What age did your pitt turn. [Archive]

dog-man

11-12-2006, 12:51 PM

I heard that different lines turn at different times, some sooner than others, I have a supposedly game bred apbt, he is 1yr and 5 months old, well yesterday i took him out for a walk around the neighboorhood, and my bro was walking his dogs aswell, a chow mix and lil basenji x min pincher dog (lil mean sob), the little dog is always aggressive towards other dogs, but it knows who to mess with and not , the chow is about 9yrs old, and he can stand his own ,(all that hair around his neck, saved his butt more than once), i have known him since puppy, and seen him get in a couple scraps with other dogs , well as i was saying me and achilles were walking around the neigboorhood, and saw my bro with his dogs, achilles was acting like a crazy person to catch up with em, once we did, he got face to face with the chow and he seemed like he wanted to play , his tail wagging, no growling,they even smelled each others @ , now i know when pitbulls scrap its fun for them and enjoy it, but my dogs was happy in a way that he want to play with my bros dogs, I hope he never turns lol...................

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=166651

Wayne

11-12-2006, 12:57 PM

Most of the time a game dog will turn on between 10 to 18 months.Some have been known to turn on earlier or as late as 5yrs.Just be responsible and keep him on a lesh.

diggit

11-12-2006, 02:46 PM

magnum my 55lb chocolate/whilte boy was showing signs at 8 weeks. he got loose at 8mo and got into it and gave an ass whooping:( hes been a phyco since forever.

NCPatchwork

11-12-2006, 03:03 PM

As said above, it depends. My dog got attacked at 10 months, now he just kinda hates any male dogs that he hasn't already met. He's fine with my Rotti and other female pit, but they are never together alone.

Suki

11-12-2006, 05:17 PM

7 months here. never been the same since...:eek: !!!!!;)

Pitoogle

11-12-2006, 06:20 PM

lol, generally mine turn at a year. Ive seen a ton earlier though! Alot earlier!

tricen

11-12-2006, 06:28 PM

my boys 8 months, and he shows little signs from time to time..but hes a nigerino so i aint really expecting anything till the 2 or 3 year mark...maybe longer

mikelia

11-12-2006, 06:49 PM

My girl is two and just started to 'turn', mind you she was never perfect with other dogs, but when I got her she was fine with the majority of dogs, and when she was attacked, she would be fine with the other dog once they were separated. Now she is wanting to fight more and more. Oh well, comes with the territory :P

kane85

11-12-2006, 08:39 PM

my turned when he was about 9 monthes when i took him to the park this guy took like 6 huskeys with him to the park and half were about my dogs age and the other were older long story short my dog got ganged up on ever since he dosent like other dogs. there was this on time also when he was one in a half i was at my friends house and she lived in some town homes the main door was open except the sreen door was shut so this lady was walking her huskey and her dumb ass was standing like 5 feet from the door calling say how cute i didnt think any thing of it next thing i know he gose flying out the screen door after her dog so there i go running after him luckly i had my brakeing stick with me and saperated them apart so long story short she wasent mad and saide it was her fult for standing there with her dog and calling him.

purplepig

11-12-2006, 08:57 PM

my boys 8 months, and he shows little signs from time to time..but hes a nigerino so i aint really expecting anything till the 2 or 3 year mark...maybe longer
I got a half Nigerino that turned on at about 3 months! Absolutely loves to bite other dogs!! I dont think certain lines turn on at different times, I believe it is individual.

tricen

11-12-2006, 09:12 PM

I got a half Nigerino that turned on at about 3 months! Absolutely loves to bite other dogs!! I dont think certain lines turn on at different times, I believe it is individual.
i wish you were right but certain lines are very predictible, and nigerinos are known for being late bloomers (mind you from what i have heard)...but you are right about every dog being different, right now my boy just has little bits and spurts of signs but he can be easily discracted...

kensloft

11-12-2006, 10:42 PM

My boy is ten. I'm not familiar with the word or term 'turned' but I think that it means that they become fighters? If I am wrong then read no further. My dog was raised in Kensington Market in Toronto, Ontario. He was always a happy dog (is) and loved to meet other dogs of any shape or size. He would rather play than fight.

There were dogs that were plain angry and always wanting to fight. One, in particular, was Tonka a pit cross with some Australian breed. It was evil. It would attack anything from puppies to humans (recorded at least six attacks on humans). The guy always got away and Tonka was a scourge. Whenever it saw my dog it would bark, growl and do all the things that it could to get my dog's attention in order to intimidate him.

One night my friend and I were walking our dogs and as we approached the park decided to let them off the leash to romp. No sooner had they gotten off their leashes and headed through the park, I heard a voice on the other side of the park say "Oh shit!" It was the voice of Tonka's owner. Tonka was loose too. Well the sh.. hit the fan and by the time I got there I happened upon a scene of my dog flying at Tonka, body checking him and moving off for another run at Tonka. Tonka in the meantime was scrambling to hide behind his master. On one of my dog's charges (no growling, barking or anything of that nature) I could have sworn that I saw him clothesline Tonka. When he turned to look at me I know he was smiling. He was playing with this stupid dog that threatened him so often.

One more shot at a body check brought him close to me and I was able to grab his choke chain. End of argument. Meanwhile, until he was leashed, Tonka was Mr. Hiding behind the master. When the leash went on he became Mr. Tough guy as he was led away. The next time wasn't as happy for Tonka because he discovered that all the barking and growling in the world wouldn't keep my dog from chasing him down. Being a dog friendly neighbourhood meant that people were quick to intervene.

I don't know that I can apply the term 'turned' to my dog because he always would rather play but there are dogs that want to fight. Were my dog not named I would have called him 'Lightning'. He loves to meet other dogs but wants to avoid fighting. If there is a sign that another dog is becoming aggressive he is quick to react. He is almost always on a leash in public so there is some controlling influence on the outcome of these meetings by myself. He doesn't back down. His speed and agility puts the other dog, quickly, at a disadvantage.

Like I say to many people who look fearfully at my dog, "If you don't kick him... he won't bite you."

One word that my dog knows and that is "NO". I've kept after him and I think that it pays off when approaching other dogs. He's careful and doesn't try to be a biting machine until he's menaced. Then it is up to me to pull him away before the teeth and fur fly. Just my experience. No two dogs are alike just like no two humans are alike.

diggit

11-12-2006, 11:01 PM

tomoe

11-12-2006, 11:14 PM

diggit

11-12-2006, 11:31 PM

i think it gets a bit gradual.....

for your female, one day i bet she will try her luck, usually around 2 they wanna try there luck and try to be dominate.
most females get really bad mood swings... i had my 55lb female go after my 80lb female but the bigger one just took one swipe and that was that, she didnt wanna deal with the smaller younger one. the smaller on had a large deep cut on her foot pad.... and the big female had no damage.
it was like a split second cuz i was right there in seconds.....

kensloft

11-13-2006, 01:13 AM

turned as in..... dog aggresive, its very very common in pitbulls that they just DONT get along with other dogs. its genetics.....

main thing is never underestimate your dog..... you may think its too young, friendly ect. but when you turn your back for a sec. it could all change.I learned that if you take your focus off the dog then he becomes the boss. That's why he is on a short leash when I am sitting or talking to people. The breed is renowned in some animal books for being able to judge character in people. If he is left to himself he will lunge at people. He's probably right but unless you catch the guy with his hand in the cookie jar then he's innocent and your dog is vicious. Underestimating my dog I don't do. I want him to live a long and happy life. That means better safe than sorry. If he was left to his own devices... ? He gets along with other dogs? I think that is because he doesn't worry about kickin' butt. He knows that if push comes to shove then he'll be doing the pushing or shoving. Thanks diggit.

diggit

11-13-2006, 01:17 AM

good to know! :-)

good luck with your dog(s)!

blackbeard

11-13-2006, 08:34 AM

purplepig

11-13-2006, 09:43 AM

For those with dogs that turned on, was it a slow, gradual process? I have a bitch that's almost 2 that's getting hot with some dogs and it's always off an on.

Is it normal for even a turned on dog to shy away from a dominant, much larger dog, who's dominated it since puppy hood? Example, my bitch is 25 lbs, very dog aggressive with big dogs but is still very much afraid of my buddies 80 lb mayday bitch. The mayday bitch has always been 'the boss' so to speak and it's about 4 years old now. The mayday bitch is very, very da with all dogs. My little bitch will snarl and growl if it gets to close, but she avoids it all costs. Will she always be like this? Thanks.
Most of mine have been like a light switch, instant change. I had one that would play, and loved to with other dogs, and then one day a mutt tried to get serious with her and she was on her back and the dog bit her pretty good, she looked suprised, slapped the dog off of her and went into her, and from that day on, she would go after any dog around.

A dog that backs down from a larger dog is considered a curr around here. Kinda like a bully who will pick on those within reason but someone bigger and badder comes along, and they back down. I got a 6 mo old over here that thinks he can whip everything, and tries to. I have to really watch him, and he turned a@ 3 months old, and has been constant every since.

NCPatchwork

11-13-2006, 11:57 AM

Oh, and my female has yet to turn at all. She plays and just goes nuts with my male...so Idk

Miss Conduct

11-13-2006, 12:04 PM

magnum my 55lb chocolate/whilte boy was showing signs at 7 weeks. he got loose at 8mo and took out one of my 80lb ers' :( hes been a phyco since forever.

An 8 MONTH old pup taking out an 80 pounder????

Miss Conduct

11-13-2006, 12:14 PM

I think w/alot of Carver dogs (alteast ones ive seen) tend to turn on a little later in life. Have one that decided at around 8 months he didnt like other dogs, others that loved everything til about 2 then hated everything but pups, all the way out to my ofrn male that didnt like other dogs from around 2 (but would tolerate some) but then around 5 decided everything must die lol.

I think some lines tend to be certain ways, but not always. Just because its a Carver dog doesnt mean hes gonna wait 4 years to turn on, and just because its a Red Boy dog doesnt mean its gonna be dumb lol ;)

mydawgs

11-13-2006, 12:48 PM

My Am Staff was like a light switch...18 months, she will fly into anything with fur..and likes it.

My male (Mountain Man/St Bennidicts cross) I don't think has ever "turned on". He is 11 years old and has been attacked by several dogs, including 120 lb Akita (Buddy ranges from 43 - 45 lbs). At the time of this encounter he was coming off of a keep and was around 39 lbs. He wrestled with this dog for awhile and then it was like he said...OK I'm bored with you and TORE him up. After the scuffle he was as calm as he was before...he didn't start it but he sure finished it.

For some reason it takes definitive action to get him to "turn on", but then he is a tazmanian devil..so I guess it is just as well. Anyone else have a dog like this?

He is the perfect Pet Bull, confident, tolerant and well mannered...I love my BOY!!!!!

Chef-Kergin

11-13-2006, 02:34 PM

We have a little red brindle/red nose pup that's a little over 2 months old. Since we've had her, she has done nothing but play and romp with our 5 yr old JRT. Surprisngly, he hasn't nipped her yet. She wags her tail, shakes her ass, and plays with him all hours of day and night like there's no tomorrow. The eat together, drink out of the same water bowl, and she cries if she can't sleep with him because he's jumped up on the couch when he naps.

Last week while we introduced her to my uncles two APBts (when she turned 8 wks old), she was completely fine with Taz, his 3 yr old male, but she went off the hook when she met his 2 yr old female Lexi inside the house. I haven't ever seen a puppy so crazed. She latched onto the right side of her face and wouldn't let go, shaking all the way. Well, she did loose her grip as soon as Lexi shook her off of her cheek. I tried to avvert her attention, to no avail. So we took them outside and put her in the left half of the yard (He has a 6 foot chain link fence separating the two halves of his 2 acre lot) with Taz, and she was still fine. But as soon as she saw Lexi on the other side of the fence, it was on like donkey kong. Don't know what set her off about her, but I'll just have to keep a closer watch on her when she's out on her leash since we just started walking her about the same time.

Sid Finster

11-13-2006, 02:36 PM

Redhead is pushing 18 months, loves everyone so far. His mother is five or six now, same way, unless you are a GSD. One attacked her when she was small and she has apparently not fogotten this.

I hope Redhead stays this way, but I don't give him the opportunity to screw up, either.

Some say that there are advantages to a DA dog. The dog is what it is, the responsible owner can predict the dog's behavior it and keep it away from other dogs. No worry about "OMG little Fluffi never did anything like that before!" when it eats some off-leash Bichon Frise.

On the other hand, could a similar argument be made for a HA dog? After all, HA dogs are predictable as well.

TEXAS PIT DOGS

11-13-2006, 02:57 PM

earliest for me was 4 months,and the latest for me was right around 3 years old.

pitbull0555

11-13-2006, 03:11 PM

So wait, if a dog is shy and scared of certain dogs before it turns on at say 2 or 3, it's a cur? What if it hasn't had a chance to mature yet? What if after it turns on, it's no longer afraid of that dog?

It's a little early to call a dog cur isn't it?

14rock

11-13-2006, 03:14 PM

Some say that there are advantages to a DA dog. The dog is what it is, the responsible owner can predict the dog's behavior it and keep it away from other dogs. No worry about "OMG little Fluffi never did anything like that before!" when it eats some off-leash Bichon Frise.

On the other hand, could a similar argument be made for a HA dog? After all, HA dogs are predictable as well.I was trying to stay out of this thread, it is horrible from a P.R. stand-point, and you know the wrong people are reading this as "proof", and will think what they may. However, of course, they'd leave out the fact we're talking about DOG aggression, and not human aggression,and that it is expected in this breed for the majority of specimins to be DA, and not a suprise in the least. No ticking time bombs here!

I like that you thought a bit deeper about the question, and posed an intelligent response and question, which intrests myself, and no doubt other members.

I can see what your saying about knowing your dog will be DA has its benefits, and I agree. If everyone who bought or acquired this breed knew the history behind them, and standards set forth for breeding, there would be no "suprises", and no "accidents".

As for human-aggression, that is also true. However, its not a common trait in APBT's, and when it is found, its almost always traced back to other factors around the dogs upbringing, and not its breeding, or breed. I generally dont discuss HA dogs, because a truely HA is fairly rare in this breed, and occurs in much lower numbers because of the breeding standards set-forth by old-time dogmen, as well as culling. Of course, alot of those things are going out the window with the wrong people buying these dogs for the wrong reasons, and completely changing a sound foundation to make their penis feel bigger with a dog that snarls at people and they can tell their homeboys "its a pitt!".

Back to the topic though, I guess you COULD say the same thing about HA dogs. BUT Human-aggression puts people at risk of being injured, dog-aggression doesnt, except in the case of handler error. When others are at risk of injury, is a scenario that is not tolerated by me. What good is a human-aggressive dog? A dog you can't spend time with, establish the centuries old man/canine relationship bond with. A canine which will not tolerate humans, puts it more closely to the wolf, than a domesticated animal to me. I dont agree with keeping wolves, or wild animals in captivity. Of course, a canine has no fear of humans, and is even more of a threat to citizens then a roaming wolf which will just assume run away. For this reason, a human-aggressive canine is not suitable to be kept, and gets shot, round here.

Pitbull0555-a dog must be mentally mature before you can label it a "cur". However, being aggressive, and being game are two totally diffrent things, and because a mature bulldog wants to fight another dog, doesnt make it game.

mydawgs

11-13-2006, 04:14 PM

I was trying to stay out of this thread, it is horrible from a P.R. stand-point, and you know the wrong people are reading this as "proof", and will think what they may. However, of course, they'd leave out the fact we're talking about DOG aggression, and not human aggression,and that it is expected in this breed for the majority of specimins to be DA, and not a suprise in the least. No ticking time bombs here!

I like that you thought a bit deeper about the question, and posed an intelligent response and question, which intrests myself, and no doubt other members.

I can see what your saying about knowing your dog will be DA has its benefits, and I agree. If everyone who bought or acquired this breed knew the history behind them, and standards set forth for breeding, there would be no "suprises", and no "accidents".

As for human-aggression, that is also true. However, its not a common trait in APBT's, and when it is found, its almost always traced back to other factors around the dogs upbringing, and not its breeding, or breed. I generally dont discuss HA dogs, because a truely HA is fairly rare in this breed, and occurs in much lower numbers because of the breeding standards set-forth by old-time dogmen, as well as culling. Of course, alot of those things are going out the window with the wrong people buying these dogs for the wrong reasons, and completely changing a sound foundation to make their penis feel bigger with a dog that snarls at people and they can tell their homeboys "its a pitt!".

Back to the topic though, I guess you COULD say the same thing about HA dogs. BUT Human-aggression puts people at risk of being injured, dog-aggression doesnt, except in the case of handler error. When others are at risk of injury, is a scenario that is not tolerated by me. What good is a human-aggressive dog? A dog you can't spend time with, establish the centuries old man/canine relationship bond with. A canine which will not tolerate humans, puts it more closely to the wolf, than a domesticated animal to me. I dont agree with keeping wolves, or wild animals in captivity. Of course, a canine has no fear of humans, and is even more of a threat to citizens then a roaming wolf which will just assume run away. For this reason, a human-aggressive canine is not suitable to be kept, and gets shot, round here.

Pitbull0555-a dog must be mentally mature before you can label it a "cur". However, being aggressive, and being game are two totally diffrent things, and because a mature bulldog wants to fight another dog, doesnt make it game.
14 -

As animal aggression is one trait of the Pit Bull, so is human passiveness. Both traits are exploited for the purpose of working the dog. What good is a chase dog if it won't chase the prey....like a very large hog.

There are dogs that have HA bred into them for the purpose of their work, like K9s. The ability of these dogs to be trained and controlled is also a trait for them. I would agree that HA puts folks at risk, but in the case of a K9 it is supposed to. You are not referring to these kinds of dogs are you?

Just wondering

pitbull0555

11-13-2006, 05:07 PM

purplepig

11-13-2006, 05:27 PM

Cool, that's what I thought. So purple pig saying that a dog who backs down from a larger dog is a cur is a bit early since it sounds like the dog is still a pup? Thanks for all the info, informative thread.You missed what I was saying. I said that if a dog is aggressive towards one his size, but backs down from another that is larger, that is definately signs that the dog is not game. That is what I said. Think of it like a bully in highschool. They picked on those they thought they could whip, but someone badder comes along, or one that'll give em a fight, and they back down, and tuck tail. A game dog doesnt care what size the dog is, nor does it care if it is losing, it always thinks it is bigger, badder and winning.

What I responded to was a post that said the dog acts aggressive to another dog it's size, and cowers to a larger dog. That, IMO, has nothing to do with DA, but to the heart of the dog. If the dog had not turned, it would play with the dogs it's size, and not try to fight them. Understand? I am not trying to offend anyone, it it was one of my dogs, and I have had many like this, that responded in this manner, I would call it the same; and they were culled.

IF IT COWERS, IT IS CURR! That DOES NOT mean it will not make a fine pet!! I am sure your dog is a fine dog,

Once again, I was responding to what was posted above my other post, just because a dog hasnt turned on at 8 years of age doesnt make it curr, it is cold! That does not mean it wont turn hot, but a dog that cowers at size and doesnt at one it's own or smaller is CURR! IMO

tomoe

11-13-2006, 05:33 PM

Purple pig was responding to my post and I'm definitely not offended! I wasn't very clear in my post either, so I understand the confusion. My bitch doesn't back down from larger dogs, hell it goes nuts after larger dogs that give it eye contact or challenges it. Plays fine with some submissive dogs as well. It's just this one dog, this one mayday bitch that she grew up with.

In addition, she's still really young and gets more fiery every week it seems. I think she has time to turn out since she's well under age. Sorry to hijack the thread, please let me know if you want me to move this to private convo. Thanks.

Sid Finster

11-15-2006, 03:00 PM

Thank you for the compliments.

I wasn't just thinking of APBTs so much as dog aggression and human aggression in general. If a DA dog is more predictable, and therefore safer, according to the same logic, why isn't a HA dog predictable and therefore "safe"?

Obviously with the rash of dog attacks lately (and not just APBTs), there have been a lot of "surprises" and "accidents". Or have there? Maybe if people were a little more clueful and read the warning signs, a lot of attacks (dog or human) could be prevented.

Just thinking out loud, as usual.

I like that you thought a bit deeper about the question, and posed an intelligent response and question, which intrests myself, and no doubt other members.

I can see what your saying about knowing your dog will be DA has its benefits, and I agree. If everyone who bought or acquired this breed knew the history behind them, and standards set forth for breeding, there would be no "suprises", and no "accidents".

As for human-aggression, that is also true. However, its not a common trait in APBT's, and when it is found, its almost always traced back to other factors around the dogs upbringing, and not its breeding, or breed. I generally dont discuss HA dogs, because a truely HA is fairly rare in this breed, and occurs in much lower numbers because of the breeding standards set-forth by old-time dogmen, as well as culling. Of course, alot of those things are going out the window with the wrong people buying these dogs for the wrong reasons, and completely changing a sound foundation to make their penis feel bigger with a dog that snarls at people and they can tell their homeboys "its a pitt!".

Back to the topic though, I guess you COULD say the same thing about HA dogs. BUT Human-aggression puts people at risk of being injured, dog-aggression doesnt, except in the case of handler error. When others are at risk of injury, is a scenario that is not tolerated by me. What good is a human-aggressive dog? A dog you can't spend time with, establish the centuries old man/canine relationship bond with. A canine which will not tolerate humans, puts it more closely to the wolf, than a domesticated animal to me. I dont agree with keeping wolves, or wild animals in captivity. Of course, a canine has no fear of humans, and is even more of a threat to citizens then a roaming wolf which will just assume run away. For this reason, a human-aggressive canine is not suitable to be kept, and gets shot, round here.

diggit

11-15-2006, 03:50 PM

An 8 MONTH old pup taking out an 80 pounder????yes i had an person that was not too exsperianced watching the dogs while i went to go get dog food... i come back and i was not impressed with what i saw i got there just in the nic of time if i didnt he wouldnt be around today. the guy had left for a "minute" to go chat with his buddy :mad:. after a huge vet bill no more big dogs for me.!!

i didnt exspect the 8 month old to do such a thing but thats why i warn people because i dont want it happening to other people.... and from now one the dogs are in kennels so they cant excape and i wont underestimate even with the pups.

you live you learn.

cheekymunkee

11-15-2006, 05:22 PM

Most of mine have been like a light switch, instant change. I had one that would play, and loved to with other dogs, and then one day a mutt tried to get serious with her and she was on her back and the dog bit her pretty good, she looked suprised, slapped the dog off of her and went into her, and from that day on, she would go after any dog around.

A dog that backs down from a larger dog is considered a curr around here. Kinda like a bully who will pick on those within reason but someone bigger and badder comes along, and they back down. I got a 6 mo old over here that thinks he can whip everything, and tries to. I have to really watch him, and he turned a@ 3 months old, and has been constant every since.
Mine too, at the drop of a hat, one day cold the next hot. The ages have varied as has the level of DA. Munkee is my most DA dog & he turned at about 3. The others have had different levels of DA & if I rememember became so at around 2-3.

Attila

11-15-2006, 11:23 PM

Turned on. Yes well It can be from birth it seems with NightShade or never as in some cases, NightShade would bite her siblings while nursing and ment that shit. She has not changed but gotten more so. I can't even get a male near her to breed her. Baby at 15months, Gretchen a 11 months (Gretchen and Nightshade are litter mates), SunShine two years, Count well he digs females and puppies it seams but he doesn't dig other males so I am not sure when that happened. The rest differnt times. Never had one that didn't before two or there abouts. It is best not to worry about it as it will come in due time. And if it doesn't you have a good pet.

DryCreek

11-16-2006, 06:09 AM

Youngest....had to help a friend after his 2 bellymate pups, male and female, decided to try to kill each other over a bowl of dog food at 12 weeks. Those puppy teeth are nasty. Lonzo/Clouse

Oldest....4.5 years. Macho Buck/Red Boy

2gk

11-16-2006, 06:48 AM

Well this happened to a freinfd of mine he has three pits and he always thinks they can play with his freinds pits because they are related, I garaunteed him eventually something would happen he didn't wanna listena month later he calls me his male took a very bad beating from his freinds male. Of course I tell him I told you so. Anyway a couple weeks later I go over there and all his dogs are loose no chain no fence (he lives on over 200 acres. I tell him eventually the dogs gonna wonder further and further away and you are gonna have a serious problem. He didn't listen two nights ago I get a call his female got into it really bad with her mother. Long story short I don't think its wise to expect your dog to never turn and be prepared when it does.

missybee16

11-16-2006, 01:16 PM

Mine started at 4mos. Broke her of it quick. She's trained well now.

Miss Conduct

11-16-2006, 02:00 PM

Mine started at 4mos. Broke her of it quick. She's trained well now.I wouldnt stand by that, better safe than sorry. IMO

Brothermarree

11-16-2006, 02:05 PM

4 me about 7 months.

db_798

11-16-2006, 02:17 PM

I have an 11 month old boudreux/bullyson and he still very friendly to other dogs. however cats, squirrels and birds beware.

mdknaly

11-16-2006, 02:30 PM

Colby's Pincher, arguebly the best dog ever didn't tun on until three years of age.

Sid Finster

11-18-2006, 12:54 PM

OK, I take Redhead out on a walk, we're almost home, fat dumb and happy, minding our own business.

A door leading from the sidewalk into an apartment hallway opens, and this Fila (at least I think it was was a Fila) jumps out of the door and just attacks Redhead. No posturing, no warning, no playing.

I still have the leash, and I am swinging Redhead about, trying to keep the Fila from biting him. Probably not the smartest move, but most people don't think out a logical plan of action when they are under ambush, and this was an ambush. Redhead is trying his damnedest to fight back, and finally a little light goes off in my head "Why not fight back and kick this stupid dog?"

As I said, I hadn't exactly rehearsed this situation. Care to comment, Attila?

So I am getting ready to drop my cowboy boot into this dog when the owner finally grabs him. She's very worried that Redhead bit her defenseless little Fila and even tells the Fila that he is a bad dog, using a very concerned tone of voice.

No visible injuries on Redhead. I pull him to heel, and he is now whining to get a piece of Fila. The whole thing maybe took ten seconds.

We walk home, I am shaking, Redhead is enjoying the adrenaline. As we enter my courtyard, Redhead sees a smaller dog, unleashed, and badly wants to go after it.

I don't know whether Redhead will "turn on" as a result of this fiasco, but I sure as hell don't want him to. Is there anything I can do to prevent this?

n.b.Other dogs have been aggressive to Redhead in the past, but none have made such a serious attempt at a fight.

dog-man

11-18-2006, 01:19 PM

Yesterday I went on one of my every other day jogs along the mountain trails with Achilles, we were on a steady pace , about a mile into the , all of a sudden I see this woman and her 12yr or so son, with 3 dogs total, all of them were on leashes , the kid had one dog and the mother had the two other dogs (mutts), on this trail there is curves/corners and such, as i was getting closer to them (we were going towards each other), the lady looses control of both her dogs and they get loose, i came to a complete stop, when i saw the dogs coming towards Achilles, again , surprisingly enough, Achilles wanted to play with em dogs lol, no growling, barking nothing, they met like for max 20 sec, lady came and put them on their leash, and i was back on the trail, guess he will be a late bloomer, he comes from honeybunch and eli lines, his dad is ch doc holiday, I dont mind he will be a late bloomer, something less to worry about lol.

I think it really depends on the dog when its going to turn or not, if you all dont know I also have a 6yr old female neo mastiff, doubles his size, and can throw a mean bite, since i had Achiles they got it on a couple of times, for food, toys and such, so I don’t believe that once your dogs scraps it will leave the dog with killer instincts, they get along fine, even sleep together.

<o:p> </o:p>

Sid Finster

11-18-2006, 01:44 PM

I sure hope I am overreacting. I suppose I am concerned because Redhead's mother is not aggressive to other dogs, except German Shepherd-type dogs. This presumably stems from the fact that a GSD attacked her when she was small.

That and I don't need Redhead thinking "Golly gee, this fighting thing was kind of fun! I gotta try that again!" I know that dogs don't think in abstractions like that, but they do learn from experiences, and I don't think this experience was nearly as unpleasant for Redhead as it was for me.

I took another good look at Redhead a minute ago to make sure he wasn't bitten. It's hard to tell as he is absolutely pain-proof.

Seems that Redhead did a good job of escaping the ambush.

Twitty

11-19-2006, 09:15 AM

I have littermate brothers and they were the best looking pups!!! until about 11 oclock one evening heard all my dogs barking 45 min pas and they were still barking so i go see what it was one had gotten off (everybody who has more than 5 dogs has had a yard accident) by the time i got there they were in full swing of things @ the tender age of 9 mts of age. every sence then they have been monitored closely! check you set ups every day. Especially if its raining!!!! After you pup deciedes that he or she wants to be a man/woman you now own a different dog!

boa1277

11-19-2006, 12:55 PM

My boy Willie loves to play, he will play with any dog right up until it growls, as soon as the other dog growls, he get this real serious look on his face you know the perked up ears, wrinkles on the forehead, tail up and no longer wagging, if the other dog makes a move forward it is on like donkey kong, I have a hell of time just pulling him away on his leash. If the other dog continues to romp around Willies figures it out pretty quick and starts playing again. I am amazed at how well he is able to read the situation.

Sid Finster

11-19-2006, 04:50 PM

The next few times we went for a walk, Redhead wanted to go back to the spot where the fight happened. Needless to say, I did not let him.

I am glad that it was me holding the leash, as I am a lot stronger than Redhead. If a girlfriend had been walking him, blood would have been spilled.

LuvinBullies

11-19-2006, 06:13 PM

I don't know whether Redhead will "turn on" as a result of this fiasco, but I sure as hell don't want him to. Is there anything I can do to prevent this?
Personally, I feel the nature vs. nurture aspect with APBTs would be a goldmine for a geneticist and a true blue APBT behaviorist/trainer to collaborate on and thoroughly document. I have noticed a lot of dog behaviorists seem to have a "Dog Behavior 101" broad spectrum of knowledge on dog behavior, but it lacks in-depth knowledge about APBTs. I tend to discredit claims made about "training DA out of APBTs", etc.

But I wonder if APBT genetics and behavior can be studied more thoroughly to provide conclusive information and accurate training guidelines for APBT owners who wish to identify and work with the genetic tendency for APBTs to "turn on" in an effort to control it's hair-trigger intensity--as long as such information did not provide inexperienced owners with false securities and it emphasized that no training provides 100% brainwashing of genetics, I think it would be interesting to see what was suggested.

I also feel each individual APBT has a different level of DA saturation in its genes. Most APBTs are highly or completely saturated with DA in their genetic makeup, while others don't have as much . Obviously anti-DA training would have a higher success rate with APBTs whose genes were lightly saturated with DA. Unfortunately, there is no way to test for it other than by observation, and anyone who has a gamebred APBT should prepare for a total genetic saturation of DA in their dog, and as responsible owners they should be skeptical of anyone who claims they can completely prevent an APBT from "turning on".

DryCreek

11-20-2006, 08:32 PM

Personally, I feel the nature vs. nurture aspect with APBTs would be a goldmine for a geneticist and a true blue APBT behaviorist/trainer to collaborate on and thoroughly document. I have noticed a lot of dog behaviorists seem to have a "Dog Behavior 101" broad spectrum of knowledge on dog behavior, but it lacks in-depth knowledge about APBTs. I tend to discredit claims made about "training DA out of APBTs", etc.

But I wonder if APBT genetics and behavior can be studied more thoroughly to provide conclusive information and accurate training guidelines for APBT owners who wish to identify and work with the genetic tendency for APBTs to "turn on" in an effort to control it's hair-trigger intensity--as long as such information did not provide inexperienced owners with false securities and it emphasized that no training provides 100% brainwashing of genetics, I think it would be interesting to see what was suggested.

I also feel each individual APBT has a different level of DA saturation in its genes. Most APBTs are highly or completely saturated with DA in their genetic makeup, while others don't have as much . Obviously anti-DA training would have a higher success rate with APBTs whose genes were lightly saturated with DA. Unfortunately, there is no way to test for it other than by observation, and anyone who has a game bred APBT should prepare for a total genetic saturation of DA in their dog, and as responsible owners they should be skeptical of anyone who claims they can completely prevent an APBT from "turning on".
I agree, you can NOT train dog aggression out, but you CAN train human Alpha leader in. THAT is the key to a well behaved APBT. Very nice post LuvinBullies. It would be interesting to see the results of that type of study. My belief is that each animal is an individual. The genetic aspect lays the ground work, the base so to say. The nurture can enhance or downplay each genetic trait.

I find it very amusing the amount of energy put into trying to complicate the canine. It is an animal, and if you study their ways you will learn how best to deal with them. I train my pup just like their mother would. Super simple. direct and to the point.

Sid Finster

Once an APBT has shown aggression to another dog, you cannot expect it to not happen again. Now that Redhead has shown interest, if not excitement at the prospect of a battle, you must always be on guard, aware and prepared for it to happen again. Make sure you have vocal commands (sit, down, stay) to the tee, carry a parting stick, and be aware of loose dogs. Hope all goes well for you and Redhead.:)

simms

11-20-2006, 08:39 PM

I find it very amusing the amount of energy put into trying to complicate the canine. It is an animal, and if you study their ways you will learn how best to deal with them. I train my pup just like their mother would. Super simple. direct and to the point.

That's Awsome!!!

Say what you mean,mean what you say!

Hillbilly Pit

11-20-2006, 09:43 PM

I don't know if this is the same but I would like to shair it with yall. Last friday I went out to feed my dog early that morning about 10 tell 6. J.R. was barking and flinging his body at the end of hes chain. He gets a low choppy growl when something is close that he realy wants to get at. Mostly cats but as I steped closer I saw a coytoe running toword him. Me with food in hand and grate exsitement said "get'm boy" and J.R. standing on hes back legs wanting it. The coyote two foot away herd that and saw me turned and ran. I went up alittle more and saw another one standing at the eag of my yard. He looked like he didn't want no part of J.R. at that time but if it had started I think that the other one would have joined the party. He is 14m old, it might not be the same you think but it don't matter if it's coyote, dog, cat, or squarle if it walks alone its fair game to him it seems. http://www.game-dog.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Sid Finster

11-21-2006, 01:55 PM

Once an APBT has shown aggression to another dog, you cannot expect it to not happen again. Now that Redhead has shown interest, if not excitement at the prospect of a battle, you must always be on guard, aware and prepared for it to happen again. Make sure you have vocal commands (sit, down, stay) to the tee, carry a parting stick, and be aware of loose dogs. Hope all goes well for you and Redhead.:)
Redhead didn't show aggression exactly, in the sense that he did not start the fight. He was more than ready to defend himself from the Fila. I did not let Redhead mess with other dogs before and I am sure as hell not going to start now.

I commented earlier that Redhead's mother is not DA, except towards GSDs. In her case, that seems to be learned behavior, but Sasha, her owner keeps this firmly in check. I don't know Redhead's father personally so I cannot say. Regarding training, I make sure Redhead knows that I am alpha and that fighting is not tolerated. That said, I am not so naive as to think that DA can be trained out of a dog. Unless you are C. Milan. ;)

My main concern is to keep Redhead from finding out that fighting can be fun. At least any more than he already has.

Sid Finster

11-21-2006, 01:56 PM

And thanks for the help.

BoiBoi

11-21-2006, 02:55 PM

My mutt started around 9 months after he got into it with a ground hog. After that incident he seemed very eager to get at any animal, but he still plays well with my neighbors apbt, in part because he grew up with that dog and is submissive to him which is fine by me i just hope one day he doesn't decide that he wants to be the top dog cause he is a lot bigger, stronger and faster than my neighbors little house dog. Other than that he ignores the dogs that he sees regularly on our walks its just new dogs that he goes crazy for.

LuvinBullies

11-21-2006, 07:37 PM

That said, I am not so naive as to think that DA can be trained out of a dog. Unless you are C. Milan. ;)
Oh, yeah, right!:D Forgot about that "God among men" :rolleyes:. That's funny Sid...I didn't think you were naive BTW, just a lot of people are regarding the DA in APBTs- notably behaviorists of all people.

So watcha think about ol' Cesar...I think the guy keeps doggie narcotics in his pocket and slips those pups some mickeys before the camera crew arrives.

Sid Finster

11-23-2006, 08:41 AM

Oh, yeah, right!:D Forgot about that "God among men" :rolleyes:. That's funny Sid...I didn't think you were naive BTW, just a lot of people are regarding the DA in APBTs- notably behaviorists of all people.

So watcha think about ol' Cesar...I think the guy keeps doggie narcotics in his pocket and slips those pups some mickeys before the camera crew arrives.
Amazes me the number of people who think that if you are nice enough to a dog, it will forget that it is a predator and a pack animal.

Regarding Cesar The Great and Terrible: where I live you can't get his show, and I have only read part of one of his books, so most of my information on him is second-hand. Most of what he says was self-obvious - affection is no substitute for exercise and discipline. Dogs respect leaders, and there is no substitute for respect.

No shit.

I think Cesar's "energy" stuff is new-agey crap repackaged for dippy gringos, but a lot of people had no idea why their dog was a brat until they saw Cesar's way.

So I guess he serves a purpose.

ericschevy

03-25-2007, 12:14 AM

7 months here. never been the same since...:eek: !!!!!;)
Same here.....:eek:

vena

03-25-2007, 01:01 AM

well my boy is a about 4 and a 1/2 months now, but when i first got him at 3 months i put him with my brother in laws boy who is two weeks older. My brother in laws dog is a blue nose that is litterally twice the size of mine. well right away my boy got stiff and real tense and started a low growl and just lunged at him trying to bite him. It was funny cause my brother in laws dog just ran from him and then started barking when he got a good distance. at the time my dog was 9lbs 8 oz and my brother in laws was over 15 lbs. I dont know if you consider that turning right there. i can already see that he does not like male dogs. he gets along fine with my feamle dobe and female shitzu though.