportunity to call anyone an amateur who disagrees with the all knowing Saiyagin, LOL. So lets hear it expert what is the benefit of placing weights where they were never ment to naturally nor physiologically be? Come on smart guy.....help out all us amateurs on this board, LOL hahaha. Oh and by the way Fedor kicked Cro Cop ass.
Oh come on now you want me to do all your homework for you? LOL....everybody now days wants easy free answers without doing anywork themselves and EXPECTS the more experienced dog men to give em a free hand out when we the ones doing all the work and you benefit from our labor and hard work not too mention all the risks involved. I aint all knowing but I do know alot when it comes to APBT lol.....So go out and get your own feet wet and experience it for yourself and learn to stand on your own two feet instead of relying on free answers. I know Fedor kicked Cro cops ass as he is the better fighter Im not disputeing that I like Fedor and feel he is one of the best fighters in his weight class Im just saying is that he in not undefeatable.

[dunlap]

You make absolutely no sense...So if I have "geneticly" muscular dog and let him just eat and lay around, and I have a dog that I work with on building muscle tone...I wont be able to see the difference?

Think before you post.


Hmmm...you said you are very impressed with the results. If you would have 2 absolutely alike looking dogs(so to say twins) and you would train one with weights and the other not.....well then you could judge and suddenly you would not be impressed at all anymore. Dogs are not Bodybuilder if you see dogmuscles you see 95-98 % genetic.

[Brothermarree]

let me tell you something if you are doing everything you say you are doing to that dog work out wise i feel sorry for you that is to big of a dog to be doing that all i have to say is bad hips hope the dog wont need surgary when its older.I disagree 100% if the dog is a big working dog than that's it- a BIG WO(RKING Dog. If hes doing it hecan handle it.

[realonebulldog]

You make absolutely no sense...So if I have "geneticly" muscular dog and let him just eat and lay around, and I have a dog that I work with on building muscle tone...I wont be able to see the difference?

Think before you post. I think Iam one of that rare people who think always before they post and if you would think after reading my post you would understand my point....unless you have really no idea at all. Listen, a genetically muscular dog need just a walk every day to stay in awesome shape. The 2 dogs I talked about were both trained the good ole Bulldogway (Springpole ,Flirtpole, Roadwork, Swimming, and some good walks just for fun.) And one of this dogs get the weights we talk about(and the other not) and if you THEN after a couple of times would judge the dogs.....you wouldnt find the impressing difference. I believe some of the people who use this weights are only too decayed to move their dogs right.....

[BoogiemanBlood]

I think Iam one of that rare people who think always before they post and if you would think after reading my post you would understand my point....unless you have really no idea at all. Listen, a genetically muscular dog need just a walk every day to stay in awesome shape. The 2 dogs I talked about were both trained the good ole Bulldogway (Springpole ,Flirtpole, Roadwork, Swimming, and some good walks just for fun.) And one of this dogs get the weights we talk about(and the other not) and if you THEN after a couple of times would judge the dogs.....you wouldnt find the impressing difference. I believe some of the people who use this weights are only too decayed to move their dogs right.....well first of all that post doesn't look like it has all the thought you claim to put into your posts.

the APBT is always touted as the ultimate athlete. with that said althletic training in every sport has evolved greatly over the past 100 years. especially weight training. just because you don't keep up with the latest methods doesn't mean they don't work.

then you propose comparing dogs that have and have not weight trained. you say "THEN after a couple of times would judge the dogs". that's like saying after a "couple of times" of the flirt pole or any of the other methods of training you like you could see a difference. that is completely absurd.

you act as though you have performed one method of training vs. the other. have you? if not it's probablly not a good idea to jump to judgements until you have.

there have been good points made on both sides on this topic. the best point in favor would be "done correctly" you can't overdo the weight. you can't make it a permant piece of jewelry on you dog. you have to start out small and work up. done wrong you probablly could hurt your dog. done correctly it should be fine and increase stamina.

[STPFAN]

Was thinking the same thing Boogieman!

YIS

[Saiyagin]

I think Iam one of that rare people who think always before they post and if you would think after reading my post you would understand my point....unless you have really no idea at all. Listen, a genetically muscular dog need just a walk every day to stay in awesome shape. The 2 dogs I talked about were both trained the good ole Bulldogway (Springpole ,Flirtpole, Roadwork, Swimming, and some good walks just for fun.) And one of this dogs get the weights we talk about(and the other not) and if you THEN after a couple of times would judge the dogs.....you wouldnt find the impressing difference. I believe some of the people who use this weights are only too decayed to move their dogs right.....
Im not really sure what you are talking about but if you talking about comparing the way both dogs would look after conditioning one with collar and one without then yeah I would agree with you that you wouldnt find a impressing difference in how they look or compare to each other BUT if you talking about PERFORMANCE and how they both would perform after I would say there is a noticeable, significant amount of difference in there performance.

[dunlap]

I think Iam one of that rare people who think always before they post and if you would think after reading my post you would understand my point....unless you have really no idea at all. Listen, a genetically muscular dog need just a walk every day to stay in awesome shape. The 2 dogs I talked about were both trained the good ole Bulldogway (Springpole ,Flirtpole, Roadwork, Swimming, and some good walks just for fun.) And one of this dogs get the weights we talk about(and the other not) and if you THEN after a couple of times would judge the dogs.....you wouldnt find the impressing difference. I believe some of the people who use this weights are only too decayed to move their dogs right.....
I think that you've just confused your self is all...I know that you've sure as hell lost a few of us here.

[Brothermarree]

That is a game-bred dog. Yes they do come in tri-color. How are you going to tell someone how their own dog is bred by looking at a pic. Their have been plenty of great game dogs that were that color.

I think that post kinda proves how ppl jump to personal oppinion as fact. Most assume blues don't work, most assume something is wrong w/ weight colars even if they haven't used them, and some assume Black and Tans are mixed like the merles- most aggree they are mixed.

[realonebulldog]

well first of all that post doesn't look like it has all the thought you claim to put into your posts.

the APBT is always touted as the ultimate athlete. with that said althletic training in every sport has evolved greatly over the past 100 years. especially weight training. just because you don't keep up with the latest methods doesn't mean they don't work.

then you propose comparing dogs that have and have not weight trained. you say "THEN after a couple of times would judge the dogs". that's like saying after a "couple of times" of the flirt pole or any of the other methods of training you like you could see a difference. that is completely absurd.

you act as though you have performed one method of training vs. the other. have you? if not it's probablly not a good idea to jump to judgements until you have.

there have been good points made on both sides on this topic. the best point in favor would be "done correctly" you can't overdo the weight. you can't make it a permant piece of jewelry on you dog. you have to start out small and work up. done wrong you probablly could hurt your dog. done correctly it should be fine and increase stamina. Bulldogs are natural born athletes and the only training they need is jumping,running and get a hold of something. Yes its true, I think they dont need the latest ,,methods,, to be better and maybe better then very good.....weights on the neck of a dog....lets try the same on his feeds...lol...ok every one has is own opinions and if you think weight-collars are a fine thing so be it. And last not least....please let me judge a little ....I know a little about the topic...Iam sure I know not as much as you but have mercy with me...

[realonebulldog]

I think that you've just confused your self is all...I know that you've sure as hell lost a few of us here. You know what? I have still my family and my 2 Bulldogs...I feel I will surwive....lol

[BoogiemanBlood]

Bulldogs are natural born athletes and the only training they need is jumping,running and get a hold of something. Yes its true, I think they dont need the latest ,,methods,, to be better and maybe better then very good.....weights on the neck of a dog....lets try the same on his feeds...lol...ok every one has is own opinions and if you think weight-collars are a fine thing so be it. And last not least....please let me judge a little ....I know a little about the topic...Iam sure I know not as much as you but have mercy with me...i'm trying to make sense of that but it's hard. LOL i've already said good points were made on both sides. i've stated what i believe to be true as you have. no need to do a repeat post and beat a dead horse.

[realonebulldog]

I saw so many beaten dead horses on this site...lol...one more or less who cares....BTW your dogs look fine^^

[Stillwater]

The main goal of a wt collar is to increase indurance. I've seen dogs conditioned without wt collars and with. I would never condition a dog for a hunt without a wt collar. To each his own, but its always worked for us. For the everyday ordinary dog, thats not in top physical condition, well it don't need to be hunting anyway, so I would agree for those dogs its not really good.

When I start a 6 week conditioning program on a dog. The 3.5 wt collar goes on and don't come off until 3 days from the show.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=227822

[KLwaterpolo]

and I thought I was talkin crap. Wait... I do :-P

[tommy3]

I feel like people have taken this thread way out of context and a lot of people have misunderstood what I was saying. Probably my fault. But, what I was trying to say is that I believe that weighted collars and harnesses can be used in a way that won't hurt the dogs and can actually be very beneficial. My point was that it isn't needed for the majority of dogs. It is unnecessary for a dog unless you are putting it through heavy competition such as world class weight pulling, or catching large game. Most people don't know what they are doing with it and they can end up hurting a dog that had no use for the extra weight in the first place. I just feel that it is absolutely unnecessary for most people to add the extra stress to their dog for the sake of pure exercise. What benefit would a lap dog get out of having 5 lbs on its neck? Absolutely none. So why the hell do people want to put their dog through it? That was my point.

If you have a dog that absolutely needs that extra edge to compete against the other dogs and you know exactly what you are doing, I think that it can be a great tool.

If your dogs are not going into world class competitions, they don't need the extra stress. Take the extra time and do some other forms of exercise. That extra weight you put on your dog will not benefit you or the dog. So what is the point??

[14rock]

Working one we've been considering a weighted harness of some sort, simply for the fact, one, even two men (myself and my partner) can not get to so much as opening breaking a sweat after 10 miles off the chain. A dog needs to be pushed to its limits in training if you expect the same in the woods. Chances are, this particular dog will have enough wind for anything he will catch, but you need to prepare for the worst, no matter how confident you are. Its a bit late to start this keep with weights, however the next time he is shaped, I do believe we will experiment. I've never used them on one of my own, this dog is not mine, at the present. If he impresses us, and I have the room, he may be coming to our yard for the future, at which point I can step outside the box a bit. With someone elses dog, I'm not comfortable doing much diffrent then they have used with success. Doesnt leave much room for tweaking, outside nutrition, which is our main focus at this point, and the methods of which we choose to work him. If he was a housedog, or a dog which we could get tired after hours of sprints and jogging by a bicycle, I dont know if it would do much good, and probably more harm then good in all probabilitiy.