What's your opinion?

[MR BIGGS]

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[miakoda]

Although we've agreed on quite a bit lately, we will have to disagree here. APBTs were bred as human companions & thrive on that human-dog relationship/bond. They weren't "designed" to be left alone to live out their lives in a solitary confinement of sorts.

Most yard dogs I've ever met, even the friendly ones, will protect "their" yards & homes from intruders without having to forgo socialization & training.

In fact, I would say that any dog w/out socialization & training may not just be a threat to an intruder, but to your own family as well.

I've got 3 dogs that protect my yard: Wrigley a Shar Pei/Cane Corso, Butch a Dogo Argentino, & Annabelle a Rottweiler. IMO, socialization & training are key not just to create a well rounded dog that you trust with your family, but to give the dog a desire to protect "his' family.

Don't do that to an APBT or "pit bull".

However, if you are looking among the bully breeds, I can direct you to someone heavily involved in American Bulldogs & Schutzhund & she can help you out.

Hope this helps. :)

[MR BIGGS]

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[Pitbull219]

Mia is absolutely right. Any unsocialized, untrained dog is really an accident waiting to happen. I knew a thug scumbag gang-banger back in the day that had a beautiful APBT. He would bring the dog with him just about everywhere, and the first thing he'd tell anyone around him was "don't pet my dog, don't even make eye contact, I don't want him to like anyone but me." Well, ya know what? That dog eventually got loose one time and mauled a little kid. Ya just can't do that to a dog, it's not fair to the dog, and it's not fair to your fellow man.......

[MR BIGGS]

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[Pitbull219]

Well, if you're just looking for a home protection dog, you could get a GSD, Bull Mastiff, American Bulldog, English Mastiff, Boxer, Doberman, Rottweiler, and on and on. Or, since I assume you like the looks and qualities of APBT's since you're on this board, you could get a bandog....check this site: http://www.chimerakennels.com/index.htm

****Edit**** This site may be of interest to you as well: http://www2.dogbreedinfo.com/search.htm

[yellaman420]

[QUOTE=Pitbull219]Well, if you're just looking for a home protection dog, you could get a GSD, Bull Mastiff, American Bulldog, English Mastiff, Boxer, Doberman, Rottweiler, and on and on. Or, since I assume you like the looks and qualities of APBT's since you're on this board, you could get a bandog....check this site: http://www.chimerakennels.com/index.htm

Those Swinford dogs are pretty intense for personal protection/guard dogs. They seem more inline with the old fashioned Nightdogs that were used to patrol gamekeepers estates back in England

[pennsooner]

Fila Brislario (sp), Anatolian Shepard, Causcaian Orkavick (sp). Bull Mastiff.

[BoiBoi]

Hey Biggs, A dog that is naturally protective should still be socialized. because u socialize the dog and take it into the general public doesn't mean the dog will stop being protective of ur yard. My dog bruno that is half apbt half boxer is a great guard dog, but i can also trust him around anyone during the daytime, he especially loves kids. Once night time comes around and he goes back on his chain he knows what the deal is, if someone comes on my driveway he explodes and lets the whole neighborhood that somethin is going on. Actually about 2 weeks ago my neighbor called the cops cause my dog was barking like crazy and come to find out someone tried to break into my neighbors car but my dog scared them away. If u get urself a good dog that has natural protection in his blood u won't have any problems, just treat it like a regular dog and he will do his part when the time comes.

[PitBull_30]

I'm looking to have my yard occupied by a dog of some sort. It's a really huge yard. Now please keep in mind that the dog will lack social skills and discipline. Also I will not put much time into training him or her.
Lack of socialization produces an unstable dog not a good guard. Any dog, especially one you want to use for guarding purposes, needs extensive socialization and at LEAST basic training. The dog you're describing will most likely turn out very badly. The socialization is important for two main reasons, 1 - A guard dog needs to be able to read friend from foe and he won't be able to do this without meeting tons of different people and 2 - He will be fearful of people and not confident when he needs to protect. A fear biter is the worst type of dog anyone could ever have. All your plan will do is make a dog that is aggressive toward anything. Even if it is socialized around you and your kid he/she wouldn't be trustworthy. I wouldn't let my nieces within 50 feet of a dog like that.


My reasons for this is because I don't want it to be used to so many people because it will be here to protect my yard.
Are you talking about a yard of bulldogs (God, I hope not) or a back yard? If it's the backyard do you really have something in there that is worth protecting? It sounds to me like you want a backyard ornament "Attack Dog" that you can show your friends.


To be honest I'm truly afraid of any other dog except APBTs', even the little ankle biters. I just do not trust any other dog one bit.
Then you have no business owning a guarding breed. They tend to be VERY dominant and if you are fearful, or submissive toward them your in for a lot of trouble. If the dog gets the idea that it's alpha it will control you and your family. You try to take it's food and now that you're a lower member of the pack you get corrected. Bit. Same goes for your son. If he starts pulling the dog's hair in that dog's eyes he is a rowdy puppy who needs a correction. Again this means a bite. Guarding breeds/dogs are not for novice owners and defiantly not for anyone who is not completely in control and dominant over his dogs. If you fear this dog he will more than likely take over.


From my experience APBTs' can be dangerous and explosive when not socialized or disciplined, but if I do get one then I'm hoping my 8ft high privacy fence will keep it contained.

If you want a dog like that you don't belong owning so much as a goldfish! A dog should never be so aggressive that it is a danger to anyone but an intruder. Dogs like that make headlines. Any dog especially an APBT that is that bad needs to be euth. That is NOT how a guarding dog should behave.

I've already started place chicken wire fenceing along the bottom of the fence and then I'm gonna place center blocks along the chicken wire for diggin habits.
You're going to have to do a whole lot more than that if you want an aggressive dog. A LOT more.


My question is this: Would an APBT be good at keeping people out of my yard if it's not used to people?
The mere sight of an APBT usually keeps people out. An APBT doesn't even have to be aggressive. LOL. An APBT is not a very good choice for a guard dog.


The dog will be socialized with me, my wife and our son.
That is not nearly enough!


You need to do a LOT of research before you get this dog. Try to meet some breeders and spend some time around their dogs. I've never really liked German Shepherds much as pets because they're a bit to eager to be aggressive and overprotective. No overprotective is not a good thing. A German Shepherd should be fine around family but I wouldn't trust any dog around your family that doesn't spend lots of time with them and isn't part of the family. No dog will be happy alone in the yard. They are pack animals and need to be part of a pack. Neapolitan Mastiffs are great with family especially kids but they need to be close to the family and part of a pack too. They get separation anxiety pretty easily. Some of the livestock guardians would probably do better in that type of situation but most wouldn't be very close or good with your family. Some of these breeds are the Akbash Dog, Tibetan Mastiff, Anatolian Shepherd Dog, Sarplaninac (They tend to be especialy dominant though), Bernese Mountain Dog, Kuvasz, Estrela Mountain Dog, Caucasian Ovcharka, Greater Swiss Mountain Dog, Central Asian Shepherd Dog, Great Pyrenees, Kangal, and the Tosa. Some of these breeds requite a fair amount of grooming and the longer haired ones won't do well in hot weather.

[PIt4life]

I would use a Kangal and not an APBT, the Kangal is a 150pound anything stopper. ANd isnt as good at escapeing like the pit bull, they are also mostly one person dogs

[MR BIGGS]

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[BoiBoi]

THE DOG WILL BE SOCIALIZED WITH ME AND MY FAMILY ONLY AND WHEN I SAY I'M SCARED THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT I'M GONNA BE SUBMISSIVE. THAT MEANS THAT I BELIEVE THOSE DOGS TO SNAP AT ANYTIME BECAUSE I'VE PERSONALLY SEEN IT HAPPEN WITH SOMEONE WHO RAISED A ROTTY THAT WAS SOCIALIZED WITH HIM AND HIS FAMILY, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT CASE. HE SAID HE JUST WENT OUT TO FEED IT LIKE REGULARLY AND THE DOG JUST BIT HIM ON THE HEAD. PLEASE READ THE POST AND MAKE RESPONSES ACCORDING TO WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED.
I'm tellin u man thats a bad idea, the dog needs to be around people while its young so it can learn the difference between good people and bad people. The last thing u want is a dog that doesn't know what its doing. My dog is highly socialized but is still a great guard for my property, he goes crazy if someone comes on my driveway and doesn't stop barking until i tell him to calm down

[B]

I'm looking to have my yard occupied by a dog of some sort. It's a really huge yard. Now please keep in mind that the dog will lack social skills and discipline. Also I will not put much time into training him or her. My reasons for this is because I don't want it to be used to so many people because it will be here to protect my yard. To be honest I'm truly afraid of any other dog except APBTs', even the little ankle biters. I just do not trust any other dog one bit. From my experience APBTs' can be dangerous and explosive when not socialized or disciplined, but if I do get one then I'm hoping my 8ft high privacy fence will keep it contained. I've already started place chicken wire fenceing along the bottom of the fence and then I'm gonna place center blocks along the chicken wire for diggin habits.

My question is this: Would an APBT be good at keeping people out of my yard if it's not used to people. I would think so, but I've only had house dogs that I've trained to the T.



Edit: The dog will be socialized with me, my wife and our son.Worst idea ever. It sounds like you want a liability on your hands? Any dog in this sort of role needs to have completed protection training. That being said I think you should seriously reconsider this approach. I am not convinced that you would be capable of handling an animal like this especially with the obvious lack of experience in the area. If you really are after this then you should spend the next year +/- working with someone in your area that trains dogs for protection and bite work before you even consider something along these lines. APBT are not suited for this type of work. You sound like you're after a junk yard dog :rolleyes:

B

[MR BIGGS]

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[Pitbull219]

You sound like you're after a junk yard dog :rolleyes:

BLMAO @ junk yard dog!!:D

[MR BIGGS]

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[Pitbull219]

Found the perfect dog to suit your needs, here ya go.... http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/corgidor.htm

[PitBull_30]

THE DOG WILL BE SOCIALIZED WITH ME AND MY FAMILY ONLY AND WHEN I SAY I'M SCARED THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT I'M GONNA BE SUBMISSIVE. THAT MEANS THAT I BELIEVE THOSE DOGS TO SNAP AT ANYTIME BECAUSE I'VE PERSONALLY SEEN IT HAPPEN WITH SOMEONE WHO RAISED A ROTTY THAT WAS SOCIALIZED WITH HIM AND HIS FAMILY, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT CASE. HE SAID HE JUST WENT OUT TO FEED IT LIKE REGULARLY AND THE DOG JUST BIT HIM ON THE HEAD.

PITBULL 30:
PLEASE READ THE POST AND MAKE RESPONSES ACCORDING TO WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED.
Um, I did. This story about the Rott proves what I said. If he was truly dominant over that dog that Rott would have backed away from that bowl and not so much as looked in that direction until your friend said it was OK or left.

[14rock]

What your attempting to do is exploit fearful aggression. Terrible, terrible idea. What happens when that Rott you keep stashed in the back yard, bites your childs friend. You didnt socialize it with anyone outside your family, so this is the same as biting an intruder as far as the dog is concerned. You create highly unstable, unhappy dogs doing this, the correct way to do it would to not be lazy/cheap and buy a proven, titled, gaurd dog, and work closely with it, and the breeder. A dog that can distinguish between a serious threat, will be there when its needed, be more effective, and be stable/safe around everyone.

Besides, most anyone confident in themselves, and with enough experience, can recognize a fear-biter who is bluffing, hop the fence, scare the dog into staying a few feet away, and walk around undisturbed save for some barking. A dog that will do the job properly, is very similar to a APBT who does its job. They arent the ones snarling, raising hackles, and looking like a tazmanian devil from 5 feet away. They are sure, confident, and decissive, most importantly however, they are not afraid. Its very similar, our dogs have been bred for one thing, and that is what makes them diffrente from other breeds. Dogs like the Malinois, GSD, and well-bred Rottweilers and Dobes, have been bred for one thing as well...they do it best, just as our dogs do their thing best. Malinois arent gamedogs, APBT's arent property protection dogs.

[MR BIGGS]

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[Attila]

I use Shar-pei. They do well when I have small children here to visit. And any stranger is not going to be messing around. My pit bulls get to barking and carrying on when stragers are here too. But it is the Shar-Pei that run them off. Or my shot gun. The best guard dog I ever had was a mutt. 1/2 mastiff 1/4 German Shepherd 1/4 wolf. However he didn't like any one but me period. Anything or person else was dead meat. He never once growed or harmed a kid. But if you raised your voice to a child you were in deap shit. He would not tollerate that. He wouldn't even let my dogs near the farm animals. My Pit Bulls wouldn't even dare mess with him. I had Rocky 16 years just 3 months shy of 17. He passed last year September 3rd. Broke my heart. Loved that old dog. One thing was for sure no one came into the yard and if a child was here no one raised a hand to that child more than the first time. He tore my brother up once for that crap. Litterally tore him up. I warned him not to hit his kids around me or the dog. But he is an asshole and did it any way. He has not been here again. His wife brings the boys over to visit but the brother isn't allowed here. Nor our mother. Not only the dog didn't go for that shit but I do not either. Spanking is one thing but hitting out of anger or up side the head pisses me off to no end. I don't have any kids. I would like some but I was never blessed with any. I suppose they mean more to me because of that. I would never abuse a kid. I am off topic now. Back on track. I loved him as a guard dog but my Shar-pei do well. Shot gun does best. And my friend you have to get over that fear of dogs. They are very attuned to that. They will not hurt you. If your the owner they will love you. Love your family too. It's other peoples dogs that you need to keep a watchful yet not fearful eye on. They will prey on your fear. It is only natural.
Hope that helps. Dogs that don't mind being pulled on by kids are few but the Shar-pei don't seem to mind, Pit Bulls sure don't mind and My cousin has a Neopolitan Mastiff that guards over his kids like they were her own pups. lol. She is very intimidating to strangers. And would probably tear a stranger up for messing around. Sure would over the kids. A pit bull will watch over children. They are smart enough to know friend from foe. However friendly enough to be stolen. I don't like herd dogs as guard dogs. Mastiffs are great for it though. Every dog must be socialized with the family. Just keep it unassociated with outsiders.

[MR BIGGS]

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[jdbpitbull]

I say socialize the dog with others for the dogs sake because just with the dog being an apbt people will be leary just to enter because of the bad rap that is already on them so dont do make another pit be another reason for others to believe that they are such mean and horrible dogs

[14rock]

I'm not trying to exploit fearful aggression. Would my family really be in danger if the dog was only socialized with us?
By not socializing the dog with anyone else, that is exactly what your doing...exploiting its natural fear of strangers! Your family might not be in danger, but as I said before, what happens to your kid's friend who wants to see the puppy dog? Kids will be kids, you can tell them something a hundred times, but they will still do what they want to if they can get away with it, and in this case, it wont be your kid with the problems.
That sounds like I will never be able to trust the dog regardless of who it knows because we will be the ones who it lives with and gets fed by. We wil be the ones who lets it sleep in bed with us on occassion. So the way I'm hearing it is either way the dog can't be trusted unless you're just leaving out the part about me socializing with only my family so therefore it will know my family and the love of them. If other people come over then yes I will have the kennel ready for him to go in.You MAY be able to trust the animal around your family, to an extent, but let me explain this a bit better. You can't trust it will be worth a shit as a guard dog, most fearful dogs are more content tucking tail and growling, staying out of distance...barking to alert its pack leader to come save its ass. Your going to have a dog that is not only a stressed out, fearful dog, with an unhappy life, but your going to have to worry about jimmy down the road when "Max" hops that fence. Or worry about your neighbors complaining, because the mailman, or metermen wont come to your house, or around it, because of the monster in the backyard. How are you going to take this unstable, unsocialized dog to the vet for up-keep? Rabies, puppy shots when young, then stick in the backyard until it gets old and ill, then shoot it because you cant risk taking it to the vet for a diagnosis or preventative maintenance? Listen, you are taking the lazy mans way out, and seem oblivious to the consequences that are highly probable. The RIGHT way to get a gaurd dog for your yard, that is stable with your family, and will still do its job is....get an animal who has been bred to gaurd the yard, be stable with the family,and do its job!

I cant stress enough this is a terrible idea.

Danger to everyone but your family, which is what, 5 people?

Unhappy, unstable dog.

Probably wont be worth a shit as a gaurd dog anyways!


Theres too many risks, and negatives. You can have BETTER dog, get rid of most of those negatives all together, and actually have a good family dog, not just a mutt you seclude in the backyard to look tough and bark.

[MR BIGGS]

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[MR BIGGS]

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[pennsooner]

Having read everything and considered it carefully I'd have to say, NO ONE is mis-reading your post. You want to do something that is wrong, both morally and practicaly.

What you SHOULD do is get in contact with a good PP trainer and work with them and then, based on what you learn choose a dog from there.

What you've said you want to do is to willfully misraise a dog by isolating it in the hope it will turn "mean".

This is a lot like the stories the HSUS puts out about "training" dogs to fight. REAL DEAL protection dogs should be, accepting and trusting as pups and as they get older, EVEN IF PROPERLY SOCIALIZED will become more suspicous and aloof with strangers. And that attitude is bred into the dogs, training is a way of honing their instincts and giving YOU more control.

Having read what you've said it sounds like you want to as someone else said "create a junk yard dog". Creating a "junk yard dog" is the wrong way to go about getting a real protection dog. The dog you end up with if you do it YOUR way will be highly unstable and a danger to you, and your family.

[Pitbull219]

ONCE again the dog will be well socialized with my family and when someone else comes over he will be locked up in a kennel placed inside of another kennel, so he won't be able to get to anybody. As far as my sons friends, it will be awhile because my son isn't even 1yr old yet and as far as anyone else that I know they are cautious of any dog and like I said he will put away. Why is that so hard to understand? I have a few thousand dollar toys I keep in my backyard so all the smart ass comments about yard ornaments and such are assumptions. If no-one has anything positive to say then I'll get busy deleting the original post as well as my other post in this thread.

In order for us to understand each-other please quit mis-reading my post. The dog will be contained safely and securely when he has to be and other than that he will be either inside with us or outside at night. I am pretty damn good with dogs and my female is a perfect example of my training skills, so I know how to handle dogs, regardless of what any of you say, but I thought someone here would have better advice for someone planning to get a guard breed. I know I have to find a reputable breeder that's the obvious.I'm sorry, but I think you may be the one mis-reading what has been said here. You want a guard/protection breed. Fair enough. You want to isolate this animal from all human contact except for your immediate family. What we're trying to tell you is that is not the way to go about it. It will lead to an unhappy, unsound dog that won't know the difference between friend and foe. All other people can be percieved as a threat to a dog like that. Protection training isn't isolation. You have been given some really good advice in this thread. Just swallow your pride and take what has been said into consideration. There's nothing wrong with saying, "hey, I see where you guys are coming from, maybe what I'm thinking isn't the best way to go about it". That's all man. No hard feelings, no reason to be so defensive. Nobody wants to see any dog unhappy, and we surely don't want to see anyone get hurt by a dog, or anyone land themselves in a nasty law suit because of what their dog did.

[MR BIGGS]

I think Attila is the only one who made a response that is reality based. A dog with love and constant attention from it's owner will less likely attack its' owner even if it's anti-social to outsiders. It doesn't take a book or research to know that.

[TEXAS PIT DOGS]

bigs now i am gonna tell you honest,for your needs you dont need any special breed a good mongrel of the proper size will do as good as any.go scan your local paper and get ya a nice pup thats healthy looking,that will do as good of a job as any.now i understand what your trying to do and i understand it will only be used to your family,but trust me this isnt the way you want to go about it all you will end up doing is ruining a good dog.i have 2 dobermans that i use as guard dogs they are excellent,but they are also socialiazed.i wouldnt own a dog that aint used to people,see ya dont want a dog that will just attack anybody,you want a dog that will alert you that someone is there and if that person keeps pressing the luck before you get out there bite him and hold him at bay till you do.you want a dog that when you say thats fine he will let that person come through and walk around.my dogs are very friendly when i am around,but if i am not there or dont tell them it's ok they will keep that person at bay.and thats what you want my friend not a dog that will attack anything that moves,trust me them dogs are no fun to own,i had one when i had my construction buisness and i did the same thing you did only got it used to me at my house and buisness.then at closing time i would leave him outback with my equipment to watch it,i had to end up getting rid of the dog it got uncontrolable even for me.so what i would recomend is getting a nice mongrel with guard breeds in it that will be about 50 or 60 pounds with short hair or medium lenth hair,get it used to your family and all kinds of friendly people and trust me he will do his job at night when your asleep and when your away.but you honestly dont want a dog that doesnt know people or know how to act around them been there done that and they are no fun to have trust me on this.

[MR BIGGS]

http://www.webdogdesigns.com/kks_kennel/responsibilities.html

It clearly says here to get the dog familiar with those whom you want it to trust and allow in its presence, so all those post about let everyone know your dog just went right down the drain.

[BoiBoi]

yo why in the hell did u ask us for our opinions on the matter if u already made up ur mind. The hell with it just do what ur gonna do and hope for the best, hopefully u won't end up on the front page of some paper. I don't get u man u asked for opinions and u got them from people that have experience with guard dogs, but u said nah fu*k it im gonna do what i want anyway, unbelievable.

[TEXAS PIT DOGS]

http://www.webdogdesigns.com/kks_kennel/responsibilities.html

It clearly says here to get the dog familiar with those whom you want it to trust and allow in its presence, so all those post about let everyone know your dog just went right down the drain.but it also says this as well.

Always be aware that a Rottie, if uncontrolled and not carefully trained, can be a danger.

Obedience training along with socialization, therefore, is a must from puppyhood. The dog's protective instincts must be properly channeled to make him steady and reliable and completely, instantly controlled by your voice. From the age of just a few months, get him to know the commands "come", "down", "stay", "heel", and "sit". Make a game of doing so, with lots of petting and praise when the order is correctly followed and you will be surprised how quickly your extremely intelligent baby Rottie will get the idea. Rottweilers are smart and they love to please - therefore they are generally quite easily trained.

Our modern Rottweilers take their own and their master's possessions with deep seriousness. Careful handling of this instinct is essential if problems are to be avoided. This is where socialization takes on special importance. For while you may want your Rottweiler to protect you, your home and your property, at the same time you want him to realize that certain people (friends, family members, letter carriers, etc.) also have legitimate business there and should be able to come and go unmolested. So take the trouble to "introduce" your Rottie to these people. Let your Rottie see that you consider them friends and approve of their presence and he will react accordingly, being at least more tolerant of their presence.

[Pitbull219]

http://www.webdogdesigns.com/kks_kennel/responsibilities.html

It clearly says here to get the dog familiar with those whom you want it to trust and allow in its presence, so all those post about let everyone know your dog just went right down the drain.this is from that link you posted: Our modern Rottweilers take their own and their master's possessions with deep seriousness. Careful handling of this instinct is essential if problems are to be avoided. This is where socialization takes on special importance. For while you may want your Rottweiler to protect you, your home and your property, at the same time you want him to realize that certain people (friends, family members, letter carriers, etc.) also have legitimate business there and should be able to come and go unmolested. So take the trouble to "introduce" your Rottie to these people. Let your Rottie see that you consider them friends and approve of their presence and he will react accordingly, being at least more tolerant of their presence.


Hello, McFly....anyone there???

[Pitbull219]

lmao!! Tex, were we just on the same wavelength there or what???

[TEXAS PIT DOGS]

just take my word on it biggs,you want a stable dog,and that requires getting them used to people.isolating your dog is right up there with beating a dog to make it mean in my opinion.i have been there and done that with the isolation thing it dont work right.i had to end up getting rid of my guard dog,if your gonna do something son do it right you will be happier in the long run.but what it all boils down to is what you decide some folks dont take advice to well and have to learn by mistakes and there aint no harm in that,i just hope you listen tothe advice given to you.there are some things a man has to learn on his own,a man cant be pushed and checked through out his life and be expected to learn a whole lot sure he can learn some but not everything.sometimes you have to find it out on your own.so either way Biggs i wish ya the best of luck with your new watch dog.

P.S-havent found anything yet about what your looking for,but i aint went through all my lists yet.

[B]

Obviously you had your mind set before you started this thread because you're discarding lots of proper advice and information that people are sharing for you. With that being said, this thread is closed. Obviously you hear what you want to hear and are going to do what you want to do.

B